Ed Brayton is a freelance writer and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of Michigan Citizens for Science and co-founder of The Panda's Thumb. He has written for such publications as The Bard, Skeptic and Reports of the National Center for Science Education, spoken in front of many organizations and conferences, and appeared on nationally syndicated radio shows and on C-SPAN. Ed is also a Fellow with the Center for Independent Media.(static)
Ed Brayton also blogs at Positive Liberty and The Panda's Thumb
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Posted on: March 10, 2008 9:23 AM, by Ed Brayton
You have to hear this anti-gay rant by an Oklahoma legislator, Sally Kern, when she didn't think anyone was listening but her supporters. I especially like this claim:
Studies show, no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted for more than, you know, a few decades.
Really? I don't suppose you could actually cite those "studies", could you? I didn't think so. Welcome to the world of virulent ignorance. Youtube video below the fold.
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Comments
This reminds me of the Texas Governor that said that homosexuals are all about sex because the term implies it!!!
This is really sad for America -and consequently for the whole world...
Posted by: stavros | March 10, 2008 2:02 PM
Do these people in the video actually think she cares one bit what they think? I'm guessing the vast majority of them aren't in her district. So the guy with the Golden Gate Bridge in the background doesn't mean a thing to her, any more than one of her hayseed constituents criticising Nancy Pelosi is going to cause Pelosi to lose one second of sleep. That said, is anyone surprised that a rural southern representative is saying this stuff? Anyone? I'm certainly not. By the way, the Onion warned about this very thing 10 years ago.
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28970
Posted by: soboco | March 10, 2008 2:08 PM
By the way, I looked her up on the state website, and her husband is a Baptist preacher. So, again, big surprise.
Posted by: soboco | March 10, 2008 2:16 PM
Ha! I wondered how long it would be before you picked this up. If it is any consolation, in 2006 we booted an equally virulent, though less cartoonish and more influential social conservative, out of the State House. Thad Balkman, representing the mostly rural east Norman, was considered to be a rising star in Oklahoma Republican circles, until he was defeated by Wallace Collins. "Family values" was a cornerstone of Balkman's campaign.
As a unrelated, but interesting side note, country singer Toby Keith, against the fervor by which conservatives seek to embrace him, was quite visible in his support for Collin's candidacy.
Posted by: carlsonjok | March 10, 2008 2:28 PM
I sometimes daydream that youth culture will start using the phrase "family values" as slang for anal sex. I'm picturing some very confused looks as from fundies and politicians at rallies, with half their audience snickering every time they say it. I see couple collage girls giggling and poking each other in the arm and some frat boy jumping up in the middle of a speech yelling, "Yea, family values! Woohoo!!"
*sigh* I can dream, can't I?
Posted by: Abby Normal | March 10, 2008 2:50 PM
Wow. Who knew that Denyse O'Leary was writing material for politicians in Oklahoma?
Posted by: Mister DNA | March 10, 2008 3:12 PM
"The ballad of Sally Kern"
http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com/2008/03/ballad-of-sally-kern.html
Posted by: Cuttlefish | March 10, 2008 3:15 PM
Re stavros
You mean closet gay Rick Henry?
Posted by: SLC | March 10, 2008 3:25 PM
@soboco
Just so you know, that "guy" with the Golden Gate in the background sure looks an awful lot like a girl to me. (btw, I look just like her and I too am a girl the last time I checked).
Posted by: J | March 10, 2008 3:34 PM
Soboco: I agree Kern probably could care less what anyone in San Francisco or anywhere else thinks about her. I was hoping at least one person in the video would "self-identify" as an Okie, but you can't have everything. But if the purpose of the video was to draw attention to her bigotry, it sure seems to be working. Now we can just hope there's a local reaction as well.
To give (minimal) credit where credit is due, at least she's not trying to deny she said that or claim she was edited out of context or the usual waffling.
Posted by: WScott | March 10, 2008 3:47 PM
I never cease to be absolutely amazed and flabbergasted, by the depthless ignorance people like Sally Kern continue to show. Not just about gays and lesbians, but about almost everything!
Anne G
Posted by: Anne Gilbert | March 10, 2008 4:10 PM
Studies show, no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted for more than, you know, a few decades.
Oh, c'mon, Ed -- they don't need any studies to show this. She's talking about societies that TOTALLY embraced homosexuality. That would mean any society where ONLY homosexuals could have sexual relationships. No heterosexual couplings allowed.
A couple decades of that and there's nobody under the age of 20. A few more decades -- nobody under 40. Add in a couple more, and you know what we're talking.
Armageddon. Cultural annihilation. It would be like Sodom. Or Branson, Missouri.
Posted by: Sastra | March 10, 2008 4:13 PM
I can only daydream that every day more people find that recording as ridiculous as I do.
What people do in their bedroom, on their time (and who they do it with) is their business. It simply does not affect anyone else and it's stupid to think that it does!
I look a lot like her, too, just with really long grey hair!
Posted by: twincats | March 10, 2008 4:17 PM
I seem to remember the Greeks, and then the Romans, lasting a bit longer than a few decades...(and they are kind of important to our culture, just as much as the Bible).
Posted by: Jim | March 10, 2008 4:26 PM
The funniest (and most revolting) thing about Kern's comments is that she is claiming her statements were taken out of context.
Funny because that is ridiculous, and revolting because Kern lacks the spine to even be a consistent bigot.
Posted by: CHV | March 10, 2008 5:18 PM
Just so you know, that "guy" with the Golden Gate in the background sure looks an awful lot like a girl to me. (btw, I look just like her and I too am a girl the last time I checked).
That just shows you how close I was looking. But, you get the point, this representative is going to pander to her constituents. I should also add that after looking her up, I was wrong about her being in rural Oklahoma. She's in suburban OKC.
Posted by: soboco | March 10, 2008 5:36 PM
>>>>I seem to remember the Greeks, and then the Romans, lasting a bit longer than a few decades...(and they are kind of important to our culture, just as much as the Bible).
I don't think I like your pinko commie tone, mister!
To paraphrase and/or quote Stephen Colbert: facts have a well-known liberal agenda.
Posted by: CHV | March 10, 2008 5:57 PM
"Studies show" is one of those phrases that is universally followed by a falsehood. Just like "scientists now believe" and "statistics show."
Posted by: BaldApe | March 10, 2008 6:22 PM
Ms. Kern needs to do some research and reading. No culture that has embraced homosexuality has lasted for more than a few decades? She desperately requires a refresher course in ancient cultures. Obviously she has taken a page from the WBC handbook. This woman is an idiot and it reflects badly on Oklahomans, that she is a representative in their state, they elected her.
Ms. Kern also stated homosexuality was a bigger threat than terrorism or Islam. I know for a fact I have not read of a gay terrorist attack, has anyone else? No. Terrorism in this country comes from Michael Chertoff and his 'gut feelings'. Followed closely by lunatics, both home grown and foreign that want to kill Americans.
Ms. Kern, with her hate monger rhetoric, needs to sit down and shut up.
Posted by: Vulture | March 10, 2008 6:23 PM
What is Branson, Missouri?
Posted by: David Marjanović | March 10, 2008 7:11 PM
David, Branson is an American hell.
Posted by: Janine | March 10, 2008 7:30 PM
Terrorists Travel in Twos, and gays(*Twinx* are Teabaggers...duh?? get it? Its "the Teeeeee word," man...
Posted by: Cherie Picker, Ob. Gyn. | March 10, 2008 7:44 PM
CHV, I think it's a "liberal bias" that the facts have.
Also, I believe Branson is not just "an" American Hell, but *a* circle of Hell. I'm pretty sure Satan lives there a good part of the year, having frequent "family values" with his minion Joe Diffie (scroll all the way down Janine's link and look on the left side, if you dare.)
Posted by: Leni | March 10, 2008 7:50 PM
everyone who cares should send her an email (from her website): sallykern@okhouse.gov
Posted by: Chas | March 10, 2008 8:06 PM
Chas - I emailed her this morning while this site was down. Although I would have loved to absolutely trash this lunatic, I thought that I would take the "Christian" route in hopes that I could lure her in and then smack her down with her own rhetoric so she could not merely brush me off as an evil liberal lacking "family values". I'm sure it won't work and that she is too far off in Fundalusia but if it makes her think, even for a moment, it will be progress. Here is what I sent:
Dear Representative Kern,
I am a married, Christian mother of three, and I am trying to raise my children to be moral, kind and accepting individuals. I heard what you said regarding homosexuals and wholeheartedly disagree. Why does it strike you as wrong that there are homosexuals on city councils? They were chosen for those positions by the people, just as people in your district chose you. How can you equate voting, tax paying, law abiding, and in some cases Christian individuals with terrorists? Gays are foremost humans and sin just like you and me. As a public official you have the responsibililty to represent all of your
constituents without prejudice. It is your job. As a Christian, you should hold yourself to an even higher standard. If you are unable to do this, than you are in the wrong profession. Maybe it is time for you to review Matthew 7 and remind yourself that it is not your duty to judge and define the sins of others. You too have sinned, and will be judged for that equally. You owe your constituents an apology for your behavior.
Posted by: JoH | March 10, 2008 9:12 PM
"Studies show, no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted for more than, you know, a few decades."
Yeah, pull the other one mate, its got bells on. This doesn't even sound like the findings of any study by any kind of social scientist. Social science is inherently stochastic, it relies on probabilities and correlations. If she had said "studies show that social acceptance is associated with higher crime / social disfuntion / bad thing of your choice" I could at least see a valid hypothesis, though one that is unlikely to have merit.
But her assertion doesn't even sound like the subject of a study. But then I suppose fundies and proper research methodology are not firm friends.
Posted by: James K | March 11, 2008 12:09 AM
As to whether she cares about the person in San Fran, let me just remind you of the quote from "Charlie Wilson's War": "How many Jews are in your district Charlie?" "Seven." Point being, it doesn't matter if someone's in your district or not. It only matters if their money can support you in your district (or your opponent). After hearing this woman's hate speech, I promptly donated money to victoryfund.org/listening. I encourage all of you in San Fran, Minnesota, or Nevada (or Oklahoma) to do the same.
Posted by: lauram | March 11, 2008 1:01 AM
Not just ancient cultures, Vulture. Court records regarding prostitution clearly show that, as early as the 1600's, many of the major cities of Europe had their fair share of openly male, and female-identifying male, prostitutes. Considering that the assiduous maintenance of court records only really came into its own during the renaissance period, which was also about the time when prostitution began to be outlawed widely, it is highly likely that those professional communities, and the clintele they served, were there long before that time. And not only did homosexual sex occur in these societies; in the case, at least, of England, I know that for a long time a male who dressed and lived as a woman, when it came to prostitution cases, was treated as a woman before the court, and that says something about how much those societies accepted homsexuality.
Then there's the fact that some of the earliest Christian monastic communities were openly dedicated to homosexuality, working from the belief that, given the approaching apocalypse, it'd be cruel to bring new life into the world.
I even seem to remember there being some indications of homosexuality in the pre-revolutionary colonies of America, though I can't be very specific as I've never really studied that matter.
The truth is that homosexuality has always been with us and that, though it is true that every society has had its own ways at different times of dealing with it, the rampant persecution of homosexuals is really a very new development.
Posted by: Julian | March 11, 2008 9:30 AM
Julian - Your point and my point are the same. What I meant by ancient cultures was Greeks, Romans, etc. These cultures embraced homosexuality and definitely lasted more than a few decades. As opposed to what Ms. Kern stated about those who embrace homosexuality.
Homosexuals have been around since the beginning of time and it is time we stop demonizing these people. I am sick of high and mighty bible thumpers making their case out of book that was written by man and re-written several times. It has grown tiresome and redundant.
Court records are an interesting documentation of the treatment of homosexuals throughout the ages. I did not think of that angle but I like the way of thinking.
Posted by: Vulture | March 11, 2008 1:35 PM
I am positive I saw Ms. Kern burning a flag at a soldier's funeral and screeching about gays. Ms. Kern is a perfect example of what is wrong with our country today - archaic thinking. No, no , wait a minute, that's right she does not think. She waves her beloved book (a book written by men) and says baaaaaaa. And to all of those who approve of Ms. Kern and her rant be careful not to follow the herd off the cliff.
I see Ms. Kern cuts her hair, she is a sinner. I suppose if I go through her closet I will find mixed thread clothing, also a sin according to Levictus. Do you eat shellfish Ms. Kern? Yet another sin by the way.
I can sell my daughter and own a slave. Hmmmm h-e-l-l of a world we live in if thems the rules we must follow.
I just found the letter below, thought I would not stop laughing. Just thought I'd share - enjoy.
An Open Letter to All Supporters of Rep. Kern:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.
a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?
i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them?(Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws?(Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Posted by: SM | March 11, 2008 2:37 PM
"Studies show" is one of those phrases that is universally followed by a falsehood. Just like "scientists now believe" and "statistics show."
You forgot "Some say" as well. It's a staple of FOX News.
Posted by: Bouj | March 11, 2008 2:45 PM
Check out the latest YouTube on the story... this is inspirational stuff!
http://podblack.wordpress.com/2008/03/12/the-ballad-of-sally-kern/
Posted by: Podblack | March 11, 2008 5:54 PM
JoH wrote:
Ha! That's great.
I think I had a layover on the bus there once. Couldn't buy any beer or cigarettes, either.
Oh, wait, that was Salt Lake City.
Posted by: James Hanley | March 11, 2008 5:55 PM
Sorry if it sounded like I was trying to correct you Vulture, that wasn't what I was going for; I was aiming for bolstering your point with more evidence, but I guess I kinda fall into lecture mode.
Posted by: Julian | March 12, 2008 1:02 AM
Julian - no worries, I did not take it that you were correcting me. If I needed to be corrected though I would hope it would be by someone with a brain, like you lol. Besides I'm not that thin skinned. I enjoy a good commentary or debate without sinking into the usual quagmire these forums tend to spiral into. I liked your angle about the courts it was interesting and something I did not think of. So much of recorded history has been altered by revisionist historians but certain documents such as old court documents and transcripts are still intact. I appreciated your point and support. Take care.
Posted by: Vulture | March 12, 2008 1:37 AM
Julian - Out of curiosity I read my prior post and it does sound like I thought you were correcting me - but that is not the way I meant it. It is difficult to type and keep my daughter from helping me so sometimes my post are a little abrupt and quick. She is eighteen months and too fast for me - guess I am just getting old! LMAO.
Posted by: Vulture | March 12, 2008 1:48 AM
On the subject of history I heard a fascinating discussion on the radio a few months ago. Apparently in mediaeval france there was a form of contract called afrerement where two men could be treated as a single household for property taxes and inheritance. It was even suggested that such arrangements typically started with a church blessing. Does anyone have more info on this? it sounds very close to same sex marriage to me but I may be misinterpreting.
Posted by: matt | March 12, 2008 6:08 AM
Matt, it sounds like you may be refering to Adelphopoiesis. It was performed by the Chatholic and Eastern Orthodox churches from about 500 to 1500 AD. While it joined two men in a life long union there is debate amoung historians as to the nature of that relationship. Some point to it as analogous to civil unions, others claim it was more like a blood brother accord. Check out the book "Same-Sex Unions in Premodern Europe" for more information.
Posted by: Abby Normal | March 12, 2008 11:47 AM
Matt, I think this may shed a bit of light. In short: An agreement to share economy, no firm knowledge on what it may have meant otherwise. (« afrèrement » sounds like foster-brotherhood to me.)
Posted by: kai | March 12, 2008 11:51 AM
Considering the source, make of this what you will:
Sally Kern has a gay son.
Posted by: carlsonjok | March 12, 2008 7:44 PM
If you need a little help writing Oklahoma Gov. Brad Henry, Rep. Chris Benge, Sen. Mike Morgan about this outrage, CC'ed to Rep. Kern herself, the Human Rights Campaign will be delighted to facilitate your action. http://www.hrcactioncenter.org/campaign/ok_rep_sally_kern_cen
Posted by: 011101 | March 13, 2008 3:32 AM