Fargo Moves Ten Commandments Monument : Dispatches from the Culture Wars

Profile

Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of Michigan Citizens for Science and co-founder of The Panda's Thumb. He has written for such publications as The Bard, Skeptic and Reports of the National Center for Science Education, spoken in front of many organizations and conferences, and appeared on nationally syndicated radio shows and on C-SPAN. Ed is also a Fellow with the Center for Independent Media and the host of Declaring Independence, a one hour weekly political talk show on WPRR in Grand Rapids, Michigan.(static)

Search

Other Information

Ed Brayton also blogs at Positive Liberty and The Panda's Thumb

Ed Brayton is a participant in the Center for Independent Media New Journalism Program. However, all of the statements, opinions, policies, and views expressed on this site are solely Ed Brayton's. This web site is not a production of the Center, and the Center does not support or endorse any of the contents on this site.

Ed's Audio and Video

Declaring Independence podcast feed

YearlyKos 2007

Video of speech on Dover and the Future of the Anti-Evolution Movement

Audio of Greg Raymer Interview

E-mail Policy

Any and all emails that I receive may be reprinted, in part or in full, on this blog with attribution. If this is not acceptable to you, do not send me e-mail - especially if you're going to end up being embarrassed when it's printed publicly for all to see.

My Ecosystem Details

« Dembski's Latest Silliness | Main | More Distortions on the Good News Case »

Fargo Moves Ten Commandments Monument

Posted on: June 20, 2007 9:31 AM, by Ed Brayton

The Fargo, ND city council voted 3-2 to move a ten commandments monument to private property. That followed a unanimous vote to reject a request by a freethought group to put up a monument of their own next to that one that would have included a quote from the 1796 Treaty with Tripoli: "The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." Sounds like a reasonable outcome for me. If you're going to have ten commandments monuments, it has to be an open forum. The freethought group says they will drop the request as long as it's moved to private property. I think this should be done more often around the country where such monuments exist.

Share this: Facebook Twitter Stumbleupon Reddit Email + More

Comments

I'm betting the monument was still paid for with public money. This could turn into a neat runaround. The city council pays for the violation of the first ammendment, then donates it to a private group when someone complains.

Posted by: Michael Suttkus, II | June 20, 2007 10:08 AM

why is it that supporters of putting the 10 commandments on display have never actually read them. for example, working on the sabbath is forbiden, the punishment is death, believing in false gods is also the death penalty. it seems the only commandment not requiring the death penalty is "Thou shall not kill"

Posted by: richCares | June 20, 2007 10:24 AM

1796 Treaty with Tripoli? What was that?

Posted by: Heleen | June 20, 2007 10:28 AM

RichCares is right in pointing out that the commandment to keep the sabbath involves closing supermarkets and all shopping, and non-essential factories, on Sundays. Does the religious right actually advocate closing shops on Sundays?

Posted by: Heleen | June 20, 2007 10:34 AM

Heleen.

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html

Article 11

I love using this whenever a christian brings up the "Christian Nation" bullshit.

Posted by: Paul T. | June 20, 2007 10:42 AM

RichCares is right in pointing out that the commandment to keep the sabbath involves closing supermarkets and all shopping, and non-essential factories, on Sundays. Does the religious right actually advocate closing shops on Sundays?

Actually, it says "sabbath", not Sunday. Technically speaking, the sabbath is Saturday. I'm not sure how picky god is with these sorts of particulars, but given his track record, I'd venture that he's rather picky about it. Just to be safe, all shops, supermarkets, non-essential factories, cooking, and operating heavy machinery should be banned on any day that may or may not be the sabbath.

Posted by: Brian Thompson | June 20, 2007 11:11 AM

Let's not even get started on the Commandment not to seethe a kid in its mother's milk. Chicken-fried steaks would have to go underground!

Posted by: Coragyps | June 20, 2007 11:42 AM

The religious right couldn't possibly advocate observing the sabbath (whether Saturday or Sunday). No wrestling or NASCAR on either day? They'd lose their base.

Posted by: dogmeatib | June 20, 2007 12:00 PM

NASCAR? This is Fargo, ND - sunday is World Wide Wrestling day!

It should be noted that in Minnesota (right across the border from Fargo) you can't buy cars or off-sale liquor on Sundays. I believe ND has the same blue laws on the books.

Posted by: yoshi | June 20, 2007 12:12 PM

Coragyps:

Chicken fried steak should be underground. What a barbarous thing to do to a steak.

Posted by: James | June 20, 2007 12:13 PM

James:

Coragyps stated '... not to seethe a kid in its mother's milk.' 'kid', as far as I know, refers to an immature goat. So he's not referring to a traditional (in America anyway) beef steak.

Posted by: llewelly | June 20, 2007 12:38 PM

Actually, it says "sabbath", not Sunday. Technically speaking, the sabbath is Saturday.

Shabbatt is Saturday. Sabbath is Sunday. I don't know what Muslims call Friday, their holy day.

Posted by: raj | June 20, 2007 1:03 PM

Terry Randal (or is it Randal Terry?) *has* advocated a governmental enforcement of the Sabbath

The most ironic Commandment on these monuments is the one about not making graven images of the Lord. These are the people who think the Word is God and God is the Word. Yet they want to go engraving His Word in stone.

Posted by: Ferrous Patella | June 20, 2007 1:23 PM

I think Christians should get gimmicks on their phones to disable 911 calls for the 24 hours of their Sabbath.

Posted by: Gork | June 20, 2007 1:46 PM

Coragyps stated '... not to seethe a kid in its mother's milk.' 'kid', as far as I know, refers to an immature goat. So he's not referring to a traditional (in America anyway) beef steak.

Hm. Philly cheesesteak, then?

Posted by: Coin | June 20, 2007 2:34 PM

Michael Suttkus wrote:

I'm betting the monument was still paid for with public money. This could turn into a neat runaround. The city council pays for the violation of the first ammendment, then donates it to a private group when someone complains.

Actually it was privately funded "by the Fraternal Order of Eagles in 1958 to commemorate an urban renewal project." The urnban renewal in question was recover from a massive F5 tornado that ripped through town the previous year.

With respect to North Dakota Blue Laws, yes, they still exist. Stores other than gas stations and grocery stores can't open until noon on Sunday.

Posted by: Fargo Resident | June 20, 2007 3:18 PM

I don't think the kid/milk thing is a commandment. Is it an abomination, or just a law? These things are so confusing. Shrimp and gays are an abomination, idols are a commandment, short hair on wimmin...abomination? No electricity on the weekend, a law? Touch not your sour cream potato with your NY strip, surely that's a law.

Stores are generally closed Sunday morning and evening -- not because of the commandment, but because of the competition. The church types were afraid no one would show up at prayer meeting if they could go get a new blouse instead. Or so I remember from my Baptist youth many moons ago.

Posted by: Suze | June 20, 2007 4:12 PM

Suze, read Exodus chapter 34. AFAIK, that's the only place in the Bible that "ten commandments" are laid out and carved into tablets of stone that get carried around instead of shattered into bits. And kids and milk are in there.

Posted by: Coragyps | June 20, 2007 5:53 PM

Re: kids and milk, etc, here is an excellent article from American Atheists regarding the three versions of the Decalogue. The Catholic version, of course, does not prohibit making graven images.

http://www.atheists.org/christianity/hangemall.html

Posted by: chris | June 20, 2007 6:30 PM

I always wondered which version of the Ten Commandments is represented -- the one the says 'Thou shall not kill' or 'Thou shall not murder'?
Roman Catholic version - Baptist version

Posted by: Rhampton | June 21, 2007 4:01 PM