Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
The Worldnutdaily has an amusing article about a Christian group trying to get a rather odd monument removed in Georgia.
A Christian organization is pressuring the community of Elberton, Ga., to tear down a massive, granite monument that lists an alternative set of Ten Commandments that the organization labels satanic.The monument, known as the Georgia Guidestones, was built under a cloud of mystery in 1980. It lists 10 commandments in eight different languages, including a call to establish a new world language, limit human population to 500 million and avoid being "a cancer on the Earth."
And here comes the first laugh line:
"We have atheists and Satanists getting the Bible's Ten Commandments removed from public property," said Mark Dice, spokesman for the group The Resistance, "yet the satanic Georgia Guidestones have stood for decades, and nobody seems to care. Well, we do."
Ah, but there's just one tiny little difference that Dice fails to mention: this monument is on private property. Doesn't have a damn thing to do with the government. It was commissioned by a private individual and built on property owned by a private trust that he set up. Guess what that means? It means you don't get to remove it no matter how much you'd like to.
The story of the stones really is kind of fascinating. No one knows the real identity of the person who put them up. The man who ordered them built and erected apparently called himself "R.C. Christian" but no one knows who that is. And some of the things on it are pretty stupid, like a call to keep the human population below 500 million (yeah, good luck with that one; let me know if I'm one of the 500 million who gets to kill off the other 6 billion people). But hey, since this is on private property it's no one's damn business what it says.
Politics
Comments
Ed, WND has a link of to the right offering tickets for a WND cruise! You should sign up! (Even better, you should tell your readers that you will go and give reports on the madness, but only if they pay for it.)
Posted by: Chris Bell | July 31, 2008 9:57 AM
so, he was a bit of an R.C christian then...
There is another difference, the 10 commandments don't appear to be religious.
Posted by: Richard Eis | July 31, 2008 10:07 AM
Too bad that's quite a haul from where I live in Georgia, but I will try to make the trip up there someday. Anything that pisses off the bulk of denizens of this backwater state is worth seeing, IMO.
Posted by: Vic | July 31, 2008 10:13 AM
Shit like this exposes the "We just want to put the 10 Commandments on public property for historical reasons, not to promote religion" argument for the utter bullshit it is. Anything that doesn't fit their religion, even when it's on private property, offends them--beliefs which don't fit theirs aren't even supposed to have a voice. It reminds me of all the anguish over the atheist billboards in Philadelphia. Many of the same people claiming they're being "persecuted" because they can't put their religious symbols in government buildings were also claiming they're being "persecuted" because atheists would dare use private property to advertise.
Posted by: Wes | July 31, 2008 10:19 AM
It's really sad that they seem to truly not understand the difference between private and public property/action. Secularists (re: atheists and satanists) don't go after private displays of religion. They just try to keep religion out of government (i.e. schools and public property). The ACLU has never sued a church for displaying a cross. Are they liars are just stupid?
Posted by: Jim RL | July 31, 2008 10:21 AM
They're neither; they are tin-pot tyrants trying to game the system into doing their ill-deeds for them.
Posted by: Julian | July 31, 2008 10:24 AM
Make enough noise and sometimes people will cave in just to shut you up. So, not stupid. Though they probably think they are being clever...so stupid.
Posted by: richard Eis | July 31, 2008 10:25 AM
He has since changed his name but this Mark Dice is part of Alex Jones 9-11 truthers and was the man whom Danny Bonaduce flipped out on in that viral YouTube clip.
All Dice does is make phone calls to mainly conservative talk radio shows all day complaining about the Bohemian Grove. Some of those phone calls are quite amusing.
Posted by: Jon Rowe | July 31, 2008 10:29 AM
God: All your property are belong to us.
Posted by: Elf Eye | July 31, 2008 10:43 AM
Tiffany and I went to see the Guidestones during college. It was pretty interesting. I think we have pictures somewhere of them. We went because my Sanskrit prof mentioned them in class. He did some of the translations, but made an error in the Sanskrit one. Interesting, it is the same error you can find in ancient Sanskrit inscriptions from India. So it makes them more authentic, I guess.
There were also several burned candles laying around, which suspect were from new age ceremonies.
Posted by: Reed A. Cartwright | July 31, 2008 10:47 AM
Eugene, Oregon, where I went to grad school, had a cross on public property for about 30 years. And for at least 20 of those years opponents were fighting to force the city to get rid of it. Finally, in the late '90s, after losing numerous lawsuits, the city finally gave up. They donated the cross to a local bible college, which put it up in a prominent location on its hillside campus.
So what did the cross opponents do then? Having satisfied their goal of getting it off public property, they went on to other things, wholly satisfied with the cross being on private property.
And that's the difference between them and the religious right nutjobs.
Posted by: James Hanley | July 31, 2008 10:57 AM
Posted by: Herod the Freemason | July 31, 2008 10:58 AM
Actually, if you follow the link from WND to the "Resistance" web site, you are greeted with a prominent Paypal donation box. I suspect this groups knows they have no chance of getting this removed but are simply using the issue to dupe clueless fundies into giving them money.
Posted by: Ed T | July 31, 2008 11:23 AM
"let me know if I'm one of the 500 million who gets to kill off the other 6 billion people)"
We don't have to kill them off, just have them spayed and neutered. Time takes care of the rest. I don't think the guidestones give a deadline.
Posted by: Moopheus | July 31, 2008 11:38 AM
Right-wing Christians just don't "get" the issues behind this. For them, it is not a public/private property issue. They see any expression of an idea that does not agree with them 100% as persecution; thus, the "war" on Christians. This is just another example: if anyone else expresses an opinion differing from their own, they want to shut that person up.
On the one hand, this mindset is similar to certain totalitarian movements of the past - you know the ones I mean. On a person level, though, it exposes the deep fragility of their beliefs. I just wrote an article on my blog about the fragility of conservative beliefs in general, and how anything that does not fit their narrative must be removed. I discovered that Fox News and its affiliates had completely ignored the Knoxville church shootings, even local affiliates! Ed's story fits in squarely with this mindset.
Posted by: Open Threat | July 31, 2008 11:54 AM
I don't get how this is satanic? But I can guess. Nowhere is biblegod coddled and this monument not explicitly Christian it is therefore pro-satan. Or, these pagans are some kids having a party and the Dice man is all upset that no one invited him. :(
Posted by: M Pickard | July 31, 2008 11:59 AM
Dibs on being one of the 500 million.
Now you all better really, really nice to me...
Ah yes, it's a good life. ;) DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | July 31, 2008 12:49 PM
Point for point they make more sense than the ten commandments.The only wacky one is the one on population.Ya gotta like #7 "avoid petty laws and useless officials".
Posted by: ed | July 31, 2008 12:57 PM
This might be a bit of projection on the part of WND. To them part of the "cloud of mystery" is that it was placed on private property and not public. Since that is what they would/ are trying to do they have trouble iguring out that others aren't.
Posted by: Jeremy | July 31, 2008 1:07 PM
The five hundred million number sounds like a mild version of the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement, only those people appear to be serious.
Posted by: Shawn Smith | July 31, 2008 1:09 PM
ed - The "7th commandment" simply states that human population should be kept "under 500 million" and "be in balance with nature", note the lack any stated method and any stated timetable. I can't see anything wrong with the human population being allowed (with discouragement of further growth) to drop back to medieval levels, by natural processes, without any need for violence or coercion. Kind of ties in with "not being a cancer on the Earth". -DJ
Posted by: DIngoJack | July 31, 2008 1:17 PM
Why let facts get in the way of a good propaganda piece? Besides, who said you had to tell the truth to spread The Truth?
Posted by: Jeremy | July 31, 2008 1:20 PM
oops the 7th is about "avoid petty laws & officials", perhaps I should add 7a: "avoid commenters who can't manage simple reading comprehension".
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | July 31, 2008 1:26 PM
It's a bit of a stretch to call these "commandments." As the name "Guidestone" suggests, they are pretty clearly "guidelines." Of course that's how most people approach the "commandments" anyway.
Posted by: observer | July 31, 2008 1:59 PM
I've been to this place, so if anyone wants to see more detailed pictures, look here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pradeepsp/sets/72157606469742928/show/
Posted by: pradeep | July 31, 2008 2:29 PM
The Guidestones are one of the best examples of monumental Outsider Art. Watts Towers, the Coral Castle, and the Orange Show are other examples The guidestones were obviously made by professional subcontractors and set with heavy machiery. I am surprised the secrets of who built them have not been revealed. The locals are keeping their secrets well. I'm sure they used a fairly local construction company. Hauling cranes on flatbed trucks is extremely expensive.
And some seem to have broken their vow of silence. That Sanskrit prof. And how many companies in the US sell stones like that. I'm sure that a small research staff working for a few weeks could track down the identity of RC Christian.
But why should we? Part of the appeal of the Guidestones is their mystery and the people who made them wanted to remain anonymous. Since those individuals have done no wrong, why investigate?
Posted by: Bacopa | July 31, 2008 3:03 PM
The Wikipedia article on the guidestones is enlightening.
Just out of curiosity, for those of you who have visited the monument, if it is on private property, how did you access it?
Posted by: Neural T | July 31, 2008 3:04 PM
I went to that dude's website. I don't defend christians very often, but it is almost certain that he isn't representative of even a typical fundamentalist. That guy is a crazy conspiracy theorist.
Posted by: Shadowin | July 31, 2008 3:32 PM
The work of some weed-addled hippy no doubt. I dub it Stoned-henge.
Neural... I'm pretty sure the owner of this property has made the space open, unfenced and accessible to anyone who happens by.
Posted by: Siamang | July 31, 2008 3:43 PM
DingoJack:
But there's at least the suggestion of a timetable:
(From the explanatory tablet)
I figure the 'age of reason' is at least a few thousand years away.
Posted by: llewelly | July 31, 2008 4:01 PM
It doesn't seem like it should be that hard to find out who "R.C. Christian" is -- shouldn't one be able to hunt down the property owner via the deed to the land and ask him/her who was responsible for the monument?
Regarding the "commandments" themselves, I can see why a certain element of our population might object to
* Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
* Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
* Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
* Balance personal rights with social duties.
Posted by: SWT | July 31, 2008 4:38 PM
If couples were to limit themselves (or be limited) to having only one child, this could easily be accomplished in 200 years without the need to kill anyone. The real mass die-off would come if we don't address this issue and let our population soar right past the planet's carrying capacity.
I don't know if the 500 million number is appropriate, but the idea itself definitely isn't a stupid one.
Posted by: Miko | July 31, 2008 4:43 PM
The RRR (Radical Religious Right) tend to use their own scriptures in much the same way a drunk uses a lamppost: More for support than illumination. My father-in-law is one of those; upon hearing of an earthquake in California a couple of years ago, he made the standard fundie comment, "The whole state ought to just fall off into the ocean". He did manage a half-hearted retraction when I reminded him that my parents live there, but it was obvious that it was only for my benefit.
Posted by: Blaidd Drwg | July 31, 2008 5:03 PM
Thanks to Neural T for the referral to the Wikipedia article - it was really informative and I was glad to see what the stones actually say and not taken out of context. The statements sound pretty sane - bar the population one perhaps - I am pretty happy to be here.
Why all the sarcasm regarding statements based on reason and not based on cultural or religious egocentricity? Why sarcasm indeed - that doesn't seem conducive to conversation and discussion.
Good points from Ed about the insanity of wanting private property to be dismantled simply because it is contrary to personal beliefs. The finger might want to be pointed at the narrow-mindedness of those who want to tear it down. Can we say "egocentricity" everyone?
Posted by: Mary | July 31, 2008 6:08 PM
Check out Michael Reagan calling (seriously) for Mark Dice to be shot.
http://tinyurl.com/5qehbh
Posted by: Jon Rowe | July 31, 2008 6:28 PM
Ed, I think you may be misunderstanding the population "commandment." I don't think the author was suggesting that we kill 5.5 billion people.
I believe the author was suggesting that we promote responsible reproduction as a way to bring the human population down to something less damaging and easier to provide for. It would take many generations, but as can be seen in non-immigrant populations in US and Europe, higher levels prosperity and education lead to lower birth rates.
Posted by: Josh in California | July 31, 2008 7:30 PM
The original press release claims the monument is on public property, contrary to the WND report that quotes Mark Dice:
"The Elberton Chamber of Commerce acknowledges that Elberton county owns the property, and contrary to other reports, they are not on private land."
Posted by: ttch | July 31, 2008 8:04 PM
Jon Rowe:
Did Michael Reagan always sound like Rush Likestoblow, or is that a recent development?
Posted by: democommie | July 31, 2008 9:45 PM
I like how the stones say "reason" on them yet that gets interpreted as "satanism".
Posted by: Richard Eis | August 1, 2008 4:42 AM
what part of "PRIVATE PROPERTY" do the Christianists not understand?
Posted by: Radovan Karadzic | August 1, 2008 7:07 AM
Richard, in religious wingnuttery, 'reason' is semanticaly equal to 'satanism'.
But then 'freedom' is also equal to 'satanism', and so is 'science'.
Posted by: Blaidd Drwg | August 1, 2008 7:51 AM
They have to call them Satanic commandments. Otherwise, to what religion could they be said to represent? If the answer is "none" and the stones are not a religious monument, then what basis does WND have for comparison? So obviously they must be Satanic.
I think the WND may have hit on a new tactic here. They should start declaring other things they don't like to be religious symbols. For example, if the Catholic church really wants to shut down condom distribution programs in schools they shouldn't be condemning them. They should be sanctifying them. Just add a bit of doctrine saying that when a condom is unrolled it becomes the body of Mary. Boom, establishment case the first time one gets handed out. Though I guess they'd have to stop calling her Virgin Mary. Hmmm...
Posted by: Abby Normal | August 1, 2008 9:46 AM
SWT wrote: "It doesn't seem like it should be that hard to find out who "R.C. Christian" is -- shouldn't one be able to hunt down the property owner via the deed to the land and ask him/her who was responsible for the monument?"
If the property is deeded to a trust, the deed won't help, and the trust's legal representatives might not be at liberty to say.
Posted by: Jon H | August 1, 2008 9:50 AM
What's wrong with the idea of a world language? That sounds very sensible to me. I think Esperanto is ready for wider use. Take a look at www.esperanto.net
Posted by: Bill Chapman | August 1, 2008 9:52 AM
Abby Normal wrote:
Yeah, I agree.
Just as an aside, you'd think the "real" set of Satanic commandments (as envisioned by Christian conservatives) would be more along these lines:
1. Worship Satan, or at least avoid church.
2. Cuss a lot.
3. Party your ass off on Sundays.
4. Dishonor and disobey your mother and father.
5. Kill, lie, cheat, and steal.
6. Have sex with anything or anyone who strikes your fancy.
7. Support progessive taxation.
8. Give women, gay people, and other non-Christians rights.
9. Support contraception and make it widely available.
10. Vote Democrat.
Posted by: Adrienne | August 1, 2008 10:41 AM
It's the Jack Chick definition of Satanic: anything which is not in total, ass-kissing conformity with my views is by definition Satanic.
That kind of black/white thinking is also common among paranoid conspiracy theorists, which we already know is a set which includes Mark Dice. In that worldview, anyone who doesn't totally accept the conspiracist interpretation of history is by definition a minion of the Evil Other.
Posted by: Ktesibios | August 1, 2008 12:51 PM
pradeep, thanks for the link to photos.
That thing is pretty cool.
RC Christian sounds like a play on Christian Rosenkreutz, which hints at a Rosicrucian/Enlightenment/Masonic/secret mystery-society kind of thing, which is New-Agey, which is kind of occult, sort of; so sure, it is Satanic in a mellow, alchemical, non-religious philosophical kind of way.
(I guess, if you are a fundamentalist whack-job.)
Personally, I think Satan gets the blame for all kinds of things that aren't really his fault, you know? A little Sympathy for the Devil, if you please.
Posted by: threetorches | August 1, 2008 2:12 PM
You can find a more extensive version of the Guidestones philosophy here: http://thegreatturning.net/ Though not directly influenced, the Guidestones designer was obviously thinking along the same lines.
Posted by: fyreflye | August 1, 2008 4:06 PM
Every time intentional population decrease and stabilization gets mentioned, people (who ought to know better) come out with the line-'em-up-and-shoot-em interpretation.
I'm glad some commenters here understand what depopulation entails. I agree that 500 million is too low a number, though.
Posted by: outlier | August 1, 2008 8:42 PM
thnk's'sssz
Posted by: netlog | January 24, 2009 12:54 PM