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Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of Michigan Citizens for Science and co-founder of The Panda's Thumb. He has written for such publications as The Bard, Skeptic and Reports of the National Center for Science Education, spoken in front of many organizations and conferences, and appeared on nationally syndicated radio shows and on C-SPAN. Ed is also a Fellow with the Center for Independent Media and the host of Declaring Independence, a one hour weekly political talk show on WPRR in Grand Rapids, Michigan.(static)
Ed Brayton also blogs at Positive Liberty and The Panda's Thumb
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Posted on: December 6, 2008 9:16 AM, by Ed Brayton
Ah, the things we learn from our parents:
Police in southwestern Ohio say a police chief mistakenly shot himself in the thigh after giving his daughter a gun safety lesson.A police report says 54-year-old Middletown police Chief Greg Schwarber was preparing to clean his Glock .45-caliber pistol on Friday and didn't realize the gun was still loaded.
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Comments
Ah, gun-safety lesson accidents! That old heart-warming perennial. Guns don't kill people; idiots do. Thank goodness this tale did not end in a fatality. Too many of these end up being worthy of Darwin Awards. And the really tragic ones where the kids get killed are just horror stories that make you sick.
Posted by: Zeno | December 6, 2008 10:14 AM
You know, as a gun owner myself, I find this sort of thing to be spectacularly depressing. Not because of an accidental discharge, but because it's the 21st century, and the powder-driven bullet is still the only real option we have for self-defense. I mean, never mind the flying car, where's my raygun?
Posted by: Paul Lundgren | December 6, 2008 10:55 AM
Three of the most dangerous words in the English language:
"It's not loaded."
Posted by: BaldApe | December 6, 2008 11:04 AM
Any relation to Plaxico Burress? Or did they perhaps go to the same firearms safety and responsibility instructor?
Posted by: jws | December 6, 2008 11:17 AM
He knew the gun was still loaded, all right. He just wanted to give his daughter the best possible lesson about making sure your pistol has no more ammo left in it.
You can bet she will NEVER make the same mistake as her Dad. The guy is a frackin' hero in my book.
Just wait until next month when he shows her how to drive the car on the highway.
Seriously, at least the fellow was giving his daughter a gun safety lesson. People should know how to use the things safely, even if they think they may not want one in their own homes.
Posted by: Gingerbaker | December 6, 2008 11:48 AM
If the object is home defense, what's the point of even having an unloaded gun?
Posted by: Wesley R. Elsberry | December 6, 2008 1:24 PM
Every gun store I have been to will tell you the best gun for home defense is a shotgun. Also, notice how it's always semi-auto handguns in accidental shootings. If you must, get yourself a nice Colt revolver. I always wanted a Python but they stopped making them.
Posted by: Phil | December 6, 2008 1:42 PM
You know, the very first thing they teach you before you get your blue card is to assume that every weapon is loaded.
Apparently the chief forgot that lesson.
Posted by: Tony P | December 6, 2008 1:48 PM
Unless you are truly willing to shoot another human being (easier said than done, from what I've heard) the gun might as well not be loaded.
Actually, the home defense argument has always irritated me. I have fired handguns, rifles, and shotguns many times, but never in self defense. In fact, never at a living thing.
Posted by: BaldApe | December 6, 2008 3:16 PM
You know, I've never even touched a firearm, yet I've had these two rules of gun safety indoctrinated into me:
1) Every gun "is" loaded
2) Whatever you point the gun at "is going to" get shot
So what's this unaware it was loaded stuff? You always assume it is, and this is exactly why.
Posted by: Nentuaby | December 6, 2008 4:03 PM
Posted by: JThompson | December 6, 2008 4:27 PM
Gotta agree with Nentuaby. The first rule of gun safety is Every gun is loaded. Never assume it is not. That way, you don't make stupid mistakes or handle your firearm in an inappropriate manner.
Did anyone see the YouTube video of a certain "qualified" federal agent who shot himself in the leg in front of a classroom? That is pure negligence.
Posted by: Danny | December 6, 2008 6:46 PM
Ok, if those actually existed, I would be a much, much bigger supporter of gun rights. I would also probably be an ardent gun collector.
*sigh*
But I will never have a ray gun or a robot butler. It's all so damn unfair.
Posted by: Leni | December 6, 2008 7:08 PM
Leni -
But I will never have a ray gun or a robot butler. It's all so damn unfair.
Fear not, given the chance, my six year old would love to make you a robot butler. Pretty sure he'd go for making a ray gun too - but he loves to talk about the robots he's going to build. But you'll have to wait in line, because he has a lot of robots to make first. Butlers are definitely on the list though - it'll vacuum, cook and everything else you need it to. If you ask really nice, he may even put a ray gun in the robot butler. What could beat that?
Posted by: DuWayne | December 6, 2008 7:17 PM
What could beat that?
Duh. Laser beam eyes. Gods I'm fucking dumb sometimes...
Posted by: DuWayne | December 6, 2008 7:23 PM
Wow. What a moron. Gun safety 101: The gun IS loaded unless you are looking into the open, empty chamber. You also do not point a gun at anything you are not intending to shoot.
Posted by: Uncephalized | December 6, 2008 8:37 PM
Well, I would say a robot butler with ray guns that played chess, but we all know how well that one works out.
(No, I am not referring to Deep Blue. I'm referring the proto-sentient machine that eventually gives rise to Skynet, which, as we all know, will come back from the future again and again until every single human being is either dead or enslaved.)
So the laser eyes are fine, but please- for the love of all things good- tell him to stay the hell away from chess!
Posted by: Leni | December 6, 2008 8:39 PM
My dad indoctrinated me into gun-safety rules - the right way to cross a fence with a gun, when you can assume it's unloaded (when it is completely disassembled, basically), never pointing it at anything that isn't a target, and never carrying a 12ga and a 20ga on the same outing.
My home-defense weapon is an old golf club. Pretty unlikely that'll go off and kill someone across the street.
As always, Jon Stewart had the funniest take on Plaxico.
Posted by: george.w | December 6, 2008 10:56 PM
Three of the most dangerous words in the English language:
"It's not loaded."
I'd still advise her to make you wear a condom.
Posted by: Graculus | December 6, 2008 11:39 PM
Way back when I was in the USAF, I was talking to one of the engineers in my CE squadron about guns. He was an Olympic class marksman (an alternate in '56 or something). When I asked him about handguns for home defense he said, more or less:
"Forget it. Buy a .410 Ga single shot. Saw off the barrel and stock so it's "swingable" in close quarters. Keep it under the mattress. Aim for center mass, from about 8-10 feet. You go to jail, maybe. The perp goes to the morgue, almost certainly, if you hit him there."
I never went that route, there are all sorts of weaponizable materials in the house, remember "Straw Dogs"?
I was in a local convenience store in rural NH one day and heard the owner relating a story about a would be burglar who was rummaging about in his downstairs when he heard him. His shotgun WAS under the bed, but the ammo was not. He went over the top of the stairs and pumped it, once. He said about 5 seconds later he heard a crash, and then the sound of someone running off through the woods behind the house. Apparently an experienced (but still pretty stupid) B&E guy.
Posted by: d.emocommie | December 7, 2008 11:26 AM
I don't understand the reasoning the USAF guy suggested a single-shot. He's certainly correct a shotgun is far superior to a handgun for home defense and if there is a lady in the house, a 410 is also a smart choice if she's trained to use it since it is easier to handle than a 20, 16, or 12 gauge.
But I would recommend a single barrel sawed-off pump shotgun where you also take the plug out so you can hold five shells instead of only three. I recommend buckshot instead of a slug so you get a pattern and don't need to aim, just point and shoot - this is the advantage over a handgun using a single bullet rather than a bunch of pellets spread in a pattern per trigger pull. Sawing off the barrel widens the pattern, lessening the need to aim over pointing, especially helpful in the dark or when having to pull up and shoot quickly at close range.
I guess if a person wants protection but leans toward bleeding heart they could swap out the buckshot for birdshot, but given the amount of adrenaline flowing when you get shot at, I would argue that would endanger the shooter more than is acceptable if the target felt trapped or was high on certain types of drugs and comes after you after getting hit with bird shot.
Posted by: Michael Heath | December 7, 2008 1:22 PM
Michael Heath:
I'm thinking his thinking was that the "little woman" would just get confused if she had more than one in the tube (we had been talking about that aspect at some point in the conversation). He did recommend buckshot, but not 00; he said that something smaller would do plenty of damage at close range. Sorry for not being more informative. All of your other points are similar to what he said. He did say that from eight or ten feet away, the business end of a .410 looks like a sewer pipe if it's pointed at you.
Posted by: democommie | December 7, 2008 4:55 PM
"it's the 21st century, and the powder-driven bullet is still the only real option we have for self-defense."
Yeh, it's be so much better if every undiagnosed mental case was packing a phaser.
As for me, my self-defence is to pay my taxes to a society of laws, that disburses some of that money to maintain a police force and judicial system. Works for me.
Remember: guns don't kill people. People kill people. With guns.
Posted by: Paul Murray | December 7, 2008 6:32 PM
Paul Murray -
Not that I would ever advocate anyone who isn't comfortable with a gun to own one, I most certainly do not.
That said, please keep in mind that the vast majority of would be murderers are caught after they move from would be status to actual murderer status. Put simply, the police won't do you a damn bit of good if you're dead.
And I for one, would love to own a phaser.
Posted by: DuWayne | December 7, 2008 8:36 PM
if i could own a phaser, i'd... well, actually, i'd probably still have a yearning to collect historical and antique firearms, but i wouldn't rely on them for any practical purposes.
mr. Murray's general idea is good and necessary, but the problem is that paying taxes for a police force only provides general protection. if somebody should choose to attack me or my home, sending in an extra tax check won't serve to protect me from the immediate and specific threat. a pump-action twelve gauge, however, might.
Posted by: Nomen Nescio | December 7, 2008 8:47 PM
In all fairness that was probably a far more effective lesson than teh actual lesson. I feel confident that in 40years time she will remember her dad shooting himself after failing to check his gun properly far more than whatever he said during the *real* lesson.
Posted by: Captain Obvious | December 8, 2008 6:41 AM
All though I am a firm believer in firearm ownership.
they are not ideal for home defense. Buckshot, slugs, and
bullets have the amazing ability to through and through a sheet rock wall and slab a family member.
Your Family is safer with good locks, hinges and a baseball bat.
JS
Posted by: Jscopes | December 8, 2008 7:04 AM
"He did recommend buckshot, but not 00; he said that something smaller would do plenty of damage at close range... He did say that from eight or ten feet away, the business end of a .410 looks like a sewer pipe if it's pointed at you."
The .410 is the same diameter of a .40s&w... not very large. They don't even make buck shot for them, as it would only contain 3-5 pellets. I have #4, 6 & 9 pellets, plus slugs to take of coyotes, fishers & if it ever occurs, a burglar. I also have a .40 Glock, which don't have any safeties, other than common sense. Makes you more aware of what you're doing. Or at least it should!
And this 'little lady' has fun shooting her 3 1/2" slugs from her 12ga. Nothing is more annoying than a patronizing "well, for women, I recommend...", especially since my dad had me shooting 12ga, .45auto, etc when I was 10 yrs old. If they're afraid of the recoil, get em a 20 or 28ga, and go for bird shot if you're afraid of over-penetration of house walls.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/ fun site that shows wall penetration of many different caliber/gun combo's.
Posted by: marlana80 | December 8, 2008 12:01 PM
Paul Murray:
I'm not sure if it's intentional, but you are HILARIOUS!
"As for me, my self-defence is to pay my taxes to a society of laws, that disburses some of that money to maintain a police force and judicial system. Works for me."
I guess the residents of Middletown, Ohio are due for a tax rebate, eh?
Posted by: WEV | December 8, 2008 12:08 PM
Lesson number one for semi-automatics should be, always check the chamber, because there may well be a round in there after you removethe clip. Before that lesson is given, and especially when instructing children, it might not be a bad idea to use something non-lethal like a water pistol or a cap gun before advancing to real semi-automatics. Children are perfectly capable of understanding the illustrative purpose of a substitute gun and the responsible reasons for its use.
Posted by: Jon Lester | December 8, 2008 10:57 PM
I'm am fed up with this cowardice, which passes for adulthood, that is always imagining enemies lurking around constantly. I'm fed up with this attitude that makes the judgment that taking a human life is better than someone stealing your stuff. Get it through your heads: you are not that important that someone wants your shit; get over yourself.
And another thing: this happens to be the time, in all of recorded history, which enjoys by-far the lowest crime rate. It is also a time when people think that 1/10 of one percent of the population being lost to murder is outrageously high. We are a collection of pussies.
Posted by: jws | December 8, 2008 11:05 PM
I'm a national guard soldier. I don't own any handguns. I own one shotgun. EVERYBODY in the world knows the sound of a pump action shotgun being cycled, and it takes about a half second to do it.
Thats assuming that the notional bad guy figures out the code on the alarm system after entering the only entrance in the house that won't set the alarm off automatically. That's after he drives past the police cruisers in my neighborhood (cops in OKC take their rides home) and decides that he's cool robbing a neighborhood with a bunch of officers in it.
That's why I don't load my shotgun.
Posted by: soonergrunt | December 8, 2008 11:07 PM
was he wearing sweat pants, "in da club" when it happened?
Genius.
Posted by: JustJoeP | December 8, 2008 11:40 PM
Can he still reproduce ? If not, he didn't shoot well enough. Darwinism misses sometimes, too.
Posted by: Bob | December 9, 2008 3:48 PM
For Home Defense I prefer the 16-ton weight dangling over the perp's head. Got the idea from a Road Runner's episode.
Posted by: Sam Thornton | December 12, 2008 10:03 AM