Mark Hoofnagle has a PhD in physiology from the University of Virginia and is currently a 3rd year medical student. His interest in denialism concerns the use of denialist tactics to confuse public understanding of scientific knowledge.
It's worse than I thought.
A local investigative reporter has just broadcast a report on mercury, vaccines, and autism that was devoid of any investigation. It was a piece of lazy journalism, relying on the propaganda of the antivax cults, rather than real medical information. It was a pure propaganda piece. Before this aired, I did email Wilson and offer to hook him up with actual experts. I received no reply.
Let me share some details...
I have the transcript for fisking, but first some propaganda elements. The president of the American Academy of Pediatrics was given two brief cameos. They were close up, and she was perspiring a la the Nixon-Kennedy debates---she was made to look bad. And he accused her of lying. She stated that mercury is not present in most childhood vaccines, and Wilson flat out said that it's in at least 11 of them. She was given no chance to respond. Random folks from a Green our Vaccines rally were, however, given free rein to say anything without fear of being contradicted. He used loaded language liberally, often emphasizing that mercury-containing vaccines are routinely given to young children. The lies and deceptions were not enough for this guy.
Anyway, on to the transcript.
Anchor Lead:It's the controversy that won't go away. Is the skyrocketing rate of Autism in children due in any way to the mercury long contained in childhood vaccines? It's an issue our chief investigative reporter Steve Wilson has stayed with from the start...and Steve will science ever answer this one?
Already we're begging the question. Is there really a "skyrocketing rate of Autism (sic)"? According to actual statistics, no
It could happen one day but only if researchers keep looking...and with 1 in 150 children now diagnosed with Autism in this country--more than 100 new, young victims every single day--a lot of skeptical parents and others believe there's a big incentive for industry and government to cover up the truth.
Implication: if only the government would just stop covering things up, and if real studies were done, the problem would be obvious.
Well, I've got news for ya, Steve: the studies have been done, over and over again, and they are of good quality, and from many different nations. Vaccines don't cause autism. Also, there is no cover up.
Steve's quote from the doctor: "I don't think anybody is saying you want to inject mercury... for routine vaccinations, we don't allow it to happen."
Steve's juxtaposed quote from a mom with no stated credentials other than having an autistic child: "...and I know for a fact people that have gone to their physician and have been told there was no Thimerosal in their vaccine, then the parents asked to see the package insert and they find it there."
Nice. Take the doc, make her look terrible, take the mom, make her look great. Have the mom, with no credentials contradict the doc without any evidence other that "I heard it somewhere". Then treat it as the truth. Did you actually investigate any of these "facts", Steve? You are an investigative reporter. If an expert tells you something, ask another expert if they agree. If some random kook tells you something, try to nail it down. That's what reporters are supposed to do.
A congressional committee that studied the matter has already concluded: "Thimerosal...is directly related to the Autism epidemic."It could have been prevented or curtailed "had the FDA not been asleep at the switch" allowing the untested toxic to be part of the vaccine recipe, something the committee report blamed on "misplaced protectionism of the pharmaceutical industry."
Presidential candidate John McCain says now there's "strong evidence" of a link between skyrocketing Autism and the mercury in vaccines.
No respected medical body or government institution has ever found a connection.
He then goes on to show Boyd Haley, who Wilson calls "a scientist and pioneer in the study of this issue." Actually, Haley is an "expert" in the issue in the same way that my daughter is an expert in poop---she is terribly interested, has some interesting ideas based on fantasy and immaturity, is illiterate, and completely wrong. But at least she's cute.
Wilson goes on to cite similar "experts" on issues that, if he had even bothered to consult an expert or even google, would have sent him running away screaming. For example, he quotes the infamous "monkey study", which added nothing to our understanding of autism. He then uses the "Amish Gambit" in which antivaxers claim that the Amish don't vaccinate and have a much lower incidence of autism. This is false.
And if the deception wasn't thick enough, he repeats the typical canard about the Hannah Poling case...despite the wild claims made, the government admitted no connection between vaccines and autism in the Poling case. Read it.
This report is full of so many of the typical lies, it makes me sick, and sad. Investigative reporters are essential to democracy. They are willing and able to dig up buried facts, to chase down stories without fear of losing a job, and to basically disturb the peace for the greater good. With great power comes great responsibility. Exercise it, Steve, and next time, do your damned homework.
Medicine & Health
Comments
Poor besotted PalMD wrote "This report is full of so many of the typical lies, it makes me sick, and sad. Investigative reporters are essential to democracy."
The problem is that "investigative" reporters are only as good as their education. They get sucked into the whole cloth lie when they don't know any better.
One of my early mom friends was an "investigative" reporter for a local news radio station. She was very intelligent woman, and had won several journalism awards. Then she talked to me about the weird spiritual side of holograms. Uh, wait... no, they are artifacts of photography and physics, nothing really odd about them. I even gave her an article explaining what they were.
Unfortunately, it didn't help. Her lack of science acumen was overwhelmed by woo.
Sometimes I think journalists are just idiots.
Posted by: HCN | July 9, 2008 2:36 AM
Like it or not, PalMD is right when he says that investigative reporters are vital for democracy - and don't forget that many of us bloggers are investigative reporters in an alternative media. It's really easy to be cynical, but if we didn't have the cream of journalism we'd just have lobbyists and conspiracy nutters. We wouldn't have a clue what was going on in countries like Zimbabwe, and the word Watergate would be meaningless.
It disgusts me to see things like this though. Media organs should have to face up to responsibility that comes with free speech.
Posted by: Martin Robbins | July 9, 2008 4:25 AM
Another guy who stopped as soon as they had a story. What I don't understand is why they lie, when 10 seconds on google is going to destroy their credibility. This isn't even half lies, this is just made up bull...
-A congressional committee that studied the matter has already concluded: "Thimerosal...is directly related to the Autism epidemic."-
If I were the vaccine makers, i'd sue for slander.
Posted by: Richrd Eis | July 9, 2008 4:30 AM
"Well, I've got news for ya, Steve: the studies have been done, over and over again, and they are of good quality, and from many different nations. Vaccines don't cause autism. Also, there is no cover up."
My autistic son is now 12. I never subscribed to the vaccine causes autism hypothesis because most credible sources indicated there was no evidence to support such a causal relationship. It seems to me though that you ignore some of the criticisms of the various epidemiological studies when you state categorically that the studies are of good quality.
You also rely for your authority on that point on a medical person who is also a highly ideological autism blogger - Orac. Your sidebar list of Autism/Mercury sites also indicate that your general references on autism/mercury are other Neurodiversity ideological bloggers such as Autism Diva, Autism Street and Keven Leitch at LB/RB. Your "lies" reference in your comment title also indicates your own strong ideological approach.
There have been serious criticisms made of various of the better known studies referenced. Ex NIH head Dr. Bernardine Healey has been reported as stating that many in the scientific world have been quick to dismiss the concerns of parents and have not conducted the necessary studies of causation to definitively rule out a vaccine/autism link.
Has there been a cover up? You say categorically that there has not but provide nothing to back up your belief. The 2004 IOM report suggests that biological research into a possible vaccine autism connection should not be conducted, p152:
SIGNIFICANCE ASSESSMENT
The committee concludes that because autism can be such a devastating disease, any speculation that links vaccines and autism means that this is a significant issue.
...
Policy Review
At this time, the committee does not recommend a policy review of the licensure of MMR vaccine or of the current schedule and recommendations for the administration of the MMR vaccine.
At this time, the committee does not recommend a policy review of the current schedule and recommendations for the administration of routine childhood vaccines based on hypotheses regarding thimerosal and autism.
Given the lack of direct evidence for a biological mechanism and the fact that all well-designed epidemiological studies provide evidence of no association between thimerosal and autism, the committee recommends that cost-benefit assessments regarding the use of thimerosal-containing versus thimerosal-free vaccines and other biological or pharmaceutical products, whether in the United States or other countries, should not include autism as a potential risk."
I have not accepted that a vaccine autism link has been proven. The assertion that such a link has been categorically dis-proven though is ... weak.
Posted by: Harold L Doherty | July 9, 2008 5:32 AM
Same reason that professional wrestling is all staged - ratings. It's just like the show before, and the news is just another show...
Posted by: Dunc | July 9, 2008 6:01 AM
Posted by: Oldfart | July 9, 2008 9:33 AM
Anyone that has studied these so-called vaccine/thimerosal studies knows that they are ALL FLAWED in one way or another. I urge everyone to purchase the Vaccine Safety Manual by Neil Z. Miller for over 1,000 credible "facts" involving vaccines. Vaccines are all about politics and money (aka greed and power). Nothing more.
Posted by: dawn2000k![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/nav-commenters.gif)
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July 9, 2008 11:23 AM
"What I don't understand is why they lie, when 10 seconds on google is going to destroy their credibility. "
Because they know that most people watching the news won't spend those 10 seconds.
Posted by: Dr. Kate | July 9, 2008 1:47 PM
Yeah, that's great advice. Go get your medical advice and scientific evidence from a journalist. I'm sure if you are arrested you'll call up your local plumber to devise your defense.
Posted by: ozzy | July 9, 2008 2:19 PM
Previous comment was for dawn2000k, sorry.
Posted by: ozzy | July 9, 2008 2:21 PM
There have been serious criticisms made of various of the better known studies referenced.
That's actually not generally true. There is some criticism, mostly unpublished. In general, I don't find it to be strong criticism. Some of the weaker studies have had more rigorous follow-ups. For example, Verstraeten et al. was followed up by Thompson et al. (2007), which was an amazingly well done study. The criticisms of Thompson et al. (2007) were quite weak and unconvincing, BTW. But you're welcome to argue otherwise.
Posted by: Joseph | July 9, 2008 2:26 PM
I grew up in an area heavily settled by Mennonites (lifestyles much like the Amish). They tend not to vaccinate either... but to be perfectly fair, I would suspect that autistic kids wouldn't be necessarily identified in their community, especially if they were reasonably high-functioning. Yes, they might be considered "weird", but I would think if the kid could drive a tractor, they'd be fine.
Also...Old Order Mennonites and Amish are groups with founder effect diseases and very little out-marriage. So autism rates might also reflect a different genetic background.
Posted by: katie | July 9, 2008 3:07 PM
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/07/thanks_andrew_wakefield.php
Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2008 3:53 PM
Steve Wilson couldn't find his ass with 2 hands. I think this calls for lots of ad hominem attacks.
There is NO amount of data or research that can change the belief of a believer. Why do we even bother?
Mark Crislip, M.D of Quackcast is probably right. Vaccines are safe and everyone should be up to date. How else is the government going to get the secret tracking nanobots into our children?
Has anyone noticed that since the nanobots have been secretly added to the vaccines that global temperatures have increased? I think I smell another "Problem Solvers" investigation coming from good ol' Steve Wilson.
Chelation is the only answer to get rid of the nanobots and end global warming! Ya got to admit, this makes as much sense as the stuff Wilson and the proponents of the new "McCarthyism" are shovelling. Peeee-uuuuuuuuh !
Posted by: Blind Watchmaker | July 9, 2008 7:18 PM
Oh, and another thing. Wilson is making a big deal that there is still some mercury in "11" common vaccines that we give children. Look at the table he put on his website that came from JAMA http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm
I am a pediatrician and give a lot of shots. I have to pander to the false premise that Thimerosal was dangerous to begin with. To get the anti-vaccine crowd to shut up, mercury WAS removed. Look at that list. The common vaccines that any average kid will get has NONE, nodda, zip, zero mercury. See the listings for Hep B, DTaP, IPV, HIB, Pediarix (a combination vaccine), Prevnar, MMR, Varicella, and TdaP. What do you find? Zippo.
Maybe we can put this in perspective for Mr. Wilson.
Zero is the amount of thought put into his decision making. Zero is the amount of good he is doing the community. Zero is the amount that eminent scientists like Jenny M. know about science and the scientific method. Zero is the amount of mercury in our kids vaccines.
Well, there is some in the flu shot. The vast, evil medical conspiracy have to have some fun, don't they. The themerosal is needed to power the nanobots.
Posted by: Blind Watchmaker | July 9, 2008 8:27 PM
Why aren't the "Green Our Vaccines" folks up in arms about this :
http://www.globalwarmingart.com/index.php?title=Image:Compact_Fluorescent_Light_Bulb.jpg&printable=yes
Go Green!
Posted by: Blind Watchmaker | July 9, 2008 8:42 PM
While I left this comment over at Orac's, it is worth repeating here:
Steve Wilson is a serial offender in the talking trash and science-free allegations:
The Strange Case of Steve Wilson How a fraudulent crusader snookered the left-and is threatening the First Amendment by John Sugg in Reason Magazine, May 2006 (also contains details of the suit outlined below)
Florida Reporters Win Trial Over Fox TV and Monsanto Suppression of rBGH Story Steve Wilson's slant on the trial. (warning--reality distortion field)
Fox News reporter found scary evidence linking a Monsanto product, commonly found in milk, to cancer. So why did her boss threaten to fire her? Jayne Ackre's slant on the story. (warning--reality distortion field)
Akres and Wilson's website on the suit (warning--reality distortion field) http://www.foxbghsuit.com/
Sugg ends the Reason piece with this:
Summary: Wilson made his fame and fortune over another trumped-up, biased, fear-mongering story. Why would he suddenly become a fan of science this late in his career?
Posted by: Liz Ditz | July 10, 2008 10:35 AM
ZOMFG, Liz, thanks for the links...
Posted by: PalMD![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/nav-commenters.gif)
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July 10, 2008 10:55 AM
I am a media ignoramus, generally:
But is Wilson's appalling farrago of lies and distortions worthy of an FCC complaint?
Posted by: Liz Ditz | July 10, 2008 11:12 AM
Boy, you folks are awefully fired up about a report based on a CDC list of vaccines that still contain mercury while it is widely (and falsely) reported that the the heavy metal was altogether removed years ago.
Some of you more-vitriolic folks remind me of those who SWORE there was, and could not be, any link between tobacco and cancer. Have you seen some of the ads with docs in white coats saying something like: "Yeah, I recommend my patients have a smoke. It relaxes them!"
Surely we can agree on this:
1. Nobody knows what causes Autism and no study has ever proved or disproved to an accepted scientific certainty that mercury is a trigger in some cases;
2. Mercury, like lead, is a heavy metal that is toxic to humans and should be avoided at all costs;
3. 11 vaccines that can be injected into children (and pregnant women) still contain mercury despite the call nearly 10 years ago from the AAP, government and independent experts for it to be altogether removed;
4. Thimerosal does nothing to increase the efficacy of the vaccine. It exists only for the benefit--financial and otherwise--of those who make it, sell it and ultimately inject it.
So can one of you geniuses explain to me why in the world anybody in their right mind would want to inject the second-most toxic heavy metal known into the body of a baby? This seems like a good idea to some of you???
Posted by: Steve Wilson WXYZ-TV Detroit | July 10, 2008 12:54 PM
Steve, thanks very much for responding.
You really do need to do a little more reading though. When you say "Surely we can agree on this: " the fact is, we can't.
1)"no study has ever proved or disproved to an accepted scientific certainty that mercury is a trigger in some cases" In fact the data is quite clear. If your measure for disproof is "absolute certainty", then it's time to stop believing in gravity.
2)Yes, mercury is a metal, and is toxic, however, chemisty is hard. Ethylmercury is not the same as "mercury" is not the same as methylmercury.
3)it is false that 11 regularly used vaccines contain mercury. of the common childhood vaccines, only the flu shot has any thimerosal. That, and thimerosal has been shown to be harmless by many very good studies.
4)Thimerosal has been removed from most in order to placate folks. It is useful, but we've largely made due without it.
A good use of your talents would be to investigate why the antivax folks seem to be in on a secret that the rest of us professionals have been to daft to catch on to.
Posted by: PalMD![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/nav-commenters.gif)
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July 10, 2008 1:08 PM
Can't handle the truth, huh?
Posted by: Smarter Than You | July 10, 2008 1:20 PM
OK, I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt, but your analogy tells me all that I need to know to convince me you're completely off the deep end and beyond redemption on this issue. You know why? The evidence supporting the link between cancer and smoking was massive and irrefutable, and tobacco companies waged a denialist campaign at the cost of millions, if not billions, of dollars to cast doubt upon it. It's nothing like the fairy dust, "we don't knows," and pseudoscientific appeals to ignorance that antivaccinationists use as "evidence" to support a "link" between vaccines and autism.
In brief, you have no clue what you're talking about on this issue. You've drunk the Kool Aid.
Define "accepted scientific certainty." Without a specific definition of what you mean by that it is impossible for me to agree or disagree with you, other than that no study has ever provided even mildly compelling evidence that vaccines can somehow cause or "trigger" autism.
I take it you don't eat any fish, then. Or breathe the air in Detroit. Or drink the water from the Great Lakes. The dose is the poison. Read some basic pharmacology. Botox is a deadly poison, but rich celebrities pay big bucks to have it injected into their faces. Moreover, ethyl mercury (thimerosal) is different than methyl mercury or metallic mercury. Toxicity depends on chemical form, too. Chlorine is a deadly poison, but it's in table salt in the form of sodium chloride.
None of the vaccines commonly recommended for children below the age of six, with the exception of the influenza vaccine (of which the only licensed version for children under two years is a thimerosal free version, by the way) contain mercury.
I doubt anyone in a Third World country would see it that way. Thimerosal is a preservative, which prevents bacterial contamination in multiuse vials and thereby lowers costs. In the developing world, it can mean the difference between children who are protected against vaccine-preventable diseases and those who are not. In any case, there are a number of good epidemiological studies that have failed to find a link between thimerosal and autism or other neurodevelopmental disorders. You're falling for the fallacy of the perfect solution.
Actually, no one is doing that anymore. There is no more than trace thimerosal in any infant vaccine. Your deceptive, poorly researched, one-sided bit of yellow journalism also has the potential to do real harm? I'm tempted to ask you: Why in the world should we accept the "scientific opinion" of a biased reporter over that of pediatricians and scientists on this issue?
Posted by: Orac | July 10, 2008 1:21 PM
Mr Wilson,
I'm parent to an eight year old autistic child. We live in the UK.
I am very disappointed that you would approach autism in this way. Year after year both in the UK and US funding for studies becomes scarcer and scarcer. It has now been over 10 years since both the thiomersal and MMR hypotheses were touted and in those 10 years no study has even come close to establishing a link between any vaccine, any vaccine component or any vaccine schedule.
If you are a reporter that truly cares about facts and presenting the truth to people I would urge you to move away from interviewing people such as Boyd Haley. Please start casting your net of interview subjects wider for doctors and scientists who actually work in the fields (Dr Jeffery Brent is a world renowned toxicologist for example) concerned.
Boyd Haley's scientific evidence has been thrown out of more than one courtroom for failing to meet basic standards of science. Surely that tells you something?
I also find it ironic that you compare science refuting the autism/vaccine ideas to that of the tobacco industry. Did you know that Dr Bernadine Healy who recently came out to support the vaccine ideas was a paid shill for Phillip Morris?
Autistic people deserve a better standard of science than this. They need research monies for good educational programs, living programs and therapies. I would please ask you to consider the impact that you are having on autistic people when you continue to promulgate false stories regarding autism.
Posted by: Kev | July 10, 2008 2:12 PM
Just a few points of clarification.
Genetics, environment, and vaccine ingredients have not been scientifically proven to cause ASD in a majority of accurately diagnosed ASD individuals.
Only 6% of the 2008 influenza vaccines were Thimerosal free and this amount is insufficient to cover all adolescence that are advised by the CDC to receive the vaccine which in perspective was only 40% effective for the season.
Posted by: Chuck | July 10, 2008 2:37 PM
Steve Wilson has compounded his errors by repeating them above.
First off, there is a general consensus in the scientific community (apart from those "scientists" who are wholly-owned subsidiaries of the mercury-causes-autism movement) that mercury does not cause (or "trigger") autism. To put it in Mr. Wilson's terms, it is "accepted" to a great deal of certainty in the real scientific community that mercury does not cause/trigger autism.
Unless and until new, compelling data is presented, that "hypothesis" is dead. Mr. Wilson's error was to listen only to the few doctors and "scientists" who have become emotionally attached to this dead hypothesis and cannot let it rest in peace.
Secondly, before Mr. Wilson goes off onto the "If we don't know what causes autism, we can't know what doesn't cause it!" tangent, let me preempt that line of "reasoning". Mercury has been removed from children's vaccines (see below), mercury levels in the air, water and soil have been declining since at least the 1980's and yet autism prevalence - as measured by social and educational programs - keeps rising. I'd say that even without knowing the cause (or causes) of autism, we can eliminate mercury as a viable contender.
The phrase "at all costs" is probably there just for dramatic (literary) effect, but let's look at it for a minute. Mercury is (and has always been) a ubiquitous part of our environment. Even if all human use of the metal were eliminated, it still is emitted by fumaroles, volcanos and deep-sea hydrothermal vents.
At any rate, mercury has been removed from children's vaccines and is gradually being phased out of use in most other products. In other words, Mr. Wilson's second "point" is a straw man - it is arguing against a position that nobody is taking.
If somebody were arguing that mercury should be introduced into vaccines and that we should be using mercury in more industrial processes and consumer products, then Mr. Wilson's point might make some sense. Given the current situation, however, it appears to be just a distraction.
The phrase "can be" covers a lot of journalistic weaseling. Vaccines against yellow fever, typhoid fever, plague and cholera all still contain thimerosal (primarily because they not routinely used in children in the Western world), but they can be injected into children. Thimerosal-free formulations of routine vaccines from influenza to hepatitis B are available and are the vaccine of choice for children and pregnant women.
It would be illuminating for Mr. Wilson to list the "11 vaccines" he has in mind. Perhaps then we could see where his bias lies.
Ah yes! The famous "Big Pharma" profit-mongering "straw man". Except that it's not really a straw man because the thimerosal was in the vaccines for the benefit of the consumer (i.e. the person getting the vaccine) all along.
Preservatives are in vaccines to prevent bacterial and fungal growth. This is especially important in multi-use vials of vaccine. Bacterial and fungal growth is a risk even when the vaccines are refrigerated. Thus, preservatives are of great benefit to the people who receive the vaccines. Thimerosal has the advantage of being effective even when the vaccine is not refrigerated, which explains its continued use in regions of the world where refrigeration is not widely available.
If Mr. Wilson had bothered to check how "profitable" vaccines - especially "routine" vaccines (i.e. vaccines not on patent) are to their manufacturers, he would have seen just how ludicrous his comment is. New vaccines can be moderately profitable, but making vaccines against measles, pertussis, diptheria and the like is almost a labor of love - it certainly doesn't pay the stockholders.
That's why the vaccine manufacturers in the US had to be indemnified by the VICP. If they weren't, the liability exposure would have made vaccine production a dead loss on the ledger. At the time the VICP was initiated, most manufacturers were planning to drop out of vaccine production - in fact, many did drop their vaccine lines, despite the VICP.
Finally, I have to comment on another lame (and inaccurate) comment by Mr. Wilson:
This is, of course, another classic "straw man" fallacy, where Mr. WIlson tries to argue against a position that nobody has taken. For Mr. Wilson's education, the discussion is about whether or not mercury causes autism, not whether or not mercury is toxic in any form or dosage. However, it's much easier to argue against injecting babies with "poison" than it is to argue that mercury causes autism. Too bad nobody has taken the "it's good to poison babies" position - Mr. Wilson will just have to argue that one by himself.
The "second-most toxic metal" argument is also up for grabs, since Uranium, Polonium and even Cadmium are more toxic than mercury - depending on the particular compound the element is in.
Overall, Mr. Wilson appears to have written a fairly fact-free article that should have great emotional appeal to those who have already made up their minds that mercury (or vaccines) causes autism - despite copious data to the contrary.
Prometheus
Posted by: Prometheus | July 10, 2008 2:58 PM
Mr. Wilson, I have a question for you:
Today's five-year-olds have been exposed to far less antigens and thimerosal containing vaccines that children born in the 90s, yet autism rates have not declined. How do you explain that fact?
Posted by: AutismNewsBeat | July 10, 2008 3:02 PM
Like Kev I am from the UK. As I understand it the mercury argument arose because of a temporal association between an increase in the reported levels of autism and an increase in early childhood exposure to thiomersal in vaccines in the USA. Here in the UK we have experienced similar increases in reported levels of autism but we never increased the levels of thiomersal in our vaccine schedule.
Perhaps Mr Wilson can explain why UK autism levels increased. And maybe he should consider how unlikely it is that two different environmental triggers could cause parallel increases in autism in the USA and the UK. It is far more likely that there is a single explanation for the reported increase in both countries, one that does not involve mercury in any form.
Posted by: mike stanton | July 10, 2008 3:12 PM
Mr. Wilson, while you were doing your research did you happen to actually read this website?:
http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm
If you had, you have had the answer to many of your questions.
Also, while you were doing your extensvie research, did you read any of these papers?:
Mercury Levels in Newborns and Infants after Receipt of Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines
Authors: Pichichero ME, Gentile A, Giglio N, et al
Source: Pediatrics, February 2008; 121(2) e208-214
Mercury, Vaccines, And Autism: One Controversy, Three Histories
Author: Baker JP
Source: American Journal of Public Health, February 2008;98(2): 244-253
Continuing Increases in Autism Reported to California's Developmental Services System: Mercury in Retrograde
Authors: Schechter R, Grether JK
Source: Arch Gen Psychiatry, January 2008; 65(1):19-24
Early Thimerosal Exposure and Neuropsychological Outcomes at 7 to 10 Years
Authors: Thompson WW, Price C, Goodson B, et al; Vaccine Safety Datalink Team
Source: N Engl J Med, Sep 27, 2007; 357(13):1281-1292
Lack of Association between Rh Status, Rh Immune Globulin in Pregnancy and Autism
Authors: Miles JH, Takahashi TN
Source: Am J Med Genet, May 16, 2007
Thimerosal in Vaccines: Balancing the Risk of Adverse Effects with the Risk of Vaccine-Preventable Disease
Authors: Bigham M, Copes R
Source: Drug Safety, 2005, Vol. 28(2):89-101
Thimerosal Exposure in Infants and Developmental Disorders: A Prospective Cohort Study in the United Kingdom Does Not Support a Causal Association
Authors: Heron J, Golding J, ALSPAC Study Team
Source: Pediatrics, September 2004, Vol. 114(3):577-583
Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines and Autistic Spectrum Disorder: A Critical Review of Published Original Data
Authors: Parker SK, Schwartz B, Todd J, Pickering LK
Source: Pediatrics, September 2004, Vol. 114(3):793-804
Thimerosal in Vaccines: A Regulatory Prespective WHO Consultation, Geneva, 15-16 April 2002
Authors: Knezevic I, Griffiths E, Reigel F, Dobbelaer R
Source: Vaccine, May 7, 2004, Vol. 22(15-16):1836-41
The Evidence for the Safety of Thimerosal in Newborn and Infant Vaccines
Author: Clements CJ
Source: Vaccine, May 7, 2004, Vol. 22(15-16):1854-1861
Safety of Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines: A Two-Phased Study of Computerized Health Maintenance Organization Databases
Authors: Verstraeten T, Davis RL, DeStefano F, et al
Source: Pediatrics, November 2003, Vol. 112(5):1039-1048
Association Between Thimerosal-Containing Vaccine and Autism
Authors: Hviid A, Stellfeld M, Wohlfahrt J, Melbye M
Source: Journal of the American Medical Association, October 1, 2003, Vol. 290(13):1763-6
Thimerosal and the Occurrence of Autism: Negative Ecological Evidence from Danish Population-Based Data
Authors: Madsen KM, Lauritsen MB, Pedersen CB, et al
Source: Pediatrics, Sept. 2003, Vol. 112(3 Pt 1):604-606
Autism and Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines. Lack of Consistent Evidence for an Association
Authors: Stehr-Green P, Tull P, Stellfeld M, Mortenson PB, Simpson D
Source: American Journal of Preventive Medicine, August 2003, Vol. 25(2):101-6
Vaccine Safety Policy Analysis in Three European Countries: The Case of Thimerosal
Authors: Freed GL, Andreae MC, Cowan AE, et al
Source: Health Policy, December 2002, Vol. 62(3):291-307
Posted by: HCN | July 10, 2008 3:42 PM
While it's not really possible to prove a negative (you can always argue the risk factor is not 1.0 because there's room in the confidence interval for other possibilities)... when we know for a fact that thimerosal went from being in nearly 100% of pediatric vaccines (full dose) to 2% of vaccines by 2002, and the 3-5 administrative caseload of autism in California looks like this, I think it's time to move on.
Mr. Wilson is the worst type of denialist; i.e. someone who denies facts clearly in evidence, that anyone can verify.
Posted by: Joseph | July 10, 2008 4:54 PM
I could spend all day refuting the claims and assertions here, not to mention the personal attacks which wouldn't be necessary at all, would it, if the facts were unequivocally in support of your position? .
Say what you will, the science here is just not conclusive on either side. Even the head of the American Academy of Pediatrics has agreed with that.
Yes, HCN listed a bunch of studies, most of which have been seriously questioned by others. And lest anybody think all the science is one sided, those visiting here with an open mind may wish to visit here:
http://generationrescue.org/studies.html
And please don't waste more bandwidth arguing the weaknesses you see in those studies. As I already conceded, the science is not conclusive on either side--and I'm not the first, nor last, to mention the emperor without his clothes here. (I thought I'd try to work in a little sex just to spice up all this ranting from those who are taking themselves entirely too seriously.)
Posted by: Steve Wilson WXYZ-TV Detroit | July 10, 2008 5:02 PM
No Sir, the science is not conclusive - so why are you presenting only one side of it? Are you a journalist or a PR person?
And I'm afraid presenting GR's website is likely to impress no one here.
I'm sorry if you think parents of autistic people take this issue seriously. For us, this is a serious issue. One which you are not representing accurately.
Posted by: Kev | July 10, 2008 5:31 PM
The "personal" attacks are there because you have demonstrated yourself completely "worthy" of them, given that you have chosen to put the great power of the media you have in the service of pseudoscientific nonsense that has the potential to scare mothers into thinking that vaccines are somehow unsafe and thus put public health at risk. But, please, I don't expect you to "spend all day" refuting "all" of our claims and assertions. You're a busy guy. So let's make it easy. Please, just try refuting one of our claims in detail. Just one. Or defend just one of our assertions with specific data. Surely you can do that? Pick one that utilizes research from your report, so that you don't even have to look anything up. You can do that, can't you? It should be child's play if we're all so wrong, and your research is so bulletproof, shouldn't it?
Apparently you saw a different report than I did, even though you wrote and reported it. Dr. Jenkins did no such thing, at least not in any statement you showed from her in your report. Unless there's something you left on the cutting room floor--and why on earth would you leave such a juicy quote supporting your side of the argument on the cutting room floor, if such a quote existed?--there's nothing she said in your report that says that.
You've got to be kidding. Generation Rescue? J.B. Handley's advocacy group? Ha! Hardly an unbiased source of information, and those are cherry-picked studies, many of which I and others who've responded to you have debunked in detail elsewhere, particularly the Geiers' studies. But I don't want to spend all day doing it again if you're not willing to back up even a single one of your assertions with, oh, say...some evidence.
As for "seriously questioned," perhaps, busy guy that you are, you could pick just one study. Not all of them. Not even several of them. Just one. Then tell us what the specific criticisms of the science and methodology of the studies are and why those criticisms rise to the level of calling the study's conclusion into serious doubt. Come on. Show us how brilliant you are.
In other words, you've already made up your mind and don't want any inconvenient facts or science to get in the way of your opinion. I had hoped I was wrong about you, but clearly I'm not. Some reporter you are. You didn't even make the slightest pretense of being unbiased or fair in your story, and you don't even make a pretense of being interested in the other side or in correcting your numerous and severe errors here. What a shame. Detroiters deserve better.
We have to take the issue seriously in this discussion because it is mind-numbingly obvious that you do not. Your report and your comments here proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt. Besides, it's a very important issue. You yourself said so in your report. Now that you're getting spanked, suddenly you're all full of the yuck-yuck; all you forgot was the little smiley emoticon.
No doubt you'll pull a Brave Sir Robin and run away from the debate now that it's become crystal clear you can't defend a single thing you reported.
Posted by: Orac | July 10, 2008 5:43 PM
I meant "one of your assertions," of course. Damned typing fingers...
Posted by: Orac | July 10, 2008 5:44 PM
Damned missing HTML blockquote tag, as well. Hopefully PalMD will fix it for me...
Oh, well, in the meantime there's always this.
Posted by: Orac | July 10, 2008 5:46 PM
Hey Steve,
Why don't you look at the latest issue of Science (July 11th issue). Check out the cover story on autism. Why don't you do a follow-up report on it? Or is the truth and fair investigational reporting not your gig?
http://www.sciencemag.org/
Posted by: RJ | July 10, 2008 5:48 PM
Hmmmmm... where would I go for a list of actual scientific papers: www.PubMed.gov or GenerationRescue?
Who would I be more willing to listen to: a person with medical training or a venture capitalist?
Who could I trust more for better information: university based researchers or an internet squatter?... see http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/11/has_it_really_been_a_whole_year.php
Steve Wilson, what a maroon!
Posted by: HCN | July 10, 2008 6:00 PM
Steve,
vaccine preventable diseases are making a come back. Irresponsible broadcasting is making it worse by neeedlessly frightening parents away from vaccines.
You still have not answered my question. If thiomersal is to blame for autism why did reported figures for autism in the UK increase when thiomersal exposure was not increased?
Posted by: mike stanton | July 10, 2008 6:14 PM
Does Wilson even know about PubMed? I've spoken with "science reporters" who hadn't until I mentioned it.
Posted by: AutismNewsBeat | July 10, 2008 6:15 PM
For all of you who are not in the know about jouralism- Steve is an excellent investigative reporter, always has been.
Those who know his reporting and the emphasis he puts on accuracy have been impressed over the years. He takes his profession and the important role journalism plays in ferreting out the truth and shining a light on it very seriously.
Just a casual observation- The arrogance on this board is amazing!
Posted by: Jak | July 10, 2008 6:15 PM
Hey Steve! Some fans of work like yours! Way to help the community!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25621615/
Posted by: RJ | July 10, 2008 6:15 PM
HCN, you got me! You're entirely right. Something I just can't dispute. I'm just a maroon. Some days I'm a teal but today, yes indeed, I AM a maroon.
Posted by: Steve Wilson WXYZ-TV Detroit | July 10, 2008 6:20 PM
If that's true, Wilson's story on mercury in vaccines sure shows no evidence of any of these admirable characteristics of a good reporter that you attribute to him, nor does his inability to defend the assertions in his story.
Ah, yes, the old "arrogant" whine. A lovely way to dodge actually addressing criticism.
Sadly, I'm forced to conclude that it is Mr. Wilson who exhibits considerable arrogance, namely the arrogance of ignorance.
Posted by: Orac | July 10, 2008 6:23 PM
Leaving aside the ad hominem attacks, Steve has probably done some useful reporting. I'm not sure how much he dug out on the Kilpatrick thing, but he certainly helped keep the story of Detroit's ridiculously corrupt mayor alive (although I could have done without him putting himself bodily in front of...never mind). Our mayor is an embarrassment and distracts from our real problems.
Similarly, the antivax cults are an embarrassment to human thought that distracts from real problems. The data show that vaccines save lives and do not contribute to neurologic disease. The data show that the antivax movement has had some success at increasing vaccine-preventable diseases, and some failures in that they have removed thimerosal without a co-incident drop in autism rates.
As I stated above, investigative reporters are essential to democracy, but fake investigations used as propaganda are more properly found in totalitarian states.
Posted by: PalMD![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/nav-commenters.gif)
|
July 10, 2008 6:36 PM
PalMD,
I'm not sure how 'useful' it is. It's filled with errors that have been debunked years ago. If he had done enough research either in the scientific literature or bothered to read the court transcripts from the recently conducted omnibus proceedings, he would have known that he's dug up the decomposed horse corpse and started swinging at it again.
I think the tall-tale sign here is that he is actively defending his position on this board. A board that is frequented by scientists and medical professionals, and yet, even as a reporter for the lay media, insists he's on to something. That's not taking a stand. That's delusional.
Posted by: RJ | July 10, 2008 6:46 PM
Okay, since he completely missed the Bugs Bunny line I am absolutely sure he is also un-American!
http://www.frogstar.com/wav/displaywav.asp?fil=ltbb_052.wav
Posted by: HCN | July 10, 2008 6:49 PM
Man, you guys are even dumber than I thought. Who pays you? Which pharmawhore warehouse? You all need to get a life and it is obvious you all got a good dose of mercury containing vaccines because you all are dumber than a bunch of rocks.
You go ahead and keep injecting yourselves and children with all this toxic crap in vaccines. You will all evidentially die horrible deaths of cancer or some other form of auto-immune disorders.
Get a real education and stop taking really dirty nasty money from the pharmawhores who pay you all to write this nonsense.
STEVE WILSON IS A HERO. YOU CAN'T FIGHT THE TRUTH, SO YOU HAVE TO ATTACK CHARACTER.
I CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT. AND WHEN I DIE, I KNOW I AM GOING STRAIGHT UP. I AM SURE ALL YOU LYING SACKS OF YOU KNOW WHAT CAN'T SAY THE SAME.
Posted by: Much Smarter Than You | July 10, 2008 6:56 PM
Common Sue, you obviously cannot address the issue with facts so you have gone straight to the pharma-shill gambit:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/09/the_pharma_shill_gambit_1.php
Posted by: HCN | July 10, 2008 7:02 PM
"YOU CAN'T FIGHT THE TRUTH, SO YOU HAVE TO ATTACK CHARACTER."
Uh...isn't that exactly what you've done? I didn't see one piece dealing with the particulars of the discussion. Only a lot of accusations and insults. Nice!
Also, where should I go to get a "real education"? Do you have a couple websites that you recommend that you got your real education from? I suppose 2 graduate degrees and 15 years in the field is nothing compared to your AoA visits and watching the reporting of people like Steve Wilson.
Why is it always the ones who sound like they have no clue as to what they are talking about are the ones who claim they've been 'educated' (just like some born-again who knows Jesus better than anyone else)...and that others need to get educated just like them?
Posted by: RJ | July 10, 2008 7:12 PM
By the way, Common Sue, I only attacked his character when he showed his ignorance in both where to find scientific literature and missed a catch phrase of a very American icon known as Bugs Bunny. Do you have something against Bugs Bunny?
By the way, I also used a long list of literature. What have you done?
So Mr. Wilson, how about you go and find some nice scientific evidence from real scientists telling how exactly the DTaP is more dangerous than diphtheria, pertussis and tetanus. Be aware that pertussis kills about a dozen babies a year in the USA, and due to a large outbreak of pertussis in the Northwest several kids were told to not attend a tournament. Also, look up what happened with diphtheria after Russia's medical system broke down a few years ago (here is a hint: you are not going to find the information at Generation Rescue). Also, there is no such thing as herd immunity with tetanus.
Posted by: HCN | July 10, 2008 7:19 PM
I think that Mr. Wilson meant to say that he's an "indigo" just like his clown friends who write for "Generation Rescue" and the "Age of Autism" blob.
Posted by: Name that color | July 10, 2008 7:23 PM
I think it illustrates just how bad science reporting has become when "Inconclusive either way" is presented as being "Both sides have equal evidence".
Now, even ignoring that some of the evidence presented by Steve is incorrect, we are still left with this odd idea that the science is somehow equal, just because some people question the mainstream studies.
The sort of people who are questioning the studies that have found no link are the sort of people who are financially, emotionally and ideologically opposed to the idea that there is not a link between vaccines and autism.
They would 'question' the studies no matter how well they were conducted, so the fact that people who are overwhelmingly irrelevantly educated or sparsely experienced think there are 'serious questions' is for all purposes a meaningless observation, as it's exactly what anyone experienced in the matter would expect.
Even the amount of evidence for both sides is hugely unequal. On the one side we have people like HCN (a single person using what appears to be just the pubmed database - correct me if I'm wrong) who managed to pull up a whole list of directly relevant peer-reviewed and published studies in one afternoon. On the other, we have organisations like Generation Rescue who have struggled to make a shortlist of studies that *might* be read as supporting their viewpoint*, and have only managed to do so by going back over 10 years and by looking in less-than-reputable publications.
Unfortunetly for novices such as Steve, the questions surrounding the 'anti-vax' studies are far more serious (to the point where some of the authors are considered unreliable as court experts) than the the nit-picking questions launched at studies such as Thompson et al.
*and many, ironically, are just as valid under the 'genetic' hypothesis - it's almost as if they expect 'genetic autism' to cause just autism and not any of the biochemical 'oddities' they claim is associated with autism.
Posted by: EqualEd | July 10, 2008 9:39 PM
When Mr. Wilson actually bothers to put experts on T.V. and maybe let them speak, then we will stop the ad hominem attacks.
Obviously, logical discussions won't work. The controversy over vaccines and autism was put to bed by those doing the real research in respected peer reviewed journals.
My patients already listen to enough bogus claims that I have to spend time addressing. This kind of reporting is intolerable. How can we be expected to use good evidence as an argument when it is categorically ignored?
In science, if your view is defeated by good evidence from an unbiased, well designed trials (pleural), then you have to abandon your position. A quack is someone who does not.
When the quack in question has the power of the media behind him, all we have left is ad hominem attacks. But why bother with even ad hominem attacks. Nothing seems to matter. It does, however, give frustrated folks like myself a chance to vent on a forum of peers.
So, Steve, if you are so above the logical fallacy of the ad hominem attack, then rise above the numerous logical fallacies that you are putting on T.V. for my patients. Put some actual experts on T.V. and let them speak. PalMD offered to put you in touch with some. They are not hard to find. Go ahead. I dare you. I Double Dog Dare you.
Posted by: Blind Watchmaker | July 10, 2008 9:46 PM
I think it's about time that the non-pharma supported scientists and parents had their say. Big pharma has been controlling the media for too long. The only common denominator in all of the children in the united states is their vaccines, so why can't they be a contributer to the autistic epidemic? I had all my childhood diseases, I lived and have a great immune system. Which i am thankful for because it keeps me out of allopathic doctor's offices who are educated, bought and paid for by big pharma. Last checked this is the united states where people are allowed to speak freely and make up their own minds.
Just to mention, vaccine induced immunity is not passed onto to infants from their mothers, therefor opening up infants under 12 months old to be sucseptible to diseases the might have otherwise been protected from had their mother experienced the diseases wildly like most of us born in the 50's and 60's.
I applaud Steve Wilson to report on a subject so contraversial, and I hope he continues. I am tired of hearing the canned responses from doctors, CDC,AAP and FDA. Why would they ever have any scientific studies that would prove that they have been poisoning our children. Why would they ever prove that they are liable for the neurological and immunity damages they have caused in our children? Come on, haha, even I know that will never happen.
If you believe in vaccination, vaccinate, and good luck.
Posted by: karey | July 10, 2008 9:57 PM
Yes, EqualEd, I am just one person.
I can tell you what helps (something that would be obvious if you use PubMed): when you click on a link to get the abstract, to the right of the abstract is a list of other relevant links.
Also, one has to remember to not click on any papers where at least one of the authors goes by the name "Geier" (rhymes with liar). See one of their latest deconstructed here (first post of three):
http://epiwonk.com/?p=55
and here (total of 6 posts):
http://bmartinmd.com/2008/05/irb-approval-of-geier-autism-s.html
... we are only allowed two URLs here, so I will mung up the address: neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/109/
Posted by: HCN | July 10, 2008 10:07 PM
Do you mean pharma-controlled media folks like Steve Wilson?
Posted by: PalMD | July 10, 2008 10:07 PM
Karey - you're obviously selective over which canned responses you're willing to listen to. Steve's article was basic 'anti-vax' 101, that is, it brought nothing but the same old points to the table.
As an aside, your point about infant immunity seems confused - new-borns require passive immunity from thier mothers because they don't have their own. Any antibodies the mother produces is passed through breastmilk - vaccine induced or not. I could be wrong (my profession is not medicine after all) , however, so if you have any evidence that says otherwise, then present it.
Posted by: EqualEd | July 10, 2008 10:16 PM
karey said "I think it's about time that the non-pharma supported scientists and parents had their say."
I believe we have been participating this entire time. Or are you just painting everyone who does not agree with with the pharma-shill-gambit? See:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/09/the_pharma_shill_gambit_1.php
My interest is this has been going on for almost twenty years. That was when my first child was born who had neo-natal seizures. That child spent his first three years in and out of the hospital between seizures, croup and therapy sessions for his very severe speech disorder.
Because he had seizures he was not vaccinated for pertussis, at the time our county was having a pertussis epidemic (which still kills a dozen babies each year in the USA). It was also about the time measles came back to the USA with a vengeance and over 120 Americans died.
I spent his first few years making sure he stayed alive. When he was 14 years old he got diagnosed with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy with obstruction. He is first in line each fall for the flu shot. Last year for the first time he got a vaccine for pertussis with the Tdap.
I don't need clueless idiots like Steve Wilson to make it harder for parents of children like mine to live. Right now pertussis is coming back (http://www.kirotv.com/health/16844318/detail.html), along with measles and mumps because of idiotic reporting, and those who refuse to argue with science but only with ad homs, including the "pharma shill gambit".
Posted by: HCN | July 10, 2008 10:20 PM
Sorry, HCN, I meant that I presumed you used one database, not that you were just one person. As you know, searching across databases can be a good way of finding articles that might have slipped under the radar.
Posted by: EqualEd | July 10, 2008 10:24 PM
Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I was going to take what you wrote "(a single person using" and quip, "No, I'm married!" :-)
Posted by: HCN | July 10, 2008 10:28 PM
MuSTY is projecting again:
Man, you guys are even dumber than I thought. Who pays you? Which pharmawhore warehouse?
Posted by: Tariqistan | July 10, 2008 11:13 PM