Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
From the Department of Ridiculously Hyperbolic Rhetoric: the terminally absurd Janet Folger says gay marriage portends the end of the world!
How same-sex marriage points to end of the world
Need I mention that this is another Worldnutdaily "exclusive," which as always means something so mind-numbingly idiotic that no other news outlet would even consider publishing it? But wait till you hear her "reasoning":
As I wrote about in my book, "The Criminalization of Christianity," Jeffrey Satinover, who holds an M.D. from Princeton and doctorates from Yale, MIT and Harvard, was on my radio program one day and I asked him about where we are in history. He explained that according to the "Babylonian Talmud" - the book of rabbis' interpretation of the scriptures 1,000 years before Christ, there was only one time in history that reflects where we are right now. There was only one time in history, according to these writings, where men were given in marriage to men, and women given in marriage to women.Want to venture a guess as to when? No, it wasn't in Sodom and Gomorrah, although that was my guess. Homosexuality was rampant there, of course, but according to the Talmud, not homosexual "marriage." What about ancient Greece? Rome? No. Babylon? No again. The one time in history when homosexual "marriage" was practiced was ... during the days of Noah. And according to Satinover, that's what the "Babylonian Talmud" attributes as the final straw that led to the Flood.
On my Faith2Action radio program on Thursday, Rabbi Aryeh Spero verified this to be true.
Rabbi Spero spoke of God's compassion before the Flood, in hopes people would repent and turn back to His ways. He showed patience for hundreds of years.
But, he said, the Talmud's writings reveal that "before the Flood people started to write marriage contracts between men, in other words, homosexual 'marriage,' which is more than homosexual activity - it's giving an official state stamp of approval, a sanctification ... of homosexual partnership."
In fact, he said, "the writings indicated that it wasn't even so much the 'straw that broke the camel's back,' but that the sin in and of itself is so contrary to why God created the world, so contrary to the order of God's nature, that God said then and there 'I have to start all over ... to annihilate the world and start from the beginning. ...'"
Rabbi Spero went on to say, "Even in ancient Greece they did not write marriage contracts between men. There was homosexuality, and it was wrong, but there was not an official 'blessed' policy. ... Marriage is 'sanctification' (not simply a partnership)." He said to confer the title of sanctification and holiness upon this behavior is "probably one of the greatest sins of all that one does against God's plan for this world."
The one time it happened was: "During the days of Noah." When I first heard this, my mind immediately went to a verse I've heard many times but never with such relevance. The verse is found in Matthew 24:37. It reads:
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. - Mathew 24:37 (NIV)
I used to read this verse and think: It was bad at lots of points in history; it doesn't necessarily mean now, but if these Jewish writings are true, we are uniquely like the "days of Noah" right now - and only right now.
I presume she wrote that with a straight face. Her evidence for this is that gay marriage allegedly led to the global flood of Noah. Except, of course, that this flood never happened. Life on earth was not "annihilated" by God or by anything else. There really is no end to just how utterly idiotic these people can be.
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Well, let's see....same-sex marriage was first legalized in Denmark in 1989. It's now 2008, and I don't believe the country has seen a single flood, let alone one which wiped out the entire country, let alone one which wiped out the entire planet. Does Ms. Folger's little "theory" perhaps have a deadline? Oh, of course not....that would require her to admit she's wrong.
Posted by: Gretchen | May 23, 2008 9:34 AM
Now that Massachusetts has allowed gay marriages (4 years ago!) does that mean it will be completely flooded? Up to the highest point (over 1Km)? And what, does this 1Km high wall of water just kinda hang there at the border of the state? Will this 1Km high block of water extend out to International waters? How will this actually work? Care to enlighten us, Janet?
I just wish they would just come out of the closet already and stop flapping thier gums to no effect -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | May 23, 2008 9:43 AM
As one theory of misreading has it, God's warning to Noah came 100 years before the Flood. So perhaps we have 81 to go. Let's party like it's 2088!
Posted by: kehrsam | May 23, 2008 9:46 AM
Same sex marriage became legal in Canada in 2005. Six months later, a pipe in my kitchen broke and flooded my place. I had to replace my kitchen floor.
Coincidence? I think not!
Posted by: T. Bruce McNeely | May 23, 2008 9:48 AM
Dingo, obviously the Connecticut River will rise and spread out from the middle of the state, consuming all of those evil gays.
Posted by: Josh | May 23, 2008 9:50 AM
How convient they all live on the Connecticut River. What 'bout those who don't? Back to square one -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | May 23, 2008 9:53 AM
Except, of course, that this flood never happened. Life on earth was not "annihilated" by God or by anything else.
You know, Ed, we cannot actually disprove the notion that their God did cause a massive worldwide flood through a supernatural miracle and then used additional miracles to not only erase all evidence of said flood, but create a geologic record that indicates that something else entirely (or more accurately, a long series of other somethings) happened. Curiously, by far most of the folks out there who adhere to the idea of a Noachian Flud do not appear to be pushing that position--the only one they have that holds any water *cough*.
Posted by: Josh | May 23, 2008 9:54 AM
'... there was not an official 'blessed' policy. ... Marriage is 'sanctification' (not simply a partnership)." He said to confer the title of sanctification and holiness upon this behavior is "probably one of the greatest sins of all that one does against God's plan for this world." '
Someone Folger does not get the civil marriage/ Holy Matrimony distinction here. Perhaps she's more worried about the church blessing/ consecration of gay marriage, which no one is discussing, and is not about to be enforced at all.
Still, there have been priests who did religious blessings for gay couples from way before they could legally be married, and the world has not drowned as a result, so she's still talking out of her arse.
Posted by: FireWalk | May 23, 2008 9:56 AM
M.D. from Princeton and doctorates from Yale, MIT and Harvard
Three doctorates, and feels the need to wave them around? Sure sign of crankery.
the Talmud's writings reveal that "before the Flood people started to write marriage contracts between men..."
And the reason the Talmud authors (writing thousands of years after the "flood") know this is...?
Posted by: Bartholomew | May 23, 2008 9:57 AM
Bartholomew - O that's an easy one: "godtoldthem". Because god's never been know to lie to people before, oh no never. /sarcasm -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | May 23, 2008 10:01 AM
Oh no! THE RIVER will RISE...it will RISE and spring forth with its divine retribution against all of those who dare to try and be happy. It will rise above its banks and cover the evil floodplains upon which Amherst and Northampton are set, purifying those evil dens of free speech through righteous SILT. It will rise to consume the evil of Pelham and spring forth BEYOND the valley which bears its name, taking strength from the Quabbin as it does so, covering the eastern part of the state in a purifying wash of divine wrath. The Berkshires...well, uh, the Berkshires will be deluged by a giant WAVE! Yes, a wave that comes from the river bed after the initial deluge covers the east. And the WAVE will move west all the way to the Hudson River, making everything it touches clean with the HOLY SILT.
Posted by: Josh | May 23, 2008 10:03 AM
BTW, Princeton doesn't have a medical school.
Posted by: Hanspeter | May 23, 2008 10:06 AM
What Folger's missing is that the Israelites were God's chosen people, so of course he was pissed off and drowned everyone, non-Israelites included.
Fortunately, Danes, Canadians, and Americans aren't God's chosen people, so he doesn't really give a shit what we do. Now if Israel starts allowing gay marriage, run for the hills!
Posted by: James Hanley | May 23, 2008 10:07 AM
Harrispeter - Hmm thought I smelt bullshit degrees. -DJ PhD LLD MD BBS HBE WTF &etc.
Posted by: DingoJack | May 23, 2008 10:09 AM
How can government sanctify something and make it holy? The only way is if God is subject to government. What kind of Christian thinks holiness or sanctification is bestowed by government decree?
Posted by: James Hanley | May 23, 2008 10:15 AM
I wonder if we should point Janet Folger to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions
There must have been many global floods throughout history.
Posted by: llDayo | May 23, 2008 10:15 AM
James - Nah don't panic. This "great flood" was not observed by Amerindians, Celts, Indians, Xosians, Chinese, Austonesians or Aboriginals. Clearly it was a world-wide flood that only hit a tiny area of world, Judea. So be as naughty as you like, it's the Israelis who'll get flooded. -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | May 23, 2008 10:15 AM
Wasn't this the fruitcake that penned an imaginary letter from her prison cell in the Hillary gulag?
Posted by: Bad | May 23, 2008 10:17 AM
"God said then and there 'I have to start all over ... to annihilate the world and start from the beginning'"
Well, I'm glad he did, and because he did there was never any more sin, or killing, or, wait a second, why did he have a flood again? Was it a half-assed job?
Dear Janet, I spoke with God last night, and he said that the homosexuals have his blessings. He is also wondering why you have not sold all of your things and given the money to the the poor, and why you have not drunk deadly poison to prove your faith. Oh, and he saw you eat at Red Lobster last month. For shame!
Posted by: Jason Failes | May 23, 2008 10:18 AM
So, gay marriage causes global warming? Got it.
Posted by: Adam | May 23, 2008 10:19 AM
Jason - They have a Red Lobster at the Hillary Gulag? Oh the inhumanity -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | May 23, 2008 10:21 AM
This god person is totally inept. Why are so many people worshiping him?
I say this because he obviously can not learn from his mistakes. He sets up a system that results in same sex marriage, which is contrary to his plan. This angers him, so he destroys the world and starts again. But rather than learning from the mistakes, and making improvements he sets up the same system that results in the same outcome.
I mean really. When you reach out and touch the scalding hot stove the first time it is excusable. It is the second time that I begin to question your intelligence. Com on god, show some effort and stop mailing it in.
/sarcasm off
Posted by: mess | May 23, 2008 10:21 AM
Hanspeter,
Princeton so DOES have a medical school. Dr. House works there ;)
Posted by: blue | May 23, 2008 10:23 AM
"Everyone lies". -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | May 23, 2008 10:24 AM
Right wing Christians benefit enormously by blurring the distinction between divine and temporal power. The whole point of the movement is to control people's thoughts, beliefs and private behavior, so the more they can confound "God says" with "We say", the more they can get people to obey them.
Posted by: Wes | May 23, 2008 10:40 AM
Perhaps a minor point, all things considered, but the Babylonian Talmud was assembled in the first few centuries CE. It is true that material in it dates back quite a ways, but the document itself was not finished until, IIRC, the fourth century CE.
And let's ignore the theological issues brought in by arguing for a Christian apocalypse from religious writings that deny the validity of Christianity. I'm staying far away from that one.
Posted by: Michael | May 23, 2008 10:42 AM
This is, unsurprisingly, nonsense. The Babylonian Talmud was composed in the 5th Century AD. Yes, "AD" as in "Anno Domini". One can argue about how far back the underpinning oral tradition of the Talmud goes, but most scholars would certainly not extend it back to 1000 BC (some would not even extend it past the time of Jesus of Nazareth).
Also, if I recall correctly, there is nothing in the Talmud about same-sex marriage being the catalyst for the "Great Deluge". Notice how they do not provide a citation for this claim. Janet Folger once again proves she lacks critical thinking skills.
Posted by: BCtheEra | May 23, 2008 10:42 AM
See my last comment -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | May 23, 2008 10:42 AM
And I feel fine.
Posted by: Abby Normal | May 23, 2008 10:45 AM
Abby - Ok we're agreed this time I'll bring the beer, You bring the pretzels. -DJ
PS you reading my mind or somthing?
Posted by: DingoJack | May 23, 2008 10:48 AM
BCtheEra:
There is some archaeological evidence for dating Talmudic strictures at least to the time of Jesus (the dimensions of the ritual baths in Jerusalem, e.g., follow Talmudic rules).
Also, it's shockingly hard to cite things in the Talmud. One must do it by masechta ("volume/subject" roughly speaking) then by folio and page. The first page of the Talmud is Berachot 2a, and even then there's a mess of text on it- the Hebrew Mishnah, the Aramaic Gemorrah, and nine (!) commentators. Furthermore, a complete translation of the entire Babylonian Talmud has only just recently been completed and even that requires some expertise to navigate.
Posted by: Michael | May 23, 2008 10:50 AM
According to the official record:
Nothing about same-sex marriages in there (even in the ellipses) - silly rabbis! (Tangentially: this repenting by the "LORD" would seem to pose a difficulty for claims of an error-free divinity, no?)
The problem which the Flood "solved" was one of heterosexual marriage, initiated by the older half-brothers of Jesus.
Posted by: Pierce R. Butler | May 23, 2008 10:53 AM
Satinover is definitely a crank. He cites Paul Cameron's bizarre statistics about gay lifespans and advocates ex-gay therapy. He also has written about the Bible code and the quantum brain. Quite a wide variety of nuttiness with this one.
Posted by: jmc | May 23, 2008 11:04 AM
The true prophesy:
There shall, in that time, be rumours of things going astray, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock.
Posted by: tony | May 23, 2008 11:04 AM
Not directly. I just tapped into the CIA feed. BTW:
Sure
No
Yes
Yes
About two years
I think so, but how are you going to get rubber pants onto a chimp?
Posted by: Abby Normal | May 23, 2008 11:13 AM
You mean same-sex marriage could cause the best bang since the Big One? I guess that's why John McCain doesn't want to walk Ellen down the aisle -- he wants to be out of the blast radius when things really get hot.
Posted by: Raging Bee | May 23, 2008 11:16 AM
I don't get it: if Folger truly thinks gay marriage is going to bring about Armageddon, shouldn't she and the rest of the Fundies be pushing for it? Isn't that the reason behind so much Fundie support of Israel?
Posted by: WScott | May 23, 2008 11:17 AM
Wes:
Exactly, and that's what pisses me off. They should all read Jacques Ellul's Anarchy and Christianity.Mess:
Game theorist Steven Brams has a chapter in his book Biblical Games that is a game theoretic analysis of why an omnipotent God would grant free will. In a nutshell, God's preference order is:-I give them free will, they respond by obeying.
-I give them free will, they don't obey.
-I don't give them free will, they obey.
-I don't give them free will, they don't obey.
If there is a God, and that is an accurate statement of God's preference order, allowing people free will would be rational, even if they screw things up.
I'm not preaching! Just presenting an alternative theory because I think game theory is fun.
Posted by: James Hanley | May 23, 2008 11:17 AM
Same-sex marriage causes global flooding? That sounds like a really great plot for a really bizarre porn movie...
Posted by: Raging Bee | May 23, 2008 11:19 AM
Bee - And the title of this opus would be...? ;) DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | May 23, 2008 11:26 AM
It's almost useless to point out how well places that have legalized gay marriage are doing, years after the fact. I know, I've tried.
The response is always that there hasn't been time for the great unraveling of society that the wingnuts are convinced will take place -- despite it all starting 20 years ago now.
Plus, people like Rick Santorum will just flat out lie about the statistics anyway, thus ignoring the inconvenient truth:
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/22/santorum-gay/
(gotta love the subtle choice of URL for that story!)
So I would bet that if the California ruling holds up in November, opponents will still be forecasting doom and devastation for America twenty years from now, just because of that one ruling.
Posted by: tacitus | May 23, 2008 11:38 AM
Tacitus - not blow my own trumpet (so to speak :) I did a statisitcal analysis of marriage and divorce rates in Massachusetts 2001-2006 that came to exactly the same conclusion.
Marriage rates went up and divorces rates went down SIGNIFICANTLY* after 2004. Seems gay marriages not only benfit the economy but also strengthen marriages generally.
Go figure Janet -DJ
*Change upward or downward >> 3.5 Standard Errors of Estimate. Chance of this occuring randomly well below 0.1%
Posted by: DingoJack | May 23, 2008 11:52 AM
LJeffrey Satinover, who holds an M.D. from Princeton and doctorates from Yale, MIT and Harvard, was on my radio program one day and I asked him about where we are in history
Anyone else thinks this smells a little fishy? Wikipedia lists a bachelor's degree from MIT, a Masters in Education from Harvard and an MD from University of Texas. Later he got an MS in physics at Yale and he's a candidate at University of Nice for his first PhD, not his fourth, for crying out loud. An MD (Texas not Princeton) working on a second doctorate -- not all that unusual. There are quite a few MD/PhDs. MD with three doctrorates in addition to an MD -- that would be something.
Posted by: Dr X | May 23, 2008 11:55 AM
How is that last one even possible? Did God miss a semicolon somewhere?
Posted by: Brandon | May 23, 2008 12:00 PM
Don't worry, Dingo, just you wait until the kids of all those gay couples grow up to be evil sodomites. Then you will see the wrath that the saintly Janet talks about being unleashed upon our reprobate nation....
... or not.
But, hell, the fear and dread she's spreading will help sell her a few more books in the meantime.
Posted by: tacitus | May 23, 2008 12:05 PM
Brandon - To answer your question.
If god gave free will then humans could obey, or not as they choose. If god did'nt give humans free will then humans must obey by necessity. The last condition is an empty set, since it is not possible to fill. It is simply there to round out all possibilities.
- Hope that halps DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | May 23, 2008 12:08 PM
The problem is that if God is as omniscient and omnipotent as Christians claim, then from the very beginning he knew exactly what was going to happen when he created human beings. So why he was "sad" when Adam disobeyed him beats me, and what's the deal with condemning the rest of humanity for the sins of one man? God chose to let it happen that way, Adam had no choice in the matter.
Posted by: tacitus | May 23, 2008 12:18 PM
Well clearly god KNEW it was going to happen - he knows everything.
Therefore he is a) a sadist, b) a psycopath, c) has multiple personality disorder, or d) IS TOTALLY IMMORAL -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | May 23, 2008 12:27 PM
.Brandon
Presumably it's not possible, which is why it would be such a pisser to God if it did!
From the game theoretic perspective, God has two strategies (give free will/don't give) and man has two strategies (obey/disobey), which nicely fills a 2x2 box, as shown below. Hence, even the logical impossiblity is logically unavoidable as a theoretical outcome. But it should be clear why it would be the worst outcome from God's preference--then he really would be wholly incompetent.
........................... Man
.......................Obey......Disobey
.......................______________
.....Free Will......|....1...|...2....|
God.................|______|______|
....No Free Will..|...3....|...4.....|
.......................|_____|_______|
(Numbers are God's preference order, 1=best outcome.)
Posted by: James Hanley | May 23, 2008 1:22 PM
James, out of interest, which would be the best strategy for humans? -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | May 23, 2008 1:26 PM
So if God wiped out mankind (except for Noah & Family) to start over and do it right this time,because man was so f*cked up by gay marriage, why does homosexuality still exist?
Why is homosexuality so contrary to God's will? Because it's sex for sex sake without pro-creation? Do straight couples only have sex to pro-create?
Does God consider WAR, the murder of men, more acceptable than homosexuality, the LOVE or men?
Why are people SO HUNG UP on this? Why do people want to pin the sins of the world on the homosexuals? It really makes religion look preposterous!
Posted by: Robbie | May 23, 2008 1:29 PM
Robbie - remember god killed EVERYONE on Earth (supposedly), so apparently incest is OK, as long you don't screw someone of the same sex.
Relgion is prima facie ridiculous, anything these kind of clowns say is guilding the lily. -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | May 23, 2008 1:35 PM
Dingo, it depends on what humans' real interest is. Unless you know what the decisionmaker values, game theory will only lead you to the options, rather than the answer.
Of course if there really is a hell, obedience might be best, and in that case I'd say no free will/obey (because then we don't run the risk of disobedience we have with free will).
Some Christians would say that free will/obedience is best, even without hell, because that's how we can provide the greatest glory for God.
As a Promethean, I'm inclined to say the best outcome for humanity is God's worst outcome--no free will/disobedience. Because that's how we most wholly take control of our own destiny and declare our independence from God.
Posted by: James Hanley | May 23, 2008 1:50 PM
This woman is dellusional - in the early 1900's...1906 to 1920...the SAME THING was said would happen IF women got the RIGHT to VOTE..American Society would crumble...this lady is an arse!
Posted by: Disgusted American | May 23, 2008 1:51 PM
OMGWTFBBQ... a Monty Python AND a Douglas Adams quote in a single comment thread.
It will soon implode into an awesomeness-singularity. No really, it's in the Talmud somewhere, look it up.
Posted by: StuV | May 23, 2008 2:08 PM
Last month I was in Boston, which has gay marriage... it was not underwater.
Posted by: Paulathesurfmom | May 23, 2008 2:13 PM
Dammit, that verse is about how impossible it will be to predict the coming of the Son of Man, because things will be proceeding as usual and there will be no sign of the coming event.
This is clearly stated in the two verses after the one she quotes:
Anyone who can use Matt. 24:37 to argue that some particular current event is a sign of the coming Apocalypse is simply too stupid to understand what her own scriptures say. The whole point is that there will be no sign.
Posted by: noncarborundum | May 23, 2008 2:31 PM
Also this:
Ezekiel 26 says that Tyre will be destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar (it wasn't) and never rebuilt (it exists today). Discounting the whole thing in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...
Posted by: noncarborundum | May 23, 2008 2:52 PM
It's one thing to read a single-issue Folger column in WingNutDaily. It's another to listen to her free associate on her radio show. Then you see how Everything's Connected, Man.
Posted by: Foggg | May 23, 2008 3:12 PM
I'm not familiar with the "marriage contracts between men" and don't feel like researching it. But just on the common-sense surface of things, couldn't such a text or reference simply be connected with dowry arrangements? You know, two fathers (men) drawing up (between them) a marriage contract keyed to a son and daughter?
Posted by: Tim B. | May 23, 2008 3:16 PM
If you're ever interviewing somebody like that for a job, be sure to ask, "What do you want to be when you grow up?"
Posted by: Troublesome Frog | May 23, 2008 3:25 PM
So... things that were apparently cool with God (since we haven't had any worldwide deluges or fire from the sky lately):
...the Holocaust
...slavery of millions (well, actually, He said that was OK anyway)
...two major wars that lead to about 50 million people dying
...innumerable smaller genocides since 1945
But this is what pisses Him off. Gay people getting married. I really fail to see how something that is cool with widescale murder/torture/rape/etc but not cool with two people who love each other saying so publicly is worthy of worship. How can people say this kind of stuff with a straight face?
Posted by: Brian | May 23, 2008 3:53 PM
Because the alternative it to suffer eternal agony. Hold your hand one inch above a candle for 10 seconds. Now imagine that pain over your entire body. Now up the time to 1 minute... an hour... for the life age of a star... for eternity.
Now think people who fall in love with their rapist, or abused partners and children who fiercely defend their abuser. What sort of mental gymnastics do you think your subconscious would do to avoid the kind of torture some interpretations of God's damnation describe. Is it any wonder some people love God so fiercely?
This is of course not the sole source of bizarre religious thinking, nor do I mean to imply that this is a description of all religious people. But I do think that for some, loving God is a rather extreme form of Stockholm Syndrome.
Posted by: Abby Normal | May 23, 2008 4:28 PM
Actually, "God didn't give them free will and they disobey him" is not a null set. There are plenty of places in the Old Testament where the Jews ask a neighbouring tribe or king to do something, but "God hardens their hearts" so they will refuse and then he can spectacularly punish them and impress everyone. He's just a mean, twisted puppet-master.
Posted by: Monado | May 23, 2008 5:03 PM
I think it points to the wishful thinking characteristic of fundamentalist Christians/homophobes. Reality stands no chance against irrational, muddled thinking.
Oh, and projection also plays a pretty massive role. These people's irrational hatred and fear of homosexuality (and sexuality in general) trumps their conception of the wrongness of murder/rape/genocide etc.
Posted by: Sadie Morrison | May 23, 2008 5:41 PM
noncarborundum:
There's also the problem that the reason for Jesus' warning was that the world was supposed to end soon.
Matthew 24:34
Posted by: David Ratnasabapathy | May 23, 2008 5:54 PM
Interesting.
Many students of the sociology and history of religion in the area concerned have speculated that the original flood story is likely an artifact from when, what would become the Black Sea, flooded when the land bridge and natural dam near present day Istanbul failed. A huge area flooded and and potentially an entire culture displaced. I would say wiped out but according to the best efforts I have seen say the water depth rose so slow that few, if any, people should have drowned.
Underwater scans of the Black sea shows that there were a considerable number of inhabitants in the area that flooded.
So what this nut is saying is that if gay marriage becomes legal the Black sea will flood? How do you flood a sea? Or are they saying that GW caused sea rise is the wrath of God? I thought most of these people didn't believe in GW. Are they saying that if we eliminate Gay marriage God will stop GW?
I'm not sure what they are saying. It is very confusing.
Posted by: Art | May 23, 2008 10:12 PM
And to go right back to the beginning of the article..... if someone came to *me* and started explaining all this stuff about the "Babylonian Talmud," I would have said: Wait, wait. Stop right there. What is the Babylonian Talmud? Where are the originals? Who has studied and published on them? How do we know how old they are or who wrote them? Is there only one version of what they say? How have they been transmitted through time? What translation are you working from? What do other scholars say about your interpretations here? Et cetera, et cetera.
Goodness knows you can "prove" just about anything from, say, Nostradamus, after a little creative "interpretation." I'd suspect that just about any other prophetic text is likely to generate just as many different scenarios depending on who's interpreting it.
Posted by: Chrissl | May 24, 2008 1:24 AM
Good golly, people! Don't just sit there posting and reading!! There's a lot of work that needs to be done and ASAP, so let's get moving!
OK. First, who knows where to get us some decent gopher wood? Someone, google "gopher wood suppliers." And, someone figure out how many cubit feet of gopher wood we're going to need, OK?
And can someone pitch in by pitching in some pitch?
And, I guess we need to start gathering up the animals right away, because there are--what?--like a lot of 'em, and I don't think they're all going to come willingly. And we need to get two of every kind, one male and one female of each. Note: neutered animals are not acceptable! What would be the point?
I have a number of surely unaltered chipmunks who live under my garage. I'll get us a pair of those. OK, that's one pair taken care of.
Now...Do I have any volunteers to get us a pair of Western Brown Snakes? And who's willing to round up a couple of grizzlies? And who's going after a pair of hippos? And we need some tiger wranglers.
Do we have any good swimmers with us? We need people to get those sea critters--and don't you all come back with sponges OK?
And can anyone grab us a pair of: Mexican long-nosed bats, Jamaican fruit eating bats, Kitti's Hog-nosed bats, and Asian Parti-colored bats? Geez! So much to do, so little time!!
(Do you think that anyone would mind if we don't take roaches with us, because I can deal with snakes, spiders, and bats, but roaches really creep me out.)
And someone needs to find out what all these critters eat, and start loading the wombat chow etc.
And, how many poop bags do you think we'll need?!
Does anyone know what happens to all the plants when the flood comes? I don't recall any instructions about taking plants on board the ark, but surely, they didn't just all start growing again after the waters subsided. (Oh, wait!...Maybe God took care of the replanting part. Guess He wasn't interested in His having to replace all the plants AND all the animals. So he performed a miracle and replaced all the plants Himself, but assigned saving all the animals to Noah.)
Geez! So much to do, so little time!!
Posted by: bastion | May 24, 2008 2:51 AM
Bastion - Male Wombats (like most men) eats, roots, shoots and leaves.
There that's my part done, now I can relax till the flood comes :) -DJ
Posted by: DinGoJack | May 24, 2008 3:07 AM
Somewhere between noncarborundum at 2:31 PM and DJ at 3:07 AM, I realized the root of the problem. See, people like to think that they are made by an ISS (Invisible Supernatural Spook) but they clearly observe that people are made by boys and girls having sex. In people's minds the acts of sex become a metaphor, a stand-in, a second for the ISS of choice. Some sex acts make people. Some don't. Some make people feel happy. Some don't. And endless combinations of emotion. Endless!
I can only guess the results that ensue when the immaculate act of an ISS creating a human life becomes subsumed in an argument concerning the relative merits of the varieties of sexual practices and the emotions that result. The hard part is that the emotions that result from various forms of sex are often more immediate and intense than the emotions that result from fiddling about with ideas about ISSs. Except for some people (or possibly all people at least once but they got over it).
From the mountain to the molehill! Oh, dog! What shall we ever do?
Posted by: Crudely Wrott | May 24, 2008 9:51 AM
Oh how excluded I feel now :( -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | May 24, 2008 10:00 AM
Three doctorates, and feels the need to wave them around? Sure sign of crankery.
Satinover is a crank. He wrote a book arguing the case for the Bible Codes.
The thing that kills me is that she's so impressed that Satinover and the rabbi are quoting the Talmud, which also calls her religion idolatry and claims that Jesus was practicing black magic. I don't know which is worse - Christian antisemitism or Christian Judeophilia.
I can't stand it when Jews get into bed with the Christian Right. An unholy marriage of convenience.
Posted by: Jeff Eyges | May 24, 2008 9:17 PM
What makes me laugh is how ameri-centric the whole religious right is. God won't judge the world for what happens in Denmark or here in Canada, but once the USA allows gay marriage, god will pull the plug on everybody.
Posted by: Brian Larnder | May 25, 2008 1:26 AM
Wither mroberts? Is this his day off or did he take his meds and realize that the insanity he suffers from is treatable?
Posted by: democommie | May 26, 2008 9:07 AM
Democommie - I think he got himself completely trounced on another thread, and so slunk off to his den to dream yet another plot by "evil Liberals" to take over the world. :)
Posted by: DingoJack | May 26, 2008 9:14 AM
Late to the thread, but DJ said talked about marriage rates going up in MA. What has been happening is this:
Companies that used to offer domestic partner benefits for same-sex couples also offered them to opposite-sex couples. Marriage allowed those companies to get rid of partner benefits, as the same-sex couples now had an equal opportunity to get partner benefits. As a result, all the opposite-sex couples who were pulling in the benefits without making the commitment could no longer freeload off my separate-and-equal-enough status and had to get married if they wanted the bennies.
Posted by: gex | May 27, 2008 5:29 PM
All humans sin. However blasphemy will not be forgiven.
Mark 3:29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
Matthew 12:31 And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Repent! I will pray for all of you.
Posted by: Rita | May 28, 2008 2:41 AM
Rita:
Blasphemy is a victimless crime. There is no god, no holy spirit, none of your imaginary friends are real.
Rite:
Yeah, go talk to your imaginary friend and quit bothering the rest of us. It won't accomplish a damn thing, but it gives you something to do other than whine about how people who dare disagree with you deserve to be tortured for all eternity.
Posted by: phantomreader42 | May 28, 2008 1:35 PM
Gay marriage will pass eventually because without religion there isn't a defensible position. On O' Reilly's show the other night he had a gay marriage opponent on. Even Bill of Faux News told the guy that he didn't have reasonable ground to stand on.
Posted by: Neon | May 30, 2008 9:56 PM