Frankly, I am afraid to ask... : denialism blog

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Mark Hoofnagle has a MD and PhD in physiology from the University of Virginia, and is now a general surgery resident. His interest in denialism concerns the use of denialist tactics to confuse public understanding of scientific knowledge.

Chris Hoofnagle is a recovering Washington, DC lawyer and information privacy law expert at UC-Berkeley Law School. Denialism became apparent to him while working on consumer protection laws in Washington. The Denialists' Deck of Cards is essentially a how-to guide for being an industry lobbyist.

PalMD is a practicing internist in the Midwestern United States. Aside from the great joy he finds in his family and his work, he likes communicating some of that joy to others. He has a special interest in the ways patients---and we are all patients at one time or another---are deceived by charlatans. He aims to change the world, one reader at a time. Previous writings can still be found here.

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Frankly, I am afraid to ask...

Category: Altie Meds • Homeopathy • Woo
Posted on: June 10, 2009 10:55 PM, by Chris H

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Comments

Maybe they dilute it only half as many times? Or, wait.. Twice as many? Which one is supposed to make it "better" again? lol

Posted by: Kagehi | June 10, 2009 11:05 PM

So, instead of 10^-12 ppm, there is 10^-9 ppm of the "active" ingredient?

There are still more molecules of solution that passed through Bacon's urinary tract than are ones that are part of the claimed "active ingredient."

Ergo, reading Bacon is more likely to get you to choose the best medical care.

Maybe there is something to homeopathy?

Posted by: Tully | June 10, 2009 11:59 PM

Kagehi,

Whichever one you're willing to pay extra for.

Posted by: qetzal | June 11, 2009 12:00 AM

Two times zero = TWICE THE EFFECTIVENESS!!1!

Posted by: John S. | June 11, 2009 4:10 AM

Nothing is more effective! ;)

Posted by: Dunc | June 11, 2009 5:02 AM

To address Kagehi's question, I did an internet search on "high potency homeopathics". And indeed, it's the more dilute solutions that are thought to have higher potency! Read this nonsense: http://www.harmonyhomeopathy.com/safe.html. These guys advocate placing the most dilute solutions on the highest shelf, with a warning that they are only to be used under the care of a qualified (!) homeopath.

You know, you guys (rightly, in my opinion) criticize the US for some of the dumb things people believe over here, but I've found belief in homeopathy (and other quack-o-pathies) to be far more widespread in Europe.

Posted by: John S. | June 11, 2009 5:55 AM

Many years ago, there was an advertisement in the UK (and possibly elsewhere) for a proprietary headache pill: Nothing Acts Faster Than Anadin.

This presumably is what homeopaths believe.

The motto at the bottom of the pictured sign shows the quackorama claims to be an "integrative pharmacy". That's probably an accurate term, they don't do differential diagnoses! (Hey, a mathemedical jokette!)

Posted by: Sam C | June 11, 2009 6:41 AM

Either it's been succussed and diluted a dozen more times, or it has a secret (as in secret from the purchaser) active ingredient. Remember - 'ask us' is a method for selecting enthusiasts.

Posted by: llewelly | June 11, 2009 10:02 AM

"Homeopathics" and "potency" in the same sentence. I have to sit down for this.

Posted by: Marina | June 11, 2009 10:17 AM

Apparently, Hahnemann, late in his life, became increasingly paranoid about carrying remedies while travelling. He was afraid that the extra succussion would over-potentise the remedies, making them dangerous.

Posted by: Paul | June 11, 2009 10:59 AM

Well they couldn't very well offer lower potency homeopathics now could they.

Nowhere to go but up.

Posted by: NoAstronomer | June 11, 2009 11:07 AM

Doesn't all water have a little bit of poo in it? How do you get the poo out?

Posted by: MisterSir | June 11, 2009 1:11 PM

How about asking about an
electronic cigarette Tobacco companies are trying to keep it a secret...
shhhh

Posted by: johnny5 | June 11, 2009 1:14 PM

Homeopathic medicines are little packets of placebo... and maybe magic... like "isn't that sunshine just magical?" - "No, you moron, its fucking science."

Does weed qualify as homeopathic? If it is, it's working like a bitch... I'd kick placebo in the twat...

Posted by: Allie | June 11, 2009 1:18 PM

I always assumed that higher potency homeopathy was, you know, traditional medicine.

Posted by: AlanM | June 11, 2009 1:27 PM

""Homeopathics" and "potency" in the same sentence. I have to sit down for this."

ok ladies and gents, its time for me to explain the above... I'm pretty sure you're all very confused, so I will clear things up for you.

Not by choice, I worked for a homeopathic medicine company that supplied many different varieties of homeopathic medicines. One of our claims to fame was, our CoQ-10 (CoEnzyme Q-10) was the most potent of its kind. Now at the time, CoQ was a newer homeopathic ingredient that was starting to flood everywhere. I wanted to know exactly how these drugs could call themselves more potent. This is where they get you, its not necessarily a more potent pill as it is the way your body absorbs the actual ingredients. They have figured out ways to make your body absorb 300 percent more *insert pill ingredients here*. A lot of times, your body just passes the crap in most homeopathic medicines, however thanks to a trick used to fake your body into believing it needs the minerals/medicine, they can now call their stuff "more potent".

This is kinda the way they explained it to me, dunno how much of it is true or not, but this is how its done!

Posted by: Matt G | June 11, 2009 4:01 PM

I'm waiting for the quacks to start claiming that they dilute their placebos with newly-synthesized water, to avoid the influence of all that crap (figurative and literal) that has been dumped into the hydrosphere since the Earth cooled.

On coenzyme Q-10: my physician suggested it as a remedy for the muscle aches I had as a side effect of the simvastatin he'd prescribed to control my cholesterol. It ether works, in dosages of 100 mg per day, or it's an effective placebo. Of course, a single 100mg capsule would probably be enough to supply a homeopathic "pharmacy" for years, even if they were shipping truckloads of solution every day.

It would be mildly interesting to see how belief in homeopathy, which seems to have been based on a naive misinterpretation of immunity, correlates with anti-vaccinationism, and how believers in both kinds of woo handle the contradiction. Not that contradictions are any barrier to True Belief. Just look at the Biblical literalists. Do you have them in Britain? They seem to be a mostly American plague.

Posted by: Steve | June 11, 2009 4:39 PM

They're using heavy water for dilution (i almost wrote "delusion").

Posted by: No Body | June 11, 2009 5:31 PM

Homeopathy is wholly without empirical evidence.
That obvious statement given, I often wonder if the practitioners of naturopathic medi...shamanism mislabel a homeopathic remedy as a natural one. One instance might be giving out Valerian Root for sleeplessness. Doesn't valerian have gabaergic activity? As a chemical able to act upon neurochemistry, it could be twice as potent due to a little operation known as duplication. Possibly, the given supplements could be a stronger extract in the same volume container? Am I just dreadfully underestimating these people's stupidity?

Posted by: Voice of (Possible?) Dissent | June 11, 2009 6:18 PM

How about asking about an
electronic cigarette Tobacco companies are trying to keep it a secret...

You are still keeping to a highly adictive narcotic. I also hate to think what a constantly available, purified nicotine cigarette would do someone over a long period.

Posted by: Richard Eis | June 12, 2009 3:46 AM

Why not just buy the cheap stuff and dilute it with water when you get home?

Posted by: catgirl | June 12, 2009 12:52 PM

Don't forget to shake it real hardsuccuss it!

Posted by: LanceR, JSG | June 12, 2009 1:15 PM

THANKS

Posted by: fetish | June 13, 2009 6:32 PM

Yes, if the label falls off the bottle, how can I measure what the potency is?

Posted by: melior | June 14, 2009 6:12 AM

Now, EVEN MORE H2O !!!

Posted by: The Perky Skeptic | June 24, 2009 1:38 PM

Wow. I'm afraid to ask now to lol