June 2013 Open thread

More thread for you.

Comments

  1. #1 bill
    June 25, 2013

    um, are you supposed to be using a keyboard, freddy? you don’t have anything sharp, now, do you?

  2. #2 freddy
    June 25, 2013

    “jeff harvest”

    hahahaha, ha!!!

    insane biology-ignorant, MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    i have a university doctorate, AND YOU

    IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #3 Jeff Harvey
    June 25, 2013

    “bill, no just from intelligent people outside your closed agw delusion world in your isolated insane fuckwit reality, you morons”

    Yes, the nurses are indeed needed. ‘Freddy’ makes his namesale in Nightmare on Elm Street sound almost normal. Esepcially since he considers himself to be ‘intelligent’ then spews out this garbage.

  4. #4 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    Still I expect BBD knows better than most.

    I know better than you, Clown, which is enough. I know because I read stuff. Stuff like this:

    Professor Stephen Belcher, Head of the Met Office Hadley Centre and chair of the meeting, said: “Ultimately what we’ve seen in each of these seasons is shifts in the position of the jet stream which impact our weather in certain ways at different times of year.

    “The key question is what is causing the jet stream to shift in this way? There is some research to say some parts of the natural system load the dice to influence certain states of the jet stream, but this loading may be further amplified by climate change.”

    [...]

    With regards to the cold winters, there is a wide range of drivers that could have an influence.

    There is some initial evidence to suggest that changes in Arctic climate may also be making an impact.

    Dr James Screen, from the University of Exeter, said: “There has been a lot of talk about declining Arctic sea ice playing a role in our weather patterns, but really that’s just one aspect of changes in the Arctic climate – which has seen rapid warming compared to other parts of the world.

    “Those changes mean there is less of a difference in temperature between the Arctic and tropics, which could impact the position of the jet stream.”

    Try to understand better, Clown:

    Global average temperatures over the last decade are the highest since records began. Ditto OHC at all measured depths.

    The climate system is holistic and interconnected. So the increasing energy content of the climate system will affect all of it in some way or another. Strange UK weather is one aspect of this, but the NH mega-floods and heat waves and super-freezes are caused by blocking highs resulting from alteration in the behaviour of the jet stream. Something odd is happening to the jet stream. Something new. Something certainly connected to AGW.

  5. #5 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    freddy

    You are not a PhD. This is painfully evident.

    So, you are a fantasist, a liar and a parodically ill-informed troll.

    Sling your hook.

  6. #6 Jeff Harvey
    June 25, 2013

    Freddy, where did you get your doctorate from? The University of Fuckwittery? And in what may I ask?

    Strangely enough, I also have a doctorate in Population Ecology, with 130 peer-reviewed publications and over 3000 citations. My h-factor is 32….

    Care to share your publication bonafides, and to then stop hiding behind a stupid pseudonym?

  7. #7 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    I must admit I thought “freddie” might be a Poe but like as not he’s just insane.

    Certainly seems to have flipped since he appeared on this thread.

  8. #8 chek
    June 25, 2013

    In Freddy’s case PhD actually stands for Puffed-up halfwit Denier. I thought that much was obvious.

  9. #9 bill
    June 25, 2013

    But he can’t go yet – I wanted to know which Arkansas mail-order ‘University’ he got that PhD from…

  10. #10 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    This is priceless:

    bbd, your fucking global temperature is not defined in wikipedia!!

    It’s always informative to debate the subtleties of climate metrics with a post-doc. And what a devastating blow he strikes!

    GAT isn’t defined in Wikipedia folks! (see note).

    So:

    hence shut up you warming fuckwit who hates reality but adores virtual computer games. idiot

    Wow. What an incisive evisceration of the scientific consensus on AGW! This man will go right to the very top, IMO.

    Thanks freddie. I’m feeling a great deal better now you’ve fixed AGW for me.

    * * *

    (note:) Except of course, it is, and this cretin either didn’t bother to check or is just lying.

  11. #11 Jeff Harvey
    June 25, 2013

    “But he can’t go yet – I wanted to know which Arkansas mail-order ‘University’ he got that PhD from…”

    Yes Bill, I am very keen to know what Institute of higher learning would award Freddy anything other than a redundancy notice…

  12. #12 mike
    June 25, 2013

    Hey Deltoids!

    I’ve just read over the last coupla days’ comments and, let me say it straight out, I’m disturbed, alarmed, and concerned by this blog’s most recent commentary!

    Seriously guys, things seem to be getting just a little bit “mentally-ill” in Deltoidland, and all–I mean like some really strange, unwholesome, truly weirdo crazy-talk kickin’ around the place, and all. You know, like, total bug-fuck, nut-ball stuff like wow’s febrile, shreiking, “Tim-fuck-you-seriously-fuck-you!”, meltdown hysterics and BBD’s kinda demented, little, Vyshinsky-wannabe, “crime against humanity!”, show-trial-audition, episode-booger riff (you O. K., BBD?) and all. I mean, like, that sorta unsettling weirdness and all. I mean like you guys are getting so worked up that I’m afraid the internal pressure build-up just might even make your heads all collectively explode into so many 10:10-style, big-time messy blood-splatters, if you don’t get a hold of yourselves and all.

    C’mon Deltoids, lighten up, guys! Throttle back! Take a break! And since you Deltoids are such ol’ buddies, I’ve even worked up some guffaw-magnets to lift your mood:

    “%”–bill in an “unzipped”, can’t-get-a-date, wanker mood

    “&”–Craig Thomas in his “suppository-head”, normal, “rest” position.

    “*”–BJ being an ass-hole, as usual

    “?”–wow, realizing that eco-scams are fast losing their mojo makes a savvy career move and re-invents himself as an intestinal parasite

    “^^”–BBD’s carbon-tax “ideation” goes completely “tits-up”

    “@”–The whole, B. S., greenshirt, do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do!, taxpayer rip-off deal circles the drain

    Good stuff, huh, Deltoids! Nothing like a little laugh-cure to chase those “green” blues away, is there? I see a whole hive full of smiley-faces, now, here in Deltoidland! Good Deltoids!

  13. #13 Bernard J.
    June 25, 2013

    I’d ignore freddy folks – the farce is strong in this one.

    As I noted a few days back he’s a regular at A Few Things Ill-Considered, where he barrows around a whole heap of Creationism and other non-science. Half the time I think that he’s just a poe, but if he is he’s a peculiarly persistent and spiteful one who masters the pretense of being functionally illiterate in even primary school level science.

    Having said that, if freddy cares to provide in his own words a précis of light reactions, the Calvin-Benson cycles, the nuances of RuBisCO’s action, the peculiarities of Crassulacean acid metabolism, and whatever other understandings of photosynthesis he appears to believe that I lack, then he’s welcome to knock himself out.

    If we’re really lucky he might take that last literally, and thereby measurably increase the intelligence quotient of the planet.

  14. #14 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    BBD’s kinda demented, little, Vyshinsky-wannabe, “crime against humanity!”, show-trial-audition, episode-booger riff (you O. K., BBD?)

    I get a little angry, sometimes. Do you have any kids, mike?

  15. #15 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    Bernard J

    Funnily enough, I was reading about Rubisco only last night. Carboniferous oxygen level adaptations, mass balance and all that. Berner & Canfield. Fascinating.

  16. #16 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    Bernard – thanks for the tip about freddie – the rabidity explained. Another effing creationist.

    Teh Stupid, with religion, again.

  17. #17 Bernard J.
    June 25, 2013

    Oopsie, mikie’s off his meds again.

    Mike, would you care for once in your meagre existence to start a commentary with real, actual science, rather than spraying random incoherent examples of coprolalic Tourette syndrome?

    Perhaps you’d care to answer the questions on the previous page, and from which Betula and the other trolls have scampered, double-haste.

    Or perhaps you might just go find your nursie and let him put on your pretty white jacket with the fancy buckles at the back…

  18. #18 Bernard J.
    June 25, 2013

    BBD.

    RuBisCO is amazing, isn’t it? It’s rather an argument against the Tim Curtin style hysteria that we must burn several hundred millio0n years worth of fossil fuels as quickly as we can because we’re all about to die from lack of primary productivity.

    I’m not sure that we should let it cross beams with the fundies here though – I’m not fond of the sight of exploding Stay Puft doughboys…

  19. #19 Karen
    June 25, 2013

    BBD
    June 25, 2013

    Still I expect BBD knows better than most.

    I know better than you, Clown, which is enough. I know because I read stuff. Stuff like this:

    Professor Stephen Belcher, Head of the Met Office Hadley Centre and chair of the meeting, said: “Ultimately what we’ve seen in each of these seasons is shifts in the position of the jet stream which impact our weather in certain ways at different times of year.

    “The key question is what is causing the jet stream to shift in this way? There is some research to say some parts of the natural system load the dice to influence certain states of the jet stream, but this loading may be further amplified by climate change.”

    LoL……….lOl…..LoL..

    Twentieth century North Atlantic jet variability

    “Long records of the latitude and speed of the North Atlantic eddy-driven jet stream since 1871 are presented from the newly available Twentieth Century reanalysis. These jet variations underlie the variability associated with patterns such as the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) and have considerable societal impact through variations in the prevailing westerly winds. While the NAO combines variations in the latitude and speed of the jet, these two characteristics are shown to have quite different seasonal cycles and interannual variability, suggesting that they may have different dynamical influences.

    In general, the features exhibited in shorter records are shown to be robust, for example the strong skewness of the NAO distribution. Related to this is a clear multimodality of the jet latitude distribution which suggests the existence of preferred positions of the jet. Decadal variations in jet latitude are shown to correspond to changes in the occurrence of these preferred positions. However, it is the speed rather than the latitude of the jet which exhibits the strongest decadal variability, and in most seasons this is clearly distinct from a white noise representation of the seasonal means. When viewed in this longer term context the variations of recent decades do not appear unusual, and recent values of jet latitude and speed are not unprecedented in the historical record.”
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/qj.2197/abstract

    JeFferY was also sucked in with the alarmist Jetstream end of the world bedtime tales lol :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

    hi..barnturdy……….you sicko (spew)

  20. #20 Jeff Harvey
    June 25, 2013

    Karen opines: “I know better than you, Clown, which is enough. I know because I read stuff”

    Yeh, most of the ‘stuff” you read is puerile garbage from denier weblogs. And in the rare occasion that you do read intellectual ‘stuff’, you generally misunderstand it, or distort the conclusions of the article to shape to your own warped world view.

  21. #21 Karen
    June 25, 2013

    Actually JeFferY if you had the intelligence that you profess to have then you would have known that “BBD opines: “I know better than you, Clown,” not me sweety :)

    Really, how could you be expected to understand climate change when you can’t even keep up in a simpleton blog like this ?

  22. #22 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    Unfortunately, the extreme weather *clusters* since ~2000 are highly atypical, which very strongly suggests that Woolling’s reanalysis is not robust. I thought you lot didn’t trust climate models anyway. So what’s with this sudden enthusiasm for C20th reanalysis?

    Who is feeding you this stuff, Karen? Where are you getting your prompts from this time?

    Do tell.

  23. #23 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    Learn to use blockquotes, Karen. You are the cause of the problem here, not Jeff. Your lazy posting style is hard to read.

  24. #24 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    Who is feeding you this stuff, Karen? Where are you getting your prompts from this time?

    Inquiring minds wish to know.

  25. #25 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    # 18 Bernard

    I sincerely doubt that this lot would understand the argument in the first place. The only thing that will make these mouth-breathers explode is one of those red button box thingies that our masters are even now preparing to ship in bulk (h/t chek for the joke).

    :-)

  26. #26 bill
    June 25, 2013

    Wow, the whole ‘off their meds’ clan is here – it’s none other than Li’l Mikey, the too strict / too early toilet training casualty, a man who, doubtlessly-unfounded rumour has it, lean towards the Don Lane, if you know what I mean!… ;-)

  27. #27 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    bill

    Yes, the whole troupe of clowns has come out to cavort. Mentioned this last night. I wonder what’s got them all stirred up this time?

  28. #28 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    It’s almost as if they are co-ordinated somehow.

  29. #29 bill
    June 25, 2013

    Slow day at Climate Etc.?

  30. #30 Karen
    June 25, 2013

    “Who is feeding you this stuff, Karen? Where are you getting your prompts from this time?

    Inquiring minds wish to know.”

    It is mostly common knowledge BBD :-P

  31. #31 bill
    June 25, 2013

    …this from a person who has difficulty keeping track of what year it is, or what the difference between Fahrenheit and Celsius is! Oi vey!

  32. #32 bill
    June 25, 2013

    Of course, I know what’s got them all out – it’s the Super Moon! Hoooooowlllll…..

  33. #33 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    It is mostly common knowledge BBD

    Except it’s not. Nor do you know anything about Woolings et al. so somebody is feeding you your lines.

    Who is it?

  34. #34 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    # 32 bill

    Of course! How could I have been so stupid.

  35. #35 Karen
    June 25, 2013

    #34 the mind boggles :)

  36. #36 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    Who is feeding you your lines, Karen? There’s no point trying to pretend you actually know what you are talking about because I *know* you are only parroting. We have had enough discussion now for that to be absolutely, incontrovertibly clear.

    So, where is it all coming from?

  37. #37 Karen
    June 25, 2013

    Solar activity drives Indian winter and summer monsoons

    http://hol.sagepub.com/content/23/7/945.abstract?rss=1&utm_source=feedly

  38. #38 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    Yes, Karen, I know how the monsoon works. That isn’t the answer to the question I keep asking you.

    Please stop being evasive – it generates huge amounts of suspicion among observers.

  39. #39 Jeff Harvey
    June 25, 2013

    “It is mostly common knowledge” whinges Karen.

    Certainly is – amongst the scientifically illiterate that is.

  40. #40 bill
    June 25, 2013

    …mostly that they’re witnessing the consequences of a particularly clumsily performed leucotomy.

  41. #41 bill
    June 25, 2013

    Bugger – Jeff snuck in there!…

  42. #42 bill
    June 25, 2013

    And just as suddenly… they’re gone! Gee whiz, guys, and you were nearly winning there, you really were…

  43. #43 Jeff Harvey
    June 25, 2013

    They’re dust in the wind, Bill… here today, gone with their stupidity tomorrow….

  44. #44 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    bill # 29 and # 42

    I don’t recall any of these muppets from CE. But they did indeed depart as they arrived – en masse, exactly as though co-ordinated.

    Strange.

  45. #45 bill
    June 25, 2013

    Ah, well, seems Sticky Mike made this species list,anyway…

  46. #46 bill
    June 25, 2013

    Surely Latimer, The Prince™ and Chebbie’s arrival wasn’t a coincidence, either?

  47. #47 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    Web’s Clown gazetteer is a very hand thing. I used it extensively when posting at JC’s because there are so many clowns it is difficult, at least at first, to sort them all out. Good egg, is Web. I don’t post at JC’s much now because JC put me in moderation for upsetting the denialiati just a little bit too well.

    It is *unbelievable* that JC holds any academic role at all. She both promotes climate lies and misinformation via guest posts and through her commenting policy. A sickening display at every level.

  48. #48 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    AFIK Chebbie was a sock used by “Brad”.

    I’ve “known” Latimer for a long time as he is a UK based denialist and libertarian bloviator from the Sticky Bishop’s congregation (and thanks for that unforgettable nomination, bill).

    Latimer fancies himself an intellect but is in fact only a verbose buffoon, whereas “Brad” was genuinely smart and had the full lawyer’s toolkit at his fingertips. Yet he too was a pitiful sight in the end. Intelligent and highly educated yet hopelessly blind and marinated in the filthiest intellectual dishonesty. The power of denial is a terrible thing to behold.

  49. #49 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    Actually, it’s possible that Sticky Bishop was Lord_Sidcup, in which case apologies all round ;-)

  50. #50 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    Re heightened clown activity

    Perhaps this explains it.

  51. #51 Betula
    June 25, 2013

    Hardley…

    “Betula: if you don’t think the so-called C02 fertilization effect is a good thing, why did you bring it up in the first place?”

    I only said it was a good thing in your mind….which means even your own imagination is lying.

    I brought it up because it’s never brought up…even though you can’t state what affect it may have. The fact is, you don’t know. You can pretend to know…. but then you will be caught in another of your many lies, and I won’t let you forget it.

  52. #52 Betula
    June 25, 2013

    # 95 BBD:

    “This is a fucking flat-out lie:”

    “The problem here is that all possible positive reactions are taken out of the prediction equation….they carry no weight in the projection of predictions that potentially may happen to a system that is too complex to possibly know how all the interactions will react. Why is that?”

    Ok, why don’t you list for me some of the possible benefits of warming and how they are calculated into the predicted future climate scenarios…

  53. #53 chek
    June 25, 2013

    “The problem here is that all possible positive reactions are taken out of the prediction equation….they carry no weight in the projection of predictions that potentially may happen to a system that is too complex to possibly know how all the interactions will react”.

    Now, let’s assume that those exact same parameters apply to a car crash.

    Ok, why don’t you list for me some of the possible benefits of warming crashing and how they are calculated into the predicted future climate post crash scenarios…

    Now do you appreciate the stupidity we have to behold from you Betty?

  54. #54 Betula
    June 25, 2013

    Berntard…

    I answered your childish noise and signal question back at # 28 pg 7, in fact, it was so convincing, BBD at #30 accused me of “deliberate misrepresentation aka the “cooling over the last decade” meme.”

    Regarding your questions @ 93…

    I take soil samples and do soil amendments on a daily basis. Your questions are very basic, indicating to me that your knowledge of plant requirements and diagnosing plant problems is very limited.
    Your questions are dependent on a myriad of information you seem to have left out…location of plant, soil type, ph of soil, cation exchange capacity, variety of plant, maturity of plant, micro nutrients, organic matter, tolerance to shade, to salt, do they like wet feet etc…

    It is the same when you leave out a myriad of information when predicting future climate scenarios. Some information isn’t known, some is uncertain, some is assumed and some is left out all together….resulting in a prediction.

    Did any of you geniuses 15 years ago predict GAT to stall for the past 15 years?

    Tell me Berntard, how do you think something like CO2 fertilization may or may not fit into the future climate scenario…

  55. #55 mike
    June 25, 2013

    Hey bill!

    Yr no. 42: “And just as suddenly…they’re gone”

    “:”–bill’s nostrils

    “.”–bill’s favorite nostril

    “,”–bill’s obsession

    “!”–bill’s forefinger in its normal, nasal, “rest” position

    “?”–bill’s goober-groping “smooth-move”

    “;”–bill shows off his “prize”

    “<-"–bill flicks his booger like a girl

    "#"–bill's booger-flick is assigned comment no. 42 at Deltoid

  56. #56 Betula
    June 25, 2013

    Chek @ 53….

    A simplistic analogy from a simple person…

    chek, did you happen to notice BBD called the statement a “fucking flat-out lie”….so which part is the lie?

  57. #57 Jeff Harvey
    June 25, 2013

    One thing that is a relief: the moron brigade (Betula, Mike, Karen, Freddy, Rednose, GSW, Olaus et al) are stuck on blogs. For the most part in lecture halls, universities, conferences and workshops they are few and far between. And in the empirical literature they are virtually invisible.

    They pound their chests and act like silverbacks as anonymous entities on the internet, but in halls of academia they are laughingstocks (or indeed would be if their true identities would be revealed).

  58. #58 chek
    June 25, 2013

    Reference and context required Betty. Nothing can be taken on trust from you.

  59. #59 chek
    June 25, 2013

    One thing that is a relief: the moron brigade are stuck on blogs.

    That’s a big deal to them Jeff. My biggest laugh this week – or could maybe even this month – was GSW accusing Tim of “playing God” by delaying Jonarse’s comments. I know Tim can move in mysterious ways, but still, God?? Only to a moron, presumably.

  60. #60 freddy
    June 25, 2013

    jeff, you idiot are always wrong

    the majority of the US population detests warming by humanoids and cows, the US congress is firm against idiotic co2 laws which would weaken the US economy. you warming apes are an exotic foolish minority in the most important country of the world. china, india, japan, canada laugh about you idiots.

    YOU ARE SO RIDICULOUS, BUT BEFORE ALL YOU ARE INSANE GREEN-SOCIALST STINKING AND DIRTY SUPER ASSHOLES WHO WANT TO DESTROY CAPITALISM, GENERAL WELFARE, INDIVIDUAL HAPPINESS OF BILLIONS OF HUMANS AND POISON EVERYBODY WITH YOUR STUPID IDEOLOGY OF THE ROTTEN CLIMATE CHURCH WITH THEIR PAGAN COMPUTER GAMES.

    ASSHOLES!!!!!!!!!’

  61. #61 chek
    June 25, 2013

    I expect Obama’s climate speech today will have poor li’ll Freddy here weeping into his over-saturated wank mops.

  62. #62 Turboblocke
    June 25, 2013

    Who is feeding you your lines, Karen?
    Probably the hockeyschtick or a repost originating from there.

  63. #63 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    Betula

    Ok, why don’t you list for me some of the possible benefits of warming and how they are calculated into the predicted future climate scenarios…

    Because the work has been done by the experts in the relevant fields and the scientific consensus is that they are outweighed by the impacts. Never mind asking me to list things. You need to produce the evidence that will convince the experts that they are wrong. Since you aren’t an expert and there is no scientific counter-argument (by definition – look up “consensus”), this will be challenging.

    You accuse the entire field of Earth System science of cooking the books:

    The problem here is that all possible positive reactions are taken out of the prediction equation….they carry no weight in the projection of predictions that potentially may happen to a system that is too complex to possibly know how all the interactions will react. Why is that?

    You provide neither evidence that the books were cooked nor a scientific counter-argument. This isn’t even weak. It’s nothing.

    * * *

    By the way, is there any John Birch connection? Ideologically speaking, of course.

  64. #64 Betula
    June 25, 2013

    BBD…

    “Never mind asking me to list things. You need to produce the evidence that will convince the experts that they are wrong”

    No BBD, this is about you accusing me of lying, you are the one who chose those words as proof. The onus is on you to back up your accusation.
    Until such time, you can keep your mouth shut in the shit can:

    ̶B̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶e̶x̶p̶e̶r̶t̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶l̶e̶v̶a̶n̶t̶ ̶f̶i̶e̶l̶d̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶c̶i̶e̶n̶t̶i̶f̶i̶c̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶s̶e̶n̶s̶u̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶w̶e̶i̶g̶h̶e̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶i̶m̶p̶a̶c̶t̶s̶.̶ ̶N̶e̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶m̶i̶n̶d̶ ̶a̶s̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶l̶i̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶s̶.̶ ̶Y̶o̶u̶ ̶n̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶d̶u̶c̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶e̶v̶i̶d̶e̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶w̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶v̶i̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶e̶x̶p̶e̶r̶t̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶w̶r̶o̶n̶g̶

    By the way, is there any connection to the BBD in the Urban Dictionary? Ideologically speaking, of course.

  65. #65 bill
    June 25, 2013

    Freddy! Now, remember the anger-management classes; deep breaths, in… out… in… out…

    Jesus was a Social!st, Freddy.

  66. #66 BBD
    June 25, 2013

    Yawn.

  67. #67 bill
    June 25, 2013

    Apparently, according to sources ‘Sticky Mike’ was his nickname at school, where he was always turning up with skin and clothing sporting the crusty remnants of his various emanations and effluvia… On the worst days it became ‘Skidmark…’

    And those handkerchiefs! Eeeew…,.

  68. #68 bill
    June 26, 2013

    So, reactionary mugwumps, your slide into richly-deserved obscurity continues apace. Did you get the bit where Obama pointed out the IEA’s own figure of $500 billion in annual subsidies to that bastion of the Free Market™, the Fossil Fuel Industry?

    Whew! Kind of puts all the ‘horrendous’, market-distorting wind subsidies in perspective, don’t it? ;-)

    We look forward to the FF phase-out!…

    And ‘Flat Earth Society’ is right. Sticky, SpamKan, The Bircher, the Egregious Freddy (burst a blood vessel yet? Jesus really was a Commie, you know), Oily, Goosey, and Prince Bradley, if you’re still around. Card-carrying kooks, all…

    No time for you indeed. Just the dust bin of history…

  69. #69 Bernard J.
    June 26, 2013

    Betula said at #54:

    I answered your childish noise and signal question back at # 28 pg 7, in fact, it was so convincing…

    Hold the bus.. Stop right there.

    Really? “…it was so convincing”?! Let’s just spend a few moments to carefully pick this claim apart, even though I commented on this previously.

    Your response to the question:

    1) in the context of scientific data collection, what is meant by ‘signal’?

    was (brace yourselves people, it’s powerfully scientific…):

    The success of Deltoid Church.

    That’s it. Nothing more. And your response to the question:

    2) In the context of scientific data collection, what is meant by ‘noise’?

    was equally sophisticated:

    BBD, Wow, Bernard, Hardley, Sloth, Bill et al… OOPS… and chek.

    Betula, are you really going to say with hand on heart that you answered those two questions in anything resembling a serious scientific manner?

    Really?

    Now I realise that you may have answered them to the best of your ability, but that’s not the same as answering them properly, and answering them scientifically. If you disagree with this then you are dreadfully confused about science…

    You then said:

    Regarding your questions @ 93…

    I take soil samples and do soil amendments on a daily basis. Your questions are very basic, indicating to me that your knowledge of plant requirements and diagnosing plant problems is very limited.

    Once again you are completely missing the point. Points, in fact.

    Of course my questions are “basic” – that has been exactly my explicitly stated approach throughout this whole thread. As an exercise in verification, go back through it and count how many times I’ve expressly mentioned “basic”, “fundamental”, “simple”, and similar descriptors. I am attempting to establish your understanding of the first principles of the science that you so vigorously disparage, but against which you offer neither any demonstration of understanding nor any defensible (or even visible) counter.

    Further, my questions about the impacts of nutrient excess are not predicated on any specific cofactors, they are intended merely to elicit from you an acknowledgement that seemingly beneficial elements and compounds that facilitate growth can also compromise plant (and interacting species’) health.

    Your response was to tap dance around directly answering those questions, likely because you knew where this would lead you. Instead you attempted to counter with mention of system complexity, which was a bit of an exercise in closing barn doors because my point in question (8) was about the effect of nutrient imbalance with confounding climatic factors – the specific system complexity to which we’ve been trying to lead you and which you’ve been assiduously ignoring on this blog for a long time.

    Oh, and for the record the interactions of nutrient excess with other environmental factors is implied by my mentioning in questions (7) and (8) of ecosystems and imbalances. If you worked as an ecologist you’d understand that we take it as read that all biophysiochemical parameters are integral to an ecosystem – but as I said above, it doesn’t change the simple fact that you simply tried to avoid providing a simple answer to a simple question about simple science.

    And it’s not as if the complexities of biological response to climate change and increased CO2 levels hasn’t all been laid out for you before. A few years ago I listed on several occasions whole swags of references covering negative consequences of increased CO2, including amongst other things altered nutritional composition in plant matter; differential pest, weed and disease responses; and altered mycorrhizal associations. I’ve mentioned numerous times the fact that shifting agricultural climatic zones don’t drag their geologies and hydrologies with them. And I couldn’t count the number of times that I and others have mentioned Sprengel’s Law of the Minimum (latterly attributed to Liebig) – this is another fundamental confounder of your simplistic representation of increasing atmospheric CO2 as an overall beneficial circumstance.

    And yet you ignore that, and the simple questions about simple climate science.

    In attempting to so prevaricate you said:

    Your questions are dependent on a myriad of information you seem to have left out…location of plant, soil type, ph [sic] of soil, cation exchange capacity, variety of plant, maturity of plant, micro nutrients, organic matter, tolerance to shade, to salt, do they like wet feet etc…

    As I explained above, the questions did not require monographic responses, just a simple acknowledgement that nutrient excess can have negative effects. However, as I also noted above, you shot yourself in the foot by drawing the “complex response/no general answer” card, because this matter of complexity of response is exactly what biologists are saying about increased CO2 in the atmosphere – it is not as simple as plants merely growing at a faster rate. This is what I was trying to elicit from you with the questions about increased nutrients. This is what I and Jeff and Lotharsson and BBD and Chek and so many others have for so long been trying to have you face.

    And this is what you have studiously skirted, ignored, avoided, eschewed, sidestepped, dodged, and otherwise attempted to pretend was not an issue. It’s interesting to see though that by your own words you recognise that one cannot make across-the-board blanket statements about a nutrient being simply beneficial or detrimental. This begs the question as to why you have then so vehemently avoided the fact that CO2 increase is not simply a boon to the biosphere, especially as you have concurrently avoided the incontrovertible fact that its presence in the atmosphere is going to warm the planet and cause so many knock-on climatic and physiochemical effects (as you tried to distract with in your non-response to my nutrients question). Why do you believe (or profess to) that these climatic and biophysiochemical sequelæ will not render any growth benefit incidental in the greater biological scheme of things?

    One has to wonder if you are just pig-ignorant of anything resembling science at great than a grade 6 level, or if you are in fact pushing an ideological barrow that is at odds with the laws of nature.

    And for what it’s worth, I included chloride and water in my list of questions (to wit, 3 and 5), which where in fact intended to have you consider the whole issue of water balance and interactions with stomatal function, and how these alter the acquisition of CO2 and nitrogen amongst other things. You failed in this too, though, partly because we can never actually get a proper answer from you that ever resembles a genuine attempt at science.

    On a different subject, you tried the squirrel gambit with your red herring:

    Did any of you geniuses 15 years ago predict GAT to stall for the past 15 years?

    I’ll play though, because it’s a lame attempt at a straw man. You see, science has never said that atmospheric warming would be monotonic (please point to where it has), and science has long quantified the level of noise in the temperature record – a quantification which directly indicates that yes, science did and does predict periods of apparent non-increase in temperature. Science doesn’t predict exact dates and durations simply because there are chaotic elements to climate, but the current trajectory is no surprise. It is certainly consistent with the physics that tells us that our carbon emissions do – and will continue to – warm the planet.

    Having said that, your premise that there has been no warming for 15 (or 17, or whatever) years is completely and utterly wrong.

    All of this wold have been addressed had you been able to answer the questions. Question which, by the way, still remain open for answering (properly) by you and/or any of your denialist buddies.

    Tell me Berntard, how do you think something like CO2 fertilization may or may not fit into the future climate scenario…

    Hey stupid, that’s what we’ve been trying to ask you for ages but you refuse to consider any other parameter, factor or fundamental law of physics beyond the fact that plants source most of their carbon from CO2. You’ve been told the answers before, repeatedly, but they just don’t creep through the particularly thick bone of your skull.

    You could work it out yourself though. If you actually got to and answered my questions about the science of climate change and about plants and ecosystem responses to excessive nutrient you might just have the dawning of the answer yourself.

    Given your track record however, none of us would hold our breaths.

  70. #70 freddy
    June 26, 2013

    @billtroll, your junk text has no value

    learn to live with the fact

    THAT THERE IS NO CORRELATION BETWEEN GAT AND CO2

    MORON!!!!!!!!!!

  71. #71 freddy
    June 26, 2013

    @bill clown

    “jesus bla bla”

    you need jesus for an argument??????

    FUCKWIT MORON!!!!!!!!!!

    ASSHOLE!!!!!!!!

  72. #72 Craig Thomas
    June 26, 2013

    Could you define “GAT” for us please, “freddy”?

  73. #73 BBD
    June 26, 2013

    THAT THERE IS NO CORRELATION BETWEEN GAT AND CO2

    Stop ignoring the other ~90% of the climate system – ocean heat content.

    Actually, even GAT correlates quite well with total net forcings, which are rising because of increasing GHG forcing.

    Look at the data: forcings vs GAT

    Once again, you are lying.

  74. #74 BBD
    June 26, 2013

    Betty

    By the way, is there any connection to the BBD in the Urban Dictionary? Ideologically speaking, of course.

    None at all, although that was an eye-opener!

    You dodged the question, so I suspect I was bang on.

    John Birch Society. Your home away from home.

  75. #75 BBD
    June 26, 2013

    No BBD, this is about you accusing me of lying

    Everybody who misrepresents the terrible risk of rapid warming from unabated emissions is a liar. They are committing a crime against humanity. They are the worst scum imaginable.

    You constantly and dishonestly misrepresent the risk. You do this despite the fact that you are arguing without evidence and without expertise against the scientific consensus.

    You do this here despite detailed, referenced correction. Then, when confronted with your perfidious intellectual dishonesty – your lies – you try to pretend innocence.

    The stinking hypocrisy would make a hyena vomit. Away and fuck yourself. You are beneath contempt.

  76. #76 bill
    June 26, 2013

    Ah, Freddy probably eschews the New Testament and all that hippy nonsense. Who cares about a bearded, sandal-wearing freak?

    Petal, you didn’t tell us where you purchased that PhD of yours – please do so before your stroke!…

    And ‘none so blind’, etc.!

  77. #77 Bernard J.
    June 26, 2013

    I know that Tim’s caught up with things other than Deltoid, but it’s times such as these that it really would be nice to have closer oversight of the trolls.

    Freddy is a very sick individual who should probably be better-medicated, if not actually hospitalised. His denialist chum presents nothing useful other than to reinforce the ideological prejudices of the rest of his ethically- and intellectually-disabled mates.

    He would be best expunged from the record.

  78. #78 BBD
    June 26, 2013

    Agreed wrt Freddy. Insane and unamusing and should not be tolerated.

  79. #79 freddy
    June 26, 2013

    bernardtroll and bbdtroll

    you speak like the german nazis, eg hitler and himmler spoke about jews and people with less value

    you are also mentally insane and facistic assholes

  80. #80 bill
    June 26, 2013

    Does he carry on like this elsewhere, or has he recently had a turn?

  81. #81 BBD
    June 26, 2013

    # 78 just proves the point.

    And you can fuck off with your Godwins, freddy.

  82. #82 freddy
    June 26, 2013

    everybody except climate fuckwits know that obama is a lame duck and the power is with the reps in congress. therefore the us will stay reasonable and ethical to reject all co2 insanities which the climate socialists want. i want to see the climate fraudulents sentenced to jail.

  83. #83 mike
    June 26, 2013

    __POP GOES THE WEASEL!__

    “.”–bill’s zit

    “:”–bill examines his zit in his bathroom mirror

    “!”–bill pops his zit a good one!

    “?”–bill squeezes and squeezes to get all the “good stuff” out

    “,”–bill’s evacuated zit-shaft with seepage

    “*”–another zit-crud “score” to add to the bio-hazard, noisome build-up already on bill’s bathroom mirror.

    Isn’t bill just the cutest, little, sweetie-pie, serial zit-abuser bubber-bubber?–bill’s mummy thinks so!

  84. #84 Karen
    June 26, 2013

    Freddie welcome to the dumbtoid blog :)

    I see that Bill the flaccid has taken a shine to you.

    When reading through your post’s I couldn’t help but notice the similarities between yourself and barnturd !

    hmmmm…………..Freddie = barnturd sock ?

  85. #85 BBD
    June 26, 2013

    i want to see the climate fraudulents sentenced to jail.

    False allegation of fraud and a call for false imprisonment from Mr Godwin.

    Spot the inconsistency in your “position”, freddy?

  86. #87 freddy
    June 26, 2013

    karen, what makes me really mad about the climate truth deniers, the fuckwit hoax morons like abc, berrnard, etc, is that these abominable guys want to impose their anxiety, decadence, bad mood etc etc etc etc etc etc etc all their nasty character traits onto decent citizens

    they are afraid that it might getting warmer! hahahaha, i welcome warmer times, unfortunately it will soon be colder

  87. #88 Jeff Harvey
    June 26, 2013

    Freddy’s posts are so utterly stupid that they are funny. This guy/person/thing clearly hasn’t got a brain in his head. So every post he/it/she/whatever makes is clearly scraped from some sordid oriface.

    Methinks he is a Tea Party reject. Or else some redneck hick from the backwoods. Note how he has Karen to cheer him on. Hardly surprising, given Karen’s own benthic level of intelellectual discourse. In fact, that is one common trait the AGW deniers who write into Deltoid have: they are all witless idiots. Not a single one gives any indication of having any common sense.

  88. #89 Jeff Harvey
    June 26, 2013

    Case in point: “i welcome warmer times”

    No context there. No evaluation of conequences, scale, effects on compelx adaptive systems. And this dolt claims to have a PhD? Of course he doesn’t. I would be surprised if he has a high school diploma.

  89. #90 freddy
    June 26, 2013

    jeff-troll

    “common sense” is your disgusting socialism

    the content of your “text” is pure shit

  90. #91 freddy
    June 26, 2013

    boohooo, jeff fears one degree C, poor boy, go whining to mommy, consequences? go swimming and take a drink, you idiot, and enjoy life, fuckwit bollocks arselick

  91. #92 BBD
    June 26, 2013

    Teh Stupid says:

    unfortunately it will soon be colder

    Why? Explain the physical mechanism by which the climate system will cool when subjected to a steadily increasing GHG forcing.

    This should be interesting…

  92. #93 Sou
    June 26, 2013

    Who’s freddy #81? Great idea of his though.

    If all the climate fraudulents were sent to jail we might get a move on with shifting to clean energy. To save taxpayers having to pay the board and lodging of these fraudulents, maybe they could be put to work building solar panels and wind turbines :D

  93. #94 Sou
    June 26, 2013

    By the way, HotWhopper is being credited by some deniers with having shut down a denier fest on weatherzone. I was told by what I take to be a mod that it wasn’t so, but it’s a nice thought isn’t it. (Wouldn’t be surprised if some of my posts helped nudge things along. There were a few HW posts copied to WZ.)

    I’m told the mods there are science deniers which, if so, would explain why the forum was allowed to degenerate. Otherwise they would have managed things better.

    Seems odd to have a board that’s purpose is to discuss weather that can’t manage a decent discussion on climate change.

    I had a read of some of the old WZ threads and it comes across being very similar to my old stomping ground, HotCopper. Stereotypical deniers. Full of “lol”, “prove it”, “your wrong” (sic) and other posts of similar erudity with rarely a word of more than one syllable. Coarse and primitive and despising knowledge and learning.

    http://blog.hotwhopper.com/2013/06/just-to-be-clear-about-weatherzone.html

  94. #95 BBD
    June 26, 2013

    Hello Sou

    Just read the WZ post. You are bound to have had something to do with the shut-down and it sounds like a good evening’s work to me.

    I see some love-bombs in comments. Nice to be appreciated, isn’t it?

    :-)

  95. #96 bill
    June 26, 2013

    Ah, Mikey, you big mucous-drenched, flaking-gusset spaz, you! Apart from all the obsessive coprolalia, have you ever said anything of substance, do you reckon? (That’s substance rather than substances, Mike. Not the sticky ones. Not the kind that used to make Mommy so cross. Remember? When she used to threaten to make you get the scissors?)

    Not that I can recall.

    In fact, you’re really just Freddy on slightly better meds, aren’t you?

  96. #97 Jeff Harvey
    June 26, 2013

    ““common sense” is your disgusting socialism”

    As I thought, Freddy is a Tea Party alumnus, and even they probably evicted him because he is truly and utterly bonkers.

    I do, however, agree with this nutter on one point (as intimated by Sou): the ‘climate (denial) fraudulents’ do deserve jail terms for the effects their lies and distortions will have on the natural systems that sustain us and on future generations. Those bought-and-paid for hacks and a few pseudo-scientists on the corporate payroll certainly bear some responsibility for the current procrastination and delay in implementing measures to deal with warming. They have a lot to answer for.

  97. #98 Sou
    June 26, 2013

    BBD, I would have liked to have left the deleted comment to illustrate the (lack of) literary prowess of the denialiti, but it was a rant against CeeBee (and me, but I can hack it) and I can’t have people flaming my guests. (I’m the only one having that privilege :) – though I try to tackle what they say, not who they are.)

  98. #99 bill
    June 26, 2013

    So, whaddayareckon – can Rudd really pull off a miracle? Or is this latest stage of the long-running farce only going to virtually guarantee we get to hear about [*shudders*] ‘PM Abbott’ for at least a decade. And have the
    Libs in for 15 years? Sadly for anyone who takes AGW seriously, if I had to put money on it I’d have to say…

    Or how about the WTD theory – particularly after the Obama speech? The Monk will huff and puff, but he won’t actually cut the Carbon Price, not least because of pressure from his own business constitutency? And the international community, particularly, again, now?

    PS – this is a question for people who are actually familiar with Australian politics and who aren’t the kind of daft Teabaggers that think Obama is a ‘soshurlist’. You will, of course, stick your oars in anyway, but it’ll be stupid. And pandering to nutters like you is the reason the GOP was creamed in the Presidential election – Abbott will only be too aware of that…

  99. #100 freddy
    June 26, 2013

    oh poor billie whining, go to mommy, baby

    the bad world will not fulfill your dreams of a colder world, as normal people like warm weather, you asshole

    australia? australia is in agony as it had to learn that european co2 certificate prices have reache ground zero, hallelujah

    hallelujah, the climate hysterics will be more depressed, hallelujah

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