Vox Day Doesn't Like Me : Dispatches from the Culture Wars

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Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of Michigan Citizens for Science and co-founder of The Panda's Thumb. He has written for such publications as The Bard, Skeptic and Reports of the National Center for Science Education, spoken in front of many organizations and conferences, and appeared on nationally syndicated radio shows and on C-SPAN. Ed is also a Fellow with the Center for Independent Media and the host of Declaring Independence, a one hour weekly political talk show on WPRR in Grand Rapids, Michigan.(static)

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Vox Day Doesn't Like Me

Posted on: July 30, 2008 9:30 AM, by Ed Brayton

Which is okay, the feeling is mutual. Actually, he doesn't like someone named "Ed Drayton." It seems our friend mroberts has been tattling on me. He ran over to Vox Day's website to post a link and says, "Vox, looks like they're trying to bash you over on scienceblogs." Gee, I can't imagine why I would want to bash the legendary Theodore Beale. Maybe because he's a first class wingnut who thinks women shouldn't have the right to vote? Maybe because he's a pretentious ass (anyone who actually advertises the fact that they belong to Mensa as a credit deserves whatever mockery comes their way)? I think mroberts has found his new home.

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Comments

Actually, Vox doesn't much like me, either, and hasn't since very early in my blog's history. :-)

Posted by: Orac | July 30, 2008 10:12 AM

I'm in Mensa! I'm smart! Please take me seriously!

Posted by: Robski | July 30, 2008 10:14 AM

Wait a second, what's wrong with Mensa? I'm not a member, but I had been entertaining the thought of trying to get in.

Posted by: MRL | July 30, 2008 10:21 AM

I guess mroberts got tired of having his arguments trashed. I'm sure he'll find quite the willing audience for his homophobia at Theodore's clubhouse.

Posted by: Julian | July 30, 2008 10:23 AM

Can't mroberts do ANYTHING at all original? Vox Day has known about Ed -- and defensively bragging about his TURBO PORSCHE -- for years already. So even if he takes refuge with Vox Day, mroberts is STILL the intellectual runt of the litter.

Posted by: Raging Bee | July 30, 2008 10:28 AM

In all fairness, I don't think Beale's bragging about membership of Mensa is the clearest or most important indication of his pretentious-ass-ness. His own writing is far worse.

Posted by: Dunc | July 30, 2008 10:32 AM

From what I've gathered, MENSA is a place for people who are smart on paper, but have few if any other accomplishments to their name. It can be like a Napoleon complex for really good test takers. Many of the members I've met and interacted with try to use their membership as some kind of intellectual leverage, trying to dismiss arguments and other people as simply not being MENSA quality, and therefore unworthy of notice.

Thats just going on my encounters with its membership though. Maybe I had an unrepresentative sample.

Posted by: random guy | July 30, 2008 10:32 AM

But he's so menacing!!

Be careful he's got a big flaming sword and he's not afraid to use it.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 30, 2008 10:46 AM

Where did this 'socially autistic' jibe come from, anyway? I'd never seen it until about a month ago, and now it's popping up all over the place. I'd find it vaguely offensive if it wasn't so deliciously ironic. Castigating others for a lack of social awareness by invoking the stigma of a serious developmental condition. Ingenious!

Posted by: MartinM | July 30, 2008 10:50 AM

Well, look at it this way, Ed -- it would be a lot worse if Vox Day did like you!

Posted by: Julie Stahlhut | July 30, 2008 10:53 AM

Personally I think his pretentiousness is sign-posted most boldly by the phrase 'Memetic Hunter-Killer' at the top of his blog. I wonder how much he knows about meme-theory? I can't imagine he's a big fan of Dawkins'.

I find the phrase 'socially autistic' a bit strange as well. What does it even mean, as oppose to just 'autistic'? Isn't it a bit like saying 'mentally insane'?

Posted by: chemniste | July 30, 2008 11:02 AM

More like crazily insane or silently mute.

Anyone who would say that doesn't have much experience with autism, considering that an inability to deal with social interaction is one of the primary markers of autism.

Posted by: Julian | July 30, 2008 11:16 AM

Too funny to ignore - Theo's advice to other people, and his rules for blogging:

If a female blogger wants to be taken seriously, it's not at all difficult:

1. Have at least half a brain and demonstrate that it actually functions by not writing egregiously stupid stuff.

I guess if you're a male blogger that rule doesn't apply. Everything he "writes" (scribbles? blathers? vomits?) is beyond "egregiously stupid." I place his prose somewhere between absurdly deluded and nonsense, heavily weighted to the latter.

Posted by: Onkel Bob | July 30, 2008 11:17 AM

Gee Ed, must be heartbreaking to know that Pox Dei & his flaming "sword" doesn't like you. Was that you hiding in the toilets, weeping and gnashing your teeth?
Pox Dei - why don't you go back to daddy, or someone else, who gives a ragged rectum of a rabies ravaged rodent who you like or dislike - if you can find someone who cares. -DJ

Posted by: DingoJack | July 30, 2008 11:22 AM

Actually, wouldn't homonymously hinting that he believes himself to be the voice of god be the first a clearest sign of pretentiousness?

Posted by: Mr. Upright | July 30, 2008 11:31 AM

Theodore Beale father was also recently sentenced to jail for tax evasion. My favorite part is this quote: 'God wants me to destroy the judge'.

So the apple doesn't fall far from the tree it appears....

Posted by: yoshi | July 30, 2008 11:31 AM

Ha, maybe if mroberts toddled off to Vox Day, we can get SteveP to follow him. SteveP would be right at home at Vox Day's blog.

Someone, maybe Orac, issued my favorite quote about Day/Beale: How can you take anything seriously written by a guy with a merkin on his head? (or words to that effect)

Posted by: Adrienne | July 30, 2008 12:11 PM

Someone, maybe Orac, issued my favorite quote about Day/Beale: How can you take anything seriously written by a guy with a merkin on his head? (or words to that effect)

ruined me

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | July 30, 2008 12:16 PM

I don't know much about the guy. I looked at his site a couple of times and it was disturbing enough to make me never want to return.

But I'm glad to hear your comment about Mensa. I've always found the whole Mensa thing to be strange. Years ago in my first intellectual assessment class, two other students mentioned that someone they knew was in Mensa. I asked why anyone would join and they both looked at me as if I was nuts and said it would look good on your cv. I know I might offend a few people, but I've always thought it would just make you look like an overcompensating ass.

Posted by: Dr X | July 30, 2008 12:30 PM

He's also a big fat liar...

from here:

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2008/06/fun-with-memes.html

Vox: "Rich clearly doesn't know that Big Chilly and I were using genetic algorithms to develop better artificial intelligences more than a decade ago. He babbles about science having "predictive and descriptive ability" while defending evolution, a non-scientific model which has virtually no predictive ability. He also fails to note the significance of the adjective or understand the irony of his description when expressing his opinion about the limits of AI.

Throughout, he demonstrates his inability to function within the parameters of the social niceties. Thus, we conclude that he is likely an atheist."

Me: "Oh please, let me cry, Bullshìt!

You've peaked my interest, Vox. What search space where you trying to traverse? What was the objective function of your optimization? What did you encode genomically, what were your sources of variation and what were your selection criteria? Why didn't you use A*, GBF, Iterative Deeping, simulated annealing, etc?

And as for "inability to function within the parameters of the social niceties.", one of us writes for an online tinfoiled-hatted fundy mag, has a pretentious internet name and grew a Mohawk to hide his receding hairline. Clue: it's not me.

PS: did you use GAs in this, Vox?:

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/game-reviews/war-heaven.php

Posted by: Rich | July 30, 2008 12:30 PM

@random guy - I'll cop to being a Mensa member to offer a bit of a defense. Bragging about one's IQ or Mensa membership seems to be considered an act of major asshattery by most in the organization. Those that do so have been roundly criticized for it in my experience. Of course that doesn't stop people from being dicks about it anyway if they're desperate enough for attention or approval (see Vox Day).

I do think there's some validity to your point about the test taking. I have a great memory and I'm really good at pattern recognition. The test seemed to focus on those things. I'm also good at tests in general. None of these skills necessarily translates to smarts in the real world.

Posted by: peaches | July 30, 2008 12:32 PM

Oh no! With mroberts gone, how ever will completely unrelated threads diverge into discussions about homosexuality?

Posted by: Sadie Morrison | July 30, 2008 12:41 PM

...or discussions about how persecuted Christians are, or how much Obama sucks and his supporters like Kool-Aid....

Posted by: Adrienne | July 30, 2008 12:51 PM

Speaking of dragging the conversation off-topic...where have KOI and Rev. AJB gone? I miss their inputs on threads.

Posted by: Adrienne | July 30, 2008 12:56 PM

LOL, with respect to the Mensa bit-

Posting his intellectual stats allows him to make delusional claims like how it's not that he's a crazed woman-hating sociopath, but rather it's really that his critics are unable to "get" him.

In this post, he explains how difficult it is for the "differently intelligenced" to communicate.

"There's no question that crossing the intelligence chasm can be very hard, but it can be done if there is sufficient patience and respect on both sides. I doubt it has escaped the attention of many readers how often I am accused of being crazy despite the obvious trappings that indicate a high level of social functionality; these accusations mostly stem from there being a gap of three standard deviations between me and many of my critics. They simply can't understand what on Earth I'm talking about, and because they know they are of above-average intelligence and therefore not stupid, they conclude that I must be insane."

I can haz teh smart too? Nope, I'z just a dum womyn.

Posted by: fannie | July 30, 2008 1:08 PM

One of the most interesting people I've ever known was a MENSA member. Though he was also a Hell's Angel, NRA Lifetime Member, and ACLU Guardian of Liberty. I think the distinction is that he never used any of those as a basis of authority. In fact he was more apt to poke fun at himself for it than anything.

Posted by: Abby Normal | July 30, 2008 1:11 PM

wow fannie, that quote is full of win. "I'm socially normal, as you can see by me trying too hard all the time!", "the only reason they think I'm crazy is that I'm so sooooper smart that I'm light years ahead of them and they can't catch up".

The thing that always got me about those with high intelligence (and according to the school psychs who put me in the 'gifted program' I'm one of them...) is how easy it can be to pull one over on them and get them believing things that sound plausible. It's the case of the emporer's new clothes... Vox, if every one of your critics can't understand you it's because you're not talking sense... and you probably shouldn't stage a parade to your greatness any time soon either...

Posted by: kodiak | July 30, 2008 1:24 PM

Vox Day Doesn't Like Me

Congratulations, you just met the first of several criteria for being a decent human being.

Posted by: Shygetz | July 30, 2008 1:57 PM

Adrienne, I'm not sure about Rev. AJB, but KOI made an appearance within the past week at one of the McDonald's boycott threads.

Posted by: Sadie Morrison | July 30, 2008 2:03 PM

Going back to that merkin thing, I looked it up on Wikipedia, and the name is derived from malkin, a lower-class woman. Jesus, that's funny. Two 'nuts with one word.

Posted by: Jonathan | July 30, 2008 2:10 PM

Hey! He quoted my comment from that thread were I referred to him as Vox Dipshit. I'm so proud! He does this in an update where he says:

Myers made his threat to present the photographed evidence "profound disrespect and heinous cracker abuse" on July 8th. That was nearly two weeks ago and there's still no sign of the promised fanfare... so if PZ's not a coward, one can only conclude that those must be some amazingly intimidating crackers.

No update since PZ actually has desecrated the cracker and posted the evidence. Wrong again, Dipshit.

Posted by: Taz | July 30, 2008 2:11 PM

I stayed at a hotel a few years ago where the Mensa folks were meeting. I noticed quite a few of them lined up at a table in the lobby where someone was selling "healing crystals."
Just saying...

Posted by: Doug | July 30, 2008 2:15 PM

Where did this 'socially autistic' jibe come from, anyway?

It came from one of Beale's earlier blog posts.

Beale no doubt fancies himself to be clever, but his ignorance about Asperger's and psychopathy is painful. I'd also recommend he learn a bit about the history of psychology.

But the more I read Beale's posts, the more I'm convinced that this guy is deeply disturbed. Theism has nothing to do with it. It's the internet version of driving by a gruesome car accident.

Instead of throwing around psychology terms he doesn't understand, he needs to seek a psychologist.

Anyway from his attitude towards women and that picture, I'd wager that he gets ready for a hot date by taking the bicycle pump out of the closet.

Posted by: swangeese | July 30, 2008 2:15 PM

Actually, Vox Day/Theodore Beale is married. His wife posts as "Space Bunny" on his blog sometimes. Reminds me of an old saying someone told me once: Those who marry for money earn it. Although thanks to Beale's dad's "indiscretions", maybe he won't be inheriting quite so much after all.

Posted by: Adrienne | July 30, 2008 2:29 PM

Actually, Vox Day/Theodore Beale is married. His wife posts as "Space Bunny" on his blog sometimes.

Beale lets his wife write? Hell, Beale lets his wife read!?! Well, as long as he doesn't let her vote...

Posted by: Shygetz | July 30, 2008 3:27 PM

Be careful he's got a big flaming sword and he's not afraid to use it.

Heh. That picture tells you all you need to know about the guy. It's like a dictionary illustration for "overcompensation".

Posted by: SeanH | July 30, 2008 3:37 PM

I stayed at a hotel a few years ago where the Mensa folks were meeting. I noticed quite a few of them lined up at a table in the lobby where someone was selling "healing crystals."
Just saying...

A prominent local (to me) Creationist (the author, I think, of most of the crap here) boasts that he's the head of the Mensa Creation Science SIG -- which just goes to show that being really smart in certain ways is no insurance against being reeeaaaally stooopid in others (scarey to think there's enough of them to be the "G" in "SIG").

Another data point: pseudo-science popularizer Richard Milton mentions his Mensa status on his book jackets.

All respect to Mensans in general, most of whom I'm sure are very smart and quite reasonable folks, but: if you have to tout your status as a Mensan, it means you've got no other qualifications worth mentioning.

Posted by: Eamon Knight | July 30, 2008 5:28 PM

Vox Day says his intelligence level is 3 standard deviations above "above normal" people? That means he's at least 4 standard deviations above the mean!

John von Neumann and John Nash might have been at the level (if anyone ever has been), but I've yet to notice comparable achievements from Mr. Flaming Sword.

According to Mensa's website, you have to score above the 98th percentile on a standardized intelligence test. From another site I find that corresponds with an IQ of approximately 131. So my gun-totin' friend who drives a cement truck and has an IQ of 140 is Mensa-eligible, too. I'm pretty sure he'd think Vox is a tool, too, and I'm thinking that gun-totin' cement truck driver vs. flaming sword wielder has an outcome obvious even to the pathetically non-above average non-Mensa eligible.

Posted by: James Hanley | July 30, 2008 6:12 PM

LOL. I'm still snickering about the merkin thing. I'm not sure how I made it this long without knowing such a thing existed.

Posted by: Leni | July 30, 2008 6:56 PM

Thats just going on my encounters with its membership though. Maybe I had an unrepresentative sample.

Randomguy, I would have to agree completely. My interaction with the organization was virtually identical to what you described above, led me to decide against joining ... effectively, why hang out with people like these numbnuts when I'm likely to run into them all to often in settings that leave me wanting to throttle them anyway?

Posted by: dogmeatib | July 30, 2008 7:53 PM

"Speaking of dragging the conversation off-topic...where have KOI and Rev. AJB gone? I miss their inputs on threads."

I miss Cuttlefish too.

Posted by: John Monfries | July 30, 2008 8:08 PM

The problem I've found with Mensa...or rather with members of that organization...is that most of the members I've met seem compelled to advertise that fact to everyone they meet, within, oh, a second and a half of introductions.

Posted by: Elaine | July 30, 2008 9:00 PM

"According to Mensa's website, you have to score above the 98th percentile on a standardized intelligence test. From another site I find that corresponds with an IQ of approximately 131."

IQ nerd stuff:

The WAIS-III, the instrument used most frequently by clinicians doing a professional evaluation, has a standard deviation a little above 15. So, 3SD is 145. Percentile is indeed about 98.

With the Stanford-Binet it's about 16. So a Stanford-Binet score of 148 is comparable to 145 on the WAIS-III. Of course, the score is not perfectly reliable so it would be reported as, for example, a full-scale IQ of 145 +/- 4 (or 5 or 6) at 95% confidence. As IQ moves toward the tails of the curve, reliability is reduced. An IQ of 145 is actually an IQ within a range of 8-10 points.

Apparently, MENSA accepts substitutes for IQ tests such as SATs or GREs. These are weakly correlated with IQ, but in looking at the correlations, I can see that someone could probably squeak their way into Mensa with a WAIS equivalent FSIQ of 130 or 2SD above the mean -- roughly the 84th percentile of performance.

Posted by: Dr X | July 30, 2008 9:43 PM

Vox Day's problem seems to be that his Mommy told him he was special, and he believed her.

Posted by: BaldApe | July 30, 2008 9:44 PM

Be careful he's got a big flaming sword and he's not afraid to use it.

Mine's bigger. So much bigger, I have to drive a Prius to compensate for it.

Posted by: Raging Bee` | July 30, 2008 10:03 PM

The last time I tested I had a VIQ of 145 and a performancer IQ of 106. The guy who did the testing suggested I schedule a consult with my doc to see about getting a PET scan to see if I had a brain tumor (he said that kind of difference was off the hook fucked-up). That was 14 years ago. If it was a tumor, I'm dead now.

I've known some very smart Mensans and some idiots.

Posted by: democommie | July 30, 2008 10:05 PM

I saw a short segment in a variety program at one time about a club for men with unusually large procreative organs. As they interviewed some of the men as well as a couple of women who were looking for partners through this club it soon became painfully clear that quite a lot of the members (sic) had joined because that physical feature was pretty much the only attractive aspect they had. Presumably, otherwise pleasant, attractive people do not need to compensate for their social and physical deficiencies by pushing one particular feature in that manner.

To what degree Mensa is a parallel to this I will leave it be.

Posted by: Janne | July 30, 2008 10:55 PM

Apparently, MENSA accepts substitutes for IQ tests such as SATs or GREs.

Undoubtedly, most people with high SAT scores are very intelligent. However, IMO there's something very, very wrong with a standardized test that induces many young people from non-privileged socioeconomic groups to believe that they're intellectually inadequate and inferior, when in fact they are demonstrably highly intelligent by almost any other criterion.

Posted by: Barn Owl | July 30, 2008 11:11 PM

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the obvious yet--Mr. "I'm So Smart" could not manage to spell Ed's surname correctly.

Posted by: Sadie Morrison | July 30, 2008 11:21 PM

Well, Ed mentioned it. I think he did it on purpose, it's ploy that people sometimes use to show disregard or disinterest. It's kind of similar to how catty teenage girls might keep talking about someone for several seconds after they come into the room, then pretend they didn't notice them.

Posted by: chemniste | July 31, 2008 2:45 AM