September 2012 Open Thread

Time for more thread.


  1. #1 Wow
    September 25, 2012

    Well, drop the environ bit and you’re closer to the truth of the swivel-eyed maniac.

  2. #2 Mack
    September 25, 2012

    I’ve never made any links to Joanna Nova nor made any comments on her site. Jeff Harvey. so try again with some other paranoid red herring. A “tangled web of deceit and denial ” Better get back on the Largactil Jeff baby.

  3. #3 Lionel A
    September 25, 2012

    German data centres apparently run without a UPS…

    For the blockheads around here, you know who you are well more certainly we do, that UPS expands as Un-interruptable Power Supply and does not refer to a well known courier service.

    Heck I have had UPS on my desktop computers here for about 14 years due to problems with brownouts which caused much angst while burning data CDs (of photo-inages) in the early hours – many Frisbees resulted. Also can cause havoc through buffer read-write lags causing cache incoherency across storage data paths.

    This became more important with a move to a Windows based environment where disc read writing became more capricious and less under the control of the operator. How many times have a seen a dimming of lights accompanied by kick in of the UPS back-up saving hard drives from that dreaded power-up whilst still powering down.

    I even keep a spare UPS around and replacement batteries for facility in quick replacement if one goes down.

  4. #4 Karen
    September 25, 2012

    I found some animations that were put together by NASA that demonstrate the Cyclone and severe storms in the Arctic this year, these extremely windy conditions caused the sea ice there to be smashed to bits, sure did trick the alarmists lol

    They think it melted 🙂

  5. #5 Karen
    September 25, 2012
  6. #6 Wow
    September 25, 2012

    Since similar storms have happened eight times in the record of the satellite instrumentation but has never caused such a loss, please explain the difference.

    And, given that it was, without the influence of the storm, already a minimum, the storm didn’t CAUSE the minimum.

  7. #7 Wow
    September 25, 2012

    And could any denialist PROVE this storm CAUSED this minimum?

    You know, prove that if it weren’t for this storm, there would have been NO minimum.

    Go on.

    Dare ya.

  8. #8 zoot
    September 25, 2012

    No Marco I was genuinely concerned about a) the destruction and b) a loss of atmospheric CO2 removing trees. My favourite book at the time was Rush to Destruction by Graham Searle.

    So what happened to change your mind? Had a damascene experience did you?

  9. #9 Mack
    September 25, 2012

    No Zoot, the beech forests were saved from clearfelling and only selectively logged. The left-over sawdust was used to fill your cranial cavity.

  10. #10 Wow
    September 25, 2012

    So, Mack has time to sneer but cannot say that the storm CAUSED the sea ice decline in 2012.


  11. #11 bill
    September 25, 2012

    Yeah; he saw- the Right!

  12. #12 Wow
    September 25, 2012

    But now he’s so ronery.

  13. #13 chek
    September 25, 2012

    Shorter Karen @ 11.04: They can tell me anything and I’ll believe it, even if heat is the only thing known to melt ice.

  14. #14 Jeff Harvey
    September 25, 2012

    OK Mack, I stand corrected. My guess is that you found about Nahle’s nonsense from Jennifer Marohasy’s blog. And she’s as much an anti-environmentalist as Nova. No worse, no better. There’s little doubt that you and other climate change deniers are dependent on web sites for much of your world views on the field. PentaxZ, Karen, Olaus et al. are all devoted to the pages of the deniers sites as well as hacks in the media like Delingpole and Booker who spew out nonsense at quite remarkable rates.

    So please let us know here what blogs you get your climate science information from. Because you sure don’t appear to read much of the primary peer-reviewed literature. The fact is that it doesn’t matter whether you get it from Nova, Marohasy, Bishop’s Hill, Milloy, Morano, WUWT or most other ‘sceptic’ blogs. They’re pretty much all the same when it comes to issues dealing with the environment where government regulations limiting any kind of corporate activities are concerned. They all bat right and wail against the evils of government.

    Take Morano. They guy used to work fro Rush Limbaugh. Twelve years ago he wrote an article, ‘Amazon.con’ claiming that tropical in Brazil and neighboring countries were not under threat from clear-cut logging. The piece was a mish-mash of bad science and no science. Morano ignored the loss of primary forests and of other processes – such as fire and high-grade logging practices – that rendered a far greater percentage of the Amazon forests as vastly ecologically different (read: simplified) from primary forests and had dramatically altered micro-climate regimes in much of the remaining forest, making much of it susceptible to more fires.

    One of Morano’s ‘experts’ for his pathetic piece was Patrick Moore, who has been mentioned by another climate change denier as a ‘committed environmentalist’. Moore hasn’t any expertise in tropical ecology, but that didn’t matter for Morano who obviously found it hard to scrape up the names of forest biologists and ecologists to bolster his argument. So anyone would do, and Moore seemed a good bet, having been an adviser to the British Columbia forestry alliance (a pro-logging astrotruf group funded by the logging industry to support the clear cutting of ancient forests in the province) but once having been a senior member of Greenpeace. Moore’s gibberish was abominable – in one interview he claimed that ‘no family of birds, beetles or mammals has become extinct because of human activities’ focusing on logging. But of course extinction is not measured at such a broad phylogenetic scale as family, but at the level of species (at the highest), sub-species or genetically distinct populations. For argument’s sake, his comment is akin to saying that every wild member of the family Felidae (cats) is extinct except for the domestic tabby (Felis domesticus), therefore technically the family is still extant. Thus tigers, lions, cougars, snow leopards, leopards, margays, caracals, bobcats, lynx etc. (approx. 35 species worldwide) could be extinct but since domestic cats survive, then the family technically is not extinct. Moore was either IMHO plainly stupid, or else he was deliberately making a ridiculous assertion on the basis that many in the general public cannot tell an order from a family from a tribe from a species etc. The word ‘breed’ is constantly misused by TV pundits to describe a full species. Moore appeared to play to this kind of audience.

  15. #15 Mack
    September 25, 2012

    OK Jeff , you hit me with this giant diatribe which runs off me like water from a ducks back. a) due to length. b) political machinations you perceive in the blogosphere about which I don’t give a monkeys. c) Yet more ramblings on about your science speciality of species damage, which you attribute to AGW. In this respect my eyes just glaze over because ,as I’ve said to you before, localised environmental damage is a far cry from AGW.
    Straight away you began with “Nahle’s nonsense” You cannot say it’s nonsense until you’ve read it.

  16. #16 Bernard J.
    September 25, 2012

    Straight away you began with “Nahle’s nonsense” You cannot say it’s nonsense until you’ve read it.

    Heh. When it comes to Nahle, one does not need to “read” him (any further than may have occurred in the past) to understand that whatever he writes will be nonsense.

    Anyone who thinks otherwise would have trouble understanding at which end of his body his arse is located.

  17. #17 Mack
    September 25, 2012

    “arses” again? ….Karen is right…you are a dirty boy Bernerd.
    “whatever he writes WILL be nonsense” Yeah just block it out with all the preconception your excuse for a brain can muster.

  18. #18 Wow
    September 25, 2012

    Zip it up and put it away, Mack, you’re not impressing anyone.

  19. #19 Lionel A
    September 25, 2012

    OK Jeff , you hit me with this giant diatribe which runs off me like water from a ducks back.

    Of course it does because your claim to environmental fame is weak by being based upon a narrow area of investigation and ignoring bigger pictures. That is why the Maranos, Milloys, Watts’, Novas, Bolts etc. appeal to the trolls that appear on here.

    And I doubt very much that Jeff assigns all species loss to AGW just quite a bit of it. Land use changes, as indicated in Jeff’s last post, which from the tone of your reply, you did not bother to consider in its entirety. Consider meaning a bit more than simply reading same.

    And when we get into considerations of speciation one can get into very deep waters indeed.

  20. #20 zoot
    September 25, 2012

    Yep, Mack’s a NIMBY.
    The beech forests (Mack’s “environment”) were saved. No need to worry about the rest of the planet (the environment).

    How are you bearing up under that NZ carbon price Mack? Is it wrecking the economy the way the Australian GBNT was going to??

  21. #21 Jeff Harvey
    September 25, 2012

    *Yet more ramblings on about your science speciality of species damage, which you attribute to AGW*

    I) Incorrect. You imply that I meant AGW is the main factor for declining biodiversity. I never said that. I say its one factor, and in combination with others will be broadly deleterious on biodiversity.

    2) You should pay attention to what you refer as ‘political machinations’. If you don’t you are naive. If many of the most prominent deniers are associated with libertartian think tanks in turn funded by corporations with an axe to grind, then this IS relevant. If I am a lawyer and you pay me, I am working for you. It also suggests that the science is only a camouflage for deniers that obscures alternate agendas.

    3) You clearly place a lot of stock in ‘science’ from a guy (Nahle) that doesn’t publish in the peer-reviewed literature. Thios should raise warning flags right away, given Nahle has not been trained in climate science. Why don’t many of the deniers throw their arguments out into the broader scientific arena where it would be scrutinzised by real experts in the field? The answer should be obvious. Instead, deniers are championed by right wing web logs (Maharosy, for example, is affiliated with the far right Institute of Public Affairs). If one doesn’t think these affiliations influence views on science, then they must be living in an intellectual voiud.

    4) Mack answered my question for me. He does appear to get much of his information from climate change denial blogs like Maharosy’s (after all she’s the one plugging Nahle’s stuff). Too bad Mack that you’ve never heard of the term, ‘primary literature’. So much for being an environmentalist.

  22. #22 Wow
    September 25, 2012

    *Yet more ramblings on about your science speciality of species damage, which you attribute to AGW*

    Alternatively, is Mack here saying that AGW hasn’t caused any damage?

  23. #23 Lotharsson
    September 25, 2012

    “Straight away you began with “Nahle’s nonsense” You cannot say it’s nonsense until you’ve read it.”

    Of course, you can’t say anything but it’s nonsense after you’ve read even a little bit of it. That is, if you are making a rational assessment of it.

  24. #24 Wow
    September 25, 2012

    “Straight away you began with “Nahle’s nonsense” You cannot say it’s nonsense until you’ve read it.”

    We have.

    It’s nonsense.

  25. #25 FrankD
    September 25, 2012

    If Karen likes animations about the Arctic, she will surely love this excellent video about the current state of affairs.

    There is a lot to like about the video as a whole, but the animation between 0:53 and 1:53 is very illuminating.

    One storm does not an ice-free Arctic make.

  26. #26 Jeff Harvey
    September 25, 2012

    Thanks Frank. The video is terrifying in its implications for not only the Arctic but for the planet. Humanity seems hell-bent on self destruction.

  27. #27 Mack
    September 25, 2012

    We fought them on the beechs Zoot, and won !

  28. #28 adelady
    city of wine and roses
    September 26, 2012

    Nahle ! For some reason I actually read a whole 2 pages of that stuff. Had to give up before too many neurons were sacrificed to such an unworthy cause.

    FrankD. You’re right. That animation is far and away the best I’ve seen. The pacing’s exactly right and the visuals are distinct enough so that you’re always sure what’s going on.

  29. #29 Vince Whirlwind
    September 26, 2012

    Concur, the animation was excellent.

    Obviously, Karen (etc…) have a point: this year’s new record is a completely anomalous data point that contradicts the trend and should therefore be explained with reference to a one-off weather event.
    Or not.
    Let the Astute Reader be the judge….

  30. #30 Vince Whirlwind
    September 26, 2012

    Hey, great link MikeH!

    So, when we compare facts with the crap Booker writes recycles form the Spiegel, we get:

    2011 compared with 2006
    – the number of operators increased by 10% (lots of new evil wind farms, probably)
    – the number of users increased by <1%
    – the number of low-voltage outages dropped by 11%
    – the average low-voltage outage length dropped by 8%
    – the number of mid-voltage outages increased by <1%
    – the average mid-voltage outage length dropped by 32%

    I'd say MikeH's being over-kind using the word "moron" to describe those who could spin this positive improvement in the state of the German electricity grid as being evidence of wind power forcing industry to relocate abroad.

    In fact, Booker is conducting himself precisely as one of the cranks and nutjobs Swan was referring to last week.

  31. #31 Lionel A
    September 26, 2012

    One for the troll collective and also Tim Curtin:

    Atmosphere: exploring climate science via an interactive gallery at the UK Science Museum. Also check out the ‘Climate Science Info Zone‘ from the Intro page.

    You all may learn something.

  32. #32 jerryg
    September 26, 2012

    Thanks Lionel, They even have pretty pictures to go with the text.

  33. #33 ianam
    September 27, 2012


    Moderator Response: As a general note, comment numbering is off on this thread due to Mr. Keyes opting to recuse himself from all participation in this venue.

    That seems like a reasonable thing to do when one has been demonstrated to be wrong about virtually everything …

  34. #34 Bernard J.
    September 27, 2012


    I’d love to have seen the final comments that brough about Keyes’ overdue demise.

  35. #35 Lotharsson
    September 27, 2012

    Me too Bernard. In a way it’s a shame they were all deleted – they stood as a monument to an interesting approach to “reasoning” and “evidence”.

    It’s also interesting just how far off the comment numbering is on a couple of threads. Mr. Keyes certainly seemed rather motivated to argue about the LOG12 paper and certain related topics at great length…

  36. #36 bill
    September 27, 2012

    I believing he’s now assisting Messrs. Dunning and Kruger with their enquiries…

  37. #37 Lotharsson
    September 27, 2012

    I believing he’s now assisting Messrs. Dunning and Kruger with their enquiries…

    …without realising the fact 😉

  38. #38 ianam
    September 27, 2012

    I’d love to have seen the final comments that brough about Keyes’ overdue demise.

    Perhaps he became apoplectic when the “forthright” mk (whoever that is, heh heh) accidentally publicly called him a dishonest scumbag and the moderator didn’t snip it. Odd, that, but a bit delicious.

  39. #39 ianam
    September 27, 2012

    More than 100 million people will die and global economic growth will be cut by 3.2 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) by 2030 if the world fails to tackle climate change, a report commissioned by 20 governments said on Wednesday.

    “Let’s wait and see”, say the “septics”.

  40. #40 John
    September 28, 2012

    I found some animations that were put together by NASA

    This would be the same NASA that you have previously accused of fraudulently manipulating data when you didn’t like their results? That NASA?

  41. #41 John
    September 28, 2012

    Anybody wondering what happened to Christopher Monckton? Since his humiliating exit from the Potholer54 debate when the facts got a little hot for him and the unfortunate Nazi debacle that derailed his Australian visit, he’s been applying his unique brand of mathematics to the question of whether President Obama’s (whom he politely refers to as “Fu Manchu”, a testament to his cracking wit) birth certificate is fake.

    From Pentaxz’s favourite scientific source, World Net Daily:

    Entire books have been written about the problems with the “birth certificate” that was released by the White House purportedly documenting Barack Obama’s birth in Hawaii.

    Computer imaging experts have found it to be fraudulent and the conclusion of an official law enforcement investigation assembled by Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio is that it is just not real.

    But it wasn’t until now, through the work of the Christopher Monckton of Brenchley, that the world was informed just exactly what the odds are against all of those anomalies occurring naturally.

    One in 62,500,000,000,000,000,000. (That’s 62.5 quintillion)

    If anybody is wondering how he arrived at that figure, he simply invented probabilities for non-existent “errors” and multiplied them together. This resulted in, drum-roll please, a big number!

    As expected with Monckton, the rest of the article contains the usual outright falsehoods we’ve come to expect, not least an artfully-worded description of the court case against An Inconvenient Truth in which he neglects to mention he both funded and lost the case.

    I wonder what the odds are that Monckton could make such an egregious mistake? Perhaps he could calculate them for me?

  42. #42 Lotharsson
    September 28, 2012

    …whoever that is, heh heh…


    …accidentally publicly called him a dishonest scumbag and the moderator didn’t snip it…

    I must have missed that.

  43. #43 bill
    September 28, 2012

    Monckton teamed up with Sherrif Arpaio – he of the stripey-suited ‘Oh Brother Where Art Thou’ chain-gang revival – to come up with his previous earth-shaking revelation on the matter and discovered – wait for it… a scanning artifact!

    Easlily replicated at home by anybody with Adobe Illustrator, a scanner, and a desire to search for disconfirming evidence.

    God knows what the ‘new’ revelations supposedly reveal, but I’d say there’s just one chance in 62.5 Quintillion that His Locquacious Lordhip has not become entirely estranged from both plot and planet…

    Remind me again – this guy is one of your chief spokespeople, Deniers; so what does this make you?

  44. #44 MikeH
    September 28, 2012

    John @ 3:50pm
    Thanks for the Monckton reference. I just had an highly entertaining 1/2 hour reading some of the comments on the article. Those birthers are seriously brain damaged but god they are funny in a car crash sort of way. There are a few brave souls in there taking the piss – but the birthers barely even notice.

  45. #45 John
    September 28, 2012

    Bill, the revelation that Monckton is not, perhaps, in possession of all his marbles comes at an awkward time for the deniers.

    Lewandowsky: Deniers are more likely to be conspiracy theorists!

    Deniers: Lies!

    Monckton: Obama is a Kenyan Muslim!

    Deniers: *crickets*

  46. #46 John
    September 28, 2012

    Cheers Mike. They know anybody who gone and done maths and stuff is too smart to be wrong!

    Anybody else notice that Monckton’s article is illustrated with his pretend parliamentary portcullis? It’s been a while since he’s claimed to be a member of parliament – the House Of Lords took care of that – but that hasn’t stopped him trying to infer it.

  47. #47 ianam
    September 28, 2012

    Lewandowsky: Deniers are more likely to be conspiracy theorists!

    Lewandowsky did not say that. Sheesh, don’t make the claim that the denier morons wrongly criticize him for making. Lewandowsky say that conspiracy theorists are more likely to deny science (and not specifically climate science), not the other way around.

  48. #48 ianam
    September 28, 2012

    All nine errors exaggerated the supposed climate threat. The probability that this had happened accidentally was accordingly 1 in 29 [sic], or 1 in 512, or less than 0.002.

    Monckton is an innumerate imbecile (as is of course PentaxZ and anyone else nodding along with Monckton). What he has calculated is the probability of 9 errors being accidental if the chances each error being intentional is 50/50. It’s an obvious fallacy of petitio/2 principii … half assuming your conclusion … suitable for a halfwit, if he’s even that.

  49. #49 Lotharsson
    September 28, 2012

    All nine errors exaggerated the supposed climate threat.

    I don’t know the context for this quote – but it would be enlightening to see Monckton’s revised estimates in the light of the spectacular decline in Arctic sea ice volume well in advance of predictions, along with the faster than predicted sea level rise.

    Nah, maybe not.

  50. #50 Wow
    September 28, 2012

    That just increases the number of errors.

    You didn’t think he drew the exaggeration from those nine errors, did you? No, he “knows” it’s exaggerated and counted nine errors.

    Causal link is not necessary. If your faith is strong enough.

  51. #51 Wow
    September 28, 2012

    “Monckton is an innumerate imbecile ”

    Though inane here will trot out the “you’re lying” all the time without any description of what or how it was lied, just like pentaxZ, KMS and the slug horde.

    He’s happy to use the same tricks to promote things he agrees with.

  52. #52 MikeH
    September 28, 2012

    An article on the new Lewandowsky et al paper at The Conversation may be of interest.

  53. #53 Lotharsson
    September 28, 2012

    That just increases the number of errors.

    LOL! Indeed!

  54. #54 lord_sidcup
    September 28, 2012

    In case that cretin Pentaxz returns, here are a couple more howlers from the Christopher Brooker article he was recommending to us earler in the week. Booker lied about the content of a General Studies A level paper, and also confused Celsius and Fahrenheit!

    There are few bigger clowns on the denier circuit than Christopher Booker.

  55. #55 Lionel A
    September 28, 2012

    Perhaps Christopher Booker should learn to read er… um… books.

  56. #56 Dave R
    September 28, 2012

    I couldn’t get killfile to work here so I wrote a new one. It’s a lot cruder than killfile (e.g. you have to edit the script to killfile someone or change options) and it’s just for this site. I might improve it and find it a home if there’s any interest, but for now it’s on pastebin if anyone wants to try it: . There are instructions at the top of the file. It requires firefox and greasemonkey.

  57. #57 ianam
    September 29, 2012

    Wow is too stupid to understand that I didn’t use any trick; that I explained exactly how Monckton’s math is wrong, and it doesn’t matter what the nine errors were (they were supposedly nine errors in “An Inconvenient Truth”, as stated by Monckton in his World Net Daily article referred to by John). Wow is a dishonest and sickly creep who groundlessly accuses me of some trick here just because I likened him to teabaggers for refusing to take responsibility for his actions.

  58. #58 ianam
    September 29, 2012

    He’s happy to use the same tricks to promote things he agrees with.

    It’s ironic that Wow says this just after I called John to task for using Lewandowsky to attack deniers in a way not supported by Lewandowsky’s actual claims. Of course it is not the first time that I have called out confirmation bias by “our side”, and have ruffled a few feathers for it.

    Or to put it another way: Wow is lying. And like so many, Wow makes the charge of lying the crime rather than the lying itself.

  59. #59 Wow
    September 29, 2012

    inane is under the misapprehension that I was talking about Monckton’s errors.

    I was talking about his.

    Then again, another M.O of the denialist is segue and misdirection, as well as the aforementioned unsubstantiated claims of lies.

  60. #60 bill
    September 29, 2012
  61. #61 bill
    September 29, 2012
  62. #62 Nick
    September 30, 2012

    Alan Jones will eventually die,but it certainly will not be of shame.

  63. #63 Karen
    September 30, 2012

    Ha………… that dumb Antarctic ice, someone should go down there and teach it about CO2 induced gwobull warming !

    Really…………I mean who the hell does that Antarctic ice think it is to buck the trend ?

    That bloody ice is making the IPCC and the whole alarmist cult look so stooopid, what is this going to do to the already failed carbon markets ?
    I see that Fat Al has scooped his greedy profits and bailed out with his loot.

    According to NOAA data, all time Antarctic sea ice extent record was set on Sept 22nd, 2012

  64. #64 bill
    September 30, 2012

    Bull shit.

    Talk about mouth-breather bait.

  65. #65 Bernard J.
    September 30, 2012

    USKMS is evidence that some people simply don’t have enough neurones to hold more than a few facts at a time.

    USKMS’s brain is full, and he can no longer learn.

  66. #66 Bernard J.
    September 30, 2012

    Whn Alan Jones dies, it won’t be a shame.

  67. #67 zoot
    September 30, 2012

    Re Alan Jones: you can take the man out of the toilet, but you can’t take the toilet out of the man.

  68. #68 MikeH
    September 30, 2012

    Alan Jones has admitted buying a chaff bag jacket, donated by a Woolworths executive…

    Social media disaster in train on the Woolworths facebook page complete with the “Woolworths, the chaff bag people …” graphics.

  69. #69 Wow
    September 30, 2012

    “that dumb Antarctic ice”

    In the southern winter.

    Deniers always seem to forget that. Maybe they think the earth is flat.

    Ever watched a snowman melt? It doesn’t just get smaller and thinner, it spreads out.

  70. #70 Karen
    September 30, 2012

    An Initial Assessment of Antarctic Sea Ice Extent in the CMIP5 Models


    We examine the annual cycle and trends in Antarctic sea ice extent (SIE) for 18 Coupled Model Intercomparison Project 5 models that were run with historical forcing for the 1850s to 2005. Many of the models have an annual SIE cycle that differs markedly from that observed over the last 30 years. The majority of models have too small a SIE at the minimum in February, while several of the models have less than two thirds of the observed SIE at the September maximum. In contrast to the satellite data, which exhibits a slight increase in SIE, the mean SIE of the models over 1979 – 2005 shows a decrease in each month, with the greatest multi-model mean percentage monthly decline of 13.6% dec-1 in February and the greatest absolute loss of ice of -0.40 × 106 km2 dec-1 in September. The models have very large differences in SIE over 1860 – 2005. Most of the control runs have statistically significant trends in SIE over their full time span and all the models have a negative trend in SIE since the mid-Nineteenth Century. The negative SIE trends in most of the model runs over 1979 – 2005 are a continuation of an earlier decline, suggesting that the processes responsible for the observed increase over the last 30 years are not being simulated correctly.;

    so……………….what was that about the Antarctic ?

    oh yeah, you all shift the goal posts now and say its warmer in the NH now and that causes more evaporation and more sea ice in Antarctica, lol

  71. #71 bill
    September 30, 2012

    Karen, you really are a moron.

  72. #72 Wow
    September 30, 2012

    “say its warmer in the NH now and that causes more evaporation and more sea ice in Antarctica”

    It’s warmer in the southern hemisphere too. That’s what “Global warming” means.


  73. #73 Karen
    September 30, 2012

    “It’s warmer in the southern hemisphere too. That’s what “Global warming” means.”

    Which part is warmer woo ?

    Here is the 12 month temperature anomaly chart for Australia and it shows that temperatures have been cooler.

    Sth America & Africa have also been cooler, haha, it also looks like El Nino is evaporating.

  74. #74 Lotharsson
    September 30, 2012

    Here is the 12 month temperature anomaly chart …

    Also known as weather. The adults here are talking about climate so go find some kids who want to talk about weather instead.

  75. #75 John
    September 30, 2012

    As it continues to warm Karenmackspot has only become more incoherent.

  76. #76 Lotharsson
    September 30, 2012

    As it continues to warm Karenmackspot has only become more incoherent.

    Hmmm, Detritus lives.

    (Ob Pratchett ref)

  77. #77 bill
    September 30, 2012

    Doing a spot of trolling there, Lotharsson? 😉

  78. #78 FrankD
    September 30, 2012

    Karen gives us a map of Australia. Since she likes maps, she will certainly enjoy this map of the globe – you know, as in global warming. Shows temperature anomaly for November 2011 – April 2012 (most recent available extended period – I couldn’t get the full year to August).

    But look at the Zonal means! A band of cold between 60-70S where Antarctic sea ice forms, and warm everywhere else, with extreme warming in the Arctic. Completely consistent with high Antarctic sea ice, low Arctic sea ice and globally warming temperatures. And just as climatologists predicted.

    Of course, this has been explained to Karen several times, but she has shown in previous arguments about Svalbard and Greenland that she is utterly immune from rationale explanation of her “questions”…

    Obvious trolling is obvious, and yet leaves me wondering – no one could actually believe her rubbish and I cannot imagine any satistfaction from trolling more rationale people with such slight annoyances (they simply provoke good responses for the consumption other readers, if any), so what is Karen’s motivation?

    I mean, I get the Swedish collective, they are truly in denial. But none of them would do the “its cold today so AGW = scam” nonsense. They take their denial seriously. But not even Karen can take Karen seriously…honestly, she provides the best arguments for AGW of anyone on the site!

  79. #79 Lionel A
    September 30, 2012

    Another item for KrakenMackSpot to consume:

    Warming Ocean Could Start Big Shift of Antarctic Ice in which we find this section:

    “It has long been known that narrow glaciers on the edge of the Antarctica act as discrete arteries termed ice streams, draining the interior of the ice sheet,” says Dr Chris Fogwill, an author of the study and an ARC Future Fellow with the UNSW Climate Change Research Centre.

    “However, our results have confirmed recent observations suggesting that ocean warming can trigger increased flow of ice through these narrow corridors. This can cause inland sectors of the ice-sheet — some larger than the state of Victoria — to become thinner and flow faster.”…

    [section snipped]

    …The results showed that while glacier acceleration triggered by ocean warming is relatively localized, the extent of the resultant ice-sheet thinning is far more widespread. This observation is particularly important in light of recently observed dynamic changes at the margins of Antarctica. It also highlighted areas that are more susceptible than others to changes in ocean temperatures.

    Note also amongst the Related Stories headings in the centre column this one:

    Lasers From Space Show Thinning Of Greenland And Antarctic Ice Sheets

    You were saying KrakenMackSpot…?

  80. #80 Ian Forrester
    September 30, 2012

    Karenmackspot shows a map of Australia and concludes from 12 months of data that Australia is cooling.

    Well here are 40 years worth of data which show, surprise, surprise, that Australia has been warming during that period:

  81. #81 Lotharsson
    October 1, 2012

    Doing a spot of trolling there, Lotharsson?

    I knew Pratchett fans would get the reference 🙂

  82. #82 Karen
    October 1, 2012


    “In a few months, we will reach the critical point when there has been no global warming for more than half of the RSS satellite temperature record – which extends back to 1978.”

  83. #83 Lotharsson
    October 1, 2012

    Meanwhile, Woolworths seem to be getting hammered on Facebook for failing to condemn their Community & Government Relations Manager’s egregious actions – which rather suggests they don’t find them at odds with their relationship to the current government – or for that matter, to the community.

  84. #84 Bernard J.
    October 1, 2012

    So, the latest inflation figures are out, and the carbon ‘tax’ has squibbed with respect to the roonation predicted by the Denialati:

    “Squibbed” might even be an exaggeration, because it implies at least some small measure of detectability, and the inflation figures show nothing that can be attributed to the carbon price.

    As long as there’s a signal at the big end of town to start cleaning up their acts, it would seem that the carbon price is Only Good.

    Come on trolls, tell us what you’re so afraid of…

  85. #85 Bernard J.
    October 1, 2012

    In my corner of the world there’s been remarkably little (= none) commentary on the Woolworths connection with Alan Jones’s egregious vomitus. Either the wick’s still burning toward journalists, or Woolies has been hard at work trying to keep it quiet in the media.

    Woolworths will have to hunker down though, because the social media campaign has huge and growing momentum. Even with the media’s apparent reluctance to comment negatively on a favoured corporate entity, sooner or later they’re going to have to speak of the hate in certain Big Businesses that dare not speak its name.

  86. #86 zoot
    October 1, 2012

    “In a few months, we will reach the critical point when there has been no global warming for more than half of the RSS satellite temperature record – which extends back to 1978.”

    Which explains why we have just had the three hottest decades on record. No wonder you couldn’t hack it on Wall St.

  87. #87 ianam
    October 1, 2012

    I see that Wow is lying again. Oh well, nature of the beast.

    Meanwhile, someone called “mk” is enjoying ripping “A.Scott” to shreds in other locales.

  88. #88 MikeH
    October 1, 2012

    Bernard J @ 4:17am

    The reaction is building.

    “Australia’s second biggest advertiser Woolworths, with an estimated annual budget of $160 million, will boycott the show.”

    Jones should have known he was in trouble when Bolt bailed on him.

  89. #89 MikeH
    October 1, 2012

    Here is an article on Jones that is not behind a paywall. Check out the poll at the bottom.

    Or the petition

  90. #90 Lotharsson
    October 1, 2012

    What I’ve seen from Woolworths on Facebook merely claims they’re suspending their advertising on Jones’ show – and they say that they don’t routinely advertise there, or some such PR formula.

    That doesn’t say they’re withdrawing all advertising on his show – merely delaying for a bit.

    And it doesn’t cover advertising on the rest of 2GB which Jones apparently owns part of. Nor does it cover other brands owned by the Woolworths conglomerate.

    Their PR-speak is precisely formulated to give the impression of facts not in evidence, and I wouldn’t be surprised if The Australian has uncritically helped them in that endeavour – but people on social media seem to be getting wiser to these kinds of spin.

  91. #91 Lotharsson
    October 1, 2012

    Come on trolls, tell us what you’re so afraid of…

    I’d say that some of them are afraid Abbott’s deeply dishonest populist scare-mongering campaign won’t sweep him into government any time soon.

  92. #92 Lotharsson
    October 1, 2012

    From this article:

    The Liberal Party is struggling to discredit their current image of an unprogressive party led by a moralistic misogynist. It hardly bodes well for them to have the public see their most youthful members extending a VIP speaker’s invitation to the only man in Australia considered more disdainful of women than Tony Abbott.

  93. #93 Bernard J.
    October 1, 2012


    That petition’s insanely popular. In the ten minutes I watched it, it garnered over a thousand signatures.

    The word is spreading.

  94. #94 Bernard J.
    October 1, 2012

    Four thousand signatures in half an hour.

    Even GetUp! can’t attract signing rates like that.

  95. #95 bill
    October 1, 2012

    That petition’s insanely popular

    And I’m sure we can make it more popular yet! Seriously; you have something better to do this afternoon?

    It’s about time we stopped allowing such obnoxious, poisonous old men to groom the basest dregs in our community into spittle-flecked reactionary flash-mobs ready to instantly to the bidding of the most stunted and venal elements in our society, piling on like some mindless abomination half-way between limpets and lemmings in order to clog up the works on every half-way progressive or rational idea on their behalf.

    Bugger them all!

  96. #96 Karen
    October 1, 2012

    Well she does tell so many porkies that everybody knows she is a liar and I guess that this will really throw the spotlight on her prevarications.

    So the publicity will be a good thing and Jones has such a big following that he might just get a bit of a holiday 🙂

  97. #97 bill
    October 1, 2012

    Exactly! Yep, lets just see if we can put a bit of work in and rub the noses of suchlike dreck in it.

  98. #98 Bernard J.
    October 1, 2012


    You still haven’t figured out that logic thing, have you?

    Nor that facts thing…

  99. #99 Bernard J.
    October 1, 2012

    8000 signatures in an hour – still keeping up that momentum.

    I’ve emailed dozens of friends, so hopefully I’ve helped the ripple…

  100. #100 Lotharsson
    October 1, 2012

    It was at 13,000 signatures when I looked at it a few hours ago, and now it’s almost at 50,000. Astonishing.

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