Seed Media Group

Recent Comments

Profile

Doc Bushwell is a biochemist and a minion fugitive thrall of the dark lords of Big Pharma; Jim is a college professor with a fondness for running shoes and drumsticks; and Kevin is a freelance writer who focuses on the science of athletics performance. Read our interview with Science Blogs.

Search this blog

Subscribe via Email

Stay abreast of your favorite bloggers' latest and greatest via e-mail -- select a daily digest or instant updates and never miss a post again.


dissidents audio and athletics software
image

Stuff we hoot over



Recent Posts

Archives

« Apparently, Not Enough | Main | The things we do for drugs »

Look up "arrogant," you faith-filled gasbag!

Category: Society Gone Bananas
Posted on: February 15, 2007 7:46 PM, by Kevin Beck

I admit that on days when I'm not feeling inspired, I tend to turn this place into a metablog of Pharyngula or Dispatches from the Culture Wars. This is especially true when I start entering jibber-jabber at the end of a 100-comment string, only to realize that not only am I likely to be duplicating a number of existing comments, but am going on at sufficient length to merit a token bleat here.

PZ discussed a public talk he gave that led him to consider in detail one of the greatest hindrances to tipping creationists in the direction of at least giving the facts a fair shake, if not credence: arrogance.

Consider the word at face value. There is nothing more purely arrogant than claiming something is true while admitting that there is not only no evidence for it, but that none can even be conceived. God wouldn't be what its noisiest fans say it is if it could be detected. Even if God somehow turned out to be exactly what Christians think and that we can verify this, it would make their stance of today no less arrogant.

The rabble often confuses arrogance with something else, such as a lack of tact, a failure to be appropriately humble, or garden-variety assholism/jackholism. The word has connotations of bearing, but these are secondary, particularly in the context of philosophical matters. People perceive "arrogance" in the athlete who's talented and isn't ashamed to admit it, or in the drop-dead beauty who doesn't mask the fact that she's proud of being able to snag the man of her choice on the simple basis of her appearance. Sadly, they also smear people like PZ with the "arrogance" label for having the temerity to put to use his years of education and scholarship in exploding the stupid arguments of fundagelical Christians.

They do this primarily to score points within their own ranks -- it's always handy to be able to paint your opponent as "soulless" or "having no greater purpose" or some other horseshit that has no inherent meaning -- but they also believe it, because their belief system instructs them to mistrust facts that contradict the Bible. Within any such system, scientists would be "arrogant" by defintion, since they're making truth claims about things that contravene Bible "teachings" and generally going on at some length about it.

Folks, here's the deal. Imagine some wide-eyed, naive, timid young mother of two standing up in a room full of people an announcing (probably to thunderous cheers) that she doesn't believe in evolution because she "knows in her heart" that the Bible is true. Now picture a seedy-looking, shitfaced chimera of Richard Dawkins and Chris Hitchens taking the dais afterward and yelling in a strident voice that she's an ignorant rube, then going on to explain, in clear but vulgar language and perhaps farting as he goes, the basic facts of how modern biology and cosmology render creationism scientifically vacuous.

Is he boozy critic impolitic? Yes. Unlikely to be invited back to Glum Pecker Ridge, Mississippi? Yes. But it is the little lamb before him who is supremely arrogant.

This kind of thing is unique to religion, at least to the extent that criticism is regarded as disrespect or even intolerance and knowledge is not only given no weight but treated as bona fide liability. People in other realms have no problem with others rooting out and decrying idiocy and f*ckistry for what it is, especially when the nonsense-purveyor is trying to turn a buck.

As someone who has run marathons for 15 years, studied graduate-level physiology, "experimented" on myself and others, read as much as possible about the discipline, and treated the whole endeavor as a mixed bag of empiricism, soul-searching and childlike joy, I feel eminently more qualified to hand out advice about training to run 26.2 miles than some "coach" who has never run farther than 8 miles but recently "learned" in a dream that the secret to running well is to wear yellow knee socks, drink exactly the right shade of blue Gatorade, never run further than ten miles on Tuesdays, wear magnetic bracelets around your ankles, and be able to bench press one and a half times your own weight. If I'm not shy about saying so, few would take issue with my verbiage, yet you can guarantee that the thoroughly debunked shitslinger will himself resort immediately to the "you're-a-know-it-all" line in an effort to rally sympathy.

I've learned that the trick in such situations is to give an extreme example of why steering the discussion toward matters of rhetorical style is useless. I explain that someone wearing a Peter Gibbons-esque cheerful smile and having nothing but kind words for anyone will always be wrong if he says 2 + 2 = 5, and that if I call him a douchebag on wheels and use terms like "donkey punch" in the course of correcting him (thereby mimicking a post about the Discovery Institute's affably inane Casey Luskin by any number of irritated interlocutors), it doesn't change who is right; it just changes the input into the popularity contest. This doesn't mean it's a good idea to be an asshole on purpose when you have other means, but it does help convince on-the-fence observers that the trick employed by bunk-sprayers of linking style to content has no legitimacy.

It's often struck me that religious belief is so arrantly f*cked up that its adherents aren't content to merely be wrong; they have to get things 100 percent backward most of the time as well. In fact, the whole house of cards seems to rely on this, especially in an increasingly skeptical world.

Comments

#1

Fucking A right!

Posted by: J-Dog | February 15, 2007 9:12 PM

#2

I love a good rant, very invigorating.

Posted by: Technicolour Jorn | February 15, 2007 9:49 PM

#3

J-Dog said it! Thanks for helping me clarify my thoughts on this. Arrogance comes from certainty and it is only the religous, insane or con artists that are ever totally certain about anything.

Posted by: CanuckRob | February 15, 2007 11:23 PM

#4

You take the words right out of my mouth.

While I can somewhat sympathize with the position that scientists shouldn't be impolite to their opposition in order to gain approval, I don't really think this is a long term solution.

Proposing "being nice" as more effective at gaining converts than "being right" is as much a part of the problem as anything. If the potential fence-sitters are going to be swayed by things like someone's tone and passion, then frankly they have a very poor method of analyzing evidence and arriving at plausible conclusions.

The battle for right thinking isn't going to be won by being nice. It's going to be won by being right and by not suffering fools gladly. People shouldn't have to be convinced that evolution is true because the scientists who support it are oh-so quiet and non-passionate and not angry in the slightest at Creationists--the fact that this is even considered important in persuading people about the truth of evolution is a major problem, in my mind.

Posted by: Saint Gasoline | February 15, 2007 11:33 PM

#5

Hmmm...I'm not sure I'd agree the little lamb is arrogant.

Arrogance is defined as an overbearing self-worth or self-importance. If the timid young mother simply expresses in public that she believes in God and creationism, presumably in a timid fashion, without saying other viewpoints are stupid or whatever, I'd say she's more ignorant than arrogant. I wouldn't say a 6 year old insisting to his friends that the tooth fairy exists is arrogant (not the best analogy admittedly). Should the mother refuse to let her kids read alternative viewpoints, then I'd agree she's arrogant.

On a tangent note: Though I strayed from the Catholicism myself, I must say that the Sunday school (which I dreaded) teachers were very accepting to other viewpoints. I believe I told the one Sunday school teacher that transsubstantiation was "nonsense" and even proposed taking the grape juice and testing it before and after with my geeky science kit at home. They just told me I could believe what I wanted. Of course they weren't as accepting when I made the "S" in Jesus on the class poster into a dollar sign, but I digress...

Posted by: joan | February 16, 2007 7:25 AM

#6

joan- It's an attitude of superiority manifested in presumptuous claims and assumptions. Her arrogance has led her to stand up in a room full of people & announce to an expert(s) in the field, that she thinks said expert(s) is full of shit.

Like PZ said, it isn't the field experts who are arrogant, it's the creationists who KNOW they have all the answers.

I thought Kevin hit that dead on in his training/yellow sock analogy.

Posted by: mxracer652 | February 16, 2007 8:31 AM

#7

I'd note two things here.

1) You're right that being annoying doesn't make you wrong, and people are too willing to make being annoying the standard of measuring who is right.

2) That factor that people WILL do this always has to be taken into account anyway because, like it or not, that's the factors that one has to deal with. It's tactics, pure and simple.

3) Arrogance dressed up in a nice attitude and good suit is the worst because people will take that as some kind of sign of uber compitence or credibility.

4) Truth may not always be pretty. But we can make sure it endures.

I know what you mean on the expertise area myself. I've been there before.

Posted by: DragonScholar | February 16, 2007 11:30 AM

#8

A really good read that covers this subject (and lots of related material) is Tom Franks' "What's the Matter With Kansas?" It puts a bright light on the claims of arrogance, the anti-elitism, and a bunch of other pseudo-populist BS.

Posted by: Jim | February 16, 2007 4:16 PM

#9

DragonScholar:

Truth may not always be pretty. But we can make sure it endures.

Ah, but beauty is truth; truth is beauty; that is all ye know on Earth and all ye need to know. ;)

Less vapidly, truth might not coddle, it might not try to soften the blow of reality, it might not give a child the comfort of believing that his dear departed hamster will be waiting to help him cross some bridge into some supernatural realm at the moment of death; but it damned sure does a fine job of curing most diseases, providing material comforts, reducing starvation and increasing both lifespan and standard of living.

I think that's much more pretty than the mythos associated with a sky daddy.

As to the post itself: I am now in trouble. I've been maintaining a crush on Keith Olbermann for more than six months, and I fear I have begun to waver.

Posted by: Warren | February 16, 2007 4:46 PM

#10

If you can't defeat an opposing position scientifically/rationally/philosophically, then name-calling and straw men are the key to your success!

Posted by: Sean | February 16, 2007 5:11 PM

#11

Hi again, "Joan." Welcome back to our putrid repository of off-color postings and simian commenters. Don't let anyone scare you off.

I am certainly not trying to legislate "arrogant" out if the current vernacular and understand that it is often synonymous with grandiloquent rudeness. The thing is, it's worth flogging the subject because the fundies are already reveling in the inappropriate use of the term.

For example, they are often heard calling Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris "arrogant" (and worse); they mean this to connote both rudeness and misplaced confidence, and they are dead wrong on both counts. Dawkins and Harris are nothing but polite, and they do not make unwarranted claims about the world.

What the fundies don't like is that Dawkins, Harris, Brian Flemming and others do not treat faith as an off-limits subject. That is the beginning, middle, and end of the wntire fucking story. If someone on TV were droning on about how irrational it is to go swimming with a lead belt on or put trust in fortune cookies, and speaking in the exact same tone of voice and using the very same inflection Harris does, many would not even look up from their newspapers. Faith has been cut undeserved slack for ages, with lots of political muscle involved (a religion is nothing but a political aim combined with a pile of metaphysical bullshit), and it unnerves people to see this changing.

I would have a hard time classifying a little girl as "arrogant" for defending the good name of Jesus when she's too young to know better. And I wouldn't seek to belittle or mistreat some well-intentioned woman (or man) for being a victim of a far-flung, longstanding brainwashing scam. But it's arrogance that allows this crippling ignorance to propagate through generations, for arrogance is really the only defense against reason.

As for the tone of discourse, I don't think it's at all useful to soft-pedal anything. I think keeping the facts front and center is vitally important and will be the thing that catalyzes the eventual dissolution of irrational levels of religious belief, because something has to be insinuated between successive generations of idiocy in order to stanch its turdy flow.

But when it comes right down to it, there are a great many people who are not going to be reasoned out of their irrational beliefs no matter what you say or how you say it. I think this helps explain why some of us spend an inordinate amount of time beating up on the dumbest Christian bloggers out there, because even though the fundamental religious beliefs of the delightful and deft Andrew Sullivan are no more tenable than those of a Gribbit, it feels less dirty going to town on someone who is not only irrational but mean, stupid, and bigoted as well.

Look back on history and see how many times any sort of underclass was able to overcome sheer unreason by being quiet and polite. Didn't seem to work so well for blacks, gays, or women in America.

It won't be in my lifetime, but religion as it exists today is not going to survive if the species does. Even if the Roman Catholic Church refuses to actively concede any core princples before being backed against a wall -- and it never has -- the simple weight of truth will crush them just as it lay waste to flat-earthism and other facts about the cosmos that simply could not be denied any longer. Once the 3-in-1 God is out of places to hide, it'll morph into an almost adorably temperamental mythological figure like Zeus that no one sane actually believes in.

Posted by: Kevin Beck | February 16, 2007 5:34 PM

#12

Like PZ said, it isn't the field experts who are arrogant, it's the creationists who KNOW they have all the answers.

I thought Kevin hit that dead on in his training/yellow sock analogy.>>

Yes, I get it. However, no where in the above scenario does it mention the young mother knew the experts in the field were there, or that the mother was actively saying her opinion was better. No where does it mention she thinks they're "full of shit", only that "she believes in her heart.." The scenario also does not mention if the lady was simply taking her turn speaking in public, had a burst of sudden pride (i.e. in her kids, gifts from "God" or whatever), etc. I still maintain that from the way the scenario is written, I would not automatically assume the woman is "supremely arrogant". Sounds more like a case of ignorance to me.

I do agree that arrogance can be dressed up in a nice attitude...

Posted by: joan | February 16, 2007 9:45 PM

#13

In case it wasn't clear, when I wrote the original post, I aimed for a flavor of unmitigated arrogance in both its tone and its implied and explicit premises.

I did this for three reasons: 1) This comes naturally to me when writing about creationists and other religious extremists; 2) I wanted to underscore the distinction between being strident (which I am) and being incorrect (which I am not, at least here); and 3) I wanted to see how people with different -- and typically fixed -- preconceived ideas would respond.

Not surprsingly, for every regular reader of ScienceBlogs chiming in with elaborative assent, there's a voice or two complaining elsewhere of my "ironic" display of arrogance while conspicuously omitting substantive disagreement.

I agree that within the community of those who reject sectarian bullshit, a variety of valid viewpoints as to how to deal broadly with the religion problem exist, as seen here. As my own life is to date unaffected in any significant way by creationist machinations, I really don't worry about their ignorance most of the time and limit my input to this happy-go-sucky space. People like PZ (a college science professor) and Ed Brayton (a true activist and science advocate) have a different mission.

As for what the staunch creationists and voluble Christians think, I don't care that they think people like me are jerks (I'd think so too if I were them) and about the last hope any of us should have is to change the mind of a 40-year-old who's been a committed 3-in-1-style godder for 39 1/2 years.

Posted by: Kevin Beck | February 16, 2007 10:05 PM

#14
Sadly, they also smear people like PZ with the "arrogance" label for having the temerity to put to use his years of education and scholarship [sic] in exploding the stupid arguments of fundagelical Christians.

Too bad Peezee can't put "his years of education" into, you know, producing research.

Posted by: Robert O'Brien | February 17, 2007 4:20 PM

#15

I agree with joan. I find your little lamb to be ignorant much more than she is arrogant. Consider how she copies the belief of everyone she knows well.

My dictionary's first definition of "arrogant" is, "Overly convinced of one's own importance." It doesn't center on how wise one's truth claims are. It is about putting oneself above others, such as in the inability to be patient with those who through biological evolution and cultural evolution have been brought to a place where no one is going to convince them that everyone they trust is wrong, and the Bible is not true. Arrogance is about feeling entitled to something one doesn't have, such as an appreciative audience or a gracious opponent.

Arrogance is knowing that evolution is a fact, which I know, and thinking that people therefore should listen to whatever social commentaries that I might connect to that fact, which I try not to expect.

Posted by: dd | February 20, 2007 5:23 PM

#16

dd,

Those are some quality thoughts and therefore,like those of "joan" herself, probably don't belong in this string.

I know that "arrogance," however one defines it, is far more nuanced than I stressed in focusing on the definition most suited to philosophy and not ordinary social discourse. But for me to add mitigating comments to a rant like that would have defeated the purpose.

Regarding your last paragraph: Points taken, but there's something queerly poignant about "knowing" that special creation/ID is a fact, which some "know," and thinking that people therefore should listen to whatever social commentaries that they might connect to that "fact," which some seem to expect.

Posted by: Kevin Beck | February 20, 2007 5:52 PM

#17

Arrogance to me is:

Thinking that a cosmos over 13 billion years old, more full of galaxies than Campbells has beans, was created specially so human beings could live out a morality play in it.

Believing that it was created by an entity who knows where every elementary particle in it was, is, and will be; knows the relative velocity of the centers of mass of any two arbitrary subsets of those particles throughout all of time; knows every thought which every person who ever lived or will live has ever had or will ever have; and loves humans because they are just so special.

(I could go on if you want more examples ... no?)

Posted by: JimV | March 4, 2007 10:14 PM

#18
Too bad Peezee can't put "his years of education" into, you know, producing research.
Robert If you are a researcher, that comment would be rather arrogant.

If you aren't a researcher you fail to realise just how many young minds he has sent into the field to perform research or related duties. Without teachers there would be no researchers.

I figure PZ is making a great sacrifice remaining a Professor to so many.

Posted by: Gene Goldring | November 3, 2007 8:27 PM

Post a Comment

(Email is required for authentication purposes only. Comments are moderated for spam, your comment may not appear immediately. Thanks for waiting.)





Having problems commenting? (UPDATED)

Search All Blogs

Blogs in the Network

Top Five: Most German

Top Science Stories

powered by SEED - seedmagazine.com