July 2012 Open Thread

Phew, looks the carbon tax has not returned Australia to the Stone Age.

Comments

  1. #1 ianam
    July 3, 2012

    all you science people

    As opposed to ignorant imbeciles like pentaxZ … exactly.

  2. #2 GSW
    July 3, 2012

    @Lenny

    I think it’s a reference to a claim that Slingo made at the HoC Inquiry. She said that Climate model projections were robust/reliable as they ran the same models twice a day for weather forecasts.

  3. #3 ianam
    July 3, 2012

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SCI_WEIRD_WEATHER?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-07-03-03-05-05

    But they got it wrong about John Christy: “a global warming skeptic” — no, he’s not that foolish, but the media can’t distinguish between GW and AGW. As for foolish, though, Christy’s statment “The guilty party in my view is Mother Nature.” certainly is. That makes no more sense than “God did it” or “it’s warm because the LIA is ending” or “opium puts people to sleep because it has virtus dormitiva“.

  4. #4 bill
    The 6th most livable city in the world [The Economist]
    July 3, 2012

    Suzanne Goldenberg, Christian Parenti and Jeff Masters on the new climate and its exacerbation by the Republican War on Science on today’s DemocracyNow!

  5. #5 bill
    July 4, 2012

    May I say I’m honoured to be a ‘science person’. As the Denialati’s sad little empire melts away I’m noticing these Freudian errors are starting to leak out.

    You can’t hide, Mr. ClownMan. The Arctic extent, area, and volume are in freefall. The Greenland Melt is unprecedented. As are so many other things in the world we see around us.

    And all you have is the bog-standard thickheaded gloating confusion based on your inability to distinguish between weather and climate. Nobody can predict the weather one week out – read a book on Chaos some time – but everyone here in the Southern Hemisphere knows January will be warmer than July, and everyone with a functioning intellect now knows that if you keep pumping GHGs into the atmosphere it’s going to get warmer, though nobody can say precisely how much warmer January 2052 will be. And nobody claims to.

    Oh, and then you have that wonderful, woefully inadequate, wiki page attempting to neatly regiment mutually-contradictory chum-nuggets – like lining up dog-turds on a pavement – cobbled together by third-rate minds with delusions of blog science, which is, what, 97% of you? And Lord frickin’ Monckton. And Tony Watts, who even looks like the villainous amusement park owner unmasked at the end of every Scooby Doo cartoon, appropriately enough. And Tim Curtin, who is… Tim Curtin. I notice even the toxic avengers who hang around here know enough to stay away from that one.

    And some pathetic fiasco you lot cobbled together via theft followed by grotesque abuse of content in 2009, and now you bleat that no-one will take your claims seriously! Let’s face it, that was the pinnacle, the top of your arc, and it’s just down, down, down from here.

    Denial is what’s cooling.

    Admit it. To yourself. Things really aren’t going well. You’re all going to end up as bitter and deluded social castaways in your old age, shuffling about and muttering to yourselves about gummint conspiracies and UN stormtroopers and it was actually pretty cold last Wednesday.

    Those of you who aren’t there already.

    Hey, who knows; maybe it’s no too late to give up The Stupid?

  6. #6 John
    July 4, 2012

    Congratulations on noting the Greenland ice sheets are retreating Pentaxz. I wonder what is causing that retreat? Is it magic? Faries? Cholesterol?

    Karen, as I recall, was most alarmed by this retreat, going as far as to call the recent loss “drastic”.

  7. #7 bill
    July 4, 2012

    Oh, and Josh, the Cartoonist Who Wasn’t Funny.

  8. #8 John
    July 4, 2012

    Duff claimed “Incidentally, it is now official, this is the wettest, coolest Apr/May/Jun for absolute yonks” while linking to an NOAA map.

    “It is now official” he said.

    Here’s what’s really happening:

    But since at least 1988, climate scientists have warned that climate change would bring, in general, increased heat waves, more droughts, more sudden downpours, more widespread wildfires and worsening storms. In the United States, those extremes are happening here and now.

    So far this year, more than 2.1 million acres have burned in wildfires, more than 113 million people in the U.S. were in areas under extreme heat advisories last Friday, two-thirds of the country is experiencing drought, and earlier in June, deluges flooded Minnesota and Florida.

    “This is what global warming looks like at the regional or personal level,” said Jonathan Overpeck, professor of geosciences and atmospheric sciences at the University of Arizona. “The extra heat increases the odds of worse heat waves, droughts, storms and wildfire. This is certainly what I and many other climate scientists have been warning about.”

  9. #9 John
    July 4, 2012

    Tamino has published a great post exposing WUWT’s hypocrisy on their outrage at being labelled “deniers”:

    Remember Cheefio Smith? He’s the one who did the “analysis” on which Anthony Watts and Joe D’Aleo based their accusations that climate scientists committed fraud, manipulating temperature data. When I analyzed the data myself I showed that they were wrong — and about a half-dozen other bloggers did exactly the same thing. Watts’ only “defense” was that he hadn’t done the analysis! He only made the accusations. The result: Watts and D’Aleo changed their accusatory document, but as for the apology they owe, we’re still waiting.

    Perhaps one of the half a dozen trolls here who believe it is cooling can go and set Anthony Watts straight.

  10. #10 Bernard J.
    July 4, 2012

    As Bill noted on Skeptical Science, the “Deconstructing” Skeptical Science (quotation marks corrected…) wiki says:

    This wiki is in “alpha” state of development and we invite you to help plan and grow it “under wraps” until enough support, structure, and configurations are in place.

    That would be “under wraps” like an Aero bar.

  11. #11 John
    July 4, 2012

    I think we all look forward to the Wiki eplaining how the global warming that isn’t happening is caused both by the sun and cosmic rays.

  12. #12 ianam
    July 4, 2012

    pentaxZ’s Greenland piece seems to be popular with the denialati. The only reason I can see is that they’re all imbeciles. Here you can see a couple of them being ripped to shreds by “science people”.

  13. #13 ianam
    July 4, 2012

    I’ve heard that argument before…

    An example of a PRATT.

  14. #14 ianam
    July 4, 2012
  15. #15 bill
    July 4, 2012

    What is it about Deniers and truly awful graphics and layouts? That thing is migraine inducing!

    And, if that wasn’t bad enough, it has more cartoons by Josh.

  16. #16 pentaxZ
    July 4, 2012

    Lionel A
    And your reason to call me a dumbass is?

    I would say that no one claims that climate change isn’t happening. On the contrary, climate is always changing. And it always will. But as a non believer in the cAGW church, we realists realise that climate change is a perfectly normal event. If humans contribute to the warming with co2 emissons, it would be impossible to even se the signal in the natural noise because of it’s microscopic effect. Therefore it’s just plain stupid to pay it any attention at all. Believing anything else is just redicoulus.

    So, what was your point with the pictures again?

  17. #18 chek
    July 4, 2012

    I would say that no one claims that climate change isn’t happening.
    And you’d be wrong.
    Listen, dumbass.
    For those with memories longer than a goldfish with ADHD, we’ve had the whole gamut of excuses from deniers. From the Watts’ /Pielke UHI fallacy to McIntyres Yamal OCD on downwards, all intent on proving it wasn’t warming. And now you’re rapidly running out of trenches to retreat back to.

    But then nobody expects intellectual honesty – or even ability – from blanket deniers like you anyway.

  18. #19 Lotharsson
    July 4, 2012

    …it would be impossible to even se the signal in the natural noise because of it’s microscopic effect.

    So…you must have a theory or model that produces an estimate of the size of the effect. What exactly is that size, complete with your confidence intervals, and how exactly was it derived? And how does your model determine what is “noise” and what is “signal”?

  19. #20 bill
    July 4, 2012

    ‘Time for a reality check’, followed by a link to Watts. Phhhhtt…

    So, Genius, and I use that word with heavy irony, your brilliant take on Arctic and Greenland melt, then? Oh, let me guess; it’s ‘natural’. WTF does that even mean?

    What’s causing the ‘natural’ warming, then? Right, back to Curtinland. Is CO2 a greenhouse gas? What temp would the earth be at with no CO2 in the atmosphere? Have we increased its concentration in the atmosphere by 40% over pre-industrial levels? How is that not making a difference, then?

    The Sun? What’s the Sun actually been doing while the temps have been climbing? Furthermore, if it’s the Sun, why are upper atmosphere temps not rising? Why are nights warming more than days?

    (Look, here’s something short you can read on the AGW signature – we wouldn’t want your lips to get sore, after all.)

    If it’s cosmic rays, where the hell are all the papers backing this up? How the hell can gases in the actual bloody atmosphere influencing temperature – known to be true for more than 150 years – be inherently, hand-wavingly absurd, but cosmic rays from the other side of the galaxy on the other hand… And if that’s what’s doing it, what’s happened to the CO2 greenhouse, then?

    And if none of you ‘denies’ there’s warming, why is Watts challenging the temp record – you know, as in ‘it’s not really warming after all’ – yet again only a few days ago?

    Christ, the dishonesty, incoherence and absurdity of you people is truly extraordinary. You are a pathetic testimony to some inherent defect whereby even those with the greatest privileges in human history by way of education can voluntarily choose to be The most Stupid People ever!

    You are defective, ignoble, and most of all, you are wrong.

    Believing anything else is just redicoulus.

    Exactly.

  20. #21 Wow
    July 4, 2012

    “And your reason to call me a dumbass is?”

    Your dumbassery.

    “I would say that no one claims that climate change isn’t happening”

    That there is one example.

    “On the contrary, climate is always changing.”

    Second one.

    “But as a non believer in the cAGW church, ”

    Third.

    Basically, absolutely everything you say is dumbassery.

    How is “climate always changes” proof that man isn’t the cause of this one? Given there is no cAGW church, what is the meaning of not being a member?

    And so on and so forth.

  21. #22 Lotharsson
    July 4, 2012

    How is “climate always changes” proof that man isn’t the cause of this one?

    Or as I analogise that particular piece of rampant stupidity:

    Because my car has always accelerated and decelerated in the past, the fact that I’ve driven over the edge of a very large cliff is nothing to worry about. I’m sure the brakes will start working any second now. … Any sec…

    Or shorter:

    Lung cancer happens to non-smokers.

    Therefore smoking can never cause lung cancer.

  22. #23 Jeff Harvey
    July 4, 2012

    PentaxZ isn’t merely a dumbass: he is wilfully ignorant, as process almost certainly linked with his innane statements with respect to global government. Its hardly surprising that most of the crowd who Penty would call ‘realists’ are in fact wilfully ignorant non-scientists with far right political beliefs.

    Hardly enlightened.

  23. #24 zoot
    July 4, 2012

    Statins is the worlds most sold “medicine”. Big Pharmas golden cow.Someone mentioned “Correlation/causality”. The cholesterol theory is just that, a theory. Never proven. The cholesterol hypothesis is just as notorious in the medicine science as the hockey schtick is in the climate science. Ancel Keys and Michael Mann, same same but different.

    Is there anything in the world of pentaxZ that isn’t a conspiracy?

  24. #25 Lionel A
    July 4, 2012

    pentaxZ @ 8:29 am

    Lionel A
    And your reason to call me a dumbass is?

    Your repeated claim that high cholesterol is not a factor in heart attacks and more specifically in my case Myocardial Infarction where heart cells die leaving one permanently incapacitated. And no by-pass surgery cannot help.

    Furthermore this had nothing to do with carbohydrate intake. I was a victim of the sort of tobacco propaganda propped up by the likes of Richard Lindzen and of course my own wish to kid myself things were OK because I was having no trouble with breathing and led a very active life.

    The stress of a full time job involving much driving with periods of intense physical and mental activity, teaching evening classes computer related subjects in a local college, providing logistic support for two children at university at opposite ends of the country whilst engaged on a masters course myself was another factor – often eating on the fly, but not junk food, as it were was probably a big factor too.

    But then people like you can only handle one or two variables at a time.

    It has been mooted that there is a connection between the increase in pirates and global warming. Well indeed there could be, and seeing the way the winds blowing, or changing in blowing that could increase. But which is the independent variable here, once other factors such as resource extraction and socio-political factors have been excluded, is it global warming and its related climate change or increase in pirates.

    As for glaciers you avoided my question WRT the IPCC document concerned. So that is another strike, of many more which could be offered.

  25. #26 chek
    July 4, 2012

    Is there anything in the world of pentaxZ that isn’t a conspiracy?

    I have a hypothesis that it’s what helps make a life of dull stupidity seem interesting. There’s likely a whole bunch more if the surface was to be scratched.

  26. #27 pentaxZ
    July 4, 2012

    Henry Louis Mencken:
    Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.

    Spot on, wouldn’t you say, dudes? :-)

  27. #28 Lotharsson
    July 4, 2012

    The cholesterol hypothesis is just as notorious in the medicine science as the hockey schtick is in the climate science.

    So, not notorious at all amongst practically all relevantly qualified actual scientists, then?

    Did you really mean to undermine your own case in a display of clown-trolling? And do you realise as clown-trolls go, you’re seriously outclassed by some of the other regulars? Maybe you need a new vocation.

  28. #29 Harry
    July 4, 2012

    @pentaxZ

    8:34 am
    “Time for a reallity check, “science” dudes.”

    He’s wrong, again. High temperature records are outnumbering low temperature records by a long way.

  29. #30 Lotharsson
    July 4, 2012

    …the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.

    Yep, like the UN is coming to (a) take away your guns (b) take over your government (c) redistribute wealth for its own sake under the guise of a massive worldwide conspiracy to fake easily debunked science.

    That sort of thing, you meant?

  30. #31 Lotharsson
    July 4, 2012

    …to keep the populace alarmed…

    (And in local terms, “GREAT BIG NEW TAX THAT WILL ‘ROON THE ‘CONOMY! ‘ROON IT, I SEZ!”)

  31. #32 Karen
    July 4, 2012

    If you research Linus Pauling, the two times Nobel Prize winner, then you will find that PentaxZ is correct.

    His research was largely covered up because the pharmaceutical companies could not patient his research findings and if his findeings were implemented they stood to lose billions in profit from their mostly ineffective drugs.

    Yes, most cardiovascular drugs are pushed on the unwitting pubic backed by dodgy and falsified science, studies around the world now also show that doctors drugs kill and maim more people per year than illegal drugs.

    Lionel do yourself a favor and read Pauling’s research.

  32. #33 lord_sidcup
    July 4, 2012

    PentaxZ responds with a bland aphorism.

    Isn’t it time to ban this time-wasting Cretin? Come to think of it, wasn’t The Cretin previously banished to the Jonas thread?

  33. #34 bill
    July 4, 2012

    Jesus, Pentax, do you reckon Mencken would have had actual institutions of learning like the Academy of Science in mind, or ‘my ignorance is a match fer yer fancy edjerkation any day’ demagoguery from the likes of Heartland and Watts? The actual scientific method, or pseudo-populist ravings about big gummint, socialists in the weather bureaus, and UN takeovers?

    You guys really cannot see yourselves from the outside at all, can you?

    And Karen kindly drops by to provide further confirmation for the theory of crank-magnetism. FWIW.

  34. #35 pentaxZ
    July 4, 2012

    So, Dark Lord, when a so called moron writes you on the nose, you start barking about banning. Is that all you got? Hey, perhaps hard moderation is the reason why the debate is so vigelant at alarmistic blogs?

  35. #36 Lotharsson
    July 4, 2012

    Hey, perhaps hard moderation is the reason why the debate is so vigelant at alarmistic blogs?

    Evidence.

    You ain’t got it.

    (In fact you provide your own refutation. Again.)

  36. #37 pentaxZ
    July 4, 2012

    And as so typical for alarmistas, you always attack the messenger instead of the actual message. You funny lot.

  37. #38 Wow
    July 4, 2012

    “”Is there anything in the world of pentaxZ that isn’t a conspiracy?”

    I have a hypothesis that it’s what helps make a life of dull stupidity seem interesting. ”

    No, the reason is far simpler and self-obsessed.

    Tampax doesn’t believe the evidence. But he can’t find anything wrong with it.

    Given the choice of

    a) being wrong
    b) someone hiding the evidence that proves him right

    he immediately picks (b).

  38. #39 Lotharsson
    July 4, 2012

    …you always attack the messenger instead of the actual message.

    Given that you’ve provided a bunch of assertions backed by very poorly substantiated evidence, there hasn’t been much actual message to attack.

    Let me know when you actually have one.

  39. #40 lord_sidcup
    July 4, 2012

    “..you always attack the messenger instead of the actual message.”

    You don’t have a message, Cretin.

  40. #41 pentaxZ
    July 4, 2012
  41. #42 P. Lewis
    July 4, 2012

    The cholesterol hypothesis is just as notorious in the medicine science as the hockey schtick is in the climate science.

    One of the less dangerous myths one comes across on the intertubes is that William Blake wrote the poem The Liar. Now, you can peruse the online indexes in a number of his complete works print publications to see whether they contain The Liar as title or “Deceiver, dissembler” as first line. But no. Not there. But I guess the scholarly writers could have forgotten one, or someone found an erstwhile lost one about 6 or 7 years or so ago! Anyway, it must be true, because someone has said Blake did so on the internet.

    As to diet: we know that balanced is good (fat, carbs, protein); more pulses, fruit and veg is good; less processed foods and fizzy drinks is good. Everyone knows that, and a little bit of what you fancy won’t do you any harm either (normal caveats apply). And to be fair to pentaxZ, a number of the people involved in this “low carb high fat” diet/”it’s not cholesterol” have MD after their names, but then so did Dr Atkins with his diet and so did a few MDs in the MMR/autism “debate”, and so do a few with regard to homeopathy, etc. But…

    That LDL is one factor in the multifactor nature of heart disease is evident from studies of those unfortunates that suffer from the genetic disorder familial hypercholesterolaemia. The study of this earned a Nobel Prize for Brown and Goldstein “for their discoveries concerning the regulation of cholesterol metabolism”. Drugs reduce LDL in those patients with the heterozygous form of the genetic disease and reduce incidences of early atheriosclerosis and subsequent heart attacks and strokes. But drugs are only moderately effective at best in the homozygous subjects, being unable to remove LDL and resulting in early-onset atherosclerosis and subsequent heart attacks and strokes. In these cases, LDL has to be removed by other means.

    “The severe atherosclerosis that develops in these patients without any other risk factors is formal proof that high levels of plasma cholesterol can produce atherosclerosis in humans” (see their Nobel lecture).

    So, anyone promoting that LDL is not a risk factor in heart disease needs to explain (with evidence): (1) why those with the heterozygous form of familial hypercholesterolaemia and no confounding factors related to “environment” suffer premature heart disease without cholesterol-lowering drugs; and (2) why those with the homozygous form and no confounding factors related to “environment” who have LDL removed do not suffer early onset atherosclerosis (and its ensuing complications) but those that don’t have LDL removed do suffer from early onset atherosclerosis and subsequent heart attacks and strokes, even in young children.

    [I would add that whether long-term use of statins is advisable by those who are low in the various heart disease/stroke risk factors is another issue entirely.]

    And yes, research continues, because epidemiological evidence does suggest LDL is not the whole story for those without the genetic predisposition to early onset of atherosclerosis (or even with it) and ensuing life-threatening conditions (but physicians and medical researchers know that), and that research does encompass carbohydrate intake. It doesn’t mean that high LDL is not a risk factor in heart disease and strokes.

    Like I’d suggest the IPCC reports and primary literature with regard to climate issues, I’d also suggest trawling PubMed rather than diet-promotion sites for information on LDL and heart attack/stroke risks, whether those diet-promotion-sites’ diet advice is good or not.

  42. #43 Lotharsson
    July 4, 2012

    Ah, yes, Joanne Nova, who thinks (a la Curtin) that GHGs cool the planet, and who claims she’ll fix significant errors in her work and then runs away when a simple and significant error is pointed out, and who makes a whole load of false claims and invalid inferences. When she claims something you might want to check it twice, ideally three times – and with people who actually know what they’re talking about.

    I mean, you have checked it thoroughly, right, pentaxZ? If she was wrong, given your shitty track record, how would you know?

    I mean, you still haven’t even answered my simple question about how you know any anthropogenic warming signal would be “microscopic”. Would have thought that was easy, given your apparently confident claim. Or were you merely bullshitting and hoping that people wouldn’t notice?

  43. #44 pentaxZ
    July 4, 2012

    Exactly proving my point 12.05 pm, lotharsson. Nice owngoal.

  44. #45 pentaxZ
    July 4, 2012

    P. Lewis
    A very, very simple explanation for you. A low carb/ high fat diet lowers the “bad” cholesterol and rises the “good”. Simple as that. And about “balanced”, what’s the point other than spreading the risk? We are mainly carnivores and should as such eat mainly animal food. Do you know about cows eating “balanced”? Or a lion? Or any other animal? They all eat what they are biological fitted to eat and so should we. My lab results are perfect, and guess what, I never eat any fruit, very little vegetables no starch what so ever, but meat and a lot of butter. Ain’t that a bich?

  45. #46 Lotharsson
    July 4, 2012

    Nice owngoal.

    Er, no. I was pointing out that your source has a well-evidenced reputation for getting it wrong, as do you, and asking you to provide some evidence that her assertions were right. I can start pointing out the false claims and unjustified inferences she makes in that article if you like, but I’m pretty sure that if I do, instead of retracting your claim that “alarmists” don’t deal with the evidence and instead attack the messenger, you’ll simply Gish Gallop to your next talking point.

    Speaking of using the Gish Gallop as an avoidance tactic, I see you still haven’t answered my question about how you know the anthropogenic effects “would be microscopic”. What’s the matter – you pulled that out of your arse and would really really really rather talk about something else now?

  46. #47 Jeff Harvey
    July 4, 2012

    Pentax, the correct notation should be ‘Joanne Nova my ass’. You apparently rely on wretched blogs for your information. No wonder your posts are so appallingly funny.

  47. #48 Jeff Harvey
    July 4, 2012

    “And as so typical for alarmistas, you always attack the messenger instead of the actual message”.

    Talks about calling the kettle black. Pure and utter hypocrisy. The climate change denial crowd have long smeared individual scientists – what Michael Mann refers to as the ‘Serengeti Strategy’ based on the hunting habits of lions in Africa – in an effort to give the impression that if they can successfully damn a few bonafides, then (1) all scientists sharing the views of the few ostracized ones will be similarly marginalized, and (2) in an attempt to warn other scientists that they will be targeted if they speak out. Pure intimidation. Its a tradition that goes way back with far right groups, corporate lobbyists and the like and it isn’t restricted to climate science. The wretched treatment dished out to Ben Santer, James Hansen and Michael Mann is a good example.

    PentaxZ is on another planet…

  48. #49 Marco
    July 4, 2012
  49. #50 Bernard J.
    July 4, 2012

    We are mainly carnivores and should as such eat mainly animal food.

    Erm, no.

    Our dentition, alimentary architecture, enzymology, and other biophysiochemical characteristics indicate that we are omnivorous. Carnivory is only a part of our evolutionary history, albeit an important recent one in terms of growing our brains and designing our hairless, marathon-adapted bodies.

    However, high animal protein diets are not fantastic for humans, especially those who haven’t adapted over the last several millenia to the limitations of their environments, as the Inuit, say, have. Where people survive on such it is usually in spite of the dietary composition, rather than thriving because of it.

    And Pentaxz, you might be proud of your highly proteinaceous diet, but it’ll harm you in the long run. Your kidneys won’t appreciate the ketogenic stress, and they’ll start to dissolve your skeleton as they attempt to rid the body of ketones. Your heart will be impacted, and there are a number of other sequelæ. But if you’re happy to take the gamble, don’t say that you weren’t warned when you eventually pay the price.

  50. #51 Wow
    July 4, 2012

    “The buzz word of today, “unprecedented””

    Yes, weather events that used to happen once every 80 years now happening three times in 10 years is unprecedented.

    “Unprecedented my ass.”

    No, we hear an awful lot from your ass.

  51. #52 P. Lewis
    July 4, 2012

    A very, very simple explanation for you. A low carb/ high fat diet lowers the “bad” cholesterol and rises the “good”…

    You have a real comprehension problem, don’t you pentaxZ.

    That comes through loud and clear with your ‘A low carb/ high fat diet lowers the “bad” cholesterol and rises the “good”’ statement.

    My post was not about diet (per se) but about your statements about cholesterol’s role (in atherosclerosis and consequent high risk of subsequent heart attacks and strokes). High LDL is a risk factor for heart attacks and strokes!

    How you get LDL down (drugs, diet, physical removal) is immaterial. If you have high LDL you have to get it down to lower the risk of developing heart disease and strokes.

    Now I don’t know what a low carb high fat diet does to LDL, HDL and their various measures and ratios without research. Your information may be right. I don’t care, as that wasn’t the issue.

    I do know that such a low carb high fat diet is good for those who are of the carbohydrate-resistant type metabolism and who would have a tendency to suffer from diabetes on a higher carb diet. But without determining what type your metabolism is, it’s not a good course to go down as it could lead to other problems.

    If you are suited to low carb high fat, then good for you. Not everyone will be.

    But it doesn’t alter that high LDL is a risk factor for heart attacks and strokes. You’ve said it yourself.

  52. #53 Lionel A
    July 4, 2012

    KarenMackSpotnick @ 11:31 am

    Lionel do yourself a favor and read Pauling’s research.

    Ah! Yes. The Great Linus Pauling, and that is not sarcasm on my part. Unfortunately another very clever man who was not always right, being human, in his latter years like Freeman Dyson and Francis Collins.

    He probably lost his way a little by associating with a certain Arthur B Robinson, yes this Arthur B. Robinson .

    As it happens I do follow that which goes on in the biological world and am familiar with the work of Linus.

    Of course you are an expert in epidemiological studies, no?

  53. #54 Lionel A
    July 4, 2012

    pentaxZ (with the faulty shutter) @ 1:13 pm

    A low carb/ high fat diet lowers the “bad” cholesterol and rises the “good”. Simple as that. And about “balanced”, what’s the point other than spreading the risk? We are mainly carnivores and should as such eat mainly animal food. Do you know about cows eating “balanced”? Or a lion? Or any other animal? They all eat what they are biological fitted to eat and so should we.

    The only true part in that other wise load of bollocks is the last bit (emphasised).

    As has been pointed out to you elsewhere the best diet is that which we each are evolved to obtain the maximum benefit and least harm from. Now this depends upon your genetic heritage, the culture of your antecedents. Thus the Inuit have evolved over the centuries to match the high fat, high protein diet.

    This is why we have people with lactose or glutton intolerance. We are now a polyglot species with many cultural lines in our ancestry. I would suggest finding copies of Jared Diamond’s ‘The Third Chimpanzee’ and ‘Guns, Germs & Steel’ for you to gain more perspective on this. ‘Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed’ would also be worth your time.

    But then reasoned argument based on experience is not for you eh!

  54. #55 P. Lewis
    July 4, 2012

    I’m very intolerant of gluttons! :-)

    On the Inuits: life expectancy is lower than for other Canadians, but I’m not sure of the reason why. Might be diet linked or it might not. Probably multifactorial.

  55. #56 Marco
    July 4, 2012

    Actually, Lionel, the fun part of Pauling’s association with Robinson is that the latter showed Pauling was wrong. Upon which Robinson was fired from Pauling’s institute…

    Pauling already was well into the vitamin-woo before aligning with Robinson, so I don’t think you can blame the latter.

  56. #57 Robert Murphy
    July 4, 2012

    .”A low carb/ high fat diet lowers the “bad” cholesterol and rises the “good””

    Only if your fats are mostly monounsaturated. The carbs themselves are not the issue. It also depends on your genetic background; some people simply can eat whatever they want and their cholesterol will be good, others try every combination and can’t control theirs. Most people are not like either.

    “We are mainly carnivores and should as such eat mainly animal food.”

    No we’re not. Just look at our teeth – if we we’re truly carnivores our teeth would not have the shape they do. We are omnivores, and while meat has certainly been an important part of the human diet for millenia, it isn’t a necessary part of it. My cats are carnivores, and need animal meat to survive. I don’t -though I am not a vegetarian. I could be.

    “Do you know about cows eating “balanced”? Or a lion?”
    Cow- obligate herbivore
    Lion – obligate carnivore

    We are neither (though I suspect we’d have a hard time living just on animal products).

    “Or any other animal?”

    Sure – look up omnivore.

    “They all eat what they are biological fitted to eat and so should we.”

    We are not biologically fitted to eat mostly animal products.

  57. #58 Bernard J.
    July 4, 2012

    We are neither (though I suspect we’d have a hard time living just on animal products).

    Humans are able to live solely on vegetable products much more successfully than solely on animal products. Of course, this requires some care (we are, after all, omnivores) with ensuring nutrient balance, especially during childhood, but the converse – of achieving such balance on an animal protein-only diet – is much more fraught. And all the more so for agrarian cultures.

  58. #59 Bernard J.
    July 4, 2012

    I have a few issues with some of the interpretations (especially in the tumour section), but the fundamental structure of the information here is a good summary for the lay person whose eyes may cross at the jargon of serious metabolic biochemistry:

    http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/the-dangers-of-a-high-protein-diet/the-problems-with-protein.html

  59. #60 Chris O'Neill
    July 4, 2012

    The Z-head:

    “I would say that no one claims that climate change isn’t happening.”

    Of course, the Z-heads claim there was one type of climate change that never happened, anything that looks like a hockeystick.

    The denialists deny climate change allright. Any climate change that looks like a hockeystick they deny lock, stock and barrel.

  60. #61 Mikem
    July 5, 2012

    pentaxZ, nobody including myself said cholesterol is always the cause of heart attacks. A HIGH level of it is a known RISK factor. I’ll repeat the keywords here: HIGH, and RISK.

    WTF is it with those of you who are generally anti-science that makes you continually misconstrue the context of “risk factors”. Or in fact the context of anything at all. What is it that makes you so hopelessly unable to see the big picture of anything?

    We get exactly the same never-ending crap over climate science too. Like the morons here who seem to think that if the planet is warming, it’s not allowed to actually rain, lest heavy rain disprove global warming. I mean, WTF?

    And you link to Corbyn? OMG that is hilarious. Is that the same Corbyn for whom his 2008 weather predictions were spectacularly wrong? Who says he can predict severe weather yet often fails to do so? Sure he’s right sometimes, but he’s also wrong sometimes. But of course when he talks about himself, he does the “psychic talks-to-the-dead” thing and only counts the hits while ignoring the misses.

    What about his claimed “prediction” of the Indonesian earthquake in Bandah Aceh? If you actually read what he wrote (and few people do), he predicted a quake “in the pacific ring” with a magnitude of “6.5 or greater”. So he gave himself a 1 in 3 chance of picking the correct day of such a quake by random chance alone, given that there are over 150 earthquakes of this magnitude in this huge geographical area every year! And the location didn’t even have to be precise. And people think this is some sort of forecasting miracle?

    Oh dear, pentaxZ, you’re really doing my head in.

  61. #62 bill
    July 5, 2012

    Um, much as I’d be happy to debate cholesterol all day – and if we’re pure carnivores, dear Pentax, how do you explain our dentition? – since you insist on hanging around could you answer some of the questions, please?

    Apparently you (singly and colectively) ‘never said it wasn’t warming’. So, is CO2 a greenhouse gas? How warm would you expect the Earth to be in its absence? If CO2 is a Greenhouse gas, could you explain the process whereby increasing its concentration in the atmosphere by over 40% fails to warm the planet? Then explain your hypothesis as to what is causing the warming you apparently don’t deny? How might this be suppressing the CO2 greenhouse effect? Are there carbon sinks we don’t know about? Where?

    PS All – ‘Glutton intolerant’ – I’d buy that T-shirt!

  62. #63 DarylD
    William Lamb's Town Down Under
    July 5, 2012

    Murdoch’s ” Daily Howler”, continues unabated, a propaganda war on the so called Carbon Tax.

    The wonders of the modern ‘Internets’, it allows one to fact check and rate the reliability of Murdoch Media Propaganda, as fast as his slaves shovel the “Horse Hockey” out the door.

    In the interim “Hot Times” link : – http://rabett.blogspot.com.au/2012/07/hot-times.html

  63. #64 Mikem
    July 5, 2012

    I think pentaxZ, just like Duff, Betula, and the others of similar ilk, have become greatly confused about their global warming stance ever since the “Great Sceptical Schism of 2011″, when the Berkley Earth project, supported and proclaimed by so many sceptics at the time as being the first truly independent analysis of global temperature records which was going to bust the scientific conspiracy wide open, found that the data is actually pretty accurate.

    The Great Schism has split the sceptics into two distinct groups: the “OMG the conspiracy is even deeper than we thought and they’ve implanted mind control devices in Muller’s head” group, and the “oh yeah well we always said it was actually warming, and we tried so valiantly to stop all the unfounded temperature-concocting conspiracy allegations, but heck, what can ya do?” group.

    While the former group is just batshit insane, the latter group are apparently content to shift the goalposts and say “oh duh, of course it’s warming, as we always maintained (truly we did), but it’s just natural”. But just as when they were all screaming of giant temperature-fudging conspiracies, they steadfastly refuse to provide any verifiable evidence that it’s natural, or even a serious hypothesis as to what the mechanisms of this natural cause might be which hasn’t already been conclusively shown to be rubbish. It’s just “the vibe”, I suppose.

    In short: same crap, yet another different day.

  64. #65 John
    July 5, 2012

    It’s a shame all the old comments are gone because I’d compiled a little list of every time Karenmackspot had claimed it wasn’t warming.

    Now Pentaxz says nobody ever said that.

    Weird.

    Bill, don’t expect Pentaxz to respond to your challenge to prove the anthropogenic factor is so small as to be irrelevant. He has previously asserted that whatever he believed that week was so self-evidently right that there is no point in debating us.

    :'(

  65. #66 bill
    July 5, 2012

    I don’t really expect Pentax to respond, nor any other Denier, for that matter.

    What I do want to point out for the benefit of any lurkers is that if challenged directly to clearly state their fundamental positions they all scatter like cockroaches when the kitchen light flicks on…

    They’re just wreckers. Empty vessels making lots and lots of noise…

  66. #67 Karen
    July 5, 2012

    I see Bird Brain Bill and Marco completely missed the mark, the conversation was about LDL cholesterol and I mentioned Linus Pauling, typical of them to go to google in an attempt to either discredit me or Pauling, and they come up with stuff about colds and cancer, Pffffttttt. They think that because Pauling had two failures this discredits his entire life’s work, I don’t think that either of you two even know anything about Pauling and his magnificent work.

    Lionel, I was referring to Pauling’s theories and studies that suggest that LDL cholesterol is produced in response to chronic scurvy, oh I am sure that the googleheads in here can find something to debunk this also.

    If remember, his studies also encompassed myocardial infarction, and….maybe flavonoid’s.

    anyway, good luck Lional

  67. #68 Bernard J.
    July 5, 2012

    I see Bird Brain Bill and Marco completely missed the mark, the conversation was about LDL cholesterol and I mentioned Linus Pauling, typical of them to go to google in an attempt to either discredit me or Pauling, and they come up with stuff about colds and cancer, Pffffttttt.

    This just shows that KarenMackSunspot transfers onto others that which he does himself. If he had any experience with Lionel and Marco he’d know that they are both well familiar with Pauling’s derailments.

    And no-one needs to resort to Google to discredit you – you’re so obviously ill-informed that anyone with a completed high school education could drive a truck through the holes in your arguments – blindfolded and handcuffed.

    They think that because Pauling had two failures this discredits his entire life’s work, I don’t think that either of you two even know anything about Pauling and his magnificent work.

    Again KMS has it arse-around. What Lionel and Marcus are saying is that Pauling’s genuinely worthy life’s work doesn’t mean that his excursion into woo are based in credibility.

    Of course, KMS wouldn’t understand the difference…

    If remember, his studies also encompassed myocardial infarction, and….maybe flavonoid’s.

    Leaving those mandatory punctuation catastrophes aside, I’m sure that it wasn’t very long since you googled Pauling yourself, although it doesn’t surprise me that you’ve forgotten what you read. I know for sure that you didn’t pick up anything medical from either tertiary study or from work.

    The only person who might possibly believe you is you.

  68. #69 Karen
    July 5, 2012

    barnterd, you once again prove that you are a low life, most likely calymmatobacterium.

    No, definitely calymmatobacterium

  69. #70 bill
    July 5, 2012

    You know what I was saying about empty vessels?… ^

  70. #71 Jeff Harvey
    July 5, 2012

    “…typical of them to go to google in an attempt to [either] discredit me…..”

    Wait a minute… how can you be discredited when you had no credits to begin with? From the beginning, ‘Karen’, your comments have been inane and without substance. So you are clearly giving yourself way too much credit for possessing any useful knowledge about anything that has been discussed thus far.

    Remedy: go away.

  71. #72 Bernard J.
    July 5, 2012

    It’s so easy to tell when KarenMackSuspot is cut…

    …he resorts to potty-mouth name-calling, but but with no other point.

    Heh, that describes quite a lot of his posts…

  72. #73 Karen
    July 5, 2012

    Hi Jeff ‘I love myself’ Harvey,

    I know you are sooooo smart, because you keep telling everyone.

    So could you please tell me where the “one hundred year” ice volume charts are for the Arctic, Antarctic & Greenland ?

    Oh, thankyou in advance Mr Wonderful :-D

  73. #74 Karen
    July 5, 2012

    Barnturd you dopey dung eater, you can’t read and assimilate, I wrote “Bird Brain Bill and Marco” and you came back with “If he had any experience with Lionel and Marco” and “Again KMS has it arse-around. What Lionel and Marcus are saying”

    start at the top phuckknuckle, sheeezzz what a loon you are barnterd.

    It’s also so easy to tell when barnturd is cut because the germ stammers

  74. #75 Marco
    July 5, 2012

    Karen, the only thing I googled was the link to quackwatch. I am quite well aware of Pauling’s woo when it comes to vitamin C. Apparently it was the wonder drug that solved everything. Too bad it isn’t, and that plenty of research shows it to be at best slightly beneficial in some cases, and at worst bad for your health to take in such large amounts as he proposed.

    But, and more importantly in this context, the link points out that a *pharmaceutical company* was until the 2000s the most important producer of vitamin C. The idea that the pharmaceutical industry actively tried to suppress Pauling’s findings is not based in reality, but rather a common complaint of the woo industry that does not want to do proper clinical trials like the pharmaceutical industry has to do. You will find upper-woo’ers like Matthias Rath (who has co-published with Pauling) making this claim, while raking in millions from selling snake oil.

  75. #76 bill
    July 5, 2012

    Your Tourettes playing up again?

    OK, back to business; is CO2 a greenhouse gas? Has it been warming? If not, what about BEST? If so, what’s causing it? If not CO2, what? What’s your evidence for climate sensitivity?

    Seriously, you clowns are worse than useless…

  76. #77 Karen
    July 5, 2012

    “We’re having in Argentina a series of Antarctic polar waves that has people shuddering. In Ushuaia an entire neighbourhood had to be evacuated because the cold froze water pipes and blocked natural gas valves. No heating, no cooking, streets with 2.5 metres (8 ft) of snow. In two weeks snowed more than an entire normal winter season.”

    GLOWBULL WARMING JUST AINT GLOBAL.

    lol

  77. #78 chek
    July 5, 2012

    So could you please tell me where the “one hundred year” ice volume charts are for the Arctic, Antarctic & Greenland ?

    Is this one of the Wattard’s latest memes, like an extension of Anthony the Big Fat Mustachioed Liar’s USS Skate at the North Pole photo lies? I suppose Anthony counts on those like KMS being too dumb to look up paleoclimatology and ice core records since the 1930’s.

    But then one could easily be forgiven for thinking Anthony’s purpose was to keep his dittoheads misinformed and ignorant – a strange goal for the alleged science blog of the year.

  78. #79 chek
    July 5, 2012

    In two weeks snowed more than an entire normal winter season

    What process do you expect might have put that amount of moisture into the atmosphere in order for it to fall down again, oh moronic one?

  79. #81 Karen
    July 5, 2012

    wet chek, if you boil your kettle and snow spurts outta the spout then it’s not really a kettle dear :)

  80. #82 Karen
    July 5, 2012

    and there’s more………………

    “Entre Ríos governor Sergio Urribarri said he had met with president Cristina Fernández de Kirchner to set out a diagnosis of the situation and plan short-to-medium term goals. He said around citrus 2,000 growers have been affected by the frosts, which impacts on 12,000 workers.

    “Mindful of the social dimensions of this situation, we are committed to managing this both at the provincial level and before the national authorities with the measures necessary to partner with the sector, which is suffering from the consequences of an unheard of phenomenon for this time of year,” Urribarri was quoted as saying.”

    “Frosts of -5°C (23°F) hit the departments of Feliciano, Federal, Federación, Concordia and Colón on Jun. 7, 8 and 9, registering a duration of 12 cold hours.

    The story reported the frosts affected 50,000 hectares of citrus fruit including oranges and mandarins, as well as lemons and grapefruit to a lesser extent.

    Entre Ríos Citrus Federation president Elvio Calgaro, told the website the damage done by the frosts was “enormous” and the industry would need to work with the government to move forward.

    He said on the affected land around 80% of crops were”

    http://atcitrus.com/english/noticia.asp?seccion=principales&id=1138

    So much for global warming. lol

  81. #83 Karen
    July 5, 2012

    “Earlier this week the Finnish Meteorological Instituted (FMI) forecasted wintry conditions that would bring snow and sleet to Finland’s far north.

    On Thursday night temperatures in Lapland fell below zero in many areas. The mercury fell to -0.6 degrees in Näkkäla in Enontekiö, while a reading of -0.5 degrees was recorded in Kilpisjärvi in Finland’s northwestern arm.

    Residents of southern Lapland also felt the chill, temperatures registered -0.5 degrees Thursday night.

    On Wednesday night snow covered fells in Saariselkä in the far north. The FMI says the freak snowfall will be a passing phenomenon as conditions are due to warm up over the weekend.”

    http://yle.fi/uutiset/cold_snap_chills_summer_in_lapland/6199852

    yeah yeah I know, the hot made it cold !

    lol

  82. #84 bill
    July 5, 2012

    C’mon, KMS – let’s go through the ritual: I’m going to ask you to answer the question, and you’re going to gob-up some more distracting – you hope – chum nuggets from the Deniosphere.

    This is because you are an extraordinarily pathetic and dreary wretch with a scatalogical obsession who can only outsource what you attempt, badly, to pass off as ‘thinking’.

    You have no idea of the issues, an insignificant intellect, and you are, in short, precisely the kind of pointless, stunted outcast who is willing to derail the future of humanity in order to attempt to gratify those puerile Libertarian fantasies that are the diminished and asocial’s pathetic revenge on the world.

    You are like some monstrous, bloated, blighted infant sat bawling at what he imagines is the epicentre of a complex and terrifyingly un-tameable world, where your ugly, Manichean defensive delusions only end up clanging humiliatingly to the ground, and who can only despise the learned and competent for casting his own inadequacies into such striking relief.

    Behold the Denier. This is what has poisoned the world…

  83. #85 Karen
    July 5, 2012

    Thankyou for your lovely compliment birdbrain, :)

    On June 2, Stockholm registered its coldest June day in 84 years, with the mercury rising to a maximum of six degrees Celsius (43 Fahrenheit).

    Temperatures have remained below average for the month, at just 13.3 degrees Celsius, compared with the usual 15.2 degrees, SMHI said.

    For the month of June, Stockholm usually has an average of 5.3 days with temperatures above 25 degrees, but this year the high for the month was just 21.6 degrees.

    That is only the second time since 1920 that the temperature has failed to hit 25 degrees in June in Sweden.

    And it would seem that more rain is en route for Sweden.

    “It looks like it will continue like this at least for the next two weeks,” said Martin Hedberg, head meteoro”

    http://www.thelocal.se/41662/20120627/

    Does snow spew out of your toaster birdbrain ?

  84. #86 bill
    July 5, 2012

    Sunshine, the only thing ‘lol’ing around here is your tongue in your slack-jawed mouth…

    The FMI says the freak snowfall will be a passing phenomenon as conditions are due to warm up over the weekend.

    And it would seem that more rain is en route for Sweden.

    Could you be more stupid?

  85. #87 Bernard J.
    July 5, 2012

    KarenMackSuspot says:

    Barnturd you dopey dung eater, you can’t read and assimilate, I wrote “Bird Brain Bill and Marco” and you came back with “If he had any experience with Lionel and Marco” and “Again KMS has it arse-around. What Lionel and Marcus are saying”

    Yeah, but I was referring to the fact that Lionel (July 4, 2:33 pm) and Marco (July 4, 3:19 pm) started the commentary about Pauling’s failings. Bill, as far as I can tell, only mentioned cholesterol once (12:23 am 5 July) on this page, and that was to say that he wasn’t bothered dwelling on the subject.

    I was tidying up after you – as usual.

    start at the top phuckknuckle, sheeezzz what a loon you are barnterd.

    Just in case you didn’t register the first time ’round, that’s what I was doing.

    It’s also so easy to tell when barnturd is cut because the germ stammers

    Yeah, I noticed that too. That’s what happens when one is talking to three year old twins in real life, and simultaneously to another, intellectual three year old online. Of course, I do my twins a disservice, because they’ve already been pegged as having skills two years in advance of their chronological age…

    If only you could match them, KMS, and demonstrate the understanding of a five year old.

  86. #88 Karen
    July 5, 2012

    Do you put your beer in the oven birdbrain ?

    “MELBOURNE is beginning to thaw after some of the coldest temperatures in almost two decades snap froze the city today.

    The mercury hit just 8.5 degrees Celsius in the city at 3.11pm – the lowest maximum temperature since 1995.

    Melbourne’s lowest temperature of 6.4 degrees was recorded at 2.34am.

    But the clearing rain and cloud allowed the temperature to creep up to 9.9C in the following hour, making it the coldest maximum in four years.

    A cocktail of sopping and windy conditions had brought the apparent temperature down to an icy 2C in the early afternoon.
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/melbournes-coldest-day-in-15-years/story-fn7x8me2-1226413654703

    TOWNSVILLE residents should keep rugged up, with the cold weather set to continue over the coming days.

    Hughenden experienced its coldest July day in 10 years yesterday, reaching minus 2C, while Richmond reached minus 1C.
    http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2012/07/05/344171_news.html

    gwowbull warming lol

  87. #89 Karen
    July 5, 2012

    “Yeah, I noticed that too. That’s what happens when one is talking to three year old twins in real life, and simultaneously to another, intellectual three year old online. Of course, I do my twins a disservice, because they’ve already been pegged as having skills two years in advance of their chronological age…”

    What sort of mother are you barnterd ? Those children should be well and truly tucked in for the night.

    I do find it amusing when a doting mother thinks their offspring is smarter or prettier than other children, lol, most often they look like monkeys and are dumber than dogshit.

    Does it run in the family barnturd ?

    Poor thing, you appear to have Harveyitis, lol

  88. #90 chek
    July 5, 2012

    OTOH Bill and Bernard, Karen McSpot is doing a fabulous job in demonstrating yer average grunt denier’s …. thinking, as it were.

  89. #92 Karen
    July 5, 2012

    like, wow, wow

    I suppose there is proof right there that we are still climbing out of the ice age.

  90. #93 John
    July 5, 2012

    “Nobody ever said it wasn’t warming.” – Pentaxz

  91. #94 lord_sidcup
    July 5, 2012

    One minute Karen informs us it is freezing in Argentina, Finland etc., the next Karen tells us we are climbing out of an ice age and that is why it is getting warmer. Like Pentax, Karen doesn’t actually have a point and her only intent is flooding this thread with time-wasting crap.

    Still, on the plus side Karen does provide us with a good archetype of the denier – angry, ill-informed, contradictory, and desperate.

  92. #95 Wow
    July 5, 2012

    Nope, we’re due to go in to one, Spots.

    You don’t know anything about anything, do you.

    You must be Henry’s Cat.

  93. #96 Wow
    July 5, 2012

    Well spotted too, John. Tampax should give sunspot a good telling off.

    Should be easy, just needs to turn around and walk to the next cubicle.

  94. #97 Lionel A
    July 5, 2012

    You must be Henry’s Cat.

    Or Schrödinger’s Kittens for the two faces.

  95. #98 Lionel A
    July 5, 2012

    Kraken repeated:

    “MELBOURNE is beginning to thaw after some of the coldest temperatures in almost two decades snap froze the city today.

    Now let me see, is not the Southern Hemisphere now in winter? Furthermore why do you think global warming is linked to climate change. Are you familiar with the notion of climates and their type variation.

    You see with global warming more stuff melts as the poles warm faster than elsewhere, this disrupts the normal flows in the Hadley, Polar and mid-latitude cells and by extension in the jet streams (I am using everyday terms here because I fear you will not grasp otherwise).

    Also the height of the tropopause is changing with an upset in the difference of same between tropics and mid-latitudes and mid-latitudes and polar.

    That more stuff at the poles is melting tends to chill the waters (WTF do you put ice in your drinks – ever heard of latent heat) whilst putting more moisture upstairs. This with the changing circulation patterns causes local climates to experience wider variations of whatever weather the climate produced.

    Therein is the link now between global warming and climate change, and climate change and weather.

    As Deke Andt wrote, ‘Climate trains the boxer weather throws the punches‘, and one could add that global warming adds the steroids. The oceans could shortly follow up with the sucker punch because there has been an awful lot of heat energy building up in those oceans, lookee here.

  96. #99 zoot
    July 5, 2012

    My lab results are perfect, and guess what, I never eat any fruit, very little vegetables no starch what so ever, but meat and a lot of butter.

    So, constipated physically as well as mentally.

  97. #100 Chris O'Neill
    July 5, 2012

    “the lowest maximum temperature since 1995.”

    Let me know when you get a lowest temperature since records began. Until then I’ll know “Karen” is braindead.

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