August 2013 Open thread

More thread.

Comments

  1. #1 el gordo
    August 20, 2013

    The problem the western world has with CC mass delusion will take years to resolve, but once the media click into place it shouldn’t take long to debrief most adults.

    The young have been seriously brainwashed through the education system, so they may take a little longer to convince that global warming was a scam after all.

  2. #2 BBD
    August 20, 2013

    Indeed they may, as they will be growing up in a world where the effects of AGW are becoming increasingly hard to ignore. Or deny.

    As I mentioned upthread, my little boy turned six yesterday.

  3. #3 el gordo
    August 20, 2013

    A mini ice age is no laffing matter, but in a technological modern world of free enterprise we should see global cooling as an opportunity.

  4. #4 cohenite
    August 20, 2013

    Hilarious.

  5. #5 chek
    August 20, 2013

    Gordon, keep your silly, unfounded religious mantras to yourself, will you?

    You must realise by now that you, Luke and Cox have less than zero credibility in anything you say, interpret or just generally burble because you know nothing at all.

    And your constant repetition of that fact is as grating as it is unnecessary

  6. #6 BBD
    August 20, 2013

    A mini-ice age is a fantasy only entertained by physics deniers.

    And I await your explanation for a physical mechanism.

    How does the climate system enter a mini-ice age when the forcing increase from CO2 hugely exceeds the forcing decrease from solar activity?

    And remember, there’s no evidence for a negative cloud feedback ;-)

    Look at the relative sizes of the variability in solar forcing vs the increase in GHG forcing.

    ?

  7. #7 el gordo
    August 20, 2013

    ‘And your constant repetition of that fact is as grating as it is unnecessary’

    I’ll stop talking about global cooling if you stop talking about unnatural warming.

  8. #8 el gordo
    August 20, 2013

    BBD the CO2 forcing you talk of is flawed, like the models. Its time to consider your future in a cooler world.

    This UK winter will probably be horrendously cold, like many others this decade. This is not weather … more a climate change trend.

  9. #9 BBD
    August 20, 2013

    Why should we stop talking about “unnatural warming” when that is what is occurring?

    You lot are always whining about shutting down the debate. Despite the fact that there was not, and is not, a scientific basis for any of your claims.

    A tad insane, no?

  10. #10 cohenite
    August 20, 2013

    I have to go to work but it’s been a joy; BBD implacable to the end; solar vs greenhouse forcing:

    http://www.udel.edu/Geography/DeLiberty/Geog474/energy_wavelength.gif

    It was great while it lasted but the punters have moved on:

    http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/media/history/media-climate-change-coverage.gif

  11. #11 BBD
    August 20, 2013

    BBD the CO2 forcing you talk of is flawed

    No, it isn’t. You will be unable to provide a referenced argument supporting this claim because none exists.

  12. #12 BBD
    August 20, 2013

    Again:

    No, it isn’t. You will be unable to provide a referenced and widely accepted argument supporting this claim because none exists.

  13. #13 Stu
    August 20, 2013

    You’ve been dragged all over the pond boys. Don’t go over to Nova – they’ll pull your pants down and tweak your nose.

    Good God you’re a delusional little man.

  14. #14 Stu
    August 20, 2013

    IPCC AR5 coming soon. Heads will explode.

  15. #15 BBD
    August 20, 2013

    cohenite

    WTF?

    How clueless can you be?

  16. #16 chek
    August 20, 2013

    Yes, that you don’t understand the science is implicit in my last post.

    But this article and comments are interesting for its guide to Aussie cranks.
    One Nation appears to have gone shopping to the Climate Science Denial Mart and come back with the whole deli counter of debunked talking points. “What’s really behind all the global warming hoopla,” One Nation’s website asks. “Power. It’s the same old Marxist/Communist/Fascist collectivist shtick, dressed up in new clothes. Global warming is all about a power grab by a wealthy elite and their collectivist sycophants — using the (United Nations) as a cover and tool.” Elsewhere, One Nation accuses the Bureau of Meteorology and the CSIRO of engaging in the corruption of science.

    And then of course there’s the Galileo Movement with its fear of the Jewish Banking Conspiracy. *wink*

    So with all your blather about re-educating the masses and the youth, which band of nutcases is your little sleeper cell in bed with? One or both?

  17. #17 BBD
    August 20, 2013

    Would you post that link again, chek? It’s not working and I am curious about the background…

  18. #18 chek
    August 20, 2013

    Sorry ’bout that BBD. Try this one

  19. #19 BBD
    August 20, 2013

    Well bugger me. A bunch of right-wing opportunists and fundamentalist nutters all muddled together denying physics. It’s just like America. Who knew? Here in the UK, at least we are largely spared the Southern Baptist version of physical climatology.

  20. #20 BBD
    August 20, 2013

    But we have The Monckey and The Corbyn, which pretty much stuffs us. What if someone ever did a cranks/km^2 analysis?

  21. #21 chek
    August 20, 2013

    And we’ve had ample examples that the regularly debunked figleaf pseudoscience spouted by our visiting crank trio is neither understood or of any consequence to them. Their agenda is elsewhere.

  22. #22 BBD
    August 21, 2013

    Oh God, I missed Delingpole. Cranks/km^2 by nation gets ever-more depressing.

    * * *

    Their agenda is elsewhere.

    It is mind-boggling. But it will destroy them all in the end. Physics doesn’t vote, but frightened and angry people do.

    And they remember who lied to them.

  23. #23 el gordo
    August 21, 2013

    The gentlemen you mentioned are heros of the revolution.

    I pulled this from that Guardian link…..

    ‘This ignores a recent study, co-authored by fellow The Guardian environment blogger Dana Nuccitelli, about 97 per cent of scientific studies on climate change in the last 20 years all agree that global warming is caused by humans. It also ignores all the major science academies in the developed world.’

    The Guardian spins propaganda.

  24. #24 Stu
    August 21, 2013

    The gentlemen you mentioned are heros of the revolution

    What. The. Fuck. Are. You. Talking. About. You. Moron.

  25. #25 el gordo
    August 21, 2013

    The author Graham Readfearn is a known warmist zealot and we were in close communication on his blog at the Courier Mail.

    When he went head to head with Monckton in Brisbane I wished him well and told him to remain calm, but he ignored my unsolicited advice and shortly after got the sack…. or quit his day job.

  26. #26 el gordo
    August 21, 2013

    Delingpole, Corbyn and the Lord.

  27. #27 Stu
    August 21, 2013

    Gordo, your morbid and pathological fascination with people getting fired is duly noted. Do tell, cupcake. Who fired you, and for what?

  28. #28 Stu
    August 21, 2013

    Delingpole? Let me see, what are his credentials… doop-dee-doop-dee-doop… OH, a degree in English Literature! Well sheeeat, better listen to this guy, he’s an EXPERT!

    *snirk*

    He must be a quality journalist though. Doop-dee-doop-dee-doop… oh, yes:

    “Should Michael Mann be given the electric chair for having concocted arguably the most risibly inept, misleading, cherry-picking, worthless and mendacious graph – the Hockey Stick – in the history of junk science?

    “Should George Monbiot be hanged by the neck for his decade or so’s hysterical promulgation of the great climate change scam and other idiocies too numerous to mention?

    “Should Tim Flannery be fed to the crocodiles for the role he has played in the fleecing of the Australian taxpayer and the diversion of scarce resources into pointless projects like all the eyewateringly expensive desalination plants built as a result of his doomy prognostications about water shortages caused by catastrophic anthropogenic global warming?”

    Man, if he steps it up he could hook up with Malkin or Coulter.

  29. #29 rhwombat
    King Cole's Sphincter, NSW
    August 21, 2013

    Stu: Fatso got fired from one Rupert’s Lesser Organs for being insufficiently flexible. Apparently being very stupid and servile are insufficient…who knew?

  30. #30 chameleon
    August 21, 2013

    Tut tut Lotharrson, Craig, Marco et al.
    Lotharrson sees fit to bring up my name so here is my reply (but languish in moderation no doubt)
    Belittling and faux intellectual sneering are tactics that you really should have left behind in your schoolyards.
    There is nothing wrong with the quals and creds of Ove Humlum here:
    http://www.climate4you.com/Text/BIBLIOGRAPHY%20OLE%20HUMLUM.pdf
    In fact they look more impressive than the quals and creds of this guy here:
    http://www.gci.uq.edu.au/researchers/john-cook1
    Of course he has every right to comment as does Ove Humlum.
    Personal attacks are just intellectually lazy.
    It looks like your new friend Luke is trying to help you but you lot are so totally blinkered that you can’t see that. You could take his advice and listen to your Mums. I hope they taught you “if you can’t say something nice…”

  31. #31 Stu
    August 21, 2013

    Ah, screw it. Any person I have to explain to why Corbyn and Monckton are clowns is very likely beyond rescue anyway.

    By all means, if there are any lurkers present that need clarification, please do not hesitate to ask. I’ll gladly dig up some explanatory links.

  32. #32 Stu
    August 21, 2013

    Did he get fired for an insufficiently flexible sphincter?

  33. #33 rhwombat
    King Coal's Sphincter, NSW
    August 21, 2013

    Stu @ #28: I thought Delingpole got publically devoured by a Nurse Shark (Ginglimostoma cirratum var nobelesis) – “My, Sir Paul, what big polite teeth you have”? To be fair, that is a much less gruesome fate than to be fed to the Coultergeist, or the rage-imp.

  34. #34 el gordo
    August 21, 2013

    Doc I worked for Fairfax.

  35. #35 el gordo
    August 21, 2013

    Monckton turned up in my town and was treated with respect, befitting a showman, from an appreciative audience.

    There were three people outside in the cold holding banners protesting his appearance.

  36. #36 Stu
    August 21, 2013

    So what warm welcome was afforded to Bozo, Gordy?

  37. #37 chameleon
    August 21, 2013

    Yes I see that I still get moderated. Your new friend Luke must be right when he calls you a dour lot.
    BTW Lotharrson please be assured that I did not consider my time here as a ‘career’. What an amusing and conceited comment from the self professed and self appointed master of RIH. :-) :-)
    My time here was merely an amusing diversion during the holiday season and for a short time afterwards. I managed to get myself parked in moderation while not once breaking any blog rules and remaining unfailingly polite in the face of increasing abuse all the way to sexist and even misogynist. I did learn a great deal about engaging with a mindset and an attitude that is quite different to mine. I can at least thank you for providing me the practice. It has actually helped me in my real career.

  38. #38 el gordo
    August 21, 2013

    Who is bozo?
    ——————–

    Following on from cohenite’s link … the blogosphere around October 13, 2011 shows a huge reduction in chatter about climate change and nobody knows why.

    http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/media/history/blogs-climate-change-coverage.gif

  39. #39 el gordo
    August 21, 2013

    Up intill October 2011 the warmista message was loud and clear, but then they blew it.

    Alarm bells had just begin to ring on the methane bomb in the Eastern Arctic, which threatened to increase warming at a phenomenal rate.

    It was a bridge too far.

  40. #40 Lotharsson
    August 21, 2013

    Don’t go over to Nova – they’ll pull your pants down and tweak your nose.

    Yes, they are rather poor at scientific discussion, preferring in my experience instead the clownlike behaviour that you portray.

  41. #41 el gordo
    August 21, 2013

    NASA accepts the word of an Oz cartoonist, what a joke.

    http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus

  42. #42 el gordo
    August 21, 2013

    The methane bomb story still has legs, a new paper came out recently.

    ‘The claims also suggest that the methane released by the shrinking levels would bring forward the date at which the global average temperature rise exceeds two degrees Celsius by between 15 and 35 years.

    ‘Dr Chris Hope, of Cambridge University, added: ‘In the absence of climate-change mitigation measures the model calculates it would increase mean global climate impacts by $60 trillion.’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2377547/The-great-Arctic-economic-time-bomb-Experts-claim-methane-gases-set-cause-flooding-droughts-cost-trillions-dollars-damage.html#ixzz2cZYlVasa
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

  43. #43 Lotharsson
    August 21, 2013

    NASA accepts the word of an Oz cartoonist, what a joke.

    Yes, using a fallacious ad hominem attack like that, and blatantly lying about what it was that was accepted – from someone who was allegedly a journalist – is a complete joke.

    Especially since one presumes that you were attempting to slander John Cook (IIRC calling him a “cartoonist” is a denialist favourite), and the web page you link to doesn’t reference the peer reviewed study of which he is one author.

    You still don’t come here for the hunting, do you?

  44. #44 Stu
    August 21, 2013

    Who is bozo?

    No, no, that’s it, you trolling douchecanoe. Have fun pretending. How do you look in the mirror and not cry?

  45. #45 el gordo
    August 21, 2013

    The new IPCC report says only 95% of scientists agree that humans are destroying the planet.

  46. #46 Karen
    August 21, 2013

    Oh dear !

    Who would have thought, methane really is VERY VERY dangerous

    http://www.ronsonwriter.com/content/view/69/9/

    lol

  47. #47 Karen
    August 21, 2013

    I have always sat on the fence regarding this co2 thingy.
    However after reading the last few days comments in here I am now leaning towards the belief that a co2 greenhouse Hell on Earth co2 may have been some type of propaganda campaign ?

    ……….and who is that repulsive person?
    the one humping the wombat………disssssgusting

  48. #48 Karen
    August 21, 2013

    repeat after me………

    co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2o2co2co2co2co2co2

    lol

  49. #49 el gordo
    August 21, 2013

    Hi Karen

    Wombat is okay, he’s under a bit of stress at the moment but after the election he should settle down.

  50. #50 Karen
    August 21, 2013

    Hi el, :)

    It seems that BBd is about to pop, lol

  51. #51 Karen
    August 21, 2013

    Natural Climate Change has been Hiding in Plain Sight

    This paper by Dan Pangburn presents a simple equation that models average global temperatures with an accuracy of 90%, by considering only natural oscillations and the sunspot time integral. Change of atmospheric CO2 levels is found to have no significant effect on average global temperature.

    http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/natural-climate-change-has-been-hiding.html

    lol

  52. #52 Karen
    August 21, 2013

    Hey guyz……..I think that I might sell my air conditioning investments and get into wheat futures.
    wod u tink ?

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/07/17/uk-china-wheat-idUKBRE96G00020130717

  53. #53 Berendaneke
    August 21, 2013

    @Karen, methane is a much more dangerous greenhouse gas than CO2. But by far the most important greenhouse gas is water vapour, which is easily forgotten in the climate debate.

  54. #54 Jeff Harvey
    August 21, 2013

    Dan Pangburn? C’mon Karen, you can do better than this. Pangburn is sub-benthic when it comes to the scientific acumen of cranks. His garbage is smeared all over the denialosphere, but very little of his equations end up in scientific journals.

    Perhaps you can enlighten me as to why. In the meantime, keep on citing nonsense spewed out by denial blogs. Its worth a good laugh in the morning.

  55. #55 Jeff Harvey
    August 21, 2013

    … then this little gem from Cohenite:

    “It was great while it lasted but the punters have moved on”

    Sure they have. The punters being scientifically illiterate gnomes like Cohenite and others (several of whom contaminate this blog) who have other agendas to pursue. Its too bad for these ‘punters’ that the vast majority of the scientific community remain convinced by sound science and have very different views on AGW.

    But wait – ‘punters’ like Cohenite, El Gordo, Karen, Mike, Luke eta al. THINK they are veritable experts in climate science. Therein lies the rub. This bunch of illiterates all show deep signs of the Dunning-Kruger affliction: most of them has been anywhere close to a science lecture theater or (God forbid!) attended a scientific conference (Cohenite apparently studied geography as an undergraduate???? That does not count) but they all think that they are bonafide experts in atmospheric science. Simply put, the less education one has in a field, the more they THINK they know about it. This lot are textbook cases – as were Jonas, Betula, PentaxZ and other morons who came in here from time to time.

    Yup, the D-K affliction is strong with these ‘punters’.

  56. #56 Karen
    August 21, 2013

    JeFfEry’S next post will be all about how fantastic and wonderfully talented he himself is :)

    How long do you stand naked kissing the mirror JeFfEry ?

  57. #57 Luke
    August 21, 2013

    First person to mention Galileo, Feynman or Dunning-Kruger loses.

    Jeff your base assumptions are all wrong.

    Mean von Storch and Lucia have called it on the models – do you have scientific comments of substance to make? I know insults are more fun.

  58. #58 Karen
    August 21, 2013

    This is a hard hit to the co2 thingy.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7139797.stm

    I really was looking forward to seeing greenies donating dry ice, hehehe

  59. #59 Marco
    August 21, 2013

    Luke, any reason we should put any confidence in whatever Lucia Liljegren has to say? It’s not like she is a luminary, sorry, WAS, a luminary in her own field.

  60. #60 el gordo
    August 21, 2013

    ‘This bunch of illiterates all show deep signs of the Dunning-Kruger affliction’

    D&K is not relevant to Post Normal Science (PNS).

  61. #61 Wow
    August 21, 2013

    “Wow. Has it occurred to you that Tim might have rather persuasive personal reasons to withdraw from the fray after years of leading it?”

    Yup. Discarded immediately he put three more “Here’s some more thread for you” threads.

    He’s withdrawing fuck all. He’s nuts because the only reason to keep this going is to make his name known for running a science site that goes into climate change issues. But he’s fucking that up a right royal treat by abandoning it. Sharon on another blog here just stopped blogging for a year or so because of work, life and stress issues. Her ego was not tied to “running a scienceblogs blog” unlike Tim, so she could stop because she could not participate.

    Tim can’t not play the Olympiad BlogMaster, though. His ego won’t let him and his intelligence is secondary to his self image.

    He’s as nuts as Bray.

  62. #62 Karen
    August 21, 2013

    No doubt Tim woke up, the co2 trance broken :)

  63. #63 cohenite
    August 21, 2013

    So I’m a gnome Jeff; could you narrow that down, there are so many varieties:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnome

    Personally I prefer the elemental variety; their capacity to move through solid Earth would come in very handy here although I’m not sure the solid stuff I have to move through is earth.
    .

  64. #64 chek
    August 21, 2013

    &K is not relevant to Post Normal Science (PNS)

    Actually, if you were capable of sustained, concentrated though for upwards of fifteen seconds, you’d realise that it would be even more relevant to PNS (whatever that is).

  65. #65 chek
    August 21, 2013

    do you have scientific comments of substance to make

    Yep. Why are you avoiding BBD’s questions and repeating your bullshit ad nauseam?

  66. #66 Turboblocke
    August 21, 2013

    #43 EG says:,i>The new IPCC report says only 95% of scientists agree that humans are destroying the planet.

    Are you sure? The only 95% quote that I’ve seen is 95% certainty t hat global warming is man made.

  67. #67 chek
    August 21, 2013

    This is a hard hit to the co2 thingy.

    It’s only a hard hit to your reading ability SpamKan. Nothing more.

  68. #68 el gordo
    August 21, 2013

    ‘Are you sure? The only 95% quote that I’ve seen is 95% certainty that global warming is man made.’

    Of course the architects of propaganda would say that….this from Judith Curry.

    ‘Once the UNFCCC treaty was a done deal, the IPCC and its scientific conclusions were set on a track to become a self fulfilling prophecy. The entire framing of the IPCC was designed around identifying sufficient evidence so that the human-induced greenhouse warming could be declared unequivocal, and so providing the rationale for developing the political will to implement and enforce carbon stabilization targets. National and international science programs were funded to support the IPCC objectives.

    ‘Were [these] just hardworking scientists doing their best to address the impossible expectations of the policy makers? Well, many of them were. However, at the heart of the IPCC is a cadre of scientists whose careers have been made by the IPCC. These scientists have used the IPCC to jump the normal meritocracy process by which scientists achieve influence over the politics of science and policy. Not only has this brought some relatively unknown, inexperienced and possibly dubious people into positions of influence, but these people become vested in protecting the IPCC, which has become central to their own career and legitimizes playing power politics with their expertise.’

  69. #69 Lotharsson
    August 21, 2013

    I have always sat on the fence regarding this co2 thingy.

    Nope, you’re still no good at comedy.

  70. #70 Lotharsson
    August 21, 2013

    The entire framing of the IPCC was designed around identifying sufficient evidence so that the human-induced greenhouse warming could be declared unequivocal…

    So, Judith Curry has gone full-on conspiracy theorist now? Useful to know – we can now pretty reliably ignore everything she claims outside of peer-reviewed journals.

  71. #71 Luke
    August 21, 2013

    The 95% is hardly a scientific estimate though is it. It’s a “we’re pretty bloody sure” expert view. Based on the handful of people that understand the science in sufficient detail involved in the report. The 95% of scientists is also meaningless. Real numbers in these domains are very small.

    chek 62 – because I asked first. I take it you can’t answer either. Put your Mum on.

  72. #72 el gordo
    August 21, 2013

    ‘Put your Mum on.’

    ** chuckle **

  73. #73 BBD
    August 21, 2013

    Still on with your nonsense about models, Luke?

    Try to understand:

    – The model output you are waving around is surface average temperature

    – It is generally higher than observations

    – This is because in the real world, the rate of ocean heat uptake appears to have slightly increased since ~2000.

    – Nobody expects this to continue indefinitely, and when it stops the rate of surface warming will increase *sharply* as the full effects of >400ppm CO2 are manifest.

    – Add in the effects of energy returned to the surface by ocean circulation *also* heating the troposphere.

    At this point, all the moronic denial about the models being “falsified” will look like, well, moronic denial.

    It’s perfectly obvious to non-idiots that paleoclimate evidence demonstrates a fast-feedbacks sensitivity to 2/CO2 of about 3C. It’s perfectly obvious that paleoclimate behaviour is inconsistent with a climate system heavily damped by negative feedbacks and consistent with one where positive feedbacks dominate.

    You may not be able to grasp all this and fit it all together, but some of us can, which is why we disagree strenuously with your simplistic argument which is based on false claim of falsification.

    The problem is in your head, not in the models. But I cannot understand this for you.

  74. #74 BBD
    August 21, 2013

    Agreed about Lucia. She has never understood this. And real efforts have been made to educate her, but she carries on wittering about “falsification”. It’s as if, for her, the entire climate system is troposphere. Either that or she’s pushing an agenda.

  75. #75 BBD
    August 21, 2013

    And Luke, the reason you avoided my questions is because they demonstrated that your argument was nonsense. We both know this, as does everybody else reading this exchange.

    The list grows:

    Page 20 #3 #4 #5

    Page 18 #13.

    Page 18 #40.

  76. #76 cohenite
    August 21, 2013

    ” It is generally higher than observations”

    That’s a keeper.

    And BBD you’re obviously smarter than you sound.

  77. #77 BBD
    August 21, 2013

    And you are obviously as thick as pig-shit with zero topic knowledge. We established this two days ago. Further demonstration is redundant.

  78. #78 BBD
    August 21, 2013

    Note the way the denier picks a single statement, takes it out of context, and repeats it. This is denialist non-argument.

    Context:

    – The model output you are waving around is surface average temperature

    – It is generally higher than observations

    – This is because in the real world, the rate of ocean heat uptake appears to have slightly increased since ~2000.

    – Nobody expects this to continue indefinitely, and when it stops the rate of surface warming will increase *sharply* as the full effects of >400ppm CO2 are manifest.

    – Add in the effects of energy returned to the surface by ocean circulation *also* heating the troposphere.

    At this point, all the moronic denial about the models being “falsified” will look like, well, moronic denial.

    Argument.

  79. #79 BBD
    August 21, 2013

    And now there will be various inane and stupid comments, all diversions, until the serious points raise at #70 are buried and join the list at #72.

    This too, is standard denialist non-argument.

  80. #80 el gordo
    August 21, 2013

    ‘Nobody expects this to continue indefinitely, and when it stops the rate of surface warming will increase *sharply* as the full effects of >400ppm CO2 are manifest.’

    Sorry sunshine you are mistaken, natural variability is a force to be reckoned with.

    Here’s a story that Jeff might like to debate?

    ‘EXCLUSIVE: THE Murray River from the Darling to the sea was listed as “critically endangered” in a final act of federal Labor.

    ‘The Weekly Times can reveal Environment Minister Mark Butler added the Murray and associated wetlands, floodplains and groundwater systems to the threatened ecological communities list just before the Government entered caretaker mode.’

  81. #81 BBD
    August 21, 2013

    Inane and stupid comment #1

  82. #82 BBD
    August 21, 2013

    Natural variability is fluctuation around the mean climate state. It cancels over time and – since it is not a forcing – it does not produce long-term trends. Read a textbook. Or better still, just go away. You have never said anything, and you never will because your understanding of the topic is non-existent.

  83. #83 Lionel A
    August 21, 2013

    gordolocks present argument based upon a strawman:

    I’ll stop talking about global cooling if you stop talking about unnatural warming.

    the strawman of ‘unnatural warming’.

    Why is this, because humans are a part of the natural system thus any warming caused by the human population is entirely natural.

    Those arguing the toss with us here fail to appreciate that humans operate within a natural system and are not outside it controlling it. Control in this instance means the ability to make a system act as we desire. Unfortunately we fall far short of that ability and continue to carry out an uncontrolled experiment on the Earth.

    Please find a copy of this book What Has Nature Ever Done For Us?: How Money Really Does Grow On Trees and read, learn and inwardly digest.

    I don’t expect you, Cox or Luke to understand the import of all that any time soon though. Prove me wrong.

  84. #84 Turboblocke
    August 21, 2013

    Still waiting for Luke to make his point.
    When you’re ready son…

  85. #85 mike
    August 21, 2013

    Hey Jeff!

    Yr. No. 52

    You know, Jeff, ol’ buddy the above comment was such a good one, it inspired me to write a little poem in its honor that celebrates the high-point of your scientific career:

    JEFFS LITTLE ADVENTURE

    Algonquin’s wilds
    Aimed Jeff to chart
    A trek we’ll call
    “Die Grosse Fahrt”

    And since our Jeff
    Thought global warm
    Wreaked everywhere
    Its scary harm

    He mused the stroll
    Would balmy be
    And planned his trip
    Accordingly

    ****

    So off set Jeff
    All bright and bold
    When suddenly
    “Things” got real cold!

    But Jeff was not
    At all abashed
    And at the chill
    Credentials flashed!:

    “A smarty-pants
    Am I and got
    A model here
    That says it’s hot!”

    There then ensued
    A merry fuss
    In which Jeff proved
    The eco-wuss

    And lost his nerve
    Just ‘cuz some toes
    Picked then–“Oh great!”–
    To get all froze

    And turning tail
    Jeff nature fled
    Preferring what
    His model said

    ***

    The moral to
    This silly tale?
    “Mother Nature
    Must not prevail!”

    And so Jeff’s route
    Scored him a trough
    With title grand–
    An “Endowed Prof”!

  86. #86 cohenite
    August 21, 2013

    Hahahaha!

  87. #87 Lionel A
    August 21, 2013

    gordolocks did expel (from 7th rock from the sun at a guess):

    The problem the western world has with CC mass delusion will take years to resolve…

    Well I agree, carbon capture is a mass delusion with those who want to inject it underground (unknown unknowns and all that) for part of the real answer lies in the soil.

    And before you go off on one, CC – yes I know, but then you are nearly always ambiguous and careless with language, and quotes too.

  88. #88 Lionel A
    August 21, 2013

    Hahahaha!

    , you join the in-illustrious club with this as there signature tune where you can find refuge and also loll around like that arch loller Karen.

  89. #89 BBD
    August 21, 2013

    A literally lengthy diversion by mike.

    Silence re #70 from the trolls. But the awkward stuff is fast disappearing in our wake, so they will be back out soon.

    Denialist non-argument in action.

  90. #90 BBD
    August 21, 2013

    Lionel

    That’s the braying of Teh Stupid celebrating its own existence.

  91. #91 cohenite
    August 21, 2013

    Aw c’mon Lionel, everyone needs hobby.

  92. #92 Lionel A
    August 21, 2013

    BBD

    But we have The Monckey and The Corbyn, which pretty much stuffs us. What if someone ever did a cranks/km^2 analysis?

    Indeed and present in this sad story .

    And look who takes centre stage, none other than Richard Lindzen who gets more dissection as the result of some madness at Bishop Hill’s (aka Cardinal Puff – Dragons and all that)..

  93. #93 Lionel A
    August 21, 2013

    Back a few pages #86 on page 21 I raised awareness of a post at Eli’s and Lotharsson noted how interesting that was in the next post #87.

    A development late last night, UK timing, was the entrance oif one Jim Lakely setting himself up, foot mouth and all that as both John Mashey and caerbannog put Lakely straight. If that latter is at all possible that is.

    To make watching developments unfold easier here is a repeat of the link
    There Is No Free Lunch, But How About Two Free Dinners and Your Name on the Heartland Institute’s NIPCC Report.
    .

    These HI folk do like to keep digging don’t they.

  94. #94 Olaus Petri
    August 21, 2013

    Great poem on Little Napoleon Mike” :-) The natural philosohy had von Schelling quality. ;-)

  95. #95 el gordo
    August 21, 2013

    ‘carbon capture is a mass delusion with those who want to inject it underground’

    I agree.

  96. #96 rhwombat
    August 21, 2013

    Fuck, the trolls are thick at present.

  97. #97 Lotharsson
    August 21, 2013

    …the trolls are thick at present.

    Aye, ’twere always thus. There’s no evidence of a thinning trend.

  98. #98 cohenite
    August 21, 2013

    I see Trenberth is predicting more hotspots and wetspots:

    http://cleantechnica.com/2013/08/19/new-ipcc-report-leaked-a-bit-humans-causing-global-warming-global-warming-consequences-speeding-up/

    They’re on the move so hard to pin down. What are the odds the next wetspot turns up in BBD’s trousers?

  99. #99 Karen
    August 21, 2013

    Yeah, to match the area between his ears, lol

  100. #100 Karen
    August 21, 2013

    Oh look……….there is that filthy bestializer @93