July 2012 Open Thread

Phew, looks the carbon tax has not returned Australia to the Stone Age.

Comments

  1. #1 luminous beauty
    July 5, 2012

    Karen, besides believing that the selective choice of some local weather is a useful proxy for climatological changes in mean global temperature, seems also to believe that the time of day in his/her/its locality is the same on the other side of the planet.

    Strange, that.

  2. #2 DarylD
    William Lamb's Town Down Under
    July 5, 2012

    As the climate changes, extreme weather isn’t that extreme any more!

    Last year was the 35th consecutive year since 1976 that the yearly global temperature was above average. Since 2000 we have had 11 of the 13 warmest years in 132 years and the patterns of global warming that scientists warned about – such as more droughts, sudden downpours, more widespread wildfires, volatile heat, violent storms and more frequent heatwaves – are all here now. This, say the scientists with increasing conviction, is what the early stages of global warming looks like.

    So how much more extreme weather does it take for governments and individuals to act, or for the oil companies to withdraw from the Arctic, or the media to link global warming with the events now being witnessed around the world? Must the sea boil, the Seine run dry, New York flood and the London Olympics be consumed by fire before countries are shocked into taking concerted action? The reality is that even as the world experiences increasing numbers of weather-related disasters and extreme events, climate change has dropped off the rich countries’ political and media agendas, and public concern is said to be waning – to the cheers of the sceptics and industry.

    Source link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/04/climate-changes-extreme-weather-us-heatwave

    Ah, to live in total ignorance, with one’s head cemented in the sands of denial, as the freak weather tornado blows one’s posterior away. Then and only then, the last final thought of a denialiti, will be “those evil scientists, who warned us in 1988, were right all along !”

    Or, as Bill McKibben would say about these current weather extremes “But if Senator Inhofe is right, we can all relax. It looks real, but it isn’t—it’s just nature trying to compete with James Cameron. So please don’t shout fire in the global 3-D theater. Stay cool. And get a big tub of popcorn—in this epic disaster flick we’re not even close to the finale.”

    …Ouch…………………………

  3. #3 ianam
    July 5, 2012

    If you research Linus Pauling, the two times Nobel Prize winner, then you will find that PentaxZ is correct.

    The remarkable thing about this bit of dumbassery, aside from the irrelevance of his Nobel Peace Prize for trying to eliminate nuclear weapons, is that, even if all of Pauling’s claims were true, it would be irrelevant because the other dumbass made claims about low carb diets, not vitamins or other components of Pauling’s orthomolecular theory.

    If remember, his studies also encompassed myocardial infarction, and….maybe flavonoid’s.

    You don’t remember, you fantasize. Or you conflate Pauling’s own work with that of the Pauling Institute.

    His research was largely covered up … do yourself a favor and read Pauling’s research.

    It’s a secret that’s been covered up by govmint and evil corporations (eh, what?) who would do anything to keep this under wraps … just google it!

    Hey, why do we call them dumbasses? It’s such a mystery.

  4. #4 ianam
    July 5, 2012

    Karen
    1:36 pm
    Those children should be well and truly tucked in for the night.

    Stupidity and beyond!

  5. #5 ianam
    July 5, 2012

    P.S.

    Does that put Karen in Australia … or somewhere else?

  6. #6 ianam
    July 5, 2012

    I suppose there is proof right there that we are still climbing out of the ice age.

    This will be the denier’s final refuge.

    And how exactly does that work, dumbass? What are the steps, ropes, pitons, etc. that the climate uses to climb?

  7. #7 Bernard J.
    July 5, 2012

    KarenMackSuspot says:

    What sort of mother are you barnterd ? Those children should be well and truly tucked in for the night.

    Luminous Beauty has already explained it to you, but long and bitter experience indicates that you need to be told repeatedly – and even then it’s extremely unlikely to take…

    It was just after 8:00 pm in my time zone, and the kids were in fact getting ready for bed after having just returned from visiting their grandmother. That was why there was much distraction (duh), and as LB notes it just goes to show how completely clue-unencumbered you are.

    It reminds me of how the WWWT crowd believed that the world was not warming, because they took a few photos of thermometers near air-conditioning units in the States…

  8. #8 ianam
    July 5, 2012

    Now let me see, is not the Southern Hemisphere now in winter?

    Dumbass might know if she lived there, rather than the Deep South.

  9. #9 Bernard J.
    July 5, 2012

    KarenMackSunspot’s mangling of time calculations really is a reflection of the climate change denialism approach to anything that involves numbers…

    “…make it up, and if it suits my belief system and/or my desires, it must be true”.

  10. #10 ianam
    July 5, 2012

    GLOWBULL WARMING JUST AINT GLOBAL.

    That’s exactly right, dumbass. Global warming means that the globe is warming, not that warmth is global.

  11. #11 Bernard J.
    July 5, 2012
    Now let me see, is not the Southern Hemisphere now in winter?

    Dumbass might know if she lived there, rather than the Deep South.

    The same point applies to his fixation with the Argentinian sites, which are 30 degrees and more south of the equator.

    Of course, Lapland isn’t, but then it’s rather close to the North pole, so cold temperatures there aren’t surprising at any time of the year. Heck, as I noted in the June open thread, until the last decade or two Christmas snow was not unknown on the mountains half an hour away from where I live, and that’s in a southern summer in a location not even halfway to the South Pole.

    I think that KMS must have had an intellectomy at birth. Either that, or it was resorbed in an unsuccessful contest with a hydatidiform mole.

  12. #12 ianam
    July 5, 2012

    I never eat any fruit, very little vegetables no starch what so ever, but meat and a lot of butter.

    Excellent. Do keep that up!

  13. #13 ianam
    July 5, 2012

    P.S. What would Linus Pauling have thought of such a diet? Perhaps the one dumbass can explain the cause of scurvy to the other dumbass.

  14. #14 Lionel A
    July 5, 2012

    Perhaps the one dumbass can explain the cause of scurvy to the other dumbass.

    Well having spent much time in the RN I could tell the dumbasses why. Heck, the yanks called us ‘limeys’, now that is a big clue.

  15. #15 DarylD
    William Lamb's Town Down Under
    July 5, 2012

    Ah, good to see Betty/Karenmacksunspot/oldduffer and panties in a twist Z, still slugging away at the old cherry picking doublethink game of denial, spreading the usual easily debunked bull dust around.

    “The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them… To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies – all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth.”

    Definition courtesy of Andrew D @ Tamino about the usual it’s cooling canard or zero sum posted at “Watthasnotalotofbrains”.

    link: http://tamino.wordpress.com/2012/07/04/sum-fun/#more-5251

    Such is life.

    Cheers ;)

  16. #16 bill
    July 6, 2012

    I never eat any fruit, very little vegetables no starch what so ever, but meat and a lot of butter.

    KMS (KrankMagneticServices) continues to demonstrate the theory of crank-magnetism to perfection.

    Being unable to hold in mind an awareness of global timezones is noteworthy, even in the shadowy intellectual twilight that is Denial.

    So, we can safely take it that CO2 is not a greenhouse gas, and it isn’t warming.

    Actually, thinking about your extraordinary dietary advice again, I have another question; do we share a common ancestor with the other apes, ‘Karen’? Please do answer; I’m sure we’d all like to know.

    I note a few proposals floating around that the lunar-lunar-Right faction of Denial – let’s just call them the SkyDragons – has had its day and should simply be put out to pasture, quarantined into their own threads where they can vapourise at will without troubling passersby. Couldn’t come soon enough, to my mind.

  17. #17 Karen
    July 6, 2012

    Barnturd J.
    July 5, 4:51 pm
    ” It’s also so easy to tell when barnturd is cut because the germ stammers

    Yeah, I noticed that too. That’s what happens when one is talking to three year old twins in real life, and simultaneously to another, intellectual three year old online. ”

    but then………

    Bernard J.
    July 5, 4:51 pm
    “t was just after 8:00 pm in my time zone, and the kids were in fact getting ready for bed after having just returned from visiting their grandmother. That was why there was much distraction (duh), and as LB notes it just goes to show how completely clue-unencumbered you are.”

    So barnturd either you dwell in the Indian ocean or you are lying again !

    Given that you have previously stated that you live in Australia even the dumbo’s in here could work out from your post time that you were not in Australia at 8.00 pm your time,

  18. #18 Karen
    July 6, 2012

    Historical Palmer Drought Indices
    Palmer Drought Severity Index
    June 2012

    http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/temp-and-precip/drought/historical-palmers.php?index=pdsi&month=6&beg_year=2012&end_year=2012&submitted=Submit

    Historical Palmer Drought Indices
    Palmer Drought Severity Index
    June 1934

    http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/temp-and-precip/drought/historical-palmers.php?index=pdsi&month%5B%5D=6&beg_year=1934&end_year=1934&submitted=Submit

    Sooooo……………numpties, why all the arm waving apocalyptic frenzy ?

    Now who is going to supply me with a link to the “100 year ice volume” charts for the Arctic, Antarctica and lets not forget Greenland ?

  19. #19 John
    July 6, 2012

    Karen, I thought it was cooling. How could there be droughts?

  20. #20 Karen
    July 6, 2012

    little johny maybe you are correct :)

    South Pole New Temperature Record
    Posted: 2012-06-18

    On June 11, 2012 the temperature at South Pole Station in Antarctica was -73.8°C/-100.8°F.

    This broke the previous minimum temperature record of -73.3°C/-99.9°F set in 1966.

    http://amrc.ssec.wisc.edu/news/index.php?id=41

  21. #21 John
    July 6, 2012

    Karen, I’m sure the people suffering from the extreme drought in the US (where over 3,000 heat records were set last month) will be heartened by a cold day in winter in Antarctica.

    I missed have missed the memo that there were supposed to be no more cold days in Antarctica by 2012. How careless of me.

    Isn’t it funny how those deniers who claimed that cold weather during winter in the US was proof AGW was a hoax are strangely silent on all this hot weather that proves, by their own argument, it is real.

    Oh, wait, no! A single cold record in Antarctica (against 3,000 heat records in the US) proved me wrong! Seriously – this goes up there with Duff’s “I don’t care one way or the other but ariel photographs of New Zealand 70 years ago prove no sea level rise!” for Worst Argument Ever.

  22. #22 Karen
    July 6, 2012

    Where do you live little johny ?

    I live in this cold country http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/awap/temp/index.jsp?colour=colour&time=latest&step=0&map=minanom&period=6month&area=nat which is a bit to the left of where berntard dwells.

    As you can see there is no GLOWBULL warming here, even prior to the breathing tax :)

  23. #23 Karen
    July 6, 2012

    And look at this little johny.
    http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/awap/ndvi/index.jsp?colour=colour&time=latest&step=0&map=ndvianomsd&period=6month&area=nat

    Normalised Difference Vegetation Index (NDVI)

    The Normalised Difference Vegetation Index (NDVI) grids and maps are derived from satellite data. The data provides an overview of the status and dynamics of vegetation across Australia, providing a measure the amount of live green vegetation. The satellite data comes from the Advanced Very High Resolution Radiometer (AVHRR) instruments on board the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) series of satellites that are operated by the US (http://noaasis.noaa.gov/NOAASIS/ml/avhrr.html).

    See, glowbull warming isn’t global. lol

    oppppppssssss, I’d better fix this typo before barnturd try’s to tease me again lol

    “which is a bit to the RIGHT of where berntard dwells.”

  24. #24 ianam
    July 6, 2012

    glowbull warming isn’t global

    Again (and again and again …) you’re too stupid to understand what “global warming” means.

  25. #25 Chris O'Neill
    July 6, 2012

    http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/awap/temp/index.jsp?colour=colour&time=latest&step=0&map=minanom&period=6month&area=nat

    Gee, most of Australia is cooler during a La Nina. Who said the braindead weren’t useful for something?

  26. #26 DarylD
    William Lamb's Town Down Under
    July 6, 2012

    Ah, Karenmackloop an interesting form of cherry picking you have there.

    Now, let me look at my handy way back cotton candy cherry picking machine. This tells me “Amundsen Scott Station” is actually warmer than higher altitude Vostok Station, in all temperature readings. And yes, satellite data, since 1973, shows that the Antarctic continent is also warming up as well as it’s northern opposite number

    Surprise, surprise, in the summer midnight sun, on December 25th, 2011, Amundsen Scott station recorded an all time record high, since record keeping began in 1956/7.

    You see, two can play your silly stoopid game of totally ignore the big picture!

    But then again, a wise person would check the big picture of the satellite called GRACE data acquisition database. Here, we can clearly see that since 2002, both the East and West Antarctic regions, are consistently losing ice mass with accelerating trends.

    link: http://www.skepticalscience.com/Antarctica-absolute-temperatures-too-cold-ice-loss.htm

    Still afraid of the big picture , are we?

    Yawn, just another boring troll doublethink episode, of much ado, about absolutely nothing ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

  27. #27 John
    July 6, 2012

    Karen, why do you deny weather and reigional variations?

  28. #28 John
    July 6, 2012

    Also Karen, can you point me to the bit in the IPCC Ar4 that says cold wasn’t supposed to exist by 2012?

  29. #29 Mel
    July 6, 2012

    Karen sounds like Joe Cambria aka “jc” “s brid” “ar” “pessimist” etc etc etc Sadly this particular character gets a bee in his bonnet about Tim Lambert every now and then and makes a ruckus at various blogs. I could be wrong but as a long time “Joe Watcher” I reckon the wording sounds familiar.

  30. #30 zoot
    July 6, 2012

    “I live in this cold country http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/awap/temp/index.jsp?colour=colour&time=latest&step=0&map=minanom&period=6month&area=nat
    Gee that’s funny – I, like most Australians, live in the bit that has an anomaly of +1 degree C (during a La Nina). Tell me again about no warming?

  31. #31 zoot
    July 6, 2012
  32. #32 Bernard J.
    July 6, 2012

    So barnturd either you dwell in the Indian ocean or you are lying again !

    Um, wrong again Sunspot (I’m not even going to bother with listing the other socks when your punctuation disability manifests so blatantly).

    Take, for example, the time-stamp of the post where I explained to you the issue of time zones – it was “July 5, 4:51 pm”. My computer’s time, which is not more than a minute or so out, said 2:49 am 6 July. I know, because I checked it after I posted, just to see what the time difference was. (And yes, I am well-known for being a night-owl…)

    So, work it out. If I post at “July 5, 10:07 am” by the blog’s clock, what time would it be by my computer’s clock?

    Is this really so difficult for you to calculate?

    For bonus points, can you tell us to which time zone the blog currently appears to be set?

    Given that you have previously stated that you live in Australia even the dumbo’s [sic] in here could work out from your post time that you were not in Australia at 8.00 pm your time,

    I’m in the GMT + 10 time zone, Einstein. East coast of Australia.

    You need to take off your shoes and pull your trousers down to count to 21, don’t you?

    Idiot.

  33. #33 wow
    July 6, 2012

    20.5, Bernard.

  34. #34 Bernard J.
    July 6, 2012

    Wow, I always admit to my mistakes…

    You are correct.

  35. #35 Karen
    July 6, 2012

    Bernard J.
    8:46 am

    Wow, I always admit to my mistakes…

    You have that brown stuff dripping off your chin again barnturd, no doubt your shadow propels it out the other end also.

  36. #36 Bernard J.
    July 6, 2012

    So, KarenMackSunspot, if I post at “July 5, 10:07 am” by the blog’s clock, what time would it be by my computer’s clock?

    BTW, it says 7:39 pm now…

  37. #37 bill
    July 6, 2012

    KMS, I notice you didn’t answer my question about our ancestors; if you go far enough back are they the same as the chimpanzees’, or not?

    I realise you cannot be the greatest loon on the net while GB still dwells thereon, but I’m beginning to think you may well be second…

  38. #38 Karen
    July 6, 2012

    Here is the post in question, what time was it barnturd

    Bernard J.
    July 5, 11:07 am

    It’s so easy to tell when KarenMackSuspot is cut…

    …he resorts to potty-mouth name-calling, but but with no other point.

    Heh, that describes quite a lot of his posts…

  39. #39 P. Lewis
    July 6, 2012

    I would like to point out that whatever the length of the appendage being used to aid in counting it will still count as an integer.

    Also, one shouldn’t presume that KMS is what might be considered a “normal” human form: possibilities include polydactyly and/or gender reassignment, and there may also be added misfortune from one or more accidents in which appendages have been removed.

    All of these possibilities impact on how much aid KMS can obtain in counting using available digits/appendages.

    The greatest misfortune, however, is being blessed with a neuron count that does not equal or exceed the total cell count of Amoeba proteus.

    Actually, if KMS were an amoeba, then in theory any number of pseudopodia could be called upon, but then I doubt whether such a creature could use the extra facilities to count anyway.

  40. #40 Bernard J.
    July 6, 2012

    KarenMackSunspot, at 10:02 am on 6 June:

    Here is the post in question, what time was it barnturd

    Erm, the whole point of this exchange was your offence that I referred to Lionel A’s and Marco’s commentary on Pauling, rather than Bill and Marco, with a supplementary inability to deal with a repetition of the word ‘but’.

    That exchange occurred at exactly the time of day I told you, in the hour when I was putting and reputting three tired and circus-hyped children to bed (including twins, before you become confused about those numbers). I find it highly entertaining that you not only can’t let go of such triviality, but that you persist in digging yourself deeper into the hole encompassing your inability to convert between time zones.

    Seriously, you’re looking so stupid that your only way to avoid perpetual humiliation will be to spawn a new sock… except that your language skills are so idiosyncratically illiterate that we’ll pick the next incarnation too.

    Oh, and do consider seeing a specialist about your coprolalia. I suspect that you’re well into ‘definite treatment’ territory.

  41. #41 Bernard J.
    July 6, 2012

    Just to refresh that compromised memory of your, KMS, if I post at “July 5, 10:07 am” by the blog’s clock, what time would it be by my computer’s clock?

    And if I post at “July 5, 11:07 am” by the blog’s clock, what time would it be by my computer’s clock?

  42. #42 Bernard J.
    July 6, 2012

    I’ll give you a hint – my children went to bed about an hour ago…

  43. #43 Karen
    July 6, 2012

    Bernard J.
    10:40 am
    “And if I post at “July 5, 11:07 am” by the blog’s clock, what time would it be by my computer’s clock?”

    spit it out barnturd, it wasn’t 8.00pm

    stop trying to twist your way out of admitting you were wrong

  44. #44 Lionel A
    July 6, 2012

    Well a months rainfall in a day is forecast for parts of Britain today.

    Why do you think this is happening KrakenMacSpotnick?

    This song was way ahead of its time, sorry about the screaming teens. I fell in love with that voice back then, enough to buy vinyl. Sad I know but in my defence I was at that silly romantic mid too late teen age. Judith Durham of Australia’s ‘New Seekers’ had a cracking voice too.

  45. #45 Karen
    July 6, 2012

    “Why do you think this is happening KrakenMacSpotnick?”

    Cosmic rays Lionel, nice song :)

  46. #46 Lionel A
    July 6, 2012

    Cosmic rays Lionel

    Explain without woo-woo science.

  47. #47 Karen
    July 6, 2012

    Lionel there is and old saying.

    “It doesn’t rain then it pours”

  48. #48 Wow
    July 6, 2012

    That’s not the old saying.

    Seems you’re incompetent far more widely than anyone ever suspected.

    And the actual old saying is a non-sequitor.

  49. #49 Karen
    July 6, 2012

    I see that barnturd thinks that if she keeps her head buried in the toilet long enough then she may not have to admit that she was wrong again.

  50. #50 chek
    July 6, 2012

    Speaking of admitting you’re wrong Karen McSpot, can we get back to how the amount of moisture that fell as a record amount of snow you were braying about yesterday found its way into the atmosphere.

    And no, “cosmic rays” didn’t put it there.

  51. #51 Karen
    July 6, 2012

    wet chek, are you going to attempt to use your esoteric AGW voodoo nonsense to attribute to a natural weather pattern ?

    I’m still waiting on the links to the 100 yr ice volume charts, I know they must be around somewhere?

  52. #52 chek
    July 6, 2012

    Come now Karen, you had the smarts yesterday to use the kettle analogy to vaporise the water, I’m sure that even your blatant and proudly worn stupidity won’t prevent extending the analogy one little baby step further.

  53. #53 Karen
    July 6, 2012

    wet chek that was a little conversation about the new alarmist thermodynamic phenomenon of hot things making other things cold, you can believe it if makes you cozy.

  54. #54 chek
    July 6, 2012

    No, what is at issue firstly is how the water vapour got into the atmosphere – not what happened to it afterwards. We’re taking teeny-tiny baby steps here, one thing at a time remember.

    So – great start with you coming up with the kettle idea. Now how do you suppose that a similar process might happen in the oceans where precipitation originates from (bearing in mind that there aren’t any kettles big enough)?

  55. #55 Wow
    July 6, 2012

    He didn’t ask how google search results explain it, he asked how YOU explain it.

    Why is it deniers have such trouble reading english?

  56. #56 Hasis
    July 6, 2012

    Well that’s a shame. This morning, for the first time in many years I noticed that Deltoid had dropped off my iGoggle front page and when I popped back in to check if my fears for why this was so were well founded, I realised they were.

    Do you know, I got back from the RGS conf in Edinburgh last night and over 3 days of fascinating sessions there was not one single relevant paper [yes I admit there are some weird and wonderful topics that fit under the umbrella term of geography) presented that had an AGW ‘septical’ tone; not one.

    Guys, we’ve got more important things to do than argue with these clowns!

  57. #57 bill
    July 6, 2012

    I agree. But we seem to be discovering depths of Stupid hitherto unexpected.

    Given your bizarre notions of a suitable human diet, KMS, I feel perfectly entitled to ask; did we evolve from a common ancestor of the other Apes?

  58. #58 Karen
    July 6, 2012

    Wow
    12:23 pm

    what are you talking about ?

  59. #59 lord_sidcup
    July 6, 2012

    On March 27at 9:43 am Karen the Credulous posted:

    Yes science is moving on.

    “Current theories of the causes and impact of global warming have been thrown into question by a new study which shows that during medieval times the whole of the planet heated up.

    It then cooled down naturally and there was even a ‘mini ice age’.

    A team of scientists led by geochemist Zunli Lu from Syracuse University in New York state, has found that contrary to the ‘consensus’, the ‘Medieval Warm Period’ approximately 500 to 1,000 years ago wasn’t just confined to Europe.

    In fact, it extended all the way down to Antarctica – which means that the Earth has already experience global warming without the aid of human CO2 emissions.””

    3 months on and the newspaper that first published this claim (UK denier organ The Daily Fail) retracts the story fearing a Press Complaints Commission ruling:

    http://pcc.org.uk/news/index.html?article=Nzg5Nw

  60. #60 lord_sidcup
    July 6, 2012

    All wanted to prove, Karen, is that you are a credulous nincompoop. Job done.

  61. #61 Wow
    July 6, 2012

    12:56

    Precise proof of your problem: your inability to read english.

  62. #62 John
    July 6, 2012

    In the past 24 hours there has been 8,790 articles published about the US heatwave, thereby proving the existence of AGW as per Karenmackspot’s argument that weather is climate.

  63. #63 Bernard J.
    July 6, 2012

    I see that barnturd thinks that if she keeps her head buried in the toilet long enough then she may not have to admit that she was wrong again.

    Really? This is all that you can come up with? You can’t answer my simple questions, questions that a junior high school kid could ace?

    How sad.

    At 9:47 am 6 July I noted that my computer’s time was 7:39 pm. Given that NG’s clock seems to be a bit off (I set my computer to World Clock about a week ago), that means that the blog’s time is 10 hours behind my time. Given that I am GMT + 10, that would indicate that the blog is currently on GMT + 0. In other words, London time.

    If I post here and it says “July 5, 10:07 am”, what time and date is it in my time zone?

    I’ll give you a clue – I’m not wrong, and you have been in every instance of comment on this matter to date.

    You might as well admit that you’ve fucked up (as usual), KMS, otherwise you’ll give yourself an aneurysm. Of course, you may already have a history of such – it could possibly explain the coprolalia.

  64. #64 Betula
    July 6, 2012

    Conspiracy Alert! Conspiracy Alert!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQI1Fvp6rBw&feature=related

    “An annual lump sum payment by the super-rich is one of a host of measures including a tax on carbon dioxide emissions, currency exchanges or financial transactions proposed in a UN report that accuses wealthy nations of breaking promises to step up aid for the less fortunate.”

    “tax of $25 per tonne on carbon dioxide emissions would raise about $250 billion. It could be collected by national governments, but allocated to international cooperation.”

    That’s right folks, only 2 1/2 years left to achieve the Millenium Developement Goals and spread that wealth….

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/un-calls-billionaires-tax-help-worlds-poor-211640656.html

  65. #65 John
    July 6, 2012

    Betula hates the poor.

  66. #66 Wow
    July 6, 2012

    Unless they can exploit them.

    Either as fodder or as emotional blackmail, whatever gets the bennies.

  67. #67 Betula
    July 6, 2012

    John,
    Honest, I didn’t know you were poor.

  68. #68 John
    July 6, 2012

    I apologise for hurting you Betula, I didn’t realise you were so sensitive on being called out for your ideological and hate-based denial of science.

  69. #69 Wow
    July 6, 2012

    Shame on you, John.

    You should be more like Betty and her friends and call Betty “asswipe” or similar.

  70. #70 Betula
    July 6, 2012

    “I apologise for hurting you Betula, I didn’t realise you were so sensitive on being called out for your ideological and hate-based denial of science”

    I’m hurt because you’re poor? No, but the fact that you believe that, and relate it to a denial of science, could be one of the reasons you are poor…tough to make it in this world with that logic.
    Anyhow, what does your being poor and delusional have to do with the Millenium Developement Goals and spreading the wealth under the guise of a carbon tax? Did you read the conspiratorial article? Perhaps you should try reading it after your daily medication….

  71. #71 Betula
    July 6, 2012

    “You should be more like Betty and her friends and call Betty “asswipe” or similar”

    I don’t use that word Wow. Besides, you don’t need wiping, you’re just fine the way you are…

  72. #72 Betula
    July 6, 2012

    I see the attempt here is to distract fom this article, so I’ll just post it again…

    “An annual lump sum payment by the super-rich is one of a host of measures including a tax on carbon dioxide emissions, currency exchanges or financial transactions proposed in a UN report that accuses wealthy nations of breaking promises to step up aid for the less fortunate.”

    “tax of $25 per tonne on carbon dioxide emissions would raise about $250 billion. It could be collected by national governments, but allocated to international cooperation.”

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/un-calls-billionaires-tax-help-worlds-poor-211640656.html

  73. #73 wow
    July 6, 2012

    You use worse words, Betty. And you condone their use by others of your flock.

  74. #74 chek
    July 6, 2012

    I see the attempt here is for Betty to distract from Karen MacSpot’s learning experience with a dumber-than-grade school outrage over global economics.

    How come the trolls are always trying to shut down the discussion? When it’s not going their way.

  75. #75 wow
    July 6, 2012

    What is your problem with people who have plenty giving up money they’ll never miss?

    And we already know that those most culpable for the problem are shirking personal responsibility.

  76. #76 FrankD
    July 6, 2012

    Yes, Karen (2:12 am), lets not forget Greenland. Greenland’s increase or decrease depends on several factors, but for this exercise we can break these down into Surface Mass Balance changes (preciptation less runoff) and “everything else” (all other processes that affect the mass of the Greenland ice sheet).

    Here is a paper with the century-scale Surface Mass Balance after: http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2011/2011JD016387.shtml

    It’s behind a paywall, but if you look at the images in the freely available section (so much easier than reading all those difficult words and numbers), figures 7 and 8 give the SMB over the last century: 200 km^3 per year worse than it was 100 years ago. This paper builds on a 2007 paper by noted almost-a-denier Pat Michaels, which could not escape the conclusion that “If melt trend continues, it will soon exceed any melt during the past 226 years”. And guess what – it has continued! (http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/reportcard/greenland_ice_sheet.html see figure HTC19, about 3/4s of the way down).

    Now, Karen, we know from your flapping about Svalbard that you think -1 + -1 = 0, but even someone as mathematically challenged as you can work out the other half of this equation (the “everything else”). It’s quite simple to show from the data in these two links that iceberg calving etc has increase by 50% over the last century – from around 500 km^3 per year to ~750 km^3 per year.

    So you have the details you wanted, for Greenland at least, what was the point of the demand again? Are you going to show us how declining surface mass balance + increased loss to icebergs = no change, like you did with your special “Svalbard maths”?

    BTW – you being an expert on Arctic ice and all – whats your explanation for the current state of Arctic Sea Ice area? I mean, when it was at a 2-year high you were sure it disproved AGW. So, now its at the lowest ever for this date, that proves…?

  77. #77 Betula
    July 6, 2012

    Wow…

    “You use worse words, Betty. And you condone their use by others of your flock”

    I like the examples you use to back up your statement….the amount of time you spent researching all the details is nothing short of amazing.

    Oh, by the way, have you spent any time researching the latest conspiracy theory?

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/un-calls-billionaires-tax-help-worlds-poor-211640656.html

  78. #78 wow
    July 6, 2012

    Why don’t you try making some sense, Betty.

    You can’t ask us to do ALL your thinking. Try some for yourself.

  79. #79 Richard Simons
    July 6, 2012

    Ah, Betula, I see you are back again to do your sniping. I’ll quote part of my last comment on the previous open thread, in case you missed it.

    You’ve denied saying that climate change is not happening, yet you jeer at any evidence people present that indicates that climate change is taking place.
    I think you are that worst kind of denier, the coward who avoids ever clearly stating their opinions on climate change because they know they will not be able to support them with any kind of evidence.

    So come on, man! Show a bit of guts instead of avoiding the issue and being perpetually snarky about others. Do you or don’t you think that climate change due to human activity is taking place? Do you or don’t you think that it may have harmful repercussions for society? What has prompted you to reach these conclusions? Or are you going to run away again, just to snipe again in another week or two?

  80. #80 chek
    July 6, 2012

    But you see Richard, Betty is about avoidance, then popping up again a while later with nuggets like: ““tax of $25 per tonne on carbon dioxide emissions would raise about $250 billion. It could be collected by national governments, but allocated to international cooperation.”

    Now what you have to remember is that to Betty, earning $17k a year performing his thankless task in a call centre or whatever, $250 billion sounds like more than God has in his high-yield savings account. but In actual fact, it’s about a third of what the global economy was expected to spend on cosmetics in 2012:

    But then, Betty and clinical paranoids like KMS are pretty much what’s leftover who are susceptible to being targeted and used by the likes of Tillerson and his team.

  81. #81 Lotharsson
    July 7, 2012

    While we’re talking about denialists who won’t substantiate their claims, let me repeat:

    I see you still haven’t answered my question about how you know the anthropogenic effects “would be microscopic”.

    Come on, pentaxZ. You were so certain when you first said it, and you’re fond of claiming you have the facts on your side and the “opposition” is merely indulging in fact-free groupthink. Should be really easy then, right? Simply point out the overwhelmingly convincing evidentiary basis for your claim…

    …or should we take your silence as an admission that you can’t defend it on that basis?

  82. #82 ianam
    July 7, 2012

    Those women who <a href="http://www.onewater.org/stories/story/walking_for_water_an_exhausting_job_that_never_ends/&quot;walk miles for water could all be corporate CEOs if they weren’t so lazy.

  83. #83 ianam
    July 7, 2012

    Anyhow, what does your being poor and delusional have to do with the Millenium Developement Goals and spreading the wealth under the guise of a carbon tax? Did you read the conspiratorial article?

    I did and not being a dishonest sociopathic imbecile like Betula I know that it does not say or imply “under the guise of”. Betula is too stupid and too dishonest to recognize that one things can have two effects. Although, given the alarmist predictions of the deniers, you would think that a carbon tax would make everything more expensive for everyone — if, that is, you had any reason to expect consistency from them. And we have had this conversation before, so I know that Betula will not stop lying about this and that his lies won’t cause us to believe a falsehood. And, of course, his whining about people creating a distraction by not responding to his stupid distraction is just more of his incessant dishonesty and hypocrisy.

  84. #84 ianam
    July 7, 2012

    Should be really easy then, right?

    It’s “just plain stupid” to think otherwise because CO2 is such a small proportion of the atmosphere/Earth’s mass/universe/multiverse. “To believe that small things can have big effects “is just redicoulus”, you silly science person.

  85. #85 ianam
    July 7, 2012

    BTW, if anyone here has any hope for humanity, read the comments on Betula’s link and then give it up.

  86. #86 Trev
    Adelaide
    July 7, 2012

    Can anyone with some background in Physics/Chemistry/Maths come up with a single credible piece of evidence that 1. doesn’t confuse “climate” with “weather” and 2. is at odds with the notion that the planet is warming because of increasing concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere? I’m asking if those who know what they’re talking about can find any evidence at all that gives them pause for thought.

  87. #87 John
    July 7, 2012

    Shorter Betula:

    1. Global warming harms the third world
    2. Aid from rich countries who caused the warming is needed to minimise harm
    3. Aid is wrong and poor people deserve to be poor
    4. Therefore global warming is a hoax

    So yes, your ideological views are directly related to your denial of science.

  88. #88 John
    July 7, 2012

    Unfortunately ClimateWiki’s attempt at deconstructing SkS seems to have ground to a halt. Perhaps some of our house deniers can fill in the gaps? Your scientific views are certainly contradictory enough. Pentaxz can write the “it’s warming but it’s not us” page, Karenmackspot can write the “it’s cooling” page and Betula can write nothing because he has nothing but empty jeering at science based on his ideology and, frankly, isn’t capable of writing a halfway decent rebuttal to anything because he simply doesn’t have the capacity or ability.

  89. #89 Karen
    July 7, 2012

    FrankD
    July 6, 5:46 pm

    “Yes, Karen (2:12 am), lets not forget Greenland. Greenland’s increase or decrease depends on several factors, ”

    Here is some info for you FrankD

    http://www.climate4you.com/images/GISP2%20TemperatureSince10700%20BP%20with%20CO2%20from%20EPICA%20DomeC.gif

    That graph totally destroys the CO2 fairytale. lol

  90. #90 Karen
    July 7, 2012

    And this graph demonstrates clearly (even for the dumbo’s in here) that GLOWBULL warming is not global.

    http://www.climate4you.com/images/MSU%20UAH%20TropicsAndExtratropicsMonthlyTempSince1979%20With37monthRunningAverage.gif

    See you silly boys (and barnturd) the little intsy tinsy idy biddy tiny wee little bit of warming that you all are so petrified about http://www.drroyspencer.com/2012/07/uah-global-temperature-update-for-june-2012-0-37-deg-c/ is because of the warmer weather up north

    The global average lower tropospheric temperature anomaly for June +0.37 °C

    PPPFFfffffffffttttttttttttttttt lol

  91. #91 bill
    July 7, 2012

    ‘Karen’ is a Kreationist. And a SkyDragon. Why bother?

  92. #92 John
    July 7, 2012

    Karen admits the climate is warming.

    I wonder what is driving this change.

  93. #93 John
    July 7, 2012

    Plus, if you follow Karenmackpot’s argument to its logical conclusion, there was no MWP because it still snowed.

  94. #94 Chris O'Neill
    July 7, 2012

    “the little intsy tinsy idy biddy tiny wee little bit of warming”

    Whatever happened to global cooling? Obviously the new meme is “little intsy tinsy idy biddy tiny wee little bit of warming”. You know, the warming with the warmest June in UAH’s record outside of an El Nino and the unconditional third warmest June.

    Who said the braindead Karen was useless? Thanks for updating us on the latest global warming:

    http://www.drroyspencer.com/2012/07/uah-global-temperature-update-for-june-2012-0-37-deg-c

  95. #95 Karen
    July 7, 2012

    “Europe is burning coal at the fastest pace since 2006, as surging imports from”……………

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-07-02/europe-burns-coal-fastest-since-2006-in-boost-for-u-dot-s-dot-energy

    It looks like nobody is as scared of CO2 as you guys (and barnturd).

    Maybe they are going dump that rubbish carbon tax and close the failed carbon trading markets.

  96. #97 John
    July 7, 2012

    No, nothing remarkable about the warmest non-El Nino June on record.

    Seriously though, for those who can’t be bothered clicking on the link, Spencer blames June on the UHI (really!) and says he’s stopped answering his phone, so tired is he of all the severe weather and pesky journalists wanting answers. Wonder what’s causing those extremes?

    Hey Karenmackspot, any word which bit of the Ar4 said cold wouldn’t exist by 2012? Or how there was a MWP and yet stil snow?

  97. #98 John
    July 7, 2012

    During the brief 2010 US snowstorms Karenmackspot blamed the “COLD CLIMATE” but during the intense heatwaves he blames the weather and calls 3,000 records being broken in days “unremarkable”.

    What a hypocrite!

  98. #99 Bernard J.
    July 7, 2012

    My own thoughts are (and always have been) that KMS is not ‘Karen Bracken’. Karen Bracken is more literate than KMS, and anyway no real female would try to feminise my identity as a means of insult. And women aren’t usually as prone to coprolalia as is KMS.

    Not that I mind being mistaken as a female – there’s a large preponderance of females in my family, and consequently I do not have the sexist issues that plague KMS.

    On the matter of the graph to which he linked at 6:48 am, 7 July, it’s worth noting that amongst other dissemblances it completely omits all documentation of human-caused carbon dioxide increase. Now why would anyone do that?!

    The guy is an embarrassment to denialism. If any of the other denialists here disagree, please stand up for KMS, and tell us where you think that he has actually made a defensible point. I’d love to poke at those dead remains…

  99. #100 bill
    July 7, 2012

    Oh please, please ban the little clown.

    When, when will you dimwits ever realise that a blog is like a dinner party at someone’s house; you cannot burst in, tramp your muddy feet across the carpet, insult the host, insult the guests, loudly complain there’s only ‘f*in’ rabbit food’ in the buffet, pour the dregs of your hip flask of Bundaberg into the punch, then grab the TV remote control to turn up the volume on re-runs of the Dukes of Hazzard… much as I’m sure that would be a perfect evening for you.