Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
Mike Huckabee gave an interview to the Florida Baptist Witness where the incredibly popular Christian martyr pose was on full display. First he says something stupid about the atheist sign in Washington:
Christians need to be "very firm" but not angry in addressing issues like the recent flap in Washington State where atheists have placed a sign in the rotunda of the state capitol denigrating religion, Mike Huckabee told Florida Baptist Witness in an interview Dec. 9."It's not a matter of turning the other cheek," Huckabee said. "Atheists resent that there's a holiday that Christians can celebrate."
This is gibberish. Christians do not need to be the least bit firm in "addressing" the atheist sign. It doesn't need to be addressed at all and is only being addressed by demagogues like Bill O'Reilly and Ken Hutcherson. The fact that other people have the right to say that they think your views are wrong is not a problem to be addressed. And atheist do not resent that Christians can celebrate Christmas; lots and lots of atheists celebrate Christmas in all the same ways that Christians do (and many Christians refuse to celebrate it because of its pagan origins).
Then he makes a stupid statement about the notion of religious accommodation:
"We shouldn't be angry, but we should be also very firm in saying that we are a nation that not only allows, but actually encourages people of faith to express themselves," Huckabee said. Citing foot baths provided for Muslims at the University of Michigan, he said accommodation are made for people of "every faith except Christians."
Is Huckabee really this ignorant? Let's make just a short list of some of the ways that the law provides accommodation for Christianity:
The Religious Freedom Restoration Act provides for exceptions to generally applicable laws if those laws infringe on an individual's religious freedom. The law requires that the individual be granted an exemption from a generally applicable law unless the government can show that the law is the least restrictive means of achieving a compelling state interest. In fact, only the religious can qualify for such protection and, since the vast majority of Americans are Christian, the vast majority of RFRA cases are also brought by Christians. Special rights, indeed.
The Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act, a more specific form of RFRA, gives churches exemptions from local zoning laws. Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Christian churches have taken advantage of that law to violate local zoning codes, something that no non-religious organization has any legal right to do. More of those special rights.
School districts all over the country have released time programs, breaking up the school day to let Christian students leave the school for an hour or two every week to go to a local church for religious instruction. And once again, this is something that no non-religious organization could even dream of doing. Hell, a school board that even suggested that students should be released from school to go to, say, a Center for Inquiry office to learn about humanism would be voted out in a heartbeat.
The ministerial exception automatically grants exemptions for religious organizations from state and federal anti-discrimination laws. The law already requires that every employer make reasonable accommodation to their employees' religious beliefs, and only for religious beliefs, including giving them days off for the sabbath.
If the non-religious present a cogent, logical argument for why a given law should not apply to them, say by showing that there is no compelling interest for such a law and the law infringes on their freedom, they can almost never win such an argument in court because the court only apply strict scrutiny in a limited range of cases. A religious person, on the other hand, can get relief from those laws merely by asserting that the law interferes with their religious freedom. Religious freedoms, you see, are far more important than non-religious freedoms.
This country accommodates Christianity in a thousand ways every day. Huckabee doesn't notice them because he simply takes them for granted. But when any group other than Christians demands the same kinds of accommodation, that somehow amounts to persecution of Christians. Absolutely ridiculous.
"It's perfectly legitimate in our culture today to engage in outright persecution against Christians with seemingly no social penalty for doing it, whether it's tearing a cross out of a lady's hand in California who happened to support Proposition 8 or the denigration of Christian values by not allowing even the traditional Christmas carols to be sung at a school," Huckabee said. "Regardless of whether someone adheres to faith, one cannot escape the cultural implications of those hymns and the Christmas holiday on the American way of life. ... [W]e shouldn't have special rules for everybody but Christians and then those rules are pushed and we become the persecuted."
Again, pure ignorance. Christmas carols are sung at thousands of schools all over this country every year. The courts have supported that. On the other hand, can you even begin to imagine a school choir singing a song with an atheist theme? Or a Muslim theme? You Christians are just so persecuted!
Then there's this whopper:
The sanctity of human life is an important issue because it is the barometer of the culture, he said."I think it's a fundamental underlying issue of our civilization, because it really is a reflection of how we will treat each other," Huckabee said. "That's how we're judged in history. If we have a cavalier attitude toward any human life for whatever reason then once we have crossed that Rubicon it's easy for us to say, well, if we can take the life of the unborn--because it's an economic interruption or a social interference, then when a person becomes elderly and becomes an economic interference or a social disruption--are we not making the same decision to terminate that life.
"All life has intrinsic worth and value and the moment we start devaluing any life and believe that my selfish motives, whatever they are, are of greater consequence than the life of the other person, whatever those consequences--we've already made a huge mistake from which we can't recover," Huckabee continued.
I love when people make such broad moral statements and then contradict them. If he really believed that "the moment we start devaluing any life and believe that my selfish motives, whatever they are, are of greater consequence than the life of the other person, whatever those consequences" is a "huge mistake" then he would be opposed to all wars. But he's not.
Politics
Comments
Being an atheist gets one no respect. That's why I joined the Church of FSM and proudly state that I'm a Pastafarian on any of these applications! I encourage you all to explore your faith @ http://www.venganza.org/
Posted by: Audrey | December 18, 2008 9:47 AM
um, I stopped at the first Huckabee quote because "it's not a matter of turning the other cheek" is totally incorrect. This is exactly the kind of situation where a Christian *should want to* turn the other cheek. Someone has insulted you, you don't respond in kind, you just keep on doing good and letting that speak for itself. That's the whole point of turning the other cheek... not engaging in a provoked fight (doesn't matter who is the predicted winner/loser, you shouldn't engage). And here's Huck choosing not to follow the instructions he claims to believe were handed down in holy scripture.
Of course that wouldn't garner him attention and it's a much more difficult test of charachter to pass... which might be why he isn't passing it...
Posted by: kodiak | December 18, 2008 9:52 AM
Don't churches get TAX EXEMPTIONS?
I vote we end this ' terrible persecution of the Christian Faith' immediately! -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | December 18, 2008 9:56 AM
er, to be clear, the "someone has insulted you" I wrote above is meant as "[in Huckabee's mind] someone has insulted you".
Posted by: kodiak | December 18, 2008 9:59 AM
Let's see. Rotunda. With Christian Christmas display. Apparently Christians ARE allowed to express themselves. This Christian feels expressed. Hey, the atheists get to express themselves, too! Awesome! People of two different religions freely expressing themselves! Like we live in a awesome free country!
How are Christians not getting to express themselves here? It's like he really means, "Christians don't get to express themselves to the complete exclusion of scum who belief wrong things, as defined by ME, who has been gifted by God with perfect insight." Naw, couldn't be, Christians are humble.
Posted by: Michael Suttkus, II | December 18, 2008 10:02 AM
Ooops! I posted on wrong article - I've been on a low carb diet. I've gotta go to communion to get my blood sugar up!
Posted by: Audrey | December 18, 2008 10:06 AM
Ooops! I posted on wrong article - I've been on a low carb diet. I've gotta go to communion to get my blood sugar up!
Posted by: Audrey | December 18, 2008 10:15 AM
Audrey, your comment works well enough here too. Though it did for a moment make me wonder if I'd suddenly developed precognition.
Posted by: Abby Normal | December 18, 2008 10:32 AM
Yeah Audrey, no fair!
How come you make more sense posting on the wrong thread, than I do posting on the right one. :( DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | December 18, 2008 10:41 AM
"This country accommodates Christianity in a thousand ways every day. Huckabee doesn't notice them because he simply takes them for granted."
I think this is a very good point.
Posted by: catgirl | December 18, 2008 10:57 AM
Huckabee is a smiling, charming, glad-handing fool. Jon Stewart handed him his ass on The Daily Show when he told Huckabee that religion was "the real lifestyle choice," (around 4:12) not homosexuality, and Huckabee just blathers on. He is presented an idea through reason and rationality, but he simply cannot accept this; his faith is blinding him. Huckabee's the real deal, a theocrat, a true danger to democracy.
Posted by: Will E. | December 18, 2008 10:57 AM
Ahh yes. The Florida Baptist Witness. The same paper that published the interview with Katherine Harris where she said this
How's that Senate seat treating you Katherine?
Seems pretty in line with their Journalistic standards. I'm sure Huckabee got a hero's welcome there.
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | December 18, 2008 11:04 AM
Abby,
I think precognition is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I've been crossing my fingers for heat vision, personally.
Posted by: Jimmy Olson | December 18, 2008 11:08 AM
"The sanctity of human life is an important issue because it is the barometer of the culture, he said."
Hmmm, I've got 10 says the benighted one supports the death penalty
Posted by: Ramel | December 18, 2008 11:46 AM
It's such hypocrisy that causes the "pro-life" movement to lose all credibility in my eyes. No surprise that the Huckster is regurgitating these talking points all around.
Posted by: Sadie Morrison | December 18, 2008 11:47 AM
I am starting to think Ed's blog is a plot to get the atheists to leave the USA. It is certainly making me consider it.
Posted by: Blue Nine | December 18, 2008 12:06 PM
Don't do it, Blue - we need you to stick around and help us change things. The efforts of Ed and others on their blogs to publicize such hypocritical persecution claims need to be supported by little things - a bumper sticker on your car, a t-shirt with an atheist logo or slogan, a letter to the editor in your local paper or to your local politicians, donations to non-religious charities...anything to get the public to realize that we exist, we're not ashamed, and we're not ravaging anti-social baby-eating anarchists.
And of course, we need your vote in every election.
Posted by: BobApril | December 18, 2008 12:32 PM
In terms of long range planning you want to keep huckster and even paloon talking so they get nominated in 2012 and get blasted worse than McCain did. The more they talk the more nonsense gets on the record. In 3 years it ought to be enough to sink an ark.
Posted by: Mike | December 18, 2008 12:52 PM
Sounds more like a curse to me. I can just imagine admiring an attractive person strolling by, focusing just a little too hard, and turning their hot bod into a really hot bod.
Posted by: Abby Normal | December 18, 2008 1:14 PM
"I've been crossing my fingers for heat vision, personally."
Screw that! I want X-ray vision!
Posted by: Blondin | December 18, 2008 1:17 PM
It's funny, I asked my wife why we bother celebrating Christmas, we are both non-believers, she's an outright atheist, I'm a highly skeptical agnostic. We don't have religious family around that we need to humor, and we really don't need an excuse to give gifts to one another, we do so for random, "I thought you'd like this" reasons.
Her reply ... "We bought that Christmas tree last year and I really want to put it to good use so we don't waste the money."
Tis the season... ;o)
Posted by: dogmeatib | December 18, 2008 1:56 PM
The victim routine is a standard bully tactic.
Push someone around, then play the victim when they push back.
Posted by: kamaka | December 18, 2008 2:42 PM
In the psychology field, isn't this called "projection"? Namely, you persecute a despised enemy and then claim you're the one who's being persecuted? This is the same tired old shtick from the religious right. They need to find some new material, because their act has gotten old.
Posted by: Raymond Minton | December 18, 2008 3:52 PM
Where does this ignorant attitude come from? As has been pointed out, plenty of atheists celebrate Christmas--the essentially pagan mid-winter celebration that almost everyone celebrates. Personally, I have no objection to anyone wanting to celebrate the holiday. I mean, why should anyone even care? I'm looking forward to a relaxing week off.
It's always a red flag whenever someone is spouting off like this, and it's usually a politician. They always ascribe characteristics to their opponent that they themselves have. This kind of posturing is a dead giveaway. It's really the atheist that's being persecuted, and it's only because atheists have decided enough is enough that we have this "controversy."
We don't want to get rid of Christianity (well, I don't, anyway), we just want them to get out of our faces about our peculiar lack of belief in a magical sky god. Unless it's the FSM.
Ramen.
Posted by: John H. | December 18, 2008 4:01 PM
"Huckabee is a smiling, charming, glad-handing fool."
He is smiling and glad-handing, but he is no fool. He is as cool and calculating a liar as they come, up with the ranks of Nixon, Clinton, and Reagan.
He has the unnerving ability to lie repeatedly, without remorse, and hit the core of a loud and vocal few on the fringe.
Dishonest? Yes
Reprehensible? Yes
A fool - not by a long shot.
Posted by: dean | December 18, 2008 4:09 PM
Posted by: tincture | December 18, 2008 5:33 PM
Ugh. Fucked up the blockquotes. Obviously "Atheism is not a religion" was by me.
Posted by: tincture | December 18, 2008 5:35 PM
I say, again, arguing atheism isn't a religion WILL bite you in a first amendment case at some point.
The attitude comes from the ignorance, it's a justification. His real objection is that atheists and, really, anyone he disagrees with, is allowed to spread "lies" around. Since he can't say that, he's got to find another excuse to justify his anger. So he pretends he's being attacked.
Posted by: Michael Suttkus, II | December 18, 2008 6:27 PM
Tincture: "Atheism is not a religion."
Okay by me. Michael's comment work just as well if it's paraphrased thusly: "People who have different views about religion freely expressing themselves!"
Which is exactly what Michael was driving at, I think.
Posted by: Leigh Williams | December 18, 2008 6:31 PM
Perhaps the most idiotic element of Huckabee's statement ("Atheists resent that there's a holiday that Christians can celebrate.") is that Christmas is founded on a Pagan festival, not a Christian one.
Posted by: CHV | December 18, 2008 7:28 PM
Uh, no. I get to do all the things that Xians do at Christmas. I eat too much, I get presents I really didn't want, I drink a fair bit, I enjoy the company of loved ones. I just don't have to waste good partying time begging an imaginary sky-fairy for mercy and telling him how wonderful he is. (Jeez that sky-fairy is insecure)
Io Saturnalia!
Posted by: BaldApe | December 18, 2008 7:36 PM
Ah, bearing false witness. I do so love it when christians conveniently ignore their own rules. What I'd really like is for see him back that up with some facts, some evidence that any atheist anywhere has made such a statement.
Oh wait, I forgot - he's a christian...
Posted by: Wowbagger | December 18, 2008 7:58 PM
Dishonest? Yes
Reprehensible? Yes
A fool - not by a long shot.
Point taken. He certainly does know what he's doing, and a real threat, but does he believe those lies? For instance, he's stated he doesn't believe in evolution; now, does he say that because he knows it will get him the fundamentalist vote, or because he really doesn't believe in evolution? That's what I wonder with folks like him. In Huckabee's case, with his long history of involvement with very conservative churches, I think he means what he says. But it's rather a moot point because the outcome would be the same either way no matter what he actually believes. If he's truly lying just to get votes, fuck him. If he believes his bible blather and wants to impose it on Americans, fuck him. No matter what, he is a danger. But I think he's (deep sigh) just another Liar for Jesus.
Posted by: Will E. | December 18, 2008 8:05 PM
What? You have a thing for bones? I'd rather see what's hot!
Posted by: Ferrous Patella | December 19, 2008 12:39 AM
I wonder how many xians have read the Book of Jeremiah?
Specifically, Jeremiah 10
Posted by: FastLane | December 19, 2008 9:46 AM
I think his complex is real, the "persecution" is fake.
Posted by: democommie | December 19, 2008 12:43 PM
FastLane Said: I wonder how many xians have read the Book of Jeremiah?
A whopping total of none? The vast majority of them aren't even familiar with their own book. The largest percentage of Biblical Illiterate people (there was a survey done a while back - I can't find it, but if someone could, I'd appreciate it), I believe, came from Fundamentalist families. The only parts of the Bible that they knew are the parts taught to them on Sunday - which, ironically enough, are the same exact parts that serve a political agenda.
As for the "persecution" syndrome - well hell, folks. That's how they roll. They've learned that minorities get "special treatment" (read: equal rights) when they sound-off and demand them (as they well should). They want "special treatment" too, so they've co-opted that rhetoric, and spout off about being "persecuted" so they can be like the minorities, get "special rights," and have the added bonus of not actually being a minority or experience persecution. It helps that their book tells them to expect being persecuted; I don't think it's so much a complex as it is a linguistic and rhetorical maneuver to try and get people feeling sorry for them and siding with them - especially a lot of mainstream Christians, who aren't any less prone to this style of rhetoric.
Posted by: TheEngima32 | December 22, 2008 1:37 AM