Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
This time in North Dakota, where 8th grade health teacher Michael Nider showed a video to his class called "A Letter From Hell" that told kids they would go to hell if they didn't believe in Jesus. He's been placed on 3 weeks unpaid leave by the school board. The video is below the fold. Totally inappropriate, yet there are still some who defend what he did. The nuts at this page say:
GOD BLESS MICHAEL NIDER! AMEN! Their is NO NEED to apologize to those parents. If they want to burn in hell and take their kids with them they can, but, they will stand before God one day and be asked, "Why didn't you accept my Son, Jesus, as your personal Saviour when Michael told you about Him?" They will have NO EXCUSE and will be cast into the lake of fire forever! They don't believe it now, but they will on that day! Pray that the message got through to some of those kids and that they will be saved!
And the AFA's news outlet, predictably, thinks the punishment is horrible and the result of "political correctness":
Dr. Ed Gamble, president of the Southern Baptist Association of Christian Schools, says in a politically correct culture where teachers are allowed to promote homosexuality or Islam to young pupils, no one should be surprised at the anti-Christian bias in the government-run school system."There's a growing hostility toward Christianity in the culture at large, and you're naturally going to see that reflected in the culture's number-one engine -- the public school. It's inevitable," he says. "Why would we be surprised? It's been coming for 50 years. And now that the fruit's on the tree, we're all deeply concerned about it; but we've been watching the tree grow for 50 years."
Yeah, not letting Christian teachers use their position to preach to non-Christian students is all about being "anti-Christian." Moron. Here's the video:
Comments
Next thing you know, some parent will complain about his kid's teacher teaching class "in tongues"--ooba-gooba, og-gobbly goo!
Posted by: mark | December 16, 2007 9:59 AM
I think that video is anti-Christian.
Posted by: Dave M | December 16, 2007 10:14 AM
Since when can public school teachers "promote Islam?"
Posted by: BaldApe | December 16, 2007 10:36 AM
"Since when can public school teachers 'promote Islam?'"
You must not have received the memo. Teaching about something is exactly the same as promoting it.
Posted by: PhysioProf | December 16, 2007 10:46 AM
Dave M: I think that video is anti-Christian.
THIS.
Posted by: Some Guy | December 16, 2007 11:10 AM
Wow. These people have no sense of irony. Because if I were to make a parody video *mocking* Christianity, it might be something like that. Since Zack didn't tell his friend about Jayzus, his friend will burn forever. All Zack's fault. And they don't get why this makes their version of religion look truly disgusting to the rest of us? I feel sorry for the children of these people.
Posted by: Ted | December 16, 2007 11:21 AM
This video basically exemplifies everything that's wrong with Evangelical Christianity.
1) They have words on the screen and a narrator. What am I, an idiot? Pick one or the other, we don't need both.
2) If Josh had only been told about Jesus? Has Josh been living in a cave? We live in a society that's, what, at least 75% Christian? That celebrates Christmas every year. Where the US Congress just passed a resolution saying Christians and Christmas were important. "Wow, Zack. What did you say this guy's name was again, Jeee-zuss?"
3) Pure, 100% transparent appeal to emotion, specifically fear. Forget setting an example by leading a life worth living, let me hold a spiritual gun to your head and ask you if you want to convert. Are we now deciding religions based on which one scared the shit out of us the most? "Wait, wait, before you commit, our hell is 10 times worse than that. Think about it."
4) The whole thing has a condescending, holier than thou, masturbatory fantasy feel about it. Like, it's gonna be so awesome when all those non-Christians and other Christian who disagreed with us realize that we were right and they were wrong. I can't wait to see the look on their faces.
In case you can't tell, I'm pretty offended.
Posted by: MyPetSlug | December 16, 2007 11:25 AM
Sorry, Some Guy, I'm not getting you. Were you linking to something? (The Wikipedia entry for the No True Scotsman fallacy maybe? Just a guess.)
Incidentally, twice recently I commented on Typepad-driven blogs (I think they were Typepad) and both times they stripped the HTML from my text. Not only didn't they let you link, you couldn't even italicize. Stripped the tags right out. Has anyone else run into this?
I haven't had it happen on ScienceBlogs though.
Posted by: Dave M | December 16, 2007 11:40 AM
That may have been one of the most revolting things I have ever seen.
Posted by: Herb | December 16, 2007 11:51 AM
Dave M, Some Guy is agreeing with you. It's started to become the custom in some internet forums that if someone else has said what you planned to say, you quote them and simply write "this". Similar things include "+1" and "qft" (quoted for truth).
Posted by: Random Information | December 16, 2007 11:59 AM
Ah, thank you, RI. I hadn't seen that before (must not hang out in the right places). Sorry again, Some Guy!
Posted by: Dave M | December 16, 2007 12:08 PM
i don't understand why they would have this in Health class. Algebra I would make a lot more sense. Unless they are already using that period to teach teh Gay.
Posted by: kehrsam | December 16, 2007 12:16 PM
Well, if you were in their target demographic - probably, yes.
Posted by: MartinM | December 16, 2007 1:01 PM
Actually, I think the teacher in question is lucky he was not fired outright for using his classroom to promote his personal church's worldview.
As for the video, I stopped watching it 2:30 in - if Hell is that overdramatic and poorly produced, then I got a perfect taste of what it's like.
Mission accomplished.
Posted by: CHV | December 16, 2007 1:11 PM
That was hilarious. I must have laughed out loud four or five times. Great stuff.
I also enjoyed how nothing in the video actually promoted Jesus. But, then again, that would have been a reasonable argument, which we just can't have.
Posted by: Utah | December 16, 2007 1:53 PM
Unintentially hilarious.
Good thing no one could ever possibly take it seriously.
Oh wait.
Posted by: mollishka | December 16, 2007 2:09 PM
Sounds to me like there are alot of Christian hero's in hell. After all isn't teaching someone about Jesus then introducing duality? Those who have not heard "the truth" can only go to purgatory, its not good but its not that bad either. But once some do-gooder Christian tells them about Jesus he introduces the possibility of going to hell. So a truly heroic Christian is one who prevents the spread of the Christian message to save the "innocent" from Hell by dooming himself to it. See Christians aren't the only ones who can twist logic. Merry Squidmas.
Posted by: Troy | December 16, 2007 2:14 PM
Gamble says the anti-Christian trend has been developing in the schools for fifty years. I'm not sure what landmark he could be talking about that he thinks was the pivotal moment in the 1950s (give or take a few years), but the only thing that really comes to mind is Brown v. Board of Education in '54.
Or he could just be talking out of his ass.
Posted by: Kevin L. | December 16, 2007 2:23 PM
Kevin - The seminal anti-Christian landmark was the prayer decision sometime in 1960s (I think 1961). I don't know why Baptists are against a decision that said the state could not force children to pray (the prayers were written by state and said by teachers), but there it was - the Supreme Court "took God out of the classroom." Such a petty God it was, too, where 9 old men could overrule the deity. The Brown decision was also bad from the Southern Baptist view as it was using our children for social engineering experiments.
Posted by: BC | December 16, 2007 3:32 PM
You must not have received the memo. Teaching about something is exactly the same as promoting it.
Don't get carried away now. It goes like this:
Teaching about Islam = promoting Islam.
Honestly teaching about Christianity = Anti-Christian bias.
Supporting a tolerant environment for all students = advancing the homosexual agenda.
Posted by: dogmeatib | December 16, 2007 4:22 PM
People have the means to write letters in Hell? Where do they get the materials? Where do they find the time? And how do they have the ability to concentrate and compose complete and grammatically correct sentences/thoughts on paper despite the lapping flames and flesh-tearing meat hooks? (I presume it's paper- but paper is pretty flammable...so...?)
Posted by: Tyler | December 16, 2007 5:09 PM
Don't you realize, Tyler? Writing these stupid letters is their eternal punishment, just like writing lines in detention.
Hell is high school for eternity.
Posted by: Skemono | December 16, 2007 8:08 PM
If anything, the fact that this teacher got three weeks of unpaid leave (a pretty mild punishment, in my opinion), instead of being outright fired, for showing that video shows a bias "in the culture at large" in favor of Christianity and Christians.
Posted by: daniel rotter | December 16, 2007 8:14 PM
The video wasn't as good as the original Jack Chick comic.
Posted by: Bill in NC | December 16, 2007 8:52 PM
No, Christians are generally not persecuted by the US government. A quick Google search of "HR 847" will prove it.
PZ blogged this a while back, and mentions another dimension: there was a Jewish student in the class, and the teacher decided to show it on the first day of Chanukkah. Which adds a whole new dimension and will make it a little easier to get him fired.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/12/north_dakota_teacher_threatens.php
Posted by: Skwee | December 16, 2007 9:05 PM
Since when do the Evangelicals believe in purgatory? I thought their whole idea was that one who did not believe would go immediately to hell; not to some holding tank.
Also, had to love the part "p.s. Wish you were here."
Trust me, this video will not be shown to my eighth grade confirmation class.
I can't believe this teacher kept his job. If I had a Sunday school teacher show this, I would ask for him/her to stop teaching-and they are voluteers.
Posted by: Rev. AJB | December 17, 2007 12:14 AM
Trust me, this video will not be shown to my eighth grade confirmation class.
Why not? Show it to them. At the end, state "Discuss the theological soundness or otherwise of the argument this video is making."
I'd love to see the results.
Posted by: Justin Moretti | December 17, 2007 7:37 AM
I'm laughing so hard.
Strange, but this "God" cannot make himself known any other way but for one teenager to tell another teenager? This merciful "God" had no mercy for poor little Josh who wanted to repent at the gate?
But, please, don't get me started on the coworkers admonition. I just left a job where I was harrassed for being openly Atheist that I went all the way up to the Division of Human Rights -- and this at a state agency. The Division of Human Rights eventually determined that pics of Jesus posted on every desk around me didn't amount to harrassment since they didn't label him with his name while refusing to address the verbal harrassment I received on a daily basis and dismissing the things that were labelled because when I put in the papers filing the complaint everything with wording (this was just after Newdow and one was a cartoon saying "it's either one nation under God or leave it") was mysteriously suddenly noticed by management and ordered removed, it was just a guy in a robe.
To proceed, I would have had to take it to court and I know I should but I don't have the means to take the necessary precautions to protect my family and myself and didn't fancy becoming a martyr for the cause since I don't believe there will be 72 hunky males making it worth my while after I'm dead. My friends, including Christian friends, who told me in private that I was being treated wrongly were also too cowardly to come to my defense and even told me as much. Fortunately, I am at a new job that I love. Sadly, even though my coworkers here don't seem that retarded, I'm not taking any chances. I am not coming out of the closet. At most, I'll just say I'm not much of a church goer. Yes, this is what this country has come to.
Frankly, however, and this my Christian friends (cowards though they be) did agree with me on, those who harrassed me were hypocrites who didn't believe any more than I do. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it because, frankly, if you really believe in God A) he doesn't need some puny human like you to protect him, B) a puny human unbeliever is no threat to him and C) you're supposed to leave judgment in his hands and to act in his stead instead of doing so is downright blaphemous.
Okay, I'm not laughing any more.
Posted by: Donna | December 17, 2007 10:36 AM
And now, what about doing the same thing with the alternate story, the one in which the good Christian dies ? (bitten by a poisonous snake, or struck by a seizure in church, or whatever...). That would be "A letter from heaven".
"Dear Josh,
Seems like you were right and I was wrong. It's unbearably boring here. This constant harp music gets on my nerves. No beer. No ice cream. Never one good movie. The angels, sure, they looke like pretty girls, but... well, you know what I mean. But worst of all is the people I'm with. Priests, pastors, bigots of all kind, I can't stand them anymore. They're so damn stupid! All the atheist scientists and godless artists are in that other place, so nobody here knows anything about science or culture. And, oh, by the way... it's definitely not a democracy here.
I beg you, stay away from that place!"
Posted by: Christophe Thill | December 17, 2007 10:43 AM
"Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."
Posted by: Engineer-Poet | December 17, 2007 6:44 PM
Skemono- Hell is high school for eternity.
How true. I can just see the Gate inscription now. Not "Abandon Hope Ye Who Enter" like that guy Dante said, but
"Learn It For The Test."
(shudder)
Posted by: Tyler | December 17, 2007 7:18 PM
Don't get carried away now. It goes like this:
Teaching about Islam = promoting Islam.
Honestly teaching about Christianity = Anti-Christian bias.
Supporting a tolerant environment for all students = advancing the homosexual agenda.
And of course:
Preaching a hellfire and damnation fundamentalist Christian tent-revival sermon complete with snake handling and speaking in tongues = Normal public school education.
Posted by: Brent Rasmussen | December 18, 2007 2:14 PM
To be fair, the material about Islam which reaches US classrooms appears to be a whitewash and makes it out to be all sweetness and light and quaint customs. It leaves out all the stuff about subjugating women, the obligation to make kaffirs submit to their inferior status, the obligation to kill heretics and apostates (and why the Shi'a are heretics to the Sunni and vice versa), and everything else which explains why the Islamic world is the way it is.
A real analysis would explain why the Umma has been in such lousy shape relative to societies which have embraced the Enlightenment. But you're not going to get this into public schools, because it would be "insensitive" and "judgemental". Since the alternative borders on prosyletizing, it shouldn't be "taught" at all.
(I think it should be taught, every wart exposed. Not only would it eliminate the attraction of Islam in the USA, it would make students question other religious orthodoxies as well. It would be a great way to slip subversive material past the Xian fundamentalists.)
Posted by: Engineer-Poet | December 19, 2007 12:38 AM