Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
Found this via Pam's House Blend, which got it from Blogger Interrupted. This clueless woman from Medina, Ohio got on local TV saying that she thinks Obama is an "Arab" - not a Muslim, mind you, an Arab. So this guy from Blogger Interrupted found the woman and talked to her, not once but twice. He showed her information that Obama is, in fact, a Christian and that he has nothing at all to do with the Arab world and you have to watch her babble idiotically to justify it. Video below the fold:
But the sad fact is that this is not the dumbest person alive; this is about par for the course. She's pretty much an average American - utterly ignorant, entirely incapable of thinking rationally or honestly and blissfully unaware of either of those things. This is the person you run into at the grocery store every day. They may be perfectly nice people, but they are perfect examples of virulent ignorance.
Politics
Comments
What the foxtrot?
If anyone has Arab tendencies, it's our friend Joy. After all, she's from Medina - the second holiest city in Islam!
Posted by: konrad_arflane | June 26, 2008 9:51 AM
I can't even give this woman the benefit of the doubt...just plain ass stupid.
And I say that as a proud Arab-Irish-American.
Posted by: kac90b | June 26, 2008 9:59 AM
Man, wouldn't it suck if Hillary reverted to her Oriental tendencies in the senate?
Posted by: Enigma | June 26, 2008 10:00 AM
What's an Arab tendency?
Posted by: SteveF | June 26, 2008 10:03 AM
So damn stupid, and too damn stupid to know exactly how stupid she is.
You're right, pretty much par for the course. I have a friends who's fathers are convinced that Obama is a Muslim no matter how much info your show them to the contrary.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | June 26, 2008 10:07 AM
So aren't the folks at the Cleveland CBS affiliate equally stupid, for giving this nutjob airtime? Media decision-makers should be held responsible for promoting and publicizing this kind of crap.
I'd be more interested in the opinion of a schizophrenic homeless person, about whether he or she has noticed any changes in the panhandling income, during this economic downturn. If you're going to interview nutjobs, at least interview interesting nutjobs.
Posted by: Barn Owl | June 26, 2008 10:12 AM
What would Joy think knowing that an ELCA Lutheran church less than ten miles from me is being served by a Palestinian Arab CHRISTIAN named Bassam Abdallah? Or the fact that his congregation is 95% caucasian-not that that should mean anything? And if you want to talk to someone who has strong feelings against the Muslim faith-it is this Arab man-because of the persecution his family has received being Christians in that land.
Or for that matter that we have ELCA congreagtions in metro New York that hold worship services in ...get ready for Joy's head to explode...Arabic?
Arab does not always equal Muslim, Joy.
Posted by: Rev. AJB | June 26, 2008 10:20 AM
Do you think that it may be a cover (even unconsciously) for anti-Black prejudice?
It's more unacceptable than in the past to be openly racist. Anti-Muslim, not so much. To me, that would explain why these bigots can't let this idea go, even in the face of evidence.
Posted by: T. Bruce McNeely | June 26, 2008 10:23 AM
Hi:
I've been reading Dispatches for some time, now, but never commented before. I couldn't pass this one up, though.
I'm originally from Medina, Ohio and, for the sake of clarity and context, I feel the need to note a few things:
First, the locals in the area don't pronounce the name of the town the way they do in the middle east. The locals, instead, say "Muh-DIE-nuh". Why? I'm not really sure. I suppose, like most other linguistic phenomena, it's entirely arbitrary and subjective.
Second, and I think more amusing, is that the founder of the town (whose name has long since been eaten and spit out by my brain) originally wanted to name his new town Mecca, Ohio. However, he changed his mind when he learned that there was already a Mecca, Ohio.
You know, Mecca. The HOLIEST city in the religion of Islam.
Thanks for listening.
-Echo
Posted by: Echo | June 26, 2008 10:30 AM
Arab tendencies, you know, like a preference for strong coffee and almond pastries.
I'll cop to that sort of Arab tendency. I'm not all that into thoubs, tho.
Posted by: Cooper | June 26, 2008 10:35 AM
YouTube is blocked here at work, but the text around the post at Blogger, Interrupted indicates that this is the initial post on this lady (June 8). There is a followup post, which you can see on the Blogger, Interrupted site here. (Saw it on Pandagon last night.) I didn't think it could get much worse, but in this clip, it does.
Posted by: lonelyShoes | June 26, 2008 10:37 AM
Oh, and Pam's House Blend is blocked as well, as the filtering software thinks it is pornography, of all things. Go figure.
Posted by: lonelyShoes | June 26, 2008 10:44 AM
McNeely: It may not necessarily be a cover for anti-black prejudice, but it is definitely a conscious cover for a prejudice. The real reason she won't vote for him, and the reason she's bad mouthing him publicly as well as refusing to apologize when confronted with facts that prove her wrong, is because she votes Republican(though you see the same behavior by extreme lefties as well) and because her friends and her pastor and everyone else she spends time with won't vote for him. Calling him Arab is just a convenient insult, in her mind, regardless of whether she actually knows what "Arab" denotes or not. It is possible that she is using this to cover a secret hatred or fear of people darker skinned than her, but there is a whole web of prejudices and suppositions which reinforce this kind of statement besides that which make it unnecessary.
As an aside, I'd like to know when, exactly, people decided they had a legal right to possess willfully and knowingly false opinions. It is, of course, true that they can believe whatever they like, but they have no right to have that opinion officially recognized or protected from scrutiny and ridicule. It is such deference to opinion that drove the witch hunts of the 1500-1700's. Far from being proud of her ignorant opinion, she should be mocked and ridiculed publicly by her peers for maintaining a stance she knows to be false and a lie. I doubt her pastor will be upbraiding her for bearing false witness, however.
Posted by: Julian | June 26, 2008 10:47 AM
I lived in Cleveland for 8 years, and Medina is just down I-71 a ways. There are lots of people in that neck of the woods like this, sadly. Heck, there was an interview on NPR this morning with "swing" voters, Democrats all, one of whom said "Osama, Obama, it's just different by one letter" and "His middle name is Hussein" as though either of those idiotic statements said anything about whether Obama would make a good President or not. (For the record, I'm underwhelmed by Obama, but McCain, whom I really liked in 2000, lost me when he sold his soul to the religious right."
Posted by: Orac | June 26, 2008 10:50 AM
I like hummus, does that count?
Posted by: chris | June 26, 2008 11:05 AM
I heard that NPR interview. The comments of the average child would have made far more sense than that man's mutterings ("Osama, Obama..."). I could hardly listen to the rest...
It reminds me of Farenheit 451. Remember the woman choosing her candidate on the basis of his name? His name was "Noble", and his opponent's name was "Hogg"?
Posted by: Bob Vaiden | June 26, 2008 11:08 AM
So aren't the folks at the Cleveland CBS affiliate equally stupid, for giving this nutjob airtime?
No, CBS actually provided a service to the educated, intellectual segment of the culture by bringing this foolish person to our attention.
Posted by: mark | June 26, 2008 11:10 AM
Mom?
Posted by: Abby Normal | June 26, 2008 11:17 AM
Abby-thanks for the laugh! My secretary is wondering what is going on in here;-)
BTW where was the banjo music in the background during that clip?
Posted by: Rev. AJB | June 26, 2008 11:28 AM
And doesn't she look like she should be on that compound in Texas? Oh wait-sorry-I'm profiling by LOOKS....sorry Joy!
Posted by: Rev. AJB | June 26, 2008 11:29 AM
Arrrrrrgghhhhhhhh! With every other post here I see the character of the state in which I was born, raised and still live swirling the drain.
Yeah, she's obviously not a complete asshole - some parts are missing.Posted by: c-serpent | June 26, 2008 11:52 AM
There comes a time when one has to wonder how our schools have failed some people. Oh well, one eventually decides there's only so much one can humanly achieve, and not even bother to go after her vote. MfM = Morons for McCain.
Posted by: ebina2 | June 26, 2008 11:53 AM
c-serpent-Grew up just on the Hoosier side of the border and our running joke was this: You know what a buckeye is? (Drumroll please) A worthless nut. HAAAAA! HAAAA!
Unfortunately in this case....
Posted by: Rev. AJB | June 26, 2008 12:05 PM
They may be perfectly nice people
Unless you're a woman...and you don't have a female mullet...don't like or want kids...aren't good at trite "chit-chat"...don't eat tons of meat...do something really "weird" with your life, like writing, dancing, or pursuing an academic subject...wear make-up (or don't have to)...and aren't dressed like that.
You'll find out how quickly those church ladies can become nasty. Trust me.
I avoid dorks like her like the plague, for the sake of my not being sneered at. I try not to put myself in that position anymore.
Posted by: Kristine | June 26, 2008 12:17 PM
I know someone who is convinced Obama is a terrorist. I asked what evidence she possessed that would cause her to suspect such an outrageous thing and her response was, "A feeling; but I know I'm right!"
Like most people that support enlightenment thinking, I've struggled to define social conservative thinking these past five years; are they really as delusional as they appear or is it just virulent and/or mundane ignorance? I don't believe their willingness to believe outrageous lies about Obama is a black thing or because of his name; those just happen to be opportunities with him as their opponent. It is my hunch that social conservatives are so attracted to the "strong man" and desire for authoritarian government that panders to their faith that they'll believe any available wild-ass assertion if it supports and helps perpetuate their worldview (e.g., the decorated veteran whose men loved him, Sen. Kerry, was really a cowardly publicity seeker compared to their candidate).
I also believe their willingness to believe wild-ass assertions is getting much, much worse as the realists in the world have gotten much more effective at putting an overwhelming amount of evidence in their face that not only challenges their worldview, but discredits it. I believe this has caused them to retreat even further into their ideology. To me their faith, while incredibly hard, is also incredibly brittle since it's so easily discredited, and they sense that, which is why they spend so much time and energy redundantly reaffirming their faith rather than honestly seeking truth. I suspect most of Ed's non-Christian readers who post comments here know way more about the Bible and Christian dogma and history than the typical devout fundie/evangelical. Given their choice of developing their world view as evidence creeps in vs. avoiding being confronted by anything that challenges their preconceived notions, I believe they get more mentally ill to protect their faith.
Posted by: Michael Heath | June 26, 2008 12:21 PM
My wife, a clinical psychologist, reminds me that the average IQ is 100, and that this represents a VERY LOW level of functioning.
Posted by: Tom Ames | June 26, 2008 12:35 PM
There comes a time when one has to wonder how our schools have failed some people.
ebina,
Unfortunately you can see what happens when contradictory arguments are presented with actual evidence to people like this woman. They refuse to read the evidence, they refuse to look further into it than "read the emails," and they actively go looking for more evidence to support their position and accept that evidence without any critical evaluation of the arguments made. I see this every year with students. Given the demographics of the district where I work, they tend to be conservative, but I've also seen liberal students who will make the same sort of unsubstantiated argument and, when evidence is presented to disprove their position, they switch arguments all the while refusing to truly back off their original argument even though it has been debunked.
The only legitimate statement she made was that she didn't accept the evidence provided by the commentator because she didn't accept him as a reputable source. That was the closest she came to critical thinking in the entire segment, and that was really just a polite way of saying, "Ah don't trustya, yur a librul!"
My experience, which is in no way definitive, is that kids coming out of very conservative families effectively have their critical thinking skills driven out of them. They emphasize feeling, faith, believe, and have little or no use for evidence, facts, or data. With that trend goes their critical thinking. Sadly, their awareness goes with it.
Final point, I love how she says that Obama, as a politician, will say whatever he thinks it'll take to convince her. Now, if you had someone go to talk to her about McCain, or Huckabee, next week, or the week after, I almost guarantee that she wont say similar things about them, they're not "politicians," they're like her. It's this same BS claim that got Bush elected in the first place. The "oh, I don't like him, he's a politician," claim followed by the "but he's different," claim about their pet politician.
Posted by: dogmeatib | June 26, 2008 12:36 PM
as a friend of mine once said (don't know if this was originally his):
we all know how dumb the average man on the street is. by definition, half of them have to be dumber than that.
Posted by: benz | June 26, 2008 12:48 PM
The woman appears to be referring to Obama's apparent vote against the 2002 Born Alive Infants Protection Act, which provides, I think, that babies born alive after a failed abortion have the same legal status as other people and so would receive basic medical care.
Posted by: JuliaL | June 26, 2008 1:04 PM
World's dumbest? No, that would be Bush.
Posted by: Serjis Werking | June 26, 2008 1:05 PM
Ok I'll bite. Can anyone explain why two towns in middle America are named after holy cities in Saudi Arabia? -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | June 26, 2008 1:06 PM
This is why I think Obama is going to lose in November. It may be wrong, it may be untrue, but these people are palying for keeps. It's like McCain and his black baby in South Carolina.
Posted by: soboco | June 26, 2008 1:14 PM
Her confusion about Arab and Muslim is annoying, but it's a fairly common ignorance. I think the most appalling part was when she said she didn't want to meet Obama. What she was saying in effect was that what she had heard had more credibility than any thing she might find out for herself. I've run into that attitude before. It seems to me to reflect an unhealthy lack of self-confidence, lack of curiosity, and, worst of all, submission to recognized authority. She seemed uncomfortable with the very idea of being in a position where she might have to rely on her own judgment instead of accepting "the truth" as given to her by her betters. She had been told what the truth about Obama was and quite literally didn't want to be confused by facts. Of course this kind of willing conformity to hierarchy is the hallmark of conservative psychology.
Posted by: John McKay | June 26, 2008 1:18 PM
I live in Chapel Hill. Schizophrenic homeless people are less interesting than you may think.
Posted by: steve s | June 26, 2008 1:52 PM
Add some all-American gun rights, paranoia, and righteous aggression and you have the reason I keep my mouth shut in public. I'm beyond outraged and well into depressed.
Posted by: Phil | June 26, 2008 1:57 PM
Indiana is just the next state to the west. We also have a lot of oddly named towns. I think people thought it was exotic to name their town after a foreign city or country. We have towns in Indiana like Mexico, Peru, Lebanon (pronounced Leb-nun), Versailles (pronounced Versayles), Morocco, East Germantown (or as the name was known from WW I until the late 1970's-Pershing), Montezuma, even have a town called Gnaw Bone (which they think is a bastardization of the French Narbonne). And yes-there's even a Mecca in Indiana; but no Medina. On the other bizarre list we also have a Nulltown and an Antiville. Other states in the midwest have the same sort of town names.
Posted by: Rev. AJB | June 26, 2008 2:01 PM
Thanks Rev - Humans are funny creatures. Here there are towns called Kickatinalong, Comebychance and (my favorite) Dismal Swamp (SA). Also like Aborignal names like Wagga Wagga (lot of crows*), Tilba Tilba (very windy) and Woy Woy (much water)**. ☺ DJ
*Phrases in parentheses are the approximate meanings, as near as I can tell.
**Spike Milligan called Woy Woy the biggest above-ground cemetary in the world. His parents emigrated to Australia and lived in Woy Woy for many years. Puckoon was written in his parent's house.
Posted by: DingoJack | June 26, 2008 2:22 PM
I think the responses posted here simply illustrates the tendency of typical "NY Times reading white liberals" trying to show their alleged "superiority" over what they perceive as a bunch of "rubes" living in "flyover states".
Is Joy Atwood a moron/idiot? Of course!
But, stupidity is not limited to white Christians!
I seriously doubt any of you smug white liberals would have the balls/intestinal fortitude to comment on a video of, oh say....Louis Farrakhan expounding on some of his crackpot theories such as when he claimed at the so-called "Million Man March" that he actually was picked up in a spaceship, and visited the very DEAD Elijah Muhammad!
How about a video interviewing a "typical black guy on the street" about how AIDS is a "conspiracy by the US Government"?
We know the answer, and none of you who comment on the obvious low IQ Joy Atwood would have the guts to say the same things about Farrakhan, or any other "noble" non-European moron spouting similar trash!
So, get off your high horses, and find something more constructive to do with your lives!
Posted by: William McNellis | June 26, 2008 2:35 PM
Hey Ed, would you mind removing my earlier post with the link? Sorry to provide a dupe, didn't realize it was the same video.
And William McNellis:
I rarely post here, and when I do it is not to participate in internet flame-wars. But I'll make an exception this once.
*Ahem*
Louis Farrakhan is a bigoted idiot.
Conspiracy theorists (yes, even the folks who have weird ideas about the origins of AIDS) have their heads up their asses.
Let's add to that list: Thin-skinned conservative jerkoffs who believe all liberals are "smug" "NY Times reading white" folks? They are not just ignorant, but *willfully* ignorant. Ignorance is ignorance, but worshiping ignorance is worthy of nothing but contempt.
...And I don't even own a pair of balls.
Posted by: lonelyShoes | June 26, 2008 2:54 PM
John McKay - excellent post. You stated exactly what I tried to state only with far less words.
Posted by: Michael Heath | June 26, 2008 2:58 PM
Here in Pennsylvania we're a little sex obbsed I think. Here are some of my favorite local town names:
Blue Ball
Intercourse
Climax
(I particularly like the tale those first three seem to tell when listed in that order)
Jugtown
Lover
Stalker
Beaverdale
Big Beaver
Schwenksville
Okay, I don't really know what a "schwenk" is. But it sounds dirty, doesn't it? Then there are the folk who obviously wished they lived anywhere else. Here are a few more PA towns:
California
East Berlin
Egypt
Holland
Indiana
Jersey Shore
Mars
Mexico
Moon
Newfoundland
North East
Ohioville
Scotland
Wyoming
Yukon
And finally there are a few where it appears they forgot to name the town until some starnger came along and asked what it was called. At which point someone aparently just said the first thing they saw and it stuck.
Lawn
Railroad
Deposit
Wall
Library
Laboratory
Water Works
Paint
Honey
Peach
Plum
Ravine
Gap
Slippery Rock
Snow Shoe
Posted by: Abby Normal | June 26, 2008 3:03 PM
I am not sure if this is an "average American" ... below average, I would say.
Posted by: toby | June 26, 2008 3:08 PM
William McNellis,
Who here takes "liberal" crazies seriously? Who here claimed to take Farrakhan seriously? Please be specific and name names rather than spouting generally about the "NY Times reading white liberals", especially since I frequent this blog daily and I am not white, nor do I read the NY Times, nor would I necessarily even describe myself as a liberal.
You seem to be taking the position that because there are other crazies out there, this particular crazy (Atwood) should get a free pass. I don't think I need to explain why this is silly. Sorry, but this sentiment is probably the very reason why crazies exist in the first place -- because people give them too many free passes.
Posted by: AL | June 26, 2008 3:11 PM
>> Of course this kind of willing conformity to hierarchy is the hallmark of conservative psychology. >>
No it's not, what a stupid statement. Maybe for a few people, but you are painting ALL conservatives that way. I have argued with plenty of lefties that are bigger kool-aid drinkers than ANYBODY I have ever met. Whatever comes out of the mouths of the Democratic leadership is automatically absolute, irrefutable truth. Sure some cons are boneheads, but to think that conservatives have a monopoly on braindeadedness (forgive me for making up a word) is simply ignorant.
Posted by: mroberts | June 26, 2008 3:11 PM
I went to college in Oberlin, just a hop, skip, and a jump away from Medina, and I can tell you why it's pronounced that way. It's so you can rhyme it with "vagina" in limericks.
Posted by: noncarborundum | June 26, 2008 3:12 PM
Abby-your list reminds me of a wash we drove over outside of Sedona, AZ. It's name? Dry Beaver Wash (sounds like a hygeine product!)
The other one I saw recently-Kentucky has a state park called-I kid you not-Big Bone Lick State Park!
Gotta love the fact that Climax, Blue Ball, and Intercourse are all in the middle of Amish country.
Finally, when I was on internship in Minnesota, one of the members of my congregation showed me her engagement announcement from the 1950's. It read: "Manly man to marry Fertile girl." Think they did have a kid or two....
Posted by: Rev. AJB | June 26, 2008 3:19 PM
Erm, is that crazy fellow actually implying that someone who claimed to have been abducted by aliens would be taken seriously on this blog because of social prejudice? Seriously?
Posted by: Matthew | June 26, 2008 3:21 PM
William McNellis wrote:
And if anyone had ever said it was, you might have a point.
Really? I'll comment on Farrakhan with glee. Farrakhan is a nutcase and a bigot and I take nothing he says seriously. I'll say the same thing about Al Sharpton. So much for your serious doubts.
What in the world does "guts" have to do with anything? It's not like Farrakhan is any threat to me or anyone else here. Why would you think it takes courage to call him exactly what he is, an authoritarian fraud getting rich off the credulity of others?
Posted by: Ed Brayton | June 26, 2008 3:29 PM
I seriously doubt any of you smug white liberals would have the balls/intestinal fortitude to comment on a video of, oh
How about a video interviewing a "typical black guy on the street" about how AIDS is a "conspiracy by the US Government"?
Farrakhan has been pretty quiet recently with health and age concerns. Although his bone-head son hasn't gotten him a free pass recently. (Car accident where he was using drugs-sued by the other driver-and claiming he has no income, even though his dad gives him much "charity").
I live by Chicago where Jesse Jackson is often opening his mouth without thinking. I wanted to tell Fr. Pfleger to sit down and shut up. Same with Jeremiah Wright. They also have Todd Stroger as Cook County Board President. He's black, liberal, and does a damn good job of looking and sounding stupid. He was "appointed" to the job after his dad suffered a stroke. Let's see, there's always at least one person in the "liberal" media each day I'd like to throttle.
No, I just have problems with stupid poeple on both sides of the fence. BTW I was a conservative at one time!
Posted by: Rev. AJB | June 26, 2008 3:30 PM
We know the answer, and none of you who comment on the obvious low IQ Joy Atwood would have the guts to say the same things about Farrakhan, or any other "noble" non-European moron spouting similar trash!
Trashing Farrakhan is like stepping on dirt. Nobody believes that lunatic. You haven't heard anyone diss him? I've never heard anyone do anything but diss him! Sit down, have a drink, watch some Arab tendencies (there you are, SteveF!), and chill out. Geez.
(Speaking of "Arab tendencies," I perform at Farmer's Markets - maybe I should perform at hers. Would Joy contact Homeland Security for my "terrorism" or due to the popular misconception that belly dancing is "stripping"? Would Farrakhan denounce every non-white man who gawked? Would Rev. Wright denounce me as an obvious plant to spread the white devil's AIDS, heretofore manufactured in U.S. labs? Would Oprah ask me on her show? Would Obama denounce McCain for throwing public $$ at me? Would James Dobson die of apoplexy? The possibilities are endless.)
Posted by: Kristine | June 26, 2008 4:21 PM
Posted by: Taz | June 26, 2008 4:22 PM
Julian asks: "I'd like to know when, exactly, people decided they had a legal right to possess willfully and knowingly false opinions."
Harlan Ellison, bless his heart, says: "No, you are NOT entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to an INFORMED opinion!"
Posted by: Jonathan Vos Post | June 26, 2008 4:23 PM
I really wish I had thought to ask my college speech prof (who's a linguist) about that, but I don't think it's as arbitrary as you think. What about the following:
Lima, OH is pronounced LYE-ma and not LEE-ma
New Madrid, MS is pronounced New MAA-drid and not New Muh-DRID
Papillion, NE is pronounced Pa-PILL-yen and not Pap-EE-on.
These are just ones I know of, the list probably goes on.
I've always thought that Midwesterners seem to like to steal names for towns and cities from other countries, but have a pathological need to change the pronunciation to make them palatably AMERICAN.
Or maybe they just don't want to confuse the kids too much in Geography, dunno.
Posted by: twincats | June 26, 2008 5:25 PM
People are stupid. This is a fact. This extremely stupid person only exhibits even more of a cultural and biological natural abundance, or even superabundance. Not a heck of a lot anyone can do about it, either; we must simply cope with being in a universe where most of the only other beings we can communicate with and appreciate emotionally are, well, fucking dumb.
Obama seems on a collision course with victory, but I'm not going to place a bet too soon in the secure knowledge that the stupids of humanity are not going to disappear by November.
Posted by: AlWest | June 26, 2008 5:47 PM
Hi, my name is William..
(hi William!)
..and for fun I burn strawmen.
It really is pathetic when the best a person can come up with is a reference to Farrakhan. I know black liberals who were mocking Farrakhan as long ago as the mid-80s.
William, if you have any interest in what liberals actually think, you might try listening to what they say, rather than spouting off a stream of cliches.
But I guess because Farrakhan is black, and because blacks tend to support liberals politically, it must logically follow (through the law of the obscured converse) that liberals support Farrakhan!
Posted by: RickD | June 26, 2008 5:58 PM
The really revealing thing about what William McNellis said, and what is most insidious about the modern conservative movement, is how he treats his speculations (of who would or would not criticize Farrakhan) as fact. This is the pat conservative comeback. Show them evidence that someone they like has flaw X, and they retort with "The other side does too!" with no evidence at all to back them. It is nearly constant. I do not see nearly as much of this among liberals, even when I disagree with them. It seems to be an overwhelmingly conservative problem.
Posted by: Science Avenger | June 26, 2008 6:46 PM
To add to the list of (Midwest) towns that are horribly pronounced: San Jose, IL (pronounced "San Joes" rather than the correct Spanish "Sahn Ho-say").
Posted by: The Christian Cynic | June 26, 2008 6:49 PM
"as a friend of mine once said (don't know if this was originally his):
we all know how dumb the average man on the street is. by definition, half of them have to be dumber than that."
Shouldn't that be "half of them have to be dumber than the median man on the street"?
Posted by: Gareth | June 26, 2008 7:06 PM
Well, sheeyite, I am a liberal atheist who lives on the East Coast, but I don't like Farrakhan either. So, does that prove I'm a real thinkin' liberal instead of just a smug NYT-reading one? Oh, and I used to argue with feminists all the time on the late-lamented Ms. boards. So go burn (or smoke) some more strawmen, there, Billy and Mroberts!
Posted by: Adrienne | June 26, 2008 7:33 PM
The other one I saw recently-Kentucky has a state park called-I kid you not-Big Bone Lick State Park!
But there actually is a good reason for this apparently strange name. The park is a natural salt formation (hence the "lick"), where animals have been coming (and dying) for thousands of years, hence the "big bone(s)."
Posted by: dogmeatib | June 26, 2008 7:34 PM
Please, no more straight lines like that. Please.
Posted by: Mike Haubrich, FCD | June 26, 2008 7:41 PM
Michael Heath:
Thanks for complimenting me on my brevity. Just to show I didn't really deserve it, I went and expanded it into a much longer post at my place.
mroberts:
Maybe in the longer version I explain it well enough that it doesn't seem as stupid. Maybe not. In either case I'd be interested in your opinion.
http://johnmckay.blogspot.com/2008/06/fear-of-facts.html
Posted by: John McKay | June 26, 2008 8:01 PM
It's simple: the town names (Lima, Medina, Cairo, Moscow, etc) are pronounced as though they were English words, not whatever language they're from. They were generally named by people who had only read them, not been to them.
Posted by: The Ridger | June 26, 2008 8:03 PM
You might notice that there are no preservatives in her cranberry bread. I didn't know that the "bread of life" had canola oil and vanilla in it. This woman is a wackaloon, but I gotta believe that her cooking rocks.
Manna from Medina.
Posted by: BobbyEarle | June 26, 2008 8:18 PM
Thanks-I did know that. But the sophomoric part of my brain still loves that name! And my wife's response to it: "I wonder how often they have to replace that sign?"
Posted by: Rev. AJB | June 26, 2008 10:00 PM
Don't forget KAY-ro, Illinois.
Posted by: Turcano | June 26, 2008 10:15 PM
And how could I have forgotten New Palistine, Indiana-prom=nounced palis-TEEN?
Posted by: Rev. AJB | June 26, 2008 10:19 PM
The latest tonight...he had the county lease him an SUV that gets 14 mpg and plans to use Homeland Security money to have it retrofitted with computer and phone capabilities. Just saw that on the news as I was writng my last post.
Posted by: Rev. AJB | June 26, 2008 10:31 PM
Bourbonnais, IL was founded as a French trading post. Its residents pronounce it bur-BONE-is.
Posted by: wrpd | June 26, 2008 10:47 PM
William McNellis "NY Times reading white liberals"
Silly bunny, the New York Times can't read.
On a side note, I just got back from my Fun with Context & Semantics! class. It's kind of a misnomer, really. It's fun, but not fun with an exclamation point fun.
Posted by: Modusoperandi | June 26, 2008 10:48 PM
i attended high school in churubusco, indiana. turns out, when the time came to name the town, churubusco, mexico was the most exotic name in the newspaper that week. i would guess that a lot of places received their names in a similar way.
Posted by: coreydbarbarian | June 26, 2008 11:15 PM
Farrakhan talking about wheel-shaped UFO's the size of cities, just like in Ezekiel:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dtiVP-E2eFI
His argument about Independence Day making lots of money is great. It must be true!
Posted by: Paul W. | June 26, 2008 11:21 PM
Obama/Osama? What about Satan/Santa? Eh?
Posted by: Paul Murray | June 26, 2008 11:43 PM
Coreybarbarian - lucky Nobby's Head wadn't in the news. -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | June 26, 2008 11:51 PM
Reminds me that one of my favorite all-time SNL skits was the Church Lady making that point....could it be........SATAN!
Classic!
Posted by: Rev. AJB | June 27, 2008 12:03 AM
I've seen no evidence that this is an accurate description of "an average American," any more than it's an accurate description of a citizen of any other country.
Posted by: Gretchen | June 27, 2008 1:08 AM
AJB,
okay, this is adolescent, too, but thanks to wikipedia history my favorite entry of all time is permanently preserved:
Todd Stroger
Obviously, William McNellis does not live in Chicago.
Posted by: Dr X | June 27, 2008 1:15 AM
Shouldn't that be "half of them have to be dumber than the median man on the street"?
Not really, no. "Average" is a rather slippery term for central tendency and is used variously to refer to mean, median or mode...
Posted by: DrugMonkey | June 27, 2008 1:37 AM
Gretchen wrote:
Oh, it may not be true only of Americans. I just only have experience with Americans. As someone who has lived in three countries, you might have some insight into whether this is true elsewhere as well that I don't have. I suspect it is.
Posted by: Ed Brayton | June 27, 2008 1:56 AM
Hooray for free speech!!!! It helps identify the idiots!
Posted by: blurdo | June 27, 2008 2:02 AM
Ed, the average American is not "utterly ignorant, entirely incapable of thinking rationally or honestly" and you well know it. You deliberately seek out stories of such people on a daily basis, which slants your view terribly. There's nothing wrong with pointing out the existence of such people and the harm they cause-- in fact, it's very good to do so-- but to portray such people as the "average American" is itself an example of irrational, dishonest, and (dare I say it?) elitist thinking and has no place on this blog.
Posted by: Gretchen | June 27, 2008 2:25 AM
To Gretchen's point, I would argue this person represents not the average American, but the average social conservative as I pointed out in my original comment on this thread as did John McKay, i.e., the 28% of Americans who continue to believe our current President is just dandy and which represent about 56% of the GOP.
Not that the Dems also don't have their idiots, but they only make up some percentage of 14% of the total population, where I have not seen any data that on what percentage of that 14% they represent.
My personal experience is that I've never met a social conservative who is able to think beyond their preconceived beliefs, ever. I do read some blogs by what I've found to be their best and brightest, e.g., Albert Mohler and Joe Carter, but even their preconceived notions of reality prevent any rational positions when those notions are confronted with overwhelming evidence that discredits them. Therefore, social conservatives have no resources to help them reach not only the truth, but reality itself, making for a perfect storm of mass delusion that has not greatly affected a political party, the Executive branch, and to some smaller degree, Congress and SCOTUS.
My goodness, we have millions of people that still believe in a 6500 year old universe.
Posted by: Michael Heath | June 27, 2008 6:17 AM
Sorry for the clerical errors above, notably, I meant to state: "Therefore, social conservatives have no resources to help them reach not only the truth, but reality itself, making for a perfect storm of mass delusion that has not only greatly infected the GOP, but also the Executive branch and to a smaller degree, Congress and SCOTUS. The problem is even worse in many state and local gov't entities as Ed points out regularly here with cases like the Dover school board, Mr. Freshwater, Sally Kern, etc."
Posted by: Michael Heath | June 27, 2008 6:24 AM
Gretchen wrote:
I'm afraid I don't know what you claim I know. I truly believe that what I said was correct and that this person does represent the average American. I suppose I may be wrong, of course, but I don't see why it would be irrational or dishonest to say so. These are the folks I grew up with in a typical American suburb. These are the people I run in to every day. This particular person may represent a particularly virulent type of ignorance, but it certainly isn't far off from your average Tom, Dick or Harry (to borrow a hoary phrase). In fact, the woman in this video is in some ways better than the average person in the sense that they actually are involved in political measures at some level (by actively seeking out information from Concerned Women for America, a political interest group, something most people don't even bother to do). She's probably more politically engaged than the average person (though the sources she chooses only further turn her mundane ignorance into virulent ignorance, which probably makes it even worse).
I recognize that this is all anecdotal, but it's quite difficult to design a scientific study to determine the identity of the "average American" or the "typical man on the street." And decades of polling data certainly supports my position. We could dredge up poll after poll of typical Americans that show abysmal ignorance of virtually every subject imaginable. 1/3 of the population at this very moment can't identify the Vice President of the United States, while less than half know who Nancy Pelosi is (if anything, the lady in that video would likely know at least those basic facts and is thus ahead of many typical Americans). And those are American leaders; only 1/3 can identify Putin as the leader in Russia. As Michael Heath states above, and many polls confirm, nearly half the American public thinks the world is a few thousand years old. One can go on and on with such results that I think firmly support my position. Yes, I really do think that the typical American is terribly ignorant. In most cases, they're probably capable of reasoning at least at a minimal level, but don't bother 90% of the time.
As for that being elitist and elitism having no place on this blog, I can only say that I'm surprised that after knowing each other as long as we have you are just now recognizing that I am nothing if not an elitist. I don't think that's a terrible word or a terrible thing to be, I think it's a perfectly reasonable recognition of the reality of the world in which we live. I am an unabashed elitist. Some people really are smarter and better informed than the average person, whether it's polite to say so or not. I am not one of those folks who utters silly platitudes about the "wisdom of the people." The people, as a whole, are ignorant sheep. That's why I value liberty over democracy when they are in conflict (and they often are).
Posted by: Ed Brayton | June 27, 2008 7:25 AM
After watching that strange, strange woman prattle on, I was struck by something. Whether that woman would want to admit it or not, she, like everyone else, has at least one of these supposed "Arab tendencies".
It's called the Arabic numeral system.
Posted by: Mike G | June 27, 2008 8:17 AM
Re Mroberts
Rev. Farrakahn is not more stupid and insane than James Dobson, the late Jerry Falwell, or Pat Robertson.
Posted by: SLC | June 27, 2008 8:32 AM
Even if Barack Obama were of Arab decent, why should it reasonably matter? As long as he values liberty, human rights, capitalism, secularism, democracy and the scientific method, let our President be of Arab, African American, Asian American, Caucasian, Native American, Pacific Islander or Aborigine descent (to name a few). Respect him for his beliefs, values, leadership skills and adherence to reality, not his ancestry.
Posted by: Genuinely Doug | June 27, 2008 10:53 AM
Mike G "Whether that woman would want to admit it or not, she, like everyone else, has at least one of these supposed "Arab tendencies". It's called the Arabic numeral system."
Arabianic numberals? Pah! She uses good ol' American math, like they got painted on the hoods of them Nascars that go roundy-round on the TV.
Genuinely Doug "As long as he values liberty, human rights, capitalism, secularism, democracy and the scientific method"
There's yer problem right there. Now me, not bein' one of them big city school goin' to, activist judgin', foreign car drivin', America hatin', liberal elitists don't know much about some of them words, but even I can see that you gots "secularism" and that "scientifical method" mixed in with them good stuff.
Posted by: Modusoperandi | June 27, 2008 11:16 AM
dj, agreed. very lucky.
and regarding joy atwood:
my weekend job (supplemental income) is delivering pharmaceuticals in northern ohio, indiana, and southern michigan. from all appearances, joy atwood does seem to represent the local mentality quite well.
Posted by: coreydbarbarian | June 27, 2008 11:37 AM
Ed said:
Good lord, I do not in any way share your apparent belief that people are better if they engage in the political process. Most people who so involve themselves manage to make things worse for everyone else. The world would be a better place if more people had absolutely no interest in using the law to control other people's behavior.
Knowledge and reasoning ability are two quite different things. Yes, the typical American is ignorant of a ton of things-- so are you, and so am I. A typical American may be able to name a single person on the Supreme Court, but could fix your car in a heartbeat. I for one do not believe that the former ability is somehow superior.
Reasoning ability? Reasoning about what, exactly? It makes a difference. Your average bartender may not know which two cards he has to turn over to confirm that all cards with a red heart on one side must also have an odd number on the other side, but he can sure tell you that people with a drink in front of them must be 21, and only 21 year olds should be allowed to drink. Most people haven't taken a critical thinking course, because most of the time their critical thinking is not about syllogisms-- it's about getting insurance, paying taxes, making the mortgage payment, and so on. That's reasoning, and most Americans can do it.
That's not what I meant. What I meant is that you appear to think that if somebody doesn't give the same priorities to the same political issues you do, they belong on the short bus. Sure, maybe you're smarter and more knowledgeable and even a better person. But that doesn't make the average American a garden slug, which is basically what you said.
Apologies for being so blunt, but your comment was really obnoxious and, whether you think so or not, very out of character.
Posted by: Gretchen | June 27, 2008 5:24 PM
I think you may all be making a very basic mistake here.
We are talking about social conservatives, right?
So why presume they are supposed to be doing any "thinking"?
A conservative, by definition, wants to preserve/restore an established order, right?
Not change it or anything. So why think?
You affirm your social position, choose your alpha male, rally the troops, get into power, and proceed to preserve/restore order.
Simple as that.
So why think? That's just asking for trouble.
Loyalty, perseverance and conformity is all that matters, and she was doing that quite nicely, from what I could see.
Actually, asking her for an coherent, reasoned argument to support her position seems kind of unfair. That is totally, completely irrelevant.
The interesting thing is that she apparently finds the "Obama wants to kill live babies" thing credible. She seems to find it quite plausible that a presidential candidate may advocate baby murder.
Like that's just one of those things people do?
But then, I'm not American, so what do I know...
Posted by: tes | June 27, 2008 5:32 PM
tes: If it were just social conservatives, you might have a point, but there are plenty of liberals and libertarians (and others) whose reasoning skills are not finely homed. Based on my years in politics, those people who get worked up over a single issue are the most ignorant, not just about politics in general, but often about the arguments offerred by the other side of their issue, be that abortion, or gun control, or immigration, or tax policy, or whatever.
Public policy analysis is not something a person picks up overnight; they learn enough to meet their particular needs and no more. This woman is simply not going to vote for a Democrat under any circumstances, so the fact that Obama is a Democrat is all she cares to know. The rumors she has heard are merely confirmation bias of what she already believes.
Posted by: kehrsam | June 27, 2008 5:46 PM
kersham: Quite correct. You might find dogged, literally unthinking defenders of any position, right or left or whatever.
My point is that ignorance, or indeed low general intelligence, if that is what we are seeing here or elsewhere, is not necessarily a drawback in a fight. This woman may actually have made a rationally defensible choice of position.
Ignorance may really be strength.
At the very least she is clearly not open to fancy seditious arguments from the other side, so her loyalty seems secure. That is invaluable.
Anyone who tries to discuss things with her will eventually just give up and go home. Another victory to them, then.
Debating the relative philosophical merits of idealist notions like truth, justice and the american way of life, on the other hand, may be little more than a waste of time when it comes to a lot of people.
Right does not make might. It's the other way around.
Your opponent, meanwhile, just has to be loud, large, deaf and stubborn enough not to bulge. And, ideally, aggressive enough to make somebody else leave and so gain some ground.
There may, or may not, be some evolutionary advantage to stupidity as we know it...
Posted by: tes | June 27, 2008 6:47 PM
tes:
"I think you may all be making a very basic mistake here.
We are talking about social conservatives, right?"
Along with other comments above tes seems convinced that all social conservatives must be as dumb as a box of rocks and Joy is the perfect proof of that fact... An open mind might find some of them to be otherwise.
Does anyone not think a somewhat clever person could dublicate this video with an anti-McCain subject in the spotlight?
Posted by: Rich | June 28, 2008 3:07 AM
Ed:
"Yes, I really do think that the typical American is terribly ignorant. In most cases, they're probably capable of reasoning at least at a minimal level, but don't bother 90% of the time."
Ed it strikes me that one of the qualities that makes your writing interesting is the definitive tone and stance you take on subjects. Here you are overstating IMO the level of ignorance... taking into account the vast amount of knowledge required to really be anything BUT ignorant on most subjects.
I just read all the comments on the gun control post and while very interested I felt unable to add anything of value due to my ignorance of the constitution and supreme court workings. As Gretchen brought up, many of these "typical" americans have a great deal of knowledge in areas you may consider trivial but they do not. Most likely they will wait until old age to retire to Arizona/Florida and complain in detail about the government.
Posted by: Rich | June 28, 2008 3:08 AM
You should have asked her how Arabs think, what effect that would have, and what's specifically wrong with that. I am still unclear as to how Arab tendencies are different from the kinds of tendencies other kinds of people would have.
Posted by: cfc | June 28, 2008 8:13 AM
As a non American, that stupid woman reconfirms my opinion of "Americans" by that l mean white, small town types. Killing babies is not new, thats what the German people were taught about Jews! that they drunk the blood of young children(gentile of course) thats how the Nazis were able to do what they did! l believe that these so called Christians are very dangerous people.
Posted by: colin syme | June 28, 2008 8:57 AM
that woman votes.
america, you guys are screwed :D
Posted by: xav | June 28, 2008 11:37 AM
so you preyed on a woman you knew was wrong beforehand without allowing her any time to review her own arguments or gather evidence supporting her opinion. Congrats, you're a cunt
Posted by: obamcainhater | June 28, 2008 1:16 PM
obamcainhater "so you preyed on a woman you knew was wrong beforehand without allowing her any time to review her own arguments or gather evidence supporting her opinion."
The thing is, her opinion would not have changed in any case. If he provides evidence that her position is based on falsity, she'd just move to new falsities, and her opinion would not have to change. Her opinion of Obama went from him being an arab, to him having arabian tendencies. Oh, and the killing babies thing.
On the plus side, in the original interview, she said "airahb", rather than the dangerously redneck'd "ay-rab". I try to look at the silver lining, which in this case is stretched mighty thin around an ugly, ignorant cloud.
Posted by: Modusoperandi | June 28, 2008 1:48 PM
That looks like Rudy Giuliani in drag.
Posted by: Jonathan Cremin | June 28, 2008 2:48 PM
Woweeee wow wow...People like her make me angry and ashamed to be a part of this nation.
People like "Gretchen" who stick up for this willful ignorance only serve to exacerbate the problem. I can fix a car therefore it is okay to be stuck in the medieval ages when it comes to politics and putting people in charge who have the power to make laws and be trusted with guiding us to a better place with a brighter future to leave for our kids. Goofs like this "Osama" lady put this country where it is today: in debt, 4,000+ dead, oil at record prices, health-care and insurance are skyrocketing, social security is still not solved.....
But can she fix a car? because that is > than everything I mentioned above that this woman and apologists here seem to hang their hat on?!?
Posted by: Dave | June 28, 2008 3:22 PM
Abby: Wisconsin takes the cake for weirdly sexual town names... Felch. And Spreadeagle.
But Felch, lol. Need I say more??
Also, there's a Medina, Wi. Pronounced Meh-DIE-nuh as well. And a Berlin, pronounced BUR-lin. Which just sounds stupid and lends yet more credence to the "Jesus H. Christ, Americans are fucking stupid" argument. Or whatever it is. More of a truism, maybe.
But I agree with Ed. I think that fat, stupid, bread baking bitch ain't that far from average. I'm sure she's a wonderful baker who loves her children and means well, but she's still a stupid bitch.
And Dave, calm down. Gretchen isn't sticking up for ignorance.
Posted by: Leni | June 28, 2008 4:14 PM
Arrrgh! The STUPID! It BURRRNNNSSSSS!!!!!
I had a pastor like that back in my fundamentalist daze(sic), two actually. Logical leaps and uncritical acceptance of propaganda were A-OK, as long as it was from a rabit source or (God help us) Rush Limbaugh. How I escaped that phase of my life with my grey matter intact I'll never know...sheesh...
Posted by: Todd | June 28, 2008 5:15 PM
What the hell are you talking about? The woman was interviewed a total of THREE separate times--once by the news and twice by the blogger who made the video. She was given information to follow up on, and had time to do her own research and make her case. She quite obviously failed to do this.
And the result was the video we see. She was given plenty of time to gather evidence, review her arguments, and present her case, but the best she could do was a single highly dubious claim from CWA that Obama wants to kill babies. It is safe to say that she was given a fair chance to make her case, but only ended up proving what an idiot she is.
It seems to me that either 1.) You aren't paying attention at all, or 2.) You'll take any opportunity, no matter how bogus, to call someone you don't like a cunt.
Posted by: Wes | June 28, 2008 6:40 PM
I love goofy town names. In Oklahoma, we have towns called Gay, Hooker, Beaver, and Rubottom.
And there was also a Berlin (BUR-lin, like in Wis.), but it's a ghost town now, last I heard. We also have a Prague (Prayg), and a Miami (mie-YAM-uh).
Posted by: Wes | June 28, 2008 6:47 PM
Ed Brayton, you're a prick.
Posted by: Geoff | June 28, 2008 7:11 PM
Ed is hardly a prick-- anyone who has read this blog for more than a day knows that. Nor do I blame him one bit for being absolutely disgusted that people like this woman exist, let alone live in the same country, let alone vote. I share the same feelings. This moronic woman is so certain of her moronic views that she went on television to share them, and neither the law nor common prudence should prevent us from examining those views very critically.
However, I do think it unfair to characterize the average American as intellectually dishonest and willfully ignorant. Most people aren't terribly politically savvy, and undoubtedly it would be a good thing if they knew more. But we should also remember that most people don't realize that however much they ignore politics, it won't ignore them. That's the message we need people to understand. You can't (or rather, shouldn't) just fight for the right to freedom of speech, or religion, or defense, or property, when it applies to you. Unfortunately, however, that seems to be a characteristic that applies to people the world over.
Posted by: Gretchen | June 28, 2008 7:32 PM
". Can anyone explain why two towns in middle America are named after holy cities in Saudi Arabia?"
Could be nineteenth-century orientalism, possibly with some influence from Masons or similar societies. The Shriners were founded in 1877, and they carry a whole crapload of cod-Islamic symbology.
Islam and the East were a remote, exotic, mostly harmless curiosity in those days, so there would have been no reason not to borrow their place names to add a dash of color to a new Midwestern American town.
If Mecca and Medina reminded anyone of anything in the 1800s, it would probably have reminded them of stories of Aladdin and such.
Posted by: Jon H | June 28, 2008 8:06 PM
So since Ed is now both a cunt and a prick, I guess we can expect him to start self-fertilizing any moment now. Soon there will be tons of little Ed's running around. Morons, beware!
Posted by: Wes | June 28, 2008 8:12 PM
Bet there's a video of that somewhere on the internet;-)
Posted by: Rev. AJB | June 28, 2008 10:24 PM
Seems to be a recurring theme from former Christians on this site. Man am I glad I had the pastors I did! And I'm glad this woman in the video was NEVER my Sunday school teacher...
Posted by: Rev AJB | June 28, 2008 10:29 PM
I'm guessing that Ed does not require sexual reproduction. We could probably make do with cuttings.
Posted by: kehrsam | June 28, 2008 10:31 PM
I'm guessing that Ed does not require sexual reproduction. We could probably make do with cuttings.
Did you just call Ed a vegetable? ;-)
Damn, I guess we can get away with stuff while he's off in Detroit. Next someone will start a game of Mornington Crescent!
Posted by: Eamon Knight | June 28, 2008 11:49 PM
People like this woman have their minds made up, and they will blindly "argue" on, no matter what you do or say. I had a buddy like this woman; you could (very kindly) prove him wrong and SHOW him the proof, and he would say, "I don't care, that's my opinion!" If a person has their mind made up beforehand and REFUSES to have an open mind, and will NOT take another look at something (such as the proof) they can stay blissfully ignorant, then can't they? In this womans case, she probably is in some fundamentalist congregation with a minister who rails against Obama, and she feels "unity" with this mcongregation of ninnies and will not break with that no matter WHAT. Also, I wonder if she and her congregration are prejudiced against blacks. It would have been interesting to ask her if;
1. There were any blacks in her congregration
2. If her pastor is actively preaching against Obama
(which BTW, is ILLEGAL [and unChristian-like]).
Posted by: nikolai | June 29, 2008 1:10 AM
Eamon, I'm pretty sure fruits can do that too. And weeds.
You Fruit/weed bigot! Why do you love terrorists and hate America, fruits, nuts, legumes and weeds, Eamon?
Is it because you're a baby killer with Arab tendencies?
Posted by: Leni | June 29, 2008 2:14 AM
I don't know if you intentionally typed that, but McCongregation is a good description of a lot of the new churches that are proliferating in America's heartland these days. The new McChurches popping up here in OK all look like strip malls and preach a kind of New Age self-help dogma with Jebus sprinkles on it. And their message is to the mind what a Big Mac is to the waistline and arteries.
And they definitely peddle right wing political pablum to their sheep. It's tough for the IRS to prosecute this kind of stuff because, short of an explicit endorsement of a candidate, it's not easy to prove they violated the terms of tax exemption. A lot of the politics that goes on in churches falls in a gray area of tax exemption. If it weren't for this gray area, Bush probably would not have been elected.
Posted by: Wes | June 29, 2008 3:07 AM
So Ed Brayton is a hermaphroditic libertarian with vegetable tendencies? The things you learn on this blog!
Posted by: Adrienne | June 29, 2008 9:27 AM
You Fruit/weed bigot! Why do you love terrorists and hate America,
'cuz I'm Canadian, and what's more I live next door to the French part.
fruits,
Who you callin' a homophobe?
nuts,
'cuz skeptics hate crazy people, by definition.
legumes
Legumes are vegetables, therefore included in my previous endorsement.
weeds, Eamon?
Dunno, I never smoked the stuff.
Is it because you're a baby killer with Arab tendencies?
"Arab tendencies"? I have a piece of furniture which I am told is called a "camel stool". Does that count? (We use it to sit on to take shoes on and off).
Posted by: Eamon Knight | June 29, 2008 2:44 PM
I have just stumbled upon this Blog and have been thoroughly entertained by it! Thank you all for your smart, wise, and pithy comments.
Poor Joy...the problem with being so ignorant is that she's not even aware of how ignorant she is. My relatives in Iowa are all like her. My uncle even says that dinosaurs never existed, and he said it on a day when we all traveled together to a small museum in Iowa that displays dinosaur bones found in the area! These people will not change their minds even when the truth is right in front of their eyes.
I don't feel superior to them anymore, I just feel sad for them. They are missing out on so much joy and wonder in the world because they are so afraid to venture out of their comfort zone.
But it's sad and wrong that the rest of us have to suffer the political consequences (i.e., President Bush, the current criminal administration) of the actions (i.e., votes) of these kinds of closed-minded people. It really is their fault that our country is in the mess it is in today.
All we can do is to present the facts to these people whenever we see an opportunity to (in a non-confrontational way), and then hope (and pray) that they will develop some wisdom and possibly see past their preconceived notions to arrive at some place that resembles "truth".
Keep up the good work, Ed, and all of you!
Posted by: RoseRedslipper | June 29, 2008 5:44 PM