Deltoid

"I didn't mention any of the recent research that purports to find a deterrent effect for the death penalty because Frum didn't cite it."

What a very odd thing to say. Frum wrote: "So rare a punishment cannot qualify as a deterrent." Which you clearly agree with, since you echo his point.

Oh, any chance of a correction on that earlier post, by the way? Or at least a clarification? You know, about the UK crime survey you claim proves a decline in all crime despite not including rape, murder, crimes against kids, drug dealing, and so on?

Posted by: tim | March 6, 2006 8:26 PM

speaking of odd things to say, frum's comment itself is odd, given two paragraphs later he says:

"If societies want to wind back crime, however, they need to begin by sending a clear message that the sheriff is back in town - that crime won't be tolerated and will be punished to the full extent of the law. And nothing broadcasts that message like restoration of the most extreme punishment."

i may not be an esteemed editor of the bulletin, but that sounds to me an awful lot like saying "the death penalty is a deterrent", only not saying it in those words. it's almost as if frum knows he won't be taken seriously if he explicitly says "the death penalty is a deterrent", but wants to make the point regardless. now why would he do that?*

(*aside from his being a dishonest hack.)

Posted by: snuh | March 6, 2006 10:20 PM

The question of death penalty is like abortion, it's an ideological question and studies like that are pretty irrelevant.I'll second that.

Posted by: Ben | March 7, 2006 1:18 AM

"The question of death penalty is like abortion, it's an ideological question and studies like that are pretty irrelevant."

That depends. Yes, it's a moral issue: death penalty will still be wrong even if it's effective in reducing crime/improving the economy/getting the "right" people elected/whatever. Same with abortion, I say. But that doesn't mean studies are worthless. For instance, a recent study in Norway found that a large percentage of women having abortions felt that their boyfriend forced them. That's important both to proponents (because they'd better think of something to do about it!) and opponents (because it illustrates nicely that legality affects what people can be forced to do - the same reason slavery is illegal, and legalized prostitution is problematic).

Posted by: Harald Korneliussen | March 7, 2006 5:34 AM

The matters would be clearer if we asked the right question: "is death penalty a stronger deterrent than life imprisonment?" instead of "is death penalty a deterrent?". All punishment deterrs.

Posted by: Roman Werpachowski | March 7, 2006 4:33 PM

Z, I remember coming across that, as well. The joke is that, if a small number of executions for a small proportion of illegal killings causes signficant cahnges in overall crime rates, criminals are not exhibiting economically rational behavior.

Posted by: Barry | March 8, 2006 5:52 PM