Dr. Martin Rundkvist is a Swedish archaeologist, journal editor, public speaker, skeptic, atheist, lefty liberal, bookworm, and father of two.
Scandinavians are unusually cool about nudity in certain well-defined situations. The Finnish sauna is a well-known example. Within Swedish families, nudity is also commonplace, while many other nations feel that allowing your kids to see you starkers is tantamount to sexual molestation. (Which is a hot topic here at Scienceblogs at the moment.)
My wife and I once had dinner with a young couple down the street, where the man was a Chilean. His parents also had an apartment on the same street. He told us, chuckling, that his ma & pa could never draw the blinds in their kitchen, because every time they did there were naked people in the kitchen window across the street. This kind of rang a bell with me, and sure enough, that kitchen window belonged to the Rundkvist family.
Poor harassed Catholics! Similarly, I felt a little bad for my excellent Turkmen Muslim neighbour recently when he came to pick up his daughter at our place and the door was opened by my three-year old in her birthday suit (she had just had a bath).
Funnily, nudist beaches are rare in Sweden, and nobody gets naked at a public beach. Topless tanning is also regrettably pretty much out after its glory days in the 80s. Be nude, but learn the proper context.
Another peculiarity of us Scandinavians is that we have a strong feminist ethos and uncommonly de-specialised gender roles. This means that Scandy men are involved to an unusual degree in the care of their children. Combine this with our attitude to nudity, and try to imagine the consequences in, say, the changing rooms of a public bath.
I took my eight-year-old to swimming practice Monday night. As usual, the changing rooms were full of nude men and toddlers of both sexes. I really had to admire this one guy, a fiftyish Chinese recent arrival, who was there with his two daughters. I imagine it takes some cultural flexibility in a man like that to accept that a) he's taking the girls to swimming practice, b) they all change in the men's changing room.
Well, what about child molestation? I believe the frequency of such crimes is about the same in Sweden as in other Western countries, though the rate of discovery and police involvement is most likely way higher due to high awareness. The current issue of kids' magazine Kamratposten, of which my son is a subscriber, has a piece on molestation with matter-of-fact advice about what a kid's to do if they or someone they know becomes a target.
And those nude men in the changing room? Most of them were dads. If someone had approached a kid in a slimy way or taken out a camera, he would have been pinned in a corner before he could say "NAMBLA" and fifteen suburban cellphone users would have called the police on the spot. Getting nekkid is no big deal to a Swedish dad, but the well-being and integrity of kids sure is.
[More blog entries about nudity, children, Scandinavia; nakenhet, barn.]
Comments
I've found that North Americans are terribly uptight when it comes to nudity. Letting your toddler run around the yard without any clothes on is frowned upon in most neighbourhoods. And god forbid you get naked in front of your own children! I think we have a lot to learn from Scandinavians, and from many other countries in Europe. Why we consider it so shameful is beyond me (although I will admit, I'm not too comfy exposing my bits to the world...) Lots to think about. Good post as usual Martin!
Posted by: Karen | March 14, 2007 10:31 AM
Many thanks! A funny thing is that it would probably be more acceptable in the US for mothers to bring their little boys into the ladies' changing room. I guess the sight of a naked man is much scarier.
Posted by: Martin R | March 14, 2007 10:36 AM
My kids somehow soaked up their attitudes about nudity from our US culture rather than from their family upbringing. We raised them in a household with a lot of nudity. But by the time both were a few years shy of puberty, they chose not to go naked and asked that my wife and I avoid nudity as well. The last time I was downstairs naked in front of my daughter, she said, "Dad, it's time to put your balls away." Both are in college now. Though they are comfortable with body and sex issues, their attitudes about nudity haven't changed.
Posted by: Jon | March 14, 2007 11:17 AM
Well, yes, naked men are a bit scary... ;)
Posted by: Karen | March 14, 2007 12:55 PM
Jon, when I was four and five I lived in Connecticut with my parents and went to Kindergarten. When we moved back to Sweden I was so prudish that I wore Speedos in the bathtub when my grandma was around. But it wore off.
Karen, if you find them intimidating, you can always turn off the light or put a paper bag over their head.
Posted by: Martin R | March 14, 2007 12:59 PM
You've reminded me of another aspect of our prudishness: gym culture. From childhood through young adulthood, I never thought twice about walking around a locker room naked. We all did it. Now it seems that it's just me and the other old farts (I'm in my 50's) who let it hang out. The younger guys are always covered up. This is as true in YMCAs as it is in fancy health clubs.
Posted by: Jon | March 14, 2007 1:11 PM
That's funny, because people born in the 80s are supposed to be indiscriminately promiscuous, right? And still they won't flaunt their bits? Maybe their sexual culture is so volatile that if one of them flashed his salami the other ones would descend into a complete atavistic bonobo clusterfrock right then and there.
Posted by: Martin R | March 14, 2007 1:17 PM
When I started taking our preschool-age daughter to swimming lessons this past summer, we went to an indoor pool. At the entrance to the changing rooms was a big sign: "All children 8 years and under MUST USE THE FAMILY ROOMS". The "family rooms" are individual toilet/shower/dressing rooms, as opposed to the group locker rooms. When I asked one of the desk clerks, she said it was for the sensibilities of the older patrons. Not the kids, their grandmas and grandpas. Many's the day we waited for almost half an hour for an available family room.
Nudity's not been a big deal in our house. We put clothes on when we have company or when it's winter (poor insulation in the house). Oh, yes, and when we're outside, as the houses are *very* close together. Other than that...
Posted by: spyderkl | March 14, 2007 2:22 PM
I wonder what those oldie sensibilites are about more specifically.
1. I hate for little kids to see me naked.
2. I hate to see little kids naked.
3. Nobody should be seen naked.
4. Naked naked NAKED NAKED
Posted by: Martin R | March 14, 2007 2:41 PM
Yeah, naked, man...
Posted by: Henrik | March 14, 2007 7:36 PM
Actually, nakedness is also quite common in Japanese, Korean and Chinese societies. All these countries have bathhouses and hot spring where everyone is naked (male/females separated).
I've heard from my Japanese friend that traditionally they also have mixed bath where everyone is naked, but because of cultural influences from Westerners (I guess not Scandies) mostly portuguese and American, these became almost extinct. However, even now in Japan, families would bath together.
In China, way before the revolution, other than female brothels they also have male brothels. This tells us that the sexual attitudes of Chinese has been very much relax until either confusionism and Westernisation came in.
So don't be too surprised by "conservative" asians attitudes towards sex and nudity.
Posted by: Kelvin Wong | March 14, 2007 10:14 PM
Kelvin, then maybe my Chinese wife isn't so unusual. I thought she had just become Scandinised.
Posted by: Martin R | March 15, 2007 4:02 AM
Weeelll, it's not always that relaxed in Scandinavia either. I was (admittedly a few years ago) reading a Finnish weekly with an "Ask the solicitor" column. In this particular issue the question was "What legal action can I take against my neighbours on the other side of the lake who bathe naked?" The somewhat exasperated reply was that the asker just would have to learn to live with it.
Posted by: kai | March 16, 2007 3:54 AM
It was probably just a typo. What they meant was "What sexual action can I take against my neighbours on the other side of the lake who bathe naked?".
Posted by: Martin R | March 16, 2007 4:06 AM
The correct (if not strictly legal) reply is, of course, "burn down their sauna".
Bob
Posted by: Bob O'H | March 16, 2007 10:31 AM
Is that a common mating behaviour in Finland!?
Posted by: Martin R | March 16, 2007 10:40 AM
Americans are very immature about the human body, but the
one big exception to this was our required nude swimming in boys' physical education classes in high school.
I was scared and cold at first, but the nude swimming actually became fun and relaxing after a while.
In Chicago, boys at Roman Catholic high schools swam nude; in many state schools, boys swam nude while girls wore racing type one-piece suits. YMCA nude swimming ended in 1970. Boys were allowed to wear bikini racer suits or swim jocks, but only 1 or 2 did. Nudity was wonderful for stress
relief and mental balance.
Posted by: frank benson | July 19, 2009 11:40 AM
The coolest parent-child interaction I saw while visiting Stockholm last spring had nothing to do with nudity, but everything to do with a parent-facilitated sense of adventure that one rarely sees in the U.S. We were walking by a square in Södermalm that had a small skateboard park -- and watched a little boy of around 7 or 8 being taught some cool skateboard tricks by his mom. He was wearing the usual protective gear, his mom seemed to be encouraging him to try new things, and the scene was one of utter calm.
As someone who grew up incredibly overprotected, I was really touched. Wish my mom and dad had done that kind of stuff with me!
Posted by: Julie Stahlhut | September 18, 2009 11:38 AM