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brayton_headshot_wre_1443.jpg Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of Michigan Citizens for Science and co-founder of The Panda's Thumb. He has written for such publications as The Bard, Skeptic and Reports of the National Center for Science Education, spoken in front of many organizations and conferences, and appeared on nationally syndicated radio shows and on C-SPAN. Ed is also a Fellow with the Center for Independent Media and the host of Declaring Independence, a one hour weekly political talk show on WPRR in Grand Rapids, Michigan.(static)

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Oral Argument in Summum Case

Posted on: November 13, 2008 9:30 AM, by Ed Brayton

The Supreme Court heard oral arguments on the Summum case on Wednesday. You can see a full transcript here. You can't necessarily tell how a justice will vote based on the questions they ask or how the oral argument went for either side, but this one was particularly interesting. Jay Sekulow went first, arguing on behalf of the city of Pleasant Grove, which denied the placement of the Summum monument.

His argument, as it has been all along, is that there is no open forum established by the city through the act of accepting the Ten Commandments monument from the Eagles because once they accept it, the monument becomes government speech rather than private speech.

The decision suffers from two constitutional defects: First, the court's conclusion that a donated Ten Commandments monument constitutes private speech rather than Government speech is wrong. Here each of the monuments on display in Pioneer Park have been selected by the Government, are owned by the Government, controlled by the Government, and are displayed on Government property. When the Government is speaking, it is free from the traditional free speech constraints of the First Amendment.

Second, the court compounded its error by further concluding that Pioneer Park is a traditional public forum for the erection of permanent, unattended monuments by private parties.

He is not, of course, oblivious to the fact that this argument has clear establishment clause implications. If it's government speech rather than private speech, isn't the government endorsing the Ten Commandments? Interestingly, it was Chief Justice John Roberts who raised this issue almost immediately:

CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: Mr. Sekulow, you're really just picking your poison, aren't you? I mean, the more you say that the monument is Government speech to get out of the first, free speech -- the Free Speech Clause, the more it seems to me you're walking into a trap under the Establishment Clause. If it's Government speech, it may not present a free speech problem, but what is the Government doing speaking -- supporting the Ten Commandments?

Sekulow's answer to this was that the Ten Commandments monument was just an acknowledgment of the "pioneer heritage of the community" because those people were "on a quest for religious liberty." He also argued quite strongly that the court could not consider the establishment clause issue because the respondents in the case -- Summum -- had rested their case entirely on a free speech analysis and had waived any establishment clause basis for their argument. If the Court considered the establishment clause issue, he said, this would be "inconsistent with the relief that the Respondents are really seeking."

Justice Kennedy reminded Sekulow that this case would also establish a precedent for future cases:

JUSTICE KENNEDY: Then getting back to the Chief Justice's point, it does seem to me that if you say it's Government speech that in later cases, including the case of the existing monument, you're going to say it's Government speech and you have an Establishment Clause problem.

Sekulow then argued that even if there is an establishment clause problem, the court's ruling in Van Orden would apply and it would not be a violation because the Ten Commandments monument is one of many similar monuments in the park in Pleasant Grove, just like the courthouse grounds in Texas, which would dilute any message of endorsement. That led to a moment of laughter when Justice Ginsburg tried to distinguish this case from Van Orden because the Van Orden monument had been in place for 40 years:

JUSTICE GINSBURG: Before we get -- before we get away from the Government, the Establishment Clause, you said, well, Van Orden answered that, but did it? Because you don't have here a 40-year history of this monument being there, and nobody seems to be troubled by it.

MR. SEKULOW: There is a 36-year history here. This monument has been on display since 1971. So this monument has been there a long time, and --

JUSTICE SCALIA: I think 38 is the cut-off point.

MR. SEKULOW: Is that the cut-off?

(Laughter.)

MR. SEKULOW: Perhaps I miscounted. It may be 38.

This is one reason why I instinctively like Scalia despite my many disagreements with him. He's really quite funny. Anyway, back to the substance of the case. Several of the justices seemed to recognize another difficulty with Sekulow's argument, which is that if the government can pick and choose which monuments they want to accept, and upon acceptance those monuments immediately become government speech, they are engaging in de facto viewpoint discrimination, thus causing a free speech problem as well. Justice Stevens asked:

JUSTICE STEVENS: Assume you didn't have the policy that you do have, but it was perfectly clear that the city decided not to put up this monument because it disagreed with the message of the monument. Whether you call it Government speech or private speech, would that be permissible?

Sekulow responded that this might perhaps raise an equal protection or establishment clause problem, but not a first amendment problem. But remember, Sekulow is the very person who came up with the equal access rationale for allowing religious groups access to public facilities on equal footing with non-religious groups (in Lamb's Chapel, a unanimous ruling). And he was right about that.

But it seems to me that his theory in Lamb's Chapel applies perfectly here as well. Just as the government cannot pick and choose which community groups get to use public facilities for their meetings based upon the viewpoint expressed at those meetings, they also cannot pick and choose which community groups get to place monuments in a public park based on viewpoint.

This contradiction led Sekulow to a rather tortured argument:

JUSTICE KENNEDY: But, Justice Stevens's question is important, maybe not for your case but for other cases. We are deciding this for other cases to arise, and why isn't he correct that if you don't like the message then that raises a content-based claim?

MR. SEKULOW: Because if the Government is speaking, if it's the Government's message, they're of course allowed to engage in content-based statements.

Justice Souter recognized the shell game being played here and how the government could engage in de facto viewpoint discrimination without a de jure policy of doing so:

JUSTICE SOUTER: So the city, in effect, if the city says, we are going to have a designated ten-acre field in which anybody can put up a monument, but you can't because we don't like your message, there's a First Amendment problem. But if the city hides the ball in effect and says in effect, we'll --we'll let monuments be placed on -- we will accept monuments from people who want to place them on our property if the monuments have some kind of an arguable historical connection or a connection with people with long association with the community, as long as they have that sort of criterion in mind then they can select any way they want to?

Even Scalia recognized that this is a distinction without a difference:

JUSTICE SCALIA: It goes to the same thing, doesn't it? I mean, whether it's the Government stating the message or whether it's the Government creating a limited public forum for the presentation of only those messages that it thinks are important, it comes to the same thing, doesn't it?

Of course it does. That led to a fascinating exchange with Justice Stevens implying that they have to reach some conclusion on whether the city's policy of only accepting monuments with a tie to the city's "pioneer heritage" was a genuine and objective policy, or one merely designed to keep out viewpoints they don't like. Sekulow doesn't handle this very well:

JUSTICE STEVENS: Let me ask you a question to make sure I understand your position. It would have been permissible for the city to say, our park it filled with monuments and we are only going to let those in who convey messages that we agree with?

MR. SEKULOW: If the policy is --

JUSTICE STEVENS: If that's a policy.

MR. SEKULOW: If the policy is that we're only going -- that the Government's controlling those messages, it's not individual private expression, of course. If it's individual private -- if the Government, on the other hand, were to say --

JUSTICE STEVENS: But really, in this case sort of the debate as to whether the policy justifications for the monument are a sham are not are really irrelevant?

MR. SEKULOW: From a legal standpoint on Government speech, it's irrelevant. On the factual --
JUSTICE STEVENS: Even if it's a Government forum for private speech, I think it's the same thing. You're defining -- you define the forum to include only those -- the forum is putting up monuments. You just put up those monuments that agree with the message.

JUSTICE KENNEDY: And the same question Justice Stevens had, just to tack onto his question here, your answer was: Oh, well, the Government owns it. Suppose the Government says: We will accept ownership only if we agree with the message. That just puts his question. I think the ownership argument is --is not an answer to the Justice's question.

MR. SEKULOW: It's not ownership, Justice Kennedy, in and of itself. Ownership is an indicator, a factor for control, but it is control of the message. When the Government implanted that monument donated by the Fraternal Order of Eagles, they were sending a message. It was not a message of "I am the lord thy God" --

JUSTICE SOUTER: Nothing could be a more obvious control of the message than the criterion that says we will decide in -- in determining to accept it or not, we will decide on the basis of whether we agree with the message. That is control with a vengeance.

One of the really fascinating things about this case is how it has divided the Christian legal groups. Sekulow and the ACLJ are on one side while the Rutherford Institute is siding with Summum. They've filed a brief in the case arguing against Sekulow and Pleasant Grove. And they rip the argument being offered by Sekulow and others that if Summum wins this case, the government will be forced to erect a "statue of tyranny" beside the statue of liberty:

Pleasant Grove City contends that when government owns and controls a permanent monument or series of monuments that display private messages on public property, there is no First Amendment right to display competing messages because the displays are "government speech." The City's indiscriminately broad position is, however, belied by the anatomy of the speech in question. What the City ignores is that, "speech in fact can be, at once, that of a private individual and the government." If the City did, in fact, adopt the private speech engraved on a monument as its own, the First Amendment would presumably not apply in most situations and Summum would arguably have no right to erect its own monument. But if the City did not expressly adopt such private speech as its own, it may have engaged in unlawful viewpoint discrimination by favoring one private speaker and denying similar access to another.

Rather than yield to puerile, nonsensical shibboleths such as "the Statue of Liberty does not
require a Statue of Tyranny" or facile fearmongering about "cluttered junkyards of monuments" in the public square, this Court should instead respond with caution and careful deliberation. In resolving the difficult issues presented in this case, it is important that precious First Amendment freedoms in public places be protected...

If the City is left free to use a private surrogate to advance a particularly favored message, the shield of democratic accountability that otherwise underpins the government speech doctrine
actually serves as a means of unconstitutional viewpoint discrimination. Moreover, the City's position--that merely granting access to a forum automatically shrouds speech with the protection of the government speech doctrine, "without [the City] necessarily subscribing to the precise messages engraved thereon,"--only proves that it is not, in fact, "government speech" because the message is admittedly not one from government. As such, "government speech" becomes a fiction of law, with dangerous consequences for free speech. This Court should, therefore, decline the City's invitation to consider mere invocation of the government speech doctrine as a blanket, automatic defense to First Amendment claims, but should restrict it to those instances in which government has unambiguously adopted a particular message as its own and is clearly identified on the record as having done so.

The portion in bold refers to the city's reply brief in the case, signed by Sekulow himself, which clearly contradicts Sekulow's position that allowing a monument to be placed in a park automatically converts it from private speech to government speech. It says:

As this Court has recognized, government speech includes selecting and presenting messages that the government does not necessarily itself adopt, as with books in a library, items on display in a museum, speakers with contrary views in a lecture series, and so forth.

This is a clear contradiction in Sekulow's argument. He's trying to have his cake and eat it too. And frankly, I say let him win. I say grant the argument that this is government speech and then bring suits against such monuments all over the country on establishment clause grounds.


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Comments

1

Nice analysis, Ed. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting for us.

Posted by: James Hanley | November 13, 2008 9:47 AM

2
He also argued quite strongly that the court could not consider the establishment clause issue because the respondents in the case -- Summum -- had rested their case entirely on a free speech analysis and had waived any establishment clause basis for their argument. If the Court considered the establishment clause issue, he said, this would be "inconsistent with the relief that the Respondents are really seeking."
Is SCOTUS barred from considering establishment cause concerns because the plaintiffs did not include it in their case, and the lower courts did not rule on those grounds?

Posted by: Herod the Freemason | November 13, 2008 9:49 AM

3

I love to follow SCOTUS cases from a safe distance, but don't really have the time -- or, let's face it, the attention span -- to dig through the primary sources in detail. Thanks again, Ed!

Posted by: WScott | November 13, 2008 10:01 AM

4

Sekulow's answer to this was that the Ten Commandments monument was just an acknowledgment of the "pioneer heritage of the community" because those people were "on a quest for religious liberty."

So: this monument to the "quest for religous liberty" bears an inscription starting "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me". Am I the only one who finds this ironic?

More irony: the persecutors they were fleeing were no doubt also Christians, who also claimed a heritage in the Ten Commandments. Surely a monument to a "quest for religous liberty" should make some explicit reference either to "religious liberty" (good luck finding that in the Bible!), or to those points on which they differed from their persecutors.

The logic of these people is transparently bad.

Posted by: Eamon Knight | November 13, 2008 10:05 AM

5

"This is a clear contradiction in Sekulow's argument. He's trying to have his cake and eat it too. And frankly, I say let him win. I say grant the argument that this is government speech and then bring suits against such monuments all over the country on establishment clause grounds."

Sekulow win this case? I find that fantasy too unbelievable to indulge in.

Posted by: t_p_hamilton | November 13, 2008 10:37 AM

6

Good summary, Ed. Scotusblog also has a good post up, and will probably have several by the end of the day. For the record, I thought the Circuit Court decision was pretty good, and I suspect the Supremes' decision will be similar.

Herod: In general, Appellate Courts are limited to the questions "presented" by the appellates, that is, the issues raised as part of the appeal. The Supremes are bound by no such rules, and can and do raise additional questions which they ask the parties to brief and present.

Posted by: kehrsam | November 13, 2008 10:40 AM

7

While I recognize CJ Roberts' stated purpose to rule modestly and narrowly; what are the chances the SCOTUS could both rule on speech and the obvious establishment implications this case presents?

I ask this question cognizant that one of Sekulow's primary points is in play at least for him and the plaintiff, as described by Ed:

He also argued quite strongly that the court could not consider the establishment clause issue because the respondents in the case -- Summum -- had rested their case entirely on a free speech analysis and had waived any establishment clause basis for their argument. If the Court considered the establishment clause issue, he said, this would be "inconsistent with the relief that the Respondents are really seeking."

Posted by: Michael Heath | November 13, 2008 10:42 AM

8

"the Ten Commandments monument was just an acknowledgment of the "pioneer heritage of the community" because those people were "on a quest for religious liberty."

I think Sekulow is correct about this. Assuming that Pleasant Grove was founded by Moses and is somewhere near the Red Sea.

Posted by: Gingerbaker | November 13, 2008 11:24 AM

9

This sounds like an excellent summary Ed. The argument pursued by Sekulow seems akin to Dick Cheney's concurrently claiming executive privelege and also not being in the executive branch when he could be held responsible. If it's granted, there is no accountability held by the government at all.

I'll echo Michael Heath's question about whether the court can declare that it is government speech and that it is acceptable government speech. And would that effectively overturn the seemingly solid foundation of cases that have declared it unacceptable?

Posted by: Odie | November 13, 2008 11:33 AM

10

I enjoy the other discussion immensely, but this is why I keep coming here. Thanks, Ed. Keep up the good work.

Posted by: Shygetz | November 13, 2008 12:05 PM

11
Sekulow responded that this might perhaps raise an equal protection or establishment clause problem, but not a first amendment problem.

Just a quibble, but isn't an "establishment clause problem" also a "first amendment problem" by virtue of the fact that the establishment clause is part of the First Amendment?

Posted by: noncarborundum | November 13, 2008 12:37 PM

12

Sekulow's really trying to walk the razor's edge here. Frankly, one of the things I find most interesting is how he articulates the city's purpose: [To acknowledge] the "pioneer heritage of the community" because those people were "on a quest for religious liberty."

If that is in fact the government's message (assuming it is government speech) or the subject matter of the display (assuming private speech and a limited forum), how is including the Summum monument inconsistent with that message? The Summum religion is, after all, a relatively new religion, having been created in the mid-1970s I believe. Practitioners of Summum are themselves on a "quest for religious liberty" and thus can be seen as part of the "pioneer heritage of the community."

By contrast, rejecting the Summum monument is some proof that the articulated purpose isn't the real purpose. This would be significant not only for speech purposes, but for establishment purposes as well. If the articulated secular purpose is merely a sham to cover a sectarian purpose, the Court will look past the articulated purpose.

In other words, Sekulow is clearly aiming at defeating an establishment challenge by pointing to the historical justification the Court relied on in Van Orden. But if the historical message is as Sekulow stated it, he has an establishment problem that he may find it difficult to avoid.

Posted by: Dan | November 13, 2008 1:41 PM

13

It seems to me that there should be several constitutional paths for the town to take:

1. Allow any monuments, without restriction, in which case the Summum monument is in.

2. Allow monuments based on an objective policy of historical significance, with some criteria that are independent of religious viewpoint, in which case Summum could be in or out, depending on the criteria. (Note that Summum was founded in the 1970s, but claims to be older--they claim Moses was given the 7 Aphorisms, but didn't share them with the Hebrews because the culture was not yet mature enough to handle them, or some such nonsense.)

3. Not allow any monuments which involve expression of religious viewpoints.

It seems to me that 2 is the most sensible.

Posted by: Jim Lippard | November 13, 2008 3:02 PM

14

It seems to me that 2 is the most sensible.

But it would also seem to be the most ripe for abuse by those in power. If you already know your goals as to what should be allowed and what shouldn't, it probably wouldn't be hard to retroactively write an "objective" policy that lets in what you want and keeps out what you don't want. Historical significance is mostly in the eye of the beholder.

Posted by: Odie | November 13, 2008 3:23 PM

15

It also seems to me that 2 might violate one or more of the prongs of the Lemon test.

Posted by: Kenneth Fair | November 13, 2008 4:49 PM

16

Good summary, Ed. The problem with this case is that Summum litigated on Free Speech grounds, when they should have used Establishment Clause grounds. This makes the legal arguments inordinately complex and confusing. Even Sekulow is confused, thus his many contradictory statements. If Summum loses, AU is going to refile under Establishment Clause grounds, because the facts speak clearly of religious discrimination and EC violation. The justices should decide the case on both free speech and establishment clause grounds, but they probably won't, even though some of them clearly recognize the issues. This is what happens when religious extremists have control of secular government. The "pioneer heritage of the community" is a sham justification. This excuse could be used for a multitude of sins.

Posted by: Steven Schafersman | November 13, 2008 5:00 PM

17

I'm about a quarter of the way through the transcript (slow day at work).

It is interesting to see the same tactics used in front of the Supreme Court that I see religionists and creationists (as well as many other supporters of woo) of equivocation and evasion.

It appears the justices are used to it.

For instance on page 21 (from the pdf):

JUSTICE SOUTER: And the -- the Government says: Okay, we'll take the Eagles monument. We will not on identical terms take the Summum monument because we disagree with the message. At the point they make the decision they don't own anything. What they are doing is controlling, in your words, and they are controlling on the basis of agreement with the message. Why isn't that a First Amendment violation?

MR. SEKULOW: It's not a First Amendment violation because the Government takes ownership and control at the time it's displayed, and there is no dispute at the time it's displayed that the Government is conveying a message.
Sekulow means that it's not a free speech issue, but it's still an establishment issue. He seems to be trying to bluff his way out of getting the SCOTUS to examine the very clear establishment issue by conflating the free speech clause with the whole First Amendment, and hoping no one notices.

Posted by: FastLane | November 13, 2008 5:06 PM

18

Jay Sekulow arguing on behalf of the Mormons of Pleasant Grove? That would have been a fantastic sight to see.

Sekulow demonstrates he's either an ignoramus about Utah, or that he hopes to pull the wool over the eyes of the Supreme Court. Had Pleasant Grove erected a monument reflecting their pioneer heritage and citing some scripture, they'd have listed the LDS 13 Articles of Faith. Or, much more likely, they'd have had a nice bas relief of conestoga wagons and handcarts, and maybe a scene of the Battle of Battlecreek Canyon (the first pioneer/Indian battle in Utah), perhaps a portrayal of the first irrigation ditch, and some Mormon guy with a shovel. That's what's on all the other pioneer monuments in Utah.

The worst thing is, I have no doubt that the once well-educated Grovians are now happy to have the ill-informed Sekulow defend them, though Sekulow probably holds the standard Pat Robertson disdain for Mormons, and they don't know that they would have been better served to dump the Eagles monument, or to have a good lawyer from Utah defend the stuff on factual grounds.

I'm waiting for the day some wise city says, "This isn't a religious monument! It's an ad for de Mille's movie!" That's about as secular as it can get.

Oy, this former Grovian needs a stiff drink.

Posted by: Ed Darrell | November 13, 2008 5:10 PM

19

I've been boning up on the Van Orden decision, and while I don't think it gives Sekulow has a prayer of sneaking this through, it does seem to contain some provisions that are downright retarded (for lack of a technical legal term) from an Establishment-Clause point of view.

For one, it asserts that the monument's 40-year presence without legal challenge somehow establishes that its message is primarily secular. I'm sure a few vertebrae cracked when they wrote that one. I guess we don't need to protect the rights of minorities providing they're sufficiently cowed.

Second, it asserts that by consulting members of several sects (All Christian or Jewish, mind you), made the message secular. I guess they just forgot about the E.C. jurisprudence that forbids the government from promoting religion over non-religion.

Third, it asserts that because the Fraternal Order of Eagles is not by design a religious organization, the text should not be construed as having a religious message. Funny, school boards are supposed to be explicitly secular organizations, and that hasn't stopped them from being hijacked by religious zealots with an agenda.

The only thing I can see that would sink a defense of the Summum matter under Van Orden is the setting. The monument in Van Orden was much more credibly tied into the displays theme of "Historical Moral Ideals of Texans" than the Pleasant Grove monument is to "Pioneer Heritage" or a "Quest for Religious Freedom":

1) The journey of the Pleasant Grove settlers, we can safely assume, did not involve a descent from Mt. Sinai. Neither do the 10 commandments date from the time of Pleasant Grove's founding, nor (to my knowledge) was such a monument present in the city's pioneer days.

2) The version of the Ten Commandments in the monument is not the version used by the Mormon settlers. Indeed, it is much more like that used by the religious majority they would have been fleeing.

3) 4 of the 10 Commandments are completely repugnant to the entire concept of religious freedom.

4) Even if the monument fit in with the state's stated theme, the rejection of a pioneering religious minority's monument would, as Dan notes above, seem to expose that purpose as a sham.

In my lifetime, I hope to see the Supreme Court stand up and recognize the primary purpose of these monuments for what it is: territorial pissing. They are there to demonstrate who owns the town, who runs things, who has the power. "Recognizing the historical contributions of Christianity" is just a cutesy code phrase for defining who are the insiders, favoured members of the political community, and who is not- and that's exactly what the Establishment Clause is supposed to prohibit.

Posted by: DaveL | November 13, 2008 5:24 PM

20

Oops, the close quote should be after the second to last paragraph....grrrr...Learn to preveiw.

Posted by: FastLane | November 13, 2008 5:25 PM

21

Jim Lippard; your option 2 is exactly what Sekulow is arguing, and the argument is still a sham: The argument is that if the city takes a viewpoint-restrictive decision and dresses it up with some criteria which still allow the city to make their predetermined decision, this somehow changes the nature of the review. It does not.

Lemon pretty much is an application of strict scrutiny. What the city wants is to convert this situation to a mere Rational Relationship review, which it then easily passes.

I am not aware of any authority for the proposition that involving a religious issue in a larger question also containing non-religious issues somehow converts the standard of review for the religious issue. Sekulow really is trying to play Three-card Monty here.

He does have an argument, but it at an entirely different level of impact: If the city were allowing citizens to donate an inscribed brick for a walkway in front of the courthouse, there is no issue, probably not even if all the donated bricks bore the Seven Aphorisms. If Summum were donating a book about themselves to the public library, no issue, even if it were a "Holy" book. The issue is with the scale of the monument and its placement.

The scale of the monuments in question rules out this type of interpretation, especially since the goal is so clearly to "protect" the Ten Commandments monument. If the city already had forty varied monuments in the park and claimed they had no more room, that might move things closer to van Orden. But claiming that only one big block can be accommodated is clear viewpoint discrimination.

Posted by: kehrsam | November 13, 2008 5:47 PM

22

Odie, Kenneth:

The depiction of Moses within the Supreme Court building, while an explicitly religious (and likely fictional) character, is not an establishment clause violation because it appears within the context of other lawgivers of history and legend, right? Isn't that an instance of choosing #2 instead of #1 or #3?

I don't mean to be arguing that Pleasant Grove's ten commandments monument isn't an establishment clause violation--I think it is--but in light of Van Orden (apart from the flaws DaveL points out), it seems like government should be able to allow multiple monuments around a theme, including ones which represent factual information about religious traditions, without thereby opening it up to any crypto-religious "tradition" that some crackpot makes up on the spot (such as Summum). (Though one could certainly argue accurately that the major world religions had similar origins, just longer ago in the past.)

Posted by: Jim Lippard | November 13, 2008 6:01 PM

23

kehrsam: In your brick paving example, could the government exercise any discretion at all over what brick slogans it accepts? What if my religion has a slogan, "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke"? If they rejected that on the grounds of offensive language, but allowed religious language from other religions (which I might find offensive on other grounds), should the First Amendment force them to allow my brick or disallow all religious bricks? (But isn't disallowing all religious bricks a form of viewpoint discrimination?)

Posted by: Jim Lippard | November 13, 2008 6:27 PM

24
without thereby opening it up to any crypto-religious "tradition" that some crackpot makes up on the spot

And that, my friends, (besides being prejudicial) is a perfect eample of Tyranny of the Majority.

Posted by: R Hampton | November 13, 2008 7:27 PM

25

Jim: In my opinion, this would be more analogous to books purchased by the library. It has no obligation to purchase every book ever written; instead there is a lot of discretion, but no so much that they can have a whole section of Hindu literature and no Bibles. So I imagine there is not a problem with the city prohibiting vulgar statements on bricks, the same as state DMVs don't have to issue vulgar vanity plates. Interesting question.

Posted by: kehrsam | November 13, 2008 8:43 PM

26

Two questions for legal beagles:

1. Cite for a case establishing the government's right to free speech? (Or am I missing the obvious?)

2. One view of the free exercise and establishment clauses is that they define a niche in which special rules for rights apply; eg, the FE right comes with attendant limits on government's right to free speech: eg, no endorsement. Doesn't this view argue against Mr. Sokulow's attempt to disentangle the government free speech defense from an alternative attack based on the EC?

In the absence of such disentanglement, Mr. Brayton's "let him win" position seems to resolve many issues. Not being in the niche, the "statue of despotism" (et al) is out because the government is free to endorse liberty over despotism. The clutter problem is avoided since a government entity is free to choose among monuments that don't fall in the niche and can simply erect none that do. In principle, of course, existing monuments that fall in the niche should be removed, although pragmatism might suggest some leeway on that.

Re bricks, I see the issue as a matter not of size but of agency. An orator in a public park temporarily functioning as a public forum is clearly not speaking for - ie, is not an agent of - the park's owner. However, a permanent installation of any size strongly suggests (to me, anyway) a degree of agency and therefore arguably constitutes government speech. From this perspective, bricks and monuments should be treated the same. As should temporary installations (eg, religious displays), but the endorsement problem can be resolved by allowing fair access to available space, and any resulting clutter - being also temporary - presumably would be managable.

Ironic that the (IMO) mindless obsession with 10C installations leads to so many entertaining brain teasers.

- Charles

Posted by: ctw | November 14, 2008 4:27 AM

27

You know, there's the other thing about this case that really bothers me. The Summum group is probably just doing what the beer brewers in Utah do better, twisting the tail of the Mormons-in-government cat.

How do the brewers do it better? Stop in a Salt Lake City grocery store and look at the displays of Polygamy Porter, First Amendment Ale, Evolution Amber and Provo Girl (formerly St. Provo Girl, until the St. Pauli Girl brewer sued for infringement).

And if the city officials in Pleasant Grove had much sense, they would have done what their fore-city commissioners did -- put the monument in an out-of-the-way place where almost no one would see it.

Posted by: Ed Darrell | November 14, 2008 9:16 AM

28
And if the city officials in Pleasant Grove had much sense, they would have done what their fore-city commissioners did -- put the monument in an out-of-the-way place where almost no one would see it.

Which makes another data point for the thesis that this is all about Pleasant Grove desiring to endorse a specific religion and being unwilling to offer any accommodation to other viewpoints.

Posted by: Martian Buddy | November 14, 2008 4:55 PM

29

R. Hampton: So is it your opinion that there are no objective standards of discretion between fact and nonsense? That public schools should teach astrology as well as astronomy?

Posted by: Jim Lippard | November 14, 2008 11:33 PM

30

Why do religious people/groups have to try to put their messages on public property? They own plenty of land- often some of the most valuable, prominent, TAX FREE lots in an area. If its SO important to display their beliefs, let them put their commandments, bible verses, and symbols on their property.

But they are not satisfied with this, they want the government to endorse their beliefs, with no consideration for others, or even for the laws that keep them safe from persecution.

Religious believers have no problem violating the EC when it suits them, but love the protection that the separation of church and state affords when it comes to TAXATION.
If they are serious about putting their beliefs and symbols all over public land, they should at least PAY THEIR SHARE OF TAXES. Why they think that the public should pay for them to display their beliefs is beyond me.

SJW

Posted by: StaceyJW | November 15, 2008 12:26 AM

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