The Federal court case over teaching intelligent design in Dover, Pennsylvania - potentially the most important legal case in this area since 1987's Edwards decision outlawed the teaching of creationism in public school science classrooms - begins on Monday (sidenote to Dan - no continuance as of today, so it looks like you owe me dinner). To help folks keep up with developments in the case, the NCSE has put together a webpage with links to news stories, briefs filed by both sides, expert witness reports, and much more. This page will be continually updated during the trial.
The ACLU also has a page up with the statements from all of the experts on our side in the case, but they include pictures of said experts. The picture of Kevin Padian cracks me up. It makes him look like a 20-something JC Penney catalog model. That must be a really old picture.
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You know what's curious, if you follow the link to the webpage there is another link to a list of the expert witnesses.
Nearly half of the witnesses for the IDers have either withdrawn or been withdrawn. Including Dembski. And I'm dying to know why.
I simply can't imagine Dembski backing out of such a juicy opportunity. I think I'll have to peruse the site for clues, but if anyone knows why fill me in!
Leni wrote:
The story is that the Thomas More Law Center (the group representing the school board) refused to allow Dembski, Meyer and Campbell to have their own attorneys present in addition to the TMLC attorneys during the deposition. There have been conflicting stories on this front, however. Dembski claims that the TMLC would let Meyer have his own attorney present, but would not let Dembski have one and that is why he pulled out. But Richard Thompson, the head of the TMLC, says that he wouldn't let any of them have their own counsel present.
Now, the true story? Frankly, I think the DI is trying to back away from the Dover situation as much as possible. They know that this could be their Waterloo and they know that the TMLC should never have taken the case in the first place. They wish that the Dover school board had just given in because this is not the ID policy they want to defend in court and they know that if they lose here, it could kill any chance of ID getting into schools in the future. They deny that completely, of course, but they would deny that whether it was true or not.
For my reporting on this subject when it happened, see here and here.
I probably do owe you dinner, but...
It ain't Monday, and the trial hasn't started yet. I'm hoping I lose, because I want it to go, and I'll gladly pay up if it does.
I don't know about the photo of Kevin Padian, but the Kenneth Miller photo isn't great. He's tremendously animated and altogether decent in person.
As a brand-new freshman in college I was taking his basic bio course (yep, despite his credentials he teaches intro bio). I overslept for his first exam. I ran in with approximately 10 minutes to go. In a total panic I ran up to him at the front of the lecture hall. I apologized and asked if I could take the exam.
"Wait outside.", he said in a stern, panic-inducing voice.
I sat outside the lecture hall for the next ten minutes, basically freaking out.
He walked out at the end of the exam period. Still looking rather severe, he strode up to me. "You can take the exam in my office on one condition", he said sternly.
In a total panic, I responded, "Yes sir, of course".
His condition? "Tell me how the heck you slept through an 11 o'clock exam", he said while laughing.
For a moment I was too shocked to respond. After a minute or two, I was able to force response past my own nervous stutter. I had stayed up all night studying. He laughed again and told me to follow him. Professor Miller let me take the exam in his office. To this day, I am still amazed at the decency and kindness he showed to a terrified college freshman in a basic bio course.
I like Haught's point that he would actually feel that his religious sensibilities were violated if ID were taught in schools. He's certainly not the only one who feels that way, but that viewpoint is not one that seems to come up often. There are a lot of different ways in which ID could appear theologically insulting, most notably (to me) that it appears to entail God choosing capriciously to violate the natural laws that he supposedly created! Points such as this are useful because they highlight the fact that it's not just "god-hating" atheists who are fighting against having children taught ID-- it is people (whatever their religious beliefs) who want actual science taught in science classes, but also people who have a (legitimate, I think) gripe that teaching ID is NOT necessarily more supportive of the freedom of religious expressiono than refraining from teaching it.
Ed wrote:
Woops.
Gretchen wrote:
Yes, and this calls to mind my friend Howard Van Till's argument based on what he calls "fully gifted creation". He believes that God created the universe with the full capacity to bring forth life and that he did such a good job of it that he didn't need to continually tinker with it and violate his own physical laws in order to make sure that it went the right way. So from his perspective, biological ID posits a weak and limited God who was incapable of getting it right the first time.
My favorite so far is this quote from today's Boston Globe--
"Dr. John West of the Discovery Institute, which sponsors research on intelligent design, said the case displayed the ACLU's ''Orwellian" effort to stifle scientific discourse and objected to the issue being decided in court. 'It's a disturbing prospect that the outcome of this lawsuit could be that the court will try to tell scientists what is legitimate scientific inquiry and what is not,' West said. 'That is a flagrant assault on free speech.' "
I have to assume that West is suggesting that he is one of those "scientists" that will be told that what he 'believes' to be true is not "legitmate scienctific inquiry." I can't imagine why he would think that??
spyder-
Interesting timing, I just posted something about that ridiculous quote. When they must resort to telling such blatant lies, it's obvious that they're really in a panic over Dover.
G. cuvier at September 24, 2005 02:07 AM
As a brand-new freshman in college I was taking his (Kenneth Miller's) basic bio course (yep, despite his credentials he teaches intro bio).
A casual remark: It's been a long time since I was in University, but I found that some of the best teachers were significantly credentialed. They obviously loved teaching neophytes, possibly to get those neophytes interested in the subjects that they loved so well.