March 2013 Open Thread

Sorry it’s late, I blame the carbon tax!

Comments

  1. #1 Rednose
    UK
    March 27, 2013

    Well how are things in fantasy land this morning.
    Looks like Ed Davey has finally come clean about Green Taxes.

    Its reported in most of the dailys, including the one you all love.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2299652/286-green-tax-energy-bills-But-ministers-insist-efficient-appliances-SAVE-money.html

    Looks a bit more than the 50p or something that was quoted in that trade journal mentioned earlier.

    Caroline Flint calls it shameful. Wasn’t it her lot that brought this all in.

  2. #2 Rednose
    UK
    March 27, 2013

    Oh and hears another link to one of your favourites.
    http://notrickszone.com/
    This time quoting from Bild

    - Berlin’s high temperature of -3°C was the lowest high for this time of the year in 150 years!

    - The first snow fell in the flatlands already on October 26, 2012. For many regions, it was the earliest snowfall on record!

    - Nature right now is 4 weeks behind schedule!

    - In early March in Northern India an unusual cold spell in the state of Uttar Pradesh led to at least 100 people freezing to death!

    - Record snow fell in Moscow – 80 cm!

    - In Great Britain, thousands lost power in the relentless cold.

    - Kiev, Ukraine saw the most severe snowfall in more than 100 years!
    Add that to most of the rest of europe and the well documented winter in the good old USA.
    What percentage of the Northern Hemishere Land Mass are we up to now.
    Seems a bit more than just a local issue.
    Oh, There should be a link there to the original German. I know you like to practice.

  3. #3 Karen
    March 27, 2013

    I see Jeff Harvey is still freaking out about the weather in Canada, lol, he thinks the Yukon is frying, hehehe

    Here is the expected/current temps for Mayo, thats right in the centre of the Yukon. http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/city/pages/yt-10_metric_e.html

    Here is the average temps for March http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Canada/Yukon-Territory/Dawson/climate-profile.aspx

    and here is the average temps for April http://www.myweather2.com/City-Town/Canada/Yukon-Territory/Dawson/climate-profile.aspx?month=4

    Poor Jeffery, the Yukon temps are average, ordinary, at their median

    Poor deluded Jeffery :)

  4. #4 Lionel A
    March 27, 2013

    RedNose stupid or mendacious?

    Here is an article going back to late summer 2012 that show that real climate scientists new what to expect from a rapid loss of Arctic ice: Arctic sea ice melt ‘may bring harsh winter to Europe’.

    Now do take the time to follow through on the links within and also watch from the following list of videos featuring Jennifer Francis.

    Take you time, absorb and follow any trails that you don’t understand. This because you seem woefully misinformed which is a common condition of those who feed off the pig swill from such as notrickzone, WUWT etc.

    It is painfully obvious that you did not bother following earlier advice to sources of factual information. If you persist in this wilful ignorance mode then it really is not worth the bother of any further countering of your obfuscation. It is about time you had your own padded cell drawer, along with the other socks.

  5. #5 Olaus Petri
    March 27, 2013

    And Lioniel strikes back with a nostradamian “may”-article. Everything’s covered, as usual. :-)

  6. #6 chek
    March 27, 2013

    What is it with this influx of know-nothing numpties that flit in here gloating about the cold every winter (northern hemisphere) without fail? It seems they never learn anything, and never will.

    Write up your paper on how AGW is over, otherwise STFU. Idiots.

  7. #7 Rednose
    UK
    March 27, 2013

    Karen
    They might be average for the Ukon, but they look fairly attractive from here.

  8. #8 Lionel A
    March 27, 2013

    OP

    ditto.

  9. #9 Wow
    March 27, 2013

    “RedNose stupid or mendacious?”

    Yes.

    :-)

  10. #10 Wow
    March 27, 2013

    “- Nature right now is 4 weeks behind schedule!”

    Really? In the Yukon it’s about three months early.

  11. #11 Wow
    March 27, 2013

    “gloating about the cold every winter (northern hemisphere) ”

    One region.

    Don’t forget. They’ll pretend the NH is Bristol or Florida or whatever happens to be colder at the time. When asked to calculate the NH temperature, galloping off on another wild goose-chase is their answer.

    They’d use snow in the Arctic as proof of cooling if there wasn’t anywhere in the NH that was colder than normal.

  12. #12 Wow
    March 27, 2013

    “Wow, I asked grown ups”

    And I answered.

    However, you don’t actually seem to have wanted an answer.

    This will be the default reason for any future ignorings of your petulant demands: you don’t want an answer, so why bother wasting energy answering it?

  13. #13 Jeff Harvey
    March 27, 2013

    Karen, you brainelss ass****, part of the reason I make the points I do is because, and get this thropugh your Pachcephalosaurian skull:

    WEATHER IS NOT CLIMATE. WAETHER IS NOT CLIMATE; WEATHER IS NOT CLIMATE. WEATHER IS N OT CLIMATE. WEATHER IS NOT CLIMATE. WEATHER IS NOT CLIMATE. WEATHER IS NOT CLIMATE.

    Now repeat that a zillion times until it sinks into your pea-sized brain. Weather is stochastic and unpredictable; only at appreciabl;y long time scales can we infer causation. And we also need to invoke geographical scale as well. Scientists do not take cold snaps in Europe, Australia, North America, Mars, or Ganymede for that matter seriously, because they represent stochastic properties. However, one can infer from longer term data sets globally that there have been more and more heat waves and record high temperatures set in an increment over the past several decades. This upward trend is important. But it takes decades to elucidate.

    The truth is that you deniers are still in your intellectual diapers. You can’t argue your way out of wet paper bags. You are neophytes when it comes to essential elements in understanding the dynamics of systems where hierarchies are concerned. And you can’t even agree on where you stand with respect to warming. Some of you idiots agree that it is warming, but claim that humans are not involved; others that it isn’t warming, and others that it is but within boundaries that are ‘normal’. The only thing that links you all in this way is that you deny, deny, deny. And not based on science, because most of you – you, Karen, Rednose, Olaus, et al. – have no relevant expertise in any field of Earth science. But you have well-defined political beliefs, which denial fits in very with. So you surf the internet desperate for other voices to join you in your charade.

    Most people here realize that your views are garbage, Its time you realized that too.

  14. #14 Lionel A
    March 27, 2013

    RedNoseDuff:

    Piers is forcasting the Worst Easter Bank Holiday for decades.

    Piers is well framed here: Prat watch #10: the ice age is here!. In fact Piers frames himself.

    No doubt about it, you also have class when it comes to stupid.

  15. #15 chek
    March 27, 2013

    Corbin’s graphs are a hoot.
    Worth zooming in on to see the x-axis scales of his ‘comparison’.

  16. #16 Jeff Harvey
    March 27, 2013

    Great Medialens article by David Cromwell:

    http://medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/alerts-2013/726-heading-for-a-different-planet-global-warming-irrefutable-science-and-the-failure-of-journalism.html

    As far as Corbyn goes, two years ago he predicted that Britain and much of western Europe would have a November that was punctuated by blizzards and bitter cold. It turned out that it was the warmest November on record in Ireland, second warmest and driest ever in Benelux, and way above normal elsewhere in the region. And then there was his ‘May will be record cold with blizzards in East Anglia prediction for the UK a few years back – ended up the month was normal or slighly abovge and there was no snow.

    His web site is more funny than anything else in my opinion.

    This weekend its supposed to be mostly dry and cool in the UK – 5- 7 degrees under the influence of the Arctic high.

  17. #17 BBD
    March 27, 2013

    I see Rednose The Clown is back pretending he did not get his backside soundly kicked yesterday.

    Pitiful.

  18. #18 Turboblocke
    March 27, 2013

    Karen,this is what your link says above about Mayo’s average March temperatures: “Throughout the month of March daytime temperatures will generally reach highs of around -4°C that’s about 25°F. At night the average minimum temperature drops down to around -22°C, that’s -7°F.”
    Your link to the forecast gives highs of >3C this week. What was the point that you were trying to make?

  19. #19 Olaus Petri
    March 27, 2013

    Dear Jeff, good to see that you finally got the distincion between climate and weather. Was it a first? Normally your hate saturated walls of protentolgy declare the opposite, ergo that any weather event is a proof of Global warming and sign for coming climate disasters.

    Are you on your way to the other side? ;-)

  20. #20 Wow
    March 27, 2013

    “Dear Jeff, good to see that you finally got the distincion between climate and weather.”

    I see you don’t care to correct your fellow denier on the subject.

    Nor, indeed, yourself.

  21. #21 andyuk
    March 27, 2013

    some seriously anomalous weather here in zombie island UK. its so weirdly, anomalously, endlessly freezing cold its starting to freak out even those hardy white van yeomen types who usually laugh in the face of climate science as they merrily go about their day feasting on all other products of science without a hint of denialism, scorn or complaint.

  22. #22 Rednose
    UK
    March 27, 2013

    Talking about getting arses kicked, where were we on the green taxes issue, or whether this cold weather was local r or widespread.

  23. #23 andyuk
    March 27, 2013

    well you got your arse thoroughly kicked on the green taxes issue. and we found the anomalously cold weather in the UK (sorry, i mean zombie island) was balanced by some naughty warm weather in places where it shouldn’t have been due to a very bendy jet steam caused by you driving everywhere. ok?

  24. #24 Wow
    March 27, 2013

    “Talking about getting arses kicked, where were we on the green taxes issue”

    Duffer with yet another non-sequitur.

  25. #25 BBD
    March 27, 2013

    # 22 Clown

    You were shown to be using the wrong numbers on the ‘green taxes issue’ (see what he did there? Lurvely bit of framing, that).

    You were shown that TSI and GAT diverged in the 1980s. TSI *decreased* while GAT *increased*. The same divergence occurs with OHC over the same period.

    Were you not a mendacious buffoon, this would have stopped your gabble.

  26. #26 andyuk
    March 27, 2013

    rednose. your a denialist right? now this is a pointless question as i know the answer already, but do global warming denialists actually feel any decent human traits like shame, inconsistency or irony in denying well established scientific facts when at the same time you are all running about happily enjoying the countless benefits, luxuries, long life, health and happiness afforded by science. because, and its just a wild stab in the dark here, i suspect you lot don’t all run around like headless chickens, making arses of yourselves on youtube denying and complaining about every other known scientific fact.

    or maybe i’ve got you all wrong. maybe you are all totally intellectually consistent after-all. maybe you are all complete technology and science hating luddites that live in caves like hermits, and despise and reject all aspects of modern life like electricity or running water, although how you all operate computers i don’t know. but i have a sneaking suspicion you do use computers, tvs, buy food from supermarkets, go on planes to faraway destinations (at any opportunity), drive cars (everywhere), accept modern medicine, vaccinations, cancer treatments etc. and you dont deny the science of any of them, ever. in fact i bet climate science is the first time you have given science a second thought since school.

    so denialists. if you wanna deny climate science, go ahead. but at least be consistent – stop using all scientific products and go back to being medieval. you think it was all nice and tropical there anyway so you should like it

  27. #27 Olaus Petri
    March 27, 2013

    Andyuk, you don’t need to be a denier of any sort to register that there has been no significant global warming the last 15 years or so. Its worse than you thought! :-)

    Portentology, crystall balling, and doomsaying isn’t science.

  28. #28 Rednose
    UK
    March 27, 2013

    and despise and reject all aspects of modern life like electricity or running water, although how you all operate computers i don’t know. but i have a sneaking suspicion you do use computers, tvs, buy food from supermarkets, go on planes to faraway destinations (at any opportunity), drive cars (everywhere), accept modern medicine, vaccinations, cancer treatments etc.

    With windmills of course
    You have such a large carbon footprint. You really should try to cut down otherwise you will be first for the cull.

  29. #29 BBD
    March 27, 2013

    # 27Olaus Petri

    Andyuk, you don’t need to be a denier of any sort to register that there has been no significant global warming the last 15 years or so.

    Another buffoon who confuses *surface air temperature* with ‘global warming’.

    Pay attention, Petri:

    - Most of the energy (>90%) accumulating in the climate system because it is increasingly in radiative imbalance is going into the ocean.

    - This has been pointed out several times on this thread.

    - Why are you repeating nonsense?

    (Levitus et al. 2012):

    The heat content of the World Ocean for the 0–2000 m layer increased by 24.0 ± 1.9 × 1022 J (±2S.E.) corresponding to a rate of 0.39 W m−2 (per unit area of the World Ocean) and a volume mean warming of 0.09°C. This warming corresponds to a rate of 0.27 W m−2 per unit area of earth’s surface. The heat content of the World Ocean for the 0–700 m layer increased by 16.7 ± 1.6 × 1022 J corresponding to a rate of 0.27 W m−2(per unit area of the World Ocean) and a volume mean warming of 0.18°C. The World Ocean accounts for approximately 93% of the warming of the earth system that has occurred since 1955.

    (Levitus et al. 2012).

  30. #30 chek
    March 27, 2013

    no significant global warming the last 15 years or so.

    I’ve asked you this before Olap, but you only run away. Which is a good enough result.

    If there’s been this 15/16/17 year “hiatus” (the figure is variable amongst deniers) why has summer arctic ice melt been increasing year on year and accelerating from 2007? Only heat melts ice, not storms or the other fairy stories you’ve been fed. ‘Hiatus’ heat. But obviously not enough to induce you to think independently.

    You of course have no answer according to the unscientific pap you prefer to believe, and you’ll no doubt disappear and lie low until everyone forgets what a clownshoe you are. But that ain’t gonna happen. And it’s no use asking your leader Jonarse – it’s one of the questions that ended his Keyesian tenancy here.

  31. #31 Rednose
    UK
    March 27, 2013

    You were shown that TSI and GAT diverged in the 1980s. TSI *decreased* while GAT *increased*. The same divergence occurs with OHC over the same period.

    Who can remember the 80s. That was 30 odd years ago. Was it glam-rock then?
    Whats going on now?
    http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2013/08jan_sunclimate/

  32. #32 Rednose
    UK
    March 27, 2013

    “RedNose stupid or mendacious?”

    Yes.

    :-)

  33. #33 Rednose
    UK
    March 27, 2013

    naughty warm weather in places where it shouldn’t have been due

    Name them. Lets see if they stack up.

  34. #34 Rednose
    UK
    March 27, 2013

    Here is an article going back to late summer 2012 that show that real climate scientists new what to expect from a rapid loss of Arctic ice

    Well if we are trawling through newspapers historical records we could do no better than this from about 2000
    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html

    The real climate scientists as late as 2007 were saying for Europe:
    “cold extremes would decrease”
    “Much of the warming is connected to higher temperatures on cold days”
    “The warming of Northern Europe is likely to be largest in winter”
    The overall warming is likely to shorten the snow season in all Europe.”
    “snow depth is likely to be reduced in most areas”
    (except in Northern Ireland)
    “in a region comprising mainly of Germany, circulation changes enhanced the warming in most models in Winter due to increase in the westerly flow”
    (Tell that to the Beast from the East)

    Course after these statements were published Europe and the UK had a series of winters described as “the worst in living memory” or “the worst since records began”.
    Classic. Experts???
    Strikes me they had to come up with a new tune.
    It took them long enough

  35. #35 BBD
    March 27, 2013

    # 31 Clown

    From the NASA link discussing the NRC report The Effects of Solar Variability on Earth’s Climate:

    In recent years, researchers have considered the possibility that the sun plays a role in global warming. After all, the sun is the main source of heat for our planet. The NRC report suggests, however, that the influence of solar variability is more regional than global. The Pacific region is only one example.

    Caspar Amman of NCAR noted in the report that “When Earth’s radiative balance is altered, as in the case of a change in solar cycle forcing, not all locations are affected equally. The equatorial central Pacific is generally cooler, the runoff from rivers in Peru is reduced, and drier conditions affect the western USA.”

    Raymond Bradley of UMass, who has studied historical records of solar activity imprinted by radioisotopes in tree rings and ice cores, says that regional rainfall seems to be more affected than temperature. “If there is indeed a solar effect on climate, it is manifested by changes in general circulation rather than in a direct temperature signal.” This fits in with the conclusion of the IPCC and previous NRC reports that solar variability is NOT the cause of global warming over the last 50 years.

    You should read the material you link more carefully. Some pratfalls might be avoided.

    Who can remember the 80s. That was 30 odd years ago. Was it glam-rock then?
    Whats going on now?

    This is.

  36. #36 chek
    March 27, 2013

    Redschnozz, a simple question, for a simple press-fed fact person.

    What do you suppose is most in error; AGW as defined by the IPCC, or your (mis)understanding of it?

  37. #37 Olaus Petri
    March 27, 2013

    Frist Chek, weather isn’t climate. Got it? And second: the no significant global warming in 15 years is an average. Got it?

    By the way, who taught you that regional is global? Your lobals, ergo the lower hemispheres? ;-)

  38. #38 BBD
    March 27, 2013

    Clown

    Feulner & Rahmstorf (2010)

    The current exceptionally long minimum of solar activity has led to the suggestion that the Sun might experience a new grand minimum in the next decades, a prolonged period of low activity similar to the Maunder minimum in the late 17th century. The Maunder minimum is connected to the Little Ice Age, a time of markedly lower temperatures, in particular in the Northern hemisphere. Here we use a coupled climate model to explore the effect of a 21st-century grand minimum on future global temperatures, finding a moderate temperature offset of no more than −0.3°C in the year 2100 relative to a scenario with solar activity similar to recent decades. This temperature decrease is much smaller than the warming expected from anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions by the end of the century.

    Pretty picture.

    Discussion at your favorite climate site.

  39. #39 BBD
    March 27, 2013

    Olaus Petri, are you blind?

  40. #40 Olaus Petri
    March 27, 2013

    Dear BBD, here is your problem (big) in a nutshell:

    “We seek it here, we seek it there,
    Those warmists seek it everywhere.
    Is it in heaven?—Is it in hell?
    That demmed, elusive climate disruptionell” ;-)

    And I’ll bet the science is settled as well? ;-)

  41. #41 chek
    March 27, 2013

    Olaus Petri, are you blind?

    No, he’s just clueless and ignorant.
    Oh, and Olap, a snappy dismissal viz weather/climate does NOT provide an answer to where the heat has been coming from during your beloved but mistaken, ‘hiatus’.

    But then I’ve grown to expect nothing but flippant dishonesty and trash ‘facts’ from deniers.

  42. #42 BBD
    March 27, 2013
  43. #43 Lionel A
    March 27, 2013

    RedNoseDuff only reads part of an article looking for cherries and missed this:

    Heavy snow will return occasionally, says Dr Viner, but when it does we will be unprepared. “We’re really going to get caught out. Snow will probably cause chaos in 20 years time,” he said.

    Considering that Arctic Ea ice melt conditions have accelerated faster than anticipated back then only the timescale was in error.

    Note also that I exhorted you to discover more about this and have provided links. Sorry that the reading matter found there is not so easy as Janet & John.

  44. #44 Olaus Petri
    March 27, 2013

    What heat chek? The regional or the non global one?

    But in the shaking climate scare tent reality is no for sola scriptura.

  45. #45 chek
    March 27, 2013

    What heat chek? The regional or the non global one?

    Why both of course. Don’t they direct you to real information in your denier shadow world, Olap?

  46. #46 Wow
    March 27, 2013

    “What heat chek? The regional or the non global one?”

    Go on, you guess. Here’s a hint, lappy, global warming.

  47. #47 chek
    March 27, 2013

    Ooops – skipped correcting Olap the Buffoon’s non-sequitur. #44
    “What heat chek? The regional or the non global one?”
    ..and answered at #45

  48. #48 jerryg
    March 27, 2013
  49. #49 BBD
    March 27, 2013

    Olaus Petri

    You astonish me.

    What heat chek? The regional or the non global one?

    This *global* one. The one I keep referencing for you.

    This goes beyond mere stupidity.

  50. #50 chek
    March 28, 2013

    This goes beyond mere stupidity.

    But it is useful to know what they’re being fed. And how stupid they need to be to not only accept it but proselytise it to the world like the true fuckwitted believers they are to a man.

  51. #51 Jeff Harvey
    March 28, 2013

    “Dear Jeff, good to see that you finally got the distincion between climate and weather.”

    Its too bad Olaus that you can’t. At the scales being discussed, cherry picking at selected intervals of 15 or 16 years is nothing more than another intellectually dishonest exercise by climate change deniers. And in the context of a normally stable system, its the blink of a geological eye. The climate system has been pretty stable over the past 10,000 years as pointed out in Robert’s TED lecture. At the global level plus or minus 1 degree C. Now idiots like you are bleating on about 15 years.

    Again all this shows is that you do not understand the importance of temporal hierarchies or scale. But then again, I have asked you for over a year what you scientific background is Olaus and this question has been consistently avoided. We all know why, the same as for your hero, Jonas. Neither of you have any scientific pedigree. We can add Rednose to that. He is brazenly confident, in spite of having his ass kicked over and over again here. Like you, he routinely steps around each ritual humiliation and goes on to a new topic.

  52. #52 Rednose
    UK
    March 28, 2013

    Heavy snow will return occasionally, says Dr Viner
    Yeah
    He really was expecting it to return in such good measure 5-6 years on the trot with more likely to come.

  53. #53 Karen
    March 28, 2013

    Jeffery hasn’t seen a 10000 yr temperature chart.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Holocene_Temperature_Variations.png

    Plenty of other charts show the same thing, except for the dodgy ones grafted in by “The Team” for propaganda purpose’s.

    While I’m at it here is a paper that demonstrates that there is nothing unusual about an ice free Arctic.

    LOL, your such a nuffie Jeffery

    http://bprc.osu.edu/geo/publications/mckay_etal_CJES_08.pdf

  54. #54 Rednose
    UK
    March 28, 2013

    From the NASA link discussing the NRC report The Effects of Solar Variability on Earth’s Climate:

    Yes I read the complete article, but did not quote specific bits.
    So you minequote it with your narrow minded viewpoint.

    It also said:

    There is, however, a dawning realization among researchers that even these apparently tiny variations can have a significant effect on terrestrial climate

    Of particular importance is the sun’s extreme ultraviolet (EUV) radiation, which peaks during the years around solar maximum. Within the relatively narrow band of EUV wavelengths, the sun’s output varies not by a minuscule 0.1%, but by whopping factors of 10 or more. This can strongly affect the chemistry and thermal structure of the upper atmosphere

    In other words, solar activity felt in the upper atmosphere can, through a complicated series of influences, push surface storm tracks off course.

    Dont be such a blockhead. Wake up and smell the coffee

  55. #55 Karen
    March 28, 2013

    Hi Rednose, I found this article while browsing and thought you might like to read it :)

    http://dailybail.com/home/why-wind-power-wont-work.html

  56. #56 Rednose
    UK
    March 28, 2013

    So we get feable excuse after feable excuse for the crap predictions.

    What about this one made in 2007, ignored so far
    “in a region comprising mainly of Germany, circulation changes enhanced the warming in most models in Winter due to increase in the westerly flow”
    (Tell that to the Beast from the East)

    Any feeble excuse for that gem

    Again all this shows is that you do not understand the importance of temporal hierarchies
    Pratting on about Time Lords again. Such a Dr Who fan.

  57. #57 Rednose
    UK
    March 28, 2013

    Hi Karen
    They seem to be toppling over here too in 50mph winds.
    And the 25 year projected life seems to be a more realistic 12-15 years adding to the maintenance costs.
    Still we must be seen to be doing something.

  58. #58 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    So when Australia is having the hottest summer they’ve had for ages, this proves AGW.

    Or does this only go one way?

  59. #59 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    “He really was expecting it to return in such good measure”

    It’s causing chaos.

    Hell, look at your frightened mein on the appearance of it.

  60. #60 Karen
    March 28, 2013

    I’m thinking this guy must be a friend of Jeffery’s. http://newsweekly.com.au/article.php?id=2439

    There is some really disturbed whacko’s that believe the CO2 propaganda.

    If you read about that dippy it may be of concern to the cranks in here that he just might be trying to fulfill his dream and kill you all.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/galveston-texas-biolab-loses-deadly-guanarito-virus/story?id=18809363#.UVIO4Rc3uSp

  61. #61 FrankD
    March 28, 2013

    Nice work by Kazza, she’s really got Arctic Sea Ice worked out, by golly.

    Her latest is up to standard previously seen with her less-is-more nonsense about Svalbard the last time she hung out here for any length.

    Her “while I’m at it” paper shows that sea ice coverage is now lower than at any time in the last 9500 years. The modern duration for <50% coverage is pegged at 10.5 months per year (+/- 1 month) while the previous higest values since the end of the last ice age were below 10.

    I wonder if she even reads what she links to here? Or perhaps she just hope no one else does. She's been posting here for a few years, and not a single word she's said has stood even the most cursory scrutiny.

    She's like a posterchild for the term "fuckwit". And sooo proud of it.

  62. #62 Lotharsson
    March 28, 2013

    I wonder if she even reads what she links to here?

    Sunspot is famous for clown trolling – posting material time after time that refuted the claims that Sunspot asserted the material supported. Karen is either the same poster – or has the same modus operandi, and OP isn’t much better.

  63. #63 Jeff Harvey
    March 28, 2013

    Note how Karen’s latest graph supports exactly what I said and what Roberts says in his TED lecture: over the past 10,000 years temperatures have been quite stable (plus or minus 1 C). And Arctic sea ice? Note the article cited by Karen says that sea ice may have been as low as at the end of the 20th centruy. What about 2012, Karen, and the years 2000-2012 when sea ice extent plummeted and reached cover way below 2000 levels?

    Either you cannot read graphs and plain English or you are just plainly stupid. How about both?

  64. #64 Jeff Harvey
    March 28, 2013

    BTW Karen, at which educational/research institute do you work?

    My guess the closest is a mental hospital. Correct?

  65. #65 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    “There is some really disturbed whacko’s that believe the CO2 propaganda.”

    You, for example, spots. You believe the propoganda that AGW is all a communist scam to rob you/black people of money to give to black people/white people (delete as appropriate for the bigotry or wish to avoid it for the speaker).

  66. #66 Lionel A
    March 28, 2013

    He really was expecting it to return in such good measure 5-6 years on the trot with more likely to come.

    What part of ‘Climate CHANGE’ do you NOT understand?

    Ah! Pretty much all of its parts.

    BTW I get the feeling that this sock is not Duff, unless the latter has had a sudden infusion of active brain cells.

  67. #67 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    “What part of ‘Climate CHANGE’ do you NOT understand?”

    The bit that makes their libertarian free-market religion a problem.

  68. #68 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    He really was expecting it to return in such good measure 5-6 years on the trot with more likely to come.

    No, this is all about what YOU are expecting. YOU “expected” no snow at all because that is what YOU were told he’d said. You are an idiot and all that statement says is confirmation of it.

    Australia has started 2013 with a record-breaking heat wave that has lasted more than two weeks across many parts of the country. Temperatures have regularly gone above 48°C, with the highest recorded maximum of 49.6°C at Moomba in South Australia.

    Explain.

  69. #69 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/the-great-heatwave-of-2013/story-e6frg6z6-1226549810192

    Explain.

    City newspapers warned of “Armageddon” as the bushfire danger in NSW reached catastrophic levels, heightened by a build-up of fuel from two cool years of heavy rain.

    Explain.

  70. #70 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    Australia adds new colour to temperature maps as heat soars

    Forecast temperatures are so extreme that the Bureau of Meteorology has had to add a new colour to its scale. It is a sign of things to come

    Explain.

  71. #71 Karen
    March 28, 2013

    Oh Fwanker, I see your still blinded blinded by the faith.

    “Modern sea-ice cover in the study area, expressed here as the
    number of months/year with >50% coverage, averages 10.6 ±
    1.2months/year (cf. 1954–2001 data from NSIDC; nsidc.org/
    data/docs/noaa/g00799_arctic_southern_sea_ice/). Present-day SST and SSS in August are 1.1 ± 2.48C and 28.5 ±
    1.3, respectively (NODC 2001 World Ocean Atlas; www.
    nodc.noaa.gov/OC5/WOA01/woa01dat.html). In the Holo-cene record of core HLY0501-05, sea-ice cover has ranged
    between 5.5 and 9 months/year, summer SSS has varied
    between 22 and 30, and summer SST has ranged from 3
    to 7.5 8C (Fig. 7).”

    dream on fwanker :)

  72. #72 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    So you can’t explain, so you devolve to “Fwanker”.

    Fool.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/mar/27/climate-change-model-global-warming

    Explain.

  73. #73 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    Australia has started 2013 with a record-breaking heat wave that has lasted more than two weeks across many parts of the country. Temperatures have regularly gone above 48°C, with the highest recorded maximum of 49.6°C at Moomba in South Australia.

    Explain.

    City newspapers warned of “Armageddon” as the bushfire danger in NSW reached catastrophic levels, heightened by a build-up of fuel from two cool years of heavy rain.

    Explain.

    Australia adds new colour to temperature maps as heat soars

    Forecast temperatures are so extreme that the Bureau of Meteorology has had to add a new colour to its scale. It is a sign of things to come

    Explain.

  74. #74 Karen
    March 28, 2013

    Soooo………. no one wants to discuss their fellow cultist that wants to eradicate 90% of the population ?

    Embarrassing eh ?

  75. #75 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    Sooo…. still completely clueless as to what’s going on, Spots.

    Embarrassing, eh?

  76. #76 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    And why do you want to eradicate 90% of the human population, spots?

  77. #77 Karen
    March 28, 2013

    I live and travel quite a bit in oz woW,
    Many people accross the country, including myself, do not believe the dodgy temperature data, I’m sure you have been referenced to the work done at http://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/

    As for the bushfires !!!

    The problem here is the whacko greenie mindset that has permeated our government, the major reason towns are now being burnt out is because we dont burn off and creat fire breaks around towns anymore.

    Why ? Because the WHACKO GREENIES that live in the cities put a stop to it, personally I think that for every innocent person that is burnt to death in a bushfire, a greenie should be burnt at the stake as a form of compensation, then they might come to their senses.

    But you wouldn’t know anything about bushfires would you woW, your currently freezing in a once in a hundred year winter snow, or is it spring yet ?

    Oh thats right ???? THE CO2 MAKES IT HOTTER SO IT SNOWZZZZZZ

  78. #78 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    “I live and travel quite a bit in oz woW,”

    Who cares?

    ” Australia adds new colour to temperature maps as heat soars

    Forecast temperatures are so extreme that the Bureau of Meteorology has had to add a new colour to its scale. It is a sign of things to come”

    Explain.

  79. #79 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    “Oh thats right ???? THE CO2 MAKES IT HOTTER SO IT SNOWZZZZZZ”

    No, that’s not the explanation.

    PS According to Watts, it’s so cold CO2 rains out of the sky…

  80. #80 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    “As for the bushfires !!!”

    What “As for the bushfires”? I never talked about it.

    You don’t know what you’re reading, never mind what it means.

  81. #81 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    “Why ? Because the WHACKO GREENIES that live in the cities put a stop to it”

    So is your explanation for the heatwave that greenies put a stop to cold weather???

  82. #82 Karen
    March 28, 2013

    I reckon you have mike mann’s photo beside your bed woW

  83. #83 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    “Why ? Because the WHACKO GREENIES that live in the cities put a stop to it”

    So there weren’t any bushfires before “greenies” stopped them?

  84. #84 BBD
    March 28, 2013

    # 54 Clown

    Feeble! You didn’t RTFR, did you?

    And because you came back with more drivel, I’m going to make you eat it.

    From the Preface to the NRC report:

    The modulation of stratospheric temperatures [by EUV] is clear from observations. Climate models also take this modulation as input and have demonstrated significant perturbations on tropospheric circulations. If borne out by future studies and shown to be of sufficient magnitude, this mechanism could be an important pathway in the Sun-climate connection, particularly in terms of regional impacts. However, it is important to realize that, unlike the bottom-up mechanism, it can in itself contribute very little to global temperature variations.

    [...]

    Ongoing discussion of the role of solar variations in the early 20th century has given rise to the unfounded conjecture that the observed increase in temperature in the last half century could also be due to changes in TSI rather than to anthropogenic influences. The IPCC Fourth Assessment and the recent National Research Council report on climate choices agree that there is no substantive scientific evidence that solar variability is the cause of climate change in the last 50 years. However, the mechanisms by which solar variations can affect climate over longer timescales remain an open area of research.

    So, hypothesised EUV stratospheric effects on regional atmospheric circulation *if real at all* do not significantly change GAT or global OHC. This is from the primary source of your own link!

    Dont be such a blockhead. Wake up and smell the coffee

    Read your own references, Clown.

  85. #85 BBD
    March 28, 2013

    Karen

    Waving at Arctic sea ice extent during the Holocene Climatic Optimum isn’t too clever. The HCO was the mainly NH response to precessional forcing which peaked ~9ka and reached a minimum ~2ka.

    If Arctic sea ice approaches or exceeds HCO minima the obvious question is WTF is going on? We are a the bottom of the precessional forcing curve now.

    Do you understand this?

  86. #87 Karen
    March 28, 2013

    So BBD, you subscribe to the iceage cometh theory do you ?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles#Present_and_future_conditions

  87. #88 Karen
    March 28, 2013

    Oh my gorwd, BBD

    sheez ??? another religo

    you know that red line is crappola !!!!

  88. #89 Karen
    March 28, 2013

    All you boys seem to have an uncontrollable fascination for stiffies on the end of dodgy temperature graphs.

    You all really are sick a bunch of cranks.

  89. #90 Jeff Harvey
    March 28, 2013

    I will reiterate what I said earlier: Karen posts up articles and links she/he/it does not understand. I claimed there has been a stable climate for the past 10,000 years. Karen posts of a link from Wikipedia guess what – saying that. Thanks for the confirmation. She then posts up an article claiming that at various times in the Holocene sea ice extent in the Arctic may have approached levels lst by the end of the 20th century. This is of course, debatable, as many other studies disagree. But either way, we aren’t discussing the end of the 20th century. We are talking about 2007 and last year, when ice extent was reduced calamitously, Note how deniers always play with numbers.

    Them, earlier, as in keeping with the intelletually challenged idiots who call themsleves ‘sceptics’, Karen psts up this article from some far right/tea party source claiming that many scientists ‘hate people’. Oh God. If it isn’t the watermelon analogy, its the Julian-Simonesque smear that environmentalists are ‘anti-people’ simply because their views fall outside of the realm of the far-right libertarian clans.

    Bucket-heads like Karen resort to this kind of infantile nonsense when their arguments are exposed for what they are: bilge. Sure I loathe people who distort and twist science to bolster economic and political agendas, and the far right has been doing that for years. But the real ‘anti-human’ brigade are precisley those who are willing to gamble on the health of our global ecological life-support systems in bolstering their beliefs in supposedly free markets (they are not free) and the current capitalist model which is driving social injustice and environmental destrcution in equal measure. They whine about the poor whilst voting for and supporting the political agendas of groups that embrace policies designed to look after the privileged few. And it should be obvious that poverty eradication has never been a priority of elites, in spite of the hard-wired rhetoric.

    I have asked Karen and the other few semi-literate deniers here what scientific bonafides they bring to the table. I ask this because, like it or not, if one’s views run counter to the overwhelming mainstream view, then they must possess some hidden acument that enbales them to know more about climate science (indeed ANY science), than the ones trained in the field.

    The fact is that the vast majority of qualified scientists – myself included – agree (1) that humans are forcing changes in climate that exceed pevious events in scale in many hundreds of thousands or millions of years at the very least, and (2) that, given the potential consequernces, we ought to be doing something about it. This consensus – because that is what it is – is proven by the fact that every National Academy of Science in every nation on Earth has issued statements alluding to this fact, and (20 because the empircal literaure is heavily weighted towards studies supporting the theory of AGW ( >99%). The only refuge for scoundrels is on blogs, but few of these are operated by actual bonafide scientists; the scientists on the denier side are not only few and far between, but even most of these have poor CVs with low numbers of citations and few publications. Credentials for the poster boy for AGW denial, Richard Lindzen, are forever trumpeted by deier blogs, but my own research was cited 200 times more than Lindzen’s research last year. I wonder when Karen is going to call Lindzen a ‘cultist’?

    So what are the qualifications of Karen, Olaus, Rednose, Jonas, PentaxZ et al? Fancy a guess? They don’t have any! None! Nix! For all we know, they all stopped doing science when they left high school. If they did have any kind of relevant education we’d know all about it. Oh yeh. They’d be screaming it from the rooftops. One denier on another cite angrily told me he had a BA at Oxford University, as if that lent credibility to his denier views. And don’t forget how much the deniers try and bloat the credentials of a few mostly medicore scientists who are deniers. So when Olaus writes in about me “waving my CV”, he is doing it precisely because he hasn’t got one. Deniers forver falunt the CVs of deniers, but when it is thrown back in their face, they fall back to the Olaus-type argument.

    As I said, I have attended many scientific conferences and in every one of them AGW is a major theme. And the issue is taken as a given: the talks are not about the extent of the human fingerprint but about the potentially severe consequences of inaction and of the costs already being manifested on natural systems. So to those who are on the outside, don’t think for a moment that AGW is some controversial branch of climate science. It isn’t. At present the effects are beinbg investigated, and much attention is being paid to scenarios based on different course of action to deal with it.

  90. #91 Jeff Harvey
    March 28, 2013

    “You all really are sick a bunch of cranks”

    Hilarious. This coming from someone whose views fall light years outside of the scientific mainstream. Again, if Karen were to speak at a scientific conference and spew out the kind of nonsense she does here, she’d be vanquished in seconds. Its so easy to use a hit and run strategy on blogs, but this also explains why deniers areseen as laughingstocks for the most part by people in the heart of the scientific community.

  91. #92 Karen
    March 28, 2013

    More and more people are waking up to the fact that the climate industry is following the same path as the tobacco and pharmaceutical industries, so beat your chest all you want “mr oh i’m so fantastic”, you spew so much verbal diarrhea a town could be run off the methane, lol

  92. #93 BBD
    March 28, 2013

    # 85 Karen

    So BBD, you subscribe to the iceage cometh theory do you ?

    Yup, until a better explanation for the orbitally paced termination of glacials comes along, I’m with old Milutin on this!

    Why is temperature and Arctic sea ice behaving as if we are back in the HCO again. Except without the precessional forcing? I do dislike having to repeat myself unnecessarily, so please answer the fucking question this time.

    ***
    You are fractally clueless, aren’t you? See Archer & Ganopolski (2005) A movable trigger: Fossil fuel CO2 and the onset of the next glaciation.

  93. #94 BBD
    March 28, 2013

    you know that red line is crappola !!!!

    No substantial errors have yet been demonstrated in M13. But being clueless at all levels, you wouldn’t realise this, would you?

    The denialati have so far only succeeded in demonstrating their own ignorance of paleo proxy interpretation and their profound intellectual dishonesty.

    But being clueless at all levels, you don’t realise that you are being lied to and manipulated, do you?

  94. #95 Jeff Harvey
    March 28, 2013

    Karen really is losing it. She writes:

    “More and more people are waking up to the fact that the climate industry is following the same path as the tobacco and pharmaceutical industries”

    when in reality it should say:

    “More and more people are waking up to the fact that the climate change DENIAL industry is following the same path as the tobacco and pharmaceutical industries”

    Certainly many of the people in denying the ill-effects of tobacco are the same ones denying AGW.

    You are a hoot though, Karen. Clearly an intellectual wannabe but a failure.

  95. #96 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    “So BBD, you subscribe to the iceage cometh theory do you ?”

    So you ask stupid questions, do you?

  96. #97 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    “You all really are sick a bunch of cranks”

    Hell, spots, you’re the ones wanting people to die off rather than change the way they do things.

  97. #98 Wow
    March 28, 2013

    “I reckon you have mike mann’s photo beside your bed woW”

    Yup, you’re pegging accuracy at zero or less.

  98. #99 BBD
    March 28, 2013

    I’ve just looked back over this and it gets worse with every reading ;-)

    [# 53 Karen]

    Jeffery hasn’t seen a 10000 yr temperature chart.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Holocene_Temperature_Variations.png

    Plenty of other charts show the same thing, except for the dodgy ones grafted in by “The Team” for propaganda purpose’s [sic].

    [#86 BBD demonstrates Marcott in good agreement with other Holocene reconstructions, using same Wiki graph]

    [# 88 Karen]

    Oh my gorwd, BBD

    sheez ??? another religo

    you know that red line is crappola !!!!

    That’s right folks. The red line in good agreement with the Wiki graph that Karen was waving about earlier!. *That* red line from M13!

    WTF? This is completely contradictory blathering.

    [# 61 FrankD]

    She’s like a posterchild for the term “fuckwit”. And sooo proud of it.

    ;-)

  99. #100 Ian Forrester
    March 28, 2013

    Karen shows that she is typical of the right wing anti-science brigade. She quotes an article which completely misinterprets what Eric Pianka actually said.

    Here is a link to an honest and scientifically accurate rebuttal. You will see that the author of the article Karen quoted used typical junk-science tactics including quote mining and distortion.

    http://thequestionableauthority.blogspot.ca/2006/04/seguin-gazette-enterprise-and.html

    It is interesting that I didn’t even have to do a Google search since a long time ago I had already bookmarked a folder on the distortions of Pianka’s talk.