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Mark Hoofnagle has a MD and PhD in physiology from the University of Virginia, and is now a general surgery resident. His interest in denialism concerns the use of denialist tactics to confuse public understanding of scientific knowledge.

Chris Hoofnagle is a recovering Washington, DC lawyer and information privacy law expert at UC-Berkeley Law School. Denialism became apparent to him while working on consumer protection laws in Washington. The Denialists' Deck of Cards is essentially a how-to guide for being an industry lobbyist.

PalMD is a practicing internist in the Midwestern United States. Aside from the great joy he finds in his family and his work, he likes communicating some of that joy to others. He has a special interest in the ways patients---and we are all patients at one time or another---are deceived by charlatans. He aims to change the world, one reader at a time. Previous writings can still be found here.

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In More Serious Evolution News...

Category: Wasting your time
Posted on: August 25, 2008 9:33 PM, by Chris H

Gawker published this gem today.

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Comments

Classic!

Posted by: Ste | August 25, 2008 10:45 PM

I have to agree with the kid's comment. Why would an ape have ancestors selected for lower intelligence?

Posted by: PalMD | August 25, 2008 10:47 PM

Not to be cruel, Bryce, but, uh... your mom.

Posted by: decrepitoldfool | August 25, 2008 10:58 PM

Yeah, because that erased comment was so valuable, Wally. The world must see it.

Wait, who am I replying to? There's nobody there, after all. Just a vile smell that the wind will soon blow away. And then the stench can waft back to its own blog and whine that the mean ol' atheists can't tolerate the light of his stimulating and challenging "I kno u ar but wut am I?!?!"

Posted by: minimalist | August 26, 2008 12:04 AM

I really like the Mickey analogy for selection, though- I didn't fully grasp the joke- it seems like it's just a "You're ugly, uggo." But the analogy the teacher used is quite clever, I think.

Posted by: Joe Fredette | August 26, 2008 12:11 AM

I kinda feel bad for the apes, honestly. Why is it such a bad thing to be related to them?

[imagining back before I learned about evolution]

Teacher: And so, natural selection has led to all of the species we see today. Humans, for example, evolved from...

Young Brian: [please be apes, please be apes, please be apes]

Teacher: apes!

Young Brian: YES!!!!! AWESOME!

Seriously, if I wasn't a me, I'd want to be a monkey anyway.

Posted by: Brian | August 26, 2008 12:57 AM

Not to get all hippy-dippy on you, but it's part of our removal from the natural world these days, I think. Most peoples' exposure to apes comes from nature documentaries or the zoo -- if even that, in the case of creationists, who probably aren't interested in watching anything but Jesus TV or going to their megachurch.

But anyway, you might tune in to a nature documentary and just see the lurid, audience-grabbing scenes of apes fighting, or hunting monkeys, and think of them as beasts.

Or you might dwell at the ape enclosure for about five seconds, long enough to see a gorilla jerkin' it, and think of them as beasts.

Me, I spent a whole lot of time at the ape houses when I went to the zoo, which my parents did at least twice a year. And the similarities to us just took my breath away. One incident stands out. A mama orangutan cradling their young, as the baby looked up at me with these amazing, piercingly human eyes. It just chilled me. The mama looked up too, and it felt like this moment of connection. I looked at them, and I saw us, millions of years ago.

Of course, any thoughtful person would look at the fighting, the hunting, and the jerking off and see humanity in that as well. But I think it all ties back to the denialist mentality, particularly the extreme fundamentalist creationist variety. They want to deny that these impulses exist within them, or they want to externalize them onto a bogeyman like "Satan", because it absolves them of any responsibility for having to improve themselves or treat their fellow man decently ("Not perfect... just forgiven!" is a slogan that's so emblematic of this self-absorbed mindset, and it bothered me even when I was a Christian.)

Posted by: minimalist | August 26, 2008 8:54 AM

that's my coffee > nose > monitor moment of the morning.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT | August 26, 2008 8:54 AM

I don't get the joke. What's so funny about this? Oh, wait...are you saying it's funny because he looks stupid? Hmmm, aren't we supposed to behave better than them?

Posted by: Paul | August 26, 2008 9:51 AM

Minimalist

If I saw the scene that you described in your third paragraph when I went to the zoo, I would be going "Damn! Just like me you're lovin that opposable thumb adaptation too. Comes in handy"

Posted by: azqaz | August 26, 2008 10:58 AM

No, Paul. It's funny because the kid who said "...there's no way I came from an ape." *LOOKS* like an ape. The knuckle-forward posture, the hunched-in head, the heavy brows... He looks like a gorilla.

This is called irony.

Posted by: LanceR | August 26, 2008 11:09 AM

Someone needs to post a pic of an ape next to a pic of that kid, sort of how they did on the bush or chimp website.

Posted by: mr P | August 26, 2008 11:37 AM

I always laugh when Christians find our primate ancestry heritage demeaning. Is it somehow more dignifying to have been made from dirt?

Posted by: Aaron | August 26, 2008 1:39 PM

Eat now?

Posted by: Anonymous | August 26, 2008 1:45 PM

I just realized: On top of it all, the poor brute looks like a Frank Quitely drawing.

Posted by: minimalist | August 26, 2008 2:19 PM

I laughed at the photo and quotation juxtaposition, too, but I think you should read the article to the end: even our ape-denying friend evolves a bit, too.

Posted by: Michael Paul Goldenberg | August 26, 2008 6:55 PM

This is a little too high school for me. I don't see the point in making fun of kid who actually might still learn something.

Besides, Brain pwned ur asses. He didn't come from apes. He came from a shared common ancestor of apes and humans. Bitches.

Posted by: Boris | August 26, 2008 8:15 PM

No, Paul. It's funny because the kid who said "...there's no way I came from an ape." *LOOKS* like an ape.

Hmmm, I'm not seeing it. Bryce clearly has his hands flat on the table, whereas a Gorilla would have its fingers curled under with its weight resting on its knuckles. Perhaps you all are pushing the analogy a little bit because you take pleasure in laughing at someone you perceive as being less intelligent than you. I'm not there with you.

I mean Bryce is clearly wrong, but it isn't his fault. He's been indoctricated by his parents, and peers. I feel sorry for the lad.

Posted by: Paul | August 27, 2008 9:30 PM

He didn't come from apes. He came from a shared common ancestor of apes and humans.

And that common ancestor was... an ape, by any reasonable definition. As are we, still.

Posted by: Nemo | August 27, 2008 9:45 PM

Hmmm, I'm not seeing it.
Whether you "see it" or not, that was the intent. The argument from ignorance is not valid, even when used on something as simple as "does this kid look like a gorilla?". You can choose to be offended on his behalf. You can choose to feel superior to all of us. That is your choice. But be honest about your motives rather than trying to spin some "yer laffin at the dum kid" line.

Posted by: LanceR | August 27, 2008 10:46 PM