Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
The Human Rights Campaign has released its latest Corporate Equality Index, which once again demonstrates that corporate America is actually far ahead of government in protecting the equality of gay, lesbian and transgendered employees. The index measures the policies and practices of 583 major corporations and, as has been the case every year, the number of companies scoring a perfect 100 has risen substantially from the year before.
In the last few years the number of companies with perfect scores has gone from 101 to 138 to 138 to 195; this year it's 259. When they began the survey in 2002, only 13 companies made the mark. That's pretty remarkable progress. Naturally, that leaves the professional anti-gay contingent with quite a bunched up set of panties. Peter LaBarbera, founder of Americans for Truth About Homosexuality, says the good Christian folk of this country must stand up to these evil corporations who have "sold its soul to the homosexual lobby":
"What we are surprised at is that more people aren't engaging these corporations, because to get a top ranking at HRC you have to essentially say that you only support the gay side," he points out. "If you do anything that constitutes being even close to supporting the pro-family side -- for example, helping a pro-marriage effort or a campaign to stop gay 'marriage' -- you cannot get a perfect rating according to HRC."LaBarbera says many conservative Christians are weary because they have been losing the fight against homosexual activism. But it is time, he urges, for those individuals to engage within the corporate world. He says if this fight is lost then "our freedom to engage for truth in America" will be lost as well.
And it might surprise people to find out that, for once, I agree with LaBarbera. I think the anti-gay crowd should do what it is trying to do to McDonald's and Ford and boycott every company that scores high on the HRC's index. And to help them out, I've prepared a list of some of the companies they now have to avoid.
You can't fly on American Airlines, Continental or US Airways, both of which scored a perfect 100. You might also want to avoid United, Southwest, Delta, Northwest, and JetBlue; all scored above 80. In fact, Sarah Palin is gonna have a difficult time flying anywhere since Alaska Airlines also got a perfect score. Who can you fly? Well, you could try Nepal Airlines, the faith-based airline that sacrifices goats to appease God. On second thought, that won't work either. Nepal Airlines has two planes, both of them made by Boeing; Boeing got a perfect 100 too. Go Greyhound!
In fact, you might want to start boycotting the military too. Most of the major defense contractors scored very well. Honeywell, Raytheon and Northrop Grumman all scored a perfect 100. Lockheed got an 85. Who would have guessed that our good ol' red-blooded and (presumably) straight American fighting men are using weapons that advance the gay agenda? If they don't ask, we won't tell. Actually, you're gonna have to stop watching religious channels like TBN as well, since they are broadcast on satellites made by gay-loving companies.
Shopping could be a problem too. You can't shop at Abercrombie and Fitch, The Gap, JC Penney's, Macy's, or Nordstroms. Can't wear Levis jeans or Nike shoes. And even that staple of middle American fashion, LL Bean, scored a 79. Ah well, there's always K-Mart. And in a pinch, you can always wear a plain white sheet.
Then again, it's going to be difficult to get to the mall anyway since cars are pretty much out entirely. Ford, General Motors, Chrysler, Toyota, Subaru and Volkswagon all scored a perfect 100. You could try Volvo, but that's a Swedish company and you know how those morally bankrupt Scandinavians like to treat gay people like human beings. It may be horse and buggy time.
Finances are gonna be damn near impossible. Want to find a hetero-normative mortgage? Good luck. Bank of America, Citigroup, Countrywide, JP Morgan Chase, Fannie Mae, Indy Mac, Washington Mutual and Wells Fargo all scored 100. Heck, I bet gay marriage is the real cause of the foreclosure problem.
Need a morally upstanding credit card? Avoid American Express, Mastercard and Visa; all got perfect scores. Can't do Discover either, since they're owned by Morgan Stanley and damn if they didn't get a 100 as well.
Banking in general is gonna be a real problem for the Righteous, and you might as well give up on any thought of investing your money or saving for retirement. Bank of America, Bear Stearns, Capital One Financial, Charles Schwab, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, Wachovia - all get perfect scores on the Sodomy Scale. I guess that leaves the old coffee can under the bed, but you'll have to make sure it isn't Maxwell House or Gevalia; they're both owned by Kraft Foods which, you guessed it, got a perfect score too.
Speaking of which, eating and drinking could be a bit difficult as well. No Coke or Pepsi, they both got 100. Nothing from Kraft or General Mills, which wipes out about half the products in the supermarket. No Budweiser. For crying out loud, even Coors, typically a friend to conservatives, has been corrupted by the forces of buggery and scores a perfect 100. And even that old American standby, Campbell Soups, got a 95.
Ironically, you can safely eat Heinz 57 sauce; despite being associated with a certain gay-loving Massachusetts liberal, they only scored a 46. It doesn't look like you'll have much to put it on though; perhaps it will go well with the manna from the sky you'll be relying on in your quest to take a stand for decency in America.
It's probably a good thing that most of you believe in faith healing too, because getting health insurance without supporting those godless sodomites may prove impossible. AAA, Hartford, Metlife, Prudential, ING and Nationwide are all perfect 100s. Even the obviously misnamed American Family Insurance Group scores a 95. Don't they know that you can't use the word "family" unless you're anti-gay?
Even if you did have health insurance, your doctor couldn't prescribe you any medication made by Eli Lilly, Bristol Myers Squibb, GlaxoSmithKline, Johnson and Johnson, Merck or Pfizer. Don't worry, I'm sure that rash will clear up soon. And if it doesn't, take solace in the fact that you're doing the right thing. Wear it like a badge of honor for your brave and virtuous stand against immorality and equality.
Politics
Comments
Some investment organizations, like the Ave Maria Fund, make a point of refusing to include gay-friendly corporations in their stock portfolios. So what exactly are they going to be able to invest in? Not much!
Posted by: Zeno | September 9, 2008 9:24 AM
Ed, I just have to say that is a beautiful screed. I think I'm posting that one on the door!
Posted by: Scott Reese | September 9, 2008 9:24 AM
Out of curiosity, but how much does the "homosexual lobby" pay for souls? I sold mine to Milhouse for $5 and what to know if I got a good deal.
Posted by: I am so wise | September 9, 2008 9:33 AM
great stuff! although when talking about the defense contractors, you almost certainly missed an opportunity for a "gay-dar" joke of some sort. :)
Posted by: sdg | September 9, 2008 9:34 AM
A routine worthy of Carlin. What LaBarbera and his ilk just don't understand is that more and more of those sympathetic to his cause have found out that friends, neighbors and family members are gay. And these gay people are not, apparently, wrecking marriage and society by their very existence. Some are very people-like!
Ultimately, Americans for Truth About Homosexuality will just have to find someplace other than gays to stick its Peter.
-TTm
Posted by: Ticktockman | September 9, 2008 9:45 AM
That was the going rate when I was buying them in the 80's. Inflation would generally drive the price up. But, as this report shows, souls are significantly more corrupt than they were even a generation ago, which should drive the price back down. So all in all $5 sounds about right.
Posted by: Abby Normal | September 9, 2008 9:49 AM
Heh. Awesome.
Posted by: PattyP | September 9, 2008 9:53 AM
Nice update to the list, Ed.
I'm saving this and the next time I get one of those crappy right wing urban legend laden emails forwarded by my father in law, I'm going to hit reply all, and send this.
Cheers
Posted by: FastLane | September 9, 2008 10:04 AM
Hey, take it easy on Peter. It's tough growing up male with a thin skin, thick skull, and surname: The Barbara. That's almost as pitiful as growing up a mouthy munchkin in Georgia, and having to use either your God-given name of Newton or its nick, Newt. Show a little compassion.
Posted by: a knight | September 9, 2008 10:16 AM
If conservative Christians boycott those companies, their regressive lifestyle would be in keeping with their Bronze Age worldview. It's only fair. Next, we should gently encourage them to boycott companies whose CEOs don't love Jesus. And companies that employ Jews!
Yeah!
Soon enough, they'll be so busy hunting and gathering that they won't have time to spew their odious, anachronistic bullshit religion on the rest of us.
Posted by: Barry | September 9, 2008 10:20 AM
Microsoft and Apple both have 100. And Linux is communist!!!1
The religious right have to quit the internet.
Posted by: Matt Heath | September 9, 2008 10:21 AM
Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant!
(And who is it who says that we should let the market decide?)
Posted by: Umlud | September 9, 2008 10:27 AM
I think it would be easier to point out companies that don't have reasonable programs for same sex partners and anti-discrimination policies.
The only local Minnesotan company I can think of that doesn't have such programs is Ecolabs. For Ecolab employees they offer pet insurance but no domestic partnership insurance. So they put your dog above your partner. I took great joy in turning down a job there.
So at least the wingnuts can buy pest and cleaning products. Good luck finding something to eat locally tho...
Posted by: yoshi | September 9, 2008 10:34 AM
Indeed the internet and computers are right out.
There's probably a Cisco Systems router somewhere between your computer and everything else on the internet, and they got 100%. And that web server could have an Intel processor inside, and they got 100% as well.
Posted by: Nick | September 9, 2008 10:40 AM
This post is full of so much win!
Posted by: Bourgeois_Rage | September 9, 2008 10:42 AM
Barry wrote:
That's a great line. Consider it stolen!
Posted by: Ed Brayton | September 9, 2008 10:59 AM
Could you imagine the look on LaBarbera's face when he boarded the 'Christian Values' bus only to find it full of extremist muslims! i could laugh all the way to the bank with that one.
Posted by: Amar | September 9, 2008 11:01 AM
It's not just the internet they have to quit, they might have to quit using computers all together. The major computer manufacturers all have a 100 percent rating; Dell, HP, IBM, Apple, Sun Microsystems, Xerox. And they may as well say goodbye to using anything with an Intel product in it; another 100 company.
To be true to their word the religious right would have to be even more technologically retarded than the Amish.
Posted by: Mike G | September 9, 2008 11:08 AM
They can't shop at K-Mart, it's part of Sears Holdings Corp. which has scored a perfect 100 four years in a row now. Target is also no good for them as it reached 100 this year. Wal-Mart is maintaining it's 40 score so I guess they'll have to shop there. Maybe Wal-Mart can introduce a new line of products to capitalize on their ranking, the Ann Coulter collection perhaps ;-).
Posted by: Paul Hutch | September 9, 2008 11:26 AM
Actually, la Barbera and his ilk can't even fall back on the Grey Dog, since their customer service can best be described as "Bend over, and leave the driving to us!"
And Amtrak will sell tickets to anyone, so they're out too.
Looks like la Barbera, Palin, McCain and the other right-wingers will have to get off the gravy train and look for the chuck wagon.
Posted by: Steve S | September 9, 2008 11:33 AM
Are you looking at last year's numbers? Lockheed is at 100 this year for the first time. Looks like no submarine launched ballistic missiles, jet fighters, or early warning satellites in Jesus' arsenal.
Posted by: Salad Is Slaughter | September 9, 2008 11:59 AM
So what does it take to be rated in the CEI? Filling out a voluntary survey? I find it interesting that only 255 Fortune 500 companies were rated. Perhaps the others refused, knowing that they wouldn't score highly?
Posted by: paul | September 9, 2008 12:36 PM
So the HRC will deny a company its top rating just because the company happens to support efforts to ban gay marriage? Who knew?
Posted by: noncarborundum | September 9, 2008 12:53 PM
Why are the homophobes not taking a cue from their stupidity and getting the hell out of a United States that is smart enough to tell them they're wrong, even if the government doesn't do anything?
Someone email this to Fred Phelps and see what he says. Hopefully, the fucking asshole will go terrorize some other country.
Posted by: Katharine | September 9, 2008 1:07 PM
To clarify, it's the homophobes that are stupid.
Posted by: Katharine | September 9, 2008 1:10 PM
Ed, I just cannot make my day happy and complete without reading your fantastic blog, and for me as a gay man, this one was just fantastic. As an American expat who has lived in Europe for nearly 20 years now and has watched with horror at what "Christians" are doing to America, I might add that if these knuckle-draggers who claim that every single word in the bible is true and they live absolutely and fully according to every single one of those words, they would just have to go out in the woods and strip nekkid, because the bible says nothing about electricity, and it surely does not say anything about driving a car or going shopping. So I guess the loons really would need to boycott -- gosh -- everything!
Posted by: eeuropean2000 | September 9, 2008 1:35 PM
@Katherine: Emigrating requires convincing some other country that they want to take you.
Posted by: Matt Heath | September 9, 2008 1:48 PM
The reason why companies don't pay attention to the religious right is many fold, but I think one of the main ones is that they want to attract more gay workers. These Christians tend to be small town, not very well educated people, i.e. worthless from an employment perspective for a large international corporation. There are far more intelligent, well educated homosexuals who are an asset to large businesses. Further, gay people don't tend to take things like maternity leave - at least not yet. Whereas those good ol' Christian folk are always popping sprogs out, meaning that companies have to pay loads of leave to them.
Of course, the other is that such international companies mainly do business in developed nations, and, particularly in Europe, religion is in decline, and gay rights on the ascendency, so companies would risk alienating huge numbers of people were they to adopt a 'pro-family' position.
Personally I think that the main reason by companies chasing the perfect 100 score is the former - the power educated gay people have, and the advantage they bring to companies and businesses.
Posted by: Thomas Langham | September 9, 2008 1:52 PM
-helping a pro-marriage effort or a campaign to stop gay 'marriage' -- you cannot get a perfect rating according to HRC-
I'm shocked, shocked I tell you that helping a campaign to stop gay marriage and therefore denying people the same rights as you should mean you don't get a perfect score in an equality rating"...what is the world coming to.
Posted by: Ricahrd Eis | September 9, 2008 2:04 PM
These Christians tend to be small town, not very well educated people, i.e. worthless from an employment perspective for a large international corporation. There are far more intelligent, well educated homosexuals who are an asset to large businesses.
The ignorance from the so-called "enlightened" is absolutely hilarious. Maybe you weren't aware, Mr. Langham, that a majority of the money supporting the gay marriage ban in California is coming from conservative, heavily Christian Orange County. Yeah, lot's of hillbillies in that county. Not only is Orange County well-educated, but it is wealthy at the same time. Your theory that Christians are uneducated small-towners is just stupid. Your theory is not only demonstrative of your own abundant ignorance, but your bigotry against Christians as well.
Posted by: mroberts | September 9, 2008 2:52 PM
...a majority of the money supporting the gay marriage ban in California is coming from conservative, heavily Christian Orange County. Yeah, lot's of hillbillies in that county. Not only is Orange County well-educated, but it is wealthy at the same time.
Every part of the country, even the wealthy parts where good jobs are plentiful and attract educated people, also has its share of hicks and morons. Also, wealth alone doesn't drive out stupidity. So your little factoid doesn't exactly refute Langham's assertions.
Perhaps, mroberts, if "Christians" like yourself didn't traffic so much in bigotry, you'd be getting less of it from others. Do you really think you can spew hatred and falsehoods against people who have done no wrong, and not expect a backlash from the educated public? If you can't take it, don't dish it out.
You should have followed the teachings of your own Savior: "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." But you didn't, so you can't call yourself a "Christian," and you can't pretend you're fighting against "anti-Christian bigotry."
Posted by: Raging Bee | September 9, 2008 3:07 PM
Re Orange Co., Ca.
Harry Truman once said that he only had fears for his life when traveling in Orange Co. When they shook up the country, that's where all the loose nuts ended up.
As an example, there used to be a congressman from Orange Co. named James Utt who once put out a newsletter claiming that 250,000 Red Chinese troops were massing in Baja, Ca. to invade the US. Sounds like a good match for Mr. mroberts.
Posted by: SLC | September 9, 2008 4:27 PM
mroberts, if I thought Thomas Langham was trying to say "that Christians are uneducated small-towners," I'd be inclined to agree with you. But, given that he's only mentioned "These Christians," referring to those who strongly oppose same-sex benefits and/or marriage, it seems your are railing against a specter of your own creation.
If you would like to argue that the subset of Christians against equal rights for homosexuals are not most strongly concentrated in rural areas nor predominately on the lower end of the scholastic achievement spectrum, you'd at least be addressing his point. The studies I've seen would argue against that. But I'd be open to seeing new evidence.
Posted by: Abby Normal | September 9, 2008 5:27 PM
Evidence....is not mroberts' strong point.
Posted by: gwangung | September 9, 2008 5:30 PM
Actually the very conservative Orange County register editorialized in favor of CA's Supreme Court decision to legalize gay marriage. So no, not all conservatives in Orange County are anti-gay bigots. But we do have our share of wealthy, self-righteous, bible-thumping morons. My favorite manifestation of this is the NOTW (Not Of This World) car decal. This decal, presumably meant to inform everyone that the driver is a Christian unconcerned with the material trappings of this world, can be seen on brand new $50,000 SUVs throughout the county.
Posted by: peaches | September 9, 2008 5:41 PM
"Peter LaBarbera, founder of Americans for Truth About Homosexuality, says the good Christian folk of this country must stand up to these evil corporations who have 'sold its soul to the homosexual lobby'"
Hold on a second. Corporations listen to lobbyists now? Why? To get advertising funds?
Posted by: Captain Mike | September 9, 2008 5:44 PM
Also, when did corporate persons get souls? Can they go to heaven?
Posted by: Captain Mike | September 9, 2008 5:45 PM
Actually the very conservative Orange County register editorialized in favor of CA's Supreme Court decision to legalize gay marriage.
The Register is hardly conservative.
So no, not all conservatives in Orange County are anti-gay bigots. But we do have our share of wealthy, self-righteous, bible-thumping morons. My favorite manifestation of this is the NOTW (Not Of This World) car decal. This decal, presumably meant to inform everyone that the driver is a Christian unconcerned wth the material trappings of this world, can be seen on brand new $50,000 SUVs throughout the county.
peaches, you throw out all those insults and have the nerve to call Christians the bigots? Liberals like you are always quick to call bigotry and hatred on others, but ALWAYS the last to see it in themselves.
Posted by: mroberts | September 9, 2008 5:50 PM
Well, given that peaches ISN'T insulting Christians, I think it's appropriate.
Really, now, this Pharisee-like behavior is unbecoming of someone who professes to be Christian. (Unless you ARE claiming to be a self-righteous moron.....)
Posted by: gwangung | September 9, 2008 5:53 PM
Perhaps, mroberts, if "Christians" like yourself didn't traffic so much in bigotry, you'd be getting less of it from others. Do you really think you can spew hatred and falsehoods against people who have done no wrong, and not expect a backlash from the educated public? If you can't take it, don't dish it out
Bee, that statement is hilarious. I am assuming that you include yourself in the "educated public"? Considering the mindlessness and irrationality - not to mention ignorance - I see from you, I think you need to demand a refund from whomever you received your education. You're the only person I have argued with that will go on and on, post after post, on a subject you obviously know nothing about.
Posted by: mroberts | September 9, 2008 5:54 PM
mroberts, if I thought Thomas Langham was trying to say "that Christians are uneducated small-towners," I'd be inclined to agree with you. But, given that he's only mentioned "These Christians," referring to those who strongly oppose same-sex benefits and/or marriage, it seems your are railing against a specter of your own creation.
A "specter" of my own creation? What are you talking about? Let's assume you are right, that Langham was singling out only those Christians that oppose gay marriage. Considering that Orange County is heavily evangelical, and will vote strongly against gay marriage, I am absolutely appropriate in pointing out that Langhams "hypothesis" that gay marriage opponents are uneducated country hicks is spot on.
Posted by: mroberts | September 9, 2008 6:02 PM
Sorry, my editing skills are not the best sometimes :). Meant to say the following:
A "specter" of my own creation? What are you talking about? Let's assume you are right, that Langham was singling out only those Christians that oppose gay marriage. Considering that Orange County is heavily evangelical, and will vote strongly against gay marriage, I am absolutely appropriate in pointing out that Langhams "hypothesis" that gay marriage opponents are uneducated country hicks is absolutely false.
Can't wait for SLC, Bee, and gwangung to jump all over my error.
Posted by: mroberts | September 9, 2008 6:05 PM
Orange County? Sounds about right. If you watched "The Real Housewives of Orange County", you saw quite a few rich, incredibly stupid citizens of that patch of California who unthinkingly vote republican even though they admit having no idea what that means or what a republican even IS.
And the nice pretty lady who is also a creationist, who dumped her extremely nice, caring boyfriend because he believed in evolution and wasn't a raging bigot.
Good folks down there.
Posted by: Rick R | September 9, 2008 6:09 PM
Well, given that peaches ISN'T insulting Christians, I think it's appropriate. Really, now, this Pharisee-like behavior is unbecoming of someone who professes to be Christian. (Unless you ARE claiming to be a self-righteous moron.....)
Really gwangung? Calling Christians Bible-thumping morons is not an insult? That is what she said, is it not?
Like I've said many times before, there is FAR more hatred coming from people like you than going the other way. Some of the posts directed at me have had some of the most seething hatred in them yet those posters are always the ones to call me the hater. I guess hatred and blindness often go hand in hand.
Posted by: mroberts | September 9, 2008 6:10 PM
Orange County? Sounds about right. If you watched "The Real Housewives of Orange County", you saw quite a few rich, incredibly stupid citizens of that patch of California who unthinkingly vote republican even though they admit having no idea what that means or what a republican even IS.
LOL! Your view of Orange County is derived from "Real Housewives" and you say that Orange County citizens are the stupid ones? LOL.
Posted by: mroberts | September 9, 2008 6:13 PM
Not so much, mroberts. I have family in the OC. Real Housewives gets it right.
Posted by: Rick R | September 9, 2008 6:14 PM
Not so much, mroberts. I have family in the OC. Real Housewives gets it right.
LOL, you have no clue what you are talking about. I have family in Seattle, so does that make me an expert on the people of Seattle?
Posted by: mroberts | September 9, 2008 6:18 PM
It would if you've spent time in the area. As I have in Orange County.
Try again.
Posted by: Rick R | September 9, 2008 6:20 PM
It would if you've spent time in the area. As I have in Orange County. Try again.
What, for a Disneyland vacation every year? I've lived in Orange County for most of my life. Unless you have actually lived in OC for any extended period of time, I maintain that you have no clue what you are talking about.
Posted by: mroberts | September 9, 2008 6:22 PM
I see my comments have caused some controversy; it is my fault for not being clear. I do not, by any means, think or for a moment entertain the notion that all Christians are poorly educated - Alastair McGrath and Francis Collins come instantly to mind to refute such a position, as indeed do St Aquinas and St Augustine. I was referring, in my post, to the kind of Christian that listens to James Dobson, or is part of Focus on Family etc. In short, the kind of people who would stand outside McDonalds with signs protesting against McD's support of the 'gay agenda' - the kind of small-town Christian is not what interests large companies.
Posted by: Thomas Langham | September 9, 2008 6:33 PM
It's quite clear to all that, facts notwithstanding, mroberts believes whatever he wants.
Which perfectly describes the average OC resident. Thanks for making my point for me, mroberts.
Posted by: Rick R | September 9, 2008 6:34 PM
Roberts, I'm puzzled by your cries of outrage. Whom did peaches insult? Nothing in his post implies his remarks are directed towards OC Christians in general. In fact, the only groups he identifies in the post are "conservatives" (whom he remarks are not all bigots), "wealthy, self-righteous, bible-thumping morons" (surely you concede that these exist and are not synonymous with Christians), and people who display "Not of This World" bumper stickers on luxury SUVs (which I hope you'll agree is fair game for ridicule and not synonymous with Christians).
Posted by: DaveL | September 9, 2008 6:36 PM
n fact, the only groups he identifies in the post are "conservatives" (whom he remarks are not all bigots), "wealthy, self-righteous, bible-thumping morons" (surely you concede that these exist and are not synonymous with Christians), and people who display "Not of This World" bumper stickers on luxury SUVs (which I hope you'll agree is fair game for ridicule and not synonymous with Christians).
"Bible-thumpers" are not synonymous with Christians? And people that have NOTW stickers are not Christians? How can you possibly know that, for one thing? Secondly, what are they, if they are not Christians?
Posted by: mroberts | September 9, 2008 6:38 PM
"The ignorance from the so-called "enlightened" is absolutely hilarious. Maybe you weren't aware, Mr. Langham, that a majority of the money supporting the gay marriage ban in California is coming from conservative, heavily Christian Orange County. Yeah, lot's of hillbillies in that county. Not only is Orange County well-educated, but it is wealthy at the same time. Your theory that Christians are uneducated small-towners is just stupid. Your theory is not only demonstrative of your own abundant ignorance, but your bigotry against Christians as well"
I do indeed confess ignorance, as I am writing from the land of England, therefore cannot profess in-depth knowledge of the socio-political demographic who are objecting to the gay marriage ban in California. Also, I wasn't referring to the ban in particular, but generally the religious rights 'home base'. Aren't 'small town values' what makes Palin so attractive to the conservatives?
Posted by: Thomas Langham | September 9, 2008 6:40 PM
No, they are a subset of Christians. "Wealthy, self-righteous, bible-thumping morons" is a subset of "bible thumpers".
They are a subset of Christians. People who display NOTW stickers on luxury SUVs are a subset of NOTW sticker owners.
Do I need to draw you a Venn diagram or something?
Posted by: DaveL | September 9, 2008 6:42 PM
I do indeed confess ignorance, as I am writing from the land of England, therefore cannot profess in-depth knowledge of the socio-political demographic who are objecting to the gay marriage ban in California.
Fair enough, I wouldn't expect you to. I was only challenging your characterization that those opposed to gay marriage are only uneducated hillbillies. This is an oft repeated characterization by lefties, who always like to say their opposition is uneducated and stupid. A significant amount of opposition to gay marriage exists in wealthy, highly-educated and conservative areas of CA like Orange County and San Diego.
Posted by: mroberts | September 9, 2008 6:46 PM
They are a subset of Christians. People who display NOTW stickers on luxury SUVs are a subset of NOTW sticker owners.
Do I need to draw you a Venn diagram or something?
No, maybe pick a different word next time. "Synoymous" > "subset".
Posted by: mroberts | September 9, 2008 6:48 PM
Sorry, the post didn't come out right, meant to say "synonymous" is not equal to "subset".
Posted by: mroberts | September 9, 2008 6:50 PM
I see this conversation is moving at a lively clip.
I used "specter of your own creation" because "strawman" is overused and I liked the imagery of a substanceless creature, whose provokes string emotion, to represent your argument. He said one thing, you mischaracterized and generalized it to a point where you could easily refute it. But you didn't address the actual point he was making.
If I said Americans showed a tendency toward obesity, countering by saying not all humans are fat and I'm a fool for having made such a biased assertion, doesn't mean much. Pointing to the fact Coloradans have a fairly low level of obesity also fails to address the point.
Likewise, Thomas Langham said anti-homosexual Christians show a tendency to be from small towns and to be not well educated. Countering by saying he's attempting to denigrate all Christians does not address his point and using a single metropolitan county to support your argument does refute his claim that the tendency exists.
Posted by: Abby Normal | September 9, 2008 6:52 PM
I pick my words deliberately because they convey my meaning with accuracy. Your whining about anti-Christian bigotry falls flat precisely because criticism of some individuals who happen to be Christian is not equivalent to criticism of Christians in general. Being a member of some identifiable group doesn't mean you can't be criticized for being hypocritical, obnoxious or yes, bigoted.
Posted by: DaveL | September 9, 2008 6:53 PM
Exactly my point. The equivalencies you proposed were false precisely because they identified subsets of Christians, and thus were not synonymous with "Christians".
Posted by: DaveL | September 9, 2008 6:56 PM
I've lived in Orange County for most of my life.
Ah. Why didn't you just come out and admit that this is the only true reason you're all over this issue? Could've saved us all a lot of time (and inane blather).
Question: is it just mindless home-county pride or do you feel offended by extension?
Posted by: StuV | September 9, 2008 6:59 PM
"Fair enough, I wouldn't expect you to. I was only challenging your characterization that those opposed to gay marriage are only uneducated hillbillies. This is an oft repeated characterization by lefties, who always like to say their opposition is uneducated and stupid. A significant amount of opposition to gay marriage exists in wealthy, highly-educated and conservative areas of CA like Orange County and San Diego."
Was it not Ann Coulter who wrote the book 'if democrats had any brains, they would vote Republican'? Also, was it not the republicans in Bush's re-election bid in 2004, who characterise democrats as egg-heads, in order to alienate the electorate from them? I do not disagree with you when you say that not all anti-gay marriage people are hicks and hillbillies; indeed, such names as John Finnis come to mind. However, I was referring to the main base of support for this position, as characterised by 'small town values'.
Also, do you not yourself characterise me as a 'leftie', based only upon the merest comments? Have you knowledge of my opinion of state/individual relations, crime and punishment, fiscal relations? Would that you know these, then you could judge my political leanings. As it is, you hear my social opinions, and judge me 'leftie', when surely 'liberal' would be a more appropriate label, although even this title connotates a particular approach to more then mere social values, does it not? Of course, we may be using different definitions of said terms, in which case cross wires are inevitable. I do not call myself politically liberal, but socially so. Please elaborate your position
Posted by: Thomas Langham | September 9, 2008 7:02 PM
In support of my hypothesis regarding educated people being more likely to be supportive of gay marriage, I may refer you to conservapedia's articles on 'professor values'. Also, you would not deny that liberal ideology is widespread in universities and colleges? Therefore, would it not stand to reason that most people who had been through said institutions would have those values?
Posted by: Thomas Langham | September 9, 2008 7:07 PM
Re mroberts
Mr. mroberts admits to living most of his life in Orange Co., Ca. What a surprise. The county of the aforementioned late and unlamented Congressman James Utt; the county of the two Congressman who were members of the John Birch Society; the county of former Congressman Bomber Bob Dornan, who now holds the distinction of losing a Congressional seat in two different districts (to Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez in Orange County and and former Congressman Mel Levine in Santa Monica.
By the way, as a native of Los Angeles and whose parents lived for some 20+ years in Laguna Hills, I have some familiarity with the area, having ridden my Colnago Superissimo all the way from Long Beach to San Onefre and Newport Beach to Yorba Linda to La Habra. I think that pretty much covers it.
Posted by: SLC | September 9, 2008 8:28 PM
Bee, that statement is hilarious. I am assuming that you include yourself in the "educated public"?
Given that you've ended up on the wrong side of just about every argument you've got in to with me, and given that I -- and many others here -- have shown far better command of facts and reason than you, I'd have to answer "yes."
Like I've said many times before, there is FAR more hatred coming from people like you than going the other way.
And like we've said many times before, liberals and gay activists are not threatening "Christians" like yourself with violence, preventing you from adopting or marrying, making up bogus statistics to demonize you, or killing you. So no, our hatred is NOT greater than yours. So cut the crybaby victimhood and grow up already.
Posted by: Raging Bee | September 9, 2008 10:42 PM
I pick my words deliberately because they convey my meaning with accuracy. Your whining about anti-Christian bigotry falls flat precisely because criticism of some individuals who happen to be Christian is not equivalent to criticism of Christians in general.
And criticism of bigots, false witnesses, gay-bashers, hatemongers and sowers of discord, who don't even TRY to follow the actual teachings of Jesus, has NOTHING AT ALL to do with Christians in general.
Posted by: Raging Bee | September 9, 2008 10:47 PM
Orange County is actually pretty gay-friendly, and my town of Laguna Beach is famously so. Being gay is no impediment to election to the City Council, even.
A couple of weeks ago a neighbor stopped by canvassing in favor of Proposition 8 (which would ban gay marriage). I did a double-take when I realized she was in favor of it (as do people to whom I relate the incident). "No on 8" signs are starting to appear.
Posted by: bad Jim | September 9, 2008 11:57 PM
I have never been to Orange County, California. But I grew up in DuPage County, Illinois. So I can say: yes, there are hillbillies with master's degrees.
Posted by: Blue Nine | September 10, 2008 2:55 AM
Loved the article! While many corporations are gay friendly, the Federal government is openly homophobic! For example, the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act specifically prohibits Federal employees from extending health care benefits to gay partners; it also specifically prohibits gays from sponsoring their foreign partners for a green card. Gays cannot file joint tax returns; gays are ineligible for Social Security Survivor Benefits. These laws MUST be changed so that EVERYONE has equal civil rights!
I lived in Laguna Hills for 20 years before moving to Barcelona, Spain two years ago so I could be with my partner of 7 years!
Proposition 8 that will be on the CA ballot in November would permanently ban gay marriage in California. Evangelicals in Orange County are strongly campaigning for support of the proposition; I can only hope their efforts will fail!
Although it will not affect me personally, it is critically important that Proposition 8 be defeated; if Federal laws that openly persecute gays are to be changed, California must join with Massachusetts in overturning laws that discriminate against gays and assure EVERYONE in America has equal civil rights.
Posted by: Aaron | September 10, 2008 3:41 AM
I nominate this for post of the year, Ed.
Posted by: Jacob | September 10, 2008 3:57 AM
Hands up all who have a connection to Laguna?
Mrroberts stated*
"bible thumpers" and "Christian" are not synonymous in that the two expressions are not the same [gk syn= onon with the (same) name] nor are they interchangeable. Would you like to be referred to as a "bible-thumper"? It has a pejorative meaning closer to "ignorant, right-wing, hypocritical bigot" not, I'm sure, how you see yourself.
If your point is (as your first question implies) that they are "synonymous" then their very actions are proof of their intent, if they are not, then there could be doubt. If there is doubt as to their intent then the answer to your last question, in part, could be: someone who has carjacked/stolen/borrowed/hired the car of just such as knuckle dragging faux christian (the type who give real Christians a bad name) -DJ
*Say hi to your wife from me.☺
Posted by: DingoJack | September 10, 2008 5:00 AM
Actually, Volvo Cars was sold by the Volvo Group to Ford about ten years ago. So that's out in any case.
Posted by: MartinM | September 10, 2008 6:26 AM
Don't anybody tell the good folks at Rapture Ready about this; they'd have a collective infarct.
Then again...
Posted by: Reynold | September 10, 2008 7:01 AM
Maybe you weren't aware, Mr. Langham, that a majority of the money supporting the gay marriage ban in California is coming from conservative, heavily Christian Orange County.
That's not true at all - either you're lying or you don't know what "majority" means (it means "more than half"). Orange County contributes more than any other California county (but much less than non-Californians), but it's only about 15% of the total. A very large part of that is contributions by one individual billionaire.
Note that many of those contributions are being wasted. It's recently been reported that the California Family Council is spending about 70% of its proceeds on employee salaries (particularly for the CEO) and only 18% on actual programs. Report here.
Posted by: Alex | September 10, 2008 8:16 AM
so, mroberts, let me get to what, i think, is the important point. those who are uneducated and think that homosexuality is wrong at least have an excuse, of sorts. the question is, what excuse do all of the well-educated and well-heeled evangelicals of orange county have?
Posted by: sdg | September 10, 2008 9:33 AM
I came across this at work and I just have to say it put a smile on my face...
Posted by: RiddleFlyer | September 10, 2008 2:40 PM
mroberts:
There are Christians who read their Bible rather than using it as a percussion instrument. Perhaps you're not one?
Posted by: llewelly | September 10, 2008 3:13 PM
Ed,
If you're into stealing lines, here's a great one from Ambrose Bierce's The Unabridged Devil's Dictionary:
Christian n. One who believes the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. One who follows the teachings of Christ insofar as they are not inconsistent with a life of sin.
Posted by: Paul Lundgren | September 10, 2008 11:08 PM
While I won't underestimate the effects of staying up for 36 hours straight, I'll have to second Jacob's nomination of this for post of the year. It had me laughing out loud at nearly every punchline, and I've already bookmarked it for future use. Having followed your blog for a long time now, I'm fairly certain that you won't mind me blatantly stealing it to post elsewhere, but I'll obviously be crediting and linking to you.
It seems clear that your skills in comedy are still top-notch, and I applaud you, sir!
Posted by: Kaerion | September 11, 2008 8:15 AM
"And in a pinch, you can always wear a plain white sheet."
Beautiful, as is the entire post.
Posted by: Buffy | September 14, 2008 7:41 PM