Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
On Friday, Larry King Live had James Randi and alleged psychic Rosemary Altea on the show to discuss famous psychic Sylvia Browne's false prediction that Shawn Hornbeck was dead. Hornbeck is the kid who went missing in 2002 who was recently found again. His parents asked Browne to help them find their child and she told them he was dead. She also gave a wildly inaccurate description of the person who kidnapped him and apparently led the police on a wild goose chase to recover his dead body. Here's the transcript of the show (scroll way down).
True to form, the "psychic" on the show was evasive and refused to allow any testing of her claims to being a psychic. Most annoyingly, she kept referring to the "gift" of psychic powers and how some people use it "irresponsibly." And then she dodged repeatedly the question of whether she would submit to his million dollar challenge to prove her psychic powers. I'll post some of the transcript below the fold.
ALTEA: Yes, it's terrible. And I want to make something clear here. I am not here to debunk Sylvia Browne. I do not know Sylvia Browne. I don't know what her gift is like. We all make mistakes.Having said that, we all know also that there are in every profession, there are people who state that they are much more qualified than in fact they are. We get a quack doctor. That doesn't mean that the whole medical profession should be condemned for one quack doctor.
Basically what I'm saying is people do make mistakes. That's the first thing. Second thing is, there are many, many people out there who have incredible and beautiful gift -- and it is a gift.
L. KING: Sure.
ALTEA: It is a very rare gift. And we have that gift and we treat it with respect.
RANDI: Where are these people? That's my question. See the James Randi Educational Foundation offers a million dollar prize ...
ALTEA: Here we go again, James.
RANDI: Yes, we do go again.
ALTEA: We have been there, we have been this route you and I.
RANDI: Rosemary, we have been there repeatedly, that is very true.
ALTEA: We have.
RANDI: But why won't you take the prize? Simple answer, please.
ALTEA: We discussed this on the LARRY KING show the last time. You come up with a real plan and don't believe there's $1 million. I don't want to get ...
RANDI: Hold on. That's the first objection. That's the one everybody makes.
ALTEA: One second.
L. KING: One at a time.
RANDI: There is no $1 million.
ALTEA: One second.
RANDI: Now there is a million dollars. It is with Goldman Sachs in a special account awardable only for this particular purpose. So don't give me that.
ALTEA: OK. I'm not go into this discussion. We had this out before, James. My interests and my concern here is that people don't throw the baby out with the bath water. There is an incredible and rare gift. It does not matter to me, James, whether you believe it or you don't ...
RANDI: It's not whether I believe it, it's whether or not it is so.
ALTEA: If you will let me talk now, please. There are millions of people around the world who have had incredible evidence, and I think, Larry, the key is that, you know, I'm educating people all the time . In my first book I was talking about we have to be skeptical. People have to be skeptical.
RANDI: Sure.
ALTEA: What is happening when somebody goes on a show, they lost a child. The child has gone missing. And they ask somebody, a total stranger. She may be a celebrity but she's a total stranger to them, what happened to my son? Why are we buying into this kind of thing without evidence?
Sounds good, but then why does she refuse to provide that evidence? If she really has this "gift" then by all means show the evidence, take the challenge and show, under proper observational techniques, that the gift is real. If she did so, she would not only win a million dollars, she would help "educate", as she says she wants to do, millions of people on the validity of psychic powers. It would be an enormous boon to the notion that this gift exists to actually provide that evidence, and while she says people should demand evidence she refuses to provide it as anything other than uncheckable anecdotes.
Then they played a clip of Sylvia Browne on the Larry King show from earlier, explaining her "gift":
BROWNE: I just happen to be born with it.L. KING: Why you?
BROWNE: I don't know. It's the same thing ...
L. KING: when you get this channeling, what do you mean by channeling?
BROWNE: Channeling means I am like an open tube. What goes on with Sylvia is entirely different of what I get. I mean, Sylvia can have her own problems. But there's a side of me which is like a tube in which it just comes through.
L. KING: you see things about people?
BROWNE: I'm with the rest of them, I'm much more into the whole idea of God's goodness and the survival of the soul after death.
Apparently, her tube was blocked when it came to the Hornbeck case. And then it gets even better. They played a clip of Shawn's parents talking about how Sylvia Browne said she could tell them for - for a sizable fee:
L. KING: We are back with James Randi and Rosemary Altea. Shawn's mom and dad, Pam and Craig Akers, who appeared on this show talked with CNN's Anderson Cooper earlier this month about Sylvia Browne. Watch.(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Is it true she also offered to help for $700?
CRAIG AKERS, SHAWN HORNBECK'S PARENTS: Yes, we were told if he wanted to talk with her additionally, that we could at her normal standard fee.
COOPER: And that's $700 an hour?
C. AKERS: I believe that's what it was.
Browne's business manager denies that, but tell me which one has the incentive to lie, Browne or this kid's parents:
L. KING: Sylvia Browne's business manager send us the following, "Sylvia has never charged a fee to any law enforcement person, agency or any individual for her work on a missing person's case and has worked on hundreds of such cases over the years and only when asked by law enforcement with positive results. Sylvia is overwhelmed with happiness and gratitude to God that Shawn was found alive and well and grateful to all those responsible for finding him."Sylvia has also posted a message on her Web site if you want to go to that, sylvia.org about this matter.
James, who do you believe on this question of a fee?
RANDI: I don't know. It's pretty hard to say. Because Sylvia does get $700 over the telephone. She gets this kind of money to do a reading for people that lasts about 20 minutes. I have got several of them on tape and one of them went up on my Web site today, as a matter of fact.
That's a lot of money, Larry. That's the kind of money that anyone who want to make. But does she produce anything for it? Does she deliver anything? Remember, she agreed on this show many years ago to take the million dollar challenge. Then she said she could not find me. She does not know how to use a telephone book? What seems to be the problem here?
And after that when she found out how she could reach me she didn't reach me and has not been in touch with me since. Why?
Then he asked Rosemary how she did it. And this is classic:
L. KING: What do you see?ALTEA: What I see, the first thing that I do is I make a communication. I make a connection with somebody in the spirit world. That someone needs to be a member -- a family member of the person I'm giving a consultation to. Then once I begin to talk to that person, I'm asking that person to give me information, to give me evidence.
I mean, I'm seeing this person and I'm hearing this person and I'm asking them, please give me information, usually it's information that I couldn't possibly know. I will give you the briefest example, a lady yesterday called and I described her home that was on a man made lake. I described the house in detail. Even to the roofline the new terrace and plantings. Now ... L. KING: And who was telling you that?
ALTEA: Who was telling me that? Her mother was telling me that. So basically what I'm doing here, as I'm laying the groundwork. I'm laying the groundwork to show this person, the person I'm giving the consultation to, I'm laying the ground work to show her that I am actually really talking to someone in the spirit world who knows them very, very world. Can i just say one more thing, Larry?
L. KING: Quickly, yeah.
ALTEA: I don't know whether Sylvia Browne has a 15 or 20-minute consult, but I will tell you no one in their right mind, no medium would ever give a 15 to 20-minute consultation and expect to produce anything. You cannot. You cannot - you can do a two-minute something on the telephone as I have done on your show many times. But when you are giving a consultation and you're talking to people in the spirit world, you have to give that person at least 50 minutes to an hour. You cannot do it in less than that.
Really? Why? If you're actually in contact with someone in the "spirit world" who can give you this information, why can't it be done in 15 or 20 minutes, why would it require 50 minutes or an hour? She says you cannot do it in less than that, but why on earth not? It doesn't take an hour for someone in the "spirit world" to tell them about someone's house, or give them information. This is just completely irrational nonsense.
Then there's this amusing exchange:
CALLER: My question is, I have seen Sylvia Browne many times and I tried calling her phone number to make an appointment. And it is true, she does charge $700 for a half-hour. My question is, if this is a gift from God, which so many psychics claim it is, why do they charge so much?L. KING: James?
RANDI: Well, first of all, people have to make a living, Larry, we understand that and they should charge for their services. But only charge for the services if you actually produce something. If there are results, yes, it's worth $700 for a reading -- if it has results.
But Sylvia has so many dissatisfied customers, I have got a cupboard full of tapes sent by Sylvia to the customers who paid the $700 and they say in so many words she was wrong, wrong, wrong all the way down the line.
L. KING: Rosemary?
ALTEA: I agree. I totally - actually I'm amazed. I'm agreeing with Randi. If you don't get it right, if you can't produce, then you absolutely should not charge. And if I feel - and I begin all of my consultations by saying to somebody, if I confuse you in any way, if you are confused, please tell me. I do not want you getting off this phone wondering who on earth you have been doing. Tell me if you think I'm wrong. Tell me if you're confused.
L. KING: We should ...
ALTEA: Sorry?
L. KING: I said it should also be mentioned that Shawn Hornbeck's parents continued the search, continued looking for him and continued the quest. They did not just accept the fact that he was gone.
ALTEA: Thank goodness.
RANDI: And Larry, she sent the police to all kinds of places, too, and the police wasted their good time where they could have found the kid and could have done something useful. The police wasted their time.
ALTEA: I'm not sure about that, Larry. Because I think the law enforcement has got a little bit more common sense than to listen to things that they are really not sure about. Unless ...
RANDI: They listen to psychics ...
ALTEA: Unless a spiritual medium is giving evidence and that is the thing, giving evidence. And I think it's worth saying here, Larry, and this may sound a little harsh, what I'm going to say, but I think it's worth saying here people have to be more responsible. You can not go giving your power away to people like me. People see me on a TV show, they see Sylvia Browne on a TV show and they think they know us but they do not know us. We are strangers to them. And you do not go believing it just because we say so.
Wait until we give you that evidence. Wait until we can show you that we really are talking to people who are your family who have passed. Don't give the power away.
RANDI: Rosemary, will you take the test?
ALTEA: I'm not even going there, James. We did this before.
RANDI: Why not go there? It's a million dollars, Rosemary. Anyone can use a million dollars. Why won't you take the test?
ALTEA: I recall when Larry asked you where the million dollars was before you could not produce it.
RANDI: I cannot produce it because it was with Goldman Sachs. It's invested.
ALTEA: I will tell you something, James, this program is not about you. This program is about people being duped. It's about ...
RANDI: That's right.
ALTEA: You're right. But this program is not about you.
RANDI: It's about people being duped by people like you.
ALTEA: This is about people being duped, and this is about a very rare and a very special gift that has to be defended.
RANDI: Prove it. Prove it and get $1 million. Come on, Rosemary, will you take the test? Yes or no? It's a simple question.
ALTEA: You cannot say that because one person makes a mistake, everybody pays.
RANDI: I did not say that.
They never stop dodging.
Comments
Gaakkh - they keep saying "there's no million dollars". They can talk to the spirit world but can't understand the concept of an escrow account. I think Randi needs to have a photograph of himself taken with a huge stack of money, as a visual aid for them.
Posted by: decrepitoldfool | January 28, 2007 11:03 AM
It takes 50-60 mins because people on the "other side" talk very slowly and ramble; they never get straight to the point. Plus, it doesn't hurt that the "fee" is hourly. Overlaps nicely, doesn't it?
Posted by: Daniel Morgan | January 28, 2007 11:09 AM
I have shared custody of my 8 yr old son and 12 yr old daughter. My ex-wife is a believer in all this crap and more; i.e. ghosts, spirits etc. The kids have alot of questions. I tell them look for evidence. Something you can point to that's real, not just someone saying they saw this or that, but something they can prove or demonstrate. It's resulted in two very skeptical and inquisitive kids who are now giving their mother (and both sets of catholic grandparents*) fits. It really has taught them to question authority in a way that children of parents who share the same beliefs might not.
* my daughter rolled her eyes when she was told about transubstination. My dad got very annoyed at that.
Posted by: TomMil | January 28, 2007 11:10 AM
How do the police justify using tax dollars to employ a psychic in their investigation?
Posted by: Gretchen | January 28, 2007 11:51 AM
Way to go TomMil! That put a smile on my face. Kids make greaat skeptics if you can reach them before too much woo is planted in their heads.
Posted by: Don | January 28, 2007 11:52 AM
I do not know Sylvia Browne. I don't know what her gift is like. We all make mistakes.
Because saying, "Some people who don't have the gift pretend that they do" would open up too many cans of worms.
Posted by: Grumpy | January 28, 2007 12:50 PM
Someone, please tell me that when King said Browne had gotten "pretty close" on the description of the abductor that he was kidding. I mean, I know King is a flake who coddle's this sort of hokum, but "pretty close"? Browne's "vision" was dark-skinned, but not black, more like hispanic, with long black hair in dreadlocks and very very tall." About the only thing even close to that is "not black." That makes her guessing "pretty close."
Posted by: plunge | January 28, 2007 12:52 PM
Having said that, we all know also that there are in every profession, there are people who state that they are much more qualified than in fact they are. We get a quack doctor. That doesn't mean that the whole medical profession should be condemned for one quack doctor.
If you get a quack doctor, you report him to the AMA. They investigate, they revoke his license. If he continues to practice, he goes to jail for practicing medicine without a license.
You get a bogus psychic, to whom do yoo complain?
Full Facts Book of Cold Reading by Ian Rowland. Learn how the psychics do it.
Posted by: Mustafa Mond, FCD | January 28, 2007 12:58 PM
Why can't we sue these schmucks for false advertising? Is it legal to make claims about a service you're providing without being able to show some evidence that you can do what you say?
Posted by: K. Patrick Glover | January 28, 2007 12:59 PM
ALTEA: I recall when Larry asked you where the million dollars was before you could not produce it.
At that point, it would have been cool to see Mr. Randi roll out the million dollars in cash escorted by the obligatory armed guards and whatnot. Oh man that would have been sweet!
Posted by: 386sx | January 28, 2007 2:00 PM
I can see why her business manager was incensed, because indeed $700 /hour is not correct.
According to Sylvia Browne's own website:
So in fact she charges $1500 to $2250 /hr.
BTW...Chris is Sylvia's son, who also just happens to have the psychic gifts too. What are the odds! Maybe it's genetic.
Posted by: Dave S. | January 28, 2007 2:42 PM
"Is it legal to make claims about a service you're providing without being able to show some evidence that you can do what you say?"
It is if you use a disclaimer that your service is "for entertainment purposes only," which every psychic with half a brain does (which is evidence that even they know that it's bunk).
Posted by: Turcano | January 28, 2007 2:44 PM
Oh...and I love this part of her website...
Emphasis in original.
That's right kids. There are frauds out there. Be sure to get your readings from a real psychic.
Posted by: Dave S. | January 28, 2007 2:46 PM
Years ago I went to a "psychic" with my then wife and sister-in-law. I sat in the chair and did not move, nor did I give anything but yes or no answers as she fished for leads.
She didn't have a clue, was totally off in her "reading" and told my wife I was the hardest subject ever.
She, like all of them, are total frauds (although the tape of my reading was quite funny). Still didn't stop my beloved from swallowing that crap hook, line and sinker though... :-/
Posted by: Andrew | January 28, 2007 4:22 PM
So... this psychic's defense was that she couldn't find Randi? What, like she couldn't find Hornbeck?
Posted by: Skemono | January 28, 2007 6:50 PM
"Channeling means I am like an open tube...there's a side of me which is like a tube in which it just comes through."
See? Sylvia's very up front about the fact that her "gift" comes straight out of her ass. You just have to understand her colloqialisms and metaphors.
Posted by: kemibe | January 28, 2007 10:06 PM
Channeling means I am like an open tube.
Syvlia's a vacuum tube.
I loved the part when Altea told Larry: "Well, I'm not God. I'm not right all the time. I'd be scared if I was right all the time. Wouldn't you be scared if you were right all the time," etc. Who can believe a psychic pulling the "Waddayathink I am--psychic?" defence. What a crock.
Posted by: Kristine | January 28, 2007 11:29 PM
"Syvlia's a vacuum tube."
And like any vacuum, she sucks.
Posted by: James | January 28, 2007 11:44 PM
Randi is a hero of mine not just for whathe does but how he does it. The simple fact that he mustput off with such people day in and day out is a testament to his will and dedication. We need more like him.
These pyschics are no different than people who read the bible and say genocide or slavery can't be evil because God ordered it. Outside evidence and normal thinking just don't apply. They are so deluded some of them really believe what they say and then others IMHO like Sylvia Brown know what they are doing. Randi always seperates the 2 groups.
Who can say who does more harm.
Posted by: GH | January 29, 2007 12:53 AM
"If you're actually in contact with someone in the "spirit world" who can give you this information, why can't it be done in 15 or 20 minutes, why would it require 50 minutes or an hour?"
Low bandwidth? I think the afterlife is stuck with 2400 baud modems.
Posted by: RickD | January 29, 2007 6:13 AM
Any half-way decent mentalist knows you don't want to be right 100% of the time. People will simply not trust you and will assume some kind of trick. But if you're less accurate, people will actually trust you more. Even journalists get faked out by this.
Imagine.
Posted by: Dave S. | January 29, 2007 7:08 AM
Has someone let Sen. Stevens know that they've found the tube?
Posted by: kehrsam | January 29, 2007 8:31 AM
Dang it, kehrsam beat me to a Sen. Stevens comment. Maybe the Senator can get one of these psychics to help him with the enormous amounts of material in his tubes. Their psychic tubes seem to be relatively open.
Posted by: Jason I. | January 29, 2007 11:23 AM
These con artists are so obvious. One group of them claims they won't take the million dollar challenge because they don't believe the money is there, another group claims they aren't interested in money. Come on folks, win the money and give it to charity if you don't want money.
Has any psychic ever given humanity real insight into any real subject ahead of the scientists? Self-serving reinterpretations of vague babblings (ie Nostradamus) don't count.
Posted by: MarkP | January 29, 2007 12:35 PM
Perhaps I'm missing something, but...isn't she psychic? Wouldn't she be able to figure out if the money was there or not?
Posted by: Jason I. | January 29, 2007 12:40 PM
At that point, it would have been cool to see Mr. Randi roll out the million dollars in cash escorted by the obligatory armed guards and whatnot. Oh man that would have been sweet!
Why not add hot babes with stainless-steel briefcases and make a TV show out of it? "Psychic or no Psychic?"
Posted by: Raging Bee | January 29, 2007 1:01 PM
My opinion of Sylvia Browne (or even Rosemary Altea) is that they might have "some" powers but that they are Con-artist all the same - 10% psychic power, 90% guess work? This still makes them fraud! NO?
But I was a total skeptic until I was advised to have a spiritual consultation with ELIZABETH BARON, at elizabethbaron.com. She blew me off my feet. She knew details (not general things) about me NO ONE knew. And she gave me advices that really helped me get past difficult periods. So I will not pass judgement on possibilites, just because of few bad examples. But should learn lessons from them - Don't rely on Psychic, mediums...just rely on God.
My stand is that there are 'some' people who might have 'some' gifts BUT these are at never enough to rely anyone's future on. No human being is ever good enough to be GOD (I feel foolish even saying this). So don't rely on human beings for spiritual advices. You can do it for fun perhaps, but don't be a fool and put full faith in these things. Just entertain yourselves.
Posted by: Alltalknoaction | January 31, 2007 12:00 AM
They're all frauds, including Elizabeth Baron. Find one who can demonstrate their "gift" under normal observational techniques, as James Randi demands, and I'll take them seriously. Study after study has been done where people come out of a psychic's reading saying exactly what you said - "Oh my god, she told me things no one could possibly know, she was so accurate, she must be psychic" - but when you go back and actually look at the things said, they weren't accurate at all. The will to believe is a powerful thing.
Posted by: Ed Brayton | January 31, 2007 12:50 AM
Just for fun, I decided to have a look at Elizabeth Baron's predictions for 2006, just to see how they panned out...
Major earthquakes are defined as those 7 or above on the Richter scale. How many were there? 11. None in the United States.
Date/Place/Magnitude
Jan. 2 East of the South Sandwich Islands 7.4
Jan. 2 Fiji Region 7.2
Jan. 27 Banda Sea 7.6
Feb. 22 Mozambique 7.0
April 20 Koryakia, Russia 7.6
May 3 Tonga 7.9
May 16 Kermadec Islands Region 7.4
July 17 South of Java, Indonesia 7.7
Aug. 20 Scotia Sea, south of S. America 7.0
Nov. 15 Kuril Islands 8.3
Dec. 26 Taiwan region 7.1
So terrorism will happen, but they won't call it terrorism. So if terrorism happened, she gets credit for predicting it, and if it didn't, it just means they haven't called it terrorism and she gets even more credit!
Again with the heads I win, tails you lose argument. Note she says that he will be punished, and that he could easily escape (physically escape or just an acquital...she got both covered). Her prediction is "right" regardless how the trial turns out! Of course he'll die eventually. Well duh. As for arguing with the judge, he did that from the very first day of the trial, October 19, 2005, 2 months before she made her prediction.
Holy cow! Troops will rotate out and be redeployed! Who coulda thunk it??
An opinion doesn't constitute a prediction.
More opinion, and a vague duh-prediction that medical breakthroughs will happen.
Here's at last something of a prediction. Problem is, there are no cases of bird flu in the United States in birds, let alone in people.
Wrong. The DJIA was fairly flat for the first half of 2006, then rose steadily in the second half. The NASDAQ was steady for a couple months, fell for a couple months, and then also rose in the last half of 2006. Levels of both are the highest they've been in years. I think record highs for the Dow.
Opinion is not prediction.
I laughed out loud that she didn't want to take away anyone's "free will". She alludes to Condi Rice and Hillary as running against one another. Not exactly a barn-burner of a prediction. She does say a man and woman from each party will run. Possibly, but we have to wait another year or so to find that out. If Hillary and Condi do get the nods, it only makes sense both will pick a male running mate. But this still has to be confirmed.
Yes, there will be many natural disaters in the future. Too bad we don't have people with powers to predict such things in advance so we could be warned.
Is this all it takes to blow one off their feet?
Posted by: Dave S. | January 31, 2007 8:14 AM
The Catholic Church has many, many problems and this man is trying to work on these issues now, but he needs to take more of a part himself in making these rules, especially for the priests and nuns. It is important for this church not to look at the financial loss but what they can do for the world, especially the poverty stricken. There is so much money there that the Pope and others can do so much for the world for controlling poverty. If they will give out what they receive, they will see that the money will come back to them tenfold.
Posted by: azdırıcı | May 16, 2009 8:19 AM