Ed Brayton is a freelance writer and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
Found this at Pam's House Blend. It's a letter from a high school senior whose mother died in the Oklahoma City bombing. He's not happy about Kern claiming that gays are worse than terrorists and he tells her so with great eloquence. Full text below the fold:
Rep Kern:On April 19, 1995, in Oklahoma City a terrorist detonated a bomb that killed my mother and 167 others. 19 children died that day. Had I not had the chicken pox that day, the body count would've likely have included one more. Over 800 other Oklahomans were injured that day and many of those still suffer through their permanent wounds.
That terrorist was neither a homosexual or was he involved in Islam. He was an extremist Christian forcing his views through a body count. He held his beliefs and made those who didn't live up to them pay with their lives.
As you were not a resident of Oklahoma on that day, it could be explained why you so carelessly chose words saying that the homosexual agenda is worst than terrorism. I can most certainly tell you through my own experience that is not true. I am sure there are many people in your voting district that laid a loved one to death after the terrorist attack on Oklahoma City. I kind of doubt you'll find one of them that will agree with you.
I was five years old when my mother died. I remember what a beautiful, wise, and remarkable woman she was. I miss her. Your harsh words and misguided beliefs brought me to tears, because you told me that my mother's killer was a better person than a group of people that are seeking safety and tolerance for themselves.
As someone left motherless and victimized by terrorists, I say to you very clearly you are absolutely wrong.
You represent a district in Oklahoma City and you very coldly express a lack of love, sympathy or understanding for what they've been through. Can I ask if you might have chosen wiser words were you a real Oklahoman that was here to share the suffering with Oklahoma City? Might your heart be a bit less cold had you been around to see the small bodies of children being pulled out of rubble and carried away by weeping firemen?
I've spent 12 years in Oklahoma public schools and never once have I had anyone try to force a gay agenda on me. I have seen, however, many gay students beat up and there's never a day in school that has went by when I haven't heard the word **** slung at someone. I've been called gay slurs many times and they hurt and I am not even gay so I can just imagine how a real gay person feels. You were a school teacher and you have seen those things too. How could you care so little about the suffering of some of your students?
Let me tell you the result of your words in my school. Every openly gay and suspected gay in the school were having to walk together Monday for protection. They looked scared. They've already experienced enough hate and now your words gave other students even more motivation to sneer at them and call them names. Afterall, you are a teacher and a lawmaker, many young people have taken your words to heart. That happens when you assume a role of responsibility in your community. I seriously think before this week ends that some kids here will be going home bruised and bloody because of what you said.
I wish you could've met my mom. Maybe she could've guided you in how a real Christian should be acting and speaking.
I have not had a mother for nearly 13 years now and wonder if there were fewer people like you around, people with more love and tolerance in their hearts instead of strife, if my mom would be here to watch me graduate from high school this spring. Now she won't be there. So I'll be packing my things and leaving Oklahoma to go to college elsewhere and one day be a writer and I have no intentions to ever return here. I have no doubt that people like you will incite crazy people to build more bombs and kill more people again. I don't want to be here for that. I just can't go through that again.
You may just see me as a kid, but let me try to teach you something. The old saying is sticks and stones will break your bones, but words will never hurt you. Well, your words hurt me. Your words disrespected the memory of my mom. Your words can cause others to pick up sticks and stones and hurt others.
Sincerely
Tucker
What is it with kids writing brilliant letters these days? Whatever it is, let's see more of it. Nice job, Tucker.
Comments
I had added a comment to the earlier Kern thread, but since it has rolled of the front page I will repeat it here. The gossip site perezhilton.com reports that Kern has a gay son I had seen one veiled allusion to that on an Oklahoma City based blog earlier.
Posted by: carlsonjok | March 13, 2008 9:56 AM
That was beautiful. This should be spread far and wide.
Posted by: Vic | March 13, 2008 10:01 AM
Outstanding letter - and I think Vic is 100% right, it should be spread far and wide.
Posted by: J-Dog | March 13, 2008 10:06 AM
That is definitely a great letter! I hope Kern actually reads this and realizes the follies of his type of thinking. On a side not, it's nice to see younger people with writing skills in this age of text messaging.
Posted by: llDayo | March 13, 2008 10:20 AM
And silly me, I forgot the 'e' in note.
Posted by: llDayo | March 13, 2008 10:21 AM
Wow, that was brilliantly put. I especially like this bit:
Your harsh words and misguided beliefs brought me to tears, because you told me that my mother's killer was a better person than a group of people that are seeking safety and tolerance for themselves.
As for Sally Kern, well, she can lick my anus for all I care.
Posted by: Jacob | March 13, 2008 10:24 AM
Re Sally Kern has a gay son
Just like her fellow bigot, Phillis Schlafly.
Posted by: SLC | March 13, 2008 10:36 AM
I just want the mention the irony that Sally Kern still has a job in government while Elliot Spitzer doesn't.
Compare the potential for causing harm to others in their individual actions.
What does this say about what we consider important and what we don't?
Posted by: Jim Ramsey | March 13, 2008 11:07 AM
Alan Keyes also has a lesbian daughter.
Posted by: tacitus | March 13, 2008 11:12 AM
My only quibble with Tucker's letter is that I think it is incorrect to call Timothy McVeigh a "an extremist Christian". According to his own words he was at best a lapsed Catholic or possibly an agnostic.
Posted by: BenC | March 13, 2008 11:20 AM
Unfortunately, it is all too likely that arguments such as this will make little impact on people like Sally Kern, because they have learned to frame the issue in a way which places the blame for this kind of violence on "people who have turned away from God." If she were to respond to this young man, it would probably be with the reassurance that she IS on his side. She wants to stop the "homosexual agenda" of gaining social acceptance for 'deviance' because she grieves for all the victims of terrorism. She sees and feels the horrible results of sin, and wants to stop it by getting to the root of the problem, and not just treating symptoms.
In her world, it all comes down to our relationship with God. Always. Everything else is smoke.
For those with a magical view of cause-and-effect, rational analysis of direct physical causes for the bombing -- such as spelled out in the letter -- neglects to address the underlying, spiritual malaise which is the actual source, the real reason the Oklahoma bomber did what he did, and people died. We've failed to pay God His due respect.
She's the equivalent of someone who insists that the true cause of cancer is "imbalances in subtle life energies," which allow the cancer cells to take hold. This is a wall. You cannot argue against an unfalsifiable theory.
Posted by: Sastra | March 13, 2008 11:43 AM
Am I just a cynic, or does anyone else think that this part won't bother Kern at all?
This is a brilliant letter, and I hope Kern gets the message loud and clear.
Posted by: James Hanley | March 13, 2008 11:50 AM
Absolutely beautiful. WTG Tucker. I particulaly like how he explains the real work consiquences of Kern's speech, the fear, hate, and pain she's created.
Posted by: Abby Normal | March 13, 2008 12:01 PM
Can I take a mulligan on that last sentence? I should read: I particularly like how he explains the real world consequences of Kern's speech, the fear, hate, and pain she's created.
Posted by: Abby Normal | March 13, 2008 12:30 PM
Sastra - wha?
Dayo, the pain and sentiment was strong but I hope my sons write better than this when they're 18.
Posted by: Andrea | March 13, 2008 1:29 PM
So can we nominate this kid as an honorary inductee into the Order of the Molly, or is it still too early?
Posted by: BruceH | March 13, 2008 1:59 PM
Rep. Kern's anti-gay remarks are clearly bigoted and reprehensible not to mention unbelievably ignorant.
I especially liked the comment where she says no society that has embraced homosexuality has lasted more than a "few decades". Maybe she should read a bit about the role of pederasty in the birth place of western civilization, ancient Greece. Of course I'm betting she doesn't read above an eight grade level and probably only paperbacks from the local Christian bookstore.
Unfortunately her opinions probably reflect those of the majority of the people that voted for her.
She has the right to express these idiotic and hateful ideas under the first amendment. People in her district have the right to vote for her opponents, if they so choose, in upcoming elections.
I am an atheist but I must point out that, despite what young Tucker says in his plucky reply to Rep. Kern, Timothy McVeigh was not an "extremist Christian". He really wasn't a Christian of any stripe. In fact his own letters and interviews indicate he was something of an agnostic.
It would appear that in his zeal to reprimand Rep. Kern for making anti-gay remarks Tucker has tried to link the most infamous "terrorist" act perpetrated on American soil" to Christianity.
Maybe Tucker will be getting a letter recounting the plight of young "extremist Christian" (whatever that might mean)kids that are being threatened because of his "hateful" letter.
I think Tucker's point could have been made without attempting to demonize another group of people.
Posted by: Lance | March 13, 2008 5:43 PM
That's an excellent letter. I'm going to print it up and share it with some of my coworkers at OSU. It's especially poignant that Tucker is a victim of real, American-bred terrorism, which brings to light the mind-blowing absurdity and dangerous bigotry in Kern's rants. It pisses me off that drooling idiots like Kern have to open old wounds for people like Tucker just to serve their twisted anti-gay agendas. Absolutely sickening.
Posted by: Wes | March 13, 2008 5:49 PM
Beautiful piece of work, Tucker. If there were any justice in the world, this letter would be the Joseph Welch ("At long last, sir, have you no sense of decency?") moment for the religious right.
Posted by: John | March 13, 2008 5:57 PM
Eloquent in the way Martin Luther King was eloquent. Tugging at the heart while making one think of how each of us can help make the world a little better, instead of harder.
This young man has a goal of being a writer. I have a prediction; his loss will make him stronger than he now knows. He will succeed because hurt he endured, and the loss he still feels will fuel his creativity, making him more sensitized to the world around him. Godspeed, Tucker.
Posted by: Shagata Ganai | March 13, 2008 6:14 PM
That, is perfect. I have been searching my heart for the words to reply to Sally Kern and her like-minded supporters...and then I found them here. Exactly the words that needed to be said, and now need to be heard.
I reposted that verbatim in my own humble journal. I hope you don't mind?
Posted by: ristin | March 13, 2008 6:43 PM
Tucker's response to the hateful Sally Kern is perfect. I could not have expressed it better myself, and I'm a writer. Besides, it comes from his own experience. His grammar and spelling aren't perfect(something he'll have to work on if he wants to be a writer), but the way he juxtaposes the pain he still feels at the loss of his mother at age 5, and the disgustingly ignorant comments of Ms. Kern, are "right on"! I think he *will* become an excellent writer one day. And I will eagerly await whatever it is he is going to write.
Anne G
Posted by: Anne Gilbert | March 13, 2008 7:30 PM
Really moving. I think it would do a lot better, however, if it didn't contain a probably factually inaccurate accusation about McVeigh's motivations at the beginning. McVeigh was an extremist and a Christian, but not an extremist Christian, and his views were not about religion, but rather hatred for the government and lionizing of things like Waco and Ruby Ridge.
Posted by: Bad | March 13, 2008 7:32 PM
That was an incredibly moving and eloquent letter. Absolutely perfect.
Posted by: Matthew Block | March 13, 2008 7:50 PM
BAD - within the context, is your complaint concerning "McVeigh was an extremist and a Christian, but not an extremist Christian" of any real relevance at all ?
Posted by: Venusian | March 13, 2008 8:18 PM
I especially like the part in her speech where she claims that homosexuals have shorter life spans and higher disease rates...well heres a fact for you kern, the highest demographic for contracting aids (a long thought "gay" disease) is young american girls age 13-16. her hatred is dispicable and i can not understand how she can call her self a person of god. everyone has a right to be themselves GOD gave me free will and judgement is reserved to only him. I'm not even a christian and i know this much.
Posted by: Mark | March 13, 2008 8:27 PM
I especially like the part in her speech where she claims that homosexuals have shorter life spans and higher disease rates...well heres a fact for you kern, the highest demographic for contracting aids (a long thought "gay" disease) is young american girls age 13-16. her hatred is dispicable and i can not understand how she can call her self a person of god. everyone has a right to be themselves GOD gave me free will and judgement is reserved to only him. I'm not even a christian and i know this much.
Posted by: Mark | March 13, 2008 8:29 PM
Tucker writes so very well for someone who is perfectly within their rights to completely fly off the handle. This woman is pathetic for attempting to grab political points by stirring up the sort of hate-filled mindset that cost this guy (and many others) his mother.
Posted by: devolute | March 13, 2008 8:37 PM
When we gays recruit one to our team do we still get a toaster? 'Cuz I've got my eyes on a nice Proctor-Silex 4-slicer with bagel toaster.
Posted by: Carl | March 13, 2008 10:10 PM
Oh no, Tucker. They gays have gotten to you and brainwashed your mind!! :)
Great letter, I hope she and her sick little fans get a chance to read it, but it seems the sort of people who agree with her are too busy panicking and having secret meetings! Probably building shelters to protect them fom us.
Posted by: Tim | March 13, 2008 11:06 PM
Why do we have these insane bigots running our country? Honestly i think every single gay person in america should send sally Kern a letter saying they are not violent,radical, or forcing their beliefs on people. All they want is happiness for themselves and their fellow American. All they want is to be left alone in the peace and comfort of their own home with the ones they love. It obviously seems that this sally kern would much rather see people suffering than happy.
Posted by: k | March 14, 2008 12:13 AM
And they say the public schools are failing...
Well said!
Posted by: John | March 14, 2008 5:00 AM
Religion Kills
Posted by: Wolfie Rankin | March 14, 2008 7:37 AM
". . . every single gay person in america should send sally Kern a letter saying they are not . . . forcing their beliefs on people."
It is accurate - no one is forcing anything by writing letters. Kern can just refuse to read. She will definitely make up her own mind. However, a deluge of letters saying they're not forcing ideas on anyone does have a touch of irony.
Posted by: SDyuaa | March 14, 2008 7:47 AM
This was an amazing letter. I doubt she'd ever read it or take it to heart. She doesn't sound like a very smart person.
Ah self proclaimed conservative Christians, so many are so un-Christ-like.
I guess what this really shows is how our education system is failing to teach people critical thinking skills. That woman is just not intelligent and sadly, I guess there are still so many wlike her and follow right along to dumb-dumbville.
Posted by: ks | March 14, 2008 9:42 AM
Lance, I believe that one limitation on freedom of speech is inciting hatred and violence, as it's likely to cause real-world hurt.
Posted by: Monado, FCD | March 14, 2008 11:36 AM
McVeigh wasn't an extremist Christian. He was totally uninterested in religion. But that aside, it is an extarordinary and powerful - and accurate - letter.
Posted by: Chase | March 14, 2008 12:57 PM
Monado FCD,
Rep. Kern's remarks while ignorant and reprehensible are completely protected speech under the first amendment. She is not inciting violence or making specific threats of harm to anyone. I see in above posts statements like "religion kills" that would no doubt be deeply offensive and hurtful to religious people.
As I believe our host Ed would concur the first amendment is there to protect unpopular speech. Popular speech needs no such protection.
Posted by: Lance | March 14, 2008 2:30 PM
Timothy McVeigh was at least strongly tied to, and Terry Nichols was actually a member of (according to his own brother), the "Christian Identity" (link goes to Wikipedia entry) movement.
That clearly links Christian extremism with the bombing.
Posted by: Benjamin Franz | March 14, 2008 2:58 PM
Tucker is my hero today!
I know that Kern and her ilk have a picture in their minds of what the gay agenda is (to make everyone gay, of course, booga BOOGA!) However, I believe that deep in their deluded hearts that they know this is untrue.
They have to think this way because they dare not allow themselves to realize what their REAL fear is:
If LBGT folk are allowed to have all the rights and privileges accorded to every citizen, they'll prove to be happy, healthy, productive and contributing members of society. Which would make the gay-bashers and their god WRONG.
Posted by: twincats | March 14, 2008 3:48 PM
Benjamin Franz,
I have attended many Catholic masses and many of my closest friends are catholic, does that mean that if I bomb the Pentagon that we could say that it was "clearly linked" to Catholicism?
Timothy McVeigh has been used by many opportunistic people and groups, such as the slimy Morris Dees and his Southern Poverty Law Center, to try to smear everything from the "Christian Identity" movement to the "Aryan Nation" to "militia" groups.
While many of these groups are despicable in their own right they were not responsible for Timothy McVeigh's actions. Timothy McVeigh was responsible, along with the assistance of Terry Nichols, for the bombing.
That you continue to try to exploit the issue to demonize a group with only the most tenuous connection to the incident demonstrates either ignorance on the issue or an attempt to exploit the situation to malign a group that you personally disdain.
Posted by: Lance | March 14, 2008 5:31 PM
Re Lance
1. Mr. Lance, the leading global warming denier over at the intersection blog, weighs in with a smear against Morris Dees who he refers to as slimy. Mr. Lance is the slime off the bottom of the cesspool.
2. Earlier on, Mr. Lance invoked freedom of speech to defend Ms. Kern. Well, I am going to use my freedom of speech to declare that Mr. Lance is a lying, fucktard asshole.
Posted by: SLC | March 14, 2008 7:28 PM
Too bad Timothy McVeigh never claimed to be killing for God or Christ, never quoted scripture to justify his deeds. Why? Because Timothy McVeigh was not a Christian. This article is full of fail.
Posted by: James | March 14, 2008 8:32 PM
"Full of fail"? You found one *possible* yet unproven inaccuracy, and now it's full of fail?
You're full of quite something else, James.
Posted by: Rob van Kan | March 15, 2008 4:49 AM
Gays are more dangerous than terrorists! I would rather live next door to a Muslim extremist than a queer property value-ruining American!
Posted by: The Wire | March 15, 2008 10:39 AM
Absolutely brilliant piece. Today, more than ever, our elected officials are too careless with their words and actions. I am glad that this story is receiving tremendous press, for it highlights the stupidity that is growing in America.
Posted by: Meg Henessy | March 15, 2008 10:54 AM
Wow. Tucker, you are right on the money. Gays are a threat to no one except maybe those who question their own manhood. They are not a disease that is contagious. You can not "catch" gay. However, you can be killed by a terrorist. Kern's bigoted and discriminatory remarks are disgusting. Kern and her kind are more dangerous for America and the world then the gays could ever be. By spreading her bigotry and hatred she has become a terrorist herself. Probably why she doesn't see terrorists as a threat, since she is one.
Posted by: Alec | March 15, 2008 11:14 AM
Here's my suggestion. Send Ms Kerns a picture every day of someone killed by McVeigh. Just a picture and a note enclosed to say killed by a Christian terrorist.
This way every day she opens the mail she can get a good look at how completely ignorant and incompetent she is as a human.
Excellent work rocking the vote Oklahoma
Posted by: Bill Lehecka | March 15, 2008 11:18 AM
I was just about to comment on how respectful people seemed to be...and then the last couple of posts proved me wrong.
Coincidence that Fark just linked to this site?
Way to go, Farkers. Thanks for adding to today's troll ratio.
Posted by: Allison | March 15, 2008 11:18 AM
Kern is a deeply religious woman. She is not homophobic, she is not anti gay. She is against the agenda of gays who seek not equality but superiority in our society. She resents the elite status that gays receive in education, the media, the arts and culturally. She feels that as gay power expands, her traditionalist power will suffer as a result.
To simply say she is just a hater with a black heart is the epitome of disingenuousness. Rather than try to understand her it is easier to label her as one who is evil and thus anything she says need not be considered.
Imagine for a moment that if in the community you live in experienced a sudden influx of Mormons. Hundreds of Mormon families moved in and soon they began exercising their political clout. Imagine that they became influential with the local school board and a new, very Mormon friendly curriculum was put in place. Would you embrace the new curriculum with open arms or would it cause you some pangs unease?
If you did not support the new Mormon friendly educational changes would you be rightly considered an anti Mormon bigot? Would your opposition mean that you were promoting violence against Mormons? No, clearly you would not. You would merely be just a parent who was concerned that a different educational scheme might teach your children lessons you did not agree with. Does that make you an evil person?
Kerns is merely feeling the pinch of a zero sum game in which her beliefs are being squeezed out while gay friendly beliefs are expanding.
Posted by: Ken J | March 15, 2008 11:19 AM
Japanese samurai got much samurai trainee booty. And as we all know, Japan has crumbled into the sea.
Shudō (衆道, shudō) is the Japanese tradition of age-structured homosexuality prevalent in samurai society from the medieval period until the end of the 19th century.
In other words, those brave samurai were pounding their trainees.
Posted by: Namae | March 15, 2008 11:23 AM
thank you tucker. no one could say it any better.
although i did not lose a loved one, i remember that day too well.
i had just turned the tv on when scenes were being shown of the building. i was playing with my son after breakfast, and at first thought it was a movie. not untill my son was playing with the dog did i pay attention.
when i did i began to cry. when my son stopped and ran to me wondering what was wrong, i had to turn the tv off.
i picked him up and let him know how much he was loved.
for an elected official for that area to be that callous and biggoted, it goes beyond anything i would think of.
kerns needs to retract and step down.
by the way, if i lived there, it could have been my son there too. he was 4yr old at time. this military father and sheriff deputy at the time cried knowing it could have been mine there.
Posted by: jstesprit | March 15, 2008 11:33 AM
"Queer property value-ruining American" Come on The Wire. Everyone knows gays have better style and taste and will enhance the property value with their redecoration. Plus you don't have to worry about them running off with your wife. I've met more gays and lesbian with respectable values and morals than heterosexuals. /okay that was a stereotype but The Wire should be thrown into the same needing an ass whooping crowd as Sally Kern.
Posted by: Lady A | March 15, 2008 11:33 AM
Nice job, Tucker! Good luck in your future endeavors - you're going to do well out there!
Posted by: Al Denton | March 15, 2008 11:38 AM
No, Kern is frustrated that her absolute dominance and ability to command and control is threatened. It isn't that she's worried about gays gaining "superiority" (and nobody is trying to get "superiority"; that's a load of hogwash). It's that she is worried she's going to lose HER superiority.
There's no "zero sum" game in freedom. Extremists love to paint things that way-- that it's always "us" versus "them," and somebody has to win, and somebody else has to lose. It's not true. Don't buy it.
Everybody can be free and everybody can be equal. It just requires people like Sally Kern to stop being "more equal" than everybody else.
The price you pay for freedom is that you don't have the right to tell everybody else how they're allowed to live. What you get for that price is that nobody else can tell you how you're allowed to live either.
This country is still firmly and extremely slanted in the direction of the puritanical prudes (like Kern) telling everyone else what to do. They're slowly losing their stranglehold on discourse... and that's a good thing.
Posted by: spatula | March 15, 2008 11:43 AM
Who is running against this Kern bigot and where can I sign up to support him or her? She is a blot on the escutcheon of Oklahoma city and sounds a follower of the loathsome Fred Phelps, the Utah Taliban leader who desecrates the funerals of Iraq vets because the Army contains some homosexuals.
Great letter. The young man would make a much better congressman than Ms. Kern.
Posted by: Willobie | March 15, 2008 11:44 AM
"Rather than try to understand her it is easier to label her as one who is evil and thus anything she says need not be considered."
Oh, I'm considering what she said, all right. Remember that part? That gays are more dangerous to America than terrorists? Even given the maximum benefit of the doubt, that is still profoundly ignorant and demonstrates a clear lack of perspective on what is important to her country.
Not to mention, as well, Tucker's well-described effect her words have had on young homosexuals. That also makes Kern's words thoughtless as well as foolish.
"She is against the agenda of gays who seek not equality but superiority in our society. She resents the elite status that gays receive in education, the media, the arts and culturally."
You are on a completely different planet, aren't you? One on which you don't actually know any gay people, and therefore buy into every single stereotype you hear. Your own ignorance is as deep as Kern's.
Posted by: Matt | March 15, 2008 11:45 AM
to wire and the ilk that agree with him/her.
i am glad tucker has more compassion than you. for you foment hatred and intollerence.
i trully hope you are not of my community!
Posted by: jstesprit | March 15, 2008 11:46 AM
Ken J wrote:
You say that as though there was some conflict between being "deeply religious" and being an anti-gay bigot. In fact, they often go hand in hand. Kern is deeply religious AND she's an anti-gay bigot. The fact that she thinks gays are worse than terrorists is all the evidence one could possibly need for that conclusion.
Great. Now if there actually was such an agenda, she might have a point. But there isn't. The only place such an agenda exists is in the fevered imagination of ignorant bigots.
Why don't you go and tell the 80% of gay teenagers who are the targets of harassment, intimidation and, far too often, outright violence, all about their "elite status." I'm sure they'll be thrilled to hear how elite their status is while their classmates are yelling "faggot" at them as they walk down the hall, stuffing them in their lockers and beating them up on the way home from school. Go tell the family of the 15 year old in Florida who was killed by a classmate because he asked him to be his valentine that they should stop whining about their son's murder because gays have an elite status in our society.
Close. She's afraid that as society increasingly recognizes that gays are human beings with all the same rights as every other human being, she and her fellow bigots will no longer be allowed to discriminate against them and throw them in jail. Gosh, I'm so sorry that she's feeling bad about that. Really, I am. I hear the world's tiniest violent playing in the distance.
You mean like she does when she dismisses gays as worse than terrorists?
Posted by: Ed Brayton | March 15, 2008 11:57 AM
Ken J:
"Superiority"? "Zero-sum game"? The most charitable way I can interpret your comment is that you're accusing Kern of tilting at windmills. The fact is that what you describe -- a paranoid reaction to influences perceived as unfamiliar -- is the very essence of prejudicial hate.
Posted by: Brian X | March 15, 2008 12:03 PM
"You are on a completely different planet, aren't you? One on which you don't actually know any gay people, and therefore buy into every single stereotype you hear. Your own ignorance is as deep as Kern's."
Thanks Matt, you proved my point exactly. Don't like my opinion? Then don't debate it, merely criticize me as a person instead.
Posted by: Ken J | March 15, 2008 12:04 PM
If you're going to try an analogy, at least use a correct one.
Let's say some Mormons start moving into my neighborhood, to use your example. (I personally wouldn't care.) Then let's suppose that neighborhood kids start beating up the Mormons just because they're Mormon. The Mormons don't like this, so they try to get a rule passed in the HOA that says it isn't okay to beat up Mormons. And then I start the "Campaign to Protect Families" to oppose the rule, saying that it equates to "special rights" for Mormons that my kids aren't allowed to beat them up.
Then I say that Mormons are a bigger threat than terrorists but proclaim that I'm emphatically "not anti-Mormon" (some of my best friends are Mormon). I just want "my own kind" to have a "fair" shake, which I presumably cannot do if Mormons are allowed to exist without getting beaten up by my kids.
Posted by: spatula | March 15, 2008 12:13 PM
KenJ wrote:
In order for your analogy to work, the "new Mormon-friendly educational changes" would have to be along the lines of reassuring the school children that "Mormons can be good citizens and have happy families, too -- welcome them to the neighborhood!" So yes, if I were to argue that Mormons, simply by being Mormon, no longer deserve to be treated with ordinary consideration and judged on their individual merits of character and behavior, then I would rightly be considered an anti-Mormon bigot.
Posted by: Sastra | March 15, 2008 12:17 PM
"The fact is that what you describe -- a paranoid reaction to influences perceived as unfamiliar -- is the very essence of prejudicial hate."
Great point Brian. Using your logic, if Kerns had instead said "Republicans were worse than terrorists" then you would denounce her for being paranoid and prejudicial. Good to see that you are carrying the GOPs water Brian.
Posted by: Ken J | March 15, 2008 12:21 PM
This will be a free country when people are comfortable living anywhere in it without fear of being judged by their inherent characteristics.
Good job, Tucker. You'll do well as a writer. You're already expressing yourself far better and more clearly than most of the "journalists" on either end of the political spectrum.
Posted by: sparticle | March 15, 2008 12:23 PM
Once in a while, there's a discussion on catholicfundamentalism.com that sympathetically brings up the point that those in the gay community have life expectancies about thirty years less than heterosexuals.
In that way, there is a real danger to a movement that encourages life-shortening practices.
Appreciate it if someone would help us understand how that result is different than terrorism's.
Posted by: badams | March 15, 2008 12:26 PM
"In order for your analogy to work, the "new Mormon-friendly educational changes" would have to be along the lines of reassuring the school children that "Mormons can be good citizens and have happy families, too -- welcome them to the neighborhood!""
It goes further than that Sastra. Gay people can and are good citizens, they can and do have happy families, and yes they are welcome your and my neighborhoods. I think Kerns is concerned about not just acceptance but the promotion of the gay lifestyle. To make the gay lifestyle an elite, protected class separate and above the 90% of Americans that are straight.
Posted by: Ken J | March 15, 2008 12:33 PM
The Book says, " and a little child will lead them". If they will listen. Thanks Tucker
Posted by: Skypilot | March 15, 2008 12:37 PM
"No, Kern is frustrated that her absolute dominance and ability to command and control is threatened. It isn't that she's worried about gays gaining "superiority" (and nobody is trying to get "superiority"; that's a load of hogwash). It's that she is worried she's going to lose HER superiority."
Spatula, your comments show that you have a firm grasp of Post Modern philosophy. Do you really believe that Kerns and other born again Christians enjoy absolute dominance?
Posted by: Ken J | March 15, 2008 12:38 PM
Ken, your comment kills me with irony.
You DO know the Mormons wound up in Utah because, you know, they kept getting beat up and driven out of town by their neighbors, yes?
As other commenters have observed - there is not a gay agenda for superiority. They don't have elite status in anything in our country. They are discriminated against in just about every way possible.
No, it sounds to me like you and Kern and others of your stripe fear for your own comfort and cultural supremacy.
Posted by: The Rotund | March 15, 2008 12:45 PM
badams, could you explain what these life shortening practices are, and how they are being encouraged?
Posted by: Matt | March 15, 2008 12:46 PM
Excellent letter, Tucker. Extremely well written. Your words will hopefully bring change in the hearts of many.
Posted by: JB | March 15, 2008 12:48 PM
Ken: your response to my post is logical gibberish and I won't dignify it with a defense. Suffice to say you're a liar as much as you're an apologist to hate, and I will let better debaters than I complete the process of tearing your "argument" to shreds.
Posted by: Brian X | March 15, 2008 12:52 PM
"They are discriminated against in just about every way possible."
Rotund, this is why gay people have elite status. They have achieved the special status of being uncriticizeable. Do you realize that I could stand in the middle of Times Sq with a loudspeaker yelling "Born again Christians are lying, power hungry, oppressive, evil bastards" and nothing would happen to me. But if I wrote a letter to the editor of a tiny local news paper stating that I had moral issues with schools promoting the gay lifestyle, that I would be hated, harassed, and most likely be fired and treated as an outcast?
Rotund, that kind of power my friend is of the kind only the true elite enjoy.
Posted by: Ken J | March 15, 2008 1:05 PM
"Thanks Matt, you proved my point exactly. Don't like my opinion? Then don't debate it, merely criticize me as a person instead."
Truly your masterful rhetoric has led me right into your trap!
OK, here's your debate: show me where gays have an elite status. Show me where they seek an agenda of superiority. Go on. Show me anything to back up your opinion, and we'll discuss it.
Posted by: Not that last Matt, first, different Matt | March 15, 2008 1:05 PM
Just when I think I'm too jaded and desensitized to be brought to tears by anything someone writes something like this! If more of todays youth have Tucker's mindset there might be a future for the USA yet. Does anyone know if Rep. Kerns office commented on this?
Posted by: Bret | March 15, 2008 1:06 PM
"But if I wrote a letter to the editor of a tiny local news paper stating that I had moral issues with schools promoting the gay lifestyle, that I would be hated, harassed, and most likely be fired and treated as an outcast?"
Being in Tennessee, I see letters to the editor like that all the time. The authors are scarcely considered pariahs, nor do they face any reprisals that you imagine. Try again. Kern is facing public scrutiny like this because she is a public figure elected to represent ALL of her constituents.
Posted by: Same Matt | March 15, 2008 1:08 PM
"Ken: your response to my post is logical gibberish and I won't dignify it with a defense. Suffice to say you're a liar as much as you're an apologist to hate,..."
Thanks Brian for your kind words. It is heartwarming to know that two adults who have never met can have a rational discussion, stick to the facts, and not let emotion and invective enter into the fray.
Well done sir!
Posted by: Ken J | March 15, 2008 1:10 PM
To both Matts, sorry if I am confusing you with one another.
"Kern is facing public scrutiny like this because she is a public figure elected to represent ALL of her constituents."
Good point and I agree with you.
Posted by: Ken J | March 15, 2008 1:13 PM
Ken J wrote:
I am having problems figuring out what you mean, specifically -- where the "elite" part is coming in here. My understanding is that gay people want to be accepted into the mainstream, and not singled out and treated differently just because they are homosexual. The "promotion of the gay lifestyle" is nothing more than promoting it to be placed on the same level as the heterosexual lifestyle, one variation of sexuality. When relating to gays, one should 'set aside' the differences as less important than the similarities.
Gay people have no special system of "beliefs" akin to the Mormon religion which can be taught or promulgated. In your analogy, the implication was that the schools were going to teach Mormon theology as truth, and treat the Mormons as God's chosen people with privileges over others. A closer analogy, as I said, would be encouraging the children to set aside their differences and accept them as ordinary people, first.
And Sally Kern does indeed have a problem with that sort of "acceptance." She doesn't want them seen as ordinary -- but as dangerous deviants, moral criminals. She's the one who wants the differences promoted, for that reason.
Posted by: Sastra | March 15, 2008 1:22 PM
"Truly your masterful rhetoric has led me right into your trap!
OK, here's your debate: show me where gays have an elite status. Show me where they seek an agenda of superiority. Go on. Show me anything to back up your opinion, and we'll discuss it."
No trap intended Matt. In fact I rarely ever wear a toga anymore.
The agenda of superiority exists in government:
The attempts to give Gay people special status. Assault is illegal to commit on anyone gay or straight, yet gays seek special laws making it a more serious crime to shove a gay person than it is to shove a straight person.
The agenda of superiority exists in entertainment:
Gays are always portrayed on tv and films as thoughtful, creative, generous, curious, unbiased defenders of truth and justice. Granted a majority of gay people (as well as straight people)posses these qualities but you will very rarely see any negative portrayals of gay people in films or tv. (the exception is the repressed republican who is a closeted gay and acts evil because he is ashamed of himself)
The agenda of superiority exists in education:
Similarly as with the media, educators at all levels present the gay lifestyle as an almost evolutionary jump in human development. Being gay is what we should all aspire to be.
The agenda of superiority exists in culturally:
Gays are considered an oppressed minority group that is owed something by our evil corrupt racist culture. Many African Americans take umbrage with the notion that gays are an equally oppressed and equally suffering minority group.
Posted by: Ken J | March 15, 2008 1:38 PM
The endless talk of "teh gay lifestyle" is tedious and pointless.
It's like bemoaning "the model train enthusiast lifestyle" in that they both are found in poor, middle class and rich people and folks of all races, religions, nationalities, education levels and political parties. There are probably even gay model train enthusiasts! The lifestyles of gays and model train enthusiasts are pretty much the lifestyles of anyone in the country.
Please note that I'm not saying they're equivalent. No one actually complains about the model train enthusiast lifestyle, of course, but in the scheme of things, who a person chooses to spend his/her life partnered with amounts to about as much if you're talking about "lifestyle."
Posted by: twincats | March 15, 2008 1:38 PM
Sastra I see your points and thank you (truly) for your intellectual arguments. People should be able to hold different opinions and debate subjects without insults and anger.
That said, why is it that openly gay people let everyone know that they are gay within a very short period after meeting them? If being gay was such a terrible, dangerous, burden to bear why is it gay people are so quick to self identify themselves as being such? Maybe it is because it bestows a special elite status upon the gay person.
Posted by: Ken J | March 15, 2008 1:53 PM
Tolerate, tolerate, tolerate. Never take a stand! With that kind of illogical statement, it's no wonder the world is heading for more and worse wars.
It's oppression to make people tolerate something they find repugnant or do not want in their lives. "Tolerance" favors the parasitic. While I don't agree with Kern's statements on gays either, I think we need to realize this street goes both ways.
Posted by: burnitdown | March 15, 2008 2:03 PM
All of these problems could be solved if it was really true that homosexuality was in fact genetic. If it was then we can simply abort the gay babies and exterminate homosexuality once and for all. Of course that would seriously screw up the interior decorators and most of us would be unable to color coordinate without a queer, but the world would be a better place without them.
Posted by: jeff | March 15, 2008 2:26 PM
Because, if there has been anything that has driven humankind to war time and again, it is an overabundance of tolerance for their fellow human beings?
Posted by: GoodGrief | March 15, 2008 2:27 PM
Kinda hilarious watching Ken J and Sally Kern and others like them get negative reactions to their anti-gay lies, and then moan and whine about how mean everyone is to them. They start off the whole conversation with vicious slanders and then when someone rises to the bait, they start whining about, "People should be able to hold different opinions and debate subjects without insults and anger." Hypocrites and babies who want to be exempt from the inevitable consequences of their rhetoric - if you're a nasty liar, a lot of people won't like you, and some of them will say so. Revelation!
I look forward to the point in our country's development a few decades from now when people like this are pretty generally recognized for the cranks they are, and marginalized in public discourse because of the simple fact that most people think they have nothing to say worth listening to.
Posted by: MPW | March 15, 2008 2:32 PM
Ken J wrote:
Do they? How do you know?
Perhaps 90% of the gay people you've met have never mentioned it. After all, your definition of being "openly gay" may come down to "those who let everyone know they are gay within a very short period after meeting them." In which case, it's not surprising that there's a correlation there.
I don't think I've ever had that happen to me, except in situations where it's significant to the discussion. So I don't see your point. I suppose that if that happens to you there might be a sense of "gay pride" on display, but that's hardly ominous. I see no more reason to think they want special elevated legal status because of that any more than someone who says "by the way, did you know I'm part Cherokee" or "I've been Born Again" or even "Guess what, I'm a Mormon!" I've had that sort of thing happen, and I'm not meant to feel intimidated or second class. At least, I assume I'm not.
Posted by: Sastra | March 15, 2008 2:33 PM