November 2013 Open Thread

More thread.

Comments

  1. #1 Bernard J.
    November 12, 2013

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again…

    Notice how Mackulus never puts forward a cogent (or otherwise) scientific argument to support his own fantasies, or to refute the mainstream? He just makes unsubstantiated claims and never follows through with substance, and moves along to the next meme when his previous one is fried in the light of scrutiny.

    The numpty is worse than Oz, because at least the latter could appear to be impressive. Mackulus is just a sad-arsed evolutionary experiment whose germ-line will peter out a little bit sooner than that of the rest of humanity’s that he is so desperate to drag down on the way.

  2. #2 Wow
    November 12, 2013

    There’s not even enough accuracy or coherency in Spots’ mumblings to argue on.

    If there were even a vague approach to rationaility there, there could be something to point out, but there just plain isn’t.

    The greenhouse effect is not hydrological only, and it’s just blurted out “it is”. The only rational response is to just say: You’re wrong, Spots.

  3. #3 BBD
    November 12, 2013

    I’m not quite ready to let this drift off over the horizon yet. Here’s Sunspot (posting as “Mack”) finally outing himself as a physics-denying crank of the most extreme variety:

    There is no “greenhouse effect” , no “greenhouse gases” and the Earth’s temp. is purely hydrological. Simple as that. This concept may be difficult for you to get your head around BBD, but do try to think beyond what you’ve been taught in the school classroom. It’s easy if you try.

    Yes, you read that right. This clown is a complete and utter nutter, right down to the obligatory crank certainty that he knows the real science.

    What a pathetic exhibition of ignorance, stupidity and mental illness. We should not mock the afflicted I know, but this unpleasant, lying, three-sock wonder does not deserve pity.

  4. #4 Lionel A
    November 12, 2013

    Mackspottybottomheadupof:

    Mmmmm. didn’t last long did you BBD. Only 3 or 4 comments and full on ad. hom. Couldn’t hold it together, eh boy.

    Only to the dimwitted who persist in not understanding what an ‘ad hominem’ is. That’s you Mackspottybottomheadupof:

    As for a greenhouse effect Tyndall worked out the mechanism a century and a half ago, here is some help with this:

    Climate Science History – interactive style.

    But of course you will refuse to go anywhere near anything that will abuse you of your rampant ignorance.

  5. #5 Lionel A
    November 12, 2013

    Strewth, are these people totally nuts?

    Coal gasification not given a ‘fair go': Linc Energy

    Fracking is insane but getting the gas by igniting coal seems undergrounds takes things to a new level of madness.

    Who else is on Link Energy’s payroll? Abbott the Black perhaps.

    Picked up on via: The Untold Story Of The Dangerous New Experiment Coal Companies Want To Bring To America.

  6. #6 Lionel A
    November 12, 2013

    BBD

    WRT Aubrey & Maturin another volume you may find of interest and utility is Seamanship in the Age of Sail by John Harland.

    That is the publishers page, the book can also be found at Amazon, of course, note the reviews. I would also give it 5 stars.

    Note also Darcy Lever’s ‘The Young Sea Officer’s Sheet Anchor: Or a Key to the Leading of Rigging and to Practical Seamanship‘ depicted on that Amazon page. I don’t have a copy myself, I am tempted as it is frequently cited in other books written by those in the know.

  7. #7 Olaus Petri
    November 12, 2013
  8. #8 Ian Forrester
    November 12, 2013

    Lionel, if the commenter on that thread at TP is indicative of the intellectual ability of those involved in in situ gasification then prepare for the worst, he doesn’t have a clue as to the chemistry of the process.

    Incidentally, the author of the post referred to the product as “synthetic natural gas” when it is in fact “syn gas” which is different.

  9. #9 BBD
    November 12, 2013
  10. #10 Anthony David (@adavid)
    November 12, 2013

    Someone is out to make a name for themselves. Fossil fuels keep the heat in the earth

    “Coal, oil, oil-gas, and fat belong to the same hydrocarbons, and the functions of their thermal insulation are exactly the same. ”

    This is my favourite line from the paper:
    “Based on mathematical law, when A = B, and B = C, then A = C. So Ee and Ew are equal exactly,” Such insight.

  11. #11 bill
    November 12, 2013

    When you et fluffy little Snowball, Oily, what marinoade did you use?

  12. #12 Lionel A
    November 12, 2013

    The Richard Reiher comment at a guess Ian? There were only a couple of comments when I first saw the article. Yes that is way out!

  13. #13 chek
    November 12, 2013

    Jeezu, an unholy alliance of cranks, shills and “look! a squirrel!” style idiots.
    But a confederacy of losers if only they’d realise it sooner rather than later.

  14. #14 Bernard J.
    November 13, 2013

    Lionel:

    Who else is on Link Energy’s payroll? Abbott the Black perhaps.

    Coincidentally a friend and I had taken to referring him last weekend as “Black Abbott”. There was much merriment resulting from rejigging the lyrics of the theme to Blackadder…

  15. #15 Duckster
    November 13, 2013

    Given the current situation in Australian politics and the media and the climate debate, I think it is high time this site started to become more active again – even if that means asking guest authors or other bloggers to come on board. This used to be grand central for climate change information in Australia – and it is clear that people still navigate and gravitate here looking for that. (love a mixed metaphor!)

  16. #16 bill
    November 13, 2013

    He’ll gut the CSIRO,
    To Science he will not give a Min’stry,
    Climate change is crap, or don’tcha know?
    Could be, the Worst PM in histr’y?!

    Black Abbott, Black Abbott,
    Murdoch’s pet in media,
    Black Abbott, Black Abbott,
    gets his facts from Wikipedia!

    Black Abbott, Black Abbott,
    This anti-science schmuck,
    Black Abbott, Black Abbott,
    Prime Minister, worse luck!

  17. #17 Olaus Petri
    November 13, 2013

    Duckster, the reason for Deltoid’s demise is the extemes views, unscientificnesss and conspiratory thinking epressed by the loudmouths. Their hate and cursings are no more in fashion.

    Portentology heavily spiced with fire and brimstone has seen its best days.

    But I have to admit that I’m fascinated by how the ugly anti-humanism and sooth-saying characterizing this site can go from mainstream in media to something turning into an unpleasant memory.

    Maybe the climate soon is ready for some science again, or more correct, not being distorted by politics,ideology and authoritarian minds?

  18. #18 bill
    November 13, 2013

    Oily, as is amply demonstrated by anybody who takes the time to peruse these threads, you have not the slightest comprehension of the issues in the discussion of climate.

    Indeed, you have only recently completely piked out of giving us you alternative, non-CO2, explanation for the termination of Snowball Earth.

    Without papa Watts or the Sticky Bishop regurgitating pre-masticated chunks into your swollen crop for you to flap straight over and hoik up over here, you are completely helpless, baby bird.

    Indeed, you are as hapless and hopeless a fool as your offsider, the serial sock-puppet, who holds a position so unphysical, and so contemptibly absurd, that even Watts and Monckton disown it!

    So you can prattle on like a gormless plonker all you like, the fact is that it’s you that does not – indeed, can not – get it, you whose opinions are best characterised as ‘sooth-saying’, and you, and your twisted, Dunning-Krugerite cohort, who are the very acme of anti-humanism

    Who has the world’s academies of science to back them, again? And 97% of real-live publishing climate scientists? Hint: it’s not you. The race may not be always to the swift, but that’s how the smart money bets, petal. (Don’t worry, you’ll never figure it out!)

    ‘Conspiratory’ thinking indeed, ‘espressed’ by a sub-literate twonker!

  19. #19 Olaus Petri
    November 13, 2013

    Dear Bill, thanks for confirming.

  20. #20 Jeff Harvey
    November 13, 2013

    Putrid brings up the word, ‘anti-humanism’.

    What a hoot. The guy is unhinged like most deniers. He thinks that those opposing the current dominant bankrupt socio-economic system that is driving poverty and starvation, concentrating wealth, and destroying our ecological life support systems are ‘anti-human’.

    This should tell you all about the mind set of deluded individuals like Olly. Like many of us, he’s a beneficiary of the current rapaciously unsustainable system but he has to bury his guilt in pedantics. He doesn’t do a good job of that, as illustrated by the fact that he’s never read a science book in his life.

  21. #21 BBD
    November 13, 2013

    Dear Bill, thanks for confirming.

    Stop yapping and answer the question about Snowball Earth. Engage like an adult. Demonstrate topic understanding. Demonstrate good faith.

    You talk incessantly and never say anything. Patience is exhausted. It’s time to walk the walk or exit stage left, Olaus.

  22. #22 BBD
    November 13, 2013

    #4 Lionel A

    Thanks again. Earlier suggestions will probably suffice for a non-sailor like me, but I now have a file, with links… More books. No time.

  23. #23 Olaus Petri
    November 13, 2013

    Jeff, I know from before that your mind reading skills hold the same merits as your ability to navigate in the real world, ergo crap.

    On the other hand you are comptent in being angry, very intolerent and extremply prone to conspiracy thinking. Your athoritarian mind set is gargantuan and so is your pathological faiblesse for selfidolatry.

    Schhhhh….Don’t mention the CV…., like John Cleese would say. ;-)

  24. #24 BBD
    November 13, 2013

    Jeff, I know from before that your mind reading skills hold the same merits as your ability to navigate in the real world, ergo crap.

    On the other hand you are comptent in being angry, very intolerent and extremply prone to conspiracy thinking. Your athoritarian mind set is gargantuan and so is your pathological faiblesse for selfidolatry.

    Schhhhh….Don’t mention the CV…., like John Cleese would say. ;-)

    Stop yapping and answer the question about Snowball Earth. Engage like an adult. Demonstrate topic understanding. Demonstrate good faith.

    You talk incessantly and never say anything. Patience is exhausted. It’s time to walk the walk or go, Olaus.

  25. #25 Lionel A
    November 13, 2013

    Hum! Putrid Olas (or maybe Old Yap) aside I think that sock drawer (the swiss roll) is trying to break through again, signs of interrupted service again.

  26. #26 bill
    November 13, 2013

    Let’s face it; you’ve been caught out, Oily! In public. You sad, sad little nonentity, you…

    Any other third-rate, incompetent hacks looking for an eternal electronic humiliation?

  27. #27 Jeff Harvey
    November 13, 2013

    Yes Oily, I am angry and intolerant of the type of willful ignorance you and other like-minded deniers spew forth. People who think like you are perfect examples of those whose consent has been manufactured – with kudos to Walter Lippmann for coining the phrase just under a century ago. You’ll never win any scientific or intellectual arguments but you know that you don’t need to; to ensure the short term status quo is retained, you just have to sow enough doubt as to prevent any meaningful actions being implemented. You are brazenly ignorant about the way the world works, and you function inside your own little myopic shell.

    Thankfully there are those courageous enough to see the world as it really is and who are anxious to make changes. You aren’t one of them. Your consent was manufactured a long time ago. You’ve never put forward a single, cogent, rational thought on this blog. Most of the time you’ve been one of Jonas’ poodles, lapping up everything he says with nary a hint of rationality. You arguments are gleaned entirely from denier web logs with an ax to grind. If you want to risk wading into any relevant areas of global change biology/ecology, then give it a whirl. But be prepared to be sent packing as you usually are.

    And yes, if you must know, my qualifications blow yours out of the water. But that’s not hard, given that you don’t have any at all.

  28. #28 Bernard J.
    November 13, 2013

    I have daughers about this age:

    http://www.smh.com.au/world/philippines-typhoon-survivors-become-desperate-as-rescuers-struggle-to-deliver-aid-20131112-2xct6.html

    http://blackshama.blogspot.com.au/2011_12_01_archive.html

    I weep for the Philippines – literally – and I weep for the future generations whose lives will be blighted by more of this type of horror far above what might otherwise occur if only we had a government of character.

    I abhor and despise the Coalition’s willful and criminally negligent determination to put the profits of their puppeteers and mates above the lives of hundreds of millions, of generations, of so much life on the planet.

    I said last year (or perhaps the year before) that Abbott would be remembered by history as being as bad as Hilter, if not worse. I don’t resile from that opinion.

  29. #30 Bernard J.
    November 13, 2013

    Duckster at #15.

    The thought has crossed my mind. There are several regulars here who I think could do Tim proud.

    Perhaps a delegation?

  30. #31 Lionel A
    November 13, 2013

    Yes well the UK has gone to pot (with a PM who was once caught smoking it) since our coalition took over and is moving in directions which will ensure that we will renege on our climate promises and obligations, policies which include strictures on wind turbine deployment ashore, with my home county of Hampshire, conservative run, in the vanguard. and also making overtures to the ‘frackers’.

    Given the arrogant and ignorant messing up of education, health and defence it will surely not be long before a vote of no confidence ensues. The only thing stopping the Lib Dem’s from jumping that ship is the fact that they are unlikely to do well in any forthcoming election which would surely have to be called if they did abandon the coalition.

  31. #32 Wow
    November 13, 2013

    And the conservatives are removing all records of their pre-election promises, none of which they managed to meet and many they did the 180 degree opposite of.

    Such liars are, of course, bread and butter to the circus that the deniers put on.

  32. #33 Wow
    November 13, 2013

    “The only thing stopping the Lib Dem’s from jumping that ship is the fact that they are unlikely to do well in any forthcoming election ”

    Mostly by demonstrating that they are actually incompetent to be in power.

    So overwhelmed by the actual factual responsibility they abrogated all of THEIR promises because the Tories *even from cabinet ministers in a different cabinet* tell them what to do.

    They’ve managed to prove that they are not worth voting for by virtue of being incompetent, whereas the other two parties are not worth voting for by virtue of being malignant.

    And I’d prefer malice over incompetence. The latter has all the bad sides of the former without any actual ability being necessary, therefore a weeding-out process.

  33. #34 BBD
    November 13, 2013

    with my home county of Hampshire, conservative run, in the vanguard.

    True. Bullingdon Cross, etc. I’m in Hampshire too (as I believe Lionel knows already).

  34. #35 Craig Thomas
    November 13, 2013

    I’m interested to see you mentioning Aubrey/Maturin – I recently decided to re-read the series. Am up to “Reverse of the Medal”. Loving it.

  35. #36 Craig Thomas
    November 13, 2013

    Olaus links us to the blogsite of one Roy Spencer, creationist.

    I notice a graph on that blog which labels the 1998 temperature peaks with the note, “El Nino warming”.

    If Spencer mistakes El Nino for a forcing, then he is incompetent. Olaus, are you reading this? Your source is nonsense.

  36. #37 Craig Thomas
    November 13, 2013

    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/11/global-warming-since-1997-underestimated-by-half/

    “A new study by British and Canadian researchers shows that the global temperature rise of the past 15 years has been greatly underestimated. The reason is the data gaps in the weather station network, especially in the Arctic. If you fill these data gaps using satellite measurements, the warming trend is more than doubled in the widely used HadCRUT4 data, and the much-discussed “warming pause” has virtually disappeared.”

    Now, *that*’s pretty inconvenient for your faith-based believe, wouldn’t you say Olaus, Rednoise, et al.?

  37. #38 bill
    November 14, 2013

    But, of course, facts have never had any impact on the beliefs of the buffoons that turn up here.

    They don’t want to believe it; therefore it’s not true. It’s that simple. Our local serial pests serve as the best possible exemplars that there really is no argument, indeed, no comprehension, there, beyond their cherished ‘gut feeling’ like our equally Stupid former PM, and his even-more-gauche reincarnation.

    Then they get together with a whole bunch of equally Stupid people online, and puff themselves up into believing they’re Galileos, a scalding irony that is a prime example of the Dunning-Kruger effect in itself.

    What we are going to do with them all is a real issue. They’ve caused enough trouble already…

  38. #39 BBD
    November 14, 2013

    We mock them, bill. They are just clowns. The real enemies of mankind are in the boardrooms and never show their faces.

    I suspect the organ grinders regard the monkeys as ultimately expendable. The final misdirection. The monkeys are too stupid to recognise that their paymasters are setting them up to be the targets of public rage when eventually denial becomes utterly untenable. They are to be useful idiots, right to the end.

    It’s all rather obvious, really. The players – and the played.

  39. #40 BBD
    November 14, 2013

    James Hansen:

    Make no doubt, however, if tipping points are passed, if we, in effect, destroy Creation, passing on to our children, grandchildren, and the unborn a situation out of their control, the contrarians who work to deny and confuse will not be the principal culprits. The contrarians will be remembered as court jesters. There is no point to joust with court jesters. They will always be present. They will continue to entertain even if the Titanic begins to take on water. Their role and consequence is only as a diversion from what is important.

    The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children. The court jesters are their jesters, occasionally paid for services, and more substantively supported by the captains’ disinformation campaigns.

  40. #41 MikeH
    November 14, 2013

    The climate cranks are useful idiots who will be ditched as soon as the rich and powerful determine that outright denial can no longer be defended.

    And here is a caroon that sums up the last week.
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYqE_sJCUAA_M5o.jpg

  41. #42 MikeH
    November 14, 2013

    That would be a cartoon

  42. #43 bill
    November 14, 2013

    more like a documentary!…

  43. #44 FrankD
    November 14, 2013

    (oopsie, reposted from the October thread…)

    Who’s up for a trip to pariah country?

    Seriously, will these twerps be the worst government we’ve ever had, or will it just seem like that in the cold hard light of the present? I remember JWH being an arse, but at 6 years distance Mr Rabbit is making me have icky nostalgic feelings…

  44. #45 Bernard J.
    November 14, 2013

    FrankD.

    From the end of that piece:

    Australia’s reputation at these talks needs to change, and it will rely on Prime Minister Abbott’s political will and good diplomatic sense.

    That’s it then. Autralia’s reputation is trashed until the Coalition is voted out.

  45. #46 Lionel A
    November 14, 2013

    Craig @ #35, and BBD

    I also have read this series, on my third passage with the first being at the gallop and out of sequence as I managed to obtain each volume. My third is so as to read slowly and consider the accuracy of the passages where the working and manoeuvring of the ships is covered.

    I don’t know if you have seen the film ‘Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World‘ but look out for the two-disc special edition DVD set.

    On Disc 2 of which is a feature of the making of the film including construction of a full sized tank replica, the purchase and alteration of a frigate ‘The Rose’, filming of sequence preparation and shooting and also music selection and playing. This latter of the two main characters Crowe-Aubrey & Bettany-Maturin and also sequence music by an orchestra.

    One has to admire the amount of detail paid attention to in the making of such a convincing period piece of a film.

    There is also a feature on how Peter Weir approached the making of the film by absorbing himself in the period with artefacts, following in O’Brian’s footprints, absorbing the text of the books.

    I was disappointed that only one film came out of so many books with Weir describing how once you have shaken the words out of the book there isn’t much of a plot. But he does indicate that maybe he would re-visit O’Brian in the future. Well so much time has now elapsed that I doubt that would be plausible without a change of the main cast characters.

  46. #47 Lionel A
    November 14, 2013

    Bernard and Frank

    The problem is that Australia sits on so much mineral wealth, which ‘assets’ those in charge in the background and who think they own Australia will not easily forfeit.

    Australia is likely to live up to the ‘Mad Max’ image and like Canada will continue to create its own versions of Mordor.

    Abbott the Black, Troll in Chief, for the present, but being worked by the the dark lords behind.

  47. #48 Lionel A
    November 14, 2013

    Sheeesh Frank #44

    It is a pity that the comments at that The Conversation piece are closed as I would like to throw a dose of reality at that Andrew Gilmour who cite the following as grist for his Quote: “Top Scientists Slam and Ridicule UN IPCC Climate Report… punt with its:

    …noted Professor Judith Curry…

    …Meteorology Professor Richard Lindzen at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who served as a lead author with the third IPCC report, for example…

    ….climate experts Patrick Michaels and Paul “Chip” Knappenberger…

    with this continuing on Michaels and Knappenberger

    “The Humpty Dumpty-esque report once claiming to represent the ‘consensus of scientists’ has fallen from its exalted wall and cracked to pieces under the burdensome weight of its own cumbersome and self-serving processes, which is why all the governments’ scientists and all the governments’ men cannot put the IPCC report together again,” they wrote [Michaels & Knappenberger], saying the IPCC’s climate models needed fixing as evidenced by the fact that the UN could not even track the Earth’s average temperature for the last 10 to 20 years. The IPCC report, the two experts [strewth – M & K again – experts!] continued, was not only “obsolete on its release, but completely useless as a basis to form opinions (or policy) related to human energy choices and their influence on the climate.”

    In a later post Gilmour cites this propaganda piece Update: U. S. Senate Minority Report: More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims – Scientists Continue to Debunk “Consensus” in 2008 – Released: December 11, 2008 – from Marc ‘motor-mouth’ Morano (of which the over-long title is typical) way back in 2007 with more of the infamous listed:

    New Zealand: IPCC reviewer and climate researcher and scientist Dr. Vincent Gray,

    Poland: Physicist Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski

    Australia: Prize-wining Geologist Dr. Ian Plimer [cough]

    Britain: Dr. Richard Courtney

    Denmark: Space physicist Dr. Eigil Friis-Christensen

    Altogether rather disappointing stuff.

    I would not be surprised if Gilmour crops up at WUWT.

  48. #49 Marco
    November 14, 2013

    That’s “Dr.” Richard Courtney – there’s no evidence he ever got a PhD.

  49. #50 BBD
    November 14, 2013

    Heh – beat me to it, Marco.

  50. #51 chameleon
    November 15, 2013

    Hmmm?
    BBD has been screeching for someone to answer his question.
    I tried 5 days ago . But of course the moderator/s here also succumb to BBD et al and don’t allow a real discussion.
    This place is turning into a ghost town or a hokey backwater.
    Lots of nepotism and backslapping; but no actual discussion about science, politics & the environment.

  51. #52 FrankD
    November 15, 2013

    Lionel #48 – The Conversation has the potential to be a really good site, with its original terms of use basically requiring commenters to be associated with an academic institution. But that was all “oooh, look at them repressing my free speech” so they opened the doors to dickheads like Andrew Gillmour and Marc Hendricx (who should be banned for his spamalicious sig block alone).

    So the conversation at The Conversation becomes the all-too-familiar “look at those socialists trying to contaminate our precious bodily fluids”, pretty much like Boris-Freddie-Kai, but with smarmier English skills.

    But the OP’s are usually interesting before getting dragged down by the usual suspects.

  52. #53 FrankD
    November 15, 2013

    Lionel #47 – These days, I’m almost constantly reminded of the words of Donald Horne, when he dubbed Australia “the Lucky Country”. The quote may be familiar, but perhaps the context is less so. Most think the term was intended positively, but at more length, clearly not: “

    “Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second-rate people who share its luck. It lives on the other people’s ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise… According to the rules Australia has not deserved its good fortune.

    Horne observed that while post-WW2 Europe was reinventing itself to generate wealth through creativity and generating new social institutions to replace the older broken forms, Australia was simply a bunch of rentiers relying on the steady, seemingly endless cashflow of digging shit up and flogging it oveseas, and simply acquiring social advantages without “earning” them (and therefore not valuing them). Despite this Horne was optimistic that a new society and a new economy was coming down the tracks, yet the truth is Australia has remained staggeringly resistant to change, aside from a few brief and rapidly-rewound flirtations. 50 years on, and Australia is reverting to type again, unpacking the bong from wherever we hid it six years ago and packing a nice big coneful of “lucky”.

    Horne’s uncurious second-raters (well, the left are second-raters, the right are mostly third or worse) have fostered an Australian society that is now all grown-up and with a careless addiction – with all the denial, selfishness, rationalisation and self-justification that goes with it – that will ensure we cause the maximum harm to others.

    I think its time to move to Denmark… :-(

  53. #54 Lionel A
    November 15, 2013

    FrankD #52

    As it happens a series of novels mentioned here and in last month’s thread the Patrick O’Brian ‘Luck’ Jack Aubrey and Stephen Maturin books that began with ‘Master and Commander‘ visit some of the inequities that were prevalent in this new, penal, colony that became Australia.

    The two books ‘The Nutmeg of Consolation‘ and ‘Clarissa Oaks’, which latter is published in the US under the tile ‘The Truelove‘ have the plot involving the colony. Why do Americans have to do this, publish a book under a different title?

    Indeed the plot of these books weaves around the events involving Bligh, Jamieson and Macarthur and the ‘Rum Rebellion’ with the duel involving Jack Aubrey’s ship’s surgeon Stephen Maturin and an escaped convict Clarissa Oaks, HMS Surprise being chased out to sea by an ‘Australian’ revenue cutter after Oaks.

    O’Brian brilliantly weaves into this series real events of the period, such as a Stock Exchange scam which Aubrey becomes unwittingly involved in, finding himself in the stocks, from which he was rescued. I’ll not spoil the plot further by revealing how in case you decide to dip into this genre. O’Brian is far more convincing than C S Forrester which latter is nudged into third place IMHO by Richard Woodman with the Nathaniel Drinkwater series, with Alexander Kent (aka Douglas Reeman) bringing up the rear and I think aimed at a different, perhaps younger, readership.

    There are also books by Julian Stockwin and Showell Styles that may appeal to ‘younger’ readers.

  54. #55 Lionel A
    November 15, 2013

    I have been fencing with omnologos over at Climate Crocks, although omnologos insists on using his rhetorical cudgel, below the ‘Fauxpause: Warming Underestimated by Half article and began to think that omno’ is a denizen at WUWT. This has been confirmed by recent posts at Sou’s HotWhopper e.g. in the post where I found this excellent reply from MikeH, which ended with this cracker:

    There is also a rather infantile take on the paper at Bishop Hill which drew this response from Gavin Schmidt on twitter.
    “This is a significantly lower bar than Arthur C Clarke had in mind for the inability of some to distinguish science”
    http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2013/11/15/climate-magic.html

    Well done Mike, the twerps just cannot help putting their feet in their mouths can they, this after the peccant parts have been lopped off ‘Black Knight’ style.

  55. #56 Lionel A
    November 15, 2013

    Oh, look who’s arrived! cham’on @ # 51

    I tried 5 days ago

    Well try again it’s never too late.

  56. #57 Lionel A
    November 15, 2013

    BBD our county is going to be ‘fracked’,

    Hampshire County Council accused of towing Government line in fracking row.

    on the wider UK picture:

    Fracking Digest

    Note this remark:

    “Tim Yeo, chair of the Energy and Climate Change Committee, raised eyebrows when, speaking to was speaking to an audience of energy industry representatives and diplomats at the Westminster Russia Forum, he expressed the possibility of climate change being due to natural causes.

    .

    I smell the GWPF at work!

    I am still trying to pick the bones out of all this and a google on “fracking licences” AND “Hampshire” has turned up documents. More reading!!!

  57. #58 BBD
    November 15, 2013

    # 51 chameleon

    If you mean your handwave at volcanism, I saw it and responded at the time. I said then – and repeat now – that you need to explain the physical mechanism by which volcanism contributed to the termination of the Snowball phase. Just going “volcanism!” is not sufficient.

    If you need a clue, go back and read the thread.

  58. #59 BBD
    November 15, 2013

    Lionel

    Oh yes. The future wrt fracking looks fairly clear now. And the GWPF has pushed this from the outset. No doubt from a disinterested and objective stance…

    I propose a neology: we can modify “lackeys” into “frackeys”.

    BTW, did you see our very own Peter Lilley out himself as a denier in comments at RC the other day?

    See # 12 and Gavin’s response to # 18.

  59. #60 BBD
    November 15, 2013

    This is blatant bollocks, so out it goes:

    BBD has been screeching for someone to answer his question.

    Being mischaracterised by self-serving liars is irritating. So don’t do it, ‘chameleon’.

  60. #61 Lionel A
    November 15, 2013

    BBD @ #59 WRT Lilley and RC, yes I did see that and I was sure that my 2 & 2 made 4 too.

    But then we knew about Lilley already, a fan of Lindzen in London, as reported on at Martin Lack’s blog.

  61. #62 BBD
    November 15, 2013

    It’s funny how a distinct double standard has emerged with politicians and climate science. Politicians don’t generally espouse, even promote, a view directly counter to the standard scientific position. But with climate science, it’s different.

  62. #63 bill
    November 15, 2013

    Chebbie, you’re still as dumb as a sack of coal. You certainly won’t do any better than your dimwit peers have done. Run away!

  63. #64 chameleon
    November 15, 2013

    No BBD,
    My next comment after the one you refer to languished in moderation.
    It’s up now so perhaps you could check?
    Whoever moderates this site is killing it by succumbing to all the whingers.

  64. #65 FrankD
    November 16, 2013

    I’ll not spoil the plot further by revealing how in case you decide to dip into this genre.

    I’ve read an enjoyed a few of the earlier O’Brian’s, but not this (and none at all for years), so thanks for the non-spoiler. My brother (a day-racing sailor) has been pestering me to read more of them for a while.

    O’Brian is far more convincing than C S Forrester … with Alexander Kent (aka Douglas Reeman) bringing up the rear…

    Yes, I read a dozen or so Kent’s as a kid (the whole set as it was in 1983, but I know its grown since), and even then thought of them as enjoyable hokum. Reeman was better under his own name.

    I’m a little surprised that this sub-discussion hasn’t (as far as I’ve seen, I’ve not been following religiously) mentioned C. Northcote Parkinson. The Richard Delancey stories have a “truthiness” lacking in the Bolithos, and his Hornblower Companion is an excellent acquisition for any who like Forrester.

    But without pointing the finger at any one author, its a genre I found dominated by pot-boilers which were amusing but lacked substance. Generally I’ve preferred very short series or one-off’s – I found The Long Fight absorbing, for instance; the one venture into the genre by ex-Battle of the Atlantic LCDR D.A. Rayner, more famous for writing The Enemy Below.

    And YMMV of course, but (not being ex-RN) I’m not so wedded to the whole “Jolly Jack Tars showing those Frenchies what for, eh?” vibe. There are a sufficiently large number of excellent one-off naval history books that read like fiction to keep me amused – a lot of which recount events which have been ripped-off for fictional characters deeds. I’d recommend a few titles, but all my Napoleonic/Age of Sail stuff has been in storage for several years – my house is definitely deficient in the “walls, lining with books, for the use of” department…

  65. #66 Lionel A
    November 16, 2013

    BBD @ #59 WRT Peter Lilley,

    There are two, at present, follow up comments to that which you cited, the first from edgeofkaos where Gavin provides weight for the identity of that mendacious or ignorant one. In either case a vote of no confidence is due, in particular considering the obvious conflict of interest.

    The second from deconvoluter provides a little more background. Not that I have learned anything new but it it is good to see more exposure.

    Is it not past time that the GWPF was stripped of its educational aspirations smokescreen and lost its charitable status. I suspect that shredders are working overtime as I write this. Lawson & co’ are planetary hooligans.

  66. #67 BBD
    November 16, 2013

    #64 chameleon

    BBD # 56
    Apologies if a similar comment appears as I have had to change devices. My trusty old samsung tablet is in its death throws [sic].
    You did get a credit from me for asking a sensible question but I have now removed your credit for assuming that there is only one possible answer.
    Volcanic influence is most likely the addition of magna and Laava heat. Volcanic gases and ash and particulants spewed into the atmosphere would most likely, on balance, block the influence of solar activity.
    I note you summarily dismissed other likely variables in favour of a blinkered focus and obsession for C O 2 . So sorry, but no gold star from me :-)

    Let’s examine this.

    1/ Short-lived aerosol spikes from volcanism will cause a slight cooling, though this is insignificant when the climate system is already in a Snowball state. So irrelevant.

    2/ The Marinoan glaciation lasted for many millions of years. Intermittent and – on geological time-scales – infinitesimally brief episodes of volcanism cannot overcome a whole-surface albedo-locked icehouse state. They are tiny flickers. Volcanism doesn’t heat the climate system today, so how you can possibly imagine that it was enough to haul it out of a planetary icehouse state is completely beyond me. Try thinking before typing.

    3/ This leaves accumulating CO2 from volcanism, unable to leave the atmosphere because all the carbon sinks are shut down beneath the ice. Over millions of years, concentrations inevitably rise and the forcing inevitably increases until eventually sufficient to overcome even the extremely powerful albedo cooling effect and the Snowball state terminates. This is the only plausible physical mechanism for terminating Snowball climate states. I cannot lose credit for pointing out that this is the case. Attempting to point-score as you did makes you look like a cretin.

    Your arguments are junk, which is why they were dismissed. The only plausible physical mechanism is CO2 forcing which you deny because you are a denier. The blinkers are on your face, not mine. The obsession with denying the evidence all all costs – including your own intellectual integrity – is yours, not mine.

    You need to get a grip on your incessant projection. It is, or should be, embarrassing.

  67. #68 BBD
    November 16, 2013

    F.F.S

    #64 chameleon

    BBD # 56
    Apologies if a similar comment appears as I have had to change devices. My trusty old samsung tablet is in its death throws [sic].
    You did get a credit from me for asking a sensible question but I have now removed your credit for assuming that there is only one possible answer.
    Volcanic influence is most likely the addition of magna and Laava heat. Volcanic gases and ash and particulants spewed into the atmosphere would most likely, on balance, block the influence of solar activity.
    I note you summarily dismissed other likely variables in favour of a blinkered focus and obsession for C O 2 . So sorry, but no gold star from me :-)

    Let’s examine this.

    1/ Short-lived aerosol spikes from volcanism will cause a slight cooling, insignificant when the climate system is already in a Snowball state. So irrelevant.

    2/ The Marinoan glaciation lasted for many millions of years. Intermittant and – on geological time-scales – infinitesmally brief episodes of volcanism cannot overcome a whole-surface albedo-locked icehouse state. They are tiny flickers. Volcanism doesn’t heat the climate system today, so how you can possibly imagine that it was enough to haul it out of a planetary icehouse state is completely beyond me. Try thinking before typing.

    3/ This leaves accumulating CO2 from volcanism, unable to leave the atmosphere because all the carbon sinks are shut down beneath the ice. Over millions of years, concentrations inevitably rise and the forcing inevitably increases until eventually sufficient to overcome even the extremely powerful albedo cooling effect and the Snowball state terminates. This is the only plausible physical mechansim for terminating Snowball climate states. I cannot lose credit for pointing out that this is the case. Attempting to point-score as you did makes you look like a cretin.

    Your arguments are junk, which is why they were dismissed. The only plausible physical mechanism is CO2 forcing which you deny because you are a denier. The blinkers are on your face, not mine. The obsession with denying the evidence all all costs – including your own intellectual integrity – is yours, not mine.

    You need to get a grip on your incessant projection. It is, or should be, embarrassing.

  68. #69 Lionel A
    November 16, 2013

    This is the only plausible physical mechansim for terminating Snowball climate states.

    Don’t be silly BBD, it was God orbiting with a blow-torch.

    Well that is what creationist chameleon thinks.

  69. #70 chek
    November 16, 2013

    One only has to look at the major “portents” (as our Swedish moron contingent would call them) since the “magickal” year of 1998 – the collapse of the Larsen B iceshelf in Antarctica(2002), Arctic ice collapse (2005), Hurricane Katrina SE USA (2005), the major droughts and dust storms in China, Australia and the USA (2009-2010), the further record collapse of the Arctic ice in summer 2012, and Hurricane Sandy’s devastation of the NE USA just a year ago to know that the denial script of “the pause” was only ever a PR stunt never backed up by anything but the most selective choosing of “the facts”.

    Taking the retro-nautical theme of some recent posts into account, Lawson, Watts and their whole scummy crew should be hung from the highest yard arm for what they’ve tried to achieve in the period.

  70. #71 adelady
    November 16, 2013

    The problem is that Australia sits on so much mineral wealth, which ‘assets’ those in charge in the background and who think they own Australia will not easily forfeit.

    Perhaps someone should point out to these clowns that Australia also sits on a “wealth” of asbestos deposits.

    Well, not quite. They were a wealth asset until the community decided that they were too dangerous to dig up and use. Their current (lack of) value reflects that.

    The same thing is going to happen to fossil “assets” at some time in the not so distant future. They can jump up and down and wail and whine about how valuable and important these things are, but they will go the inevitable way of all those makers of “valuable” buggy whips, whalebone corsets, asbestos products and typewriters. If they had any commercial sense they’d be looking to get onto the new wealth bus before the fossil one leaves them stranded.

  71. #72 FrankD
    November 17, 2013

    Adelady, its funny that the “socialiists” and “alarmists” are the ones advocating sensible and measured adjustment to the capitalist landscape to preserve maximum wealth, while the “conservative” and “rational” people are advocating doing nothing until the market reduces these to stranded assets and panic selling crashes stock prices for these companies.

    It’s almost like there are people who think that if they can just stay one step ahead of the mug punter, that they can actually benefit from a market crash in these sectors…. *gasp*

    ;-)

  72. #73 chameleon
    November 17, 2013

    BBD,
    There is little to no point trying to discuss this issue when my comments languish in moderation (partly at your behest) because whoever the moderator is here succumbs to rather pathetic whinging and conspiracy theories.
    You had to copy/paste my comment from the previous page to continue the discussion.
    If you bothered to read my comments with your blinkers off, you would perhaps have noticed that Volcanism was but one of the factors I highlighted and that in reality you were the one who latched onto and then commenced hand waving re volcanism.
    I am not denying that extra CO2 from volcanic activity could play its part.
    However from your own comments here:
    “Short-lived aerosol spikes from volcanism will cause a slight cooling, insignificant when the climate system is already in a Snowball state. So irrelevant.”

    and here:

    infinitesimally brief episodes of volcanism cannot overcome a whole-surface albedo-locked icehouse state. They are tiny flickers.

    If the spikes are short lived then perhaps your comments about the longevity of CO2 from short lived, infinitesimally brief episodes of volcanism that are tiny flickers would need some assistance from other sources, influences and forcings than just volcanic CO2?

  73. #74 bill
    November 17, 2013

    Chebbie, quit your moaning. The reason you’re not getting on autnmatically is the system thinks you’re ‘new’, and you’re automatically going into the moderation queue.

    And that’s it! That’s the sum total of the conspiracy against you, you poor lamb!

    Doubtlessly you think it’s a crying shame that abusive nutters and serial sock-puppeteers aren’t allowed the run of this place indefinitely. Nice fellow-travellers you have there!…

  74. #75 Mack
    November 17, 2013

    Adelady…..”Perhaps someone should point out to these clowns”
    The clown you’re pointing out is the looney old pommie wacko, Lionel …..comment #47.

  75. #76 chameleon
    November 17, 2013

    If you are referring to me Bill, that would be incorrect. I am not new and at the start my comments were always accepted. I appeared here when Tim last posted on SLR, which I believe is approximately 12 months ago. The post was recommended to me by a friend but at the time I was unaware that said friend had tongue in cheek.
    After much whining and accusation about me being a sock, I was put into permanent moderation. It was quite ironic because at that point I was fairly new to commenting on blogs and I didn’t know what a sock was.
    It was in the same timeframe that Brad Keyes was corralled to his own thread, again apparently, because of constant whinging by the usual suspects.
    But, it doesn’t really bother me. I come back on the odd occasion to see what’s happening, which is very little BTW, and I sometimes feel inspired to comment.
    Because there is almost no traffic here these days, on rare occasions my comments are let out of moderation before the page changes.
    The behaviour of whoever moderates this site would be a major reason why this blog is turning into a sad little ghost town IMO :-)

  76. #77 bill
    November 17, 2013

    Oooooh – black hole chastises kettle! Bugger off, SunSpam…

  77. #78 Mack
    November 17, 2013

    Nah , hell Billbaby. I’ve got plenty of popcorn, so enjoy every now and again popping in to read the rants and blatherings of you AGW brainwashed numbskulls here. For entertainment value you’re pretty good yourself . For a fuckwitted believer you’ve got heaps of talent .

  78. #79 Jeff Harvey
    November 17, 2013

    Mackspotspam is a real hoot. Given the overwhelming empirical evidence, the only ‘brainwashing’ in favor of AGW is purely scientific. On the other hand, the deniers have been immensely brainwashed by a veritable sea of corporate media and blog propaganda based entirely on profit.

    As Bill said, bugger off Spammy and stick to your delusions.

  79. #80 Lionel A
    November 17, 2013

    Ah! Mack the Yack strikes again with vacuous blatherings sprayed around like he/she/it is wielding an Uzi, but with loads of soft brown smelly stuff as ammo. One day that fan will get him.

  80. #81 bill
    November 17, 2013

    He has a fan?

  81. #82 Lionel A
    November 17, 2013

    chek @ #70

    Taking the retro-nautical theme of some recent posts into account, Lawson, Watts and their whole scummy crew should be hung from the highest yard arm for what they’ve tried to achieve in the period.

    Nah! That is to easy for them considering the mass suffering that is, and will further, ensue. keelhauling is the ticket , GWPF say hello to Barnacle Bill and if you survive meet him again next week.

    I can hear the howls of faux-disgust from the denier/delayer camp now.

    I hear that Matt Ridley lectured in Australia recently H/T Sou . Now somebody clever enough to write about the ‘Genome’ is clever enough to know what he is about – propaganda dangerous to life as we know it.

    Fancy that, that wonderful ‘Genome’ endangered thanks partly to he who wrote about it.

  82. #83 Lionel A
    November 17, 2013

    From a discussion below Tamino’s ‘Fire Down Below’ article I picked up on this clip:

    Outback Australia “fire tornado” . I noticed asimilar clip from Brazil in the right hand column.

    This is probably what the fire storms raised by concentrated bombing in WW2, notably Hamburg, resembled. The fires took hold with such force that fire-storms were created where every object not anchored down, including humans, from a many mile radius were pulled into the centre by the strong winds to further fuel the fire.

    Adapt to that Abbott!

  83. #84 BBD
    November 17, 2013

    The physics-denying troll is back I see.

    Hello Sunspot’s sockpuppet! Just reminding you that you are in breach of your conditions here! You shouldn’t be running a sock and you shouldn’t be commenting except on the Sunspot thread! Tut, tut!

    Anyway, since you are here, what fundamental aspects of physics would you like to deny today? Gravity? Electromagnetic radiation? Conservation of energy? What takes your fancy?

    Or how about broadening the field a bit? Do you deny the moon landings, do you think Oswald was alone, where do you stand on Roswell and alien abductions etc? Come on over and share your crankery with us. We know your views on climate change so let’s hear your unhinged discourse on some fresh topics for a change.

    * * *

    Clearly one thing we are never going to get out of you is a description of a physical mechanism by which Snowball Earth states terminate that doesn’t require substantial forcing from CO2. Because you weren’t up to that, were you, my little troll? You just imploded and scuttled away.

  84. #85 adelady
    November 17, 2013

    Lawson, Watts and their whole scummy crew should be hung from the highest yard arm for what they’ve tried to achieve in the period.

    Nuh. What I wish for these people is that one day they wake up to the appalling reality of their behaviour. They’ll calm themselves down and get on with their day. Then, every day thereafter, they’ll awake to the shock of realising just how awful they’ve been as people and just how responsible they are for the consequences. Every. Single. Day.

    They’ll learn coping strategies from their therapists and they may, eventually, get over their stomach churning thoughts.

    Eventually.

  85. #86 BBD
    November 17, 2013

    Indeed. As dear old Grandma used to say: hanging’s too good for some.

  86. #87 Lionel A
    November 17, 2013

    On the GWPF I have just seen this, H/T John Mashey at DeSmogBlog:

    Lord Lawson’s climate-change think tank risks being dismantled after complaint it persistently misled public.

    And that article does not mention half the horrors from the GWPF, who arranged ‘Lindzen in London’ for starters?

  87. #88 BBD
    November 17, 2013

    The old fib repeated by Peiser:

    Dr Benny Peiser, GWPF’s director firmly rebutted Mr Ward’s claims.

    “The GWPF has never participated in any campaigning and does not promote any particular line of opinion. In fact, the GWPF does not have an official or shared view about the science or politics of global warming – although we are of course aware that these issues are not settled,” said Dr Peiser, a former senior lecturer in sports science at Liverpool John Moores University.

    This is simply not true, as the Carbon Brief demonstrated back in 2011.

    Peiser’s “firm rebuttal” is transparently dishonest. Since it’s the work of seconds to demonstrate that the GWPF is a disinformation machine, it would be nice to see its abuse of charitable status terminated. But I won’t hold my breath.

  88. #89 BBD
    November 17, 2013

    Bloody good on Bob Ward though. Hats off. In the unlikely event I ever run into him, he will not pay for a drink that night.

  89. #90 chek
    November 18, 2013

    Indeed, it would be spectacularly karmic to see the GWPF board taken down – AND – even replaced by sane people, or disbanded. Here’s hoping, and wishing on a star for luck.

    But didn’t some tame judge rule not that long ago (a search just dredges up a lot of denier shit (mostly of the Dr. Benny authored variety, so I’m relying on memory) that the GWPF were too inconsequential to divest of their tax-payer rip-off wolf-in-sheep’s-clothing schtick? Which was novel, if on the face of it demeaning, but nevertheless allowed them to continue on as if nothing had happened, which presumably was a ‘win’ for them.
    Maybe Bob will have better luck.
    I’ll stand him the chasers and shots, BBD.

  90. #91 Stu
    November 19, 2013

    Oh, hai. That “hiatus” since 1998? Yeah, umm, actually, not so much:
    http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/11/impacts-of-climate-change-observed-in-global-precipitation-patterns/
    (No deniers are even disputing this, in the comments there or in here — must be that the talking points haven’t been composed yet… well, there was Curry’s feeble flailing, but that was too pathetic for even the average troglodyte.)

    Also, better rev up that prime land in Canada:
    http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/11/impacts-of-climate-change-observed-in-global-precipitation-patterns/

  91. #92 Stu
    November 19, 2013
  92. #93 BBD
    November 19, 2013

    chek

    You remember correctly. A miserable day for British justice. Details here:

    Judge McKenna said in her ruling: “We are not satisfied that the charity is so influential as to make the disclosure of its financial affairs a matter of legitimate public interest outweighing the privacy rights of the data subject.”

    Brendan Montague, the director of the Request Initiative, made the original request to the Charity Commission and argued that because the think tank has board members from across the House of Lords and sets out to influence newspapers and policy makers the public should know where its funding has come from. Montague will seek legal advice before deciding whether to appeal.

    He said: “Judge Alison McKenna has found against me on the grounds that Lord Lawson’s climate sceptic thinktank is simply not as influential as the former chancellor has made out in his own company accounts. We provided evidence of Lawson enjoying private lunches with the current chancellor, George Osborne, and so I only wish I shared her view.”

    “The tribunal has found the claims of influence over policymakers by Lord Lawson ‘surprising’ in light of the fact the Global Warming Policy Foundation is registered as an educational charity. The judge states this is ‘a matter for the Charity Commission’ and I hope the regulator will now properly investigate this highly-connected lobbying machine.”

    Climate scientist professor James Hansen, climate historian professor Naomi Oreskes and professor of ethics Clive Hamilton submitted witness statement to the tribunal to say the public interest would be served by naming the donor. The Poles Apart report published by James Painter of the Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism was also presented in evidence of the influence of the GWPF.

    They won’t get away with it forever.

  93. #94 Lionel A
    November 19, 2013

    To add the last paragraph from that article quoted by BBD above:

    Lord Lawson told the Guardian before the tribunal hearing that he had “no intention of responding to Mr Montague’s political attack on me and on the GWPF”. The GWPF states that it does not accept donations from the energy industry, or anyone with a “significant interest” in the energy industry.

    Maybe all this should be brought to the attention of any investigation into the workings of the GWPF:

    the DeSmogBlog GWPF roll. Does not Peter Lilley being a a director with Tethys Petroleum count as “significant interest” ? I am sure that Lilley is not counted amongst the to make up the numbers, note his recent post over at Real Climate mentioned above in this thread.

    Do judges go out of their way to not see the evidence which would damn most others?

    From the Lilley page at DeSmog:

    Mr Lilley racked up 228 hours of work for Tethys, FACOR and IDOX plc, a document management company where he is also a director.

    Now what does a ‘document management company’ do?

    Teach people how to use shredders perhaps. There’s handy for you.

  94. #95 Lionel A
    November 19, 2013

    At that DeSmog roll of GWPF dishonour note the doings of one The Guardian Reveals Key Funder of Global Warming Policy Foundation Is Michael Hintzeand as commenter ‘HengistMcStone‘ notes:

    The GWPF claims to eschew donations from the Oil Industry or those with a significant interest in the Oil Industry. Hintze is the Big Fish behind CQS Hedge Fund. They’re big in financing oil risks, for my money thats significant

    http://twitpic.com/92izum

    Is that not enough to hang the GWPF out to dry.

    Of course Chris Huhne, one time energy secretary, described the GWPF as “misinformed, wrong and perverse.”

    Well they made sure hew was hung out – convenient eh?

  95. #96 BBD
    November 19, 2013

    “Significant interest” is meaningless. Just weasel words. It doesn’t come close to defining indirect energy industry funding via “think tanks” directly or indirectly funded by energy companies, nor does it preclude energy industry funding via anonymising fronts like Donors Trust.

    If the GWPF has nothing to hide, why is it refusing to disclose the sources of its funding?

  96. #97 Lionel A
    November 19, 2013

    Indeed, ‘significant’ is a word that can mean ‘just what Lawson wishes it to mean, nothing more nothing less’ , (apologies to Charles Lutwidge [1] Dodgson), a point which I had intended to make.

    The GWPF should be given the choice, reveal source of funding or relinquish charity status and be find for duplicity tantamount to fraud pay any back taxes thus due. Should not any doners be revealed by virtue of tax avoidance filings?

    [1] To echo another recent topic one of Horatio Nelosn’s early mentors, and life long friend was Captain Skeffington Lutwidge captain of the converted bomb vessel HMS Carcass (name from one form of ballista missile) which took Nelson to the Arctic and his encounter with a polar bear, as the story goes.

  97. #98 ducksterr
    theabundantduck@gmail.com
    November 20, 2013

    Hi Bernard

    Thanks. I am glad someone responded. Regarding the idea of asking Tim if a couple of regulars here could take up posting. I will send an e-mail to Tim. You will need to recommend your regulars though.

    Duckster

  98. #99 Craig Thomas
    November 20, 2013

    http://joannenova.com.au/2013/11/monckton-bada/

    His royal nuttiness, Lord Screaming Monckton, puts his journalism background to good use and re-writes history:

    When I’ve talked to Monckton about this, he says they are waiting results from clinical trials, and the BBC fished and edited his remark to hide that.
    ” The [BBC] creep who made the programme had visited me in Scotland and asked me, on camera, about the medical invention that cured me of 25 years’ crippling illness four years ago. I had said it showed promise against various infections, but until we had done the clinical trials that are now in preparation we were not making any claims.

    The creep said my answer was too long and complicated. He asked me simply to list the diseases the invention might be effective against. I said, “We have had some promising indications and, subject to clinicial trials, it is possible that we can cure [followed by a list of infections]”. The clip was edited dishonestly. What was broadcast was “We can cure the list of infections]”.

    In no time an Australian climate extremist at Melbourne “University” had complained to the medical regulators in the UK that I was conducting unauthorized clinical trials. The complaint failed when I pointed out that the BBC programme had evilly tampered with what I had said, the extremist had lied in correspondence and, in any event, he had no standing to interfere.”

    I’d be interested to know the facts behind this so-called complaint from somebody at Melbourne University. Based on Monckton’s previous nonsenses, the truth will be significantly different from his account.

  99. #100 bill
    November 20, 2013

Current ye@r *