January 2013 Open Thread

Australia makes into 2013 in good shape despite the carbon tax. How can this be?

Comments

  1. #1 Karen
    January 8, 2013

    Lotharsson, could you be so kind and inform me as to any flood in the last 10 years in Australia that has beaten previous known flood records ?

  2. #2 Wow
    January 8, 2013

    How will that tell you if there’s been more flooding, karen?

  3. #3 David Duff
    This Septic Isle
    January 8, 2013

    And so, gradually, craftily, muttered out the side of the mouth, the truth emerges. A whole gang of ‘climate scientologist’ prelates have just issued a paper in which they try to work out the differential between solar influences, man-made influences and just general natural variability noise as prime cause of (so-called) global warming:

    “We use simulation output from 20 climate models participating in phase 5 of the Coupled Model Intercomparison Project. This multimodel archive provides estimates of the signal pattern in response to combined anthropogenic and natural external forcing (the finger- print) and the noise of internally generated variability. Using these estimates, we calculate signal-to-noise (S/N) ratios to quantify the strength of the fingerprint in the observations relative to fingerprint strength in natural climate noise.”

    Well, did you spot it? Didja? Didja? I don’t suppose the unsophisticated kiddies here did, so I will explain.
    Your cult leaders carefully and with malice aforethought lumped solar influences in with anthropological influences so as not to differentiate between them.

    Now I wonder why they did that?

  4. #4 Wow
    January 8, 2013

    “A whole gang of ‘climate scientologist’ prelates have just issued a paper in which they try to work out the differential between solar influences”

    It may be news to YOU idiots, but it’s old hat to people who actually inform themselves of reality.

    http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/publications_ipcc_first_assessment_1990_wg1.shtml

    2.3 Other Radiative Forcing Agents
    2.3.1 Solar Radiation
    2.3.1.1 Variability due to orbital changes
    2.3.1.2 Variability due to changes total in solar
    irradiance
    2.3.2 Direct Aerosol Effects
    2.3.3 Indirect Aerosol Effects
    2.3.4 Surface Characteristics

  5. #5 Wow
    January 8, 2013

    “Now I wonder why they did that?”

    Because idiots like you never read the IPCC as a matter of faith.

  6. #6 Jeff Harvey
    January 8, 2013

    Don’t know what planet Karen’s on… temperature tomorrow in Lincoln, Nebraska is going to be 10 C; some 8 C above normal. Snow doesn’t last very long at that temeprature; Texas is a mighy big state, dopey, so saying its 1 C means nix. And, as I said, snow is not an indicator of cold or at least below normal temperatures.

  7. #7 Wow
    January 8, 2013

    “You mean forecast errors of +76%, …”

    Nope, I mean their forecasts were wrong on 5 out of 365 days.

    98% accuracy in forcasting.

    The individual forcast isn’t “76% wrong” since they didn’t give a 76% chance of the event happening as predicted.

    It’s not just that you don’t want to understand, it’s that you can’t.

  8. #8 Wow
    January 8, 2013

    Heck, by your “maths”, the Met Office error would be less than I said!

    76% of one day
    6% of one day
    103% of one day
    17% of one day
    1% of one day
    11% of one day

    total: 2.11 day-errors. Out of 365 possible in one year: 0.6% error. Accuracy 99.4%.

  9. #9 chek
    January 8, 2013

    “There has always been evaporation”

    I believe this latest troll tail-chase goes back to your own “a December record for Northern hemisphere snow cover”

    So as Lotharsson kindly pointed out in what were possibly not infantile enough baby steps especially for you, AGW > warmer oceans + warmer air > more evaporation > more precipitation.

    And as the complete morons are fond of saying, that’s how those lying scientists s’plain how warming makes things colder. But then there’s no talking to complete morons, eh Karen?

  10. #10 Vince Whirlwind
    January 8, 2013

    It was 43 degrees where I was – on the coast – on Saturday.

    And tonight – back inland, where I belong – we are shrouded in cooled volatilised combustion products. Smells like burnt grass, which is reassuring, but the wind is pretty wild, the temp has been in the high 30s as the sun sets for days now, and it’s all a bit nasty really.

    The increased rainfall of the last 3 or so years has allowed a lot of growth. (We even had the tops of hills green for months at a time, including in summer). The pounding heat over the last few weeks has turned all this growth into fuel. It’s currently pretty ugly.

  11. #11 lord_sidcup
    January 8, 2013

    @Duff – I might be wrong here, but I think you and your chums have got the wrong end of the stick again and are confusing natural external forcings (part of the signal) and natural internal variability (AKA the ‘noise’). Reasonable to lump together anthropogenic and natural forcings if the point of your study is to distinguish these from the natural noise of the climate system, no?

  12. #12 Lotharsson
    January 8, 2013

    …in what were possibly not infantile enough baby steps especially for you…

    I don’t think sufficiently infantile steps exist for some people ;-)

  13. #13 Vince Whirlwind
    January 8, 2013

    Duff is heroically clocking-in with yet more unbelievably embarrassing paid-for PR-gibberish.

    And people bother responding with more than a one-lioner…

    He’s not even bothering to pretend to being an honest correspondent – it’s all just bald-faced PR-gibberish, as supplied by the fuckwits running this disinformation campaign, which is only still operational in about 6 countries in the world.

  14. #14 Marco
    January 8, 2013

    Lord_sidcup, you are not wrong on both accounts (1. what the scientists were doing, 2. Duff & Co got the wrong end of the stick again).

  15. #15 Lionel A
    January 8, 2013

    Duff,

    What does the term multimodel mean to you?

    Here are some clues.

    Perhaps you should digest this too (one clue):

    Importance of carbon dioxide physiological forcing to future climate change
    Abstract

    An increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) concentration influences climate both directly through its radiative effect (i.e., trapping longwave radiation) and indirectly through its physiological effect (i.e., reducing transpiration of land plants). Here we compare the climate response to radiative and physiological effects of increased CO2 using the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) coupled Community Land and Community Atmosphere Model. In response to a doubling of CO2, the radiative effect of CO2 causes mean surface air temperature over land to increase by 2.86 ± 0.02 K (± 1 standard error), whereas the physiological effects of CO2 on land plants alone causes air temperature over land to increase by 0.42 ± 0.02 K. Combined, these two effects cause a land surface warming of 3.33 ± 0.03 K. The radiative effect of doubling CO2 increases global runoff by 5.2 ± 0.6%, primarily by increasing precipitation over the continents. The physiological effect increases runoff by 8.4 ± 0.6%, primarily by diminishing evapotranspiration from the continents. Combined, these two effects cause a 14.9 ± 0.7% increase in runoff. Relative humidity remains roughly constant in response to CO2-radiative forcing, whereas relative humidity over land decreases in response to CO2-physiological forcing as a result of reduced plant transpiration. Our study points to an emerging consensus that the physiological effects of increasing atmospheric CO2 on land plants will increase global warming beyond that caused by the radiative effects of CO2.

    Duff quoted a short passage and avoided the rest of the article.

    Now I wonder why he did that?

    Through ignorance or mendacity?

    Duff the good little Cardinal Puffer (aka Bishop sHill) and aren’t the shills blowing this one for all its worth, its rattling around the deniersphere like clinkers in their pants.. They are clearly running out of straws.

  16. #16 Lionel A
    January 8, 2013

    Meanwhile we have this (H/T Climate Crocks) collection of reports on the new reality.

    Duff, puff on that in your pipe but put a cork in it before smoking we do not need more effluent.

  17. #17 pentaxZ
    January 8, 2013

    “Don’t know what planet Karen’s on… temperature tomorrow in Lincoln, Nebraska is going to be 10 C; some 8 C above normal”

    Aha, I get it, now weather suddenly fits the cAGW shoe. But only if it’s warm weather, eh? Some mild weather in Nebraska is due to climate change, but bad ass cold in Russia is only weather, correct?

    http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/04-01-2013/123380-global_warming-0/

  18. #18 lord_sidcup
    January 8, 2013

    Pentax cites Pravda. How appropriate.

  19. #19 pentaxZ
    January 8, 2013

    Well, sirup, it seems like the easterns, asians, africans and south americans are the people with their common sense intact, in contrast to the fucked up western “civilization” with its abundance of cAGW mongering so called “scientists”.

  20. #20 pentaxZ
    January 8, 2013

    Well, sirup, it seems like the easterns, asians, africans and south americans are the people with their common sense intact, in contrast to the fucked up western “civilization” with its abundance of cAGW mongering so called “scientists” will eventually save the world.

  21. #21 David Duff
    This Septic Isle
    January 8, 2013

    Did man-made CO2 cause recent global warming?

    If ‘Yes’, then why would you conflate it with other possible natural causes, thus hiding it?

    I repeat, just for your benefit, from the pens of Ben Santer, Susan Solomon, Tom Wigley, Julie Arblaster and Peter Stott et al:

    “We use simulation output from 20 climate models participating in phase 5 of the Coupled Model Intercomparison Project. This multimodel archive provides estimates of the signal pattern in response to COMBINED anthropogenic AND natural external forcing (the finger- print) and the noise of internally generated variability. Using these estimates, we calculate signal-to-noise (S/N) ratios to quantify the strength of the fingerprint in the observations relative to fingerprint strength in natural climate noise.”
    [My emphasis]

  22. #22 chek
    January 8, 2013

    Duffer, out of his depth scrastches his arse and says: “If ‘Yes’, then why would you conflate it with other possible natural causes, thus hiding it?”

    And lo and behold his conspiracy loaded question is answered quite clearly by some of the world’s leading scientists: “Using these estimates, we calculate signal-to-noise (S/N) ratios to quantify the strength of the fingerprint in the observations relative to fingerprint strength in natural climate noise.”

    Yes of course you don’t understand a word of it Duffer. You rely on retards like Watts for information.

  23. #23 Jeff Harvey
    January 8, 2013

    The guy who wrote the Pravda article is a complete nutter. One should check out his web page. IMO he comes off as a psycho. PentaxZ is in good company. Read also some of the comments from readers – comedy stuff like ‘Obama is a communist’ and AGW is a global plot from, of all people, the ‘intellectual elites’.

    Sad to see complete intellectually bankrupt morons like PentaxZ and Duff spreading their gospel of ignorance on Deltoid. Who they are preaching to God only knows, because anybody with a sliver of brain tissue will realize what utter fanatics they are.

  24. #24 lord_sidcup
    January 8, 2013

    @Duff – You are simply confused. You don’t understand the purpose of that study. You have allowed yourself to be spoon-fed a crank’s version of the paper.

  25. #25 Lotharsson
    January 8, 2013

    You have allowed yourself to be spoon-fed a crank’s version of the paper.

    And despite the careful spoon feeding assistance, he still dribbles pap all over himself.

    Sad.

  26. #26 Lionel A
    January 8, 2013

    Duff with more drongo drops:

    …COMBINED anthropogenic AND natural external forcing…

    Why is it so difficult for you to understand that it is good practice to separate out the two types of forcing otherwise how would we know the proportion from the former?

    If an aircraft is being flown off a carrier in order to be able to calculate a safe load level one needs to know the speed of wind over the deck (natural [1]) and the acceleration of the aircraft factored with available deck length (anthropogenic).

    [1] Complicating factor if a catapult was being used. Which part would that be assigned to Duff, natural or anthropogenic?

    BTW that is an analogy.

    If you don’t understand then look up stuff
    but best to avoid Cardinal Puff
    Also don’t bother with WUW that
    ’cause then you would look a right old pratt.

    Oh, But then you do already
    from behaving just like Nova’s teddy.
    And consulting offerings from that TallBloke
    will reinforce that your credibility’s broke.

  27. #27 Lionel A
    January 8, 2013

    More reality from Climate Crocks: Sampling Greenland: The Dark Snow Project .
    Duffer the puffer, your answer to that is…?

  28. #28 Wow
    January 8, 2013

    “Why is it so difficult for you to understand that it is good practice to separate out the two types of forcing otherwise how would we know the proportion from the former?”

    Hell, isn’t their eternal problem how the AR4 can say “very likely most of the warming in the latter half of the 20th Century is from anthropogenic causes”?

    To make that statement is to SAY that there are natural forces and how big they are compared to anthropogenic ones is what they did to arrive at that conclusion.

  29. #29 Wow
    January 8, 2013

    “Did man-made CO2 cause recent global warming?

    If ‘Yes’, then why would you conflate it with other possible natural causes, thus hiding it?”

    We wouldn’t.

    YOU might.

  30. #30 Wow
    January 8, 2013

    “Aha, I get it, now weather suddenly fits the cAGW shoe. But only if it’s warm weather, eh?”

    No, you don’t (surprise, surprise) get it.

    If you come along with “It’s cold here!” and claim this disproves any warming, then YOUR claim is rebutted by “It’s warm here”.

    Nobody other than you deniers are babbling on about weather in spot locations proving anything about climate trends.

  31. #32 pentaxZ
    January 8, 2013

    “Did man-made CO2 cause recent global warming?”

    No.

  32. #33 Wow
    January 8, 2013

    “Did man-made CO2 cause recent global warming?”

    Yes.

  33. #34 Lionel A
    January 8, 2013

    pentaxZ

    “Did man-made CO2 cause recent global warming?”

    No.
    Explain, with back up valid evidence, in your own words.

  34. #35 Wow
    January 8, 2013

    I take it you mean fat panties here needs to explain the “No” response they have, right?

    Never going to happen.

    Ever.

    Doing so NEVER works out for the liars and Panties here knows they’re talking shit.

  35. #36 chameleon
    January 8, 2013

    Well yes Karen,
    and I think the little window looks into the ‘virtually unprecedented’ world of a tribe that is heavily into ‘ritual intellectual humiliation’.

  36. #37 Bernard J.
    January 8, 2013

    Is that idiot Mack here?

  37. #38 Jeff Harvey
    January 8, 2013

    Chamy thinks Karen makes some good points. What shards of credibility she had left went down the drain on that note.

  38. #39 Lotharsson
    January 8, 2013

    Chameleon, you don’t come here for the hunting, do you?

  39. #40 chameleon
    January 8, 2013

    Also Karen,
    I looks like it’s the square window, you know, the one that many seem to have trouble seeing outside of?
    And just for Wow’s benefit, that is known as developing a theme via literary devices.
    If you don’t get it, follow your own advice and read a book!

  40. #41 Vince Whirlwind
    January 8, 2013

    Chameleon, shouldn’t you be off on the far more important task of criticising asians in letters pages over the baby-milk-formula supply crisis?

    http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/aussies-paying-premium-for-baby-formula/story-fnet08xa-1226549876711

    Judging by the comments on this story, that’s where your club is at today.

  41. #42 bill
    January 8, 2013

    Regarding Chammy, should Incomprehension ever become an Olympic event, she might do Australia proud.

    Other than that; who cares?

  42. #43 Vince Whirlwind
    January 8, 2013

    I care, because it is allowed to vote, and that vote, taken together with many others just like it, results in the rag-tag collection of fools and crooks we have currently running this country.

  43. #44 chameleon
    January 8, 2013

    No Lotharsson,
    I understand that you simply CANNOT accept or believe anything I write, but I have explained how I came accross this site.
    However, I must confess that I have become a little addicted to paying visits here.
    So I guess in one way you are correct, I have probably STAYED for a bit of hunting.
    Many of you make it far too amusing and far too tempting to wind you up.
    chuckle :-)
    Don’t get too over excited however, as I’m sure that Tim is delighted that he has a new visitor for his ‘ritual intellectual humiliation’ tribe.
    But with much tongue in cheek folks, I seriously do suspect that Wow is employed by ‘the other tribe’ as an undercover agent.
    His mission is to make you look pathetic by spraying vitriol and arguing that black is white and white is black and THAT WOW IS RIGHT!!!!!!
    AND EVERYBODY ELSE who doesn’t BELIIIIEEEEEEEVVVVVE in (I’m not sure anymore?) is whatever expletive (even with a misogynist after taste) he can dredge up in about 4 to 5 gattling gun, vitriolic comments.
    It is hilarious reading and somewhat addictive I do have to confess.
    I also love the MO here where everybody answers each others questions. It cracks me up.
    And JeffH, I actually think Karen’s ‘analogy’ was an absolute cracker!
    It was humourous without dredging up something as henious as paedophilia.
    Unlike the ‘oh so untouchable’ ABC who are still claiming today that this current heatwave is ‘virtually unprecedented’ and making a huge political fuss over something that is clearly just a common SE Australian heatwave and clearly just weather!
    There are people who live out here and not that old (but that is of course a relative term so let’s say at least 30 years old) that know beyond any doubt that there is nothing unprecedented about this heatwave. We’ve had much worse ones and hotter ones before for fox ache!!!!
    And even though some of us are academics, it isn’t actually necessary to have academic qualifications to understand that.

  44. #45 bill
    January 8, 2013

    True, but ’twas ever thus, unfortunately. The entire country will most-likely be in the grip of Stupid by this time next year… The Dunning-Kruger effect appears to apply at the scale of electorates. But what can you do?

  45. #46 bill
    January 8, 2013

    Chammy: Tinkle tinkle, blather blather, giggle, SHOUT, smiley smiley. What an extraordinarily toxic dill you are!

    And, careful: your dreary suburban mendacity is showing…

  46. #47 Lotharsson
    January 9, 2013

    So I guess in one way you are correct, I have probably STAYED for a bit of hunting.

    Ever reliable, you are.

    The hunting reference is to a rude joke that was mentioned in comments a couple of days ago. It’s about a bear hunter who is eventually asked “You don’t really come here for the hunting, do you?”

    It’s a roundabout way of indicating that you’re in the tribe you’re pointing at and laughing about. Or to put it another way, those who are “into” “ritual intellectual humiliation” here are those who seek out ways to have it directed at themselves, because no-one is making them come here and proudly display their stupidities.

    I predict that even after explaining the joke-as-analogy, you still won’t grok it.

  47. #48 Wow
    January 9, 2013

    “And just for Wow’s benefit, that is known as developing a theme via literary devices.”

    The theme has to have some positive intent to it to develop, cham.

    Yours have no positive reason. It’s all a game of smoke and mirrors so that you say nothing but mean “you’re wrong” without ever saying how you got there.

    Because that would mean learning if you’re actually the wrong one here. And for opinionated redneck blowhards like yourself, that will NEVER do.

    “Liberals and leftist hippies be right?!?!?! NOT ON MY WATCH”

  48. #49 Richard Simons
    January 9, 2013

    But I don’t expect you [Chameleon] to have the honesty or grace to apologize for that.

    Well, Chameleon, I was right, wasn’t I?

    And JeffH, I actually think Karen’s ‘analogy’ was an absolute cracker!

    Analogy? I can’t find where Karen made any kind of analogy. Is this another of those words with your own private definition?

    But with much tongue in cheek folks, I seriously do suspect . . .

    So are you being serious or do you have your tongue in cheek, i.e. are joking? The confusion in your mind must be a continual source of wonder to you. With every day that passes, you come across as dottier than the previous day (as well as reinforcing the impression of being a dishonest coward).

  49. #50 JohnL
    January 9, 2013

    Chameleon says the australian heatwave is nothing special, BOM says:

    ‘‘The current heatwave – in terms of its duration, its intensity and its extent – is now unprecedented in our records,’’ the Bureau of Meteorology’s manager of climate monitoring and prediction, David Jones, said.
    ‘‘Clearly, the climate system is responding to the background warming trend. Everything that happens in the climate system now is taking place on a planet which is a degree hotter than it used to be.’’
    As the warming trend increases over coming years, record-breaking heat will become more and more common, Dr Jones said.
    ‘‘We know that global climate doesn’t respond monotonically – it does go up and down with natural variation. That’s why some years are hotter than others because of a range of factors. But we’re getting many more hot records than we’re getting cold records. That’s not an issue that is explained away by natural variation.’

    Who to believe? BOM or an anonymous troll, I know who I’d pick.

    http://www.theage.com.au/environment/climate-change/get-used-to-recordbreaking-heat-bureau-20130108-2cet5.html

  50. #51 bill
    January 9, 2013

    But, but, unprecedented events happen all the time! ;-)

  51. #52 chameleon
    January 9, 2013

    Well John,
    To coin a wowism.
    They’re wrong.
    Maybe their records have gone missing?
    If they would like to come out here, which is nowhere near suburbia BTW, there are plenty of long term temp records compiled by generational family businesses.
    It is also not the first time BoM has been mistaken BTW.
    My caveat however is that we do find their work and information very useful.
    Unlike you however, we have learnt to take some of their PR with a very large grain of salt.

  52. #53 chameleon
    January 9, 2013

    And Richard!
    Settle petal :-)
    I apologised for the misnomer as it was a genuine mistake.
    What is it that you believe I should apologise for?
    3 or 4 gattling gun comments jumped all over the misnomer.

  53. #54 Vince Whirlwind
    January 9, 2013

    Chameleon, those records you mention were all caused by the UHI effect and are therefore unreliable.

  54. #55 Vince Whirlwind
    January 9, 2013

    I have a photo of a thermometer near a steam engine to prove it.

  55. #56 Vince Whirlwind
    January 9, 2013

    BoM records on the other hand, show:
    http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/climate/change/extremes/timeseries.cgi?graph=HN20&ave_yr=0
    a 30% increase in hot nights, which have as you can clearly see here,
    http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/climate/change/extremes/timeseries.cgi?graph=TNmx&ave_yr=0
    increased by over 1 degree since 1960.
    While,
    http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/climate/change/extremes/timeseries.cgi?graph=CN00&ave_yr=0
    shows a 50% reduction in frost nights.

    More revealingly, though, is the >5% increase in length of the growing season,
    http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/climate/change/extremes/timeseries.cgi?graph=GrSL&ave_yr=0

  56. #57 Vince Whirlwind
    January 9, 2013

    People who *genuinely* live away from suburbia and on the land are perfectly aware of changes to growing seasons, although North American farmers have seen this far more than our shave so far. South Australian farmers on the other hand have seen land become unexploitable due to climate change in the last 25 years.

  57. #58 bill
    January 9, 2013

    My caveat however is that we do find their work and information very useful.
    Unlike you however, we have learnt to take some of their PR with a very large grain of salt.

    PR?! Good God! The intolerable aura of smugness with this one is overwhelming! Being patronised by pondlife!…

    I repeat – I found a picture of Chammy.

    Well, dear reader, you have a clear choice. You can take the word of ageing arrogant, allegedly semi-bucolic fantasists, or the BoM. I’ll give you a tip – only idiots don’t choose the latter…

  58. #59 adelady
    January 9, 2013

    “South Australian farmers on the other hand have seen land become unexploitable due to climate change in the last 25 years.”

    Oh I dunno, vince. When my husband was working in the lower Flinders area a few years ago, there were still people trying to grow crops on land that was on the wrong side of the original Goyder’s line. They just turned them in or left them as soil conditioner when they wouldn’t grow past ankle height. If they got past knee height they’d cut them and sell as animal fodder.

    Another couple of decades of this and Goyder’s line will be in the northern Adelaide suburbs.

  59. #60 Vince Whirlwind
    January 9, 2013

    According to my reading a few years ago, the line had migrated southwards by about 20km(?) at that stage.

    Of course, nobody was saying that particular localised example of climate change was a result of any global event.

    However from what I’ve read, global climate change-related increased rainfall is likely to happen far away to the north (already 50% increases in annual average in some places in WA & NT) and SA is likely to continue getting drier and drier, unfortunately.

    At least they have the best-producing windfarms in the country.

  60. #61 bill
    January 9, 2013

    And, of course, we might have hoped to gain a bit of badly-needed extra water in the north of the state when any increased rainfall across the tropics descended via the Cooper and the Diamantina, but with the party of The Stupid in charge in QLD we live in imminent fear of the announcement of mass irrigation harvesting.

    And best not mention the Murray Darling…

  61. #62 pentaxZ
    January 9, 2013

    “Explain, with back up valid evidence, in your own words.”

    Why should I? You cAGW mongers claim that your dear CO2 hypothesis is valid, ergo you have to prove it valid. So far no one has ever succeeded. And no, arm waving, computer games and straight lines isn’t valid evidence. Has never been, will never be.

  62. #63 MikeH
    January 9, 2013

    Shorter pentaxZ
    “you will never convince me with facts”

  63. #64 bill
    January 9, 2013

    Currently we really are in the process of conducting a giant social experiment where the chaff is gradually winnowed out and only the purest remain – the Dumbest of the Dumb.

    I hope you all live long enough to suffer the direct consequences of your own imperturbable imbecility, whether that be overwhelming climatic events, or the related displeasure of your neighbours.

  64. #65 Richard Simons
    January 9, 2013

    I apologised for the misnomer as it was a genuine mistake.
    What is it that you believe I should apologise for?

    Considering I wrote “I don’t care about that – you aren’t the first to get my names switched.” it is unlikely, isn’t it? The immediately following few words, “What I do care about is that you completely misrepresented my views” would probably give an astute reader what is known as ‘a clue’.

  65. #66 chameleon
    January 9, 2013

    HMMMMM?
    Very interesting.
    I went along to the Jennifer Marohasy site that you have been referring to.
    BTW, whoever said I was ‘like’ her, after reading up about Jennifer Marohasy, I’m very flattered.
    Of course I do know of her as she has been rather outspoken about the silly bi partisan nonsense that has developed around that hopeless water act 2007 and the MDBP.
    She is particularly appalled that no one has the courage to tackle the real problems that have developed around the bottom of the system.
    I also notice that she is ‘published’ in science journals although it is obviously not her main goal in life.
    Anyway, this guy named Robert has accessed the records and commented thus:
    We’re in drought here on the midcoast. It’s worse than somebody-or-other thought! It’s unprecedented in the entire record after 2007. It’s the worst dry spell of any year ending in a 1 and a 3 since 1913. Jan 1 was the driest day of 2013, just nudging out Jan 2. The heat is without precedent in 2013, yet, apart from joining and participating in his local fire brigade, Tony Abbott has done nothing about it today. What a misogynist. I hope John McTernan alerts the ABC about this latest Abbott scandal.

    By the way, for those interested in climate extremes, and drought in particular, our region’s driest recorded January was in 1900…but wait! There’s more!

    Our driest Feb was in 1939. Our driest March was in 1922. Our driest April was in 1896. Our driest May was in 1957. Our driest June was in 1883. Our driest July was in 1951. Our driest August was in 1919. Our driest September was in 1907. Our driest October was in 1908. Our driest November was in 1926. Our driest December was in 1938.

    Our driest year? 1902.

    Oh, and every single monthly record for heat was set between 1910 and 1919, except that of August, which was hottest in in 1946.

    This was not a local freak which somehow extended over many decades. All of this reflects the half century of rain deficit in much of Australia following the Fed drought. For fire, of course, it’s possible that nothing in world history matches Black Thursday, Victoria, 1851, but the period after the Fed drought, while not free of flood and the usual Australian reverses, was problematic climate change in reality.

    For real world climate change, you need real world solutions. Instead, we have extensive plans to waste water, energy, food, infrastructure and money…and we fund this nonsense by gouging more and more of the very coal we are not supposed to use.

    Are there any adults left out there? Hello? Adults?
    And later thus:
    By the way, I’m writing from the middle of the Australian scrub. After five champion years of growth, it’s a huge piece of luck that the conditions are not nearly as bad as 19 years ago.
    And later Thus:
    If any of our country’s professional advisers are saying “unprecedented”, tell them they are outrageous frauds – and be glad it is not you who is peddling such an obvious and easily exposed lie. And don’t give these climate hucksters oxygen by quoting them, especially the arch-polluter Garnaut.

    If you want to go along and see for yourself he also explains where he sourced the data.
    Funnily enough it was at the BoM link via the Elders site.
    Funnily enough, these records also match long term temp and rainfall records from generational businesses in my area as well.
    And just in case you missed it before, there is nothing suburban about my life or my lifestyle.
    I don’t even live in a town.

  66. #67 Karen
    January 9, 2013

    The AGW propagandists in Australia were silent all year, then we get a bit of hot weather, as usual in summer, and the wailing begin’s WAH WAH WAH lol, just because we get a few warm days the talking heads use it in a similar manner that Hanson did when he had the air conditioners turned off during his speech to congress, disgusting. Of coarse there are some people who are totally suckered in by the PR campaign, this site is littered with them.

    Some perspective……….

    “Large areas of northern and eastern Australia had cooler than normal minima in 2012. In fact,

    For the year as a whole, minimum temperatures were 0.28 °C below average. Minima were below average across much of northern and central Australia as well as New South Wales west of the Great Divide. A large part of this area recorded minima in the lowest decile. … Winter ranked as the third-coolest on record nationally for minimum temperatures (0.91 °C below average), and coolest for the Northern Territory, while autumn (0.93 °C below average) was the fourth-coolest nationally.”

    http://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/category/temperature/

    http://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/

    While I’m at it I’d like mention this nutter alarmist,

    Anna Rose of “I can change your mind about climate”

    This from her bio, “She became a climate change campaigner after her grandparent’s farm in North Western NSW was affected by the Drought, and Anna connected the dots to climate change.”

    Hahahaha, her grandparent’s farm in North Western NSW is smack bang in central Australia, in the Desert !!

    This silly girl thinks that Climate Change has caused dry conditions at her grandparent’s farm in North Western NSW !!!!!! Could someone PLEASE give this idiot a history lesson ?

    These are the type of people that are trying to convince the general public that CO2 is 100% the reason why the planet has been warming, even though it hasn’t warmed for 15 years, and David has so generously reminded you all that CO2 has not receded but has in fact multiplied with no obvious warming in conjunction with it.

  67. #68 MikeH
    January 9, 2013

    The less Chammy has to say, the more words she uses to say it.

    Meanwhile in a shock to their regular readers who were preparing for a new ice age, the WSJ reported that

    The lower 48 U.S. states experienced the warmest year on record in 2012, shattering the previous mark set in 1998 by one degree Fahrenheit, government scientists said Tuesday.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323936804578229822277760356.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

    Of course the reference to “government” scientists is code for the regular readers to don tinfoil hats.

  68. #69 MikeH
    January 9, 2013

    The climate denier nutters are particularly active today – and the next full moon is not until the 25th. Perhaps the yawning chasm between their beliefs and climate reality is sending them into a frenzy.

  69. #70 ianam
    January 9, 2013

    What is it that you believe I should apologise for?

    He (and others) stated it several times.

    3 or 4 gattling gun comments jumped all over the misnomer.

    No, you lying sack of shit … the complaint is that you blatantly misrepresented what he wrote.

    Oh, why do I bother? These assholes are so predictable … they will never admit to anything.

  70. #71 Karen
    January 9, 2013

    Inaman you are such a drama queen !

  71. #72 chameleon
    January 9, 2013

    But the problem is Mike H,
    Who do we believe?
    BoM? or BoM?
    Because they all come from BoM.
    Maybe they forgot to mention in this latest release that they didn’t use all their records?

  72. #73 chameleon
    January 9, 2013

    Richard?
    Do you mean your ‘probably’ comment?
    That wasn’t what you meant to say?
    It’s OK, some others from the ‘ritual intellectual humiliation’ tribe here rewrote it for you.
    You can relax.
    Apparently what you wrote wasn’t what you meant to write and someone rewrote it for you.

  73. #74 chameleon
    January 9, 2013

    BTW,
    I also noticed people at the Marohasy site can manage to discuss content and contrary politics without the need to swear at each other.
    I do so hope that ianam and wow don’t speak to real people in their real lives in this manner.
    They would find it rather hard to maintain good relationships.
    But maybe they only hang around with people of totally like mind and haven’t needed to learn how to discuss politics and weather and such like with others who may not share their views?

  74. #75 adelady
    city of wine and roses
    January 9, 2013

    bill “And best not mention the Murray Darling…”

    I remember during the drought we were at a party in the mid-North, nowhere near the Murray, and the hosts were talking about visiting relatives in NSW. On a fruit block. With open irrigation ditches!! They were horrified. More so because the rellies didn’t know why they thought this was so awful. SA irrigators had been installing drip irrigation for over a decade by then, and every time you see vineyards being set up, the drippers are there before the vines are planted.

    I’ve since come to the conclusion that it’s just as well Federation removed the individual states’ defence forces. If SA still had its own, I’m pretty sure a few rogue sappers might have done some real damage to various “projects” upstream.

  75. #76 bill
    January 9, 2013

    Chammy, your hubris is beyond reckoning. Never have I encountered such a self-satisfied, self-deluding fool. Remember these words, because one day, should you live long enough, you’re going to wish you had listened to them…

  76. #77 MikeH
    January 9, 2013

    I love this comment from Captain Stupid himself, Warren Truss head of the National Party and stand-in leader of the opposition.

    ”Indeed I guess there’ll be more CO2 emissions from these fires than there will be from coal-fired power stations for decades,”

    It is certainly true that burning Australia’s eucalypt forest releases vast amounts of CO2 although the Cap’n is exaggerating a tad.

    But what is his argument? CO2 cannot be bad if is also emitted from bushfires? Tell me it is not so – how does this turkey stand and talk at the same time?

  77. #78 chameleon
    January 9, 2013

    Bill,
    right back at you sweetie pie :-)
    But of course because I haven’t actually ‘encountered’ you anywhere except on this site my opinion of you holds no more weight in your life than yours does in mine.
    It also is entirely irrelevant to matters under discussion.
    But heh! If you get a kick out of judging people on so little evidence, then good luck to you.
    Some of your accusations and judgements of my lifestyle are at least affording me some amusement.

  78. #79 chameleon
    January 9, 2013

    Mike H?
    Was that your attempt at using a rhetorical question?

  79. #80 bill
    January 9, 2013

    Do you really imagine, à la Watts, that if only a large enough gang of doughty old true-blue, salt-of-the-earth (reactionary) types go back through their local-records, then AGW, that hoary monster spawned by those evil social!st city-slickers, will go away?

    Wow, and those records are from the BoM, are they, and so they prove that the BoM’s statements about the national climate, assembled as they are by the merely competent based on all the other frickin’ records in the country are wrong?

    It is impossible to satirise you people.

    Are you aware of the fate of Watt’s ‘surface stations’ project, a mob-sourcing* exercise based on remarkably similar set of assumptions. Blew up in his face. Just like his clarion endorsement of the BEST project when he thought the result was (wink, wink) a sure thing from the start.

    Turns out the people who know what they’re doing are the people who know what they’re doing. And, HINT: you’re not one of them.

    Whatever your hairdresser might think.

    Of course, Watts’ learned nothing from it, and becomes just that little bit more marginalised every day. He has disappeared into what conservatism’s own internal critics refer to as ‘the epistemic bubble’, which you’re so lost in the importunate realities of the outside world can barely hope to register above the honeyed din of self-congratulation.

    And, yeah, Marohasy’s work on the Murray for the IPA was little short of brilliant. Certainly, you’d think so.

    *it’s like crowd-sourcing, only much denser and more angry…

  80. #81 Lotharsson
    January 9, 2013

    The less Chammy has to say, the more words she uses to say it.

    Aye.

    Compensation tactic ;-)

    She also appears to be doing the standard denialist “my location indicates national/global averages”, and “some amateur dataset I heard about trumps scientific datasets”.

    Better trolls please.

  81. #82 Lotharsson
    January 9, 2013

    That wasn’t what you meant to say?

    Not just dumb and gullible, but deliberately trying to provoke offense by doubling down after having her interpretation comprehensively rebutted.

  82. #83 Lotharsson
    January 9, 2013

    Was that your attempt at using a rhetorical question?

    The wrong is strong in this one.

    (And she’s still wrong about leaving for the third (or are we up to the fourth?) time. She’s really not here for the hunting!)

  83. #84 Wow
    January 9, 2013

    She’s here so she can flounce off and go to her team mates and tell them all tales of drunkenness and cruel tea.

    Then after satiating herself on the groupwank comiserations, come back here so she can do it all again.

    She’s not here for us, she’s here so she can be a victim for the rest of the denial crowd.

  84. #85 chameleon
    January 9, 2013

    Bill,
    1) Where did I mention Watts?
    2) Who is ‘you people’?

  85. #86 chameleon
    January 9, 2013

    Ummmm?
    Wow?
    On what evidence would you be basing that?

  86. #87 Wow
    January 9, 2013

    ““Explain, with back up valid evidence, in your own words.”

    Why should I?”

    Why then did you tell everyone that CO2 from human activities did not cause warming?

  87. #88 Wow
    January 9, 2013

    “On what evidence would you be basing that?”

    On the evidence of your appearance on this thread.

  88. #89 Wow
    January 9, 2013

    “Why should I?”

    You cAGW denial mongers claim that your dear CO2 hypothesis is valid, ergo you have to prove it valid.

  89. #90 Wow
    January 9, 2013

    “To coin a wowism.”

    Don’t you mean a pantiesism?

    Remember “No”? All that was gotten from panties and an INSISTENCE that “No” is all that’s needed.

    Oh, that’s right, you won’t see what you’d prefer not to.

  90. #91 Wow
    January 9, 2013

    “1) Where did I mention Watts?”
    Where did he claim you mentioned Watts?

    “2) Who is ‘you people’?”

    You and your fellow idiots.

    This public information broadcast for the terminally stupid has been brought to you free of charge because you’re too fucking stupid to know what it’s worth.

  91. #92 Karen
    January 9, 2013

    Jeff Harvey
    January 8, 2013

    “Don’t know what planet Karen’s on… temperature tomorrow in Lincoln, Nebraska is going to be 10 C; some 8 C above normal. ”

    Well it’s now tomorrow Jeffery, ummm…..let me see ummm……. Lincoln, Nebraska, oh there it is Jeffery,

    cue: drum roll………………… minus 2 C

  92. #93 Wow
    January 9, 2013

    And that means what about AGW, karen dear?

  93. #94 Karen
    January 9, 2013

    Nothing wow darling :)

    But it does mean that Jeffery still can’t read his tealeaves. lol

  94. #96 Wow
    January 9, 2013

    “Nothing wow darling”

    Good.

    Remember that.

  95. #97 Wow
    January 9, 2013

    “But it does mean that Jeffery still can’t read his tealeaves.”

    It also means you can’t read a thermometer.

  96. #98 Lotharsson
    January 9, 2013

    cue: drum roll………………… minus 2 C

    …and it’s the middle of the night in Nebraska right now. It’s particularly stupid to interpret Jeff’s comment as referring to the overnight minimum.

    You clearly aren’t here for the hunting either.

  97. #99 Karen
    January 9, 2013

    So you concur, congratulations.

  98. #100 Jeff Harvey
    January 9, 2013

    Uh.. Karen.. can you read?

    http://www.weather.com/weather/today/USNE0283

    9 C today expected in Lincoln; more remarkable is that record high temperatures are expected in Ontarion through Friday – a whopping 12 C in Windsor, and even 8 C in Algonquin Park some 14 C above normal… remarkable. As recently as the 1980s, the temperature in southern Ontarion rarely rose above 0 C for the entire month of January, and if it di, to 2 or 3 c; temperatures of 10 C or higher were an impossibility. The climate ius changing for sure.

    Moreover, a recent report now shows that some migrant birds – harriers, chiffchaffs, spoonbills, white storks and others – are now remaining in central Europe during the winter. In the Netherlands, marsh harriers now overwinter on some of the islands. This is remarkable in the extreme. Seasonal and latitudinal shifts in species distributions are proof positive that it is warming and warming rapidly.

    Karen hasn’t got a clue.

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