Dispatches from the Creation Wars

In what has become a yearly event, Pat Robertson has offered his 2007 ~~predictions~~ prophecies, direct from the mouth of God himself. Last year he predicted that a tsunami would hit the US coast in 2006; didn’t happen. But this year, he’s upping the ante:

In what has become an annual tradition of prognostications, religious broadcaster Pat Robertson predicted Tuesday that a terrorist attack on the United States would result in “mass killing” late in 2007.

“I’m not necessarily saying it’s going to be nuclear,” he said during his news-and-talk television show “The 700 Club” on the Christian Broadcasting Network. “The Lord didn’t say nuclear. But I do believe it will be something like that.”

I love that. “The Lord didn’t say nuclear.” You’ve gotta feel bad for Jesus; first he’s crucified and how he has to spend his weekends chatting with Pat Robertson. Isn’t it time for the suffering to end? And why would any sane person take this buffoon seriously?

Comments

#1 J-Dog
January 4, 2007

So, does the Department Of Homeland Security arrest Pat Robertson, or Jesus for threatening to attack the USA?
A little alone time at Gitmo might be good for Pat.
#2 kehrsam
January 4, 2007

I’m guessing Pat had this in mind. It was northern Japan, not the US, but whoa! 18 inches!

http://www.wtkr.com/Global/story.asp?S=5683240&nav=menu78_1
#3 Alan B.
January 4, 2007

I’m guessing Pat had this in mind. It was northern Japan, not the US, but whoa! 18 inches!

No, it’s worse than that. From the AP:

Robertson on Tuesday cited last spring’s heavy rains and flooding in New England as partly fulfilling the prediction.
#4 Matthew
January 4, 2007

The sick part is that he actually has to hope this happens, so he doesn’t look like an idiot at the end of the year.
#5 ChuckC
January 4, 2007

“why would any sane person take this buffoon seriously?”

No sane person does.

“So, does the Department Of Homeland Security arrest Pat Robertson, or Jesus for threatening to attack the USA?”

That depends on who Dembski reports to them.
#6 Joel H
January 4, 2007

kehrsam, that earthquake did actually cause a tsunami all along the West Coast. Granted, you probably couldn’t tell it apart from the normal wave activity, but it did get up to almost two meters in places….

http://wcatwc.arh.noaa.gov/previous.events/11.15.2006/11-15-06.html
#7 Martin Wagner
January 4, 2007

But the fact is, God did actually talk to Pat. We got the phone transcripts.
#8 nj
January 4, 2007

And why would any sane person take this buffoon seriously?

HEY! My mother-in-law takes him seriously!

Oh, wait…
#9 Chris Clayton
January 5, 2007

I love these guys. When it suits their purposes, the Bible is absolutely, literally infallible. Except, of course, when it gets in the way of what they want to do. Has anyone ever pointed out this passage to Pat? Deuteronomy 18:

“Let there not be found among you … a fortune-teller, soothsayer, charmer, diviner, or … one who … seeks oracles from the dead. Anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD”.

Ok, Pat. Glad to see your devotion to scripture. (And making yourself an “abomination” puts you in the same category as the gays. Deal with it.)
#10 DuWayne
January 5, 2007

Chris Clayton -

Actually, that doesn’t apply, when one is talking to God. Prophecy would be excluded because it is from God, not the devil, as it were. In fact, prophecy is included in the gifts of the spirit, Paul talks about in 2 Corinthians 12-14.

It all makes perfect sense when you think about it. Oh, and just ignore the second half of chapter 14, where it talks about putting women to death, for speaking out in church. . .
#11 Chris Clayton
January 5, 2007

Hi, DuWayne -

Bear in mind that I’m not one of anyone’s Faithful, but it would seem to me that if you claim you’re talking to God, you’d better be 100% accurate. *Any* error or failure, and Pat has lots of errors to his credit, would indicate you’re not hearing infallible information, and so Deuteronomy’s prohibition should apply, at least to those who claim the book is literal and inerrant. (FWIW, most of the translations of 2 Corinthians that I’ve looked at only include “signs and wonders”, not prophecy.)
#12 DuWayne
January 5, 2007

Chris Clayton -

I am, kind of. I’m a Christian, though I don’t believe in the biblicaly described God. I do go to church however, and while I had several years off, I grew up in mostly fundy churches.

I have heard it argued that one should always be very careful when they claim to be speaking for God. I have even heard people claim that Johns admonishment not to change any of the words of Revelations or misrepresent it, encompass all prophecy. Even/especialy those which God gives a person directly.

FWIW, most of the translations of 2 Corinthians that I’ve looked at only include “signs and wonders”, not prophecy.

This is part of why I just can’t believe in the God described by that book. There are a lot of things in that have very different meaning and connotations, depending on the version you read. Considering how much of it was put together by governing bodies, who had every interest in controling and managing the population, it doesn’t go far as a definitive guide to life.

In some translations it says prophecy and many churches that don’t even use those translations, teach that’s what Paul meant.
#13 Nicole Hadley
January 6, 2007

Okay- DuWayne- and Chris? “I’m a Christian, though I don’t believe in the biblically described God.” News for you- then you’re not a Christian. You don’t get to pick and choose from the Bible the parts that work for you and what you’d rather not have to live up to… And as far as the “God described by that book…” and the rest of the ignorant and VERY misinformed views you both have of the Bible, what it means and where it came from- I highly suggest you try talking to a Calvary Chapel pastor, from Chuck Smith’s back ground and knowledge… or Chuck Missler- or even my husband- who can answer any possible question you have about the “God from ‘that’ book.” My husband is a pastor and can explain any “history” or seeming biblical discrepency you may think you have found… Let us know if you’re up to talking to or emailing him… although you’re right- prophesy has to be accurate 100 percent of the time- there ARE INDEED prophesies from the Bible that have come true… many TO THE DAY- and having to do with Israel and Revelations that would BLOW YOUR MIND if you… think you can hang in a real discussion with a real pastor.
#14 Ed Brayton
January 6, 2007

think you can hang in a real discussion with a real pastor.

Ah, pious bravado. How amusing.
#15 Nicole
January 6, 2007

Actually- just trying to throw down with you big boys Ed. Averting the intent of the statement duly noted. Hell, for those who end up there, will be anything but amusing. So no piousness or bravado- only the stone- cold truth that the Bible has prophesies pertaining to Jesus, Israel and the book of Revelation that have come true- and are unfolding every single day on CNN…(TRULY amazing)And I would bet my right arm that people who are trite, annoyed, disinterested or oblivious would be truly stunned if they were aware of them and what it says…

I have only a concern for those who truly have not been introduced to THE GOD, Jehova, YAHEW, Jesus CHRIST (Christ means Messiah in Greek- ‘Christos’ for the ‘Christians’ who aren’t aware they’re named for Jesus the Messiah of THE Bible.) I reiterate the challenge to anyone with real questions, seeming discrepencies or interest in true and unfolding prophesy to check out Chuck Smith, Chuck Missler or the nearest Calvary Chapel church that can answer to those questions. Ask about the 70th week of Daniel prophesy… That’s all… just good old fun “book lernin!” Sometimes those on the “high hair channels” can be a bit off putting- for various reasons…
#16 doctorgoo
January 6, 2007

I had to search, but is this the Chuck Missler you’re talking about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Missler

Hmmm… a plagiarizer… but as long as he’s doing God’s work, does it make it okay?

But anyhoo… for a more nuanced reason why Robertson’s non-stop prophecies are bunk, I recommend Neufeld:
http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=502
#17 Gretchen
January 6, 2007

So what nutjob web site did you find Ed’s blog linked from, Nicole?
#18 DuWayne
January 6, 2007

Nicole Hadley -
News for you- then you’re not a Christian. You don’t get to pick and choose from the Bible the parts that work for you and what you’d rather not have to live up to…

I sorry that you dislike the way I describe my beliefs. Christian, by far, is the most accurate description of what I believe and practice. While I do not believe in the God described in the bible, I choose to live my life in accordance with the teachings of Jesus. I am, in effect, a follower of Christ. I also believe that it is probable that there is a God that intervenes in my life. I do not and could not, however, worship a god of death and damnation. I think there is a God though. I even think it’s likely that it intervenes in my life. As such, I am happy to worship that God.

And as far as the “God described by that book…” and the rest of the ignorant and VERY misinformed views you both have of the Bible, what it means and where it came from- I highly suggest you try talking to a Calvary Chapel pastor, from Chuck Smith’s back ground and knowledge… or Chuck Missler- or even my husband- who can answer any possible question you have about the “God from ‘that’ book.

I have spoken with many pastors, read many pastors, listened to many pastors. I have spoken with a large variety of Christians, of varrying degrees of theological background. I have read the bible many, many times – in several translations. Where I have come, thus far in my journey, has been hard fought, from every direction. I did not come here because it was the easy route, nor because it is comfortable. I am here because it makes sense to me, because of my life expierience and study.

think you can hang in a real discussion with a real pastor.

I do so, on a regular basis.

I would mistrust your husband though, married to such a prideful person. One who would just assume that my beliefs are the fault of any of the ministers I have talked with about them. Or even the fault of my pastor. You assume the worse about other people, rather than just laying your distaste with me alone. Presuming to have the first clue about who I am and how I came to be here. You are nearly offensive in you ignorance.
#19 Nicole
January 7, 2007

Doctorgoo- I’m curious- can you explain to me what you mean when you call Chuck Missler a plagiarizer? Seriously- I’m curious what that’s about.

And for DuWayne- Wow- did I hit a nerve!? I truly apologize if I hurt your feelings. That was not my intention. I also assure you (HUGE LAUGH)I am the LEAST prideful person you would ever meet. Funny how that’s the first place EVERYONE goes if suggested they might have missed something in the Bible. I don’t assume the worst about anyone- nor do I have distaste with you whatsoever. I presume nothing about you or who you are- I too- did not come here “easily” and where I am was also “hard fought from every direction.” I’m sure you’d be as surpised as I.

Jesus calls us to be a witness- not an expert. Having “read the bible many many times” and being a “follower of Jesus’s teachings”- how can you say this and miss that Jesus Himself taught he was God!? You’re a follower of Jesus teachings- but also say you can’t believe in a God of death and damnation? Having read the bible you would know that Jesus teaches on hell more than any other subject whatsoever! Then you have truly missed IMPORTANT info in your several passes through the bible.

It is Lucifer’s greatest goal- to convince people there is no hell- or to cause them to despise a “god” that would create one. God…JESUS…truly is a God of love and compassion, and DIED for you to prove it. When Lucifer rebelled and was cast out of heaven- taking a third of the angels with him (demons) God created a little something in the garden called (man) and it was an OBJECT lesson, so to speak… and all creatioin and all angels having seen the battle in heaven lean in to WATCH what God is doing… and he uses the Jews and Israel to reveal everything, and explain it all. Having read the Bible several times- you would know that Jesus arrives on the MT of Olives TO THE DAY that it was prophesied he would as Messiah? Only- just as prophesied- the Jews missed it- and as prophesied to the day- he was hung on a cross. God- zipped up a human suit and then died on a cross so that we could indeed- have interaction with God in the Holy Spirit. You would know that Jesus was the real “sacrificial lamb” representing those that the Jews had been sacrificing in their tabernacle for centuries. Only now- because of Jesus-no one has to do that anymore…

But the Jews still wait for Messiah- (and they are special to God and continue to be used in this lesson of love and patience) The Jews DO want to rebuild their tabernacle to RESUME TEMPLE SACRIFICES. The fact that there is an Israel on the planet- was prophesied to the DAY- the day Ben Gurion declared in May 1948 “We call our nation…ISRAEL!!!!”

And when Israel indeed DOES rebuild their temple (Which is in the planning RIGHT NOW as part of the ROAD MAP FOR PEACE)and resumes their temple sacrifices- well… you would know what Jesus says about that seven year period. Jesus and God are the same- and if you truly want to know God- Satan knows you have to accept that- and embrace it- and you’re right- hell and damnation SUCK… But IT WASN’T CREATED FOR US!- it was created for the third of the demons who were cast out of heaven for rebelling against- a loving God. It is Lucifer who was prideful- and he knows he gets his ass kicked in the end- so he wants to take as many of us out as he can… by getting us to believe there’s no hell- or hating the God who made one… but hell was not made for us. Only people who CHOOSE hell over God go there with the demons.

And the FACT is- GOD DOESN’T SEND ANYONE TO HELL… we have to literally step over Jesus’s bloody- sacrificed-crucified body to get there- simply by saying- “Yeah- I heard-I read that he died on a cross for me- but this Jesus? God? I don’t want Him- or what He has to offer… People have a choice- as all REAL, TRUE love HAS to have a choice…Doesn’t it? God is NOT a God of death and damnation. He is the God of everlasting life. All we have to do is CHOOSE it. Free will. God weeps and prays we’ll each choose HIM. Anyone who hears of Jesus (GOD), that he was the ultimate blood sacrifice- and rejects it- well… that’s what Satan wants. Is it so hard to consider if it were true- God is all the Bible says- and created everything- that we need someone to intervene for us on this level as we would not be able to BEAR the presence of such power and energy? That’s what Jesus is- and the Holy Spirit which guides us when we ask for the gift of life Jesus paid for.
I have no distaste for you… God is Jesus. Satan lost- and he knows it- and when you see the Jews rebuilding their temple on the temple mount in Israel, and if you see them resume sacrifices- I pray to God that you’ll remember this small, stupid night and realize you need Jesus- GOD- and ask Jesus truly into your life because he DIED for you- and ALL you have to do- is ask for the gift He’s offering. Those who ask this- want this- recieve this- those people don’t go to hell. If you realize that people have disapeared- no matter what it LOOKS like- the church was raptured- and then if you see the temple up WITH SACRIFICES in Israel- I pray to God you remember this conversation. I’m not prideful… I’m terrified for all the people who DON’T know Jesus is GOD-and died for each of us- and the prophesies that show how close we are to the seven year period when the sacrifices resume… And your response only scares me more… You would mistrust my husband for being married to me? Holy CRAP! And you say I presume to know YOU!!! You have no idea about me- but I’m willing to look like an idiot because I care about you having a real relationship with God. And it’s obvious (I’m so sorry but it is) that you truly don’t know anything whatsoever about these HUGE basic biblical concepts and prophesies… and rather than be curious or interested-you attack me personally, listing your resume of the several times you’ve read the bible and all the translations- and call ME ignorant!
What if you’re wrong… If I’M wrong- SO WHAT? I get picked on and ridiculed with verbal tomatoes on a blog… but if YOU’RE wrong- and I’m right… if there is a hell- and Jesus is God and died for you just so you would choose to believe and accept Jesus AS LORD and savior- because he’s God.. if you’re the one that’s wrong, well then you’d be pretty much screwed. That’s all. No pride- no distaste. As far as the Bible goes- you’ve missed some biggies. I know where we are on the timetable and it really, truly sounds like you’ve been sort of looking for God… and I just really really hope you find him. And you can make any trite response you might- I risk sounding like an idiot and getting assaulted verbally (as I should at this point taking up so much space) simply because I don’t know you- but I care- and I will be praying for you and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it. Well- my husband- (who’m you mistrust anyway) has smartly pointed out to me that I need to stop wasting my time with people who certainly want me to shut the hell up and leave them alone- and go to bed- so I will. But the bible says not one can say on the day of judgement that they didn’t hear about Jesus- and what He did for us- and knowingly make their own choice to reject the offer of eternal life- so I will at least be able to sleep tonight knowing I did the best I could. I just hope these are informed decisions- and it’s clear there’s much in the Bible you missed.
#20 doctorgoo
January 7, 2007

The christian occultist Nicole said:

Doctorgoo- I’m curious- can you explain to me what you mean when you call Chuck Missler a plagiarizer? Seriously- I’m curious what that’s about.

Are you incapable of clicking on the link to the Wiki article I provided? Or perhaps your reading comprehension skills are limited when you are exposed to something that proves your hero is a hypocrite?

I also assure you (HUGE LAUGH)I am the LEAST prideful person you would ever meet.

The ironic thing is that you don’t even realize how prideful you are. What makes you so sure that your (or Missler’s) interpretation of the Bible is better than any other?

A relatively quick read of Missler’s writings leads to this:
1. His teaching is more about “selling sensationalism” and “headline grabbing” than a sober reflection upon and presentation of sound doctrine.

2. His expressions for theological concepts reflect either a lack of genuine understanding of those concepts or (more likely) an overly flippant approach to the issues. An example from MinistryWatch: In his study on God’s sovereignty, Missler constantly refers to the free will of man as “the sovereignty of man.” He may only be underscoring a point, but this could be accomplished by means other than using an expression the meaning of which is technically heretical.

It’s as if Missler intentionally ignores the parts of the Bible he disagrees with in favor of parts that reinforce his particular world view. He’s a prideful hypocrite in the worst way. And if you, Nicole, are promoting him, then this makes you a hypocrite too.

Missler, much like Robertson, constantly twists the Gospel to spread lies. And this is the reason that most Christians distance themselves from them. Nicole, I recommend you do so also.
#21 Ed Brayton
January 7, 2007

Nicole-

I’m more than happy to have people come here and argue, but I can’t abide being preached at. Do you really imagine that there is a single person here who has not been told a thousand times that if we don’t believe in Jesus we’ll go to hell? Been there, heard it, didn’t find it convincing the first 40 million times I heard it and your 40 million +1 isn’t likely to do it either. If you have substantive arguments to make about anything I write here, feel free to post it. Any more preaching will simply get you banned.
#22 Nicole
January 7, 2007

doctorgoo and Ed-

Wow… I’m “stupid, prideful, annoying, physically incapable of link-clicking, have no reading comprehension skills- and have no IQ…” Oh yeah- and I’m a “hypocrite and don’t even know how prideful I am!” And I’M preachy and annoying?!!! Sorry Ed- I wasn’t aware you have been told anything about Jesus whatsoever- as in spite of doctorgoo’s theory- I am not an occultist nor am I psychic. Your warning about preaching is duly noted and my response was purely for DuWayne who addressed some of the more personal questions of God, Jesus and our place in it all. Sorry.

Back to the point from the beginning- this was the site that was discussing prophesy. Do you people just trade insults with each other and look for excuses to attack and discredit public Christian figures, or are you actually interested in discussing biblical prophesy? Yet when someone comes along with information you may not have seen-you attack (doctorgoo) and discredit it and me- before any possible information is relayed or argument made- with the typical accusation that in the very doing so- I MUST believe “My interpretation of the bible is better than ANY other!” Well- that puts me in a lose lose situation doesn’t it? If I say- “Well, yes, actually, I have something you might find interesting”- I’m a prideful, arrogant Christian who thinks I’m smarter than every one else!

It will surely fall into your trap when I say- yes- I have had teachers who actually know their Greek and Hebrew, and most important- the relevance of Israel and the Jewish people as the entire context of setting up the Bible and all prophesy therein. Maybe I do have interesting info you’ve never heard- but you conveniently shut it down, averted the exchange of information, dodged the subject and single handedly turned it all around by calling me prideful for even attempting a discussion about bible prophesy. Faster than Bob’s your uncle, I’m linked to Missler ridiculously with the fabrication that he’s “my hero” while you assasinate him with paragraphs that are so circular and empty that I need not bother opening my mouth about the point. And then I was linked to Robertson. Amazing.

It is obvious (now)that the discussion of prophesy was only an exersise in one-up-man-ship for the purpose of attacking any sort of Christian stance, or public figure related to prophesy at ALL. Overshadowing the attempt at any actual exchange of information on this subject.

My virue is safe doctorgoo- as I am not a follower of either Missler or Robertson- nor do I “promote” either. I thought I had entered into a discussion on prophesy- which would (silly me) discuss the inclusion of other people than Robertson who dally in it. I did indeed trespass- There was no argument whatsoever about real biblical prophesy as that was never the intent here was it? My mistake.
#23 Gretchen
January 7, 2007

There was no argument whatsoever about real biblical prophesy as that was never the intent here was it?

Correct. Pat Robertson is not the Bible, nor was he quoting the Bible in his “prophesy,” nor should we assume for a moment that if his prophesy is wrong, somebody else’s must be right. He is a nutter regardless of what holy text he subscribes to, as can be seen clearly here. The point of Ed’s post was simply to convey the ridiculousness for our bemusement and amusement. There you go.