Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
I can't be the only one who cringes while reading this article about the king of Saudi Arabia proposing that the three major Abrahamic faiths work together to combat things they mutually dislike. That can't end well.
"If God wills it, we will then meet with our brothers from other religions, including those of the Torah and the Gospel to come up with ways to safeguard humanity," he added. The king, who is the guardian of the holy sites of Mecca and Medina, said the major faiths shared a desire to combat "the disintegration of the family and the rise of atheism in the world".
Here's the part that really provokes a reaction from me:
According to the official Saudi Press Agency King Abdullah said "I have noticed that the family system has weakened and that atheism has increased. That is an unacceptable behavior to all religions, to the Koran, the Torah and the Bible. We ask God to save humanity. There is a lack of ethics, loyalty and sincerity for our religions and humanity."
Okay, let's be blunt here: I'm just not inclined to accept lectures about ethics from a brutal dictator whose regime beheads people for being of the wrong religion, puts gay people to death and has roving gangs (they call them police) whose job is to beat women who leave the house unattended by a male relative. You're gonna lecture me on ethics, you fascist asshole? Fuck you. And your little god too.
Comments
I find his remarks rather humerous, as the Saudi royal family is pretty areligious. They "tolerate" the facist form of the Muslim faith in their country in order to maintain power. They do not trust the religious leaders in their country; nor do the religious leaders trust them. All they need is someone like Khomeni(sp?) to come into power and they are out on their inbred asses.
I had a member in my former church who worked as a diabetes specialist for two of King Fhad's great-grandchildren. She lived in Saudi Arabia for nine months. I can tell you from stories that she told me that this family is far from being the "pillars" of faith.
Posted by: Rev. AJB | March 27, 2008 10:41 AM
After more thought...I wonder if this change of heart has to do more with oil prices and the fear that the "Jews and Christians" who "run" the US will put pressure on the royal family?
Posted by: Rev. AJB | March 27, 2008 10:45 AM
Milquetoast. Or as we say in Idaho, milk-toast.
PZ would not have been so deferential to the religious sensitivities of the King.
*ducking*
Posted by: Sean | March 27, 2008 10:45 AM
Wow. PZ uses the same word and gets 200++ comments. I smell the filthy stench of inconsistency here. Maybe that's the stench of... FRAMING?!?
Posted by: FO | March 27, 2008 11:12 AM
Whats most interesting about alot of this is the 'traditional' family meme and how it has come to be used. They take something everyone likes, family, and then try to 'own' the word and enforce what they think it should look like.
Nevermind in all these cultures it looks quite different.
There never has been a 'traditional' family, it's a myth. The unit has always been in flux and I suspect always will be. It seems to be our species actual way of being.
Posted by: GH | March 27, 2008 11:34 AM
Far from allying with them, it is time to quit propping up these unpopular dictatorships in Muslim countries. That's most of the real reason Al Qaeda is upset with the US as I understand it.
Posted by: BaldApe | March 27, 2008 11:36 AM
GH:
I agree completely. Perhaps part of the problem is the use of "traditional" as if it meant "eternal." Many traditions are rather short-lived.
Posted by: BaldApe | March 27, 2008 11:41 AM
How about three major Abrahamic faiths work together to combat the fanatics within their own ranks?
Posted by: Taz | March 27, 2008 12:12 PM
Your response was pure awesomeness...I have nothing to add but a loud shout of:
BRAVO!
Posted by: cognitive dissident | March 27, 2008 12:39 PM
Yeah. Please put me down for some of this too.
" You're gonna lecture me on ethics, you fascist asshole? Fuck you. And your little god too."
Well said!
Posted by: J-Dog | March 27, 2008 12:48 PM
"If God wills it, we will then meet with our brothers from other religions, including those of the Torah and the Gospel to come up with ways to safeguard humanity."
"We ask God to save humanity."
So which is it? You and your brothers from other religions -- or God -- who's going to safeguard and save humanity?
My vote -- my very, very strong vote -- is that the 3 religions get together and decide that they will let God attack the atheists, and so they are going to leave us alone. Yes, yes -- God will do a MUCH better job! It will be horrible! I'm an atheist, and I'm going to just hate it, I assure you.
Please, just let God handle the whole thing -- all you have to do now is sit back and wait.
Posted by: Sastra | March 27, 2008 1:00 PM
Rock.
On.
Good show, sir.
Posted by: Little Bald Bastard | March 27, 2008 1:25 PM
He's been hanging with Mitt and George I, hasn't he?
I guess I'm just getting a little bit tired of all this rhetoric about anybody who's got religion is just fine, but not having any religion is the worst of the worst.
Guess they can't think of any other way to coerce regular people into toeing the line and being willing to die for their elite little asses than threatening them with an angry god.
Posted by: Elaine | March 27, 2008 1:53 PM
AFAIK, the Jews don't really care much if anyone else wants to be atheist. They don't much care if anyone else wants to be Jewish, either.
They won't discourage you converting, but they won't send slick postcards to your house about their awesome fellowship and inspiring religio-tainment services, either.
Posted by: twincats | March 27, 2008 2:00 PM
"You're gonna lecture me on ethics, you fascist asshole? Fuck you. And your little god too."
Brutal honesty, I love it. Great to live here and not there so we can express ourselves and not be tortured or beheaded. I do love it when facists use the name of God to be pricks. It really changes people's minds about religion and the family. You crack me up this is great.
I remember the day my brother told me that my figment of my imagination was an asshole. I laughed just as hard. Not mocking him just appreciating the brutal honesty.
Posted by: King of Ireland | March 27, 2008 2:01 PM
Taz-Couldn't agree more...that's what I do!
Posted by: Rev. AJB | March 27, 2008 2:24 PM
How many Christians are really interested in forming an alliance with Wahabbists, or Muslims of any persuasion for that matter, in an effort to combat atheism. I would guess very, very few, like almost zero. I would point to Dinesh D'Souza's recent book and the response that generated. Despite what people tell pollsters, which is that they trust atheists less than Muslims, I think that's certifiable bullshit. Christians I know are much more fearful of Muslims than atheists.
Posted by: soboco | March 27, 2008 3:18 PM
@Twincats,
Actually, Jewish tradition requires that the rabbis do discourage conversions. Orthodox rabbis will turn away potential converts at least three times, and then commonly impose some other requirements (learning, observing the sabbath and kashrut, etc.) before performing the conversion.
Posted by: gort | March 27, 2008 3:47 PM
You really have to lover religious people like this. They can all come together to hate. It's not important to deal with the BILLIONS who adhere to other religions...it is more important to deal with a few people who are gay or athiest. The courage of these folks...it just brings tears to your eyes, excuse me but I must go write poetry to celebrate the their heroic character. Perhaps my poems can be put to music....
Posted by: Timothy | March 27, 2008 4:22 PM
In other words, the gays and the godless are ruining our world. Same bullshit, different day, and it'll never change. But keep it up, hearing every day about how much people hate you keeps the blood pumping.
Posted by: paul | March 27, 2008 4:40 PM
What's up with this. Is this referring to PZ's post about liberals? Or was he just being a douchebag again?
Of course, it varies between demoninations, but yeah, Jews really aren't big on the advertising and conversions. It's a pain in the ass to get in, and once you do I don't think it's technically possible to leave. (not that they'll stalk you or anything)
Also, Jews in America tend to be, on the average, more tolerant of atheism and homosexuals and more supportive of evolution, than the total American population. But that has nothing to do with Judaism and more to do with Jews being bunched up in liberal states like New York, knowing very well what it's like to be an oppressed minority, and the statistical quirk that minority populations tend to be better educated. If you want to find fundie Jews, you have to go to Israel, and even then you have to look for them.
Posted by: Brandon | March 27, 2008 5:17 PM
James Dobson, Pat Robertson, Donald Wildmon and like thinkers can now brag to their congregants that they are allied with the Saudis.
Posted by: soboco | March 27, 2008 5:19 PM
Here, here! It is unsurprising that the absolutist monarch of a theocracy supports an truce between these often warring systems of belief in the name of destroying the free thinking that threatens his despotism. The evils befalling the Arab world have many roots, including despotism, fatalism, and ancient conflicts, but no root goes deeper or provides more nourishment to those problems than Wahabbi Islam, the ultimate expression of what is wrong with the Abrahamic traditions.
Posted by: Chuck | March 27, 2008 6:50 PM
Look out! The SB word-police might ask you to mind your manners...
My sentiments, exactly, BTW.
Posted by: Inoculated Mind | March 27, 2008 7:25 PM
The King of the country that has been exporting terrorism for a generation now is claiming that butt sex and not believing in leprechauns are destroying civilization.
Hypocrisy, thy name is King Abdullah.
When a tastefully decorated pink jumbo jet loaded with copies of The God Delusion crashes into a church or mosque, I'll start to worry about the gays and the atheists destroying civilization. But forgive me if, for now, I fear for the future of civilization whenever I ponder what religious extremists might be planning next.
Posted by: Wes | March 27, 2008 9:19 PM
Sounds to me like the Saudi king thinks that patriarchal fascism is being threatened. I hope he's right about that. That would have to be good news.
Posted by: Elizabeth | March 27, 2008 9:37 PM
From Wikipedia:
Yeah, whatever happened to traditional families like this?
Posted by: itchy | March 27, 2008 11:26 PM
Is King Abdullah on Rev. Moon's UPF band wagon?
Posted by: Melissa | March 28, 2008 12:13 AM
AFAIK, the Jews don't really care much if anyone else wants to be atheist. They don't much care if anyone else wants to be Jewish, either.
In my observation, they're also just fine with people being both Jewish and atheist.
Posted by: Eamon Knight | March 28, 2008 12:24 AM
Oooh! Here's the part I like!
"If God wills it, we will then meet with our brothers from other religions, including those of the Torah and the Gospel to come up with ways to safeguard humanity," he added. The king, who is the guardian of the holy sites of Mecca and Medina, said the major faiths shared a desire to combat "the disintegration of the family and the rise of atheism in the world"".
Here's the part that really provokes a reaction from me:
According to the official Saudi Press Agency King Abdullah said "I have noticed that the family system has weakened and that atheism has increased. That is an unacceptable behavior to all religions, to the Koran, the Torah and the Bible. We ask God to save humanity. There is a lack of ethics, loyalty and sincerity for our religions and humanity."
Picture if you will all of the religions breathlessly waiting to "know" if "God wills it, we will then meet with our brothers from other religions." If it happens there will be much glee that Dog is alive and controlling lives and nations. All smile. All live. But if the Grand Conference fails to happen each dogma will screech that they have been wronged; even worse, offended! by, guess who? The other guys. (Just a clue: to others you appear as other.)
"Ways to safeguard humanity." From? Last time I looked in the mirror or in a newspaper or in a hymnal I saw the enemy. Very familiar looking fellow. Them is us.
Now this: "There is a lack of ethics, loyalty and sincerity for our religions and humanity."
No shit, man. 'Cause your loyalty and sincerity are poorly invested. Your loyalty is not for your fellow man by virtue of your previous quote. Your sincerity is fueled only by your assumption of immortality. Schmuck. You make it obvious that such things as What It Is To Be Human are either forbidden for you or that you are very afraid of it.
The king, who is the guardian of the holy sites of Mecca and Medina, said "the major faiths shared a desire to combat the disintegration of the family and the rise of atheism in the world," lies by virtue of the simple fact that there are no consistent definitions to be gleaned from the plethora of dogmas. Some kind of conflict will always develop if one person restricts the right of another to something less or more than the first enjoys. Any surprises here?
The best course is to remember that these knuckleheads said this shit and to prepare for nothing to come of it. Except the urge to reply. And to ensure that will require constant vigilence, a good command of the language and a good referenc library. I mourn the loss of mine. Ramen.
I'd go on but it's late. I worked hard today. It's a good tired.
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | March 28, 2008 12:53 AM
Wes said:
But, Wes, you forget - a large number of putatively "moderate" Muslims feel that while the terrorists/extremists/Jihadists go too far in their violence, the outrage that fuels that violence is understandable, given the extreme insults we of other (or no) religion keep providing.I can actually see some good from such a meeting, though. It is certainly possible that the influence of Christian fundies could help discourage actual violence against gays/atheists/women who dress provocatively/etc. On the other hand, I suppose it is possible that the Christians would pick up rioting and bomb-building skills instead...
Posted by: BobApril | March 28, 2008 2:35 AM
So let me get this straight, This king wants to encourage religious cooperation for the purpose of oppressing the unbelievers. To form an axis, if you will, to do what most reasonable people would consider evil.
I think the irony center of my brain just overloaded.
Posted by: James K | March 28, 2008 3:11 AM
"When a tastefully decorated pink jumbo jet loaded with copies of The God Delusion crashes into a church or mosque, I'll start to worry about the gays and the atheists destroying civilization."
Wow, Wes. Awesome bon mot.
I'll be shamelessly stealing that one!
Posted by: Leigh | March 28, 2008 4:02 AM
Hmmm - as the late John W. Campbell, Jr might have said: the buggy-whip makers are getting concerned about the sucess of the motor-car industry.
Posted by: paulh | March 28, 2008 6:12 AM
"How many Christians are really interested in forming an alliance with Wahabbists, or Muslims of any persuasion for that matter, in an effort to combat atheism. I would guess very, very few, like almost zero." - Soboco
Maybe so in the US, not in the UK, perhaps because Christianity is a lot weaker here. When Salman Rushdie (then living in the UK) published "Satanic Verses" and got a death fatwa from Iranian theologians, prominent Christians were falling over each other to say how much they sympathised with Muslim "offence", and criticising Rushdie. Some did say the fatwa was a bit naughty, but I don't recall any coming out in defence of his right to free speech. Conversely, a lot of non-Christian religious leaders support the continued constitutional role of the Church of England, and whenever issues such as right-to-die or embryonic stem cells arise, you can count on a sky-fairy alliance to put the case for maximising human suffering. (In fairness, the prominent human fertility expert and orthodox Jew, Robert Winston, has criticised RC cardinals for opposing stem cell research.)
Posted by: Nick Gotts | March 28, 2008 7:54 AM
"But, Wes, you forget - a large number of putatively "moderate" Muslims feel that while the terrorists/extremists/Jihadists go too far in their violence, the outrage that fuels that violence is understandable, given the extreme insults we of other (or no) religion keep providing."
No actually they object to your government backing shit-sacks like Abdullah, arming his troops and training his torturers.
But admitting that might get in the way of funny little recreational exercises like the one currently going on in Iraq.
Posted by: Ian Gould | March 28, 2008 8:37 AM
COMING TOGETHER?
Is there a confluence of Reverend Moon, the king of Saudi Arabia, and Bush? Just being paranoid.
Posted by: Rod | March 28, 2008 9:29 AM
Of COURSE Rev. Moon would be part of this alliance. He'd probably figure out a way to work it into his "Tear Down the Cross" campaign. Oh, and he took a trip to the Otherworld and says Ibn Saud agrees that Moon is "King of America" and everyone should unite behind him to gang up on the atheists.
Posted by: Raging Bee | March 28, 2008 2:28 PM
"You're gonna lecture me on ethics, you fascist asshole?"
The technical term is "faschole".
Posted by: Skwee | March 28, 2008 11:07 PM
it's ok everyone GOD IS GOING TO SAVE HUMANITY because he did such a good job last time saving humanity from it's own evils.
Now excuse me I need to go get some wood for my ark.
Posted by: Richard Eis | March 29, 2008 6:04 PM
Apparently Abdullah's motives for this statement were two-fold (per the BBC):
1. A viable excuse for opening a dialog with Israel via Israeli religious figures;
2. Covering his arse with the ultra-radicals inside Saudi Arabia over his recent decision to allow several churches to be built there.
Posted by: Ian Gould | March 31, 2008 7:40 AM
I gotta agree. If we get to blame Muslim extremism on all of Muslim society, it's only fair that all Americans are implicated for the Iraq War, right? I love how some people think that screaming, "Islam is the religion of violence!" will actually contribute to anything.
Posted by: Brandon | March 31, 2008 8:53 AM
Christian religious extremism isn't already adequately funded?
Posted by: A.Lizard | April 1, 2008 5:50 AM