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Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of Michigan Citizens for Science and co-founder of The Panda's Thumb. He has written for such publications as The Bard, Skeptic and Reports of the National Center for Science Education, spoken in front of many organizations and conferences, and appeared on nationally syndicated radio shows and on C-SPAN. Ed is also a Fellow with the Center for Independent Media and the host of Declaring Independence, a one hour weekly political talk show on WPRR in Grand Rapids, Michigan.(static)

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Dishonest Producers of ID Persecution Film

Posted on: August 23, 2007 9:31 AM, by Ed Brayton

I've mentioned before the documentary Expelled, an ID propaganda film claiming rampant persecution of ID advocates. It will recount the entirely made up tales of martyrdom for Richard Sternberg, Guillermo Gonzalez and a couple others. PZ Myers and Genie Scott, it turns out, were interviewed for the film under highly dishonest circumstances. The producers lied to them about the nature of the movie to get them to do interviews. Anyone surprised? I didn't think so. And yes, we are already preparing to counter the lies and exaggerations in the film. My detailed and thorough debunking of the Souder report will be published in Skeptic magazine at the same time the film comes out in February.

Comments

I'm actually looking forward to the DVD version of Expelled. A creationist with a pause button? Sweet. YouTube here I come.

Posted by: Mark Nutter | August 23, 2007 10:00 AM

Count me in the group of people who are not surprised.

Posted by: Bourgeois_rage | August 23, 2007 10:01 AM

It looks like the ID people were correct when they said they could actually produce something. Of course that "something" still isn't science - it's much more closely related to fertilizer.

Looking at the bright side, since IDers are involved with this project, I don't expect any Oscars will come their way. Maybe a Golden Whoopi Cushion Award.

Posted by: J-Dog | August 23, 2007 10:16 AM

I'm surprised the nutters went to the extent of making a movie with the premise they are persecuted. But on the other hand, I'm not surprised that once they did, they would lie and mislead to produce it.

Posted by: Paul Sunstone | August 23, 2007 10:27 AM

Just because I can't find it, when did you mention this documentary before since yesterdays post at Pharyngula was the first I had heard of it.

Posted by: Halcyon | August 23, 2007 10:29 AM

Hey, don't be surprised that nutters will go to the extent of making a movie with an absurd premise. After all, there is movie whose premise is that the stochastic nature of quantum mechanics means that we can control reality with our thoughts....

-Rob

Posted by: Rob Knop | August 23, 2007 11:09 AM

According to this German article in "Skeptiker 1/2005" the very same method has been applied by the German creationist film maker Fritz Poppenberg. Unfortunately, the article is in German.

Posted by: sparc | August 23, 2007 12:21 PM

Gotta love the Dawkins quote on the splash page: since when is saying "Put up or shut up" an act of repression? Oh yeah: when the target is just blowing smoke.

Posted by: Eamon Knight | August 23, 2007 1:02 PM

Gotta love the Dawkins quote on the splash page: since when is saying "Put up or shut up" an act of repression? Oh yeah: when the target is just blowing smoke.

Yeah, I'm not generally a fan of Dawkins' religious stuff, but I thought that one quote from the Expelled site was quite reasonable and well put.

Posted by: Coin | August 23, 2007 1:27 PM

Had a bit of free time yesterday, and did some research after seeing PZ's blog post. I found Rampant's website, and it's pretty clear that it's a dummy. It lists eight "properties," meaning films either in production or release, but none of them show up in IMDB. Furthermore, if you Google their names in conjunction with Rampant Films, the only hits you get are at -- wait for it -- rampantfilms.com. Up until yesterday evening, their website listed an "office" address in Sherman Oaks, part of Los Angeles, with a phone number whose area code placed it in New Mexico.

Since the "office" is only a couple of blocks off my route home from work, I stopped by yesterday evening, and discovered that it's a basic B-list apartment house; in appearance it's C-list, but the sign out front said it had a fitness center, so I upgraded it. Shortly after I posted that in PZ's comments, the contact information on the website shrunk to an e-mail address.

The dummy website is the 21^st-century version of Jim Rockford's home-made business-card printer.

Posted by: Pieter B | August 23, 2007 1:27 PM

As much as I'd like to believe they lied to PZ as you imply - the letter seems pretty carefully crafted to be an honest - if not completely revealing document.

PZ should have asked for some assurances about the editorial slant of the film before agreeing.

Posted by: Pelican's Point | August 23, 2007 1:34 PM

Pieter's comment could turn out to be very important. Looks like the whole company might be a sham. It all reminds me of Patriot University in a split level home in Alamosa, Colorado.

Posted by: Ed Brayton | August 23, 2007 1:52 PM

Pelican's Point says:

As much as I'd like to believe they lied to PZ as you imply - the letter seems pretty carefully crafted to be an honest - if not completely revealing document.

Did the letter mention that PZ would be "confronted" or that the movie would be taking apparently a very much pro-ID stance?

Lies of omission are still lies.

Posted by: Dave S. | August 23, 2007 1:54 PM

Pieter, why don't you snap a picture and send it on to PZ.

Posted by: KeithB | August 23, 2007 2:01 PM

Shortly after I posted that in PZ's comments, the contact information on the website shrunk to an e-mail address.

I hope someone captured the original info -- it's not in the Wayback Machine.

Posted by: RBH | August 23, 2007 2:02 PM

PZ has the e-mail with the supposed address, and if you Google [without the quote marks] "rampant-films woodman" you'll see the phone number, even though the page is apparently not cached. I've got a screenshot.

Pieter, why don't you snap a picture and send it on to PZ.

Because there's no place to park in that neighborhood. See the Google map satellite photo.

Posted by: Pieter B | August 23, 2007 2:37 PM

PZ is probably already aware of this; see the (very lengthy) comment thread at his own blog. Numerous commenters have brought up that the address is just an apartment, and that there's no information about any of this in IMDB, and that the whole operation looks like a fake.

Posted by: Skemono | August 23, 2007 4:24 PM

I posted a few of those comments and have been in correspondence with PZ, Skemono.

Posted by: Pieter B | August 23, 2007 4:46 PM

Coin: "Yeah, I'm not generally a fan of Dawkins' religious stuff, but I thought that one quote from the Expelled site was quite reasonable and well put."

I thought the same thing myself.

Posted by: J. J. Ramsey | August 23, 2007 6:17 PM

After Fahrenheit 911 came out, there were several Moore-debunking movies, supposedly in production, all scheduled for release before the election, with pretty websites, etc. I didn't see one in actual theatrical release.

Posted by: Gerard Harbison | August 23, 2007 7:40 PM

If this movie opens in a courtroom scene with Michael Behe saying "Well, I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition" followed by the entrance of Torquemada...then the movie might be worth seeing.

Posted by: mark | August 23, 2007 9:04 PM

Get the Stein Out!

Why not let the folks who make Visine, the advertising for which nets Ben Stein quite a bit of money, I'm sure, know how we feel about this garbage? It turns out that Visine is produced by McNeil-PPC, a division of Johnson & Johnson that makes a lot of other consumer health products.

The link above includes a link to a form letter that can easily be tweaked and mailed to the CEO of Johnson & Johnson, letting him know that people who support honesty in science and science education are opposed to both the movie and to his company's tacit endorsement of it by their continued employment of Stein.

Posted by: Mike O'Risal | August 25, 2007 12:47 PM

CORRECTION:

Ben Stein is a shill for Clear Eye, not for Visine. My apologies for the confusion.

Posted by: Mike O'Risal | August 25, 2007 6:29 PM