I try to avoid linking to UD whenever possible, yet today we have some surprisingly stupid and hypocritical comments from Dembski on the recent article on Open Access in Nature. The article in Nature discusses the relationship between some of the big science journal publisher and Eric Dezenhall. It also mentions the possibility that these publishers maybe making use of the services Competitive Enterprise Institute to help them combat Open Access. It is, of course, all about money. The big publishers argue that Open Access threatens their livelihood. Open Access advocates argue that since most of this research is funded through taxpayer efforts the results of that access should be freely available to the public. A group of anthropologists, for example, is working hard to force the American Association of Anthropologists to adopt an open access model. You can read about their efforts at Open Access Anthropology
So what does Dembski make of all this? In a recent post over at UD Dembski says:
The big publishers of scientific journals are, not surprisingly, concerned about how open access to information on the internet is cutting into their profits. Apparently they are now hiring PR people to try to keep their market share, and the PR people are counseling that the very concept of open access needs to be undermined. With regard to our issues, who do you think stands to benefit more from such an anti-open-access campaign, the Darwinists whose propaganda engines are entrenched in the big publishing houses, or the ID proponents who are systematically excluded?
There are a number of things wrong with this statement. First, Dembski is complaining about the tactics used by the "big publishers" yet the Discovery Institute has hired the same group that brought you the Swift Boat smear campaign against Kerry. Over at UD, Dembski has made use of the same tactics against, say, Pianca and others (remember the Street Theater fiasco Bill?). To bemoan the use of Dezenhall and the CEI, while enganging in those same tactics yourself is the height of hypocrisy.
Second, Dembski somehow conflates the big publishers efforts to combat open access with some evil darwinian orthodoxy entrenched in power and out to keep the results of their research hidden from the public. Partially this is a conflation the producers of the journals with the folks who actually writes the content. Bill seems to think that because the big publishers want to squash open access, the scientists who actually write the articles that appear (and in a lot of cases work as editors) in those journals are against it as well. This is a questionable assumption at best. What about the contention that the evil "Darwinists" are out to squelch open access? I do not have any scientific data on the question. I do have some anecdotal evidence, most of the evolutionists I know of are for open access. We feel it is in our best interests to have the results of research into evolution freely available to the public. Speaking entirely for myself, I feel that open access to the scientific literature is the best way to prevent the public from being hoodwinked by flatulent street theater performing theologians.
Finally, Bill seems to think that open access will somehow help ID get published in peer reviewed journals:
...who do you think stands to benefit more from such an anti-open-access campaign, the Darwinists whose propaganda engines are entrenched in the big publishing houses, or the ID proponents who are systematically excluded [emphasis mine - afarensis]?
A little later he says:
I imagine that "ID pseudoscience" will be exhibit A in why open access needs to be limited.
Um, Bill, until such time as ID proponents actually do some experiments they will be excluded from the journals. Open Access won't help.
Added Later: Kambiz over at Anthropology.net gives his take on open access and paleoanthropology. As Kambiz points out:
Many of the publications that clearly document the process that conclusions are made in the paleoanthropological field, are closed access. Try Nature and Science, they have been both publishing a lot about Homo neanderthalensis sequence analysis, a topic that can change the way we consider species concepts and our understanding of human evolution, but the information is behind a locked digital door.
He also points out that some of the top journals in the field (AJPA, American Journal of Primatology, Journal of Archaeological Science, Journal of Anthropological Archaeology, Journal of Human Evolution, Current Anthropology, Evolutionary Anthropology, American Antiquity) are behind closed doors. Part of the results of this locking of scientific information is a widespread misperception about how the science of anthropology works and what anthropology does. Granted, open access will not immediately correct all the misconceptions and "Indiana Jones" stereotypes it will help.
Kambiz also links to this great post the "Year of Open Access Anthropology".
Bill in case you have forgotten, or don't know, anthropology is an evolution based science, yet a lot of us are advocating open access. Why is that Bill?
Added Even Later: In comments to the thread linked to above Michaels7 asks:
Anyone know of online sources similar to NCBI for Fossils?
If you will look to the left under the category "Anthropology General and Technical Resources" you will find a long list of resources, including links to several sites that have pictures of hominids (one even has 3-D scans). Then go past the links the the webpages of 69 anthropologists with free down loadable papers to the section labeled "Paleontology and Geology". There you will find links to wide variety of searchable fossil databases...
Update: Josh at Thoughts From Kansas has joined the open access discussion with an interesting contribution. Josh points out that the scientific publishing business is making money off the scientists who do the research (and are charged by the science publishers to publish their results) and the readers of those results:
Scientists give those publishers their research, typically signing over copyright for that work to the publisher. In many cases those scientists also pay page charges to those same publishers, so that those publishers can have the privilege of taking those scientists' work from them.Scientists are beginning to feel that this situation is not equitable, and that the restrictions on accessing those publications online hurt not only authors, but researchers in the field. Congress has heard those complaints, and is pushing for NIH funded research to be made available free of charge on some schedule.
Go read the rest, it will be worth your time.
You can also check out Open Access News for information on open access...
Afarensis is a 3.5-2.8 million year old hominin from the Kada Hadar member of the Hadar formation in the Middle Awash, Ethiopia. He is approximately 41 inches tall, weighs approximately 60 pounds and has a cranial capacity of a whopping 410 cc (approximately). Afarensis is currently considered to be transitional between apes and humans and displays some traits of both. Since he spends a lot of time on the couch watching monster movies, some observers question whether he is an obligate biped (although no one has observed him climbing a tree). He also has a blog called




Comments
Exactly.
Nice try, Bill, but PLoS Biology won't publish your nonsense or Michael Behe's either.
Posted by: Gerard Harbison | January 26, 2007 12:38 PM
Yup, there are bunches of open access journals out there, but I doubt any of them would publish ID stuff due to the lack of scientific rigor displayed by ID proponents. His lack of knowledge on the issue of publishing may explain why PCID seems to have bought the farm...
Posted by: afarensis, FCD | January 26, 2007 1:06 PM
He is living in his own private Idaho. With apologies to both Idaho and the B-52's. Although Dembski's Bluto-like sidekick DaveScot Springer DOES look like a potato head.
Posted by: J-Dog | January 26, 2007 1:12 PM
afarensis says:
Dontcha know that anything that gets in the way of IDcreationism as far as Dembski and his ilk are concerned is called "darwinism".
Posted by: Dave S. | January 26, 2007 2:04 PM
Billy D. seems to think that open access is about what gets published, rather than who gets to read it. There is no doubt that he is both hypocritical and stupid.
Posted by: Josh | January 26, 2007 2:04 PM
As a big fan of open access, I do a bit of snooping around and try to keep abreast of what's going on. Some time ago, while looking at the Directory of Open Access Journals, I came across something more than a little disturbing:
"...one article, titled "Human Origins and Intelligent Design," by Casey Luskin. I thought that perhaps it was another example of a legitimate scientist pointing out the flaws of ID. Unfortunately, that's not the case. The article is available on the site of the International Society for Complexity, Information, and Design, which is yet another ID mouthpiece. One of its founders is none other than William Dembski."
I wrote it up on my blog, but I've got an extremely limited readership -- perhaps you folks here can make more of a dent than I did over at DOAJ: "...I shot of an email to the director of the DOAJ, Mr. Jorgensen (lotte.jorgensen@lub.lu.se), informing him (politely, of course!) that such articles, journals, and institutions are hardly the examples of scholarly research which the open access movement needs in order to establish credibility."
With Dembski et al. in full-on conspiracy theory assault mode, the last thing we need is for their stuff to undermine the utility of OA.
(My full post is at http://ravingatheists.com/ocmpoma/2006/11/04/open-access-and-id/)
Posted by: ocmpoma | January 26, 2007 2:12 PM
Scordova in the same thread:
Is any opponent around here who was challenged by him? And I indeed do mean "challenged over the data. I read as much as I could stand (which is not too much) but I never came across accession numbers or sequences. Ok, they may have mentioned "Methinks it is like a weasel" which I could not detect in SwissProt.
Posted by: sparc | January 26, 2007 2:32 PM
Aww, Sal doesn't have to match our pathetic level of detail by actually providing accession numbers or sequences. Isn't the fact that he is a man of "God" sufficient to establish that he is telling the truth (sorry if that burned out your irony meters)?
Posted by: afarensis, FCD | January 26, 2007 2:50 PM
AS a scientist who disagrees with about everything Dembski has procduced, I must lament the degree to which science blogs have descended to invective and ad hominems.
Its no defense to say "the other guy does it too". My relying on namecalling we give rise to their claim that our evidence is not so overwhelming.
It is overwhelming.
And thats all we need.
Present it clearly, and the game will soon be over.
Now, I will undoubtedly catch it for this, and thats OK, but I suspect that some of this is more about religion than science.
Posted by: Schmidt | January 26, 2007 3:17 PM
Commenting for the first time on the UD blog two weeks ago, I naively used the terms "simpletones" and "BS" in my comment. Needless to say, I do not have an open access (ala Dembski) to that blog anymore.
As to their inability to publish ID research results, I think their best shot is to ask the Chief-Editor of their most favorite journal (the Bible) to consider a new volume (Vol. III) "The Newest Testament," which will follow in the footsteps of the open access the first two volumes of the journal (The Old Testament and The new Testament) have.
Posted by: S. Rivlin | January 26, 2007 3:23 PM
I'm not sure how pointing out that Dembski does not practice what he preaches is invective or name calling. Nor do I understand how pointing out the obvious, that Dembski clearly does not understand the open access issue or is invective and namecalling. I also do not understand how pointing out that a lot of anthropologists - evolutionists all - are calling for open access which undermines Dembski's position is invective or name calling. Seems to me you are letting one comment I made overshadow the rest of the points. I should also point out that I did not say that it was okay for the big publishers to do what they are doing. I find it appalling. What I did say is that for Dembski to rant about the actions of big publishers is hypocritical given his past track record of performing the same kinds of actions he is now decrying. It may be objectionable to some to tell the truth, but, well, there it is. I also do not understand what a discussion of the practices of big publishers has to do with religion...
Posted by: afarensis, FCD | January 26, 2007 4:45 PM
Speaking of open access, the open access Intelligent Design 'journal', Progress in Complexity, Information, and Design (PCID), last published an issue in November 2005, and that issue had five articles.
http://www.iscid.org/pcid.php
Posted by: steve s | January 28, 2007 9:05 AM
Dilliam Wembski is a Bible-Banging Baptist theologian with very questionable credentials in mathematics. Dichard Rawkins is an atheist Darwinian mystic. I wouldn't give a nickel for either of them and neither would Albert Einstein if he were alive today -
"Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is the same as that of the religious fanatics, and it springs from the same source...They are creatures who can't hear the music of the spheres."
Since I have been banned from Panda's Thumb, Uncommon Descent and Dickie Dawkins' fan club. I thought just for fun I would test the water here. I am running out of blogs and forums where my heresies are allowed to appear.
It is hard to believe isn't it?
I love it so!
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison
Posted by: John A. Davison | January 28, 2007 10:38 AM
Yeah, iscid is busy, alright!
Look at all the active forums-notice the number of replies:
http://www.iscid.org/boards/ubb-forum-f-10.html
Posted by: KL | January 28, 2007 11:18 AM
I have two requirements for my commenters. One is that remain on topic and not try to derail the thread. Second, insults and such are out. The kind of behavior displayed by you here will get you banned - a lot quicker on my blog than on Mark's. I have a low tolerance for that kind of nonsense. You might also reflect on what aspects of your behavior have caused you to fall so low in the blogosphere that you have ended up here (I get somewhere in the range of 300-500 hits a day so I am small potatoes in the blogosphere). Perhaps you should learn how to blog and start a blog of your own...
Posted by: afarensis, FCD | January 28, 2007 1:24 PM
Surely you jest. John A. Davison is an expert blogger. He created Prescribed Evolution (one article, 881 comments) which "got full", so he created a new one, New Prescribed Evolution (one article, 652 comments) in which he was attacked by his enemies, so he created a third one, The End of Evolution (one article, 38 comments; I think people are finally getting tired of him). He's a blogging genius! And he's so witty — that clever trick of spoonerizing people's names never gets old, and his catchphrase — "I love it so!" — is charming.
Posted by: PZ Myers | January 28, 2007 1:45 PM
P.Z. Meyers. whom I have come to call M.P. Zeyers, greeted my first and last comment at his precious Pharynula with "Your stench has preceded you." I have no more respcet for him than I have for Dembski, Springer, Elsberry or Dawkins and all for exactly the same reasons. When summary bannishment is the only way do deal with critics, insult becomes the order of the day. You know - "When in Rome do as the Romans do" and yes indeed -
I love it so!
I sure do. So what are you going to do about it? Ban me or delete me? I'll be just crushed if you do don't you know.
It doesn't get any better than this.
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison
For fun why not respond to my signature?
Posted by: John A. Davison | January 28, 2007 6:04 PM
Those are the kind of off topic and insulting comments that will get you banned. Mark Chu-Carroll did not summarily banish you. He was far more patient than I would have been and spent quite a bit of time trying to get you to respond to the points made in the comments to his post. Instead, you responded with ever increasing mounds of invective and refused to respond to any of the points being made. A psychologist might diagnose you with a martyr's complex, me personally, I just think you have forgotten how to engage in a rational argument.
To return to the topic of this post, how about open access, ain't it great (it would certainly make my life as a blogger easier so perhaps I'm biased)...
Posted by: afarensis, FCD | January 28, 2007 6:14 PM
Here is an idea. Why not just block me from commenting. That is what Alan Fox kept doing at alanfox.blogspot.com/
He kept denying that he was doing it of course. He will never block this investigator again. I don't suffer liars and hypocrites very well.
"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison
Posted by: John A. Davison | January 28, 2007 6:18 PM
The point of this thread is "Open access" and whether or not it would be good for creationists or evolutionists. Perhaps, you could talk about that rather than all the people who have banned you. Doing so, by the way, would be engaging in a rational conversation - or at least trying to...So, what do you think? Is open access good for evolutionists? Will open access finally give folks all the info they need to see past the creationist and ID drivel?
Posted by: afarensis, FCD | January 28, 2007 6:30 PM
Off topic post deleted...afarensis
Posted by: John A. Davison | January 28, 2007 6:39 PM
JA Davison,
You were invited repeatedely to comment on the topic of the thread, yet you continue to cite your past experience on other blogs and quote cute quotes of others. Any original thought of your own? You sound like a whining child that his toys were taken away from him because he breaks them. OPEN ACCESS, that's the topic!!!
Posted by: S. Rivlin | January 29, 2007 10:21 AM
Deleted another off topic post. Let me remind the readers that the subject of this post is open access and whether evolutionists or creationists will benefit. If you have nothing to say concerning it then please refrain from commenting.
Posted by: afarensis, FCD | January 29, 2007 11:22 AM
Deleted off topic comment. John that was your last chance. The topic is open access. The problem is that you can't seem to grasp the concept sticking to the subject being discussed. Perhaps if you did you might get a better reception.
Posted by: afarensis, FCD | January 30, 2007 7:18 AM