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brayton_headshot_wre_1443.jpg Ed Brayton is a freelance writer and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of Michigan Citizens for Science and co-founder of The Panda's Thumb. He has written for such publications as The Bard, Skeptic and Reports of the National Center for Science Education, spoken in front of many organizations and conferences, and appeared on nationally syndicated radio shows and on C-SPAN. Ed is also a Fellow with the Center for Independent Media.(static)

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« Bad 9th Circuit Ruling on School Bible Clubs | Main | More Cordova Distortions »

Sali Digs the Hole Deeper

Category:
Posted on: August 28, 2007 9:23 AM, by Ed Brayton

A reader sent along an op-ed piece written by Rep. Bill Sali of Idaho, the Congressman who made the absurd comments about how horrible it is that Congress now has a Muslim member and the Senate let a Hindu chaplain offer an opening prayer. That op-ed was in an Idaho newspaper that does not have free access on their webpage, so he sent me the full text, which I will quote below along with responses. He begins:

This nation was founded on the principle of freedom of religion - a principle that I emphatically embrace and have taken an oath to defend. But our nation's freedom of religion does not mean, as some history revisionists would like us to believe, that our Founding Fathers weren't religious, nor that they didn't embrace Christian principles. They most certainly did. The Founders recognized that "it is impossible to rightly govern the without God and the Bible." It is unfortunate those words, which come directly from George Washington, would be deemed narrow-minded or bigoted if they were spoken today.

I hope your irony meters managed to survive the blow of hearing someone accuse someone else of historical revisionism while using one of the infamous fake quotations from David Barton. No, George Washington did not say "it is impossible to rightly govern without God and the Bible." No one has ever found that statement anywhere in his writings or speeches. Historical revisionism, indeed. And Sali is just warming up.

He makes the same mistake that every other Christian nation revisionist makes in taking any statement he can find from any founding father talking about God or religion and presuming, unjustifiably, that they're talking about the "Judeo-Christian" god; this is especially ironic given how much the Christians of that day ranted against Jews and how the new Constitution - the one that includes the no religious test clause that Sali doesn't seem to like - would actually allow Jews to serve in Congress.

James Madison and John Adams would also be viewed as bigoted. Madison spoke of how the Almighty had extended his hand at critical stages of the American Revolution, allowing our nation to survive and thrive.

Adams wrote, "The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence ... were the general principals of Christianity. ... I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."

Pure historical ignorance and wrong on multiple levels. First of all, Madison and Adams were both theistic rationalists, not orthodox Christians. And remember that Madison opposed Congressional chaplaincies and officially sponsored prayers in the legislature and argued that they are a violation of the first amendment; Madison would not have wanted any such prayers at all, whether Christian or not.

Adams, who wrote far more about religion than Madison did, was quite explicit about his universalism. Thus the irony that I pointed out in my earlier debunking of Sali's freakout about the Hindu prayer, since Adams specifically pointed to a Hindu text as containing "orthodox" and correct views about the nature of God. Madison wrote to Jefferson:

Where is to be found Theology more orthodox or Phylosophy more profound than in the Introduction to the Shast[r]a [a Hindu Treatise]? "God is one, creator of all, Universal Sphere, without beginning, without End. God Governs all the Creation by a General Providence, resulting from his eternal designs -- Search not the Essence and the nature of the Eternal, who is one; Your research will be vain and presumptuous. It is enough that, day by day, and night by night, You adore his Power, his Wisdom and Goodness, in his Works."

So here we have Sali's generic and presumptuous comments clearly in conflict with the specific words of Adams. Sali's argument, stated in syllogism form, would look like this:

A. John Adams spoke of the "general principles of Christianity" as eternal and immutable.

B. Hinduism is not Christianity.

C. Therefore, John Adams would be opposed to hearing a Hindu prayer in the Senate and would consider it a rejection of the "general principles of Christianity."

Sounds vaguely logical unless one sets aside these presumptions and looks at what John Adams actually said about Hinduism, Christianity and the nature of God. If one looks at Adams' actual words on the subject and at his repeated use of the phrase "general principles of Christianity" in the broadest possible manner, meaning merely the general principles of good virtue and belief in God, it becomes clear that Sali's argument is false.

Adams would not have been the least bit shocked or offended by a Hindu prayer in the Senate; he would have considered that prayer every bit as orthodox and appropriate as any other prayer. Bear in mind also that Adams explicitly was hardly an orthodox Christian by any means. Like Jefferson, Adams rejected nearly every aspect of Christian doctrine, including the virgin birth, the trinity, the divinity of Jesus, and so forth.

Was Benjamin Franklin culturally insensitive when he noted that it was difficult to imagine that our country could have come into being without the guidance, influence and governance of God? Franklin wrote that the Founders had "daily prayers for divine protection," and that their prayers were "graciously answered."

"I have lived a long time," Franklin wrote, "and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs the affairs of men! And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid?"

Again, notice that there isn't a word here about Christianity, only about God being provident. We know that Franklin left Christianity behind as a young man; he says so himself in his autobiography. We also know that Franklin, like all the other founders, believed strongly in a provident and benevolent God. Even Thomas Paine, who scathingly attacked nearly all aspects of Biblical Christianity, believed as Franklin did; that alone is proof that it is absurd to make this casual equation of belief in God with belief in the Christian God.

And like Adams and the other leading founders, Franklin was a universalist. He famously said that it would be entirely appropriate to have a Muslim minister giving a sermon in a Christian church that he helped build in Philadelphia; he would hardly be shocked or surprised to hear a Hindu prayer in the Senate, or to find out that a Muslim was elected to the House.

I'm sorry that my comments in support of my faith have been taken grossly out of context. But I'm not sorry to defend my faith, nor should I be.

No, you're missing the point. The problem is not that you're defending your faith, the problem is that you're claiming, falsely, that the faith of Adams and Franklin is identical to yours. That is clearly not the case. Their own words show that they reject your position on this, but you're too ignorant to know that.

Comments

Thanks, nice post. I wonder if Sali would ever use one of my favorite Benjamin Franklin quotes, "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." The funny thing is, I don't know if Franklin actually ever said that.

Posted by: Brian | August 28, 2007 9:37 AM

"It is unfortunate those words, which come directly from George Washington, would be deemed narrow-minded or bigoted if they were spoken today."

Brayton already showed the quote to be false, but I'd like to add that words would still remain narrow-minded and bigoted even if they were uttered by all the founding fathers in unison and written in great big letters into the Constitution. I suppose that would be unfortunate for the founders' images, perhaps even legal precedents, but not unfortunate for those agreeing to the description.

Posted by: daenku32 | August 28, 2007 10:07 AM

Ed wrote:

If one looks at Adams' actual words on the subject and at his repeated use of the phrase "general principles of Christianity" in the broadest possible manner, meaning merely the general principles of good virtue and belief in God, it becomes clear that Sali's argument is false.

It goes even further than that. If you add back in the parts of Adams's quote that Sali snipped out, what you get is:
Who composed that Army of fine young Fellows that was then before my Eyes? There were among them, Roman Catholicks, English Episcopalians, Scotch and American Presbyterians, Methodists, Moravians, Anababtists, German Lutherans, German Calvinists Universalists, Arians, Priestleyans, Socinians, Independents, Congregationalists, Horse Protestants and House Protestants, Deists and Atheists; and "Protestans qui ne croyent rien ["Protestants who believe nothing"]." Very few however of several of these Species. Nevertheless all Educated in the general Principles of Christianity: and the general Principles of English and American Liberty.

Could my Answer be understood, by any candid Reader or Hearer, to recommend, to all the others, the general Principles, Institutions or Systems of Education of the Roman Catholicks? Or those of the Quakers? Or those of the Presbyterians? Or those of the Menonists? Or those of the Methodists? or those of the Moravians? Or those of the Universalists? or those of the Philosophers? No.

The general Principles, on which the Fathers Atchieved Independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their Address, or by me in my Answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all those Sects were united: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.
(my bold)

Of course, Sali didn't find that quote on his own, and has very likely never read the whole thing himself. It was almost certainly just cut and paste from somewhere on the internet.

Posted by: argystokes | August 28, 2007 11:25 AM

You wrote:
...correct views about the nature of God. Madison wrote to Jefferson:

Where is to be found Theology more orthodox...

Did you mean to write "Adams wrote to Jefferson:"?

Posted by: DaleP | August 28, 2007 1:11 PM

Brian wrote of Franklin's beer quote, and rightly questioned its authenticity. He's not the first; Bob Skilnik, beer historian, tracked down the quote and discovered that Franklin was actually writing about wine.

Posted by: Pieter B | August 28, 2007 1:48 PM

Thanks Pieter!

Posted by: Brian | August 29, 2007 9:26 AM

In two places Brayton talks of founding fathers as being "Universalist."

What does that term mean in religion. I thought the Universalists in the U.S. (now merged with Unitarians) believed that salvation was "universal," hence the name.

Does it mean something else???

Posted by: Austin | August 29, 2007 12:54 PM

Austin-

It's referred to as "syncretic universalism" and it means that they believed that there is only one God and that the various religions are different conceptions of that one God. This is not true of all the founders, of course, but of the leading group of founders that Jon Rowe and I so often discuss.

Posted by: Ed Brayton | August 29, 2007 1:32 PM

Yes,

There are two different understandings of the term "universalists" and the key Founders were universalists in both senses. One is the belief that different religions, even those outside of the Judeo-Christian system, are valid ways to God. The other is the belief in universal salvation.

Posted by: Jon Rowe | August 29, 2007 8:32 PM

Ed & Jon Rowe:

Thank you gentlemen. Your explanations help. The terminology takes a while to learn for those of us who were "unchurched. I was in college before I knew what genuflect meant, to show you just how "unchurched" I am.

To someone like me, Tim Wildmon's comment in your (Ed's) post today, that "[e]very religion is not equal. That's my belief. That's logic" is strange. Logic tells me that all religions are a product of the human imagination, and I don't know how one could rank imaginary things. What is equal or unequal about a unicorn versus a leprechaun, for example?

Anyway, thanks again.

--Austin

Posted by: Austin | August 30, 2007 12:45 PM

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