Orac has been trying to get ID creationist neurosurgeon and recent Google-bomb victim Michael Egnor to provide "examples of medical research in which the design inference has made a difference, in which it led to or significantly contributed to new medical knowledge or a new treatment for disease."
This challenge was first issued a little over two weeks ago, and Dr. Egnor has responded at the DI blog. Color me biased, but the example he gives is piss-poor, off-target, and what have you.
Egnor gives the example of Francis Watson and James Crick's discovery of the structure of DNA double helix. He writes:
"To untangle the structure of DNA, they inferred design, not chance. They reversed-engineered [sic] DNA. They collected physical data about the structure of DNA (X-ray diffraction studies, Chargaff's rules, the physical chemistry of nucleotides, etc), and then they designed a model of the molecule to understand its structure and function."
Notice that the last two sentences of that paragraph do not follow from the first, which makes a gloriously unjustified assumption. Watson and Crick weren't interested in whether the DNA molecule achieved its structure via natural selection or as a result of highly industrious micro-muppets residing in cell membranes. The quotes from the scientific duo's letter to Nature that Egnor provides in no way support the belief that they endorsed the idea that DNA was consciously designed rather than yet another by-product of millions of years of evolution.
Egnor then helpfully offers a Wikipedia definition of "reverse engineering." That's great, but is only relevant insofar as Egnor himself pulled the term out of his own arse earlier in his post. A Wikipedia link is not exactly the peer-reviewed, substantive research Orac had asked for.
Egnor continues:
"Watson's and Crick's work of course had nothing to do with Darwinism (except perhaps their laboratory politics, which is another matter)."
This depends on your definition of "nothing," of course. Without "Darwinism," there would be no DNA. It's always possible to make the claim that a given experiment has nothing to do with "Darwinism," even in biology. But this is tantamount to saying that modern rocketry experiments have nothing to do with Newtonism. Evolution is implicit in the work of virtually all biologists; that it's possible to ignore the aeons' worth of processes feeding into an end product in favor of regarding the end product as a convenient "snapshot" or experimental substrate hardly contravenes the reality of evolution.
Egnor adds:
"This is not to say that Watson and Crick believed that DNA was designed by God. They were both atheists. Even molecular biologists who are avowed atheists use the design inference in their work."
I don't think avowed atheists noted (correctly or otherwise) to be using "design inference" in their work are using the term "design" in the same way an ID creationist does, Dr. Egnor. This is the failing of your entire post: You're using the term "design" in exactly the same symbolic way a biologist committed to "Darwinism" does.
He then mumbles some more about reverse engineering, and ends by asking Orac: "Which inference played a greater role in the discovery of the structure and function of DNA: the inference to Darwin's theory of random variation and natural selection, or the inference to design, applying the principles of reverse engineering?"
Egnor is simply not replying to the challenge Orac threw his way. Let's say biochemists discover a particular cell membrane receptor whose function is unknown but whose structure and cytoplasmic coupling mechanisms are easily discerned. It would be possible under such circumstances to "reverse-engineer" a putative physiologic ligand that binds to this receptor, and perhaps to predict what the effect of such a ligand would be. This, of course, does not mean that if, on the basis of their assumptions, biochemists eventually discover a substance in plasma that activates the receptor, the substance was created by a designer. On the other hand, if pharmacologists synthesize a substance that subserves the same function, that's design.
More broadly, the fact that we can make informed inferences about biological systems based on structural considerations doesn't mean that God is out there yanking levers to make it all look nice and neat and run smoothly. Dr. Egnor knows as much, and pretty much mailed this one in, I'm afraid.
I'm sure Orac will have more shortly.







Comments
So he is basically saying that if a scientist builds a model of a biological system he or she is studying, that is proof positive evidence that the design inference is true ?
Are we quite sure that the double bluff April fools gag is finished ?
Posted by: MartinC | April 3, 2007 3:44 PM
WTF does Egnor think "selection" means?
Does it do something useful? Does it do something that makes its own structure or that of the surrounding organism more likely to get reproduced?
So, duh, if you're trying to figure out some part of an organism it makes sense to think about what it would be good for. But talking about this as "design" and "reverse engineering" says everything about the cognitive limits of the people doing the figuring, and nothing about the existence of a designer.
(And, of course, there are plenty of structures for which "What did its ancestors look like?" is much more important that "What does it do?")
Sheesh. Is that all they've got?
Posted by: paul | April 3, 2007 4:01 PM
This could have tragic and ironic implications. Egnor's example is so mind-destroyingly stoopid that it is likely to give Orac an aneurysm. He could then end up on Egnor's operating table.
Posted by: Mustafa Mond, FCD | April 3, 2007 4:31 PM
First, I'd replace "Francis Watson and James Crick's discovery of the structure of DNA double helix" with "the discovery of the double-helical structure of DNA by Francis Crick, Rosalind Franklin, Linus Pauling, James Watson and Maurice Wilkins."
Second, as someone paid to professionally reverse engineer complicated designed structures, I disgaree with the usage herein of reverse engineering." For example, when I worked as a fairly senior engineer in the Software Engineering Department of the Space Shuttle Division of Rockwell International, there was some 40,000,000 lines of code in each Shuttle flight, somewhat different each time. Literally nobody knew how it all worked. Even when it was a matter of life or death. Even when I was taked with building and running a team to reverse engineer a mission-critical computer program whose Designers had long since retired, quit, or died.
Third, it is now evidence that one can be on the Faculty of a Medical School without understanding the first thing about molecular biology, even before Natural Selection is brought into the picture.
Sad. Sad and dangerous. And, again, not abstract Philosophy, but a matter of life or death.
Posted by: Jonathan Vos Post | April 3, 2007 5:00 PM
Adding on errors in Egnor's response I note that according to Egnor's own references, there is (obviously, really) nothing that stops us from using evolutionary methods to reverse engineer systems.
As when emulating a piece of software when the source code is unavailable. GA's can possibly be used to find solutions.
This also shows that there are examples of reverse engineering where a design assumption isn't made, it is only the behavior that is observed on a known type of system.
Posted by: Torbjörn Larsson | April 3, 2007 6:49 PM
Tomorrow morning, actually. ;-)
Posted by: Orac | April 3, 2007 10:43 PM
Not unless I show up near Stony Brook when it happens, and I have no plans to go to the area any time soon...
Posted by: Orac | April 3, 2007 10:46 PM