Dispatches from the Creation Wars

The Real Dave Fafarman Revealed

Well folks, the mystery has been solved once and for all. And – surprise, surprise – Larry is lying through his teeth. Here’s what he had to say on his blog when someone told him that I had traced the IP addresses and found that the 2nd Dave came from his IP address:

I don’t know if Ed Brayton said that, but if he did, he is full of shit.

For starters, Ed Brayton could be lying, and being the lousy scumbag he is, this is a strong possibility. But even if he is not lying, he is still full of shit. I use dial-up service, and my computer’s local IP address changes every time I log on to AOL, but my brother and I possibly share the same AOL proxy with the same IP address.

Bzzzt. Thank you for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts for you. I can prove it all with the help of a little screen capture program, the ARIN whois utility and an email from the real Dave Fafarman. You see, Dave Fafarman really is a member of the NCSE, so they had his email address. One of my friends in the NCSE office emailed Dave and put him in touch with me. Dave confirmed that he did indeed write the first comment under the Typekey username DaveFxxx, but did not write the comment with the Typekey user name Dave Fafarman.

As I said this morning, I checked the IP addresses for the two and compared them to the IP address Larry used before he was banned and they were the same. And since Larry is now calling me a liar, let’s put the proof out there for all to see and expose who the real liar is. Here is a screen capture of the Movable Type data for the first comment, from the real Dave Fafarman:


And here is the data for the second comment, with the Typekey name Dave Fafarman, the fake Dave:


And here is the data from two old Larry comments from January and February. First one:


And second one:


Notice that the IP addresses for the fake Dave and the two Larry comments are identical – Now, take a look at the ARIN whois information for that IP address and you’ll see that, contrary to Larry’s claim, this number is not a dynamic IP address:


And now look at the ARIN whois information for the real Dave’s IP address:


Notice that Larry is on AOL, while Dave is on SBC. And Larry’s IP is not portable, while Dave’s IP is. And guess where the email from the real Dave came from? Yep – SBC, not AOL.

So here’s the bottom line: when Larry said that someone was impersonating his brother on my blog, he was lying. But then he made it come true by impersonating his brother himself, lying to make his real brother look like a fraud. And then when I caught him by looking up the IP addresses, he again lied and claimed not to be the impersonator. When he said his brother could be on the same IP address as him, he was lying. When he said that his IP address changes every time he dials in, he was lying. That’s a whole lot of lying, and all for the sole purpose of covering up the fact that his brother was telling the truth. Seriously, Larry – get a freakin’ shrink.

Update: For those of you who think that perhaps Larry is not necessarily the person impersonating Dave on my blog using the “David Fafarman” typekey account, you need only look at this post on Larry’s blog. In it, he reprints a comment he tried to leave here but was blocked (because I banned that typekey account when it was proven that it wasn’t the real Dave). The only way that Larry would know that the fake Dave comment was blocked is if he is the fake Dave. Game, set, match – is there a therapist in the house?


  1. #1 Miguelito
    May 25, 2006


    Nicely done.

  2. #2 BigDumbChimp
    May 25, 2006


    Man, reading his blog is a journey into the mind of a very definitely egotistical, more than likely mentally deranged blowhard.

    It’s entertaining and disgusting at the same time.

  3. #3 Ed Brayton
    May 25, 2006

    Yes, I think all this just shows how deeply disturbed Larry really is. This is, quite literally, insane behavior.

  4. #4 Reed A. Cartwright
    May 25, 2006

    Of course an AOL user other than Larry could have impersonated the second Dave. On PT I had a hard time telling Larry’s incarnations from other AOL users using just the IP.

  5. #5 John Cercone
    May 25, 2006

    I am tempted to say that now I have seen everything.

  6. #6 danamania
    May 25, 2006

    that IP larry is using does seem to be an AOL proxy, not his own IP address on whatever service he’s using. Here I get:

    $ host domain name pointer cache-ntc-aa09.proxy.aol.com.

    I don’t know how AOL proxies are allocated to different users, whether it’s done by POP location, or by user etc – but it’s plausible Larry’s real IP does change regularly but he’s always using the same AOL proxy. The real Dave not using AOL however still puts much doubt on his claims.


  7. #7 VisualFX
    May 25, 2006

    He he he he. Nice work Ed. Caught another Christian fundy lying. Gotta love the irony.

  8. #8 W. Kevin Vicklund
    May 25, 2006

    Of course an AOL user other than Larry could have impersonated the second Dave. On PT I had a hard time telling Larry’s incarnations from other AOL users using just the IP.

    Good theory, but Larry has likely provided evidence to refute on his blog – he claims to have been forwarded a comment made by the AOL Dave that has been held up by the moderator. That means he is at least complicit in the postings of AOL Dave.

  9. #9 steve s
    May 25, 2006

    Surely ed has some evidence that Dave Fafarman is Dave Fafarman, besides he has a non-Larry IP?

  10. #10 Ed Brayton
    May 25, 2006

    Of course. I have an email from him, from the same email address that is on the NCSE rolls.

  11. #11 sdanielmorgan
    May 26, 2006

    Please stop giving this guy the time of day. You have more important things to convey to us than another idiot garnering attention the only way he can — not through good writing [as you do], or pithy commentary [ditto], but shenanigans.

  12. #12 Bill C
    May 26, 2006

    Ed Brayton has the Dave, non-Dave situation completely figured out. Larry has now posted a new message claiming to have come from Dave on his site. Anyone reading it will quickly see that it is Larry’s work. I posted on his site twice and he now has answered that he talked to his brother and that Dave said “Who the hell is this Bill Carter?” The real Dave knows who I am.

    I have known both Dave and Larry for over 50 years and am in nearly daily phone contact with Dave although we live more than 400 miles apart. I live about 5 miles from Larry but have not been in contact with him since his insanity became too hard to take. I don’t have Dave’s patience.

    The crazyness shown on his blog is quite mild compared to what one would witness in person. He is quite convinced that the world that he sees is just an illusion and that the rest of us are in on the gag. He is furious that we won’t admit this.

    I believe that his problem has been made worse by a few family members (not Dave) attempting to humor him. When he says something outrageous, it should be treated as such. On the other hand, some of the comments that he has received on his blog seem only to be the product of viciousness. While he continues to self-destruct, the sharks seem to be circling, having smelled the blood in the water.

    It is hard not to lose patience with him. When he answers only with insults and personal attack, it is difficult not to answer in kind. I have been far less successful in resisting this than has Dave. It is painful to watch an old friend deteriorating so publicly. At the same time, I can’t help checking into his blog now and then to be amazed by what happens next.

    I guess what I am asking is that others exhibit more patience with Larry than I have been able to show him.

  13. #13 Raging Bee
    May 26, 2006

    This has been absolutely hilarious, but like even the slowest of slow-motion train-wrecks, it has to end sometime; and now seems to be as good a time as any. Thank you, Ed, for the infotainment/comic relief, but I think it’s best, having exposed the madness of one creationist, to leave him to his fate (and his far-more-patient family) and find someone more consequential to ridicule.

    Have you heard from Larry Caldwell lately? How about William Gibbons?

  14. #14 sdanielmorgan
    May 26, 2006

    Even better than Caldwell or Gibbons, how about Robert “Idiot of the Month” J. O’Brien? He’s apparently still here at UF, but never took me up on the invitation to drop by the lab for coffee and chat.

    His latest post (no link provided – if you need a kick, google “huperborea”) is of “the liberal god”, who dons a dunce hat and says, “I don’t punish anyone! I’m a hip god!”

    Gotta love it.

  15. #15 Jim Lippard
    May 26, 2006

    Just FYI, IP address portability doesn’t have any bearing on the investigation here (which is otherwise excellent).

    When a registry says that an IP block is “non-portable”, that means it is used for assignment to customers who cannot take those addresses with them if they change providers, but must renumber. If you purchase your own block of IPs directly from a regional Internet registry such as ARIN, then you can take them with you from provider to provider without renumbering. This is most common for entities that need to be multi-homed (have multiple providers simultaneously) and have a sizable number of IP addresses–you can’t as an individual go buy a single IP address from ARIN and have your ISP let you use it.

    In this particular case, the non-portable block of addresses is an old Netscape IP block that belongs to AOL (since it acquired Netscape).

    BTW, I concur that it’s best to not give attention to the mentally ill on the Internet.

  16. #16 Bill C
    May 26, 2006

    As much as I would like to end this, Larry, in addition to posting under his brother’s name, is now posting under my name, Ed Brayton’s name, and also the name VoiceInWilderness, one of his tormenters. I am mentioning that here where an identity can be checked, so that someone would not think that I am actually posting the crap that so clearly has Larry’s handwriting all over it.

  17. #17 Dave Fafarman
    May 28, 2006

    There goes Bill, telling tall tales again.

    He claims to have known Larry and me for “over 50 years”.

    Bill is a Big Liar.

    … 😉

    Actually, I got to thinking and it appears that we could celebrate the 50th anniversary of our friendship later this year. We’ll have to think of something appropriate.

    It might include getting Larry to recover and join us. Bill says that can’t happen. So far he appears to be correct.

    I’m resisting the temptation to put a wager on this.

    (Incidentally, I keep reminding myself to STOP feeling sorry for myself about being dragged through a public spectacle against my will. Happens to other people all the time.)


    — Dave

  18. #18 Dave Fafarman
    May 30, 2006

    Ed, you lying scumbag, this is the REAL Dave Fafarman, Larry’s brother, again. The fake Dave and Bill Carter are probably just your own inventions. The reason why I am posting this comment is that some people do not believe that I know how to get around your bans.

  19. #19 Bill C
    June 1, 2006

    Larry is continuing to deny that the real Dave is the real Dave and is having an active discussion with the imaginary Dave on his blog. At the same time, he is calling the real Dave and demanding that he stop posting.

    Very little is being posted on his blog about the title subjects of his threads. The little that is has degenerated into ’tis, ’tis not exchanges. The majority of the posts, regardless of the thread’s title, are about Larry and his irrationality and hypocracy.

    Does anyone have a clue as to what can be done to help him? It would appear that without his help, little is possible. As far as he is concerned the problem is not with him. It is with the people who fail to recognize that he is the Emperor of France.

  20. #20 Ed Brayton
    June 1, 2006

    Certainly no one here can do anything to help Larry, who is clearly mentally ill. His own brother tried to help him and, in return, Larry lied about him. That suggests that he is probably well beyond help at this point. Frankly, I just dropped the whole subject when it became clear how far the guy would go in fostering his delusions. We casually refer to people as being “nuts” and “insane” all the time, but his behavior over the last couple weeks has shown that Larry genuinely is mentally ill; it isn’t sound sport to agitate the clinically insane.

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