June 2012 Open Thread

More thread.

Comments

  1. #1 Betula
    June 13, 2012

    John…

    “Betula, yes I think Lionel’s comment was over the top”

    Interesting how I had to go over the top to get you to admit that Lionel was over the top…I never would have heard it from you otherwise, in fact, it wouldn’t even have even occurred to you…..bro.

    You’re welcome.

  2. #2 Lionel A
    June 13, 2012

    My comment OT was it, I think not when we see this sort of thing:

    Virginia Lawmaker Says ‘Sea Level Rise’ Is A ‘Left Wing Term,’ Excises It From State Report On Coastal Flooding, this being reminiscent of early days in post World War I Germany and which I had in mind when making the post upthread.

    I make no apologies I am old enough to have played in bombed out streets, known rationing, know the history of between the wars and have done my time in the front line.

  3. #3 Bernard J.
    June 13, 2012

    Sunspot/Karen/Mack/(insert sock here) said at 1:59 pm:

    How do you explain this jeff ?

    The answer is simple – Sunpimple is too stupid to understand the science, and thus doesn’t see the explanation that is obvious to anyone who is polyneuronal.

    Ian Forrester’s already pointed to the reason why the planet’s poles exhibit different responses to global warming, but it seems that the pimply one just can not intellectually assimilate the very basic physics involved. And he’s been told more than once over the last year or so…

    This inability to understand is probably correlated with the less-than-average intelligence quotient under which Sunspot/Karen/Mack/(insert sock here) obviously labours, and which is further illustrated by the fact that he persists with his punctuational tells (spaces before marks) and grammatical confabulations (count the your/you’re guffs on this page alone…).

    Still, for the sake of completeness, let’s repeat an explanation of a significant difference between the two ends of the planet: the Arctic is an ice sheet floating atop an open ocean, and the Antarctic is an ice sheet sitting on a stonking great land mass called a c-o-n-t-i-n-e-n-t.

    Can you say that word Spotty? C-o-n-t-i-n-e-n-t… (For bonus points, can you count the syllables in that word?)

    Assuming that you managed to answer both previous questions correctly, how about attempting some more? (Don’t panic, they’re still Level 1…)

    Sunspot/Karen/Mack/(insert sock here) – what do you think the minimum September Arctic sea ice extent will be this year? And what about the minimum September Arctic sea ice volume?

    And on what understandings of physics and statistics do you base your answers? Extra bonus points and a teddy-bear stamp if you can use the word c-o-n-t-i-n-e-n-t in a sentence in your answer. Appropriately use it, that is.

    And it’s gratifying to see that I am getting up your goat, maculous one. I especially like ‘Barnturd’… you’re so clever – that must have taken you all night to think up. Do keep them coming though – I like this game.

  4. #4 Bernard J.
    June 13, 2012

    Heh, I see that FrankD pre-empted my questions to Mackulus regarding the sea ice figures. Should have refreshed first.

    Still, it doesn’t hurt to ask more that once – Spotty is recalitrantly unable to hear the question even after multiple repeatings, but he may one day surprise us all with a straight answer.

  5. #5 lord_sidcup
    June 13, 2012

    Some of the abusive and threatening emails sent to Phil Jones have been released (warning, strong stomach required):

    http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/116404/response/288373/attach/4/Appendix%20A%20Data%20file%20072.pdf

    Deny that, deniers.

  6. #6 Betula
    June 13, 2012

    FrankD

    “What do you think the future holds for the Arctic – ice-free at some point, or recovering?”

    Recovering from what? A given time in your head where the arctic climate remains a constant? How about 10,00 years ago or how about 150 years ago? At which point is it “recovering to”?

    “The warmest summers occurred 8–10 kyr ago and the coldest only 150 years ago. The summers over the past 100 years have been the warmest for more than 1,000 years, but are still not as warm as those of the early Holocene.”

    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v343/n6259/abs/343630a0.html

    Wait, the arctic climate is suppose to remain what it was the day FrankD was born……someone tell the Arctic.

  7. #7 Betula
    June 13, 2012

    Someone calls sea level rise a left wing term and Lionel has visions of brownshirts and flashbacks of bombed out streets……yet kids being indoctrinated with chants of “obey”, while others are being forced to chant “yes we can” while basking in the presence of the Presidents personal emblem…. doesn’t raise an eyebrow.

    Forward Lionel….c’mon, let’s get the children to all sing it together….Vorwarts, Vorwarts!

  8. #8 Wow
    June 13, 2012

    You know something, I think Betty here is actually clinically insane.

  9. #9 Betula
    June 13, 2012

    Ianumb…

    Are you still clinging to those Wisconsin exit polls?

    http://tinyurl.com/6gxuc6p

  10. #10 Betula
    June 13, 2012

    Wow…
    I have an excuse. You see, as Lionel’s imagination stated, I have “not yet graduated from that Kindergarten for Brownshirts”….

  11. #11 FrankD
    June 13, 2012

    Hey Betula, why do you always ask questions and then just project your own answers? Is it because your own facile responses are easier to refute than real peoples? Is it because you are actually as big a dipshit as you wish everyone else was? See, everything after your first three words is just your own fantasising about what I might have meant.

    Your projection is as tedious as it is predictable, and as obviously evasive as it is unoriginal. Go talk to yourself in a mirror, Betula. I was asking Karen.

  12. #12 Betula
    June 13, 2012

    FrankD…
    Ouch…looks like I struck a nerve. What do you think the future holds for our relationship – ice-free at some point, or recovering?

  13. #13 Wow
    June 13, 2012

    Frank, it’s probably that insanity I was noticing earlier.

  14. #14 Olaus Petri
    June 13, 2012

    Lord, the e-mails to Jones are horrific. Do you believe anyone denies that? C’mon!

    Existing death threats are shameful, of course, but not imaginary ones (for sceptics that is).

    No one, regardless if he’s a religious buff or not, should have to endure that kind of crap, including Jeffie.

  15. #15 chek
    June 13, 2012

    Can’t be long now till Betty and the Wattards’ meme de jour is that an ice-free Arctic ocean in summer is just the LIA ‘rebound’ natural state of things.
    .
    And they’ll buy it too, no questions asked.

  16. #16 chek
    June 13, 2012

    Lord, the e-mails to Jones are horrific. Do you believe anyone denies that? C’mon!

    The wattards (and his dbs mod) and Pope Montford’s flock seem to be doing a fair job of minimising those threats out of existence.

    And you can drop the ‘sceptic’ tag, Petard, as it doesn’t fit at all well with your M.O. You’re a denier, and like all deniers, you’re on the paranoid conspiracy crazy spectrum. Whether you’re in the yellow zone or in the red-orange zone like those emailers harassing Phil Jones is only a matter of degree. Your preference for a nonsense narrative puts you there, crocodile tears or no..

  17. #17 Olaus Petri
    June 13, 2012

    Chek, if you stop waggling poor Jeffie’s leg (left leg I presume?), you would understand that it I just did the opposite to what you are claiming.

    I don’t like death threats. Period. Learn to live with it.

    And me conspirasist? I’m not the one shouting about a well funded right wing denial machine obstructing climte science, you are. Still no proofs backing it up though, except plenty of foam from Jeffie’s big mouth and some scary high-frequency hip movements by you

  18. #18 chek
    June 13, 2012

    Your inability to read or indeed recognise previously mentioned documentation is just another characteristic of your brand of denial, Petard.

    So what if you bleat here don’t ‘like’ where the logical conclusion of your journey into denierland leads? You do NOTHING to tackle it at its source, because it serves your agenda.

  19. #19 DarylD
    William Lamb's Town Down Under
    June 14, 2012

    You want death threats on scientists like Phil Jones, Eli Rabett found quite a few.

    “Carrick Finds A Mirror” link :- http://rabett.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/carrick-finds-mirror.html

    Time to sit back and watch “Betula” and the “Old Duffer”, run like hell away from this sad evil trash.

    Sigh :(

  20. #20 bill
    June 14, 2012

    Betty is one of the most uninteresting nutters I’ve ever had the misfortune to encounter. It’s like being subjected to some unconvincing Turing Test where a garbled version of what you’ve just said get’s spat back at you by a sneering 14 year-old with BPD.

    Why bother?

    Then, demonstrating unavoidable cousinship in the necessarily incestuous hotbed of Denial, we have Olaus’ persistent, equally garbled attempts to be a smart-arse in a language clearly not his own – i.e. human speech.

    Also, why bother?

  21. #21 bill
    June 14, 2012

    Re the hate-filled, sociopathic abuse directed at Phil Jones; this is a copy of a comment I jst made over at Eli’s.

    PZ Myers’ statement on his blog –

    I reserve the right to publicly post, with full identifying information about the source, any email sent to me that contains threats of violence.

    Public exposure and humiliation is the least that these types deserve.

    Again, note the pattern:

    1: Abuse.

    2: Contemptuous denial that any abuse has occurred.

    3: Grudging acknowledgement that abuse has occurred, but it’s the abusee’s own fault, combined with nit-picking about what constitutes a threat that would never be applied to verbal thrusts directed at the ‘skeptic’s own precious carcass.

    4: Revisionist claims that any grudgingly acknowledged abuse is actually all a ploy anyway because we all know the abusees are actually the abusers.

    4 steps. A foxtrot to Hell. Then just hose down the area and repeat.

    And here’s one of the worst offenders in this whole dismal, sordid fiasco, Denial’s snivelling ‘Rock Star’ himself, just last month –

    Maybe it’s time someone did an FOI to see whether the UEA’s dodgy and discredited Phil Jones really did get any of those “death threats” he claims to have received after Climategate and which allegedly drove him to consider suicide. Speaking for myself, if Phil Jones released a report claiming that grass is green I’d feel compelled to go outside just to double check.

    Interpret your way out of this, little man. He will, of course.

    There are plenty of historical precedents of this kind of hateful targetting of outgroups. None of them are pretty…

  22. #22 bill
    June 14, 2012

    Have I mentioned how irritating the new format is? Here’s that link again…

  23. #23 ianam
    June 14, 2012

    Preserving comments deleted from Bishop Hill:

    This is typical denialist stuff and you can see more of it in these comments here. And we have all of you folks repeatedly insisting that climate scientists were lying about receiving this stuff. Rather, it is Delingpole and the rest of you who lie every third word.

    Jun 14, 2012 at 6:27 AM | mk

    ” I think there is a touch of the beast in all of us and it shows itself in frustration. Those that write hate mail probably do not know how to better articulate their frustration. ”

    Over and over here one can see this rationalization … hateful ignorant dishonest deniers were *frustrated*, poor things. Completely lacking in genuine skepticism, so many of you are motivated by views like johanna’s: “Of course they are vile, but once again I am amazed at the preciousness of people who want to drive major changes in the way we live without any consequences.” Totally beyond you is the possibility that you might be wrong, or that Phil Jones might be as convinced of his views of AGW as you are of yours and that he is genuinely presenting the science as he sees it, not wanting to drive major changes and all that hoohaw which has nothing to do with science but everything to do with your political ideology.

    When I want to show people what the global warming denialist mentality is like, I don’t point them to death threats, I point them to pages like this where they can see just how thick the intellectual dishonesty is.

    Jun 14, 2012 at 6:51 AM | mk

    You specifically state” These are death threats, and vile abuse. Rather than take a moment to reflect, most of you are trying to say ‘they’re not that bad’ or the more demented amongst you are still trying to claim they’re fabricated”
    The examples I quoted directly refute your statement. They all condemn these vile emails.

    That’s a rather remarkable bit of illogic coming from someone claiming to be a “ThinkingScientist”. How could instances of condemnation of the emails possibly refute an assertion about “the more demented amongst you”? Unless you are claiming that those who are condemning the emails are the more demented ones here? ZDB’s assertion is confirmed, and your ridiculous blather utterly refuted, by statements such as that by Mark F: “Um, Phil wrote most of them? The language and mood suggest a lame attempt at sympathy-getting.”

    Jun 14, 2012 at 7:02 AM | mk

    You can’t have it both ways. Either they were unassuming scientists, quietly beavering away – in which case no-one would ever have heard of them – or they were claiming to predict future catastrophe for the planet, requiring a major reconstruction of the economy and political structures.

    The lack of rationality in some of these comments is stunning. Of course you can have it both ways … unassuming scientists, quietly beavering away, get heard about all the time when their work has significant consequences.

    Jun 14, 2012 at 7:13 AM | mk

    mk, you’re coming over as exactly the sort of chap, or chaps, who would send abusive emails, you’re certainly sending abusive posts, which isn’t common on this site. You’re also setting up strawmen, the vast majority of posts, and the site owner, have unequivocally condemned the emails.

    “When I want to show people what the global warming denialist mentality is like, I don’t point them to death threats, I point them to pages like this where they can see just how thick the intellectual dishonesty is.”

    Nicely put.

    Your point about Jones not being politically motivated, but I have to tell you that his first comment about CA was that it seemed “right wing”. I’d have thought a scientist would have commented on the audits rather than the politics of the site, which, by the way, are politically neutral.

    I don’t know what anyone else thinks but I believe you’re lowering the tone of the site with your foam flecked rantings.

    Jun 14, 2012 at 7:27 AM | geronimo

    geronimo, you’re exactly the sort of dishonest person I refer to. This thread is full of abusive claims about Phil Jones, and your own ad hominem claim that I’m “exactly the sort of chap” is quite in contradiction with many of the statements here about the sort of people who sent these emails and the sort of language that was used in them. One of the most radically intellectually dishonest assertions here is that they mostly read like they are from the same person.

    “the politics of the site, which, by the way, are politically neutral.”

    Oh, but that tops it. I quoted johanna’s ideological, not scientific, opposition to AGW claims, and the posts at this site are thick with that sort of thing.

    Your silly assertion about “foam flecked rantings” and lowering the tone of the site is as dishonest and selective as “ThinkingScientist” attempting to refute a point that no one here has withdrawn the claim that climate scientists made up the death threats by irrelevantly quoting people voicing disgust at the emails while at the same time ignoring the relevant comments that actually did reinforce the meme, and never quoting any comment that actually did withdraw the claim.

    Sorry, but what you *claim* to believe means nothing to me because it’s transparently false and so is your motivation. Again, I *will* point to this thread, and comments like yours, to illustrate the intellectual dishonesty of deniers. If you think that it does not illustrate that, then you have no beef.

    Jun 14, 2012 at 7:41 AM | mk

    Your point about Jones not being politically motivated, but I have to tell you that his first comment about CA was that it seemed “right wing”. I’d have thought a scientist would have commented on the audits rather than the politics of the site, which, by the way, are politically neutral.

    Sorry, I misread that … you’re making a claim about CA, not this site; but your claim about CA is also false. And what you claim you would have thought a scientist would do is irrelevant. To someone as familiar with the climate science and with the sociology of the non-scientific discussion of it as Phil Jones is, what stands out and is relevant is the obvious political ideology that permeates the denier sites. It’s like Richard Dawkins coming across an anti-evolution site and remarking that it seems religious … in his experience, such sites are not the place to go for, or to expect, valid science.

    Jun 14, 2012 at 7:47 AM | mk

    “You’re also setting up strawmen, the vast majority of posts, and the site owner, have unequivocally condemned the emails.”

    As I said, the irrationality is strong on this site. I never mentioned the site owner, so it is you who are attacking a strawman. As for what “the vast majority of posts” do, that’s a point of dispute between us, so it would not be me setting up a strawman, at worst it would be me making a false claim. But I don’t think my claim was false … the posts are riddled with rationalizations like the one I quoted. And then there are the numerous people saying they have no sympathy for Jones and in various other ways weakening the condemnation, people disagreeing with Steve McIntyre that the emails are despicable, people questioning the authenticity of the emails, and people even accusing Phil Jones of writing them. No, it was no strawman, I told the truth, unlike you.

    Goodbye and have a nice century, if you can.

    Jun 14, 2012 at 7:58 AM | mk

    This is how dissenters are treated at Bishop Hill, but you won’t see any deniers complaining about freedom of speech in this case:

    Would commenters please calm down.
    Troll comments and follow-ups have been removed. Please DNFTT.

    Jun 14, 2012 at 8:00 AM | Bishop Hill

  24. #24 ianam
    June 14, 2012

    Hmm … actually, those comments haven’t been deleted, at least not yet. I’m not sure which ones were, but the comment count did drop by a couple.

  25. #25 bratisla
    June 14, 2012

    Alriiiiight I need your lights, for I am confused.
    Is this site a gigantic Poe, or the biggest blunder/suicide in PR history ever witnessed ?
    http://arcticready.com/social
    see the results here : http://arcticready.com/social/gallery

  26. #26 P. Lewis
    June 14, 2012

    Question bratisla.

    Why would Shell have a url that doesn’t start http://www.shell…?

    Here’s a real Shell US Projects and Locations page.

    If this was a bank, one might reasonably suspect a phishing exercise is at play.

  27. #27 bratisla
    June 14, 2012

    P. Lewis : that’s one of the reasons I am a bit suspicious.
    That and some faith left in humanity : someone, even an advertiser, couldn’t have done anything so stupid …

  28. #28 bratisla
    June 14, 2012



    I forgot the Heartland panels. Advertisers can be *that* dense

    But still on this case it looks so exaggerated …

  29. #29 ianam
    June 14, 2012

    that’s one of the reasons I am a bit suspicious

    If it isn’t immediately and completely obvious to you that that is fake, then there is something seriously wrong with your evaluative processes.

  30. #30 Rattus Norvegicus
    June 14, 2012

    This page:

    http://arcticready.com/kids

    Is pretty funny. It took a bit, but it is certainly a Poe.

  31. #31 bill
    June 15, 2012

    Aw, but I made an ad

  32. #33 bill
    June 15, 2012

    Though the Kulluk is now almost 30 years old, she was inactive for fourteen of them, making her as reliable as a much younger craft.

    He he.

  33. #34 DarylD
    William Lamb's Town Down Under
    June 15, 2012

    Hmmm, lets do a quick “Who Is” domain name search first.

    ArcticReady.com, first registered April 29th, 2012.

    Address P.O. Box 821650 Vancouver WA USA 98682

    Look, my lord, it comes!

    HAMLET Angels … And there assume some other horrible form, … Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. HORATIO.

    The problem is, if one clicks on java scripts, one can easily be infested with key loggers, trojans or other malware, quite easily. After all, one presumes people around here, are familiar with the infamous “Facebook virus” infection of 2011?

    link:- http://www.zdnet.com/blog/facebook/facebook-virus-or-account-hacked-heres-how-to-fix-it/5339

    Beware, the Internets, have many honeytraps, designed to trap the unwary. It also provides the necessary tools to disinfect as well, too.

    Such is life.

  34. #35 John
    June 15, 2012

    The address just appears to be that of the domain company.

  35. #36 bill
    June 15, 2012

    Um, it’s the Yes Men. In combination with Greenpeace.

  36. #37 bratisla
    June 15, 2012

    thanks for the links. To Ianam : before the Heartland ad campaign, I would have immediatly thought about the fake. But Heartland proved me people can be *that* dense.

  37. #38 DarylD
    William Lamb's Town Down Under
    June 15, 2012

    @John 8:11 am Please compare the following.

    A who is look up of ArcticReady.com

    link ; http://whois.domaintools.com/arcticready.com

    A who is look up of Shell.com

    link: http://whois.domaintools.com/shell.com

    NB the registrant’s address is Shell House London, which also contains Shell’s own servers!

    Now, the telephone number of ArcticReady.com is 1 360 449 5933. If one Google’s the number, one finds, it is linked to over 68K domains. In the past the same telephone has been linked to an Ipod scam as well.

    Web server address MayFirst.Org NY link: https://mayfirst.org/about-us

    A cyber cynic would say, something, be very rotten, in the state of Denmark, Horatio.

  38. #39 bill
    June 15, 2012

    Um, Daryl, ArcticReady is a creation of the Yes Men. And Greenpeace.

    It’s a scam, yes. But not of the type you’re describing. In fact, it’s a secondary-scam –

    Last Thursday somebody on Youtube called “kstr3l” posted a video from his phone of a Shell PR event gone horribly, hilariously wrong. By Friday afternoon it had already been watched 500,000 times, and was making the rounds with the tag #ShellFAIL. Then journalists who had covered the story received a threatening email to cut it out, calling the whole thing an environmental activist hoax and directing people to a website about the company’s arctic oil drilling plans.

    The event was a hoax, and so was the follow-up email and the website with its often hilarious-if-it-wasn’t-true fake Shell marketing copy. From the ArcticReady.com homepage: “That’s why we at Shell are committed to not only recognize the challenges that climate change brings, but to take advantage of its tremendous opportunities. And what’s the biggest opportunity we’ve got today? The melting Arctic.”

    I.E.They’re using their powers for Good, not Evil:

  39. #40 David Duff
    This Septic Isle
    June 15, 2012

    Trust the French to stick their Gallic oar in!

    According to a story in Der Spiegel, all those islands in Oceana are not disappearing under a rising tide of water brought about by, er, global warming – do stop giggling, this is serious! According to some French sceintific swots, it’s the other way round, you see, the Islands are sinking rather than the sea rising. Something to do with those tectonic plates shifting around and opening up holes in the sea bed. Or, as you might put it, “How was it for you, dear, did the earth move for you?”

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/south-pacific-islands-threatened-by-more-than-just-rising-sea-levels-a-838675-2.html

    By the way I’m still waiting for my share of global warming. It has been non-stop cool and wet since the beginning of May! I should sue you lot under the Trade Descriptions Act!

  40. #41 Betula
    June 15, 2012

    Bill…
    “They’re using their powers for Good, not Evil”

    Oh I get it, so in the link provided by Rattus, the angry icebergs are actually good icebergs and it’s the oil rigs that are evil? And here I was trying to save the oil rigs….duped yet again.

    bratisla…don’t you see it now? The angry icebergs are real, only they aren’t evil. Don’t worry, everything will be ok…. they are just trying to protect their friends the Polar Bears from the evil oil companies that provide you and Bill with the ability to travel, heat your home, use appliances, bring food to your table, purchase merchandise and access those very confusing and “suspicious” sites on your computer…

  41. #42 chek
    June 15, 2012

    Cont’d: example: The davidduff couldn’t even comprehend the headline in his own link. (Hint for davidduffed readers: the clue is in the ‘more than’.

    Betty, there is no need to destroy – or even risk destroying – the biosphere or any habitats to achieve any of those results. Now, consider these tow statements:
    There will never be enough oil.
    Oil is a finite resource.
    Now go away and contemplate that for as long as it takes to sink in, because once the irreplaceable is lost, there’s no bringing it back. And that’s regardless of whatever techno paradise the oil companies are selling you.

    What is it about trolls that attracts to them to such a lo-level of the stupid?

  42. #43 Bernard J.
    June 15, 2012

    It has been non-stop cool and wet since the beginning of May!

    This is a completely meaningless statement unless you have some reference point with which to compare your claim. For all we know “non-stop cool and wet” could be quite within the typical climatic envelope for your district.

    Contrast your pointless comment with the fact that today was the first day this year that my part of the world had the first (desultory) fog of the year, when by now we usually have had at least a dozen hearty fogs, and ones that start from early April.

    And in terms of biological responses, my medlars are usually thoroughly frost-bletted on the trees by mid-May: this year they all fell from the trees mid-June, and half were still as hard as gold balls. None of the old orchardists I know have seen this in the district before.

    Added to that, in the last week we have had drosophila over all of the late season fruit, and hovering around the red wine bottles. This is in the southern winter – usually drosophila are completely gone from this area by April – around the same time that the fogs are expected to start.

    Everyone here is commenting on the bizarre timings, that have simply not been seen before. We’re certainly experiencing warming-related phenonema that are way beyond the typical climatic envelope for our district…

    So whom do I sue, Duff?

  43. #44 bill
    June 15, 2012

    David: booooooring.

  44. #45 Lionel A
    June 15, 2012

    Duff vomited thusly:

    By the way I’m still waiting for my share of global warming. It has been non-stop cool and wet since the beginning of May!

    Where have you been? Into the volcano perhaps.

    Otherwise I call bulldust, as from memory you claim to live in the west country (of UK) somewhere and towards the end of May we had a hot dry spell which happened to break on the day of the London Thames Pageant, June 3.

    Whatever, you should take note of this article.

  45. #46 Wow
    June 15, 2012

    Lionel, when you’re a denier, it’s only one small step further to deny the evidence of ones own eyes.

    Ergo, to dai, there was no heat wave AT ALL since the beginning of May, and any memory or footage produced showing otherwise is the result of the illuminati NWO beaning thought waves into everyone’s heads, causing mass hallucinations.

  46. #47 Betula
    June 15, 2012

    Chek..

    “And that’s regardless of whatever techno paradise the oil companies are selling you.”

    They’re selling the same thing to me as they sell to you, only with my frugal lifestyle, you are “most likely” buying more of it than I am…

    Note…For those of you new to this site, “most likely” means definitely to alarmists.

  47. #48 lord_sidcup
    June 15, 2012

    Duff..has been non-stop cool and wet since the beginning of May!

    Yeah, England had its coldest May since 2010. The coldest May for 2 years! Brrrrrr. The temperature anomaly for the UK was only 0.5 °C above the 1971–2000 average. Brass monkeys!

  48. #49 DarylD
    William Lamb's Town Down Under
    June 15, 2012

    @ bill 10:48 am

    Thanks, for the up, a nice “GotchYa!”.

    So, the honeytrap, was aimed directly at the next generation of rubes, all freshly graduated from the school of ersatz journalism(political science major 101, is the primary component of the course)aka propaganda .

    Cheers :)

  49. #50 chek
    June 15, 2012

    So the eco-warior-yet-AGW-denier Betty, despite his self-imposed frugality, hails the move of the oil companies et al into the arctic in order to sustain the unsustainable for half a decade or less. Because subsidising and providing for already obese first worlders in industrial scale consumption is of far greater importance than preserving eco-systems – particularly those that uniquely affect the planet we live on.

    Tell me Betty, assuming the energy industry et al succeeeds in getting a foothold in the region, what risks do you find acceptable? A Deepwater/Exxon Valdez/Campeche type incident evey five years? Or every fifty? Or five hundred?
    Bearing in mind – as I’m sure you self-professed eco-warrior types always do – that once gone there ain’t no getting it back

    Note to readers: Despite the charade, Betty here is about as much in touch with terrestrial ecology and our absolute dependency on it as the crew of the Shuttle Endeavou in their highest orbit..

  50. #51 bill
    June 16, 2012

    Personally, I generally struggle to discern any content whatsoever resulting from Betty’s jabbing at a keyboard.

  51. #52 John
    June 16, 2012

    Thanks for linking to that article Duff. I didn’t realise the islands were sinking and the seas were rising at the same time. A double threat! I wonder what is causing the seas to rise and how that can be slowed?

  52. #53 MikeH
    June 16, 2012

    Meanwhile in the real world May 2012 was the second warmest on record.

    “The combined global land and ocean average surface temperature for May 2012 was 0.66°C (1.19°F) above the 20th century average of 14.8°C (58.6°F). This is the second warmest May since records began in 1880, behind only 2010.

    “The Northern Hemisphere land and ocean average surface temperature for May 2012 was the all-time warmest May on record, at 0.85°C (1.53°F) above average.

    “The globally-averaged land surface temperature for May 2012 was the all-time warmest May on record, at 1.21°C (2.18°F) above average.

    “May 2012 also marks the 36th consecutive May and 327th consecutive month with a global temperature above the 20th century average.

    “According to NOAA’s Climate Prediction Center, there is a 50 percent chance that El Niño conditions will emerge during the second half of 2012.

  53. #54 John
    June 16, 2012

    But it’s cold where Duff lives, MikeH. Do stop giggling, this is what he claims to believe!

  54. #55 bill
    June 16, 2012

    Let me be the first to identify that Duff is clearly now working for Vantage Weather Services. He may not be as buxom as their preferred ‘employees’, but he’s certainly sufficiently addled.

  55. #56 Betula
    June 16, 2012

    Chek…
    What’s to worry about? Big Government needs to approve it and will oversee daily operations to make sure they are compliant with Federal Regulations. What could go wrong?

    Isn’t this your utopia?

    “The Obama administration also previously signed off on Shell’s broad drilling blueprints for the region, and the Environmental Protection Agency has issued clean air permits for the flotilla of vessels that will be involved in Shell’s operations.”

    http://www.adn.com/2012/06/15/2506241/regulator-vows-close-watch-on.html

    Hope And Change! …..FORWARD!

  56. #57 Betula
    June 16, 2012

    Sorry about that last comment. I forgot, I’m the problem….

  57. #58 chek
    June 16, 2012

    As you know Betty, there is a small – actually no, a large army of K Streeters working tirelessly to hollow out and render Government regulation of industry moot, just as is happening in Harper’s regime in Canada. The EPA is itself under threat.
    Perhaps you missed this, from your own link? Or more likely decided it didn’t comply with your narrative.
    “Government auditors warned in a March report that icy conditions, dark days and a lack of infrastructure could hinder efforts to clean up any spill in the region, even if a damaged well were capped swiftly.

  58. #59 Mike
    June 16, 2012

    What is it with this blog and people like Duff whose entire world encompasses only that which is within a radius of a few miles of his house?

  59. #60 Chris O'Neill
    June 17, 2012

    “Meanwhile in the real world May 2012 was the second warmest on record.”

    This means, I presume, that La Nina is finished and that we can look forward (ha) to yet another warmest 12 month period and then warmest calendar year on record. Denialworld will then regurgitate their “antidotes to warmest year on record” on cue.

  60. #61 adelady
    city of wine and roses
    June 17, 2012

    Nah.

    They’ll just hit the reset button on it’s-been-cooling-since-…. .

  61. #62 Bernard J.
    June 17, 2012

    Chris O’Neill.

    You presume correctly.

  62. #63 DarylD
    William Lambs Town down Under
    June 17, 2012

    Spotted over at ‘Desmogblog’, an expose of Chesapeake Energy’s latest merchandising of doubt astroturf crass trash mocumentary.

    It is , short on facts and long on propaganda. link: http://www.desmogblog.com/fracking-industry-s-answer-gasland-devised-astroturf-lobbying-group-and-political-ad-agency

    LiesLand mocumentary, is thirty five minutes of short on facts and long on propaganda. Martin Durkin style, errors and easily debunked fictitious claims, from start to finish. Made an interesting use of Chesapeake Energy’s paid industry consultants, as expert witnesses, to skew the view.

    One youtube user “TXDSGMACH”, shows complete ignorance,or even a basic understanding of the geology of “Marcellus Shale” period..

    “LiesLand(all lies, no truth or facts) Full Version” link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTJaaeiuzSU

    Short fact free version : link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps8hsexFSmo

    Looks like Shelly DePue, forgot to take out the trash, from this creative garbage skunk propaganda mocumentary.

    EPA: Natural Gas Fracking Linked to Water Contamination
    Scientific American link: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fracking-linked-water-contamination-federal-agency

    The myth of ‘clean’ natural gas is contaminating the debate about America’s energy future. link: http://www.desmogblog.com/fracking-the-future/myth.html

  63. #64 jrkrideau
    June 17, 2012

    Some readers of this blog probably have heard of Margaret Wente a columnist for the Globe and Mail in Toronto.

    She seems to be a bit of a denier. Mediaculpapost has some interesting articles about her writings (and borrowings)

    Google mediaculpapost wente for some interesting reading.

  64. #65 MikeH
    June 18, 2012

    You mean this Margaret Wente?

  65. #66 jrkrideau
    June 18, 2012

    @MikeH
    Seems a lot like her, now that you mention it.

  66. #67 Lionel A
    June 18, 2012

    Margaret Wente

    Canada’s answer to Melanie Phillips perhaps.

  67. #68 ianam
    June 18, 2012

    To Ianam : before the Heartland ad campaign, I would have immediatly thought about the fake. But Heartland proved me people can be *that* dense.

    Sorry, but it is obvious to any reasonably intelligent person that ArticReady is a parody. Heartland’s ads are irrelevant, not least because, every day, numerous deniers (including, of course, Deltoid’s trolls) present stuff far more absurd, and much closer to ArticReady, than Heartland’s poor judgment about how their guilt-fallacious ads would be received. Actually, No Pressure is considerably more relevant because it was a form of parody. If you think for a moment that Shell could possibly really be behind ArticReady, then you’re also capable of thinking that teachers really will blow up students who don’t volunteer to reduce their carbon footprint. Either is a sign of severe mental retardation.

    A note on Poe’s Law: Like Godwin’s Law it is humorously formulated as hyperbole that is literally true. The original formulation is “Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of fundamentalism that someone won’t mistake for the real thing.” Note that the qualities that make someone that someone are not positive ones. (And in the case of ArcticReady, there are numerous blatant displays of humor — again, blatant to anyone with reasonable intelligence.)

  68. #69 David Duff
    This Septic Isle
    June 19, 2012

    I understand that this blog is Australian and so I would like to offer my sympathy to you all. First, for the sheer hell of clinging for life to the extreme edges of a total desert. Second, because on top of all your other travails you have to put up with and pay for another load of incompetent lying liars at your Bureau of Meterology who are the equal of ours at the Met Office.

    Apparently their so-called ‘High Quality’ data is not something under which you would wish to shelter in a rainstorm, it having more holes in it than a Swiss cheese! Under pressure of a threatened audit of their old stats the ‘BoM’ threw them overboard and started again. According to reports, the new data is as dodgy as one of my old second-hand cars (than which, etc, etc) and contains all the old errors but just mixed up a bit more. Also, this new series was rushed out so fast it has a literacy rating of E for effort!

    After due analysis, the critics summed it up, thus:

    “1.Like the old HQ series, the Acorn record is also still impossible to replicate.
    2.The record is much shorter than 100 years for many sites. It’s supposed to be high quality, but it has many gaps and spurious errors. If volunteers can write code on laptops to check for errors — and find, for example, that one 36.8C was accidentally changed to a 26.8C (and there are many) why can’t the Australian BOM?
    3.Like the old series, Acorn’s trends are very different from what the raw data shows. (Why do we bother with thermometers?)
    4.Hot and cold extremes have been adjusted, for the most part warming winters and cooling summers, and at some sites new and more extreme records have been set.”

    You couldn’t make it up, er, well, you could if you work at BoM!

    http://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/2012/05/14/acorn-sat-a-preliminary-assessment/

  69. #70 Jeff Harvey
    June 19, 2012

    More anti-science by blog. *Sigh*. Duffer, you deniers never cease to amaze me. The blogs you forever cite never do real science, never publish in the scientific journals, rarely if ever attend the relevant conferences, and instead seem content to sit by the sidelines sniping away at any studies/scientists/institutions you don’t like. Do you and the other deniers do anything but sit on your collective butts reading denier blogs? What a sad lot you bunch are.

  70. #71 Wow
    June 19, 2012

    Deniers never start to amaze me.

  71. #72 Betula
    June 19, 2012
  72. #73 Bernard J.
    June 19, 2012

    In Australia, if you’re a polluter and stinking rich, you can buy a big chunk of the country’s remaining relatively democratic print media with the view to controlling its board of directors and the editorial staff, so that you can impose your political and personal views on the output of your new company.

    And so it is that Gina Rinehart been able to take what is not currently a good business proposition but which still has clout in public opinion, and turn it from Fairfax Media to Fauxfacts Media in her campaign to halt and then to reverse any and all action against reducing carbon emissions. And if she can have the tax on mining super-profits dumped along the way, all the better.

    For some people, being obscenely and insanely rich is not enough…

  73. #74 Lotharsson
    June 19, 2012

    Speaking of Rinehart and Fairfax

  74. #75 chek
    June 19, 2012

    What’s that you say, Skippyduff?
    Anthony’s got some more clueless Curtin-grade mathwank showing it’s all faulty records and a big frawd and the Polar regions are only melting due to Al Gore sending crack teams of greenies there with their de-icer sprays and shovels?

    Tell you what Skippyduff, come back and try again when Anthony falls down a well or a disused mineshaft or otherwise does something useful.

  75. #76 Olaus Petri
    June 19, 2012

    I see Jeffie and his hate-minions are on a scientific roll, being stunned by the blogs denialist read. :-) Well for a guy who belives that Himalayan glaciers support 500 millions humans and yetis with fresh water, and consider any ecology scare report on “climate change” (where CAGW is taken for granted) as climate science, and thrives on an illuminati of fossil fuel funden Elders that obstruct climate science….isn’t it a bit…ehm…rich? ;-)

  76. #77 bill
    June 19, 2012

    God you’re boring, David.

    Congrats, Olaus, you have achieved a Betty level of incoherence.

  77. #78 Richard Simons
    June 20, 2012

    Do you and the other deniers do anything but sit on your collective butts reading denier blogs? What a sad lot you bunch are.

    They don’t even have the guts (or, more likely, knowledge) to visit the other active thread and either defend or criticize Tim Curtin and his idiocy over the notion that N2 and O2 are the real greenhouse gases.

  78. #79 Richard Simons
    June 20, 2012

    Sorry – link failure. Which idiot thought it would be a good idea to remove ‘preview’?

  79. #80 Lotharsson
    June 20, 2012

    Which idiot thought it would be a good idea to remove ‘preview’?

    Some exec or manager at National Geographic with delusions of user-experience competence and technical grandeur.

  80. #81 bill
    June 20, 2012

    What I don’t get is why you’d incorporate perfectly workable blockquote CSS – the old one was shocking, lumping all paras into a congealed mass like that bill you left in your pocket last wash – but then insist on italicizing the contents.

    And where, oh where, are the permalinks?

  81. #82 Jeff Harvey
    June 20, 2012

    Olaus seems to constantly suggest that I am “hate-fillled” for some deluded strenage reason.The again,if by ‘hate’ he means that I loathe the abuse of science by a well-funded coterie of ostensibly right wing ideologues who are compromising the future to promote the short-term agendas of the privileged few, then OK, I ‘hate’. Olaus consistenly denies that there is an exceedingly well funded denialati, when there are piles of evidence that, when the collective cash is added up to the following: think tanks, astroturfand other front groups,pundits, the corporate media, books and articles, politicians, including both donations for election campaigns and lobbying, Public Realtions firms ( abillion dolar industry unto itself), and some scientists, the total is immense. Billions of dollars? Over the last decade, most certainly. Sharon Beder, Naomi Oreskes, Andrew Rowell, David Helvarg and others have written extensively over many years about the denial industry, and many other sources are available.

    Olaus, like other D-K acolytes, demands that I personally deliver the evidence to his door step, and even then he’ll just bin it and call it all a ‘vast conspiracy’. People who don’t like the message will always shoot the messenger. When it comes to ‘science’, Olaus and his brainless horde don’t give a damn. The evidence re: AGW has been ‘in’ for the past 10-15 years, yet all he and his free-market absolutists want is to let the markets decide, and the eviscerate the role of the government in the economy.

  82. #83 P. Lewis
    June 20, 2012

    Olaus seems to constantly suggest that I am “hate-filled”

    I suppose disdainfulness can come across as “hate”.

    Timewasting trolls should be given the ever-decreasing latitude their current and past follies deserve before being treated with thorough disdain (though I’d much rather ignoring their follies altogether with killfile).

  83. #84 Mack
    June 20, 2012

    ” When it comes to science, Olaus and his brainless horde don’t give a damn. ” Jeff , if you want some science . I’ll give it to you…..
    http://jennifermarohasy.com/author/nasif-s-nahle/
    Just read it you brainless fuckwitt!
    (sorry Tim but couldn’t resist your cookie)

  84. #85 Lionel A
    June 20, 2012

    And on another environmental front here is something else that is unsustainable, Sydney’s secret undersea scrapheap .

    But I am sure Sydney, or Australia, are not alone in having such a problem.

    Packaging of consumer products and the mechanisms for recycling, or disposal, need a major rethink involving producers, sellers and end users. If climate change doesn’t get us then this will.

  85. #86 Wow
    June 20, 2012

    “if you want some science . I’ll give it to you…..
    http://jennifermarohasy.com/author/nasif-s-nahle/

    OK, so when are you going to come up with some science?

    Massive Nail doesn’t have it.

  86. #87 bill
    June 20, 2012

    Sod off, ‘Mack’.

  87. #88 Jeff Harvey
    June 20, 2012

    Mack…. what an ass**** you are. Yesterday I was discussing how idiots like you and other deniers on Deltoid rely on pseudo-scientific bull**** that oozes from a range of far right web logs and think tanks and the like. from people who stay a million miles away from conferences where the real professionals who publish in the real journals discuss and debate the issues.

    So what do you do? A piece by Nasif Nahle, who appears to have hardly published a scientific paper in his life, posted up on Marohasy’s comic book right wing blog Where is the primary literature? In what journal has Nahle published this tripe? On his contrarian web site?

    As I said, you deniers are a bunch of idiots of thr first order. As soon as I see Nahle’s shite publiushed in a major scientific journal, I will respond. But not until. Certainly not on a right wing blog. So take my advice: p*** off until you are capable of citing real science published in a high impact journal that appears on the Web of Science.

    You twit.

  88. #89 Wow
    June 20, 2012

    And, Mack, here’s some science for you:

    http://www.ipcc.ch

  89. #90 lord_sidcup
    June 20, 2012

    Mack’s ‘science’ features an advert for car rental.

  90. #91 lord_sidcup
    June 20, 2012

    Meanwhile, Arctic sea ice hits a record low for this time of year:

    http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2012/06/sea-ice-tracking-at-record-low-levels/

  91. #92 Jeff Harvey
    June 20, 2012

    On one of the Nasif Nahle threads linked by Mack, a reader (Dave) gushes forth in his praise of Nahle’s ‘science’.

    Nahle then responds: “Thank you very much for your kind words! I’ll keep doing my work adhered to science…”

    He forgot to add in the important caveat: …”but I will ensure that my ‘science’ is always posted on right wing blogs like this one, and that it is never, ever scrutinized by experts in the field. And above all I will make sure that I do not send it to a scientific journal. I promise you this”.

    I checked up our old friend Nasif on the Web of Science to see how many of his studies are in there. Guess what. A big, fat zilch. Zero.

    Why does this not surprise me? Mack and the other clowns who contaminate Deltoid adhere to the ‘only science is libertarian blog science’ credo.

  92. #93 Wow
    June 20, 2012

    Massive Nail has been here before. He was using a RATE of temperature change with a self-selected volume of atmosphere to show that the temperature increase (not a rate) was “explained” by it.

    I.e. his incompetence was such that he thought

    meters per second (velocity) == meters (distance)

  93. #94 chek
    June 20, 2012

    lord_sidcup: “Mack’s ‘science’ features an advert for car rental”.

    Could have been worse lord_s.
    It might have been on a scratchcard.

  94. #95 Olaus Petri
    June 20, 2012

    Jeffie, 10-15 years of AGW-proof “has been in” you say. I believe you mix up the numbers (like merchants of fear always do). I’m sure you are reffering to the hiatus of the warming trend (of 10-15 years) that has “showed up” despite the record levels of Co2?

    And still no evidence of the right wing denial machine obstructing climate science? :-)

    Authoritarian personalities prosper in hateful and intolerant environments (sic), hence Jeff feel at home at Deltoid where everything is black and white. Why this is the case is no mystery. Self loving authoritarian personalities are drawn into sects where they can boost there egos pointing finger at “others” not listening good enough to the gospel at hand.

  95. #96 Olaus Petri
    June 20, 2012

    When reading Jeffie’s posts I see an emperor penguin before me. Why is that? ;-)

    Speaking of which:

    https://www2.ucar.edu/atmosnews/news/7352/emperor-penguins-threatened-antarctic-sea-ice-loss

    On the other hand:

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0033751

    Are the emperor penguins about to be “polar beared” in the name of CAGW? ;-)

    Jeff, can you please toddle out the confusion?

  96. #97 chek
    June 20, 2012

    What’s actually interesting Petard is that you have no defence of the quack science propagated by your ‘heroes’, but you settle for attacking Jeff Harvey, – who like most here treats your preferred crank ‘science’ with the respect it deserves ( which is none) – and who stood up and scuttled Lomborg’s lukewarmer boat circus act. Always a hard one (hehe) for you Lomborg mafosibois to …. er… swallow (hehe).

    Petard: – “still no evidence of the right wing denial machine obstructing climate science!

    Of course you blind yourself to what is previously documented, but never mind as it of course cuts no ice (as they say) with those capable of reading long words and who know better. As a rule of thumb, the more a dyed-in-the-wool deniertwat denies, the greater the likelihood of the facts being denied being spot on.

    You should know by now – Petard, once hoisted as a troll and furthermore a Jonarse N pack-troll, always a simpleton troll. In short, you and your pack are wasting your time – which is fine as every second spent here is a second saved elswhere to whom your crackpot evidenceless kookiness is an as yet unknown quantity.

  97. #98 Olaus Petri
    June 20, 2012

    Chek, you sure are a One hour photo-guy when it comes to Jeff. That level of adoreship can’t be healthy. Seek help or Jeff will soon find you crawling around in his bedroom smelling after an odd sock or two to put in your Jeff-shrine. I don’t want that to happen to him. He might be a big little Napoleon, but that doesn’t mean he deserves being stalked by character of your creepy kind.

    When you believers can provide me with something more substantial than hateful conspiracy theories I will gladly listen to you.

    In other words: nothing new on the climate threat front.

  98. #99 chek
    June 20, 2012

    I repeat – and thanks for verifying – that what’s actually interesting Petard is that you have no defence. Claiming ignorance is no defence – but it’s the best you can do.

  99. #100 DarylD
    William Lamb's Town Down Under
    June 21, 2012

    Ah mack, Betula and old Duffer, watt they are really trying to say from their limited monochromatic factually challenged world of cranks in denial, “The Sky is Pink”.

    Sad, but true.

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