January 2107 Open thread

Happy new year!


  1. #1 Lionel A
    January 30, 2017

    rivet popper versus the redundancy hypotheses

    Interesting analogy, but once popped the rivets will be functionally useless thus valueless, except as scrap and one would need thousands of rivets popped to make that worthwhile but the cost of paying somebody to do that hits the law of diminishing returns with a vengeance.

    Now if instead of rivets we consider removing bolts the case is changed. From my own personal experience I was familiar with the practice of removing a certain number of close tolerance bolts (Hi-Torque) from panels of selected F4 Phantom II (the Fleet Air Arm F4K aka FG1 model) aircraft so as to be able to secure the panels on an aircraft that could otherwise not fly for missing panels (this once clearance from higher authority was obtained). These aircraft were stressed skin, semi-monocoque construction (thus more like modern cars where the bodywork is the strength beam rather than the older type of chassis mounted body vehicles).

    This became necessary because with the aim of saving money the Ark Royal when first became operational with those aircraft was woefully under-provisioned with spare bolts. The bolts came in variety of sizes with different overall lengths because of a different plain shank requirement for internal structural reasons. In practice, the stresses of flight would tend to make these Hi-torque HTS close tolerance fasteners (countersunk heads) bind in the holes making removal for servicing difficult resulting in many head slots being burred out making drilling out and use of an Easy-out required. Ten percent on any one panel could often be damaged thus. One panel, on the upper surface of the outer wing had no fewer than 948 fasteners (a number seared into my brain) which had to be removed every 21 days for greasing a leading edge flap link. There was of course that panel’s twin on the other side of the aircraft. Multiply that by the number of aircraft on the squadron (12 – 14) and one gets an idea of the scale of the problem and there were quite a number of other panels requiring regular removal.

    The strategy of removing bolts to fit to another aircraft quickly hits that law of diminishing returns. Plus it takes manpower away from all the other servicing tasks require especially a large number of special events because of the newness of the aircraft (the Spey engined UK model was quite a different beast to those the Americans were operating) and the hostile environment at sea.

    Some panels along the side of the fuselage if removed required a jack under the nose and another with a special trestle fitting under the keel to prevent the aircraft distorting. I once took over (working watches) on a Phantom which had these panels removed and the supports had not been put in place. I had considerable trouble using jacks and trestles to get it back into shape so as to refit those panels. An annotation was made in the aircraft’s documentation to ensure that the flight servicing crews could keep an eye out for subsequent problems developing.

    There was one panel on the top of the fuselage behind the rear canopy, secured by Millson fasteners, which was required to be secured before the aircraft could be moved on the ground. Early years at sea operating these Phantoms was tense for those involved.

    All this on a system designed by man, unlike natural systems which humans are scrambling to understand, and these aircraft, as all types do, did have a tendency to crash. Aircraft design and construction is a compromise between enough material with inbuilt system redundancy and the need to make it capable of leaving the ground and doing something useful.

    The rivet popping is interesting if one has researched the latest scientifically backed thinking about why the Titanic sank. Yes it hit an ice berg but was it the brittle steel plates which cracked or riveted seems which ‘unzipped’, it turns out to be most likely that latter.

    One it comes to the damage caused by commercially driven tree felling (for product or clearance to grow something else typically soy or oil palm) the destruction caused is mostly unnoticed by the consumer, ignorant of the interactive processes and diversity of species which are a part of that.

    It would do our trolls good to actually try to learn more instead of coming back spitting blood without allowing time to investigate sources cited. I note my suggestion of reading ‘The Secret Life of Trees: How They Live and Why They Matter’ by Colin Tudge (published in the US as ‘The Tree ….’) was ignored.

    The etymology of ignored and ignorant being linked – of course.

  2. #2 Betula
    January 30, 2017

    That’s a lot of rambling Lionel…

    Anyway, I found a picture of an interesting insect, I know what it is, but can you tell me what it is?


  3. #3 Stu 2
    January 30, 2017

    Solutions to actual identified isuues are usually ‘after the fact’.
    If the ‘horse has bolted’ already then it’s not possible to keep the horse in the barn.
    Your comment @#98 completely ignores what the discussion was about.
    Even your analogy is missing the point.
    Those metaphorical doctors are in many cases returning those small components.
    No one, including Betula, has claimed that we don’t change anything at all.
    Humans are not conducting a non repeatable experiment.
    Humans are just being humans along with all their imperfections.
    Mitigation is actually a feature of the principle of ‘adaptive management’.
    Nowhere in human history has your pet theory of overthrowing entire systems ever resulted in good outcomes for ‘the environment’.
    That’s proven to be ‘maladaptive’.
    A single ‘panacea’ couldn’t possibly work in such a complex system.
    There is no such thing as a ‘silver bullet’ that will solve all the ills in the world.
    Riding around on your self appointed ‘high horse’ waving a ‘big stick’ is not delivering anything worthwhile.
    While your ‘scientific community’ is trying that, there are actually other communities of people, including highly qualified scientists who are working in the real world with real people actually ‘doing something about it’.
    One of those myriad of ‘somethings’ is tackling the identified issue of overcleared landscapes.
    But that’s only one.

  4. #5 Betula
    February 2, 2017

    Well, Andy chased Bernard away, then Andy had to leave after being exposed, now it looks like Lionel Smith is gone….that leaves Hardley, who has proven to be no more than a liar, hypocrite, exaggerator and narcissist.

    With that said, I think we can we finally put this site to rest.

    R.I.P Deltoid, it was fun laughing at you.

  5. #6 Jeff Harvey
    February 2, 2017

    “…that leaves Hardley, who has proven to be no more than a liar, hypocrite, exaggerator and narcissist.”

    Coming from a piece of worthless shit like you Betula, that’s a compliment. You combine profound ignorance and arrogance. You have essentially zero knowledge of science, yet you truly believe that you are enlightened. If the average denier is as vacuous as you are, then no wonder humanity is seriously fucked.

    Lionel, Bernard, Wow and others are sick to death of your asinine stupidity, that’s why they no longer respond to you. You live in your own echo chamber. Fuck off and go away.

  6. #7 Jeff Harvey
    February 2, 2017


    Read my advice for Betula and take it to heart. You’re almost as ignorant as he is. When you write, “Humans are not conducting a non repeatable experiment” you are speaking out of your butt. Humans are experimenting alright, but the global experiment has no controls and most people are unaware of it. The combined human assault that is reducing biodiversity at a staggering rate and altering the functioning of complex systems is very clearly an experiment that is likely to have profoundly serious outcomes. The scientific community warned of the perils of simplifying nature as far back as the 1980s, and the warning has largely been ignored. In 1992 70% of the Living Nobel Laureates signed a document arguing that humans and the natural world are on a collision course. By now it can be argued that humans are essentially at war with natural systems. Its a war we cannot win because we do not have the technology to replicate a range of vital conditions emerging from natural systems that sustain us. Your ‘adaptive management’ post was utter bullshit. We cannot adaptively manage systems whose functioning we barely understand. You seem to be suggesting that we stay the course, don’t make significant changes in ongoing policies and deal with the symptoms once they become apparent. How uttely stupid. No wonder Wow referred to you under that monicker. I am saying that its vital that we deal with the disease, which is the very scale of the human enterprise and revert to renerwables as soon as possible. We are nowhere close to being sustainable, and yet through some hubris think that we can fix any of the assaults we are inflicting across the biopshere with technology and your patently absurd ‘adaptive management’ approach. What a load of garbage. I am sick of your willful ignorance as much as I am sick of Betula’s vacuous musings. You both belong together. I have science to do, ppaers to write, lectures to give and students to supervise. I am not going to waste any more of my valuable time on your two losers. Get lost.


  7. #8 Lionel A
    February 2, 2017

    …now it looks like Lionel Smith is gone…

    You wish Birch sap.

    BTW ‘sap’ has a special apposite meaning in our idiom.

  8. #9 Lionel A
    February 2, 2017

    Ah! Yes. Russell, Delingpole and the Myron Feldw-ebell who is trying to USHER in a new dark age of alt-science, with the assistance of Betsy DeVos we hope not..

  9. #10 Betula
    February 2, 2017

    Actually Lionel, I’m glad you’re not gone.

    You’re one of the few who, so far, haven’t proven to be a hypocrite or a liar. And I respect your service to your country…

    “sap” could also serve as a “sapper”…which I was.

  10. #11 Stu 2
    February 2, 2017

    You are continuing to miss the point and clinging to a failing meme.
    To argue that I’m suggesting ‘we stay the course’ is ridiculous.
    It’s also ridiculous to argue that humans are essentially at war with natural systems.
    Homo-sapiens are part of the global environment and along with every other successful species they influence the immediate environment.
    The ‘hubris’ is emanating from you loud & clear.
    Ironically it’s you that advances an argument that is roadblocking any genuine, practical work that is being done.
    This link is showing a very small sample.
    All of it is because of successful ‘adaptive management’ according to the definition from academic literature.
    It’s far from rubbish.
    It’s actually people learning together how to repair past mistakes.
    That ‘high horse’ you’re riding around on has been flogged to death.
    It’s not working.
    In fact, whole nations, via the ballot box, are no longer interested because it’s clearly not working.
    It’s the height of stupidity and insanity to continue to do the same thing over and over and over again and expect a different result.

  11. #12 Stu 2
    February 2, 2017

    This is the type of argument that you’re interested in having Jeff.
    I’m not.
    ‘Natural Systems’ also aren’t interested in irrational, emotional, media driven, socio-economic politics.

  12. #13 Stu 2
    February 2, 2017

    And before you compose yet another hubris laden lecture to me on topics that you ironically don’t possess qualifications please remember that I have said I’m not interested.
    I’m not interested because out in the real world amongst real people it’s clear that the whole idea that the world can only be saved by some type of benevolent global dictatorship that administers the great global experiment via ‘environmental economics’ is proving to be ‘maladaptive’ ie a failed human experiment.
    It’s not working.
    It’s time to focus on what does work and build on those strategies.
    I simply don’t care whether successful management strategies come from the right, left, sideways, upside down or inside out.
    I don’t belong to a political football team.

  13. #14 Betula
    February 3, 2017

    Stu to Hardley – “To argue that I’m suggesting “we stay the course” is ridiculous”

    Of course it is, because you never said it… but that doesn’t make any difference to the genious professor, because it’s what he believes he hears…. after all, he’s a scientist.

    You should know by now that Hardley hears and sees a lot of things that aren’t there, and then he talks about his qualifications to convince himself that they are…

  14. #15 Betula
    February 3, 2017

    And yes, I know it’s “genius”, genius…

  15. #16 Jeff Harvey
    February 3, 2017

    Stu, get lost with your childish axioms like ‘adaptive management’. What a load of cock and bull. You seem to think that humans can patch up the biosphere as we are taking it apart at the seams. Your band-aid approach won’t be worth a damn in the face of collapsing ecosystems, fraying food webs and obliterated ecological services. That you cannot understand the notion of humans conducting an unwitting experiment on nature reflects your isidious stupidity.

    I’d love a list of the scientists you claim are luminaries who see the world through the same myopic filter as you. I have yet to meet any of them and I go to many conferences where colleagues are well aware of the scale of the predicament. They’d not know whether to laugh or cry at someone who claims that its OK to stay the course because we can ‘adaptively manage’ the vast assaults our species is inflicting across the biosphere. Again, utter drivel.

    You talk about benevolent global dictatorships at a time when the planet is in the grip of a neoliberal, corporate dictatorship. Read what climate scientist David Cromwell at Medialens says about the predicament. Its dire:


    Indian write Amitov Ghosh rightfully calls the current situation in a corporate-climate changing world as ”The Great Derangement”. By derganged he means that humanity must be out of its collective mind to be intent on heading down a path of climate chaos and environmental destruction in full knowledge of the ramifications. Clearly Ghosh, like many of my scientific colleagues, is unaware of your ‘adaptive management’ approach to this madness.

    I have better things to do than to continue engaging in discourse morons on issues beyond their competence. Good luck with your efforts to ‘manage’ complex adaptive systems in the face of a massive human assault.

  16. #17 Betula
    February 3, 2017

    Hardley – “someone who claims that its OK to stay the course”

    There it is…”stay the course”….Stu never said any such thing, but there it is!

    Well done Hardley, seeing things that don’t exist…. that scientific mind of yours is shining brightly.

    Just think, if Hardely consistently believes he saw something in writing that was never written, and draws a conclusion from it (because he wants it to be true)….imagine what he believes he is seeing in his research (and drawing conclusions on) because he wants it to be true…

    Just remember…he’s a scientist.

  17. #18 Betula
    February 3, 2017

    Does anyone see a pattern here?

    Looks like Hardley is having a hard time controlling himself…..next thing you know, he will believe he said something he didn’t say and start calling himself a moron..

    Hardley – “I have better things to do than to continue engaging in discourse”

    Hardley – ” I am not going to waste any more of my valuable time.”

    Hardley – “Why I bother with his sandbox level discourse with you idiots is a mystery.”

    Hardley – “why I waste my time on ignorant people”

    Hardley – “The reason I don’t really want to engage much with you is because”

    Hardley – “wonder why I degrade myself and waste my time responding”

  18. #19 Stu 2
    February 3, 2017

    Just Google ‘adaptive management’.
    How interesting that you’re now pretending that environmental science has nothing at all to with the concept.
    Perhaps you don’t meet any of them at conferences because they’re actually out in the real world, working with real people and actually ‘doing something about it’.
    Or maybe they go to different conferences?
    Who knows why you are now trying to argue that these highly qualified people don’t exist?
    Revegetating landscapes that have been overcleared is just one example of what they do.
    And I pointed out that your ‘pet theory’ of some type of benevolent global dictatorship based on a great global experiment using ‘environmental economics’ is NOT WORKING.
    So your comment regarding that is strange to say the very least.
    Whole nations, via the ballot box, are opting out.
    It’s got nothing to do with ‘neo liberalism’ or ‘a great derangement’.
    Neither has it got anything to do with people’s ability to care about matters environmental.
    It’s ‘maladaptive’ for humanity and the environment.
    It’s way past time to stop flogging that dead high horse that you’re riding on with your big stick.
    You’re also metaphorically flogging people, some of them highly qualified scientists, who care deeply about ‘the environment’.
    It’s time to focus on what does work and build on those management strategies always keeping in mind that systems are indeed ‘adaptive’ including human systems.

  19. #20 Stu 2
    February 3, 2017

    Speaking of ‘childish axioms’.
    I would suggest that terms such as ‘great derangement’, ‘conducting a non repeatable experiment’ comparisons with life support machines, ‘ in the grip of neoliberal corporate dictatorship’ & etc are about as childishly axiomatic as it gets.
    ‘Adaptive management’ however is an academic term used by environmental scientists to explain the concept of humans learning together as they work together in the environment.
    It’s the sort axiom that adults use.

  20. #21 Betula
    February 4, 2017

    Hardley, this from your link @16 – “we are now faced with severe, human-induced climate instability and catastrophic loss of species”

    Did he say “catastophic” Hardley? Strange, because we all know that “invoking the term ‘catastrophe’ is a feeble attempt to push the debate to extremes.” Your words Hardley, not mine….

    Now, go ahead and argue with yourself over what you said…

  21. #22 Trent1492
    United States
    February 4, 2017

    Just to alert you, folks. Paul Offit of all people has written an anti-Rachel Carson editorial on the Daily Beast. Apparently, it is part a promotion of an upcoming book he is releasing in April.

  22. #23 Stu 2
    February 5, 2017

    This one?
    The headline certainly sounds ‘anti -Rachel Carson’ but the content is not.

  23. #24 Olaus Petri
    February 5, 2017

    I’m not convinced yet, but given the poor method used in Karl’s paper in the combination with the first hand witness from Dr. Bates, it seems more meaty than Jeff’s “first hand spider”.


  24. #25 Betula
    February 5, 2017

    Yes Olaus, Hardley had his thumb on the spider and Karl had his “thumb on the scale”…

    Remember, they are the scientists, so we aren’t capable of noticing or commenting on such complicated scientific techniques…

  25. #26 Stu 2
    February 5, 2017

    As well as seeing and arguing with what isn’t there Jeff doesn’t see what is there.
    I’m still stunned by his post @#16 where he’s attempting to argue that ‘adaptive management’ isn’t recognised by ‘science’.

  26. #27 Li D
    February 6, 2017

    Whats that word in the title here Betula?
    Starts with an S.
    And it dont stand for shithead.
    Which means shitheadedness is off topic.
    All i see is one big long bit of trolling from
    This is the anonomous internet.
    You can choose to be anything you want.
    Any character. Any personality.
    And you choose to be shithead.
    My suggestion to you is, start talking science
    or fuck off. Pronto.
    I fucking hate trolling bastards who get their
    jollies from interupting and manipulating dialog.
    I dont read Deltoid on Scienceblogs for your
    shit. Savvy?

  27. #28 Li D
    February 6, 2017

    Catastrophic is absolutly the applicable term.
    Anyone who disagrees is unfamiliar with
    the process in play.

  28. #29 Betula
    February 6, 2017

    Li D – “Catastrophic is absolutly the applicable term”

    Strange Li D, when I used the word “catastrophic”, and here was Hardley’s reply…

    Hardley the scientist – “invoking the term ‘catastrophe’ is a feeble attempt to push the debate to extremes.”

    So this is where you tell Hardley, he ” Is unfamiliar with
    the process in play”.,,,correct?

    Tell you what. When the Deltoidians stop being liars and hypocrites, I’ll stop pointing it out….

    Let’s see if you can handle it.

  29. #30 Lionel A
    February 7, 2017

    Olas Putrid @ #24links to the madness that is queen Curry not knowing that Bates has form or that his arguments are fatuous.

    One could linbk to a number of debunkings but this is good one as within is not only the truth about (dear) John Bates but also valuable links to ‘…and then There’s Physics’ and ‘The Great White Con’ of Jim Hunt.

    Follow links at that latter to become aware of the official complaints levelled at such as the Mail (Daily, On Sunday or On Line) and Telegraph to appreciate what a lying, devious bunch they are.

    We keep thinking that J Curry has hit bottom but she keeps proving such assumptions wrong and that is all she is able to prove.

  30. #31 Lionel A
    February 8, 2017

    Interesting comments thread beneath this excellent Carbon Brief article: Factcheck: Mail on Sunday’s ‘astonishing evidence’ about global temperature rise

    wherein one Bart_R answers the stupid “Earth is doing what it as always done change.” I had presented to me earlier today.

    “Your honor, people have always died. Therefore you cannot find my client guilty of murder, despite tens of thousands of witnesses and articles of physical evidence direct and circumstantial, including the smoking gun.

    Over long enough timescales, the Faint Young Sun Paradox skews temperatures. Removing the very small (but over a huge time period) influence of the change in overall solar output still leaves some significant differences in global temperature correlated to CO2 level, but explains most of the delta.

    Continents drift over very long time periods. Removing that influence still leaves a few significant differences in the global-temperature-CO2 correlation, over very long time periods, but not very much.

    Episodes of intense volcanism, giant meteor strikes, and the like when removed from the record leave a clearer picture of correlation of CO2 and global temperature.

    Milankovitch Cycles due orbital changes pretty much explain the bulk of the remaining differences seen in ice cores.

    It’s CO2 that most exactly fits all observations given least assumptions, exceptions or omissions.

    As for the proof? Google Scholar shows tens of thousands of hits on search terms like “CO2 Climate” every year more and more. There’s a mountain of proof far in excess of the evidence for gravity waves, the Higgs Boson, extrasolar planets, and black holes combined. Argumentum ad Ignoratio does not cut it.

    Nor can we call any outcome an ‘advantage’ when it is inflicted against the will of the recipients, any more than can you ‘advantage’ a stranger from behind against their will. That’s just assault.

    Minimizing the cost of losing whole cities to make excuses for needless fossil waste dumping?

    That’s a demented level of indifference amounting to criminal negligence.”

    There are many other telling comments about the state of the planet and the science that informs on why it is happening. Well worth scanning through. Most of the ‘moles’ raised by our resident trolls here are soundly whacked again.

    But this one I picked out as having special significance on the co-ordinated campaign from both sides of the pond to roll back any environmental legislation that may hamper the profit gathering of the fossil fool industry.

    Ceist Celt Bart_R • a day ago

    Is it a coincidence that Judith Curry appears to be the only ‘scientist’ that the House Committee on Science and Lamar Smith follow on the @HouseScience Twitter account?


    Or that @HouseScience tweeted links to the David Rose piece 6 times? First tweet on Feb 4?

    Or that the House Committee on Science has a full Hearing scheduled for Feb 7 called “Making the EPA Great Again”?


  31. #32 Li D
    February 8, 2017

    In a microwave oven, do water
    molecules re emit the microwaves?

  32. #33 Jeff Harvey
    February 9, 2017

    I stay away from the denying trolls on here for a few days and what do I see when I get back? Swedish meatless ball linking to the blog of a washed up has-been (Judith Curry). Her research dried up several years ago, so in a desperate attempt to stay in the limelight she cozies up to a vile pile of liars.

    She is dismissed. Irrelevant. Obsolete.

  33. #34 Betula
    February 10, 2017

    Hardley – “She is dismissed. Irrelevant. Obsolete”

    When Hardley can’t counter, he slips into the Monty Python Parrot skit….

    A true sign of a brilliant scientist.

  34. #35 Lionel A
    February 10, 2017

    What Old-Putrid missed:

    Wikipedia bans Daily Mail as ‘unreliable’ source

    Now for Putrid’s edification:


  35. #36 Stu 2
    February 13, 2017

    I’m surprised Jeff hasn’t returned with a dissertation that argues, with nothing other than conjecture and personal opinion, that John Cleese would’ve changed his mind.

  36. #37 kim
    February 13, 2017

    Default, shorter Hardley!!

    Against your over self-complacent ego-selfish misrepresentation of an ill-mannered wannabe pseudoscentist without basic education in meteorology and atmospheric physics stands as a landmark Prof. Judith Curry, who is famous, well known for her exuberant expertise in atmospheric science and totally respected and heard by American Congress. And YOU, Hardley? Who are YOU, Hardley?? YOU are a completely unknown, totally irrelevant village idiot who spies his toxic vile in endles fits of partizan green-soci fundamentalim onto decent scientists.

    You Hardley as well as clown Lionel F, who is a poor airplane wing service screw driver, but mischieves himself as an incompetent naked climate layman, are both troubled brats from spoiled families. Listen you two idiots: your personal contribution to progress, growth, wisdom of modern society is ridiculously negative and self-damaging: you are a decadent shame for mankind.

  37. #38 Jeff Harvey
    February 15, 2017

    Funny how Kim claims I am unknown when my scientific papers have outcited Curry’s in recent years… my h factor (41) is only one behind Curry’s despite the fact that she had a 12 year head start on my career… and so on and so forth. And as a former Associate Editor at Nature, I am far from unknown. So you asinine morons can keep throwing insults in your desperate efforts to dismiss me. Curry is your pin up girl because she’s thrown in her lot with liars and shills as her career fades, in a last ditch effort to retain relevance. As for testifying before Congress, so have Monckton and Steyn, two of the biggest buffoons out there, so this is hardly a ringing endoresement.

    The scientific debate is over. I am not the outiier anyway. Curry is. That’s why you idiots defend her.

  38. #39 Betula
    February 15, 2017

    Poor Hardley, wanting so much to believe he’s relevant and nobody seems to care…

    Look at the bright side Hardley, you will always have your hyperparasitoid minions to cheer you on…

  39. #40 Lionel A
    February 15, 2017

    Lionel F, who is a poor airplane wing service screw driver,…

    WhoTF is Lionel F?

    Whatever, kim demonstrates that he is as ignorant of matters aviation (with as silly a thought as Birchers spider – that is another sad git) as he is of everything else. Probably failed grade school, no more like a kindergarten fail.

  40. #41 Lionel A
    February 15, 2017

    Message for kim, just when we all thought Curry couldn’t debase herself further she joins up with a Bates to feed the ego of David Rose. How kim missed all this is amazing given the exposure here and at many other places.

  41. #42 Jeff Harvey
    February 15, 2017

    Look at it this way Betula – I am a million times more relevant than you and Kim, which I know isn’t that hard. You two idiots are completely anonymous nobodies. And after co-reviewing Lomborg’s book for Nature I became well known in many circles, which is a helluva lot more than can be said for you, a tree pruner. Kim won’teven tell us what he does for a living, which is illuminating.

    Lionel shows how relevant Curry is, as she continues her journey to oblivion. The fact that the dwindling population of deniers relies on her and a few other aging washed up scientists is further proof of their desperation. Indeed, were I to meet Curry I would ask her if she is proud to be supported by an army of idiotic fools like Kim, Betula and Olaus. I would tell her that her fanclub essentially consists of right wing illiterates. But I am sure that she knows this but feels that any adoration is better than none. How pathetic.

  42. #43 Jeff Harvey
    February 15, 2017

    I am at a scientific conference right now, so I don’t intend to waste much more energy on the illiterati here. But just for the record: last week Greenland broke its al time February temperature record by 4 C. New York City and Washington
    DC broke temperature records in February. Much of the Arctic experienced its third winter ‘heat wave’ this season, with temperatures as much as 30 C above normal. Ice extent at both poles is at record lows with the Arctic situation an evolving disaster. Australia experienced an unprecedented heat wave with temperatures exceeding 40 C over much of the country and Sydney recording its warmest ever day.

    Against the empirical evidence the deniers persist. The scientific community by and large is on one side and the illiterati is on the other. The few morons who write in here desperately try – and of course fail – to give the impression that my views are extreme and outside of the consensus. But of course my views are a part of the consensus. My big mistake is in giving attention to the Kim’s and Betula’s et al. who are desperate for it. Its a fair point.

  43. #44 Betula
    February 16, 2017

    Well, since Hardley insists on bringing up the weather, it can’t hurt to tell you the skiing here on the east coast has been outstanding, though I did find a spider in my house……killed it.

  44. #45 kim
    February 16, 2017

    Look at this idiot “Harvey”: But just for the record: last week Greenland broke its al time February temperature record by 4 C. New York City and Washington
    DC broke temperature records in February. Much of the Arctic experienced its third winter ‘heat wave’ this season, with temperatures as much as 30 C above normal. Ice extent at both poles is at record lows with the Arctic situation an evolving disaster. Australia experienced an unprecedented heat wave with temperatures exceeding 40 C over much of the country and Sydney recording its warmest ever day.

    Against the empirical evidence the deniers persist.

    HE IS 100% illiterate even in postmodern pseudo-“climatology” . If Hardley knew anything he would know that he hallucinates about weather, but as he is a total fool, full of green-ecosoci vile he cannot better.

    Listen Hardley, as you only dispose of utter pimitive copy “knowledge” of your ideology-driven eco fundamentlists in politicized pseudo-science (the guys don’t even know how to setup a decent experimental design in order to study something primitive as temperatures): the whole level of these crap “scientists” is such abimonably catastrophic hilarious that more intelligentic people get only constant nausea.

    Your insect conference has a scientific value and relevance to the AGW speculation of exactly ZERO, but you will not understand because your insane mental state does not allow this, idiot

  45. #46 Lionel A
    February 16, 2017

    kim has to be a Poe unless there are people stupid enough to evacuate #45 with self belief in which case trees and fungi are massively more intelligent.

  46. #47 Stu 2
    February 16, 2017

    The weather/ climate is not an althetic or swimming event at the Olympic Games and it shouldn’t be reported that way. It’s unrealistic.
    At the same time as we were experiencing a summer heat wave of plus 40 temps in parts of Australia, there were other places on the globe experiencing minus 40 temps.
    Neither are ‘unprecedented’.
    I was away at a ‘conference’ too. Where I live it was 47 one day, where I was (still in AUS) it was a pleasant 31.
    The birds and the trees and the insects and the fungi were all fine with it in both places.
    They don’t read the weather reports.
    They aren’t even slightly interested in conforming to ‘averages’ or ‘breaking records’ or following ‘trends’.
    In some ways Lionel, they are smarter than us.
    They don’t lose their cool in the heat.
    They’re not trying to ‘tease out’ a trend in the weather records.
    They couldn’t give two hoots about ‘computer modeling’ or human politics or economics.
    They don’t have mortgages.

  47. #48 Stu 2
    February 16, 2017

    In other words.
    The ‘unprecedented’ obsession with the weather is not ‘doing something about’ or benefiting ‘the environment’.
    Who or what ends up being the beneficiaries of this ‘unprecedented’ obsession?????
    What are they genuinely ‘doing something about it’????

  48. #49 Lionel A
    February 16, 2017

    So Stu, playing the plonker again. Weather events are way past requiring trends to be teased out.

    How nice for you that weather is as it should be for you. Take a trip to Spain or other places in Europe, just by way of example, and ask around there. Warning you may have to dodge the punches and brickbats from farmers pushed to the limit. You tosser!

  49. #50 Stu 2
    February 16, 2017

    I have been there & I have talked to the farmers Lionel.
    They’re being pushed to the limit by endless bureaucratic and political red tape/green tape/flouro tape.
    They’re good honest people who have had a gutful of the ‘unprecedented obsession’ with the weather/climate.

  50. #51 Stu 2
    February 16, 2017

    I actually think you may benefit from getting out and about some more Lionel.
    Go talk to some real farmers and real regional/rural communities right across the globe.

  51. #52 Craig Thomas
    February 17, 2017

    Instead of asking stupid questions, Stu2, why not have a look at the time series that are presented here:
    Take especial note of “warm nights” and “cool nights”.

  52. #53 Craig Thomas
    February 17, 2017

    You could also have a look here, scroll to the bottom of the page:

    Over the last year, 170 new “hot” records have been set.
    Over the same period, 12 new “cold” records have been set.

    When 14 new hot records are being set for every new cold record, you should be able to figure out that something is up….

  53. #54 Craig Thomas
    February 17, 2017

    ….and instead of referring to imaginary farmers, Stu2, why not consider the fact that nobody is more aware of the reality of climate change than farmers are.


  54. #55 Stu 2
    February 17, 2017

    I am not saying that there are no changes or anything else along those lines.
    The point of contention is that ‘doing something about it’.
    I’m very sorry to see that this site has lost the plot in this regard.
    Unfortunately for most who do live and work outside of the urban areas, and that definitely includes farmers and their support communities, it’s quite clear that ‘environmentalism’ and the Greens have been hijacked by politics and no longer focus on the ‘real environment’.
    And ‘imaginary farmers’?

    This is the part that is played by the group you have linked to:

    “The policy shift also coincided with Farmers for Climate Action joining the NFF as an associate member where they are not permitted to vote at meetings but can sit at the table and be part of committees.”

    Take note that they are an associate member only and can’t vote.
    Take note of these comments as well:

    ““Everybody else seems very eager to say, ‘we’ve got a problem with climate change and the way that we’ll deal with it is to put a caveat on people in the country’,” he said.
    “But you can’t say that you’re going to fix the problem that you’re ventilating, with my private asset.
    “That is, you don’t fix climate change by taking away my vegetation rights because that means that you don’t want to do it with your money, you just want to do it with mine.
    “If you truly accept responsibility you need to show your acceptance by paying for it out of your own wallet, not somebody else’s.”
    ” The NFF recognises that climate change poses a significant challenge for Australian farmers.
    As a nation, we must act to ensure that our economy is well placed to cost efficiently reduce our national greenhouse gas emissions profile. 
    Australian agriculture has always operated in a varied and challenging climate.
    The continued success of the Australian agriculture sector will depend on our ability to build on this foundation, and continue to innovate and adapt to best manage future climatic risks and to reduce the emissions intensity of our production systems.
    There is great opportunity for Australian agriculture to contribute to our national emissions reduction goals.
    This opportunity requires innovation to reduce the emissions intensity and to enable farmers to efficiently participate in carbon markets. 
    It is critical that the suite of government policies that seek to address the challenge of climate change are fully examined, to ensure that the policy levers of government work cohesively to achieve our national objectives, while minimising the risk of unintended or perverse outcomes.”

    As I said upthread, farmers worldwide have been pushed to the limit by endless political and bureaucratic red/green/flouro tape.
    They’ve always been used to working with the seasons/weather/climate/environment/markets and etc & dealing with the associated risks.
    Instead of working with these people, “Environmentalist’ Politics and the Greens have successfully alienated them!
    No good IMHO.

  55. #56 Lionel A
    February 17, 2017

    I have been there & I have talked to the farmers Lionel.

    Been where? Why do I ask, because there is a disconnect between this:

    They’re being pushed to the limit by endless bureaucratic and political red tape/green tape/flouro tape.

    and the realities that have hit home in the recent past which has the same underlying causes as the danger to that Oroville Dam in Northern California.

    And I think you will benefit by studying more on what is happening around the globe and why. I don’t need to get out and about, even if I could, to see the big picture because I have taken the trouble to study the many faceted small pieces that make that picture up. So don’t you lecture me dumbass – the seasons ain’t what they used to be (fact) and nature is having trouble keeping up with the discontinuities that phenological disruptions cause where different but co-reliant species, geographically or otherwise separated, respond to very different environmental triggers for mutually important developmental events.

    That has little to do with red tape. Besides, like fishermen who complain about fish quotas, many do not understand that the limits placed on production by changing climates, and/or over-harvesting (monoculture and associated not in the long term best interest practices) are what they are coming up against and where some ‘red-tape’ is necessary to prevent the worst excesses of a culture where short term profit is king, where the message in the fable ‘The Goose that Laid the Golden Eggs’ has long been forgotten.

  56. #57 Stu 2
    February 17, 2017

    Sigh 🙁
    I have been ‘to Spain and other places around Europe’ and I have talked to Farmers.
    Contrary to your assertions they are fully aware of the ‘goose’.
    Of course some ‘red tape’ is necessary.
    What you apparently don’t understand is that the ‘red tape brigade’ see agriculture as their ‘goose’.
    People in rural and regional areas are getting sick of it and not appreciating the increasing risks it imposes on them.

  57. #58 Lionel A
    February 17, 2017


    Besides geese, you are missing the ‘black swans’.

    When you figured out the connection of those to what I am on about and climate change then get back – ’till then you have much research to conduct. You are missing the points.

  58. #59 Stu 2
    February 19, 2017

    No Lionel.
    I have not missed the point.
    I have spoken to Farmers in Spain and other places in Europe.
    There were no instances where I had to dodge punches or brickbats.

  59. #60 ianam
    February 19, 2017

    Nothing has changed here. Think of all you could have gotten done over the last year if you had stopped arguing with the trolls in this distant corner of the web where few go.

    I’ll check in against next year. Ta ta.

  60. #61 Jeff Harvey
    February 19, 2017

    Ianam has a very good point. I just returned from a Gordon Conference on Plant-Insect Interactions and climate change was a major theme. Strangely enough, in speaking with many of the 200 plus scientists in attendance, I could not find a single one who claimed that AGW was either overblown or not happening. Given the brainless morons who write in here (Betulq, Kim, Stu), one would think that my views were well outside the scientific mainstream and that contrarians were in the majority. Betula and Kim are written off, complete blowhard know nothings embedded in Dunning-Kruger infested ignorance, but Stu is even worse, because he tries to package his bullshit with an academic veneer.

    He writes, “At the same time as we were experiencing a summer heat wave of plus 40 temps in parts of Australia, there were other places on the globe experiencing minus 40 temps”.

    So what? The surface temperature over the planet as a whole is well above the historical average, with warm temperature records being broken at a much higher rate than cold temperature records. The cryosphere looks terrifying, with Arctic ice extent some 2 standard deviations below average for this time of the year; Canada recorded its warmest ever January and globally is was the 3rd warmest. February looks set to be even warmer still, with warm weather records tumbling across much of the northern hemisphere as well as across much of Australia rewcently. All Stu can wheedle out are arguments downplaying what is turning into a calamity by suggesting that our species can ‘adaptively manage’ fraying food webs, collapsing ecosystems and the current mass extinction event in ways that somehow protect our civilization from the loss of conditions that permit us to exist and to persist.

    Of course I know about thew term ‘adaptive management’ but most systems and population ecologists realize that humanity cannot adaptively manage complex systems that we barely understand as they unravel around us.

    Stu is as utterly stupid as his nickname suggests. he does not read any of the empirical literature and somehow tries to thrust the flaws of a rapaciously out of control capitalist system onto ‘greens’ who have absolutely no political power.

    I told colleagues at the conference about some of the views espoused by the trolls on here and their mouths were agape, aside from the laughter. The most funny thing that Betula, Kim, and Olaus try is to suggest that, because I am the only scientist who writes in here, that somehow my views on climate change are somehow ‘extreme’ and lie well outside of the scientific mainstream (whereas the opposite, of course, is true). Heck, Betula appears to think that the scientific support for AGW lies exclusively on this blog; if the blog shuts down, then that shows that AGW is false and that the deniers win.

    As I have said before, every reputable scientific conference in which AGW is discussed is attended by scientists who largely agree on the causes of GW and of the importance to mitigate GHC. I say ‘reputable’ because shindigs organized by the GWP{F and Heartland Foundation don’t count: those vile gatherings have pre-determined views and will never, ever, acknowledge the scientific truth. Moreover, as I have have said until I am tired of saying it, every National Academy in every nation on Earth, representing tens of thousands of scientists, acknowledges both the reality of AGW and the need to urgently address it. On top of that are the views of every major scientific organiztion e.g. the American Geophysicists union, The American Meteorological Society, NASA, NOAA, AAAS, etc, all of which share the views of the National Academies. And note how the trolls on here continually ignore these facts. Well, except Kim, who is so desperate to ignore the truth that he thinks it goes away by putting a solid line through it. He’s beyond pathetic.

    But ianam is correct. Hence why I will spend more time on other blogs like Hot Whopper, Stoat, Rabett Run, And then There’s Physics, etc., where Kim and Betula will be tarred, feathered and sent packing. I am sure that Tim (Lambert) must cringe when he sees that intellectual level of the morons who have taken over his blog.

  61. #62 Stu 2
    February 19, 2017

    You’re very busy worrying about and writing long comments about what you think other people think.
    It’s amusing to read.
    Just because you’re a ‘scientist’ who goes to ‘conferences,’ doesn’t mean anything other than you”re a scientist who goes to scientific conferences.
    As you say. ‘So what’?
    Your ‘views’ re global socio-economic politics are not ‘scientific’.

  62. #64 Bernard J.
    February 21, 2017

    Jeff, I wouldn’t be too concerned about what Tim thinks about Deltoid. I suspect that he uses it as both an archive and a fly trap for the Denialati.

    I also suspect that Tim has a far greater (positive) influence in other areas of the global climate change response than most appreciate, but that’s just my own surmising from snippets of evidence…

  63. #65 Betula
    February 21, 2017

    There goes Bernard….suspecting and surmising but never really knowing.

    Deltoid at it’s best.

  64. #66 Betula
    February 21, 2017

    Can anyone here imagine Hardley walking around a conference sharing his Deltoid ramblings with “fellow” scientists.

    They must see him coming a mile away and run in the other direction…

  65. #67 kim
    February 22, 2017

    Hardley, listen, you are constantly trapped by wrong feelings, wrong decisions, wrong beliefs, wrong information you believe in etc. and way too unintelligent to understand that you are trapped and why you are trapped in self-deception. One of your most erroneous self-perceptions is that you think you are a scientist, because you are NO scientist (it does not matter that you look at insects and plants, a lot of housewives also do) as you are totally unable, as driven by destructive green-socialo political activism, to know what science really is: ANYBODY OF THE IDIOTS INTENTIONALLY BY OBSCURE MOTIVATIONS OR NAIVELY BELIEVING IN ANTHROPOGENIC GLOBAL WARMING IS BY DEFINITION AN ANTI-SCIENTIST, BUT POLITICAL ACTIVIST with strong narcistic motivation of not-deserved public attention. As the small unimportant mentally limited being just keep silent with your central ridiculous belief: ut is getting warmer.

    Hardley firmly believes that it is getting warmer, because of more CO2 from human civilization and he believes that a lot of people and insects are threatened to find death in a few hundred years, and he therefore blathers about his corrupt ecosystem services crap. Stop this, Hardley, as it putrifies your miserably misguided life. Hardley believes in AGW although he never has never done temperature readings. HARDLEY, YOU HAVE NEVER LOOKED AT ONE SINGLE THERMOMETER THAT WAS USED BY THE GREEN FUNDAMENTALISTS IN CRU, NOAA AND GISS TO FAKE A SO CALLED GLOBAL TEMPERATURE.

    HARDLEY, why do you believe in something that you have not studied?

    Fact 1: Hardley had absolutely no clue, what temperature really is, but he does not like warmer temperatures (my advice: go to live in Greenland, it’s very cold there, believe me, you idiot)

    Fact 2: Hardley has absolutely no clue why and how we humans perceive warmth, how are body functions to deal with warmth: Hardley is totally illiterate how the human brain and the whole body’s physiolgy works: this moron talks about things without even a minimum of education, like the other full-trolled idiot here “LIONELL F”, who looks at different bolts on airplane wings, but mis-perceives himself as somebody with knowledge were he has ZERO but only strong ideological beliefs about matters where he wants political change to the evil and destruction. Lionel should stop trolling here and wasting his miserable lifetime in permanent idiotic behavior.

  66. #68 kim
    February 22, 2017

    Hardley, Linel listen and take note: The influence of increasing CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere on air temperatures in 2m above the ground or above the ocean surface cannot be measured. Simpletons like you are way too silly to understand this. Not a single NATIONAL SCIENTIFIC ACADEMY could measure the impact of rising human CO2 on air temperatures in 2m above the ground or the water: THEREFORE ALL THE RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ON AGW IS PURE SHIT.

  67. #69 kim
    February 22, 2017

    Hardley, why do you constantly eclipse your personal hiatus in your life why you hide your activities between age 18 and 34 in your CV? Did you carry a undecent life in jail, as a junky, or only as a toilet cleaner or taxi driver, or like Linnelo you have looked at metal surfaces and studied different bolts????

    Hardley start to try to show a minumum of honesty and stop the lies about your life.

  68. #70 Bernard J.
    February 22, 2017

    There goes Bernard….suspecting and surmising but never really knowing.

    Ah, the irony.

  69. #71 Betula
    February 22, 2017

    The only “irony” is in your imagination Bernard, which is why you can’t point to an actual example….just more surmising on your part.

    Ah, Deltoid,

  70. #72 Lionel A
    February 25, 2017

    kim needs a new buzz phrase generator, the one he is using ATM is demonstrating chaotic behaviour.

    And yes, metallurgy is one area that intersected with my career in aviation, but then that was just part two of a full life which continued to involve study in fresh fields.

    I wonder what the sum total of your achievements are, hindered as you are with the use, or more correctly, misuse of language let alone incoherence of thought.

    You need to be re-injected into the start of the learning process and learn to learn. Shame that time machines are impossible so even that is not open to you.

    Your #68 is from classic knowledge envy. You have not progressed far along the ‘data — information — knowledge — understanding — wisdom continuum’ being stuck somewhere between the first two stages.

  71. #73 Betula
    February 26, 2017

    It’s the year 2107, it’s still January, and there’s been 1 comment going on 4 days…..If this isn’t a dead blog, then what is?

    Poor Hardley, his baby is gone…

    What will he have to talk about at conferences?

  72. #74 Bernard J.
    February 27, 2017

    One of my Tweeps dropped this on my timeline today:


    It recalls some of the vituperation from Deltoid’s Swedish Collective, bravely supported by the scientific ignorance of the the other climate change deniers here. The thing is, a lot of it is straight from the Bumper Bannon Book for Breaking the Planet.

    Betula, you’re posting here. It isn’t dead.

    By the way, how’s the Arctic sea ice? Or, closer to the neighbourhood of Deltoid, the Great Barrier Reef? What about the effectively extinct Tasmania kelp forests? Or the reeling Carpentaria mangrovesOr the Carpentaria mangroves?

    Why do you and the rest of the anti-science knucukle-draggers here hate the planet and its ecosystems so much that you’re happy to consign so much of our biodiversity to imminent extinction purely to hold on a few years longer to your conservative fairytale of libertarian infallibility?

    Why does actual learning not stick to the teflon of the ganglion hibernating inside your skull, and that serves as an imitation of a brain?

  73. #75 Bernard J.
    February 27, 2017

    Oh for the good old days when SB had a preview.

  74. #76 Stu 2
    February 27, 2017

    Your question @#74 is complete tosh.
    Trillions are being spent world wide on monitoring and managing places like the GBR.
    People do not hate the planet and its ecosystems.
    Why are you asking such supremely stupid, unproductive, questions?

  75. #77 kim
    February 28, 2017

    Berntard and Linol are the typical naked laymen in atmospheric sciences (no education at all) with cherrypicking Dunning-Kruger habits to pick up from google what pleases their predefined political ideology. Both are typical red herrings and logical fallacies as shorter Hardley with his crapped adoration of illusioned ecosystem seargents.

  76. #78 Bernard J.
    February 28, 2017

    Stu 2.

    We’re not “managing” the GBR – in case you haven’t noticed, it’s rapidly degrading.

    “Trillions”? Care to itemise that claim?

    It’s a real question. It’s not only the GBR that is degrading, but just about every other ecosystem on the planet. This cannot go on indefinitely, and it cannot even go on for many more decades before the elastic resilience of these ecosystems fails. And yet humanity continues on its path of destruction.

    So why do humans seem to be so hell-bent on shitting their only nest in the universe?

    Kim (love your name play by the way – so clever; you must be proud), I have more degrees and (tertiary) diplomas than a hobbit has meals in a day. I note too that you are using many observations that I have for years applied to you and your ilk. It seems to be a trend lately – imintation apparently is the sincerest form of flattery.

    Anyway, here’s the thing: you can bluster and deny science all you like, but the laws of physics will win in the end, no matter how much you attempt to sweep the evidence under the carpet. I hope that you’re not one of the angry retired old men crowd, because if you see a few more decades before you turn back to dust you’ll get to see the growing incontrovertibility of climate change and the huge damage that warming is causing, and will continue to cause. I really hope that you get to see that.

    And I hope that one day in the distant future, when you feel your heart start to falter and the painfulness of your last breath squeezes your chest in the vice grip of impending death, that you remember your support for not doing our best to save the Holocene climate and ecology of the planet. I hope that the profound awfulness of this realisation scours your soul until it sputters and extinguishes for all time: that your final moments are ones of abject anguish and terrible understanding of your failure as a decent human being.

    Because that would be justice. It won’t help the planet, unfortunately, but it would be justice.

  77. #79 Jeff Harvey
    February 28, 2017

    Hi Bernard, As you know, I have more scientific qualifications in my little pinky on my left hand than Kim and Betula have in their wildest dreams, let alone in their physical seleves…

    Betula is more a right wing loon that leads him to display bouts of confirmation bias… Stu thinks that a tweak here and a tweak there will readily repair fraying food webs and collapsing ecosystems, and KIm is literally insane, putting it mildly. He is too deluded to truly be considered a sociopath, but veers off into psychotic territory… the only reason I engage with him/her/it is to elucidate some form of perverse comic relief….

    And as the planet slides inexorably towards hell, watch these vile examples of humanity scream the loudest when the shit well and truly hits the fan.

  78. #80 Jeff Harvey
    February 28, 2017

    Just read Kim’s rants above and the English grammar is so utterly appalling that it begs the question: from where is he writing this drivel? Certainly a padded cell somewhere, but that’s as far as i can go…

    And there is Betula again intimating that the death of Deltoid somehow is evidence that discussions on AGW and global change are over…. sheesh, what an idiot.

  79. #81 kim
    March 1, 2017

    After shorter Hardley no also tiny Berntard starts praising non-existing ecoshit servlings: can you morons stop this utter crap. You will never understand that bacteria grow in any circumstances be it hot or cold requiring only water. Water is on this planet before assholes like you over-complacent with your minority complexes of born loosers how have exactly zero impact on anything you intend to spoil and vile with your insane psychotic crap of illusioned morality which is not but decadent behavior of mentally incapable and hopelessly retarded non-significants. People like Betula or Stu 2, of course Olaus, not to speak of myself, are infnitely superior in any significant and important aspect of modern life, because we represent the strong future-oriented direction of mankind whereas you whiners and cowards go to bed, get constantly ill about things you cannot cope with and dive into your personal nirwana of no-future for yourself but not mankind without assholes like you. You better throw your stinking Dunning Kruger vile on yourself and hang yourself on the next tree. Nobody will miss angry idiots like you. Get out here, you insane trolls or I will call Tim to throw you out now.

  80. #82 Jeff Harvey
    March 1, 2017

    What makes Kim so hilarious to read is not only his pathological, vile ignorance, but the fact that he/she/it does not understand the concept behind the Dunning-Kruger effect. Betula doesn’t either. The authors set out to show that the less a person knows about a specific field of endeavour, the more they think that they know. Kim and Betula are textbook examples. Neither has any pedigree or expertise in any relevant fields, yet they write as if they are statured experts.

    Take Kim’s whimsically vacuous comments about ecosystem services. This is an area I do research, because it is related to my academic training in population and evolutionary ecology. Kim won’t tell us what he does except to say, in appalling English, that he and a few other untrained outliers here are ‘infinitely superior’ (in his words) to me, Bernard, and thousands of other scholars who have been to university and research the relevant fields for a living. One of the important tenets of science when evaluating the credibility of an argument is to ‘follow the credentials’ (Pimm and Harvey, 2001). The vast majority of climate change deniers on blogs and online – people like Kim – have no relevant education. If they did, oh yes, we’d know ALL about it. Deniers plaster the credentials of the odd scientist whose arguments they like over the entire blogosphere – look at Judith Curry. Her publication record is strong but not exceptional, and certainly not as strong as mine, but in the eyes of the deniers she is a bonafide legend, simply because she is one of very few statured scientists who denies or at least downplays AGW.

    And what about the vast majority of scientists – certainly well over 90% – who believe that AGW IS real and is a real threat? They get the Kim/Betula et al treatment. This means that attempts are made to ‘isolate them from the herd’; on Deltoid, Betula and Kim are masters of trying to give the impression that the scientific debate lies between them, Olaus, me, Lionel and Bernard. Forget the fact that every major scientific organization and National Academy on Earth affirms the reality of AGW, this is ritually ignored and the debate comes back to the confines of Deltoid. The second ploy is to relentlessly smear, ridicule and berate your opponents. Bernard and I have more qualifications in our little fingers than Kim, Betula and Olaus do in your combined body masses; indeed, these three deniers HAVE NO RELEVANT QUALIFICATIONS. I will gladly tell Kim why I studied at a later age if he will first tell me what he does for a living (without lying, of course, which is a ritualistic behaviour among deniers).

    Now back to Dunning-Kruger. Kim habitually ridicules the concept of ecosystem services – by now a core subject in economic and ecological courses in universities around the world. So what expertise does he possess in the field? Well, you guessed it – NONE! So that places him at the base of the x axes (near the junction of the x and y axes on the D-K graph, in the know-nothing area) whereas on the y-axis he would be placed very high, reflecting high confidence. Pure D-K effect; a textbook example. And in keeping with that, he is so utterly stupid that he doesn’t know that he is stupid, also explained in D-K presentations. Once again, a textbook case of the D-K effect. Also, I would like to see proof of his ‘infinitely superior intelligence’ in the form of bonafide qualifications e.g. a PhD degree, or some other example of his relevant education. He has none, so he is left to tell the world how utterly brilliant he is without the letters after his name to prove it.

    With respect to Tm, he is a friend on Facebook and we have exchanged posts. So Kim, if anyone is going to be banned, its you. If I write to Tim and tell him to ban you, he WILL do it. The only reason I have not done so thus far is because your posts are so utterly hilarious and vacuously ignorant that I copy-paste some of them and show them to my students and colleagues to prove that there are deranged people in the world. And your posts provide me with comic relief.

  81. #83 Betula
    March 1, 2017

    Bernard’s vision of the future is his absolution…. and If you question the vision, you have thus created the vision, so he hopes you live to see the vision…and then die a painful death.

    A true visionary.

  82. #84 Betula
    March 1, 2017

    Hardley – “And there is Betula again intimating that the death of Deltoid somehow is evidence that discussions on AGW and global change are over…. sheesh, what an idiot”

    First of all, this is a “science” blog, not an AGW blog…

    Second, only a true idiot could imagine that Deltoid and it’s 4 to 5 followers actually carries any weight when it comes to discussions about science.

    Yes Hardley, you are that one true idiot… and remember, you’re the scientist.

  83. #85 Stu 2
    March 1, 2017

    Bernard J @#78.
    You got something right.
    Your poor attitude and vitriol will do absolutely nothing to help the planet.
    I would suggest that attitude is greatly assisting poor behaviour.
    The GBR and Ove’s studies have been receiving significant funding for at least 2 decades.
    Worldwide, funding for WH listed sites like the GBR , over the last 3 decades has reached the trillions.

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