Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
Would it surprise you to find out that Ann Coulter includes a bushel of lies in her new book? I would certainly hope not. Media Matters documents a whole bunch of them. And you have to listen to Sean Hannity's fawning, sycophantic interview with Coulter where her fake persecution complex is in full cry, as she claims that "liberals are always pretending that they're being victimized, oppressed by right wingers and fascists and frat boys with rich daddies" - while simultaneously pretending to be victimized by the media that ignores her AND simultaneously promoting her appearance on the CBS morning show the next day. Irony meters just aren't strong enough to withstand the blow of a woman who calls presidential candidates "faggots" and then calls the media an "attack machine" that "smears" people.
You also have to see this Worldnutdaily article where, as usual, she engages in obvious psychological projection in accusing her critics of doing exactly what she's doing:
"These people pretend to be victims in order to advance, attack, and oppress others."
Stunning, but hardly surprising. What a loathsome fraud.
Politics
Comments
One has to be amused by the chutzpa of Ms (Mr) Coulter, the hermaphrodite, who bashes gays while promoting the website of closet gay Matt Drudge.
Posted by: SLC | January 7, 2009 10:08 AM
One also has to be amused by Ms (Mr) Coulters' claims of religiosity, considering that, in her first book, she bragged about liking to get laid on the first date.
Posted by: SLC | January 7, 2009 10:11 AM
Speaking from personal experience? Was there a second date?
I mean really, if you're trying to insult her as least use something that's an actual insult.
Posted by: Abby Normal | January 7, 2009 10:41 AM
So *yawn* ... Coulter releases book, people get "outraged", and Coulter makes a lot of money.
She is an entertainer so I have a hard time getting worked up about her. Same with Limbaugh (his stupid brother on the other hand). She doesn't change anyone's mind with her arguments. She just panders and gets rich off people who already agree with her.
Posted by: yoshi | January 7, 2009 10:43 AM
Next, she will claim that the Jews pretended to be victims in order to oppress the Nazis.
Posted by: (((Billy))) The Atheist | January 7, 2009 10:46 AM
She is an entertainer so I have a hard time getting worked up about her.
Good point. Coulter is acting no different than the typical professional wrestler; she is simply playing the role of the heel and drawing the heat while getting paid well for the effort.
Why any media outlet outside of Fox News gives her any free air time to promote her garbage is beyond me.
Posted by: Engr Tony | January 7, 2009 11:10 AM
> she is simply playing the role of the heel and drawing the
> heat while getting paid well for the effort.
This is what I've always thought while wondering how much of what she says she actually believes rather than just says for the money.
However, after enough years saying the same foul rubbish some of it is going to sync in...
Posted by: David Durant | January 7, 2009 11:27 AM
She is an entertainer so I have a hard time getting worked up about her.
I hate this argument for two reasons:
1) It's demeaning to entertainers.
2) It's used as an excuse by her and her supporters whenever something she says blows up in her face.
If Limbaugh and Coulter really were only entertainers, the world would be a much better place for it.
Posted by: tacitus | January 7, 2009 11:30 AM
I agree that she's loathsome, but by the same token, we're playing right into her game plan by paying attention to her, thus legitimizing her to some extent. As for media attention--well, mainstream media are a bunch of whores, so can we expect any better?
Posted by: gary l. day | January 7, 2009 11:38 AM
Coulter: The most successful troll ever. There is no way in hell she believes even half of the stuff she says. She realized a long time ago that the best way to make money on the world of talking heads is to be as inflammatory as possible. The Conservatives will laugh at her and buy all her books. The Liberals will throw a fit, which gives her even more publicity. The only way to win against someone like this is to not play her game.
Posted by: Iason Ouabache | January 7, 2009 11:40 AM
There is one very important difference: In wrestling, everyone recognizes who the villain is. But a significant number of people think that Coulter is the Good Guy.
~David D.G.
Posted by: David D.G. | January 7, 2009 11:42 AM
Yoshi--
I object to this common premise. Coulter is not an entertainer, she's a propagandist who falls back on the entertainment line whenever her comments get her in hot water. I agree that she's not someone to be taken seriously, but the fact that many people do is quite troublesome.
SLC--
I'm sorry, but this type of insult is little different from the ones leveled by Coulter and company. Can you not see the blatant immaturity and misogyny inherent in calling "Mr." Coulter a hermaphrodite? Please tell me how that's different from Coulter calling John Edwards a "faggot."
Posted by: Sadie Morrison | January 7, 2009 11:44 AM
SLC, the ideas that *nn C**lt*r stands for are repulsive. Being transgendered or a hermaphrodite is not. (In fact, they are different things.) It is possible to thrash her ideas without engaging in any of this slimy gay bating.
Or do you really want to make use of her dishonest tactics?
Posted by: Janine | January 7, 2009 11:56 AM
Which is ironic because if you look at certain Ann Coulter quotes, and certain Hitler quotes, the big difference is that Hitler was a lot more articulate.
Posted by: Azkyroth | January 7, 2009 12:07 PM
Not that I agree with much of what Ann Coulter says but the way she used the word "faggot" was consistent with the context of my high school days. It does not (necessarily) mean gay.
When I was the new (I had the misfortune of attending four different high schools) bean pole kid the preferred taunt of bullies was "faggot".
While the insult did not exclude the possibility of the recipient being a homosexual it was not contingent on it either. As Coulter says it was more consistent with the word "wuss" or "pussy". Neither of which connote homosexuality.
That being said I can understand the sensitivity of gay people to the word based on its more long-standing definition and that doesn't even get to the point of why Coulter thinks a schoolyard taunt is an appropriate criticism of a presidential candidate.
Posted by: Lance | January 7, 2009 12:10 PM
There is one very important difference: In wrestling, everyone recognizes who the villain is.
Not always; in wrestling the heels often have a fairly decent fan-following.
Posted by: Engr Tony | January 7, 2009 12:11 PM
It boggles my mind that Ann Coulter was ever given air time after her Tim McVeigh "joke" ("My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building.")
There's a video clip of an interview she did on the BBC for her previous book, where the presenter read a few passages and asked a polite version of "You don't actually believe this shit, do you?" Her expression was priceless. Unfortunately I can't access YouTube at the moment.
Posted by: Pieter B | January 7, 2009 12:12 PM
Sorry but I feel I must intervene.
I don't know Ann Coulter personally, but I gather that, having been born male, had hormone treatment and gender reassignment surgery (after extensive counselling and so on) to become a woman. I don't know the extent of the reassignment.
Having said that:
a) A hermaphrodite has both male and female gonads and reproductive organs, but Transgender persons don't, generally
b) calling someone 'a hermaphrodite' is not 'misogynistic' since hermaphrodites are not female, but both male and female
c) calling someone 'a hermaphrodite' is not "slimy gay bating" since hermaphrodites may or may not be one sex or the other. Who they love is, therefore, not a determinate of their sexual orientation.
Let's not get mired in semantics (he said, getting mired in semantics), Ann Coulter's dishonest utterances is the issue. Not to put to fine a point on it I don't think she can lie straight in bed. The fact she was once considered 'a man' and in now considered 'a women' is nearly as irrelevant as her opinions, what riles me her complete dishonesty -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | January 7, 2009 12:28 PM
I think that her and O'Reilly know what they say isn't true. They pander to the far right, serving them stories of 'ACLU hates Jesus' and 'Gays will destroy society' - not believing a word of it but with full knowledge that there is an under-served non-reality based community that wants 'news' as well.
Posted by: Rich | January 7, 2009 12:29 PM
Re Abby Normal, Sadie Morrison, & Janine
1. Have any of you folks seen Mr (Mr) Coulters' adams apple? Women don't have adams apples like that.
2. Hermaphrodites are not homosexuals. They are born with the sex organs of both sexes and with 2 X chromosomes and 1 Y chromosome. Generally, when they are born and the dual sexuality is detected, the physician performs what is euphemistically called sex reassignment surgery. However, genetics doesn't change and they are still hermaphrodites.
Posted by: SLC | January 7, 2009 12:34 PM
Ann Coulter is a piece of shit.
Posted by: democommie | January 7, 2009 12:37 PM
I don't pay much attention to Coulter. But I caught on to her act when a few years ago she said some incredibly inflammatory things about the 9/11 widows, and it just so happened to be days before her next book came out. It was pretty easy to see that she was playing everybody.
Posted by: steve s | January 7, 2009 12:37 PM
Umm.. XXY is Klinefelter's Syndrome, and although they show some gynomorphism, it is NOT synonymous with hermaphroditism.
Round worms are hermaphroditic, as are Casuarinas (and many other flowering planets). The term has an actual scientific meaning, having the SEXUAL ORGANS of BOTH SEXES in one individual. Again, this is a irrelavant digression - DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | January 7, 2009 12:45 PM
@SLC [Hermaphrodites] are born with the sex organs of both sexes and with 2 X chromosomes and 1 Y chromosome.
Nope. People who are XXY have Kleinfelter's Syndrome. They are phenotypically male and do not have sex organs of both sexes, thoughthey may have small testes an sparse body hair. And what does any of this have to do with Ms. Coulter's political views?
Posted by: DougT | January 7, 2009 12:46 PM
. . .there is an under-served non-reality based community that wants 'news' as well.
"News," or validation, or both! Thanks Rich.
Posted by: DonZilla | January 7, 2009 12:59 PM
DingoJack:
Wow! You got flowering planets down there in Australia? Up here in the North hemisphere we have to send spacecrafts out to find planets. And don't none of them have flowers.
(This post may seem off-topic, but in reality it is carefully arranged to give A.C. exactly the attention she deserves.)
Posted by: Johnny Vector | January 7, 2009 1:01 PM
I doubt very much that Ann Coulter would either benefit, or suffer consequences from comments made on this blog. It's like preaching to the choir.
I say, go ahead in insult her all you like, you'll never change the minds of her ilk and it feels pretty good to take a swing at some asshole who swings at you.
Posted by: JED | January 7, 2009 1:11 PM
SLC, the point I was making is that you appear to be using it purely as smear against her, like you were calling her a freak. I say this because you made no attempt to show how it's relevant in any way. Hermaphrodites and people born with ambiguous genitalia are not freaks. They struggle enough, including the forced gender assignment surgery you mention, without people using it like it's some kind of negative.
Posted by: Abby Normal | January 7, 2009 1:14 PM
Re DingoJack & DougT
I didn't say it was synonymous. I said that hermaphrodites have 2 X and 1 Y chromosome. Mr. DingoJack and Mr. DougT are saying that not all individuals having this condition are hermaphrodites. Point taken.
Posted by: SLC | January 7, 2009 1:14 PM
" "News," or validation, or both!"
Well, Fox News sounds better than Fox validation.
Murdoch spots market opportunities and knows he's in the entertainment biz. I suspect he doesn't buy into the ideology at all:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcalderone/1108/Wolff_Murdoch_absolutely_despises_OReilly_.html
Posted by: Rich | January 7, 2009 1:18 PM
Does this mean her jaw isn't wired shut anymore?
Posted by: Brandon | January 7, 2009 1:29 PM
SLC- But the point is taken incorrectly. I'm not saying that not all individuals with Kleinfelters are what you are calling a hermaphrodite. None of them are. Please visit the link I posted above. Individuals with Kleinfelters are phenotypically male. Not some of them- all of them.
Posted by: DougT | January 7, 2009 1:45 PM
1. Have any of you folks seen Mr (Mr) Coulters' adams apple? Women don't have adams apples like that.
Posted by: SLC
Even if *nn C**lt*r were a transsexual, how does that play into her ravings? Is being transsexual something that is wrong and must be attacked? Is this something that is easier to attack that her ideas? Please, explain.
Posted by: Janine | January 7, 2009 1:45 PM
Point obviously not taken, because almost all hermaphrodites don't have 2 X and 1 Y chromosome. Klinefelter's syndrome makes up a small subset of hermaphrodism cases.
And this is a much more fruitful topic than the one posited by our host. Best. Thread hijack. Ever.
Posted by: Shygetz | January 7, 2009 1:47 PM
Re DougT
Fair enough. Is Mr. DougT saying that hermaphrodites do not have a Y chromosome?
Posted by: SLC | January 7, 2009 1:50 PM
Ed:
Irony meters just aren't strong enough to withstand the blow of a woman who calls presidential candidates "faggots" and then calls the media an "attack machine" that "smears" people.
That "faggot" statement of hers was uttered about a guy who got into hot water publically for cheating on his terminally ill wife with - shock! - another woman, BTW.
She can't even get her choice of insults straight.
Posted by: Chris Krolczyk | January 7, 2009 1:52 PM
c) calling someone 'a hermaphrodite' is not "slimy gay bating" since hermaphrodites may or may not be one sex or the other. Who they love is, therefore, not a determinate of their sexual orientation.
Posted by: DingoJack
I called it that because in the minds of the troglodytes that takes *nn C**lt*r seriously, any deviate from a straight male/female set up is gay. They do not see the difference between cross dressing, SRS and being intersexed. SLC is engaging in this game.
Posted by: Janine | January 7, 2009 1:53 PM
@SLC- I am not. You made the specfic statement that people with an XXY karyotype were hermaphrodites. A very different statement from merely having a Y chromosome. I can speak with a little bit of authority on Kleinfelter's, as I used to develop diagnostic tests that were applicable to it (among other things). I was therefore up on the literature, though that was over a decade ago. I don't know enough about the biology of the various states of intersex to speak (or type) intelligently on that much broader topic.
Posted by: DougT | January 7, 2009 1:57 PM
Janine:
Even if *nn C**lt*r were a transsexual, how does that play into her ravings? Is being transsexual something that is wrong and must be attacked? Is this something that is easier to attack that her ideas? Please, explain.
I think this insult is intended to contradict the impression that Attila the C. apparently considers herself the height of incredibly sexy womanhood; judging by the amount of book covers she's posed for where she's worn a little black dress to prove it, this isn't entirely inaccurate.
OTOH, referring to her as a mean fascist drunk skirts that issue nicely while remaining entirely accurate.
Posted by: Chris Krolczyk | January 7, 2009 1:59 PM
If one lies, but has no morality (or sense) at all and is therefore incapable of discerning facts (or truth) from fiction, are they indeed lies?
Coulter falls into that category of Yoo and Bolton, utterly incapable of deception due to their complete lack of empathy for other humans. As sociopaths of the highest order these people cannot lie as they cannot see beyond their own skin. The insane (criminal or not) do not deserve scorn, they need to be isolated from society to prevent them from harming themselves and us.
Posted by: Onkel Bob | January 7, 2009 2:06 PM
By giving cranks like Coulter a platform to spew their venom, the networks gave lost whatever credibility they ever had, and are just as bad as she is.
Posted by: Raymond Minton | January 7, 2009 2:15 PM
My point, SLC, is that you were clearly referring to Coulter as "Mr." (and a hermaphrodite) in order to insult her. And as others have already said, why insult her in such a way (note that I'm not advocating that Ann Coulter should not be insulted; far from it)? Why not focus on the despicable things she's said, and her despicable character, than on physical traits which she cannot help? Do you uniformly regard women who have masculine physical traits as freaks? Or just those with whom you disagree politically?
Posted by: Sadie Morrison | January 7, 2009 2:29 PM
Coulter is not stupid, but from her writing, one could easily conclude that she thinks here readers are. But, she's in the business of selling books, and as long as there's a strong market of buyers that will purchase such tripe,--whether because they believe it, or because they find her writing entertaining--she will remain in the news and on the "news" shows.
Posted by: James Stripes | January 7, 2009 2:41 PM
I am thankful and pleased that so many people have spoken up about the comments about Ann Coulter's gender, femininity or appearance.
Posted by: MomTFH | January 7, 2009 2:59 PM
I think that Al Franken said it all during a 10 Questions with TIME magazine:
Posted by: Troublesome Frog | January 7, 2009 3:15 PM
If we're defining "hermaphrodite" in the colloquial sense of "intersexed", then some do, some don't (as far as I know, there are no true human "hermaphrodites" with fully functioning male and female sex characteristics; the human body plan just won't support it). There are many, many different causes of intersex symptoms, and only some of them require the presence of a Y chromosome. For example, congenital adrenal hyperplasia caused by 21-hydroxylase activity inactivation caused genital ambiguity in XX, but not XY, karyotypes.
Posted by: Shygetz | January 7, 2009 3:16 PM
What's with the technical jargon? What do you think this is, a science blo... carry on.
Posted by: Abby Normal | January 7, 2009 3:25 PM
Re Shygetz
A long time ago, I read about a man who started bleeding once a month out of his rear after he turned 13. As xrays didn't exist at the time, this was not diagnosed and he otherwise seemed normal. This continued into his early 40s. In the interim, he had married and had fathered children. After his death, an autopsy was performed and it was discovered that he had fully functional ovaries and a uterus, with a birth canal emptying into the large intestine. Of course, this all happened before the discovery of DNA and chromosomes so I have no idea as to his genetic makeup. It would appear, however, that he was fully functional as both a male and female as he apparently menstruated once a month and also produced sperm. Possibly, this is a vary rare situation that is not typical of most hermaphrodites.
Posted by: SLC | January 7, 2009 3:35 PM
Can we please drop all the Mann Coulter-esque slams? It's too easy, and
If you want to go after her looks, try "Skeletor". No one can complain about being compared to a cartoon villain. Well, cartoons can't.
Posted by: Anonymous | January 7, 2009 4:43 PM
Hey now!
Posted by: Skeletor | January 7, 2009 4:58 PM
Having several transgender friends and a friend with Kleinfelter's, I take exception to your comments in this context. There are plenty of things to hammer Coulter about, without resorting to supposed insults that denigrate people with very real issues that are invariably extremely traumatic.
To whit, the reason I found out that my friend with Kleinfelters, was after he attempted suicide, only to become a vegetable. I also was living with a very dear friend when she went through with her operation and spent many an hour getting my shirt soaked with her tears, while she went through post operative, clinical depression.
What you are trying to use as a casual insult is anything but. I could honestly care less whether Coulter is intersexed or transgender. While being such certainly doesn't absolve her of responsibility for being such a fucking vile person, it is in no way a denigration either. All that throwing that around in this context accomplishes, is to denigrate other intersexed or transpeople.
Posted by: DuWayne | January 7, 2009 5:23 PM
Here is a free suggestion to the next reporter who interviews Coulter: when she starts to go off about how the left hates "people of faith" ask her where she goes to church.
Posted by: Chris | January 7, 2009 5:31 PM
Oops, I just realized that I failed to mention that my last comment was intended for SLC. Sorry.
Posted by: DuWayne | January 7, 2009 5:35 PM
Yet another Chris wrote:
Here is a free suggestion to the next reporter who interviews Coulter: when she starts to go off about how the left hates "people of faith" ask her where she goes to church.
Better yet, ask her who she dates.
Methinks one of them was an Arab. And a Muslim at that, yet.
See, it's okay if she does it, but us purported Leftoliberavolusionists can't. So there. Nyaaaaah.
Posted by: Chris Krolczyk | January 7, 2009 6:21 PM
And as Obi Wan said, who's the greater fool? The fool who leads or the fool who follows?
I find Coulter to be about as reasonable as Bill Maher, although Bill Maher is at least often right.
Posted by: BaldApe | January 7, 2009 6:54 PM
Patience, people.
Enjoy the spectacle of her s-l-o-w-l-y imploding over the next decade, as her need to top each previous display of nastiness approaches some neuroemotional event horizon, her fan base shrinks to diddly-squat (and all idiots--as even Coulter is surely aware), and her looks do what most smokers' and boozehounds' looks do around that age.
You know those people who say they're quitting public life to spend more time with their families? They've actually got families. Coulter doesn't--nor has she another career, hobby, love interest, cause, dog, anything. Emotionally and intellectually, being a public hater of liberals is all she has to sustain her. So she's not going to retire to private life. Her self-destruction will be exquisitely visible to anyone who chooses to look.
Just abide, folks.
Posted by: Molly, NYC | January 7, 2009 6:56 PM
Ann Coulter is a piece of shit.
Hey, hey, hey, don't go overboard here with insults, shit serves a useful purpose.
Posted by: dogmeatib | January 7, 2009 6:57 PM
Coulter Uses No Tact. And I really mean that, Annie.
Posted by: Ken McKnight | January 7, 2009 7:04 PM
Ann Coulter is trangender?
Source?
Posted by: SharonB | January 7, 2009 7:36 PM
In all seriousness, during her interview with Harry Smith on CBS this week, Coulter was so defensive and emotionally flustered that I wondered if she wasn't going to hyperventilate.
And it's hardly as if Mr. Smith was going after Ann with steak knives during their conversation.
She is very odd.
Posted by: CHV | January 7, 2009 7:49 PM
1. A number of commentors have called me to task for using the term hermaphrodite as an object of opprobrium. Point taken, won't do it again.
2. Re Sharon B. M. Coulter has a very prominent adams apple which is seldom seen on women. Based on this, there have been a number of speculations as to whether she is really a he.
Posted by: SLC | January 7, 2009 8:00 PM
"Coulter is not stupid,..."
if you check out her views on evolution in her last book you would defintely say "She is Stupid"
also she is a fan of the Bigot Bible "The Bell Curve"
Posted by: richCares | January 7, 2009 9:39 PM
Posted by: llewelly | January 7, 2009 11:06 PM
Johnny Vector opined:
Up there you just can't stop and apprciate the flowers, man ;P
[see what happens when you type tired, boys and girls].
Shakespeare has already seen Ann Coulter's future:
BANQUO: ...What are these, so withered and so wild in thier attire; that look not like the inhabitants o' the Earth, yet are on't? Live you, or are you aught that man may question?
You seem to understand me, by each at once her choppy finger laying upon her skinny lips; -you should be women, and yet your beards forbid me to interpret that you are so.
Posted by: DingoJack | January 7, 2009 11:23 PM
"Mo-om! He hit me back! And I didn't do anything to him!"
Posted by: Azkyroth | January 8, 2009 12:07 AM
Ye gods! Ms. Coulter(or whoever or whatever s/he is) has another book out????? S/he sure has a lot of gall. A lot more gall than I would have credited him/her with.
Anne G
Posted by: Anne Gilbert | January 8, 2009 12:55 AM
Now that's good. Fits well too.
Posted by: JED | January 8, 2009 2:01 AM
Some people on this thread expressed the opinion that Coulter's popularity is wearing out. Does anyone know a website where we can measure total book sales? That would serve to help validate this argument if her sales are in fact on a steep decline.
Coulter is such a target rich environment regarding the merits of her arguments that I would argue it's unwise for her opponents to attack her in ways that allows blowback, e.g., her sex, sexual orientation or physical appearance. Having said that, I wouldn't do her. ;)
Posted by: Michael Heath | January 8, 2009 9:11 AM
Michael Heath:
"Having said that, I wouldn't do her. ;)"
But, but, Ann's got legs that go all the way up to heris--whoops, my bad.
The truth is Coulter is a lying hack who would be a minor footnote in the history of "journalism" except that her audience relies on her venomous diatribes to excuse the fuckbaggery of the extreme notright.
Posted by: democommie | January 8, 2009 10:31 AM
"If you want to go after her looks, try "Skeletor"."
What... no screams of outrage or condescending lectures from affronted anorexia nervosa advocates?
Anorexia nervosa is a severe, life-threatening disorder whose victims suffer terrible and undeserved social stigma as further injury to the multifactorial organ insult secondary to the disease.
How DARE any of you here on this thread let such a thing pass!!! You should never never never enjoy a moment of humor if it can possibly be ginned up as a real insult to any group or individual. What were you all thinking?
Posted by: Gingerbaker | January 8, 2009 10:56 AM
Here's the thing about Ann Coulter (and I got yelled at on Pandagon for saying this) -- you can take whatever cheap shots you want at her, as long as they're relevant. Sexist snark is appropriate for her (but not necessarily anyone else) because she's an antifeminist who takes full advantages of the freedoms that feminism built for women, but the transphobic comments are just plain rude. Fight dirty, but fight dirty with the truth.
Posted by: Brian X | January 8, 2009 11:33 AM
"but the transphobic comments are just plain rude"
Rudeness is not allowed here? 3/4's of the comments would need to be deleted. And 9/10's of all comedy standup would have to be censored.
Or is rudeness allowed if it is snarky enough but not funny? Or perhaps as long as it is only directed to outgroup entities, which seems a lot more true to the mark.
mroberts, who has outsider views, for example, can be called anything under the sun, and that is OK under the tacit rules of blogdom, but woe unto SLC for making a joke about AC which involves a politically incorrect reference.
Assuming that Poles are 'allowed' to make Polish jokes, and it is politically correct only for blacks to call each other 'nigger', would it be OK for SLC to use "Mr Coulter" as a jest if, indeed, he was transgender himself? Would any one risk a politically-incorrect self-implosion by daring to correct, say, a hermaphrodite from cracking a cross dressing joke?
Or am I not playing the Internet Forum snarky Condescension Game correctly?
Posted by: Gingerbaker | January 8, 2009 12:33 PM
Gingerbaker:
Now I feel like some idiot whose PR people have to insist they've been misinterpreted.
No, it was a bad choice of words, especially given that it contradicts my general point. Essentially what I'm saying is that the transphobic comments are inappropriate, because Coulter is not TV/TS and to the extent it's part of her public persona, it's as a manifestation of her general raging right-wing homophobia. If she made a special point of being anti TV/TS, then it would be appropriate, but I don't get the impression she singles them out as anything other than her idea of "sexual deviants". I'm sure there are people for whom the transphobic jokes are appropriate, but none of them are as high-profile as Coulter or I'd be able to think of one.
Posted by: Brian X | January 8, 2009 12:51 PM
-- you can take whatever cheap shots you want at her, as long as they're relevant. Sexist snark is appropriate for her (but not necessarily anyone else) because she's an antifeminist who takes full advantages of the freedoms that feminism built for women,
No, you can't. Sexist snark takes all women as collateral damage, because it assumes that being a woman/trans/etc. is bad. If there's no assumption of badness, it falls entirely flat. It would be like saying "Hey, she's blue!" To make a sexist dig is to approve of sexism no matter who it's aimed at.
Posted by: Carlie | January 8, 2009 1:04 PM
Ann Coulter makes money by pandering to bigots. The sorts of bigots who might, for example, harass or make disparaging remarks about transgender folks.
Now I've seen no citations or actual evidence aside from the adam's apple that she's transgender, but if it's true, I think it's totally fair game not as an insult, but simply as a true fact (hopefully a true fact that will help to alienate her from her audience).
Posted by: Dan L. | January 8, 2009 1:31 PM
I took SLC's comment not as a jest, but as a smear. Joking around about someone's race, sex, orientation, nationality, or whatever, I have no problem with. Using them as to demean or as ad hominem attack is the line I felt was crossed. It has nothing to do with whether or not SLC is trans.
Further, I'm sick and tired of strong, assertive women being labeled as somehow not women. It's as if women are supposed to be weak and docile. But if they stand up and speak out they're manly. I objected when it was done to Hillary and I objected now when it was done to Anne.
Incidentally I've also spoken up in defense of mroberts when he's been on the receiving end of such attacks. So I don't agree anything goes there either.
Posted by: Abby Normal | January 8, 2009 1:33 PM
It is impossible to judge Talibann Psychoultergeist's popularity or the dwindling thereof, since all of her books have consistently been bought in bulk by wingnut thinktanks, then given away for pennies as subscription bonuses to 26-percenter dead-ender rags like National Review.
Posted by: TTT | January 8, 2009 2:12 PM
"Further, I'm sick and tired of strong, assertive women being labeled as somehow not women. It's as if women are supposed to be weak and docile. But if they stand up and speak out they're manly."
Well, standing up and speaking out is supposed to be the manly thing to do. I thought that was a good thing. Oh... I see, you meant 'manly' as a pejorative term. ( I'm hearing perhaps it is OK for a man to show his feminine side, but not the reverse?)
I guess I still don't get this humor/nonhumor line in the sand after all! :D I'm going off now to brood about the unpardonable slur against manhood still ringing in my ears. ;D
Posted by: Gingerbaker | January 8, 2009 3:08 PM
I think that snark about Ms. Skeletor's appearance is fair comment, since she capitalizes on her "hawt factor" to deliver her message to the drooling hordes. I do think that "tranny" and "hermaphrodite" jokes should be off-limits, since they are hurtful to people other than Ms. Coulter.
I don't think that Coulter is being singled out as "manly" because she's an outspoken woman. She is being singled out because she is a malevolent idiot.
Posted by: T. Bruce McNeely | January 8, 2009 3:39 PM
She invites it, too.
This morning on Staphanie Miller they played a clip from Lou Dobbs' interview of Ann. Ann basically says that she is currently more manly than anyone in the Republican Party.
Posted by: KeithB | January 8, 2009 3:47 PM
Speaking out is manly? What's next, cooking is woman's work? Are you just messing with me or do you really not see what I'm saying? What I'm mean to communicate is that trying to put a woman down by saying she's manly is something I take exception to. Just as say a man is womanly (or more commonly "girly") as a put down is not right. Courage isn't manly. Caring isn't womanly. Both are admirable traits in everyone.
When someone goes through the process of getting in touch with their other side, masculine or feminine, they're getting in touch with their own feelings, specifically the feelings they've repressed because they're counter to the person's perception of what they're "supposed" to feel. No specific feeling is inherently masculine or feminine. It's all in the mind of the individual. That process of self-discovery is a good thing. But it doesn't make a woman manly or a man womanly because there's really no such thing.
Put another way, getting in touch with your masculine or feminine side is just a stepping-stone to doing away with stupid labels and allowing yourself to accept a more full range of who you are.
Posted by: Abby Normal | January 8, 2009 4:46 PM
When M. Coulter was shown the door over at the National Review, she (he) referred to the folks over there as "girly boys".
Posted by: SLC | January 8, 2009 5:24 PM
She is one horrible person but definitely intriguing and i am really excited to be attending her seminar when she comes to Boston for that speaker series... it's going to be one hell of time-- guaranteed!
I have presale code that i got from my friend if anyone else in interested!
Boston:
http://www.broadwayoffers.com/go.aspx?MD=2001&MC=2009PUNDIT
CODE: 2009PUNDIT
Posted by: Adriana | January 8, 2009 5:42 PM
Posted by: llewelly | January 8, 2009 6:02 PM
T. Bruce McNeely wrote:
I concur. Especially about the Ms. Skeletor part.
She's a nasty ghoul to be sure, but we don't need to insult real people in order to make juvenile jokes about her appearance.
Posted by: Leni | January 8, 2009 7:24 PM
Gingerbaker -
Would it be ok to insultingly call someone a fag? How about accusing someone who is a little tight with their money of acting like a Jew?
Assuming that Poles are 'allowed' to make Polish jokes, and it is politically correct only for blacks to call each other 'nigger', would it be OK for SLC to use "Mr Coulter" as a jest if, indeed, he was transgender himself? Would any one risk a politically-incorrect self-implosion by daring to correct, say, a hermaphrodite from cracking a cross dressing joke?
It's pretty doubtful that anyone from one of the aforementioned groups would use that identifier as a slur against someone. Do they make jokes about it? Sure. Indeed, I've joined in the jest on occasion with my queer friends.
And for that matter, I've referred to many of my old neighbors as nigger, because that's their preference - they mock people who call them African-Americans, though they'll put up with black from strangers. But if you started derisively ranting about niggers in front of them, you're likely to get your ass beat. The same would be true if you referred to someone doing something you didn't like as niggardly.
Well, standing up and speaking out is supposed to be the manly thing to do. I thought that was a good thing. Oh... I see, you meant 'manly' as a pejorative term. ( I'm hearing perhaps it is OK for a man to show his feminine side, but not the reverse?)
Like hell. Standing up and speaking out is something that some people are good at and others aren't, regardless of gender.
And I don't have a feminine side. Nor am I capable of mothering my children. I am pretty comfortable exploring and talking about my feelings, but that doesn't have anything to do with gender. And I am very good at nurturing and compassionately caring for my children. Doesn't make me any less a father and certainly doesn't make me motherly.
Posted by: DuWayne | January 8, 2009 8:20 PM
Amazing thing... You all seem to hate Ann Coulter and the reason isn't clear..perhaps its just political. You yell and scream about her lies and, yet, to my knowledge no on the left has successfully refuted anything she has written. She is wildly successful as an author...Gee, let me think.. Is there anyone as successful over there on the political left? You lump her in with Limbaugh as though that were a bad thing. Limbaugh is another success story. You lefties need to look in the mirror to see what is wrong with America.
Posted by: Larry Long | January 8, 2009 8:24 PM
Umm, Larry, did you read the Media Matters link? Pretty successful refutation of her lies. And yes, lumping her in with Limbaugh is reasonable, because they are both obnoxious liars. Goto Media Matters and look for a Limbaugh tag for exposure of his lies.
Posted by: DuWayne | January 8, 2009 8:43 PM
Um...except that the word "niggardly" has its roots in an old Germanic term (nyggard). It has nothing etymologically to do with "nigger."
Why do you consider "mothering" to be distinct from caregiving in general? Is there really a substantial difference between the care that a mother is capable of giving (excepting physical realities such as breastfeeding) compared to that of a father? As regards femininity and masculinity, I don't really believe that the concepts are anything other than social constructions. I don't consider myself feminine or masculine in terms of personality.
Posted by: Sadie Morrison | January 8, 2009 8:51 PM
Larry Long, I can't even begin to tell you how wrong you are.
And don't forget, Skeletor (Sorry, Bruce!) is also the genius who so brilliantly and originally blamed the supposed ideological faults of biology on women while forgetting about her own goddamned back yard. Or front yard. Or self. Whatever.
That woman is a nasty, wretched cunt. No two ways about it. And if you think she hasn't been refuted by people on either side, then you are even dumber than she is. At least she's making money.
Posted by: Leni | January 8, 2009 9:21 PM
Sadie -
Regardless of the etymology, the usage of niggardly in slang has a very derogative meaning. I doubt if you used it on the street of my old neighborhood, anyone would take the time to listen to an etymology lecture.
Why do you consider "mothering" to be distinct from caregiving in general?
My point is that I don't.
As regards femininity and masculinity, I don't really believe that the concepts are anything other than social constructions. I don't consider myself feminine or masculine in terms of personality.
Which again, was exactly my point. Did you read beyond the first sentence of that para? I explained that I am very comfortable doing exactly what people usually mean when they talk about a man exploring his feminine side. I also made clear that I am very nurturing to my children (for that matter, with others around me), something that is often referred to as mothering.
My point was that I am those things, but I reject giving them gender identifiers.
Posted by: DuWayne | January 8, 2009 9:23 PM
Larry Long stated:
This tops the Roseanne Barr idiocy hands down. In fact this is right up there with the guy who was posting in this forum the past two days who was convinced by seeing a grainy photograph of a mountain in the Middle East that Noah's Ark was discovered.
Mr. Long - I can't think of any author whose assertions have been so easily discredited by so many, except for maybe creationists and David Barton, but then again, I repeat myself on the former. Media Matters is a good start. Another example is the false assertions she makes about science, evolution, and creationism/ID. Here is a link to six fiskings of what she's published that was simply not true or grossly mischaracterized what we understand and do not understand: http://pandasthumb.org/cgi-bin/mt/mt-search.cgi?IncludeBlogs=2&search=coulter.
Furthermore, one does not have to be a liberal to attack either Coulter or Limbaugh for their proven rank intellectual dishonesty, unless only liberals attack liars. In fact, I'd say your comment post here says more about you than liberals, i.e., you appear perfectly ignorant that there are countless examples of both Coulter and Limbaugh lying, and furthermore you appear to support the notion that its OK if your side lies since you expect only liberals to go after non-liberals.
In defense of a tiny minority of non-conservatives and all honest intellectuals even if they are not liberals, there are many critics of both Coulter and Limbaugh's lack of honesty who are not liberal.
Posted by: Michael Heath | January 8, 2009 9:45 PM
Oh, I don't know about that. At least Larry has merely cut and pasted some generalized rant against "lefties," in support of Coulter and Limbaugh. Stupid and erroneous, yes, but at least Larry is coherent. I defy anyone to make sense of Roseanne's writings. They are so far beyond the realm of sanity there that it would take light years to arrive at her mental state.
Posted by: Sadie Morrison | January 8, 2009 10:17 PM
Larry - "But 'tis strange: and oftentimes, to win us to our harm, the instruments of darkness tell us "truths"; win us with "honest" trifles, to betray us in deepest consequence"* -DJ
*I took a few liberties with Mr Shakespeare's words, but ya get the idea. ;)
Posted by: DingoJack | January 9, 2009 12:48 AM
Sadie wrote:
Which is precisely what makes his arguments all the more atrocious.
He isn't insane. He has no excuse.
Posted by: Leni | January 9, 2009 1:48 AM