Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
A wrestling coach in a predominately Muslim school in Dearborn, Michigan has been fired for allowing a local minister access to the team for years as he attempted to convert the kids on the team. The Detroit News reports:
A veteran wrestling coach at Fordson High School lost his job amid concerns that his one-time assistant, who is a local minister and parent of a wrestler, attempts to convert local Muslim youths to Christianity.
Wait till you hear some of the details:
According to Marszalek, parents and community leaders, Fadlallah and other parents have long been concerned about contacts between the wrestling team and a local clergyman, the Rev. Trey Hancock of the Dearborn Assembly of God.Hancock, who helped Marszalek with the team for 10 years, and whose son, Paul, is now a member, confirmed that he attempts to convert Muslim youths to Christianity and that he baptized a 15-year-old Muslim student in Port Huron a few years ago.
Meanwhile, Hancock's publicized attempts to convert a Muslim girl are at issue in a divorce case pending in the Michigan courts.
And to give you some idea just how clueless Hancock is:
Hancock insisted that he never attempted a conversion as part of his work with the wrestling team, or on school grounds. But when asked if he understood the concerns of Muslim parents, he said, "I consider it my work to pastor to anyone who is within my reach. So I can imagine they would be concerned. But is the Dearborn Public Schools going to be dictating what every pastor can or cannot do within his congregation?"
This is not within your congregation, you dolt. And you've just demonstrated why you shouldn't even be allowed on public school grounds, much less have access to students.
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Comments
Rarely is the question asked, "Is our children learning?"
Posted by: ShavenYak | June 2, 2008 11:30 AM
This just underscores the general problem with evangalism of any kind: they feel justified no matter what the law says as long as they think they are saving souls.
Posted by: BaldApe | June 2, 2008 12:13 PM
"I consider it my work to pastor to anyone who is within my reach."
In essence he is saying he has a religion induced compulsion to manipulate others and that he lacks the self-control necessary to keep himself from psychologically molesting others.
If a person confessed that hey had a compulsion to steal and that they were unable to control themselves they would be placed under professional care and kept away from or otherwise restrained to keep this compulsion from doing harm.
Likewise if a person admitted to a sexual compulsion they were unable to contain they would be kept away from situations where they could do harm or restrained as necessary.
I think the same standard should be applied. To the extent Christians feel compelled to convert people and are unable to stifle this behavior they must be either kept away from vulnerable populations or restrained.
Christians need to be excluded, much like child molesters, from locations where children tend to congregate. Places like schools, playgrounds and recreation centers. If a Christian is required to be around children they must be gagged and handcuffed during their time around the children so they can do no harm.
Posted by: Art | June 2, 2008 1:10 PM
"I consider it my work to pastor to anyone who is within my reach."
The students may be within his reach, but they are beyond his grasp. :D ( sorry)
Besides - he is a wrestling coach. Everyone is potentially within his reach - who could stop him? ;D
Posted by: Gingerbaker | June 2, 2008 1:39 PM
There is not even an allegation in the article that either the coach or the assistant coach did anything improper while representing the school. Perhaps there are such details and the paper failed to cover them, but it appears it is the Christian Coach is getting shafted here because the volunteer assistant converted some Muslim students off-campus.
If this were the other way around, Ed, you'd be the first to denounce it as bigotry (and rightly so). A Muslim majority is throwing its weight around because they've had their feelings hurt by a defection.
Art: Yes, a little light bondage with my child molesting? Hoo-boy!
Posted by: kehrsam | June 2, 2008 1:50 PM
"Hancock, who helped Marszalek with the team for 10 years, and .. confirmed that he attempts to convert Muslim youths"
So I wonder which method of conversion is the most effective, the headlock, eyegouge, or body slam?
Posted by: ds | June 2, 2008 2:28 PM
Not all coaches are assholes. I remember Coach Ellisor back in HS who responded thusly when a girl said an assignment was gay. Imagine this in a choppy and clipped SE Texas coastal accent:
Coach: "Wha choo mean itz gay?"
Student: "It's stupid!"
Coach: "Whazah gotta do with bein' gay?"
Student: "It's just gay!"
Coach: "Yah sain is hamasexl?"
Student: "No, it's just gay"
Coach: "Yah sain it likes tha sam sex? Ah doan quite unnerstanah, bu tha tha whey. Nah mah prahplem.
Student: "Whatever!!"
I gained a lot of respect for Coach that day.
Now excuse me, Ah'v ga'ah chinge the ahl in ma kahrr.
Posted by: Bacopa | June 2, 2008 4:10 PM
I coached soccer last year. Due to my e-mail address, team parents knew I was a pastor. Not once did I use that time to openly "convert" four to six year-olds. Of course I wasn't on school grounds; maybe the "secularism" of that ground would make my brain melt and Jesus to spout out. Then again....
Posted by: Rev. AJB | June 2, 2008 4:37 PM
kehrsam-
I'm hoping to interview both the coach and the assistant coach tomorrow on this story. The key obviously is whether the coach knew this was going on and allowed it. The fact that it didn't take place on school property is irrelevant.
Posted by: Ed Brayton | June 2, 2008 4:49 PM
Interesting choice of adverb Rev. AJB. ;-)
Posted by: Abby Normal | June 2, 2008 4:50 PM
Kehrsam - "There is not even an allegation in the article that either the coach or the assistant coach did anything improper while representing the school."
I see your point - on the other hand, if the coach or assistant were proselytizing their team members in ANY location, that is arguably an abuse of their authority over the team, authority derived from their public school roles.
I'd think they could preach to other kids off school grounds - but not to their team.
Posted by: BobApril | June 2, 2008 4:59 PM
I realize I'm being incredibly dense here, but what exactly did the coach or his assistant do that was so wrong it warranted being fired? If neither were proselytizing on school grounds or in their official capacities as coach or assistant coach, then I don't really see any constitutional violation here. The only thing they did wrong was evangelizing to children without the explicit permission of their parents. Grossly repugnant and unethical to be sure, but it doesn't seem to warrant firing, to me.
And I agree with kehrsam that the coach in particular was treated unfairly because of the actions of his assistant.
Posted by: Carlo | June 2, 2008 5:08 PM
Ed: Well, whether that is relevant or not just depends. Is the Assistant a school employee? The story makes it sound like he is a volunteer whose son is on the team. If he's not an employee, and he is not proselytizing on school grounds or at school events, then there is no Establishment Clause issue. He's just a minister doing his job.
Again, we need more facts, but if a group of 200-300 Christians came to a Board meeting to support a Christian principal in the firing of a Muslim or atheist coach because of their religion, which side would you take? Me too.
Posted by: kehrsam | June 2, 2008 5:36 PM
kehrsam wrote:
He was a volunteer assistant coach, but I don't think that's relevant. Whether he was paid or not, if he's an assistant coach on the team he is representing the public school. This is no different than volunteer parents in classrooms, they have to follow the same rules teachers do because they are in a position of authority over kids and they are only in that position of authority because the school allows them to be. If this distinction were relevant, any coach or teacher who wanted to proselytize those in his charge could simply bring in a minister from the outside as a "volunteer" and have them do it. I don't know if that's what happened here, but I'm going to try and find out. If the coach didn't know it was going on then he was unjustly fired for it (in actuality they just decided not to renew his contract, allegedly after years of complaints about people around the program trying to convert kids - again, I'm going to try and find out the details on that). But if the coach knew this was going on and allowed it to go on without telling the minister that he was overstepping his boundaries, then I think it's fair. I'll report what I find, of course.
Posted by: Ed Brayton | June 2, 2008 6:20 PM
Chosen on purpose, Abby Normal, because you can't completely turn off who you are at any given time. What I meant by it was that I never used "God speak" during coaching. Like I never said, "Use your God-given talent!" or "Jesus would want you to score a goal!" However, if the kids witnessed something "different" about me-that I can't help!
Posted by: Rev. AJB | June 2, 2008 8:04 PM
Ed stated:
"This is not within your congregation, you dolt. And you've just demonstrated why you shouldn't even be allowed on public school grounds, much less have access to students"
I understand where you are coming from here believe me. I have stated many times on many issues on this site that there is a difference between wisdom and having a righ to do something. Do I think it is wise to use a public school platform to convert people? No I do not. We are all there to educate and agendas need to be laid aside.
But this can go too far. I coach after school. When asked by a fellow Christian if I was sharing Jesus with my kids I said no it is illegal and should be in my official postion. But I have to say that if a kid asked me something about God I would talk to him about it at the right time and right place.
Part of the reason it could come up would be that I am a white coach in an all black city as far as sports go. Someone could come and ask me why I do it. It is my "ministry" for lack of a better term. I feel that I need to focus on this group of kids that most white teachers do not and I think God wants me to do it. It is part of me spreading His love to them.
So I think it can be tricky when we make blanket statements. I am a big fan of seperation between church and state but it can get assinine. Saying someone should not even be allowed on the property is harsh in my mind.
Should he be able to build relationships of trust with kids and if it leads to someone wanting to here about his faith and it is not on school property or on school hours? I think so at first glance. Not sure though.
Posted by: King of Ireland | June 2, 2008 10:25 PM
Should he be able to build relationships of trust with kids and if it leads to someone wanting to here about his faith and it is not on school property or on school hours?
I duuno. Why don't Jesus do it himself. Do you tell them about the throwing into hell part, or just the love part.
Which part is more important, the how much Jesus loves them part, or the how painful the eternity in hell if Jesus throws them in there part? Tough call!
Posted by: 386sx | June 2, 2008 10:57 PM
Ed: Then we're in agreement: If he was using the coaching position as a means of furthering his ministry, then that would absolutely be off-limits. That is not what is alleged so far (or, if so, the article does not make this clear). So long as the Assistant is in no way representing the school he has the same free speech rights as everyone else. If the Assistant is being a Pastor in his day job and happens to convert a Muslim kid or two, why on Earth would that disqualify him or the coach from their positions?
Posted by: kehrsam | June 2, 2008 11:07 PM
386sx: You are confused: Jesus does not throw anyone into Hell. So it makes a lot more sense to focus on the "Jesus loves you" message. I hope that helps.
Posted by: kehrsam | June 2, 2008 11:19 PM
Okay thanks kehrsam. I'm glad you know that, and I'm glad I'm confused. Thanks.
Posted by: 386sx | June 2, 2008 11:48 PM
Ed, I don't mean to hijack your readers, but I have to point out that Trey Hancock himself has entered a discussion board of this issue on Military.Com. You may have to be a member of the website to read the discussion boards - but you do not have to military or former military to join the site. You might want to join to just to see the story straight from the horse's mouth.
Posted by: BobApril | June 3, 2008 2:28 PM
Thanks for the link, Bob. I just spoke with both Jerry Marszalek and Trey Hancock and it looks like kehrsam was right. I'm going to end up writing a totally different story than the one I expected to write. The kid who was baptised that the school is complaining about? He had attended Hancock's church for 2 years before he even went to that high school and the baptism took place at a church retreat. The Muslim girl that it says he tried to convert? Her mother came to his church complaining of abuse by her husband and mother and daughter began attending his church. It didn't have anything at all to do with his job as a wrestling coach. And by the way, he hasn't been an assistant coach for the last 3 years. Totally different reality than what was presented in the Detroit News article. I'm going to talk to the school principal tomorrow, I hope.
Posted by: Ed Brayton | June 3, 2008 4:38 PM
Normally I hate the interface of blogs. I'm an oldbie who loves the "netnews" threaded structure of Usenet, and so while I read blogs like Ed's, I always have a little mental sneer back behind my nose (just up there -- if you look up the nostril, you'll see it).
But I find myself loving this story, mostly because I fell for the sell from the get-go, and the revelation (no pun intended) of the Huxleyan "ugly facts" serves to bitch-slap my mind: don't assume, never assume, the worst. Wait for the evidence. Even, or especially, when I think some caricature opponent will be embarrassed. Thanks for this thread, Ed; it's been illuminating on many different levels. I wanted to be smug, and now I can't be. Ah well.
(plus it reminded me that when I was in high school, our wrestling team hated the Dearborn guys -- go Albion Wildcats!)
Posted by: Josh Hayes | June 4, 2008 1:46 AM