Why They Don't Want Palin Talking : Dispatches from the Creation Wars

ScienceBlogs Book Club: Inside the Outbreaks

Profile

Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of Michigan Citizens for Science and co-founder of The Panda's Thumb. He has written for such publications as The Bard, Skeptic and Reports of the National Center for Science Education, spoken in front of many organizations and conferences, and appeared on nationally syndicated radio shows and on C-SPAN. Ed is also a Fellow with the Center for Independent Media and the host of Declaring Independence, a one hour weekly political talk show on WPRR in Grand Rapids, Michigan.(static)

Search

Other Information

Ed Brayton also blogs at Positive Liberty and The Panda's Thumb

Ed Brayton is a participant in the Center for Independent Media New Journalism Program. However, all of the statements, opinions, policies, and views expressed on this site are solely Ed Brayton's. This web site is not a production of the Center, and the Center does not support or endorse any of the contents on this site.

Ed's Audio and Video

Declaring Independence podcast feed

YearlyKos 2007

Video of speech on Dover and the Future of the Anti-Evolution Movement

Audio of Greg Raymer Interview

E-mail Policy

Any and all emails that I receive may be reprinted, in part or in full, on this blog with attribution. If this is not acceptable to you, do not send me e-mail - especially if you're going to end up being embarrassed when it's printed publicly for all to see.

My Ecosystem Details

« The Mind Boggles | Main | Creationists Left Out of Vatican Evolution Conference »

Why They Don't Want Palin Talking

Posted on: September 26, 2008 9:30 AM, by Ed Brayton

Andrew Sullivan is right, this is almost painful to watch. Watching Palin babble trying to answer questions that any reasonably well informed person could answer is like watching someone who really can't sing but is totally oblivious to that fact get up at a karaoke bar and embarrass themselves. You almost feel embarrassed for them. Video below the fold:

Comments

I don't know about the karaoke analogy Ed. When you do that, you're expected to embarrass yourself. And get drunk.

Posted by: Flying Fox | September 26, 2008 9:35 AM

Ugh. Stupid + an awful speaking voice.

I feel like I'm being nagged at, by an idiot.

Posted by: Jason Failes | September 26, 2008 9:38 AM

The Palin candidacy is an excellent ongoing case study on how far the irrational justification to support a candidate based on identity and narrative politics can go. Will even this evidence of not just a complete lack of knowledge, but sheer stupidity pull social conservatives back from the brink of delusion?

We now have plenty of evidence to know she's never kept up at the most shallow level of discourse on the most pressing national matters of our time, her answer on the $700 billion bail-out is not an outlier to her capabilities, it is representative of her knowledge and intelligence.

If even a guy like David Heddle who appears to have excellent educational credentials will continue to support McCain even though McCain's political ambitions gravely risks our national interest with Palin as VP; what chance do we as a country have if this voting block continues to dominate the GOP and the GOP enjoys at least cloture power in the Senate?

Sullivan deserves a Pulitzer for his work in brokering the raw data on Palin out to the public. Unfortunately his tendency towards stridency harms his cause even when the facts are clearly in his favor. He made the same mistake on the Clintons.

Here is a superior argument than the President and Paulson's: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122238704668077137.html

Posted by: Michael Heath | September 26, 2008 9:48 AM

No wonder she's been compared to last year's Miss South Carolina.

Posted by: countlurkula | September 26, 2008 9:51 AM

I meant, Miss Teen S.C., sorry.

Posted by: countlurkula | September 26, 2008 9:53 AM

Will even this evidence of not just a complete lack of knowledge, but sheer stupidity pull social conservatives back from the brink of delusion?

Short answer...no.

In fact, it might be seen as a plus. Maybe she'll be seen to the conservative *ahem* elite as some sort of an Eliza Doolittle for some sharp behinds the scenes guru type (e.g. Karl Rove) to mould. And besides, she's still a social conservative, so isn't that the important thing, and not how coherantly she can answer questions?

Posted by: Dave S. | September 26, 2008 9:55 AM

Ed, what do you mean "almost" painful to watch? Ugh.

Posted by: Caliban | September 26, 2008 9:57 AM

Dave S. - Sullivan and others have already reported based on leaks out of the McCain camp that they have the neocons and the group that supports Israel at all costs indoctrinating Palin. Given she's a complete blank, she has no defenses to grade the quality of their premises and arguments; she's also shown a complete lack of critical thinking skills so even if she had some basic understanding of national affairs, she appears incapable of creating rational positions on her own.

Palin is a perfect representative example of what social conservative churches do to the mind. When you take a person from childhood and redundantly reaffirm faith and its supporting dogma while depriving them access to history and scientific and scholarly processes to understand reality; you end up with someone like Palin.

One should remember that Bush 43 was not raised in such an environment, his flaws come more from intellectual laziness and having the world handed to him to a point he was never had the incentive to develop a personal process to research and test his positions.

Palin's evangelical fervor mixed with a mutated worldview that in no way represents reality presents us with a far scarier candidate than either Bush 43 or even Qualye, who at least had the benefit of understanding the current events of his time and the best arguments against his positions - Palin knows none of this.

Posted by: Michael Heath | September 26, 2008 10:17 AM

That wa Palinful to watch.

Posted by: Herod the Freemason | September 26, 2008 10:26 AM

Michael Heath,

Thanks for the link to that excellent article. It's great to see someone offer a thoughtful alternative plan.

Posted by: peaches | September 26, 2008 10:27 AM

Re Michael Heath

Prof. Heddle does indeed have excellent educational credentials. He has a PhD in nuclear physics and is currently on the faculty of a branch of the Virginia State University system. Unfortunately, it is possible to point out others with equally good, or even better, credentials who have even worse blind spots. I would proffer one Dr. Kurt Wise, BS in geology from Un. of Chicago, PhD in paleontology from Harvard who, despite his educational credentials, is a young earth creationist.

Actually, I have a suspicion that Prof. Heddles' views have more to do with his disdain for vice-presidential nominee Joe Biden then for anything positive about Governor Palin who, after all, like him is a born again Christian.

Posted by: SLC | September 26, 2008 10:35 AM

She's really stupid. It's just amazing.

I see this woman talk, and it just amazes me that she might be working in the White House.

Posted by: JStein | September 26, 2008 10:45 AM

The best answer she gave that was televised was the "I'll try to find you some, and I'll bring them to you."

It was honest, grammatically pallettable and acknowledged that she understood the question that was being asked.

Normally I would classify "I don't know" as a bad answer, but compared to the rest of the debacle it was refreshing.

Posted by: Odie | September 26, 2008 10:59 AM

McSam/Flailin' '08!

Posted by: slpage | September 26, 2008 11:21 AM

If even a guy like David Heddle who appears to have excellent educational credentials will continue to support McCain even though McCain's political ambitions gravely risks our national interest with Palin as VP

Oh, it's worse than that. In his own words, his support for McCain was sealed only because he picked Palin as his VP nominee.

Posted by: tacitus | September 26, 2008 11:47 AM

Does it matter? Bush has made it 8 years with his bumbling ass.

Posted by: Andrea | September 26, 2008 12:25 PM

Does it matter? Bush has made it 8 years with his bumbling ass.

Do you think we could make it through 8 more years of that?

Posted by: Herod the Freemason | September 26, 2008 12:31 PM

I actually found that I couldn't hear her after a few minutes. I could see her lips moving, but other than a Charlie Brown-esque Wah Wah Wah noise, I couldn't discern any verbal continuity. It seemed like my brain went into a defensive coma, it played dead, rolled up into a hedgehog like ball to avoid her speaking.

Is this possibly what the Republicans have in mind?

"I'm now going to have VP Palin explain why we have to invade Iran..."

"VP Palin will explain our energy policy..."

"VP Palin will now discuss our economic plan and tax cut stimulus package..."

Posted by: dogmeatib | September 26, 2008 1:00 PM

She's more like a kid in high school trying to give a speach in front of the class. She sounds just like the kids who have stage fright and didn't research their topic.
Want to know when to recognize when someone doesn't know what the hell they're talking about? They never know when to shut up. They babble on and on as if the correct answers will miraculously come out of their mouth. Palin and Bush have this same affliction.

Posted by: Deepsix | September 26, 2008 1:08 PM

Trouble is, she embarrasses all those around her, but not herself.

Posted by: mark | September 26, 2008 1:12 PM

In fact, it might be seen as a plus. Maybe she'll be seen to the conservative *ahem* elite as some sort of an Eliza Doolittle for some sharp behinds the scenes guru type (e.g. Karl Rove) to mould.

"The reign in Spain McCain will never meet again."

Posted by: AtheistAcolyte | September 26, 2008 1:14 PM

Herod the Freemason asked:

Do you think we could make it through 8 more years of that?

I don't think the America I knew survived the last 8 years.

Posted by: Norman Doering | September 26, 2008 1:28 PM

Well look, the only time that I clearly remember Bushy babbling incoherently was when he couldn't explain what tribal sovereignty means. I'm guessing there were more, but it wasn't this bad.

Although that one was pretty bad. How the fuck does one get through 4 years of college as a freaking *history* major without being able to explain that? I don't care how drunk and high he was, that should be impossible.

In both cases though, they remind me of people who don't know wtf is going on in class trying to BS in front of the prof. Thankfully as a grad student, most of the students I have to teach don't feel a need to do that in front of me, they just say they don't know.

Posted by: Coriolis | September 26, 2008 1:29 PM

Well, I would say you guys have nothing to worry about. Palin's support is eroding, and the Obama/Biden ticket is surging in all the tracking polls. Barring some misstep of Gerry Fordian proportions in the debates, it's "game over man."

As always, being a Calvinist makes facing defeat in an election somewhat painless. (See WCF V I-III)

Posted by: heddle | September 26, 2008 1:47 PM

I don't think the America I knew survived the last 8 years.

8 years nothin'. Remember, Bill Clinton got a bj. How could anything possibly be worse than that? Try to keep things in perspective.

Posted by: pough | September 26, 2008 2:06 PM

Sarah Palin makes Dan Quayle look like a rocket scientist.

Posted by: DobyGS | September 26, 2008 2:45 PM

SHE KNOWS NOT AND KNOWS NOT THAT SHE KNOWS NOT! AVOID HER!

Posted by: Mary Barnes | September 26, 2008 2:45 PM

This clip could be an audition tape for The Office.

Posted by: Dr X | September 26, 2008 2:53 PM

Well, I would say you guys have nothing to worry about. Palin's support is eroding, and the Obama/Biden ticket is surging in all the tracking polls. Barring some misstep of Gerry Fordian proportions in the debates, it's "game over man."

Doubtful.. Greg Palast, who I respect, has said that Karl Rove has already stolen this election - and he has the e-mails to prove it:

http://www.truthout.org/video/greg-palast-rove-has-already-fixed-2008-election

Posted by: Gingerbaker | September 26, 2008 3:25 PM

She actually made Katie Couric look smart.

Posted by: tguy | September 26, 2008 3:36 PM

Ginger, while I fully accept that Republicans have proved the capacity to get up to all kinds of shenanigans when it comes to suppressing the votes of minorities, I think Palast tends to go too far with his conspiracy theories.

Of course, the best way to defeat any attempts at stealing the election is to get out the vote. Even the most brazen attempts at suppressing votes won't work if the majority is large enough.

Posted by: tacitus | September 26, 2008 3:48 PM

It's a really sad commentary on U.S. politics that this person is a serious candidate for the vice-presidency, and that this election may well be decided by the nation's level of homophobia and fetus fetishism.

Posted by: Martian Buddy | September 26, 2008 3:49 PM

Which Palast actually advocates, himself, so that's something.

Posted by: Josh | September 26, 2008 3:52 PM

Wow, is Heddle starting to shake off the effects of the kool-aid? That's a hopeful sign.

Posted by: Raging Bee | September 26, 2008 4:10 PM

Is Martian Buddy a reference to what I think it is? Imps and guns and such? If so, awesome.

Posted by: Josh | September 26, 2008 4:23 PM

As always, being a Calvinist makes facing defeat in an election somewhat painless. (See WCF V I-III)

But doesn't it take away from the joy of winning, as well? In my opinion, it's always nice when God has the wisdom to agree with me.

Posted by: Shygetz | September 26, 2008 4:44 PM

There will be no Biden-Palin debate - with one excuse or another, McCain will find a way to prevent the debate from happening.

Posted by: allison | September 26, 2008 5:00 PM

There will be no Biden-Palin debate - with one excuse or another, McCain will find a way to prevent the debate from happening.

Okay, we have a prediction, ladies and gentlemen. Who's in?

Posted by: Josh | September 26, 2008 5:07 PM

tacitus said:

"I think Palast tends to go too far with his conspiracy theories."

The problem is the SOB packs the goods. He has 500 e-mails captured from Karl Rove on this one, and 70 of them are quite damning - including Excel spreadsheets of various caging lists.

He gets materiel like this often - he has great contacts, and actually looks hard for stuff, instead of just giving up after a half-hearted effort like the rest of the media.

He really has a very impressive track record, despite being a bit full of himself.

Posted by: Gingerbaker | September 26, 2008 5:11 PM

Re Heddle

Prof. Heddle shouldn't give up hope just yet. Past experience shows that it is not wise to bet against the ability of the Democrats to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory or the Rethuglican smear machine to find a way to win.

Posted by: SLC | September 26, 2008 5:34 PM

When Couric asked her about the conflict of interest of one of McCain's lobbyist advisers, and then tried to press her for a real answer, she paused and repeated the same answer almost verbatim. It reminded me of an old Science fiction show where the bad guys were trying to infiltrate using robots, but the robot screwed up and answered the same question in exactly the same way even if you asked it several times in a row.

Clearly, when she appears to be at least able to string words together in a grammatical way and address the question, she is reciting memorized talking points.

Posted by: BaldApe | September 26, 2008 5:58 PM

If even a guy like David Heddle who appears to have excellent educational credentials will continue to support McCain even though McCain's political ambitions gravely risks our national interest with Palin as VP; what chance do we as a country have if this voting block continues to dominate the GOP and the GOP enjoys at least cloture power in the Senate?

Are you sure about that "if"? Because I'm not. As of the latest polls, Obama gets 286 electoral votes, compared to McCain's 252 -- and that's even though McCain (barely) holds both Ohio and Florida! Virginia is (barely) for Obama... that's right, Virginia.

He gets materiel like this often - he has great contacts

Nooooo. Not this time. As explained in the video, some Rovebot or other was stupid enough to send all those e-mails to whitehouse.org instead of to whitehouse.com. And then the owner of whitehouse.org, who incidentally was in the audience in the video, simply forwarded them to Palast...

Follow the link to whitehouse.org. You'll laugh for as long as you stay on that site.

Posted by: David Marjanović | September 26, 2008 6:48 PM

Sad, innit? This girl is a wind-up toy. A caricature. We are witnessing nothing less than the total triumph of TeeVeePolitics (TM).

"Of course, some decisions that are made poorly should not be rewarded, of course."

I knew that by the time I was six. And it didn't take the highest offices in the nation to teach me!

Posted by: Crudely Wrott | September 26, 2008 7:03 PM

shouldn't heddle start to see how an evangelical viewpoint fail to see who palin really is?

Posted by: draconiz | September 26, 2008 7:14 PM

Is Martian Buddy a reference to what I think it is? Imps and guns and such?

Let's put it this way; if the Large Hadron Collider Dooms us all, I have practice. ;)

Posted by: Martian Buddy | September 26, 2008 7:35 PM

If you want a better understanding of the force of American anti-intellictualism, why 'Elitist' is now a pejorative, why Palin is considered viable, I recommend Greetings from Idiot America

http://www.aboyandhiscomputer.com/Greetings_from_Idiot_America.html

Posted by: charles johnson | September 26, 2008 7:55 PM

Dammit, I keep coming back to this interview. It's so funny!

Posted by: Tony Sidaway | September 26, 2008 9:35 PM

David said:

"He gets materiel like this often - he has great contacts

That's the point. His buddy sent him the e-mails, which is why he is in the audience. Palast gets great stuff sent to him all the time by whistleblowers, because of his reputation and his contacts.

In the video he also describes other situations where he procured evidence through simple dogged determination.

If you read his books, you will see that he also is willing to put in enormous hours sifting through public records, which is how he broke the Florida voter list cleansing story.

Posted by: Gingerbaker | September 26, 2008 10:25 PM

Nooooo. Not this time. As explained in the video, some Rovebot or other was stupid enough to send all those e-mails to whitehouse.org instead of to whitehouse.com. And then the owner of whitehouse.org, who incidentally was in the audience in the video, simply forwarded them to Palast...

You mean whitehouse.gov, not whitehouse.com. If you go to whitehouse.com you will see some very NSFW stuff...

Posted by: PornFan | September 26, 2008 11:38 PM

Think she looks older already.. Older and moore stupid. She actually has no answers to the questions but pretends to understand and answers with the little knowlede she has. Sarah Painful in full action. Please America dont do this to the world....

Posted by: Anders | September 27, 2008 2:05 AM

Pough asked what was worse than Bill getting a blowjob -
McCain getting one (and Sarah giving it to him!).
Try to get that image out of your head during the debate(s) (assuming they happen). :) DJ

Posted by: DingoJack | September 27, 2008 3:04 AM

The Palin and fundie phenomenon seems to me a live ecology demonstration:

In many poor and dangerous societies, girls get their first babies in their teens. Logically, because life expectancy is very low, and grandparents or other extended family members can provide the experience and maturity the mother might be lacking.

In western society, a teen mom can not rely to the same extent on her family, and the child is often disadvantaged. At least in Europe, teen pregnancies are rare.

The fundie subculture, with its focus on 'family values', opens up a new niche advantageous to early motherhood. Naturally, when a niche becomes available, it will be filled! Certainly when it concerns an opportunistic species like Homo sapiens...

Posted by: Bob | September 27, 2008 4:56 AM

Another winner from Heath. Obviously, Heath, you have no clue what you are talking about. Some of the most brilliant people I have met have been church-going Christians. You may think Palin is pathetic - and she has been - but maybe you should ponder why Obama is not absolutely spanking McCain when the stars are aligned for a Democratic victory. Something in liberalism seems to encourage brainless dogmatism too, because the Democrats couldn't find anybody better than a guy who's biggest claim to fame was a speech he gave in 2004.

Posted by: mroberts | September 27, 2008 12:50 PM

Ed, you should have also posted Part 2 of the interview!

(Not to worry! Grrl Scientists has got it covered.)

I don't want to spoil the fun for anyone who hasn't seen it yet, but the part where she talks up her foreign policy experience by mentioning the fact that Putin sometimes (to paraphrase) "rears his head in the airspace" is priceless.

Posted by: Leni | September 27, 2008 12:51 PM

I forgot to mention, if you watch the video of part two, check out Katie Couric when she asks Palin about Russia at around 3:16. She really looks like she can barely keep a straight face.

Posted by: Leni | September 27, 2008 1:00 PM

Mrroberts = At the moment the Dems lead the Repubs by 7.9%. That's certainly not unassailable, but that large a swing would be extremely unlikely. -DJ

Posted by: DingoJack | September 27, 2008 1:04 PM

Incidentally I think Ed's analogy is off as well. Palin is like a car crash, it's horrible but you can't stop watching in case you get see something truly awful. -DJ

Posted by: DingoJack | September 27, 2008 1:08 PM

So, if Palin learns to deftly dance around questions, appearing to answer them without really quite saying anything specific, the way Obama and other politicians often do, then will she be ready to govern?

Posted by: countlurkula | September 27, 2008 1:35 PM

A sidenote. I'm irked by all the smiling, waving, and hugging of politicians. Republicans and Democrats. When Bush gets off a plane. When Palin is on the move. Etc.

I prefer unsmiling, grim people in such offices. Domestic and international problems demand serious grownups. Gawd, I can't stand the waving.

Posted by: Tim B. | September 27, 2008 1:36 PM

John McCain asks if there are any other nominees with whom he can replce Palin-

His staff says - "I'll try to find you some, and I'll bring them to you."

Posted by: Benjamin Franklin | September 27, 2008 8:55 PM

She can't pronounce words correctly in her native language.

Posted by: WeeDram | September 27, 2008 10:40 PM

Some of the most brilliant people I have met have been church-going Christians. - mroberts

Judging by the rest of your comment, I'd say that's damning with faint praise.

The most likely reason Obama isn't further ahead is plain to see: he's black. Also, of course, the campaign of lies that he's a "secret Muslim", which gives many white racists the excuse they're looking for.

His biggest claim to fame is outcampaigning the Clintons.

Posted by: Nick Gotts | September 28, 2008 11:26 AM

Let's put it this way; if the Large Hadron Collider Dooms us all, I have practice. ;)

You, my friend, rock. I also have a BFG.

Posted by: Josh | September 28, 2008 11:49 AM

Dispatches from the Creation Wars

Profile

Search

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

Blogroll

Archives

Other Information

Why They Don't Want Palin Talking

Comments

Post a Comment

ScienceBlogs

Search ScienceBlogs:

Go to:

Channels

RSS Feeds

More ScienceBlogs

Editor's Picks

Science News from NYTimes.com »

From NYTimes.com