Update: A special message to visitors from Drudge: you are being lied to. Global warming is happening and we’re causing it, but to avoid dealing with the problem folks are shooting the messenger, attacking the scientists who discovered and reported on the problem. The New Zealand Climate Science Coalition isn’t made up of climate scientists, but is just a group of global warming skeptics who gave themselves a fancy title. And they just got caught combining temperature data from different places to get rid of the inconvenient warming trend in New Zealand. If you want to know what the science really says, please read the Copenhagen Diagnosis.

The latest story exciting the denialosphere is being put about by Anthony Watts and is based on a “news alert” from the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition. (Note: New Zealand Climate Science Coalition contains no actual climate scientists.)

The New Zealand Government’s chief climate advisory unit NIWA is under fire for allegedly massaging raw climate data to show a global warming trend that wasn’t there.

The scandal breaks as fears grow worldwide that corruption of climate science is not confined to just Britain’s CRU climate research centre. …

Gareth Renowden explains how the NZCSC concocted their result — they made the NZ warming trend go away by treating measurements from different sites as if they came from the same site. Now that might be simple incompetence, but they also claim that NIWA won’t explain how they adjust the data for site changes, and as Renowden says:

Nothing in the station histories? It’s all there for anyone who can be bothered to look, or to ask politely. But Treadgold and the NZ CSC have no excuse, because the NZ CSC were told about this information at least two years ago, the last time they tried to make a fuss about “adjusted data”. In other words, Treadgold and whoever in the NZ CSC helped him with the data are being more than economical with the truth, they are lying through their teeth.

I wonder how many of the folks accusing NIWA of cooking their data will correct their posts?

Comments

  1. #1 MarkG
    December 1, 2009

    > If you are too ignorant to understand it, then I don’t see how I can do anything else for you.

    Bold claims for someone who apparently believes that “eyeballing the figure” is a mathematical proof. These suggestions of a secretly added slope in the NIWA temperatures are absolute gibberish.

  2. #2 TrueSceptic
    December 1, 2009

    Can we just be clear what graphs we are talking about? Is it these? If not, please say as I’ve seen no links posted since James Smith appeared.

  3. #3 TrueSceptic
    December 1, 2009

    682 me,

    Ignore the last bit. Links *have* been posted.

  4. #4 Tom
    December 1, 2009

    Good morning all, it is a beautiful day here, crisp and bright. Just a little house cleaning here… It seems that the game for post 666 was silly. Still tricking data I see. I know that God wanted me to have the number for Post 555, a wonderful and ironic touch. “The wing can not be called back…” Isaiah 10:14 etc., etc. wow. People please see the video clip, you can’t make this stuff up… As to the meaning of what’s, what. In Arie’s posting #350 he gives a link that has three words from the address end; “propaganda”. I don’t really know what kind of dictionary scientists use but in mine it does not read well. May the Truth of God, be know by all. Enjoy you day. Love to all, Tom

  5. #5 TrueSceptic
    December 1, 2009

    684 Tom,

    I didn’t even notice the post numbers until afterwards. Hitting 666 was pure chance, but given your religious references, I simply had to comment on it. ;)

  6. #6 Tom
    December 1, 2009

    Post #350: Arie, I was at the Sweetness & Light site looking at futerra’s propaganda piece and then went to the futerra site… The head of futerra let’s us know she sits on the board of Tomorrows Company, and is that “Al Gore”, in the picture?… I have not read further but I will say that; this just gets curiousor and curiousor.

  7. #7 wrong at large
    December 1, 2009

    at least somebody is willing to admit to recent non-AGW and cooling,,,

    Medieval Warm Period from the 900s to 1300s, and the LIttle Ice Age from the 1300s to 1800s

    ‘Global’ is a place where nobody lives
    http://news.discovery.com/earth/global-is-a-place-where-nobody-lives.html

  8. #8 wrong at large
    December 2, 2009

    Climate scientist at center of e-mail controversy to step down
    Phil Jones, director of the university’s Climatic Research Unit

  9. #9 Tom
    December 2, 2009

    SITREP 0905H, Hill 777 secure. Global warming defeated. Will be moving out at dawn+30. Viper 6 out.

  10. #10 Mark
    December 2, 2009

    Hello folks

    You may be interested to know that NIWA has published a response to the NZCSC claims on its WWW site

    http://www.niwa.co.nz/news-and-publications/news/all/nz-temperature-rise-clear

  11. #11 wrong at large
    December 2, 2009

    good thing these geniuses were not around during the Medieval Warm Period from the 900s to 1300s

    they would have thought the world was ending,,,

    A paper published in 1995 identified an upward trend of about 0.7°C from 1900 to 1993
    http://www.niwa.co.nz/news-and-publications/news/all/nz-temperature-rise-clear

  12. #12 Chris O'Neill
    December 2, 2009

    Glad our resident genius, wrong at large, knows the credible scientists to cite:

    ‘Global’ is a place where nobody lives http://news.discovery.com/earth/global-is-a-place-where-nobody-lives.html

    “Lead author of the study, paleoclimate scientist Michael Mann of Pennsylvania State University, who discusses the research in this Science podcast, sees “important implications” for future climate change. “For example,” he said, “if the tropical Pacific thermostat response suggested by our analyses of past changes applies to anthropogenic climate change, this holds profound implications for regional climate change effects such as future drought patterns.”

  13. #13 wrong at large
    December 3, 2009

    Professor Ian Plimer condemned the climate change lobby as “climate comrades” keeping the “gravy train” going.

    CLIMATE CHANGE ‘FRAUD’
    http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/143573

    well: Chris O’Neill | December 2, 2009 8:07 PM
    they see never ending AGW from 90 years of warming,,, what would these geniuses have done with 400 years of warming during the Medieval Warm Period from the 900s to 1300s

  14. #14 Chris O'Neill
    December 3, 2009

    wrong:

    Professor Ian Plimer condemned …

    Thanks wrong. We already know Plimer is off with the fairies.

  15. #15 wrong at large
    December 3, 2009

    well: Chris O’Neill | December 3, 2009 3:23 AM

    they see never ending AGW from 90 years of warming,,,

    what would these geniuses have done with 400 years of warming during the Medieval Warm Period from the 900s to 1300s???

    followed by 550 years of cooling,,,
    the LIttle Ice Age from the 1300s to 1800s

  16. #16 wrong at large
    December 3, 2009

    well: Chris O’Neill | December 3, 2009 3:23 AM

    please inform us again on how scientists feel about name calling,,,

    Sensenbrenner chastised Holdren for his 2003 e-mail, when he was at Harvard, that dealt with skeptics by “calling them names.”

  17. #17 wrong at large
    December 3, 2009

    Jones’ e-mail read, “I would like to see the climate change happen so the science could be proved right.”

    food onen jones,,, hahaha,,,

    apparently he does not consider it “settled” science,,,

  18. #18 Janet Akerman
    December 3, 2009

    Apparently WAL still thinks he can turn fantasy into reality by speculating his favourite meaning from out of context emails. WAL [all I ask for](http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/11/new_zealand_climate_science_co.php#comment-2109672) some evidence to take your speculation beyond the world of fantasy.

    And could you cite the evidence on which base your claims about the scale of the MWP? The best [evidence I am aware of](http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/recons.html) shows that the MWP was not even as high has current anomalies, let alone another 2-5 degrees C.

  19. #19 Tom
    December 3, 2009

    Dawn is almost here, getting ready to move out. People please go to: Post #350-go to futerra-then look for the new propaganda piece-New Rules of the Game-then point #8, “Useful Egg-heads”… Perhaps these might be folks like NZCSC. Scientists please let enquiring minds know the truth now that you to can see that the; thousand points of lite, don’t think much of you either. Rock on

  20. #20 Bernard J.
    December 3, 2009

    Hmmm…

    More foaming gibberish from the peanut gallery. Is it possible that he might ever construct a coherent and focussed argument?

    Still, it just goes to show the calibre of the intellect (and I use the word generously) amongst the Denialists.

  21. #21 TrueSceptic
    December 3, 2009

    Could someone please give Tom his meds. He’s delirious again. Thinks he’s on a battlefield somewhere.

  22. #22 Chris O'Neill
    December 3, 2009

    wrong:

    please inform us again on how scientists feel about name calling

    Please tell me where I called Plimer a name. Why don’t you read Jones’ interview with Plimer to see how he is suffering from dementia.

  23. #23 wrong at large
    December 4, 2009
  24. #24 wrong at large
    December 4, 2009

    scare tactics are not science,,, let the science or lack therre of stand on its own,,,

    scientists know this,,, the AGWists do not seem to,,, including gore,,,

  25. #25 Bernard J.
    December 4, 2009

    I can only say again…

    Hmmm…

    More foaming gibberish from the peanut gallery. Is it possible that he might ever construct a coherent and focussed argument?

    Still, it just goes to show the calibre of the intellect (and I use the word generously) amongst the Denialists.

  26. #26 wrong at large
    December 4, 2009

    well: Bernard J. | December 4, 2009 4:32 AM

    please inform us again on how scientists feel about name calling,,,

    Sensenbrenner chastised Holdren for his 2003 e-mail, when he was at Harvard, that dealt with skeptics by “calling them names.”

  27. #27 wrong at large
    December 4, 2009

    Parliamentary Speaker: Climate debate derailed?
    The Speaker of the Danish Parliament has issued a damning criticism of the climate debate, saying politicians gullibly turn theories into facts.
    http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article851820.ece

  28. #28 Janet Akerman
    December 4, 2009

    Bernard,

    Drudge provides the links, WAL puts them out. Its not is job to critique or think critically about the propaganda machine.
    The coordinated message comes from above.

  29. #29 Tom
    December 5, 2009

    Praise be to God… It is offical now… Janet Akerman is now a full-on-POE, we are all very joyful to have you join us. I could not have said it better myself, beloved… “The coordinated message comes from above.” Rock on.

  30. #30 Duncan
    December 5, 2009

    I’ve just trawled through every post here [numerous {selected} hyperlinks included], and had my first trollgasm.

    AWESOME.

  31. #31 guthrie
    December 5, 2009

    Yes, I was wondering when the attack on Nasa Giss would take place, I see it is already under way.
    The Washington times article contains the usual lies about CRU throwing away raw data, and that the e-mails appear to show data shaving, whereas not even the denialists on here have managed to make that claim.

  32. #32 A. Lurker
    December 5, 2009

    Tom, I really want to know, what do you think a POE is?

  33. #33 Tom
    December 5, 2009

    Father & Son & Holy Spirit===Purity of Essence; POE
    I believe that in about 1 day or 1000 years they will be reunited as the “One”.
    That is what the Holy Spirit is telling me. Love to all, Tom

  34. #34 A Lurker.
    December 5, 2009

    Thank you. That definitely clears it all up. But just to let you know, when people around here use the word ‘Poe’ they are generally referring to Poe’s law regarding religious fundamentalism, which states that a straightforward parody of a fundamentalist is indistinguishable from the real thing.

  35. #35 Tom
    December 5, 2009

    The truth be told. Janet Akerman, was kind enough to keep her promise to me and she gave us the link to understand the meaning of a “Poe”,and its slippery texture. I have had a wonderful time being able to explore these issues with so many people. I cannot forget Dave, who provided us with the humor of Dr. Strangelove(link), at Post #555. Thank you all, Tom

  36. #36 TrueSceptic
    December 5, 2009

    713 Tom,

    Hats off to you. That’s a truly great Poe. “1 day or 1000 years.” Genius.

    But how about 2012? Got something about that?

  37. #37 TrueSceptic
    December 5, 2009

    714 Lurker,

    This has been explained, and links given, in this thread. Tom is playing the Poe thing as far as he can take it.

    (If not, he’s senile.)

  38. #38 wrong at large
    December 6, 2009

    do as i say not as i do,,, right,,,

    Copenhagen climate summit: 1,200 limos, 140 private planes and caviar wedges
    Copenhagen is preparing for the climate change summit that will produce as much carbon dioxide as a town the size of Middlesbrough.

  39. #39 Janet Akerman
    December 6, 2009

    >*do as i say not as i do,,, right,,,*

    Do as the population calling for action want, put a price on carbon. Not as the short-termist want, to continue market surpression of low carbon alternatives.

  40. #40 wrong at large
    December 6, 2009

    please inform us again on how scientists feel about name calling,,,

    Professor Andrew Watson of the University of East Anglia in eastern England, “What an asshole,” Watson said.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/12/05/blogs/coopscorner/entry5905404.shtml

  41. #41 wrong at large
    December 6, 2009

    these same geniuses were saying there was an ice age before,,,

    In 1974, the National Science Board announced: “During the last 20 to 30 years, world temperature has fallen, irregularly at first but more sharply over the last decade. Judging from the record of the past interglacial ages, the present time of high temperatures should be drawing to an end…leading into the next ice age.”

  42. #42 Janet Akerman
    December 6, 2009

    >*please inform us again on how scientists feel about name calling,,,*

    Scientist views of name calling are a little differnt to most people’s view, due mainly to their thir ear, which is well adapted to picking up names.

    views of the wider public about calling someone an arsehole range from beleif that:
    * That some scientist are a better judge of charater than others?

    * Or some are more diplomatic than others?

    * Or that Global warming is a hoax?

  43. #43 Janet Akerman
    December 6, 2009

    WAL, you are perpertuating fraud, and pushing a common denialist meme put out to mislead and confuse.

    Read the quoted paragraph in full:

    >Judging from the record of the past interglacial ages, the present time of high temperatures **should be drawing to an end**, to be followed by a long period of considerably colder temperatures leading to the next glacial age some 20,000 years from now. **However, it is possible, or even likely, that human interference has already altered the environment so much that the climatic pattern of the near future will follow a different path**. (National Science Board 1972).

    (Emphasis added)

    < http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/9/27/785796/-Dispelling-Climate-Research-Myths:-The-1970s-global-cooling-consensus>

  44. #44 wrong at large
    December 7, 2009

    wronggggg,,,

    AGWists are perpertuating the fraud,,,

  45. #45 Janet Akerman
    December 7, 2009

    WAL, Thanks for your powerful rebuttle to [the evidence](http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/11/new_zealand_climate_science_co.php#comment-2128603) I presented.

    Sometimes its useful to illustrate to readers how deeply denialism can run.

  46. #46 wrong at large
    December 7, 2009

    a theory is merely a theory,,, not a fact,,, and proof of nothing,,,

    stop perpertuating theories as facts,,,

  47. #47 Janet Akerman
    December 7, 2009

    Give the specifics WAL, not some run-away empty etherial guff.

    Who perpetuate what precisely, and what evidence do you used to counter what ever your are referring to?

  48. #48 wrong at large
    December 7, 2009

    Richard S. Lindzen, Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Atmospheric Sciences, Massachusetts Institute of Technology

    Within a year of the 2007 IPCC report, scientists from modelling centres in the UK and Germany acknowledged that the failure of the models to predict the relatively static temperatures of recent years was due precisely to the models’ failure to adequately display natural variability. This hardly proves that Man made no contribution, but it certainly does invalidate the claimed attribution.
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/eureka/article6933589.ece

  49. #49 Janet Akerman
    December 7, 2009

    WAL, that tactic you keep employing is called ‘smear-and-run’.

    How about you answer [my question](http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/11/new_zealand_climate_science_co.php#comment-2128707) to support your last assertion.

    Or are satisfied just flinging poop, then running from every challenge?

  50. #50 wrong at large
    December 7, 2009

    a theory is merely a theory,,, not a fact,,, and proof of nothing,,,

    stop perpertuating theories as facts,,,

    Richard S. Lindzen, Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Atmospheric Sciences, Massachusetts Institute of Technology

    For the more dramatic associations, we could argue about what is really going on, about the cherry-picking of data etc, but that would be beside the point. The important point is that these are complex phenomena that depend on the confluence of many factors, of which global warming is generally not the most important. Consider the following scenario: Person A kicked up some dirt, leaving an indentation in the ground into which a rock fell, and B tripped on this rock and bumped into C, who was carrying a carton of eggs that dropped and broke. Would any rational person conclude that the best way to prevent this would be to prohibit kicking dirt? Yet this is precisely the “logic” that will dominate Copenhagen.

  51. #51 Janet Akerman
    December 7, 2009

    WAL,

    Are you Girma?

    What the hell did you just say?

    And why did you have Lindzen’s, name and title plonked in the middle of it?

    And how did you respond to this question?

    >*Who perpetuate what precisely, and what evidence do you used to counter what ever your are referring to?*

    Which was in response to this unsupported statement of yours:

    >>*stop perpertuating theories as facts,,,*

  52. #52 TrueSceptic
    December 7, 2009

    724 Wrong,

    Are you capable of making any claim at all that isn’t obviously false? Are you that stupid that you think it won’t be exposed? This isn’t WUWT or Marohasy, you know.

    You chose your name well.

  53. #53 TrueSceptic
    December 7, 2009

    726 Wrong,

    You don’t know what a theory is, do you?

  54. #54 Bernard J.
    December 7, 2009

    Ah, the Denialati must be so proud to have a towering intellectual giant, of wrong-writ-large’s calibre, hooting for them with such magnificently-crafted material.

    It reflects poorly on our society that such a significant proportion of the lay public is willing to follow this sort of guff without questioning it.

    And it’s one of the major reasons why I personally believe that we’ll missed the boat, if we haven’t already done so.

    Why does Stupidity win so frequently?

  55. #55 Tom
    December 7, 2009

    Because Bernie Jay, “brain dead scientists” are few… and we the unimportant and irritating mass of unwashed “free-dumb” loving people are easily able to get the drop on perps, there are just too many of us to contend with all at once. When you all receive your “cake” for your job. The enslaved around the world will alway remember you and their children. Though not in the same way. Enjoy while you can. Us and them… Next please

  56. #56 Bernard J.
    December 7, 2009

    Wow…

    “[G]et the drop on perps”, “cake”, “enslaved around the world”, “[u]s and them”? Tom, is your alfoil hat becoming just a little too constrictive? That’s the type of paranoia that lures the white-coated men with butterfly nets.

    If this is a part of your brand of Christianity, I shudder to think what your congregation is like. I’m thinking duelling banjoes and tobaccy loogies in the dust…

    Nevertheless, you provide the perfect foil for wrong-writ-large.

  57. #57 Paranormal
    December 8, 2009

    Science is full of outstanding “deniers”. Heard of a bloke by the name of Galileo?

    You so called scientists actually need to get back to science which is all about testing hypotheses. Failing to critically peer review and singing from a global song sheet is not science.

  58. #58 wrong at large
    December 8, 2009

    climate change,,,

    adapt or die,,,

    like the dinosaurs,,,

    when man can cap all volcanoes,,, then maybe you can reduce climate change,,,

    icelandic volcanoes alone have caused climate change in the recent past,,,

  59. #59 Bernard J.
    December 8, 2009

    [Wrong-writ-large](http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/11/new_zealand_climate_science_co.php#comment-2131166).

    What is your best reference that shows the relative CO2 contributions of volcanoes and of humans to the atmosphere? Or are you to afraid to substantiate your crap?

    Oo, and a warning – you will have to deal with some seriously scientifically numerate responses to anything that you might imagine exonerates humans.

    [Paranormal](http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/11/new_zealand_climate_science_co.php#comment-2131158).

    What is your evidence that climate scientists are not testing hypotheses, or that they are not using “critical” peer-review? And what is your evidence that denialists are more inclined to test hypotheses, and that they are using “critical” peer-review?

    I reckon that if you actually reply, it won’t be with any crdible evidence to support anything to do with your blather.

  60. #60 wrong at large
    December 8, 2009

    Richard S. Lindzen, Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Atmospheric Sciences, Massachusetts Institute of Technology

    For the more dramatic associations, we could argue about what is really going on, about the cherry-picking of data etc, but that would be beside the point. The important point is that these are complex phenomena that depend on the confluence of many factors, of which global warming is generally not the most important. Consider the following scenario: Person A kicked up some dirt, leaving an indentation in the ground into which a rock fell, and B tripped on this rock and bumped into C, who was carrying a carton of eggs that dropped and broke. Would any rational person conclude that the best way to prevent this would be to prohibit kicking dirt? Yet this is precisely the “logic” that will dominate Copenhagen.
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/eureka/article6933589.ece

  61. #61 wrong at large
    December 8, 2009

    good thing these geniuses were not around during the Medieval Warm Period from the 900s to 1300s

    wow,,, 400 years of runaway global warming with no end in sight,,, followed by the little ice age

    and the current clowns worry over 90 years of warming,,, rightttt,,,,

    they would have thought the world was ending,,,

    A paper published in 1995 identified an upward trend of about 0.7°C from 1900 to 1993

    http://www.niwa.co.nz/news-and-publications/news/all/nz-temperature-rise-clear

  62. #62 wrong at large
    December 8, 2009

    what??? me worried about AGW,,, damn the CO2,,, full reproduction ahead,,,

    Pregnant 18 Kids and Counting Mom Airlifted to Hospital

    The pregnant 18 Kids and Counting mom, whose 19th child is due this spring

    http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b156923_pregnant_18_kids_counting_mom_airlifted.html?utm_source=eonline&utm_medium=rssfeeds&utm_campaign=rss_topstories

    octomom agrees,,, with only 14,,,

    single mother already had six other young children at home at the time and was not financially independent.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadya_Suleman

  63. #63 Jeff Harvey
    December 8, 2009

    wrong at large:

    Your alias is wholly appropriate, especially the “wrong” part.

    I have perused some of your posts since I recently returned from a research sabbatical in Japan and, lest I be repeating the comments of others on this thread, your posts are generally vacuous. Little in the way of science; a lot in the way of rhetoric. Post # 738 had me almost in hysterics.

    As I ask many other denialists here, I also ask you: what are your scientific qualifications in criticizing the broad scientific consensus over AGW? Or are you framing your opinion, like many of the other denialists, wholly within your own political ideology?

  64. #64 Bernard J.
    December 8, 2009

    Wrong-writ-large.

    So Richard Lindzen is your authority on volcanic CO2? Exactly what paper (or other peer-reviewed work) of his is it, in particular, to which you refer?

    Come on stone – bleed.

  65. #65 wrong at large
    December 8, 2009

    please explain the AGWism of the Medieval Warm Period from the 900s to 1300s,,,

  66. #66 Michael
    December 8, 2009

    Wrong,

    Please detail the geographical extent of the MWP.

  67. #67 TrueSceptic
    December 8, 2009

    736 Bernard,

    Ironic that a fervent Christian would mention the “enslaved”.

  68. #68 TrueSceptic
    December 8, 2009

    Did you see that? Paranormal mentioned Galileo. I don’t believe it. No one’s that ignorant, are they?

  69. #69 TrueSceptic
    December 8, 2009

    746 Michael,

    And the temperature where it *did* occur.

  70. #70 Jeff Harvey
    December 8, 2009

    Note how the MWP is only brazenly asserted as a “fact” by many of the denialists. Most researchers in climate science argue that the MWP was a localized event and was relatively minor; by promulgating the myth that it was of global significance *ad nauseum* across the blogosphere (whereas it is obscure, to say the least, in the empirical literature), the denialists have created another version of their own reality.

    The same goes for their abuse of statistics in promoting the nonsensical idea that warming stopped in 1998. This is just another blog trick that does not withstand scientific scrutiny. Interestingly, the BBC have just posted an article online showing that the last decade has been the warmest on the planet by far. The graph is definitive.

  71. #71 Hugh
    December 8, 2009

    Of course there is one question that is always avoided by the denialists when they proclaim the MWP as ‘proving’ AGW is nonsense.

    If the MWP was so warm, then that would suggest that the atmosphere is more, rather than less, sensitive to ‘natural’ forcing agents. Taking this argument at face value, therefore, given the additional forcing that is being applied by the GHGs that we have subsequently pumped into the atmosphere, shouldn’t we be much more at risk from heading toward thermal ‘catastrophe’ now than if the MWP had been cooler?

    Sensitivity seems a particularly inconvenient aspect of this denialist argument to me!

  72. #72 Hugh
    December 8, 2009

    D’ohhh…unless…

    They ‘honestly’ believe that sensitivity to 2 x CO2 is 0.1*C

    That’ll be it!!

  73. #73 Tom
    December 8, 2009

    Please help us get a firm understanding of the real world AGW folks; Mr Harvey seems pretty smart. If we are going to have a New World Leader; who do you like as our model. Pol Pot was a teacher, Mao had a very small carbon footprint, Stalin got the Kulak’s to quit breathing and growing food for those stupid masses. Can’t be a Trotsky type even though the ice pick did not require much fossil fuel to move from one place to another. Hitler was a true believer, vegan too from what I see on the tube. All the poor people of Africa were given the same shot with the same needle until the scientists had given everbody AIDS. Smart people all. You do the math Bright Boy… I don’t have the “the space” to give you all the full list but then nobody does do they? Better living through chemistry my ass. Anyone for a shower? Help me Mister, please help us… If I misspelled any names I don’t really care. Say hey, Burn-Knee-Jay; see you are up early and too no good:o) Oh hey, I just saw the word sabbatical, that is hopeful… People of the World; doc, we would love to know what the going rate is for one of those things. I am not smart enough to get em’,… bummer. Just so everyone knows what my vote will be for the model we end up with is; “Uncle Ho”. I respect him even though he was educated. He loved His People. I know.

  74. #74 Jeff Harvey
    December 8, 2009

    Tom,

    Wanna repeat that drivel in plain English this time?

  75. #75 Jeff Harvey
    December 8, 2009

    Ah, I have read through some of Tom’s other posts in this thread and get the picture. None of his posts make any sense. A pattern emerges:

    He is the king of pure gibberish and gobbledegook!

    Now I get it!

    Well done, Tom.

  76. #76 dhogaza
    December 8, 2009

    He is the king of pure gibberish and gobbledegook!

    His homeschooling consisted of reading Genesis twice in the morning, twice after lunch, and once after supper.

  77. #77 Tom
    December 8, 2009

    Thick as a brick?

  78. #78 TrueSceptic
    December 8, 2009

    753 Tom,

    Time for your meds? Ask the nurse if you can’t find them.

  79. #79 Tom
    December 8, 2009

    FYI: Revelation 9:21 (sorceries)=(Strong’s;Greek,#5331:pharmakeia=pharmacy=magic=sorcery=witchcraft). If anyone disagrees with you it is always “get the med’s”. Although we got MIRV, cluster bombs, depleated U, all kinda cool agents, plus even without asking the World, you all dug up Spanish Flu for us. I could go on but my fingers would get cold. I wonder why Native Americans don’t take free blankets anymore. You folks just don’t quit. So, tell the truth now; who does not get it?…

  80. #80 wrong at large
    December 8, 2009

    not to worry,,, the political scientists are here to save you,,,

    Copenhagen climate summit in disarray after ‘Danish text’ leakDeveloping countries react furiously to leaked draft agreement that would hand more power to rich nations, sideline the UN’s negotiating role and abandon the Kyoto protocol

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/08/copenhagen-climate-summit-disarray-danish-text

  81. #81 Bernard J.
    December 9, 2009

    Say hey, Burn-Knee-Jay; see you are up early and too no good

    Tom, I understand that imbecility is an inherent component of your genotype, but I thought that it was just a rumour that an unfortunately large proportion of USAdians think that their country equates with the world…

    You seem to be hell-bent on pushing your Stupid Quotient into the red in order to validate this jaded view that the rest of the world has of your country. See, dude, this is an Australian blog, even though it’s hosted in the Yoo-Nighted Staytes – and, well, I hate to put it to you, but where I live in Australia is 16 hours ahead of the server that hosts this blog.

    Strange thing, this world. It’s much bigger than the US, and it’s round, and well, most of the time most of the world’s population has other things on its mind than what the States are doing or thinking.

    Not that time zones are really even relevant when one is a father to young babies that require regular feeding and changing. Reading Deltoid is a great way to while away the time whilst holding a feeding child.

    Trouble is, it’s easier to feed an eleven-month old than it is to feed some basic science to the intellectual neonates such as are pooping on the threads here lately. Yourself included.

  82. #82 Bernard J.
    December 9, 2009

    [Wrong-writ-large](http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/11/new_zealand_climate_science_co.php#comment-2132483).

    You’re [not the only one](http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/12/more_on_the_stolen_emails.php#comment-2134097) to misunderstand the politics of the Copenhagen ‘leak’.

    You’re also not answering [the question I put to you](http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/11/new_zealand_climate_science_co.php#comment-2131476) about volcanic versus anthropogenic CO2 emissions into the atmosphere.

    Why is it that you denialist drones cannot ever answer basic questions, or grasp the fundmentals of the science?!

  83. #83 Tom
    December 9, 2009

    God help us. As I read the news of the AGW meeting about to take place and having read the MSM spin; who is going to pay whom… The governments will decide. You fools. Have you ever been in a civil war? You are worried about a “Tipping Point” measured in years. I pray I am wrong but you are going to see one much sooner if this does not stop. You don’t have to worry about me, I am the ocean for the strong fish. You all will be soft targets. Read world history. You see it happening all around the world as I write. This is no joking matter. When this thing turns, there will be no “off switch” it will run; It’s course. Read your history again. I am not making this up. See what happened to Il Duce… not good people. Dead people put out a lot of CO2. Is that what you really want? You laugh because the people have allowed it so far. What do you Smart people think when you are all alone… You want Burundi? People are still savage. It is just below the surface, check your research papers. Where is the peoples tent; for who will pay? I don’t read about it anywhere? The people will rise it up for themselves, I think. See what you have done? Who is going to clean up your mess for you now? Thick as a brick, eh?… Old grunts like me won’t help you this time. You will be on your own. My skill sets are rusty but my important fingers still work well. I am ready. Will you all be? Lights Out.

  84. #84 Bernard J.
    December 9, 2009

    Nurse! Nurse!!

    …my important fingers still work well.

    Excellent. And as long as you have a hole in your pocket, you’re set.

  85. #85 zt
    December 9, 2009

    Err…is this all about this site:

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/06/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-92-surrounded-by-science/#more-13789

    in which case – the site move probably just put the site closer to an asphalt car park and various parked cars – so it most likely wasn’t a colder new site after the move. Comments?

  86. #86 Raging Bee
    December 9, 2009

    Good Gods, what the fuck is wrong with Tom? Just another paranoid crank with a well-worn tape-loop of libertard delusions running in his head? Or is he just here to make the other denialists look sane?

  87. #87 wrong at large
    December 10, 2009

    true scientists solve the so-called CO2 issue,,,

    A German research ship carrying 20 tons of iron sulfate is currently motoring towards the South Atlantic, and the crew plans to dump its mineral cargo into the ocean in a controversial science experiment. The researchers will be testing a technique called ocean fertilization, in which iron is dumped into nutrient-poor waters to induce a huge blooms of phytoplankton. After the photosynthesizing plankton grows and absorbs carbon dioxide, researchers hope it will die and sink down to the seafloor still bearing that greenhouse gas in a natural form of carbon sequestration. Ocean iron fertilization is considered one of the more promising options for global-scale geoengineering, which aims to slow or reverse the effects of climate change caused by man’s burning of fossil fuels. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/01/12/experiment-trying-to-create-algae-bloom-goes-ahead-despite-enviro-fears/

  88. #89 wrong at large
    December 10, 2009

    true scientists solve the so-called CO2 issue,,,

    “When algae are introduced to a rich carbon source, such as the flue gas emissions of a power plant, they propagate exponentially compared to traditional agricultural crops and do not compete for land or water that might otherwise be used for food production.”

  89. #90 Bernard J.
    December 10, 2009

    So, explain how this solves “the so-called CO2 issue”?

    And haven’t you got the hint yet about the triple commas???

  90. #91 wrong at large
    December 10, 2009

    please inform us what your solution is,,,

  91. #92 Bernard J.
    December 10, 2009

    My solution is an ellipsis, as you’ve already been advised.

    And some basic understanding of appropriate punctuation usage, even when you’ve learned what an ellipsis is.

  92. #93 wrong at large
    December 10, 2009

    ummmm i am referring to your so-called CO2 problem,,, but you knew that already,,,

  93. #94 Bernard J.
    December 10, 2009

    Mate, if you can’t grasp 3rd grade punctuation, what makes you think that you can understand tertiary physics?

  94. #95 Bernard J.
    December 10, 2009

    Oh, and don’t think that I haven’t noticed that you are avoiding answering the first question [here](http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/11/new_zealand_climate_science_co.php#comment-2136341), or the question that has lingered for many posts since first posed [here](http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/11/new_zealand_climate_science_co.php#comment-2131476).

  95. #96 wrong at large
    December 10, 2009

    good one sheila,,, that will surely solve your so-called CO2 issue,,,

  96. #97 Tom
    December 10, 2009

    Food for thought. Just to be honest; I have never seen the leading edge of a civil war, just the aftermath. My theory is very simple. 1. The people are uncertin about the value of their money, economy, culture. 2. The leaders are weak, lie, abuse the system for gain. 3. The media is not trusted by the people… This eventualy leads to rumor for news and disinformation among the people is always available wheather intended or not. It just is. Then there is some evidence of abuse that becomes known to all. Next there is some spark. An arrest. Fire. Bomb. Something. There you go. It starts. You can be an island like Cyprus, a beautiful country like Burundi, Lebonon, Sri Lanka, Viet Nam. No one ever seems to know how long they will last. I think it depends on the amount of accumulated brush so to speak. It is a movement. Not a plan. So, now look around you and ask yourself if the igniter, combustable material and fuel source are in place for a true disaster. The Chi-com’s are now also for population control world wide…along with Cap n Trade. Trading partner or no. These are huge things that will affect the whole world. Do you deney it? You all need to come clean to the people and stop the lies. Have a nice day:)

  97. #98 wrong at large
    December 10, 2009

    like i said before,,, if you truely belive in AGW,,, you would be calling for one child policy,,,

    COPENHAGEN: Population and climate change are intertwined but the population issue has remained a blind spot when countries discuss ways to mitigate climate change and slow down global warming, according to Zhao Baige, vice-minister of National Population and Family Planning Commission of China (NPFPC) .
    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-12/10/content_9151129.htm

    The real inconvenient truth
    The whole world needs to adopt China’s one-child policy
    The “inconvenient truth” overhanging the UN’s Copenhagen conference is not that the climate is warming or cooling, but that humans are overpopulating the world.
    http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=2314438

  98. #99 Raging Bee
    December 10, 2009

    WAL: draconian legal measures to FORCE birth rates down would be tyrannical, wrong, and probably counterproductive insofar as it would result in a political backlash, as it did in both China and India. So we have no good reason to advocate tyrannical measures that have little chance of doing more good than harm.

    Making VOLUNTARY contraception widely available, however, and encouraging people to use it, would be a very good thing indeed, and not just in the area of global warming either. The Republicans have done a very effective job, over the last eight years at least, of discouraging and suppressing contraception (Ellen Sauerbrey, anyone?); so any concerted attempt to reverse the damage done by their faith-based (and underhanded) suppression of reproductive choice would be welcome all over the world.

  99. #100 wrong at large
    December 11, 2009

    ummmm draconian will be what the consequences of AGW will be according to the AGWist proselytizers,,,

    and india and china will do nothing,,,

    However, governments in India and China — which is the world’s biggest carbon emitter — have resisted draft proposals that would allow for international verification of data.
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-12-10-copenhagen_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

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