July 2014 Open Thread

More thread.


  1. #1 Lotharsson
    July 20, 2014

    Already did, GSW, already did – it’s another small means to poke a stick in the (metaphorical) eye of those in power who don’t give a shit about the climate or those who will get screwed by it and want inconveniently dissenting voices to be heard an awful lot less – quite apart from the direct value provided by the Climate Council’s work.

    But if you’re going to dub things “begging”, it’s seem passing strange that you’ve failed to post about all the denialist begging that’s gone on over the last year or two. It would be irresponsible not to speculate why your observations are so one-sided, no?

  2. #2 Lionel A
    July 20, 2014

    But if you’re going to dub things “begging”, it’s seem passing strange that you’ve failed to post about all the denialist begging that’s gone on over the last year or two.

    Indeed, I wonder what GSW thinks this is about. Warning Monkey business have a barff bag handy or de-clutter the floor before viewing.

    Duffer still has not answered my question in that respect.

  3. #3 Sou
    July 20, 2014

    Tim, I’ve got two comments stuck in moderation. They are essentially the same, so you only need to retrieve one of them if you get the chance to check them.


  4. #5 Lionel A
    July 20, 2014

    Oops, drat, being harassed by another hope this is clearer.

    To show how devious Monckton is being by displaying this graph I extended the range of my woodfortrees plot linked up-thread first back to 1995 which showed even RSS as a positive trend but not quite so marked as if one extends back to 1991.

  5. #6 freddy
    July 21, 2014

    Monckton does not listen to alarmists!

  6. #7 Lionel A
    July 21, 2014

    Having a copy of Bill McGuire’s ‘Waking the Giant’ I was curious about his ‘Global Catastrophes’ (surprise pdf link found here) when I noticed this compact and well produced book on the shelves.

    Although a bit long in the tooth at nine years since published date , Katrina being mentioned, it looks at a range of bad moods we can expect from mother nature as we continue to warm and otherwise deface this planet.

    The beginning of the chapter, ‘Global Warming: A lot of Hot Air?’ includes these very apposite statements considering we are now those nine years on and we know some of those responsible for a lack of concerted action and Bill names one such, from pages 23-24:

    What I find extraordinarily irresponsible is that this dispute continues to be presented, at least in some circles, as a battle between two similarly sized and equally convincing schools of scientific thought, when in fact this is far from the case…

    …Notwithstanding a few maverick scientists, oil company apologists, and the president of the world’s greatest polluter, the overwhelming consensus amongst those who have a grasp of the facts is that without a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions things are going to get very bad indeed. Amazingly, this prospect is still played down and intentionally hidden behind a veil of obfuscation by some, most recently by the – in my opinion – self-deluded Danish statistician, Bjorn Lomborg. In his widely savaged book, The Skeptical Environmentalist, Lomborg denigrates global warming and its future impact, while at the same time, through highly selective references to scientific research, coming to the conclusion that all is right with the world. Just in case you have come across this work and been lulled by its friendly, do-nothing message into a false sense of security, let me bring you back to reality, if I may, with a few pertinent facts.

    Such a book would be worth the reading for the likes of a certain John character who popped up on HotWhopper recently.

  7. #8 Nick
    July 22, 2014

    Moron at #95 must enjoy the irony of WUWT running that stale attack piece on Flannery while Watts always has the begging bowl out….

    The contents of the piece by ‘Eric Worrall’ is just repetition of quote-mining by News Ltds finest minds…obviously a slow news week at the website for the slow-minded by the slow-minded.

  8. #9 Olaus Petri
    July 22, 2014

    Friends, to make you less lonley here is the current state of the “death spiral” aka the “canary” in climate scientology:


    Scary isn’t it? 😉

  9. #10 Nick
    July 22, 2014

    I don’t know about scary, but it’s well over 1,000,000 km2 below the mean for the satellite period baselines for this date…so the melt season is unfolding pretty much as expected.

  10. #11 Olaus Petri
    July 22, 2014

    At least the canary is better off than “previously thought”: 😉


  11. #12 Nick
    July 22, 2014

    #4 the pick-one-outlier-and-snigger school of ‘criticism’. Arctic sea ice decline is ahead of schedule according to IPCC review of all projections.

    I can’t snigger at you as an outlier, OP, as your rejectionist projection is bang in the middle of abysmal.

  12. #13 Lionel A
    July 22, 2014

    Well Ill raise you on that oh oily prat:

    PIOMAS Arctic Sea Ice VOLUME

    Full context @:

    Neven’s Arctic Sea Ice Blog

    Reada da wordsa oily prat.

    Now stop being so silly.

  13. #14 Jeff Harvey
    July 22, 2014

    Nick, OP’s problem is that he hasn’t yet gone ‘instinct’…

    If only.

  14. #15 Olaus Petri
    July 22, 2014

    Dear Lionel, what are you raising?

  15. #16 Lionel A
    July 22, 2014

    Roll-up! Roll-up! Roll-up! Enter the clown of the circus that is Australian Parliament:

    Tony Abbott – the bridge builder.

    Sorry, but I really do not understand how such a creature could rise to the top, GSW, OP & co. may have the answers here.

  16. #17 Olaus Petri
    July 22, 2014

    I believe I have the answer Lionel. Abbot is a reaction against the unscientific climate scare cult. In other words he is your fault. 🙂

  17. #18 Lotharsson
    July 22, 2014

    At least the canary is better off than “previously thought.

    Disingenuous, as previously explained. It’s better off than the worst end of the range of projections from arguably the most pessimistic researcher. That doesn’t make it “better than previously thought” by the profession, and if you understand projection ranges it doesn’t necessarily make it “better than previously thought” by that researcher.

    So apart from the fact that you’re reiterating a disingenuous argument, if I’m now confirmed to be only dying of one terminal disease instead of two I was previously diagnosed with, would you tell me that I have nothing to worry about?

    (Are you truly that thick, or do you just play super-thick on blogs because you’re not good enough to play it on TV?)

  18. #19 turboblocke
    July 22, 2014

    #9 Lionel, that was most amusing.

  19. #20 Jeff Harvey
    July 23, 2014

    Putrid’s point is like arguing that an extinction (or, in his case, instinction) rate that is predicted by experts to be as bad as 40% over a given time frame turns out to be ‘only’ 30%… as Lotharsson says above. And of course, anyone with half a brain would realize that an extinction rate of 30% is also a catastrophe.

    This reveals the depth of dishonesty to which deniers will go. They try and take a calamitous situation and put a positive spin on it. They are indeed a wretched lot.

  20. #21 Olaus Petri
    July 23, 2014

    Dear Jeffie, my instinct tells me that the Arctic sea will not be exstinct anytime soon. 😉

  21. #22 Craig Thomas
    July 23, 2014

    What is Olaus twittering on about?
    How does a sea “be exstinct”?
    Did Olaus not even complete *primary* school?

  22. #23 Lionel A
    July 23, 2014

    Did Olaus not even complete *primary* school?

    I think Oily Prat has a distinction in Red, it being a primary colour. That is about as far as his primary education went.

    Now for a real education in some pertinent areas Oily Prat could do worse that to find a copy of the excellent, if now a little dated being of 2001 Cassell’s Atlas of Evolution: The Earth, its Landscape, and Life Forms where he will discover another Mass Extinction event indicated at the end of the holocene timeline.

    Now if OP cannot figure out when that was then this Geological Time Spiral (which I based on that found in the cited volume and to which I added a tree of mine own construction) will assist with his orientation.

    That is still a worthwhile book BTW and it is a great shame that most of US Congress and Aussie parliament are ignorant about its subject matter.

    There is now no excuse for naysaying that a mass extinction is underway, which is why atmospheric chemist Paul Crutzen originated the term for a new geological period The Anthropocene.

  23. #24 Jeff Harvey
    July 24, 2014

    Olaus exhibits classic symptoms of the Dunning-Kruger effect. No explanation needed. His quips are moronic and his grasp of English is appalling. He also does not consult the primary literature – instead, he relies on second and third party sources like WUWT and other climate change denying blogs for his scientific information. He then constantly pastes it here, as if it is the definitive source.

  24. #25 Sou
    July 24, 2014

    My comments are still stuck in moderation. Is there any chance of adding me to the whitelist please?

  25. #26 Nick
    July 24, 2014

    Ten months after the lies a correction is finally wrung out of the wretched News Ltd

  26. #27 Lionel A
    July 24, 2014

    Nick #18

    The sickening thing is that who amongst those who read the original articles and letters in that bogpaper will bother scanning that response, let alone digesting its message.

    Once again it is mission accomplished and they will not be stopped until there are severe consequences threatened, substantial fines, ban on circulation of more papers until a prominent apology is promised and if that fails custodial sentences for those who push the lies in the first place.

    Meanwhile, two decades where affirmative action in mitigation have been lost. This means that whatever the punches the boxer throws in the near future are going to be needlessly heavier than those seen thus far. Now that is criminal.

  27. #28 Nick
    July 24, 2014

    Lionel #19, last year Murdoch campaigned hard against the ALP’s suggestion of modest improvements to a timely right of reply and redress over innaccurate and misleading articles. He won, just as he had forty years ago when the Whitlam government invited news organisations to discuss an accountability framework. He just trumpets alarmist rubbish about removal of free speech, unaccountable bureaucrats and censorship, and political parties go to water.

    This correction was placed on page 8 of the paper, and reproduced in full length, obviously in the confidence that few readers would wade through it….and it took ten months to deliver what people here figured out and cross checked inside 48 hours.

    And there are a mere eighty or so further articles on climate matters in need of the same printed correction. Mission accomplished indeed.

  28. #29 Lionel A
    July 24, 2014

    Murdoch is a ‘roach, one who recently declared “…climate change should be approached with great skepticism. “

    There are some reality challenged ideologues popping up in the comments there.

  29. #30 Lionel A
    July 24, 2014

    Sou at HotWhopper has linked to this article on the Heartland Circus get together Crashed a Climate Change Denial Conference in Las Vegas

    Sad, sad, sad Delingpole, Soon and Monckton

    One thinks he is a gifted writer, another thinks he is an important scientist and another a member of the House of Lords. Which one is which I am not sure, I doubt any of them are any the wiser.

    Bast is just another ‘roach.

  30. #31 Craig Thomas
    July 25, 2014

    The Australian should have been forced to print articles of the same length and prominence under banners such as WE GOT IT WRONG ON THE IPCC.

    Furthermore, the obvious intent of that paper in peddling lies and nonsense on this topic should be punishable in criminal law.

  31. #32 Sou at HotWhopper
    July 25, 2014

    Has anyone has heard from Bernard J lately? He hasn’t been at HW for a while, nor here.

    BTW I’m having trouble commenting here. My comments are getting stuck in moderation so I’m trying with different credentials. From the sharp reduction in the number of comments I’m guessing a lot of people are in the same boat.

  32. #33 BBD
    July 25, 2014

    Furthermore, the obvious intent of that paper in peddling lies and nonsense on this topic should be punishable in criminal law.

    Agreed, Craig. It’s an astonishingly serious matter. There should be concomitantly severe penalties.

  33. #34 cRR Kampen
    July 28, 2014

    And Abbott’s mass child murderers in the Levant are at it again too. Waiting for Isis.

  34. #35 cRR Kampen
    July 28, 2014

    Country wide Dutch record 24h precip was 208mm, Voorschoten 2-3 August 1948; awaiting validation of today’s 216mm, Maarssen/Utrecht.

  35. #36 Lionel A
    July 28, 2014


    Probably connected to what is happening this side of the water, ‘The Sleeve’ as the French have it.

    Torrential rain and flash flooding cause travel chaos.

    I happened to find that just in time and had a hunch some of it would come my way. I am baby-sitting a pair of Guinea-pigs for grandchildren whilst they are away further West, South Devon, on a caravan holiday with my wife. I moved out to slide their run up to the already prepared for the night hutch just in time to get the covers on before the first heavy rain. Was still tidying up as the heavens opened. Better go get this wet shirt off now.

    Judy sure has dug her hole deeper as seen at Sou’s.

  36. #37 GSW
    July 28, 2014

    Very quiet around here.

    “Global Warming” still languishing around the “bugger all” level for nearly two decades, the carbon tax has finally disappeared up its own fundament, and other, ill advised, eco energy policies reeking economic havoc (aka the so-called Green Energy Jobs Revolution in full swing 😉 ) whereever they remain.


    No wonder you lot are quiet.

  37. #38 Sou
    July 28, 2014

    Is anyone else not able to post comments here? All mine are getting stuck in moderation.

  38. #39 Sou
    July 28, 2014

    Well, that one worked. Fifth time lucky 🙂

    Has anyone heard from Bernard J lately? He doesn’t seem to have been around for a while. P’raps on holidays?

  39. #40 Jeff Harvey
    July 29, 2014

    GSW (Gormless) is speaking out of his you-know-what again. I say this as 2014 is projected to be the warmest year in recorded history over much of western Europe – every month this year has had well above average temperatures. This from a dope who claims that temperatures have flatlined over the past 2 decades.

  40. #41 cRR Kampen
    July 29, 2014

    No Dutch record, just another top ten 24h precip number (some 160mm).

    ” I say this as 2014 is projected to be the warmest year in recorded history over much of western Europe” – true, NL is scheming two tenths over the previous record year (waaaay back in 2006).

  41. #42 Lionel A
    July 29, 2014

    “Global Warming” still languishing around the “bugger all” level for nearly two decades, the carbon tax has finally disappeared up its own fundament…

    Oh! So you are standing in for this GormlessStupidWitless ijit.

    It is going quiet here not because of imaginary lack of continued warming but that across the world the usual suspects continue to throw up their previous courses which because mother nature is now seeking in a rather loud voice is making many wake up to where the truth lies.

    Those many dis-informers are peddling hard to prevent the lash back that will surely come because they know that their enablers, including paymasters, will throw them to the crowds when that dark brown smelly stuff hits the fan.

  42. #43 Lionel A
    July 29, 2014

    Oops. recomposed and forgot to alter one word,

    ‘…because mother nature is now speaking…’

  43. #44 cRR Kampen
    July 29, 2014

    #28 – a convoluted piece on the fact that energy should be abundant, clean and distributed at a tenth of current prices.

    “German wholesale next-year electricity prices have plunged 60 percent since 2008 as green power, which has priority access to the grid, cut into the running hours of gas, coal and nuclear plants.”

    Of course GSW abhors such a thin electricity bill.

  44. #45 cRR Kampen
    July 29, 2014

    #33, what remains are the chemtrailidiots. WUWT is kind of a museum. But they have been fatally succesful, as Mother Nature is the first to acknowledge.

  45. #46 turboblocke
    July 29, 2014

    A tip when reading about Germany: if they tell you that the consumer and small user rates are very high without telling you that major users rates are average, then they’re not being honest with you. In fact, thanks to renewables, wholesale rates in Germany are so low that the way the electricity market runs needs to be altered by allowing a significant element of capacity payments. This means that, primarily fossil fuel, generators will be paid to have plant ready to supply when necessary. It’s the only way to keep them profitable until they’re made redundant by renewables.

    I note that there is talk of a capacity market in the UK. This is perhaps related to some of the FF generators closing down capacity because they can’t compete with renewables, bringing with it the danger of blackouts. Some people might see this as blackmail, whereas others might see it as a legitimate tactic to keep prices artificially high for a sector that backed the wrong horse i.e. built FF capacity based on the gamble that FFs would always be cheaper than renewables.

  46. #47 bill
    July 30, 2014

    WUWT is kind of a museum

    It is indeed. And some of the exhibits are very badly stuffed.

    The GooseSezWhat?s and Oilys of this world are just what you get left with when reality has abraded away all but the most poisonously stupid…

  47. #48 bill
    July 30, 2014

    An amusing addition to the above. What can you say? How many years have these clowns been involved in this ‘debate’?

    The hard-core denialati are lucky they’re poster children for Dunning-Kruger, otherwise they’d just die of shame…

  48. #49 Lionel A
    July 30, 2014

    Nuclear weapons, should we be worried:

    Not if you live in Jim Inhofe’s country.

  49. #50 bill
    July 30, 2014

    That’s both very funny, and very, very disturbing…

  50. #51 egg pantzwettar
    July 30, 2014

    ‘The hard-core denialati are lucky they’re poster children for Dunning-Kruger, otherwise they’d just die of shame…’

    Speaking on behalf of the Denialati I find that comment offensive.

  51. #52 freddy
    July 31, 2014

    BBD is for once right. I agree. Thank you for your thoughtful comment.

  52. #53 Lionel A
    August 1, 2014

    Now if #40 didn’t worry you maybe this will:

    Ebola crisis: Virus spreading too fast, says WHO.

    This has been going since February! Hells teeth!

    And what have we seen since

    Football World Cup
    Commonwealth Games

    on top of all other travel mostly by air.

    And of course those determined to smuggle in foodstuffs will get it in somehow.

    But er. long with rising temperatures and climate refugee uptick……the scene is set.

  53. #54 Lionel A
    August 1, 2014

    So you deniers climate change is not happening, the world is not still warming, i.e. warming has paused:

    don’t tell the birds.

  54. #55 Lionel A
    August 1, 2014

    Ebola? And then there is this:

    What’s Behind The Rise In Deadly Flesh-Eating Bacteria In America’s Waterways.

    So you hope for more warming El Duffo, be careful what you wish for. We know the seas around the UK are warming, plant and animal life is telling us. Take a sub out for ‘The Wildlife Trusts’ and inform yourself if you are not convinced.

  55. #56 Craig Thomas
    August 4, 2014

    Graham Lloyd, despite having to issue an an apology for writing misleading crap about climate change, still keeps his job as a purveyor of anti-information at The Australian:

  56. #57 Lionel A
    August 4, 2014

    Yeah Craig, and don’t the deniers-delayers like playing at semantics.

    It is way past time that there were consequences for these purveyors of misdirection.

  57. #59 Jeff Harvey
    August 6, 2014

    Its ironic that I am attending a scientific congress and our illiterate twerp from Sweden pops up with more of his vacuous bilge. Importantly, climate change and its ecological effects are top of the bill here. Too bad that OP will not go “instinct” fast enough….

  58. #61 Lionel A
    August 6, 2014

    Climate change coupled with high levels of phosphate and nitrate run off into slow flowing limnic systems is a recipe for disaster as they are discovering in the US:

    7 Things You Need To Know About The Toxin That’s Poisoned Ohio’s Drinking Water

    there are a couple of other articles there which focus on the Ohio bloom also one highlighting that the problem is more widespread:

    5 Places Where The Bacteria That Just Contaminated Ohio’s Water Supply Might Strike Next,

    which reminds me of the chapter ‘Lagoons of pig feces’ in Al Franken’s ‘Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them’.

    And if this is not enough there are plenty more disasters like this one waiting in the wings:

    Canadians Can’t Drink Their Water After 1.3 Billion Gallons Of Mining Waste Flows Into Rivers.

    Then there is the criminal waste of water taken up by fracking which is already increasing water stress in states such as California and those adjacent.

    When will the fracking insane realise that you cannot drink money or eat gold?

    I discovered something interesting about human cognitive development and the influence of organisms such as some bacteria that produce human traits such as risk taking behaviour and psychological make-up.

    I doubt that the Usual suspects here appreciate that each of us is a walking carrier for countless small organisms such as bacteria, fungii and small invertebrates. Search on ‘skin microbiome’ and ‘skin flora’ to begin getting an idea.

    We upset these at our peril, but have to watch out for bacteriophages. Individuals of differing indigenous populations have a different collection of organisms on and in their bodies. Climate change by forcing migration, altering weather patterns – temperature and precipitation is sure going to make life interesting as humans try to negotiate a path through the coming decades.

    Some of the protective organisms are ‘bequeathed’ by the mother as the infant exits the birth canal and other protections are conferred by breast milk. Now I wonder what the stat’s are WRT various infections and other health disorders when comparing those born naturally with those who arrive in the world via Caesarian Section? Similarly for those suckled by breast and those fed substitutes. There is more to this than just vitamins.

    But of course all the usual suspects will blithely ignore this. Will this predilection for ignorance over study be down to nature or nurture considering the points raised above?

  59. #62 Lionel A
    August 6, 2014

    Expanding on Jef’s post #48 here are more consequences of the continued warming of planet Earth:

    A note on global warming, ocean acidification, and the future of medicine.

    The likely loss of natural chemicals that might have life-saving value in advancing the development of new medicines should be added to the list of consequences of global warming, ocean acidification, and loss of biodiversity.

  60. #63 cRR Kampen
    August 6, 2014

    There, now. Follow the money or get taught by confrontation:


    “One example of where Florida is hurting now is how property and construction have become too risky for insurers. According to the state-created storm risk management center, a growing number of insurance companies have exited the market entirely. Climate change and its related extreme weather both factored into that decision.”

  61. #64 Vince Whirlwind
    August 6, 2014

    Readfearn mocks the National Review’s further and better lies in Michael Mann’s case against it:

  62. #65 Lionel A
    August 6, 2014

    Yes Vince, you may like the article on this that appeared at the the Rabett’s place.

  63. #66 Lionel A
    August 7, 2014

    So, what are fair GHG reduction targets for the countries of the world, i.e. which countries should set themselves the most aggressive reductions?

    HT Rabett in ‘Chait gets it’

    ‘Cumulative Carbon and Just Allocation of the Global Carbon Commons’ R.T. Pierrehumbert (PDF).

    What about Australia, well David JC MacKay sourced some useful diagrams here Pages 11-14 albeit a bit dated.

  64. #67 Craig Thomas
    August 8, 2014

    I’d like to share with you a link to an analysis piece which is very important in its implications for renewables, for non-environmental reasons which are obvious to many of us, but are being ignored by many who should know better:

    A few key phrases:

    The chiefs of big gas middlemen … would sit down with their counterparts at Gazprom or Sonatrach… and work out long-term contracts linked to the price of oil.

    big industrial customers are insisting on prices determined by the actual trading of gas

    he European gas market is beginning to resemble that of the United States, where gas is priced according to what buyers and sellers will pay, not linked to much more expensive oil.

    Europe’s much-criticized renewables push is also influencing energy markets. In the first half of this year, 28.5 percent of German electric power came from renewable energy sources like wind and solar power — a nearly 4 percent increase over a year earlier. Britain is also surging ahead, with almost 15 percent of electricity coming from renewable sources, an increase of almost one-third.

    Although the growth of electricity generated by offshore wind farms and vast solar arrays is a nasty headache for fossil-fuel utilities, these unconventional power installations are reducing demand for gas and coal in Europe.

    Russia’s influence over European energy markets is weakening rather than growing stronger.

    Prices for future delivery of gas have dropped more than 30 percent over the past year on the British market

    The European Union, which has been under pressure from industries to ease back on costly new emission-cutting requirements, is taking note of this unexpected strategic gain from renewables, which comes as the Union is formulating energy policies for the next 15 years.

    On July 23, Günther Oettinger, the top European energy official, told reporters that a higher-than-expected energy savings target would be recommended for 2030 because of “the need for energy security in gas because of the situation in Russia and Ukraine,” according to Reuters.

    Whatever domestic energy supplies Europe can tap will strengthen its hand and serve as insurance. In that sense, renewables are important cards to hold.

    “The Ukraine crisis could act as a wake-up call for European decision makers to increase the use of renewable energy,” said Marcus Ferdinand, an analyst at Point Carbon, a research firm based in Oslo.

  65. #68 bill
    August 8, 2014

    Dear deniers, you are losing this debate. After all, they said it couldn’t be done – SA hits 43% renewable electricity for July. No disasters ensue. Go figure…

  66. #69 adelady
    city of wine and roses
    August 8, 2014


    I used to point out to people that the weather/wind changed here just as often as it did in Melbourne. It’s just more noticeable in Melbourne because they’re more likely to get rain with it than we are in Adelaide. Weell, they used to get more rain anyway.

    Why not use the wind when you’re sitting right at the edge of the Roaring Forties – or where there’s any other climatic or geographic feature that promotes wind?

  67. #70 Lionel A
    August 8, 2014

    Bill wrote:

    No disasters ensue.

    In stark contrast to this:

    British Columbia Declares A Local State Of Emergency After Massive Mine Waste Spill

    what for Rindheart Rinehart’s operations?

  68. #71 Craig Thomas
    September 1, 2014


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