This idiotic diatribe by Limbaugh about Jefferson and the separation of church and state really has to be read to be believed. While criticizing an unnamed teacher (who I frankly doubt exists) for her "total hack, liberal political bias", he spews absolute nonsense about the subject. Like this:
This has been taken so out of context, and has been amplified far beyond what Jefferson ever intended. For example, Thomas Jefferson -- I don't know how many of you people were taught this, thus I don't know how many of you remember it. Thomas Jefferson wrote the first draft of the Declaration of Independence -- and, of course, it speaks of God repeatedly. It speaks of unalienable rights which are endowed by our Creator. Now, the Declaration of Independence is our founding document. So if Thomas Jefferson was hostile to religion, the basis of which is God, it's hard to explain his writings in such an important document.
It's only difficult for simpleminded dolts. Those who have actually read Jefferson's voluminous writings on the subject of God and religion have no problem understanding it at all. Limbaugh only makes it a problem by misstating the premise. No one claims that Jefferson was "hostile to religion." Thus, the fact that he believed in God does not conflict with any actual claim made on the subject. Limbaugh is beating up a straw man.
It's quite a common straw man, of course. Like many other Christian nation apologists, he wants to equate support for separation of church and state with hostility toward religion, which is absolutely false. As I've pointed out many times, some of the staunchest defenders of church/state separation were Baptist ministers like John Leland and Isaac Backus. That Jefferson believed in God has nothing at all to do with the kind of separation of church and state he advocated.
When this all started in 1947, the Supreme Court seized on a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote. "The wall of separation between church and state" was taken out of context in a letter that Jefferson wrote to the Danbury, Connecticut, Baptist community in which he explained why he didn't call for national days of fasting and Thanksgiving, as George Washington and John Adams had as president. But two days later he went to church! He attended church services in the House of Representatives. He continued as a regular attendant throughout his presidency.
One false claim and one red herring; not bad for half a paragraph, even by Limbaugh's standards. Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists doesn't even mention calls for national days of thanksgiving, not by Jefferson or by Washington and Adams, nor did the letter the Danbury congregation wrote to Jefferson mention such proclamations. Has Limbaugh ever actually read the letter? Highly doubtful. Is there anything more ridiculous than someone presuming to lecture someone else about the contents of a document they've never read?
As for the second claim, it is an irrelevant half-truth that has been debunked many times. What Jefferson attended at the hall where the House met was far more accurately called a big party than a church service. It featured many different speakers at different times, including preachers, but it was really a big social gathering, not a church service. Jefferson, who complained of the lack of social life in the capitol at the time, was an occasional attendee.
I want to finish my thought on this separation of church and state business here, folks, because this is important. I don't care if you have some wacko teacher teaching your kid wrongly about it, it's still something that everybody has just come to accept, and it doesn't exist. There's no such thing. You can go to the Constitution, go to First Amendment, and freedom of religion is the first thing that's mentioned. And it just says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." That seals us against the fear of a state church. That's it. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Now, the key here is coercion, which I will get to in a moment. But in that First Amendment, there's no separation clause there.
Same old stupid argument - if that exact phrase isn't there, it doesn't exist. "The words 'separation of powers' is found nowhere in the Constitution. There's no such thing." Brilliant.
This phrase, separation of church and state, comes from Thomas Jefferson's letter. He wrote it on January 1st, 1802, to the Danbury Baptist Association. He used the phrase, "a wall of separation between church and state" to describe what the First Amendment had accomplished so that these Baptists didn't need to fear state governments' declarations of days of prayer and fasting, as abridging their religious rights. They didn't have to fear it because nothing could be done to them. The First Amendment protects religious expression even by individuals in government, and even in public halls and government buildings. Jefferson solidified this by concluding his letter with a reference to the common father and creator of man.
There's no way Limbaugh has actually read Jefferson's letter (see the full text here). It had nothing - absolutely nothing - to do with declarations of prayer and fasting, not at the Federal or state level. Nor did the letter that he was answering have anything to do with such declarations (see that letter here).
They wrote to Jefferson to congratulate him on winning the presidency and to express their hope that his separationist views would spread to the state level. They knew that he had no authority over the official Congregationalist establishment in Connecticut, but they said that they hoped that "the sentiments of our beloved President", particularly in regard to religious freedom, "will shine & prevail through all these States and all the world till Hierarchy and Tyranny be destroyed from the Earth."
There isn't a word in either letter about government proclamations of prayer and fasting at either the state or Federal level. The complaint that the Danbury Baptists had was not about such proclamations but about a Connecticut state law that taxed citizens for the support of religion. The Danbury Baptists had started a petition in their state to get that law changed. It had nothing to do with religious proclamations at all.
Now, this letter ended up being seized on in 1947 by the Supreme Court, in a case called Emerson vs. Board of Education. The Supreme Court in '47 asserted that separation of church and state is mandated by the Constitution. That was a complete misstatement of Jefferson's record, to seize a single letter and to ignore the rest of his record and to take that whole phrase, a wall of separation, out of the context of the letter that Jefferson wrote.
Yet another false claim. First of all, it's Everson, not Emerson. And the Supreme Court did not acknowledge Jefferson's letter as evidence of the intent of the first amendment's religion clauses in 1947, it did so first in 1879 in Reynolds v US. The Court cited Jefferson's letter and said:
Coming as this does from an acknowledged leader of the advocates of the measure, it may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the amendment thus secured.
And of course, Limbaugh isn't really concerned about the context of the letter because, as I demonstrated above, he's almost certainly never read it and is completely fabricating a fake context in his arguments. Which leads to the next red herring:
Now, as an aside, ladies and gentlemen, Thomas Jefferson was not at the constitutional convention. He was representing our country in France. He was investigating Bordeaux. He didn't vote on the Constitution.
True, but irrelevant. We could just as easily quote the many times that Madison used virtually the same phrase to describe the first amendment religion clauses. Madison, of course, was the primary force behind the writing of the Bill of Rights and the most adamant advocate of separation.
He was a deist, not an atheist. In other words, he believed in a supreme being, but not a supreme being who intercedes simply because someone prays and asks him to. But without getting into all that, the point is that Jefferson was not hostile to religion, his record is not one of banishing it from the public square, at all.
Repeating the same red herring. And he's wrong, Jefferson was not a deist either. But his personal religious beliefs have nothing to do with the meaning of the first amendment. Absolutely nothing.
So this is something that's been taken totally out of context, purposefully by liberals, teachers, and so forth, who have a great fear of religion.
Uh huh. Those anonymous liberals could scarcely do a more thorough job of distorting the issue than you have, Rush. You're talking out your ass. You either haven't read those letters at all, in which case you have no business talking about them at all, or you're flat out lying. Take your pick.

Ed Brayton is a freelance writer and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
Comments
O'Lieley was on the same "christian nation" kick on his radio program yesterday. Is it just a coincidence that this topic is getting so much air time on the various wingnut shows?
Posted by: Winnebago | October 2, 2007 9:56 AM
Maybe its also related to John McCain's desperate attempts to connect with evangelicals by saying much the same things.
And stupider. Unless he's merely courting their votes by saying things he doesn't actually believe. There's a word for people like that. Politician.
Posted by: Dave S. | October 2, 2007 10:07 AM
Limbaugh is correct that the first draft of the DofI had more mentions of God but his conclusions are the opposite of Jefferson's intent. Jefferson noted two distinctly different views of God in the first draft; the "Creator" that remains in the text, and what Jefferson noted as the "Christian God" where King George III claimed his divine right to rule.
The young and radical Jefferson needed to be reigned-in by the drafting committee on using the DofI as an explicit platform that rejected Judeo-Christian concepts regarding justification to rule; a rejection the drafting committee, especially Franklin, rejected in order to optimize the support of colonists who were already justifiably nervous about rebelling against their God-ordained king.
While Franklin was most likely right by striking-out the negative connotations of the phrase "Christian God" in order to solicit and maintain support to revolt by many devout Christians, especially Anglicans; the DofI is now more susceptible to misinterpretation by the far right regarding the original meaning of Jefferson's Creator relative to the divine right of kings' God.
The DofI continues to be a radical declaration of freedom by man and Limbaugh continues to remain clueless.
Posted by: Michael Heath | October 2, 2007 10:23 AM
I think Limbaugh needs a trip to Monticello.
Posted by: Melissa | October 2, 2007 10:34 AM
I am religious, am very tolerant of other religions, and believe separation of church and state is important. Obviously I am some sort of walking paradox. I'd better not get too close to Limbaugh or we might be blinked out of reality. Actually, I'd rather not get too close to Limbaugh regardless.
Posted by: Brandon | October 2, 2007 10:34 AM
The Reagan conservatives are nervous about the mumblings of a third party candidate by the fundies. So they're throwing the fundies some bones to keep them in line. Rush knows it's smooth sailing for Hillary if the fundies depart.
Posted by: Dwimr | October 2, 2007 10:41 AM
I think Limbaugh needs a trip to Monticello.
I think Limbaugh needs to view the Declaration for himself. I just saw it myself over the weekend. I wonder if Rush even knows where to find the actual Charters of Freedom on display. I doubt it.
Posted by: Kristine | October 2, 2007 10:58 AM
I never thought I would say this, but I'm with Rush. We need to elminate separation of church and state. It is the only way to get those fundamentalists under control.
Posted by: Tex | October 2, 2007 11:00 AM
Yes, Rush, if you read the Declaration, you would think that Jefferson was talking about the present George.
Posted by: Kristine | October 2, 2007 11:05 AM
It always struck me that separation of church and state makes sense if you look at European and American history from the viewpoint for the founding fathers.
They had ample examples of what happens when religion and government get entangled. In no particular order:
1. The founding of Rhode Island.
2. The split between Rome and the Church of England
3. The inquisition
4. The Huguenot in France
5. The protestant / RC wars in Germany
6. The minor fact of divided loyalty if you were a member of the Church of England. How to be a citizen of a recently separated nation and swear alegiance to the King of England as the leader of your church.
There are many more.
Posted by: Jim Ramsey | October 2, 2007 11:59 AM
Being one of those "liberals" and "teachers," actually happen to be a liberal teacher, who teaches his students that there IS a separation between church and state ... I also teach them about the free exercise clause, the establishment clause, Lemon Test, checks and balances, federalism, etc. etc. etc.
But getting back to my original point, I do have to point out the one time that Limbaugh was right, perhaps for this year, but definitely in the quoted diatribe, liberal teachers do tend to teach the separation of church and state.
Posted by: dogmeatib | October 2, 2007 12:03 PM
"Rush knows it's smooth sailing for Hillary if the fundies depart."
I would think that Rush would want Hillary to win - it would be better for his little media empire.
Posted by: KeithB | October 2, 2007 12:09 PM
Big Fat Idiot:
Ed: Another small point is that the Establishment Clause isn't in "the Constitution" that was initially approved by the states in 1787-88. The Clause is, of course, in the First Amendment--which was ratified later, in a process ending in December of 1791.That point isn't terribly relevant to the question of Jefferson's role, but it does say a little more about Limbaugh's ignorance.
Posted by: Rieux | October 2, 2007 12:09 PM
Ed,
I do have to object to the title of this thread:
"Rush Limbaugh's Historical Ignorance"
If we're going to categorize his ignorance, and do it properly, we're going to be here for weeks, perhaps months.
Posted by: dogmeatib | October 2, 2007 12:15 PM
"This woman, this teacher, will not even, on papers type, out the word God, probably types "G-D." "
Rush is an idiot, but he's a kind of deliberate idiot. Which is to say, I would guess when he said this he knew what it really meant. There's one group of people who commonly type out the name of god as G-d, and it's not atheists.
Posted by: Moopheus | October 2, 2007 12:39 PM
Right, he called her an atheist JOO /probably/
Posted by: rpsms | October 2, 2007 12:56 PM
Jefferson also took a pair of scissors to his Bible and very meticulously snipped out all of the sections of the Gospels which describe miraculous or supernatural occurrences, leaving behind only the unadulterated mundane life of Jesus of Nazareth. He then strongly commended this to his friends and correspondents as being all that one needed know of the worthwhile part of Christian doctrine.
May we now assume that Limbaugh will voice public approval of Jefferson's version of Christ? No? Thought not.
--
Posted by: marquer | October 2, 2007 2:12 PM
From Jefferson's eloquent letter: "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship..."
This belongs on a t-shirt, or maybe on a large sign across the street from the White House.
His deep conviction that a person's beliefs on religious matters should be respected as private is but one of several reasons that TJ is one of my personal heroes. Every April 13, I raise a glass of homebrew in his memory.
Posted by: Bob | October 2, 2007 3:18 PM
Limbaugh talking about religious matters is like asking Larry Flynt to provide input for Bush's abstinence-only sex education initiative.
It's funny how it's usually the hedonists like Limbaugh and Coulter who end up being the spokesmen and defenders of religious right.
James Dobson made himself a laughingstock when he had Anne Coulter on as a guest his "family values" radio show. He's also a big fan of Rush Limbaugh too, and often quotes him when talking politics. I guess if you pay lip service to the claims of the religious right, then all is forgiven regarding your personal behavior and decidedly unchristian attacks on anyone who doesn't agree.
Posted by: tacitus | October 2, 2007 4:29 PM
Consider these two statements:
1. The color of my canine is crimson.
2. My dog is red.
It seems to me that the public discussion of the wall of separation falls into two general camps- those who would agree that the above statements, though worded differently, state basically the same thing, and those who would argue until they're blue in the face that the above statements can't be reasonably compared. In which case, naturally, they lose the intellectual debate, and so must rely on media saturation and repetition to make their arguments stick in the mind.
Posted by: Tyler | October 2, 2007 6:08 PM
I was going to email Rush a link to this post since Ed does such a good job of ripping Rush's idiocy apart and see if there was any response. Unfortunately, it seems he only wants to hear from people willing to pony up $49.95 per year for "Rush 24/7" membership. In other words, he only wants to hear from his worshipers - no descent welcome here.
Sigh...
--JK--
Posted by: Jeff Knapp | October 2, 2007 6:26 PM
In what ways are Limbaugh and Coulter hedonists (besides his drug thing)? This is an honest question. What is a good resource for finding out more about them?
Posted by: Harq al-Ada | October 3, 2007 2:56 AM
JK -
Just try to call into his show. Gods forbid if you disagree with him. I don't recall what it was about, but I wanted to make a glaring factual correction that was ideologically neutral. I was polite and didn't make any ideological statements, just mentioned that there was a factual error. I would have been the same had they actually put me through. I was told that they didn't allow that kind of crap on the show, that I would have to find some other show, that was ok with my views. I wish I could remember what the hell it was about, but I swear it was entirely neutral. The problem was, that Rush was wrong, so obviously and blatantly wrong. Apparently, it is not ok to point that out on his show.
Posted by: DuWayne | October 3, 2007 4:52 AM
As much as I love your blog and your writing style, there is nothing on the face of this planet that could induce me to read Rush Limbaugh (the only possible exception would be a gun firmly placed to a loved one's head. A gun placed to my head wouldn't do it; I'd rather be shot.). That bloviating, hypocritical ("Death to addicts!!! Except ME!!!"), pompous, lying, self-satified sack of horse-shit-with-a-cigar-stuck-in-it annoys me to the point where I'm not my normal cheery self.
(My apologies to horse shit everywhere. A comparison with you was the best I could come up with on short notice. You, at least, are useful for fertilizing flowers. Limbaugh or any by-product thereof, would reduce any piece of ground he was applied to to a sere and blasted heath.)
Posted by: Bryn | October 3, 2007 12:06 PM