April 2013 Open Thread

More thread.

Comments

  1. #1 chek
    April 12, 2013

    I suppose a malformed link containing the modifier ‘sortby’ is as indicative of a malformed argument as anything.

  2. #2 BBD
    April 12, 2013

    @ Olaus Petri

    You seem to belong to the same school of compartmentalised “thinking” attended by our Kaz.

    You apparently believe that increasing GAT (SST, LST, tropospheric T) will not have any effects on evaporation/precipitation etc.

    Please explain why not.

  3. #3 Nick
    April 13, 2013

    So Olap has discovered glacial retreat! He is coming along,though glacially.

    What was that about the Rhonegletscher,Ollie?

  4. #4 Nick
    April 13, 2013

    #98. Ollie,I’ve explained to you already that the ‘scale comprehension’ problem is yours alone….like a good idiot you have taken the NOAA Drought Task Force report on drought on a tightly defined area,and not noticed that it was ‘drought-within-a-drought’,something which the report poorly conveyed . So your comprehensional insufficiency will explain your scale problem.

  5. #5 bill
    April 13, 2013

    Petrie like Karen?

    You mean that famous pratfall duo, Spam and Ollie?

  6. #6 Bernard J.
    April 13, 2013

    Way back here at #18 on page 5 KarenMackSunspot claimed record low temperatures for Tasmania in July 2012, as if to prove a cold winter.

    KMS is either an uneducated ignoramus, or a liar, or quite likely both.

    As others have noted Tasmania’s winter last year was much warmer than average. Quite aside from the evidence of thermometers, nature itself reflected the unusually warm conditions. The local cherries flowered two weeks earlier here than they regularly did until a few years ago, and last year the spur-winged plovers had (and successfully raised) chicks in July, when they have previously always been commencing their first incubation just before mid-August. The European wasps, which are usually viciously culled by winters here, survived very well thank you, and were still raiding the compost bins three months later than they usually completely disappear.

    Ask the fishers how many new species they’re catching, that previously only occurred hundreds of kilometres further north. And a digression – summers here are now so warm that the east-coast kelp forests almost completely disappear in some places by February, in part directly from the highly unusual warm water temperatures, and partly from the sea urchin plagues those temperatures enable. My contacts at IMAS are starting to discuss a time in the near future when they will be functionally extinct ecosystems.

    Back to last year’s winter… My sister and brother-in-law used half of the usual amount of wood for heating, and my gloves and scarf remained in the wardrobe the whole winter, and were not used once. Usually they’re gainfully employed for at least six weeks each year.

    KarenMackSunspot might like to pretend that he has some grasp of a higher reality than that of the scientific concensus, but empirical data show that KMS is simply full of shit.

  7. #7 bill
    April 13, 2013

    It’s telling that the primary source for that list comes from someone whose first ‘Climate Thought Starter’ is a link is to a discussion of one of Don Easterbrook’s famous charts that not only holds Greenland to be the entire world, it has 1855 as the present!

    Hence the ludicrous claim that ‘[f]or most of the past 10,000 years the earth was warmer than today’s temperatures’.

    Wrong. No ifs, no buts, no maybes – just wrong.

    Need one go on? The simple answer to the blog title – ‘Is there global cooling?’ – is ‘no’.

    Cranks take note : there is only one debate, and that’s the one about ECS. You’re not winning it. All this ‘it’s actually cooling, treely-ruly’ stuff is just emotive noise tailored to reassure angry dullards.

  8. #8 FrankD
    April 13, 2013

    Nick @#3 FTW!

    Great website, shame it’s really a testament to stupidity…but that make it perfect for Mäster Olof.

  9. #9 Karen
    April 13, 2013

    Maybe you have a infection of some type barnturd ? That could explain why you didn’t need to wear your little scarfy and gloveywoveys, or maybe you have a thyroid problem ? What sex are you barnturd, I’m now assuming female.
    Buy your brother in law a new chainsaw with all that money you made from your bet.

    http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/climate/change/trendmaps.cgi?map=tmean&area=aus&season=0112&period=1910

    barnturd resides in banjo country, right down the bottom of oz, that could be why feces is constantly dribbling out of her posts in here.

    1910 – 2012 trend in mean temperature for Tasmania = 0.05 deg C

    1910 – 2012 trend in maximum temperature for Tasmania = 0.05 deg C

    1910 – 2012 trend in minimum temperature for Tasmania = 0.05 deg C

    THAT’S…………ZERO POINT ZERO FIVE of a trend from 1910

    sssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeez

  10. #10 Nick
    April 13, 2013

    Oh,Karen,Gimp of the Thermosphere…reflux again,sweetie? Why didn’t you choose your preferred timeseries plot?

  11. #11 Wow
    April 13, 2013

    2011-2012 trend 0.6C per decade, spots.

    and that’s GLOBAL temperatures.

  12. #12 Nick
    April 13, 2013

    That’s right Wow, Kaz’s failed to read again …Tassie’s in the 0.05-0.1C per decade zone on her chart. What a dope!

  13. #13 bill
    April 13, 2013

    Yep: dumb as a Kan of Spammers!…

  14. #14 Karen
    April 13, 2013

    lol, the threee stooges :)

  15. #15 Karen
    April 13, 2013

    ” Formerly the waters about Spitzbergen have held an even summer temperature in the neighbourhood of 5 degrees above freezing. This year it rose as high as 28 degrees. Last winter the ocean did not freeze over even on the north coast of Spitzbergen. This is on the authority of Dr……………………

    http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2013/04/12/is-the-north-pole-going-to-melt-entirely-asks-newspaper-in-1923/

    may zing :)

  16. #16 Karen
    April 13, 2013

    “PEARY AND ASTRUP.
    Later on Peary and Astrup crossed the island much further north and had to climb a solid hill of ice about 3000 feet high. But there was not always an ice cap. In time long gone by the region about the North Pole had a warm climate and all of Greenland was covered with a luxuriant tropical vegetation. This is positively known because fossil remains of palms,breadfruit trees, and other plants properly belonging to warm latitudes have been dug up there in quantities. It seems at least possible that the extra-ordinary warmth in the Arctic during the last few years marks a step in return to this condition. Such a change as that suggested cannot be suddenly or even rapidly accomplished; but if there shall come a time when the North Pole ice cap is entirely melted, and Greenland incidentally freed of the ice sheet which covers it, other latitudes will also experience a wonderful climatic alteration, and climates all over the world may become steadily and gradually warmer.”

    http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2013/04/12/is-the-north-pole-going-to-melt-entirely-asks-newspaper-in-1923/

  17. #17 Wow
    April 13, 2013

    More impotent spam.

  18. #18 chek
    April 13, 2013

    It’s actually quite hard to impossible to gauge the depth of stupidity personified by SpamKan, although the obligatory crank-link is a good indication.

    Does it imagine any of those factoids are unknown? Or have any inkling of the consequences of #16? I doubt it.

  19. #19 bill
    April 13, 2013

    That’ll be the ether crank, then?

  20. #20 Karen
    April 13, 2013

    “Monday May 2 2005 The warning from US scientists that warming at the present rate over 10,000 years would cause sea levels to rise by a kilometre………………….

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2005/apr/29/environment.society

    lol

  21. #21 Olaus Petri
    April 13, 2013

    Nooooooooo……

    “Characterized by marked temperature variability, our records provide evidence that temperatures during the MWP were slightly higher than the modern period in this region. Further, our temperature reconstructions, within age uncertainty, can be well correlated with solar irradiance changes, suggesting a possible link between solar forcing and natural climate variability, at least on the northern Tibetan Plateau.”

    http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11434-012-5619-8#page-1

    These scales are indeed troubleseome. ;-)

  22. #22 chek
    April 13, 2013

    Do you actually understand anything, Olap?
    Such as there is no solar forcing driving the current warming? Didn’t think so.

    The only scales you need be worrying about are the ones covering your eyes. But you’re likely stuck with your level of stupidity.

  23. #23 BBD
    April 13, 2013

    O’Louse

    Answer # 2 please.

    Chek and I have both pointed out that there is no solar-forced component to recent warming. And the Tibetan plateau is a *region*, fuckwit.

    Mind you, I have little doubt that you are of the cretinous herd that believes – despite a complete absence of evidence – that the so-called “MWP” was synchronous and global and warmer than the present.

    You do believe this, don’t you? Despite all the evidence demonstrating that the so-called “MWP” was made up of a series of regional and asynchronous warming events spread over ~400y and mainly confined to the NH.

  24. #24 Rednose
    UK
    April 13, 2013

    “Further, our temperature reconstructions, within age uncertainty, can be well correlated with solar irradiance changes, suggesting a possible link between solar forcing and natural climate variability,”

    How many is this now?
    Is it more than 3?
    :-)

  25. #25 BBD
    April 13, 2013

    Tiresome, Rednoise, tiresome:

    suggesting a possible link between solar forcing and natural climate variability, at least on the northern Tibetan Plateau.

    Regional solar effect, not global!!!

    How stupid are you, exactly?

  26. #26 Nick
    April 13, 2013

    Ollie is not a reader…tends to stop at the abstract.

    We argue that it is the dramatic hydrological changes in the Qaidam basin that amplify the temperature signal recorded in lake waters,which allow our clear identification of temperature change patterns during the Late Holocene. Also if elevated warming in NW China is a natural response to climate warming,then any warming trend especially the recent global warming could lead to a significant high temperature over northwestern China and perhaps cause a serious economic and ecological loss.

    Lots of caveats in the paper,as is only appropriate. There is 600 years of serious discrepancy between solar recon and lake record that they apparently ignore,and a fair few divergences between the lakes in timing and lengths of warmth ..quantitive estimation of warmth from our records is challenging. Indeed it is: three different lake environments [one used as a reference from another paper],with the two cored in this study varying greatly in depth and size over time,which will affect warming estimates. They acknowledge a very large potential dating uncertainty brought about by having to assume constant reservoir effects and sedimentation rates. So they are confident of the patterns of warming but less so of the timings and range,despite the abstract .

    Meanwhile studies of Holocene glacial fluctuations on the Tibetan Plateau 500 to 1000km south of the Quidam Basin show many glaciers were advancing during good parts of the period identified as warm in the lake study.

  27. #27 BBD
    April 13, 2013

    And how dishonest? Clipping the end off that quote the way you did is ridiculously blatant. You do realise this just makes you look like a shit, don’t you?

  28. #28 BBD
    April 13, 2013

    Why are we talking about this anyway? All Rednoise is trying to do is force a false equivalence between the so-called “MWP” and recent warming. So what if solar variability was all or part of the cause of the “MWP”. It is demonstrably not the principal cause of modern warming.

  29. #29 FrankD
    April 13, 2013

    Seriously? Karen’s actually going back to Spitzbergen to diss anthropogenic climate change? Seriously?

    Just like in Proverbs 26:11: “As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

    If last time was anything to go by, this is going to be a hoot! I’m getting the popcorn…

  30. #30 Wow
    April 13, 2013

    “Do you actually understand anything, Olap?”

    Either a “Hell no” or a “Couldn’t give a shit about the truth”, really, isn’t it.

  31. #31 Wow
    April 13, 2013

    “Regional solar effect, not global!!!

    How stupid are you, exactly?”

    His stupidity is over 9000!

  32. #32 BBD
    April 13, 2013

    What’s even more irritating is that Rednoise is still noising about “more than three”, when #1 and # 2 on his list were outed as industry shills many days ago.

    Worse still, Rednoise was fooled TWICE by the chummers over the matter of two GAZPROM spokespersons by the names of Bashkin & Galiullin. He only got to # 3 by inadvertently double-counting B & G! What a clown, eh?

    Any normal person would have shrivelled with embarrassment over a mistake so obviously revealing their stupidity and laziness and abysmally poor reading comprehension but this buffoon actually pops up again and reminds us what a buffoon he truly is!

    WTF is wrong with his brain? We can only marvel and ponder.

  33. #33 Nick
    April 13, 2013

    #20… in which Kaz finds a typo ,eight years after it was corrected. Well done Kaz.

  34. #34 BBD
    April 13, 2013

    A typo in the Grauniad?!

    ;-)

  35. #35 Rednose
    uk
    April 13, 2013

    How many different papers or references have been mentioned recently here claiming a solar effect, regional or global.

    I have a poor memory. Perhaps you could recap for me.
    :-)

  36. #36 BBD
    April 13, 2013

    Bashkin & Galiullin.

    GAZPROM

    Reading comprehension issues.

    Clown.

  37. #37 BBD
    April 13, 2013

    All the solar stuff is regional and largely irrelevant.

    Apart from a few people handicapped by severe reading comprehension issues, the rest of us understand this perfectly well.

  38. #38 chek
    April 13, 2013

    I have a poor memory. Perhaps you could recap for me.

    Redarse, there’s a wonderful technology incorporated into most browsers these days called the ‘scroll bar’ (very often found towards the right edge of the ‘browser frame’ and the ‘back or previous page button’ often found at the top or bottom of the ‘message posting’. area.

    Acquiring even the most rudimentary skill with these items will not only help refresh conveniently forgotten memories, but also reduce perception of you as a whining gimp brattishly demanding others attend to your eminently ignorable needs.

  39. #39 BBD
    April 13, 2013

    Rednoise

    If that’s all a bit to complicated, there’s always [ctrl_F].

  40. #40 BBD
    April 13, 2013

    Amazing what turns up! Perhaps your memory loss is attributable to recent head injuries?

    :-)

  41. #41 Wow
    April 13, 2013

    http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2013/20130412_arcticseaice.html

    I can hear the redneck deniers heads exploding all the way from here…

  42. #42 bill
    April 13, 2013

    Speaking of The Graun

    And, yes, a disgraceful effort by Oily there, as mindlessly echoed by Brownnose.

  43. #43 Bernard J.
    April 14, 2013

    Sunspot, who has previously masqueraded as ‘Mack, and now cross-dresses as ‘Karen’…

    You have a pathological issue with inconvenient truths, don’t you? Being presented with such sends you into a frenzy of Tourettes, and ironically induces you to project on to me your own transvestitism.

    Scream as frantically as you must, it won’t change the facts. Tasmania is extraordinarily warm these days compared with the past, and it is manifesting on land and in the oceans. You have no direct experience of the climate here, so pardon me if I call your nonsense for the bogus shit that it is.

    http://www.redmap.org.au/article/sea-temperatures-and-climate-change-in-tasmania/

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022098111000803

  44. #44 FrankD
    April 14, 2013

    Since Kazza is such an authority on Spitsbergen, she will know that the highest official temperature ever recorded there was 21.3 recorded in 1979. How does she square that with the claim of 28 degrees for 1923?

    I’m sure her response will dazzle us all… :-)

    Oooh, my popcorn’s ready! Yum!

  45. #45 Karen
    April 14, 2013

    I’m surprised that you weren’t taught about the 28 deg C at church brother fwanker :)

    http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/93423060?searchTerm=melting%20glaciers&searchLimits=

    Dr. Adolf Hoel, professor of geology in the University of Christiania, should be a climate change cult hero to you fwanker, after all he is one of the many warmers that first told the world about the melting Arctic all those years ago.

    This IS inconvenient information tho, that is why I posted it fwanker, does it upset your little theory that the Arctic ice has never melted before ?

    So why did it melt ?

  46. #46 Karen
    April 14, 2013

    barnturd………pffffttttt

    what was the temperature in Tas 2000 yrs ago ?

  47. #47 Wow
    April 14, 2013

    Yeah, “pffftttt” is about all your posts are able to manage, spots.

  48. #48 Wow
    April 14, 2013

    “what was the temperature in Tas 2000 yrs ago ?”

    Hey, Olap, dog, spots is using weather instead of climate again!

  49. #49 Karen
    April 14, 2013

    woW, you are licking barnturds bum

  50. #50 Wow
    April 14, 2013

    Observations to that effect have covered the last five years during which the warmth has been steadily increasing

    So, since you agree with the paper in toto, you’re agreeing that the climate is changing.

    Are the Arctic regions warming up with prospect of a great climatic change in that part of the world?

    You’re agreeing with the IPCC if you’re saying that this paper column is correct.

    SEALS DISAPPEAR.

    Seals, which used to be plentiful in those seas, have almost entirely disappeared. It would seem as if the ocean must have be- come uncomfortably warm for some of its denizens which formerly frequented those latitudes, causing them to flock northward towards the Pole.

    And you agree with the WG2 stuff which talks about climate change and polar bears being affected by climate change.

    And these effects were noted by science in 1923, but you and your idiot cohorts have been denying it all.

    You really don’t read a damn thing you get paid to research, do you spots.

  51. #51 Wow
    April 14, 2013

    Ah, spots, failing at trolling, tries BAD trolling.

    Shows how weak your argument is, spots, when the very best you can come up with is that.

    But you’re desperate to earn your crust, aren’t you.

  52. #52 Karen
    April 14, 2013

    woW, do you know why I always write your name backwards ?

    Because you are backwards and you always get everything backwards. lol

    So now you think that the skeptics are skeptical that it has warmed ?
    Sorry woW, what we dispute is the radical alarmizm about the CO2 cult propaganda luvvie. :)

  53. #53 Lionel A
    April 14, 2013

    Whilst the slapheads around here (we know who you are and you know who you are) are pissing into wind more signs of trouble emerge Biodiversity.

    And what the ‘usual suspects’ are trying to hide from you : Good Business. Note the remark from Susan Anderson:

    Meanwhile, Kochs are buying more pubs up. Message prevention has become the industry standard.

    .

    For the Duffers of the world ‘pubs‘ is not describing watering holes. Killing the messengers Koch (and I don’t think of that as Coke BTW) style. The Kochs should be facing trials such as Delingpole described and so should all aiders and abettors if only through ‘the stupid’ like the aforementioned slapheads here.

  54. #54 Nick
    April 14, 2013

    The article that Karen has dug up from Trove is no doubt syndicated material,here reproduced in an Australian regional newspaper, so temperatures would be in Farenheit.
    It suggests that summer water temperatures are normally about 5F above freezing [ 2.8C] and had reached as high as ’28 degrees above freezing’ = 60F/15.5C.

    Land ice on Svalbard was known to be retreating at the time of the article. The islands have been well studied for the last century.

  55. #56 Nick
    April 14, 2013

    No need to apologise,Karen,it’s in an Aussie paper. Australia used the Farenheit scale at the time. There is no way that SSTs of 28C would be recorded around Svalbard. The sea will never reach that warmth at that latitude.

  56. #57 Karen
    April 14, 2013

    You might find sumfin here fwanker

    http://www.uio.no/english/?vrtx=searchuio&query=Adolf+Hoel

    Somehow I thing this guy would know how to read and record temperature, unlike the hopeless temp data we have seen of late.

    “The geologist Adolf Hoel was the leading Svalbard researcher in the first half of the 20th century. He conducted geological fieldwork in Svalbard every summer during the period 1907-1926 and made a comprehensive mapping of the geology of Svalbard. In 1911 he started his long-term career at the University of Oslo. Besides his work as an associate professor at the university, he was instrumental in the establishment in 1928 of Norges Svalbard- og Ishavsundersøkelser (Norway´s Svalbard and Arctic Ocean Research Survey), which he headed until 1945.”

    http://www.nhm.uio.no/english/research/arctic/

  57. #58 Nick
    April 14, 2013

    So Kaz, do you agree that it’s converted to Farenheit? Yes or no?

  58. #59 Wow
    April 14, 2013

    “woW, do you know why I always write your name backwards ?”

    Yeah, you’re thick.

  59. #60 Wow
    April 14, 2013

    Spots will never agree to anything if it doesn’t help their crusade.

    If it does, spots will agree to ANYTHING.

  60. #61 Karen
    April 14, 2013

    #58 “So Kaz, do you agree that it’s converted to Farenheit? Yes or no?”

    No

    “Formerly the waters about Spitzbergen have held an even summer temperature in the neighborhood of 5 degrees above freezing.”

    5 deg F = – 15 deg C …..this is below freezing Nick

    “This year it rose as high as 28 degrees.” 28 deg F = – 2.22 deg C ????

    Did you miss this tasty little quote Nicky ?

    “Last winter the ocean did not freeze over even on the north coast of Spitzbergen. This is on the authority of Dr Adolf Hoel

    Yep………… that quote sure does make it a sure thing that it 28 deg C

  61. #62 Karen
    April 14, 2013

    “Last winter the ocean did not freeze over even on the north coast of Spitzbergen.”

    Repeated for the fwanker, :)

  62. #63 Karen
    April 14, 2013

    woW ”

    “woW, do you know why I always write your name backwards ?”

    Yeah, you’re thick.”

    backwards woW, lol, I’m thin

  63. #64 Karen
    April 14, 2013

    bill #42

    you are a supporter of the Gates foundation !!!

    I knew you were a two faced mongrel.

    http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/9971-chemical-relations-monsanto-and-bill-and-melinda-gates-foundation

  64. #65 Nick
    April 14, 2013

    Karen you’re in a very deep hole-as usual. Because you are stupid. The report,about an August 1922 expedition is reproduced in April 1923 [news travels fast] in a regional Australian newspaper,with its temps converted to what a local would understand: degrees Farenheit

    ‘Freezing’ is 32F/0C…you know that? So five degrees F above freezing is 37F/2.8C. 32F + 28F =60F/15.5C

    The north flowing West Spitzbergen current has a mean core temperature of 2-3C reaching up to 6C in summer, it keeps Svalbard sea-ice free most of the time. Summer SSts will reach above 10C regularly.
    Average Summer SSts around Svalbard are not minus15C…nowhere in the world are SSts that low, dimshit!
    Arctic sea temps under sea ice are no colder than minus 2C. If the water north of Svalbard reached only minus 2C in summer it would still be iced up to the islands.

    Idiot.

  65. #66 Nick
    April 14, 2013

    Yep..that quote makes it a sure thing that it 28C [sic]

    28C is a typical tropical sea temperature,Kaz. Like summer in the Coral Sea or the Carribean…

  66. #67 BBD
    April 14, 2013

    Worse even than the usual blether.

    Still, at least O’Louse and Rednoise have fecked orf.

  67. #68 Jeff Harvey
    April 14, 2013

    Karen’s gone on an ignorance shotgun offensive.

    She/he/it gets continually knocked around the ring and keeps coming back for more.

    Pitiful.

  68. #69 Rednose
    UK
    April 14, 2013

    BBD#23

    “Mind you, I have little doubt that you are of the cretinous herd that believes – despite a complete absence of evidence – that the so-called “MWP” was synchronous and global and warmer than the present.”

    Well there seems to be some:
    Ljungquist 2010:
    “Temperature changes in all the investigated regions, Scandinvia, Siberia, Greenland, Central Europe, China and North America, associated with large scale weather patterns such as the MWP, occured quite coherently. Exceptional warming in the 10th century was seeen in all 6 regional reconstructions.”
    Also “The present paleotemperature proxy data records do not support the assumption that the late 20th century temperature exceeded those of the MWP in most regions.”

    http://cdn.intechweb.org/pdfs/11433.pdf

  69. #70 Rednose
    Uk
    April 14, 2013

    And there is this one by NASA ADS
    Revealing a distinct Medieval Warm Period in the Canadian High Arctic.

    http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2010AGUFMPP43C..10D

  70. #71 BBD
    April 14, 2013

    Rednoise

    Just once, why don’t you *read* your own fucking references?

    Ljundqvist (2010):

    Since AD 1990, though, average temperatures in the extra-tropical Northern Hemisphere exceed those of any other warm decades the last two millennia, even the peak of the Medieval Warm Period.

  71. #72 BBD
    April 14, 2013

    You don’t even understand that Ljungqvist (2010) only deals with the mid- and high-latitude NH do you?

    It’s not a global study, you clown.

  72. #73 BBD
    April 14, 2013

    The Canadian High Arctic is a *region* at a specific *time*. NOT evidence for a global, synchronous “MWP”. I knew you were of the cretinous herd, but thanks for confirming it.

  73. #74 BBD
    April 14, 2013

    I have a problem with your reference. I took you to be citing “Lungqvist (2010)”:

    Ljungqvist, F.C., 2010: A new reconstruction of temperature variability in the extra-tropical Northern Hemisphere during the last two millennia. Geogr. Ann., 92 A (3): 339–351

    In fact you are referencing a chapter from a book rather than the actual paper published in the reviewed journal Geografiska Annaler: Series A:

    Fredrik Ljungqvist (2010). A Regional Approach to the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age, Climate Change and Variability, Suzanne Simard (Ed.), ISBN: 978-953-307-144-2, InTech.

    Ljungqvist’s claims are much stronger in the book chapter than in the reviewed paper published in Geogr. Ann.

    Which is interesting.

  74. #75 John Mashey
    April 14, 2013

    As usual, some people are seriously geography-challenged, and want to believe that {Central England, Europe, extrattroipical NH} = NH or the Earth.
    A useful table is % of earth’s surface from X to 90 degN:
    50% 00 deg N, NH (~MBH)
    30% 23.4 deg N, Tropic of Cancer (!Moberg}
    25% 30 deg N (~Ljunqvist}
    18% 40 deg N
    09% 60 deg N

    Ljungquistl(2010). Table 1 has the locations:
    13 from 30 deg N to59 deg N, 17 from 60deg N to 90 deg N.

    Given the preponderance of land in NH, ice/snow-albedo feedback, and the 200-year Law Dome CO2 record, mid-high North latitudes are exactly where you’d expect the medieval warming.
    Bill Ruddiman has pretty good explanations for that CO2 graph, i.e., much of it is anthropogenic.

    People want to stick with “flat-earth maps”, like Lamb ~1965.
    Readers here may find some history amusing. See Hockey stick controversy, Talk page, section “History of variants of IPCC(1990) Fig 7.1(c), p.202 … falsely claimed to be that, or even from 1995, plus the Deming tale.”

    Basically, this whole argument over global MWP was really *manufactured*” by McIntyre and McKitrick and allies in 2005, after a few others had tried for a few years, includign John Daly, “science advisor” for the (coal) Western Fuels Association.
    In real science, the argument was gone by the early 1990s.

  75. #76 BBD
    April 14, 2013

    While we ponder this, let’s return to the more fundamentally interesting question of what a warm “MWP” really means for fake sceptics.

    What it means is trouble. Since there is no evidence for any *major* change in forcings, a warm “MWP” means that the climate system is highly sensitive to radiative perturbation. Highly.

    This is anathema to the “it’s-not-CO2″ brigade, who are stuck in one of three camps:

    – deny the physics (eg Sky Dragons)

    – accept the physics but handwave an improbably low climate sensitivity

    The problem with improbably low climate sensitivities is that paleoclimate behaviour stops making any kind of sense. Nothing works, from the overall cooling trend characterising the Cenozoic to orbitally-triggered deglaciations to the “MWP” and LIA.

    For all that to *work* you need at least a moderately sensitive climate system. And if we have one, then the radiative forcing from an ever-increasing atmospheric fraction of CO2 means warming. Exactly as predicted.

    Out of curiosity, do you think about this when you argue for a warm “MWP”?

  76. #77 BBD
    April 14, 2013

    Thank you, John!

  77. #78 BBD
    April 14, 2013

    To be absolutely clear:

    While we ponder this, let’s return to the more fundamentally interesting question

    The “this” that we are pondering is my # 74. I crossed with JM.

    ;-)

  78. #79 Wow
    April 14, 2013

    “#58 “So Kaz, do you agree that it’s converted to Farenheit? Yes or no?”

    No”

    Well this proves the only fuckwitted wanker here is you, spots.

  79. #80 Rednose
    UK
    April 14, 2013

    Then there is Lun 2012:

    “This ikaite record qualitatively supports that both the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age extended to the Antarctic Peninsula.”
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X12000659

    So that seems to be reports of the MWP in “How many continents was it ?”

  80. #81 Rednose
    UK
    April 14, 2013

    Then there is Cook et al 2002

    “Evidence for a ‘Medieval Warm Period’ in a 1,100 year tree-ring reconstruction of past austral summer temperatures in New Zealand”

    “This record is the longest yet produced for New Zealand and shows clear evidence for persistent above-average temperatures within the interval commonly assigned to the MWP. Comparisons with selected temperature proxies from the Northern and Southern Hemispheres confirm that the MWP was highly variable in time and space. Regardless, the New Zealand temperature reconstruction supports the global occurrence of the MWP.”

    Cannot get the link to work for this one.

  81. #82 BBD
    April 14, 2013

    Rednoise

    Your thoughts on # 76 would be welcome now.

    Cook points out that (as I have repeatedly stated) the MWP was not global AND synchronous, hence the failure of the claim that “the MWP” was “as warm or warmer than the late C20th”. The attempt to compare regional and asynchronous warming events with current global average temperature is false equivalence.

    Cook (2002):

    Comparisons with selected temperature proxies from the Northern and Southern Hemispheres confirm that the MWP was highly variable in time and space.

    I think we may have run up against a problem with your reading comprehension again.

  82. #83 BBD
    April 14, 2013

    Rednoise

    Rather than continuing to spam the thread with stuff from CO2 Science that you haven’t bothered to read, why not engage properly?

    Share your reactions to # 76. Explain your position on this matter.

  83. #84 chek
    April 14, 2013

    why not engage properly?

    Because they can’t, BBD. It’d be like developing an argument on gravity armed only with a one frame cartoon out of the Beano showing Newton getting plonked on the head by an apple.

    The question really is who do Redarse et al think they’re kidding with their irrelevant, third-hand reducia and shit-poor grasp of both time and space?

  84. #85 BBD
    April 14, 2013

    Themselves?

  85. #86 Turboblocke
    April 14, 2013

    Are you aware of “Thin Ice” (The inside story of climate science) a movie that launches on Earth Day 22nd April? You can watch it for free or download it to organise a public/private screening.

    http://thiniceclimate.org/about-the-film

  86. #87 Rednose
    UK
    April 14, 2013

    Your statement in BBD#23

    “despite a complete absence of evidence – that the so-called “MWP” was synchronous and global”

    There seems to be considerable evidence that it was widespread and synchronous, though some sources suggest a time differential of about 150 years between N and Southern hemisperes though still overlap.

  87. #88 Rednose
    UK
    April 14, 2013

    So I suggest you opened your big mouth to make that comment and put both feet into it.

  88. #89 chek
    April 14, 2013

    There seems to be considerable evidence that it was widespread and synchronous, though some sources suggest a time differential of about 150 years between N and Southern hemisperes though still overlap.

    So do the fucking work and show it.

    Nevermind that the professionals already have and all you’ve got motivating you is innuendo from professional delayers, cranks and paranoids leading you to believe you’re being ‘scammed’. That’s your moronic bottom line.

  89. #90 BBD
    April 14, 2013

    There seems to be considerable evidence that it was widespread and synchronous

    Then let’s see it.

  90. #91 BBD
    April 14, 2013

    And please will you *respond* to # 76?

  91. #92 BBD
    April 14, 2013

    I have a bad feeling about your comprehension of this discussion, so I will repeat an essential sentence (with even more emphasis, at no extra charge!):

    The attempt to compare regional and asynchronous warming events occurring over ~ 400yr with modern global average temperature is false equivalence.

    Do you understand this?

  92. #93 John Mashey
    April 14, 2013

    Flat-Earth Society is always looking for new members, especially those adept at proving the Earth is flat, for example, known by selecting cricket pitches in UK and Australia, and finding they are flat … and reporting their locations with GPS.

    See this and the earlier falsification, flat-earth maps and dog astrology journal.

  93. #94 chek
    April 14, 2013

    Flat-Earth Society is always looking for new members, especially those adept at proving the Earth is flat, for example, known by selecting cricket pitches in UK and Australia, and finding they are flat … and reporting their locations with GPS.

    Cheers John!
    Whether true or not, that’s got to be the comedy gem of the year.

  94. #95 bill
    April 15, 2013

    Speaking of the Skydragons and the Flat Earthers – O’Sullivan vs. Monckton.

    ‘Poacher turned gatekeeper’ indeed! More unintended comedy gold…

  95. #96 John Mashey
    April 15, 2013

    Chek: I think bill’s comment wins, I could never make that up.

  96. #97 chek
    April 15, 2013

    Well, Bill’s is good – O’Sullivan is a natural clown.
    But there’s something very Steve Wright about GPS-wielding flat-earthers. To me anyway.

  97. #98 bill
    April 15, 2013

    The witticism – intended or otherwise* – is O’Sullivans!

    I’d be interested to know where the local Denialati stand in this clash. Duffer, SpamKan and Oily – the Friends of Blogscience – would be SkyDragons all the way, surely?

    *I suspect otherwise; ‘you are the veritable “poacher turned gatekeeper.” ‘

  98. #99 Bernard J.
    April 15, 2013

    KarenMackSunspot.

    Thank you for the laugh of the week! I thought that Tim Curtin and Spangled Drongo were the epitomes of mangled basic scientific comprehension, but their efforts to captain ignorance are amateurish compared with yours.

    A word of advice… If you can’t distinguish between Fahrenheit and Celsius, you are incapable of informed comment on anything relating to climate science.

    Permit me to let you in on a secret – the planet is warming, the oceans are acidifying, sea level is rising, and all of this is a result of human carbon emissions.

    And just to bring you up to speed, there is no Easter bunny nor a Santa Claus, a stork did not deposit you on your parents’ doorstep – and the homonymous reality was probably betrayed by a caoutchouc of dubious structural integrity.

  99. #100 Sou
    April 15, 2013

    Watts sets his dogs on Michael Mann so often that he’s lost track …starting to lose his memory?

    http://blog.hotwhopper.com/2013/04/watt-bad-memory-setting-lynch-mob-loose.html

Current ye@r *