Tim Lambert (deltoidblog AT gmail.com) is a computer scientist at the University of New South Wales.
Pim van Meurs writes:
and since you brought up the 2 M number I assume that you are referring to Kleck's latest poll ? I assume that you realize that other measures of crime as measured by this survey seem quite inflated, 200,000 criminals injured or killed in self defense and 800,000 burglaries prevented for instance. Sounds like inflated statistics to me.
C. D. Tavares said:
Well, Pim, the fact that you personally find this data hard to accept is going to make me run right out and reconsider it from the ground up. I mean, heavens --- it doesn't even come close to agreeing with the stone tablets of NCS.
So, cdt, 200,000 criminals shot in self defence doesn't seem inflated to you? Wouldn't most of them show up somewhere for treatment? Even if they don't, wouldn't some of them die? Where do those tens of thousands of dead criminals go? As for the supposed 800,000 defences against burglaries, Kleck himself has given a (generous) upper bound of 400,000 for this number.
We have no sure way of knowing how many of these defenses would have otherwise resulted in victim fatalities or grievous bodily harm. We can estimate it, though, from other crime completion rates in the absence of a defense weapon,
And you get those rates from where? What! not that old "unreliable" NCS? You can't have that cake --- you just ate it.
and the number exceeds even the dishonest 15,000 "murders" number quoted by the original poster.
Cheek. You compare defences with deaths, get called on it, and turn around and compare deaths and injuries with deaths. Why not compare deaths with deaths? How many homicides were prevented with guns versus how many were caused with guns.
Since I'm such a nice person I'll even do it for you. And I won't even use that dreadful "unreliable" NCS. According to Kleck's latest survey, almost 400,000 homicides were prevented with guns. That's 30 times the number committed with guns. I'm surprised that you guys haven't been shouting this from the rooftops. Just think, if it weren't for guns, the homicide rate in the US would be over 150 per 100,000 population. There must be some sort of conspiracy in the liberal media to suppress this information:-)
