Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
The Worldnutdaily is all giddy because a bunch of wingnuts in Georgia got together and formed a "grand jury" to indict President Obama. Seriously.
Georgia resident Carl Swensson, whose work is detailed on his Rise up for America website, told WND he got tired of the issues over Obama's eligibility, as well as his performance in office."I took it upon myself to find as many patriots as I could across the state, for the purpose of seating 25 for a grand jury," he said.
Over the weekend the jurors took sworn testimony from several sources, including Taitz, and then generated an indictment that later was forwarded to the U.S. attorney, the state attorney general and others in law enforcement across the state.
But wait, this story gets better:
He said the members were chosen, sworn in and observed all of the rules of procedure. Swensson declined to elaborate on the specific allegations about Obama, telling WND that remains confidential at this point because of the possibility of a prosecution.
LMAO. Yeah Goober, there's a really good possibility that you bunch of ignorant rubes sitting around having a circle jerk about Obama's birth certificate is going to lead to a real prosecution. I think you should hold your breath until it happens. And who would have guessed that they sell copies of Robert's Rules at the bait shop?
However, the website explanation of the procedure includes some intimidating language."If the government does not amend the error within 40 days after being shown the error, then the four members shall refer the matter to the remainder of the grand jury," it says. "The grand jury may distrain and oppress the government in every way in their power, namely, by taking the homes, lands, possessions, and any way else they can until amends shall have been made according to the sole judgment of the grand jury."
Translation: Ya'll best do as we tells ya or we'uns gonna bust inta ya'lls double wides and steal all yer velvet Elvis paintins and yer bestest Dale Earnhardt t-shirts. Yee haw.
This is great! I think they should hold the trial too. They can hold it in Uncle Elmer's barn right next to the moonshine still. Sheriff Roscoe P. Coltrane can be the bailiff and, aw hell, bring down Joe the Plumber to be the judge.
Politics
Comments
I believe JoeTP is still horny, so we can we expect a penis pump sighting? Make you squeal like a pig.
Posted by: kehrsam | April 2, 2009 9:23 AM
Yet southeners demand that we take them seriously, that they're so radically different from how they "used to be."
Posted by: jws | April 2, 2009 9:25 AM
I had no idea you could just create your own legal system. This is useful information!
I'm think I'm going to convene a grand jury to examine the issue of whether my dinner last night was properly cooked. The fish seemed a little dry.
Justice will be served!
Posted by: unicow | April 2, 2009 9:27 AM
Shall we convene an electronic grand jury to indict Carl Swensson? Let's indict Joseph Farah while we're at it.
Posted by: Dr X | April 2, 2009 9:31 AM
It just had to be in Georgia . You know I've lived here several years now (in GA) and I know its full of crazy people (my neighbors are certainly down the far right crazy train), but I always hoped we were going to move past that some day. I guess it was just wishful thinking, but I really tried to convince myself of it. Oh well, back to building the fortified wall around my house for when they really get crazy...
Posted by: Scott Reese | April 2, 2009 9:33 AM
Patriots? I'm surprised that this sort of treasonous behavior is legal. Patriotic it is not.
I guess at the moment it's "free speech" (that's "free" as in "free of any sanity" rather than "free" as in "free beer") but don't attempts to undermine and usurp the government become criminal treason at some point?
Posted by: Sam C | April 2, 2009 9:33 AM
I bet them 25 patriots is all white fellers.
Posted by: Dr X | April 2, 2009 9:34 AM
To me, that threat sounds like the old "false lein" gambit. We had a tax dodger back in WV who used it to great effect, tying up the courts and his opponents by filing dozens of leins against their property, then trying to collect. It's a bitch to work out legally, especially when the attacker doesn't give a crap about their own status.
Posted by: Ranson | April 2, 2009 9:37 AM
Yeah Goober, there's a really good possibility that you bunch of ignorant rubes sitting around having a circle jerk about Obama's birth certificate is going to lead to a real prosecution.
Dude, the circle-jerk was about Miclelle Obama's bare arms (which are, of course, perfectly legal under the Second Amendment). If you're going to write about uptight-white insanity, you need to at least get the various strains of insanity straight.
Posted by: Raging Bee | April 2, 2009 9:37 AM
All together now: "SUBORNATION TO FALSE MUSTER!!!"
Posted by: Raging Bee | April 2, 2009 9:39 AM
I had no idea you could just create your own legal system.
They didn't create their own so much as they resurrected the Magna Carta. Seriously - they claim their authority emanates from articles 52 and 61 of the M.C., which gives the "barons" the right to depose the king if they can get 25 of them to agree to do so. Then they make the leap that ordinary U.S. citizens are the equivalent of 13th century English nobility (and the President is like the hereditary monarch) and presto! Impeachments backwards-R Us!
Posted by: Alex | April 2, 2009 9:39 AM
I imagine that when this plan fails the members of this "grand jury" will form their own No Obamas club, complete with a secret knock and decoder rings. Saxby Chambliss could then have a tree house built on his property that they can all use as a secret lair. No icky girls allowed though, unless they're incredibly crazy icky girls.
Posted by: Imrryr | April 2, 2009 9:43 AM
Give me a break. You name the state, and I guarantee you that you could find 25 gomers stupid enough to do the same thing. Our stupidity is just at a slightly higher density here.
Posted by: Shygetz | April 2, 2009 9:45 AM
"The grand jury may distrain and oppress the government in every way in their power, namely, by taking the homes, lands, possessions, and any way else they can until amends shall have been made according to the sole judgment of the grand jury."
Did these yobbos just threaten to commit property crimes, and maybe violence too ("anyway else they can"), in support of their political agenda? Wouldn't that be plotting insurrection, or terrorism, or something like that? Off to Gitmo with the lot of 'em -- and send Michelle Bachman along as well.
Posted by: Eamon Knight | April 2, 2009 9:46 AM
No icky girls allowed though, unless they're incredibly crazy icky girls.
Well, that leaves Nasty Grace, Ann Coulter, and Michelle Bachman. And no, I'm NOT gonna write a porno script about that one -- the scenario is too sick even for me, especially since most of the guys would still be fantasizing about Michelle Obama's arms.
Posted by: Raging Bee | April 2, 2009 9:52 AM
-I bet them 25 patriots is all white fellers.-
Damn you beat me to it...i mean really they should just come out and say they are jealous of his tan.
Posted by: Richard Eis | April 2, 2009 10:09 AM
Nullification II: Bubba Got a Gun!
It could star Chuck Norris!
Posted by: dogmeatib | April 2, 2009 10:17 AM
I have a source at the WND. The Georgian Grand Jury of True American Patriots have evidence that President Obama fraudulently obtained the office of the Presidency by claiming to be a human being. Instead they have evidence he's the son of the Georgia Big Foot and a well-known local welfare queen. Here's a photo of dad: http://www.hollywoodgrind.com/tag/mathew-gary-whitton/
Don't mind the text in this link claiming this find is a hoax, that was a mere diversion until they could confirm the Obama / Big Foot DNA link using a modified still behind Billy Joe Bob "Bubba" Reynold's barn.
Posted by: Michael Heath | April 2, 2009 10:21 AM
Definitely check out the Rise Up America link and check out the video. Excellent production values, and the guy is simply on fire!
He sounds quite reasonable. And then you discover the rest of the site. :D
Yup, the problem is The Illuminati and Satan, workin' it hand in hand:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/signs_of_satan.htm
Posted by: Gingerbaker | April 2, 2009 10:29 AM
Well that's good, because the government tends to react very calmly to perceived threats. Waco, Rupy Ridge... But yeah, go ahead an issue a direct threat to the Federal government relating to the President of the United States. That should turn out just great.
Posted by: Chris Berez | April 2, 2009 10:30 AM
I see the Recently Empowered, Democratically Nominated, Enfranchised Christian Knuckledragger's Society (REDNECKS) has been called back into session.
Posted by: Pineyman | April 2, 2009 10:32 AM
YEEHA! We'z indictin' the preznent! Whoz comin wit us?
Posted by: Tunde | April 2, 2009 10:33 AM
I believe this was a common tactic of the old "personal sovereigntry" movement of the 1970s-80s. According to the SPLC its making a bit of a comeback. And as someone mentioned, adherents were fond of placing liens on property as part of their efforts to "oppress" those they found guilty.
Posted by: Savagemutt | April 2, 2009 10:37 AM
I am disappointed by this pervasive anti-redneck bigotry. Why are you stereotyping this 'grand jury' as rednecks? For all you know, this jury could be composed of middle-managers of big box retailers in the Atlanta suburbs. And why is everyone mocking rednecks for their lifestyle? Do you people really care if somebody likes "Dukes of Hazard" and hangs out at the bait shop?
Focus your attacks on this ludicrous "Grand Jury" not on southern hicks. Many hicks would object to being conflated with right-wing survivalists. What is you interest: Protecting yourself from right-wing extremists or waging a culture war?
Posted by: Neal | April 2, 2009 10:44 AM
For some odd reason, I have been looking in on WND fairly often lately. The crazy and the stupid are strong there (as Ed often points out), with no shortage of "patriots" talking tea parties and rebellion. The blog section dedicated to Obama's legitimacy as President has more entries than any other single-topic thread. I have also looked in on the Charlie Daniels Band site and seen the same there: the site is crawling with well-armed christian patriots who are practically champing at the bit to mobilize their militias....
They scare me....
Posted by: Satcomguy | April 2, 2009 10:48 AM
Neal has got to be a poe...
Posted by: MikeMa | April 2, 2009 10:49 AM
These boofheads really think threatening the Government and it's chief officer is a good idea? I'd have thought even REDNECKS would have heard of the RICO Act, The Patriot Act, The FISA Act & etc.
Yep keep up the threats boys, I'm sure the Government won't do a thing - I mean they don't have any legislation that'll allow them to enter your homes and businesses without a warrant, seize your assets & feeze all your accounts (and those of your associates) and lock you up without charge while they're doing it. Nah I'm sure you're perfectly safe. -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | April 2, 2009 11:04 AM
Considering these rednecks think their last treasonous venture was a good thing (and look out how well that worked!), I'm not surprised they think this way. They all wait for the day they can have a nice Southern Confederation of Christian White People. It's a shame that if they ever got it, they'd be a third (or fourth) world nation within days.
Posted by: Badger3k | April 2, 2009 11:08 AM
Have you lost your marbles, Neal? I've lived in GA my entire life, and I can assure you that the terms "hicks", "rednecks", "right-wing survivalists", and "republicans" are all essentially synonynous.
Posted by: peter | April 2, 2009 11:17 AM
[sigh] You mean that ALL the black helicopters are in the shop right now?!?!?!?!
Posted by: natural cynic | April 2, 2009 11:29 AM
Neal stated:
Neal is right that southern rednecks have mainstreamed their ideology, extending even to white retail managers. I think that happened right around the late-19th century and continues even today. Wait, Neal meant something else?!?
Posted by: Michael Heath | April 2, 2009 11:38 AM
I also live in Georgia, amongst the redneck's and hucklebucks. Seriously, I live the southern rural portion of the state. When I walk through a crowd, it is very similar to moses parting the "red sea". 2 points.
1.) All of the commenters here who live in Georgia- Where the hell are you? My dog is sick of me telling him science news and bitching about ass clowns on the right. Besides, a few days ago I swear he was trying to scratch S's wave equation on his dog house wall and that's just wrong.
2.) I have a copy of Roberts Rules of Order, but these bastards can only get it when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
:)
Posted by: SouthernFriedSkeptic | April 2, 2009 11:54 AM
This is offensive. There is no substantive difference between your justification of stereotyping and the justification given by common racists.
People on Scienceblogs love to have a cheap laugh at the expense of the Hee-Haw crowd. Every time somebody in the South makes headlines by being stupid, people trot out their cartoonish stereotypes. Is that what this blog is about? Feeling superior to a bunch of rednecks?
Posted by: Neal | April 2, 2009 12:02 PM
From the article:
As WND has reported on several occasions, none of the so-called "evidence" of Obama's constitutional eligibility produced thus far is beyond reasonable doubt nor as iron-clad as simply producing an authentic birth certificate, something Americans are required to do regularly but the president still refuses to do.
Uh...what?
Posted by: FBI Regional Bureau Chief GORDON COLE!!! | April 2, 2009 12:04 PM
Neal: I agree the Dixie-bashing has got to some quite offensive extremes. Unfortunately, too many Southerners bring the stereotyping on themselves by electing representatives, supporting religious "leaders," and spawning anti-rationalist activists of all stripes, who reinforce the worst stereotypes of the South every time they open their mouths. I'm doing my best as a Virginian to counter all these trends, but I'm just one guy, and the rednex brush me off 'cause I'm from the Northern part of my state.
Posted by: Raging Bee | April 2, 2009 12:14 PM
When they behave like idiots, yes.
Posted by: Sadie Morrison | April 2, 2009 12:15 PM
Neal,
Of course it's offensive.
While there are loons everywhere, the old south has a history elevating the stupidity of it's residents to celebrity status. You may object all you like but it doesn't change the fact that your school systems are (by and large) the worst in the nation, and your voting records are so deeply red that in many counties a democrat doesn't even pony up.
Dover, PA showed just how bad creationists can screw up a school system and the result? Louisiana makes the stupid a state law and the Texass BOE passes creationist language in it's science standards. Not paying attention I guess.
Lots of examples with the GA 'patriots' condemning the president by illegally convening a grand jury and threatening treason. If you think this is smart, educated behavior, you are in the right place.
Posted by: MikeMa | April 2, 2009 12:19 PM
GORDON COLE!!! - Don't you have to show your COLB at every
checkpoint...oops sorry... 'Population control barrier', train station, airport, bus stop and street corner?Oh wait, that's probably 'cause the authoritarian Religious Right-wing aren't in power (yet) ;) DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | April 2, 2009 12:20 PM
I figured something like this would happen sooner or later.
It is considerate of Swensson to provide an interesting distraction, though.
This is what we get for offering a freshly printed, computer generated document for a birth certificate.
It would have been more effective if the document provided looked to be about as old as the person it represents, and contained some form of objective evidence that serves as testimony and witness to the people present, the time, the doctor, etc.
I suppose some folks figure that if one person can rewrite the rules, then anybody can.
One can run on a substitute birth certificate, then another can form a substitute court of law.
Always the second punch that draws the flag, I guess.
Both are wrong.
At least we're holding one side accountable.
Too bad it's not the side with the greater responsibility and higher calling.
Posted by: Thomas | April 2, 2009 12:21 PM
"People on Scienceblogs love to have a cheap laugh at the expense of the Hee-Haw crowd. Every time somebody in the South makes headlines by being stupid, people trot out their cartoonish stereotypes."
Having been born in, having been raised in, and currently living in the DEEP south, I have to say I used to be bothered by those stereotypes thinking they would be generalized and create prejudice toward the "thinking" south- even though I personally railed against the redneck, goober crowd. Then I followed the Dover Trial and realized that hillbilly represents a state of mind, not the minds in a state. :)
And Joe the Plumber is from Ohio. Closer to Michigan than Georgia. ;)
Posted by: SouthernFriedSkeptic | April 2, 2009 12:22 PM
@FBI Regional Bureau Chief GORDON COLE!!!:
WEll, I had to produce a certified copy of my NJ birth certificate when I got my first drivers license in 1988, and again when I moved to CA and had to get a CA DL in 1999.
So I guess you could say that Americans have to produce their birth certificates "regularly"- if they migrate from state to state regularly. This is a criterion that probably doesn't apply to this village-idiot species of wingnut.
Posted by: Ktesibios | April 2, 2009 12:24 PM
What's the over/under on the total number of teeth among these 25 geniuses?
How about chromosomes?
Posted by: Dr. Steve | April 2, 2009 12:27 PM
MikeMa:
As far as Democrats not even ponying up in some counties, while possibly true in some places, many of the areas at the local level still operate under yellow-dog democrat culture. The reasons are abhorrent (Lincoln freed the slaves, so a tradition of not voting Republican was established)and do not contradict your fundamental premise, but for the sake of accuracy I wanted to point this out. This is the basis of the Southern Strategy in which certain Republican leaders took advantage of racist sentiments and through the use of coded language appealed to the "DixieCrat" southerners and managed to convince many to vote Republican in national elections. That has spread to statewide elections, but hasn't quite permeated local, county elections quite so fully.
Despite the Cobb County sticker incident, at least here in GA when our Ed Secretary wanted to replace the word "evolution" with "change over time" in our state standards, there was a loud enough voice of reason to smack that suggestion down before it ever got any steam.
Posted by: SouthernFriedSkeptic | April 2, 2009 12:32 PM
From the Rise Up site's rules for a Grand Jury:
Ok, how do I tell if I'm a "person of Washington" instead of a "citizen of the State of Washington"? Is there a magical pseudo-legal incantation cribbed from the Magna Carta that I can announce to make it so or do I have to have the right secret signs on my birth certificate? Or is it like the Holy Ghost and I'll know I have it when I feel it moving inside me?
Posted by: jpf | April 2, 2009 12:37 PM
jpf: Actually, it is right there in the 14th Amendment. If you're a "people of" you're a "citizen of" the given state, too, unless you're a resident alien or some stripe of diplomat
This is a relic of the argument that the 14th Amendment created a new class of citizens, and so really only applied to black people. As such, it was considered distinctly lesser to the brand of citizenship most whites had always enjoyed. Because they had stars on thars.
Posted by: kehrsam | April 2, 2009 12:51 PM
jpf - If they're not 'citizens of the United States' then what standing do they have to depose the 'king' of the US, let alone the President? I mean if 25 crazies born in Saudi Arabia, but living in the US, can convene a Grand Jury and impeach the President, then Al-Qaeda has a simple legal loophole. -DJ
PS: Would this be considered to be levying war against the United States of America, thereby giving the enemy aid & comfort?
Posted by: DingoJack | April 2, 2009 12:56 PM
Let's be clear here: when you request and obtain an official, authentic birth certificate from the State of Hawaii, what you will receive is a newly printed document generated from computer records. This is not a "substitute" birth certificate; it's the real deal under the law. To deny its validity does not impeach the credibility of Barack Obama but rather the State of Hawaii.
As such it is valid and sufficient as proof of U.S. birth. Obama did not rewrite the rules, and he did not run on a "substitute" birth certificate.
Posted by: DaveL | April 2, 2009 1:07 PM
Anyone else smell burning irony meters?
25 Southerners, who deny that they are citizens, are seeking to impeach a President because he (allegedly) is not a citizen, despite the fact he legally proved he is?
Hmmm... delicious, Southern Fried, irony - DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | April 2, 2009 1:09 PM
SouthernFriedSkeptic,
Thanks for the info. I knew of the yellow dogs but I'm still really stumped at how a whole region can hold a grudge for 140 years. Glad the GA education head got smacked too. I suppose I hope it was a quid pro quo for him rather than an inherent belief. ;)
Posted by: MikeMa | April 2, 2009 1:09 PM
As a professor in Cobb County and a resident of its northern neighbor Cherokee County, I do not take offense to trashing rednecks or to denigrating southern states in general. rednecks are just in the south (you should meet my brother) and Georgia has a lot of stupid leading its governmental establishments. The people here have not completely crawled out of the stupid hole. That doesn't mean everyone in Georgia is stupid (Well, I hope I'm not at any rate) and I can be honest that most of my neighbors are really stuck in crazy land.
Posted by: Scott Reese | April 2, 2009 1:18 PM
This 'argument' is basically "Group X contains few good people so I can legitimately denigrate all members of X." I would expect people who pride themselves on their rationale, analytic, and quantitative capacities to reject such a fallacy for at least the following reasons
1) Nobody ever bothers to quantify the percentage of X that is good.
2) Even if the bigots are right about 95% of all people in X, they are still wrongly categorizing millions of innocent people.
Finally, for what it's worth, I am not from the South. When I was a child I had a penpal in Alabama and I recently discovered she's now at École Polytechnique.
I do, however, like the banjo.
Posted by: Neal | April 2, 2009 1:28 PM
Well, I had to go and make myself stupid right away...
It should read 'Rednecks aren't just in the south...' I guess I have to go pull some teeth now, excuse me.
Posted by: Scott Reese | April 2, 2009 1:28 PM
To expand on DaveL's point, under federal law and the Constitution itself, once Hawai'i certified the document as prima facie evidence of the facts of Obama's birth (including that he was born in Honolulu at a certain time and date), the document is legally the same as a birth certificate everywhere in the USA. The COLB contains everything Obama needs to demonstrate his eligiblity for POTUS except the 14 year residency requirement, but the original birth certificate wouldn't contain that either.
Posted by: W. Kevin VIcklund | April 2, 2009 1:35 PM
WEll, I had to produce a certified copy of my NJ birth certificate when I got my first drivers license in 1988, and again when I moved to CA and had to get a CA DL in 1999.
Well, sure--I've been required to show my COLB for various purposes, but I took issue with the "required to regularly provide" phrasing. Makes it sound like (as DingoJack said) you're required to just have the thing on you to display upon demand.
Then, too--isn't the objection a lot of these idiots raise re. Obama based on his not having provided an ORIGINAL certificate, or something? (I mean, half the clients I've represented in matters requiring birth certificates end up getting certified copies from the vital stats department of wherever they're from...it's not really much of an issue.)
Or maybe they mean "regularly" in the sense that "Americans"--as opposed to "Obama"--are required to produce a COLB when they run for President. (I have no idea if that's even true, and to what extent any other president has been asked to document his birthplace during the course of a campaign. Actually, weren't some of these nutcases also objecting to McCain's candidacy for more or less the same reason [McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, so he's not a natural born citizen, blablabla].)
Posted by: FBI Regional Bureau Chief GORDON COLE!!! | April 2, 2009 1:40 PM
To expand on DaveL's point, under federal law and the Constitution itself, once Hawai'i certified the document as prima facie evidence of the facts of Obama's birth (including that he was born in Honolulu at a certain time and date), the document is legally the same as a birth certificate everywhere in the USA.
OK--that's what I was getting at with my last post. States issue "certified copies" of birth certificates all the time, and they carry the same weight of authenticity that the original thing they stamp your footprints on has.
Posted by: FBI Regional Bureau Chief GORDON COLE!!! | April 2, 2009 1:43 PM
If I'm not mistaken, isn't it the case that the original remains in the possession of the state and anything in the possession of a private individual is at best a certified copy, including any dog-eared old document that's been in your family records since you were an infant?
Posted by: DaveL | April 2, 2009 1:46 PM
MikeMa:
" I knew of the yellow dogs but I'm still really stumped at how a whole region can hold a grudge for 140 years. Glad the GA education head got smacked too. I suppose I hope it was a quid pro quo for him rather than an inherent belief. ;)"
It's the whole losing the war, regional low self-esteem thing. Think about it- the early reconstruction concessions were pretty severe in the eyes of southerners. You had "carpetbaggers" taking advantage of the situation, families destroyed with no victory for consolation, the death of large numbers of able bodied individuals in a region which had an economy more labor intensive than knowledge intensive. In Germany, it led to Nazis. Since reconstruction eased and the South was able to reestablish a position of acceptance and authority in the nation, it didn't necessarily go that far. If allies had eased German concessions prior to Hitler's rise, perhaps WWII would have been avoided but Germany would have a population permeated with widespread anti-jewish sentiment and anti-allied resentment, similar to racism in the south.
The Ed Secretary was a woman. I met her. Didn't strike me as particularly capable. But then, very few in our state government have. At least we haven't investigated Richard Dawkins. I guess having a couple of good schools (GA Tech, Emory University, UGA) and the CDC, along with a large urban area like Atlanta, keeps enough intelligentsia in the mix here to keep things from going all the way down the rabbit hole. Other southern states may lack the metropolitan element which seems to attract more free thinking individuals, or some of the higher rated colleges like Emory and GA Tech. Texas, however, has no excuse. It's like a magnet for assclowns. I feel for the Austin Atheists.
Posted by: SouthernFriedSkeptic | April 2, 2009 1:47 PM
Thomas: This is what we get for offering a freshly printed, computer generated document for a birth certificate.
It would have been more effective if the document provided looked to be about as old as the person it represents, and contained some form of objective evidence that serves as testimony and witness to the people present, the time, the doctor, etc.
Well, I'm not sure how many natural born US citizens would be able to become President under those conditions. You see, I don't have this kind of documentation. In order to get my passport, I had to go to the state office building in my home town, and I was given a freshly printed computer generated document. And that was sufficient.
Posted by: Chiroptera | April 2, 2009 1:48 PM
If I'm not mistaken, isn't it the case that the original remains in the possession of the state and anything in the possession of a private individual is at best a certified copy, including any dog-eared old document that's been in your family records since you were an infant?
Yes, I believe so. I think you stated it correctly above--the "certified copy" is more accurately described as a printout describing whatever proof of birth the state has at its disposal (which the state certifies to be accurate), than an actual "copy" of a document.
Yeah, the dog-eared original birth certificate I've got buried in a filing cabinet isn't what I'd get if I were to call up vital stats and ask for a "copy of a birth certificate." Hell, that original certificate was written by hand--it doesn't really look that "official."
Posted by: FBI Regional Bureau Chief GORDON COLE!!! | April 2, 2009 1:52 PM
Posted by: llewelly | April 2, 2009 1:53 PM
Neal,
I love the banjo too. And bagpipes.
Glad your penpal friend got out! BTW, ecole is often a crossword answer.
I have no way to answer you percentage of X question. For good or ill, most groups take on the character of their loudest members. The GOP sounds more and more like a back-woods revival tent. The south often sounds like that too. Right now the south sounds a little like treasonous loons owing to the GA goon squad. The fact that this reinforces the stereotype rather than contradicts it is unfortunate but not unexpected.
Posted by: MikeMa | April 2, 2009 1:55 PM
More importantly, what you'd get if you called up vital stats and demanded they hand over the original birth certificate would be "No."
Posted by: DaveL | April 2, 2009 1:55 PM
It would have been more effective if the document provided looked to be about as old as the person it represents...,
You mean, as in an ORIGINAL? If the original is that important, then it will have to stay in the county records office, and any document used outside of said office would have to be a CERTIFIED COPY of said original. Otherwise the original might get lost or destroyed, and then where would you be? And since electronic records are so much more useful than paper records, chances are the most convenient way to get the information to whoever needs it, would be by means of a computer-printed copy.
Posted by: Raging Bee | April 2, 2009 1:55 PM
I think the way to deal with these folks is with their own medicine. There's nothing they like better than a little potted legal history and Latin phrases, and the more sealing wax the better. So let me point out that at common law, it was necessary to issue a writ of venire facias to the sheriff before a grand jury could be summoned. So, crazy people from Georgia, where is your writ?
Posted by: TedF | April 2, 2009 1:56 PM
Neal:
I appreciate your efforts, but Scott Reese and I are from the south and frankly- if I understand his post- we both think morons should be called out. The south has more than its share. Someone show me a opportunity- job with relocation expenses- in MA or CA and I will put on my smurf hat and skip my blue ass away from the red necks. If I actually encounter someone who interacts with me in a denigrating manner, especially regarding my intellect, and appears to do so on the basis of my birthplace, then that person is on par with and exhibiting the same behavior as the rednecks they laugh at. And I will call them out on that. But I think generalized language among thoughtful people usually contains an implied acknowledgment that not everybody in the south sucks.
Posted by: SouthernFriedSkeptic | April 2, 2009 1:58 PM
Why is everyone complaining so much about this? I think it's a great step forward!
In my lifetime, there were people who would go out and form things they called "lynch mobs" which would proceed to commit horrible crimes while communicating amongst themselves in the commonest and most vulgar forms of dialect.
Today, people like that are forming things they call "common law grand juries" and communicating in fancy high-sounding legal mumbo-jumbo. Best of all, they're threatening to commit horrible crimes, which is a sure sign that they're all talk and no action. (If they actually intended to commit crimes, they wouldn't be publicly identifying themselves.)
Sure, technically a "lynch mob" and a "common law grand jury" are the same thing, but the latter is just so much more civilized.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that in another few generations, people like that will be forming "political campaigns", communicating in plain English, and be focused on calm persuasion rather than on criminal activity. Also they'll stop being bigoted nitwits.
Posted by: chaos_engineer | April 2, 2009 2:03 PM
Nah, I don't need a blog for that.
Posted by: LightningRose | April 2, 2009 2:07 PM
Neal posted much earlier:
"This 'argument' [originally posted by MikeMa @12:19PM] basically 'Group X contains few good people so I can legitimately denigrate all members of X.'" @1:28pm
[Edits mine]
So your 'arguement' boils down to: "I live next-door to Scott Reese. He isn't a banjo-pluckin', bestiality lovin' inbred retard*, so therefore all Southerners are being unfairly stereotyped.
But the world isn't talking about individual wisdom but collective foolishness. In this regard, the South sure does seem to exceed their pro-rata quota of the America's Gross National Stupidity. -DJ
*At least I assume this is so :)
Posted by: DingoJack | April 2, 2009 2:18 PM
In the 80's my birth state had yet to computerize all it's old records so when I requested a copy of my birth certificate what I received was a photocopy of the original as filled in by the attending physician, stamped with a raised seal certifying it's authenticity.
By the end of the 90's my birth state had completed the computerization of all it's old records, so when I once again requested a copy of my birth certificate what I received was a computer printed certificate similar to the one released by the Obama campaign, once again stamped with a raised seal certifying it's authenticity.
It's the raised seal that counts and today either document would satisfy the US State Department or any court in the land as proof of my birth and citizenship.
Posted by: LightningRose | April 2, 2009 2:19 PM
For the record, this doesn't have anything to do with southerners. We have more than our fair share of such nutballs here in Michigan too. Hell, the county I live in is every bit as bad as the worst stereotypes of the deep south.
Posted by: Ed Brayton | April 2, 2009 2:25 PM
For anyone who has one of those hospital-issued birth certificates with your footprints on them, I hate to tell you this, but they ain't a legal COLB in the eyes of the state. Hell, my little league wouldn't even take that certificate as proof of age. As for rednecks, I live in CA and if I drive 25 miles from where I am right now, I can find enough rednecks to repopulate Alabama.
Posted by: papa zita | April 2, 2009 2:38 PM
MikeMa, you don't know the half of it. In 1861, each North Carolina County held an independent vote on the question of secession. Here in the mountains, the slave-owning counties all voted to secede; the counties with subsistence farmers voted against. A couple of counties have since "turned" from D to R because of the large numbers of conservative retirees moving into the region, but the correlation remains very high between that 1861 vote and how mountain counties vote today.
I worked in politics @20-odd years back, and can't tell you how many old farmers I heard using the phrase, "I vote the way my grand-daddy shot." I guess we're up to great-grand-daddies now. :D
Kurt
Posted by: kehrsam | April 2, 2009 2:40 PM
Ed seems to have somehow managed to miss the best part - the penetrating grasp of American history these folks have:
http://scienceblogs.com/authority/2009/04/obama_indicted_by_georgia_citi.php
Posted by: Mike Dunford | April 2, 2009 2:42 PM
I've spent the great majority of my life in the Athens, Georgia area, and I can tell you that it really is one of only a small few oases in a cultural desert. Plenty of decent people outside of Athens, (select parts of) Atlanta and a couple other decent cities, mind you, but definitely no shortage of the kind you've heard so much about, like we find in this "Citzens' Grand Jury," and WND types and their ilk know exactly what they're doing with their instigation, manipulating old and embedded prejudices, particularly among older folks.
Come to think of it, is anyone else reminded of the Freemen of the previous decade?
Posted by: Jon Lester | April 2, 2009 2:48 PM
We have more than our fair share of such nutballs here in Michigan too. Hell, the county I live in is every bit as bad as the worst stereotypes of the deep south.
Hmm...Livingston? Not that there aren't bassackward folk elsewhere in the state...
Posted by: FBI Regional Bureau Chief GORDON COLE!!! | April 2, 2009 2:54 PM
Ah, crap--I set myself up perfectly for the "Livington, I presume?" line, and whiffed. I suck at life.
Posted by: FBI Regional Bureau Chief GORDON COLE!!! | April 2, 2009 2:56 PM
My son just got accepted for graduate work in SocAnthro at GA Tech -- should we persuade him to pick U of Toronto instead? ;-)
Apropos of birth certificates (but otherwise irrelevant): I have my mother's birth certificate, issued in 1920 by the registrar's office in Queensbury, Yorkshire, UK. It's a beautiful piece of fountain-pen calligraphy: I am in awe at this common clerk, filling in an utterly routine bit of paperwork -- and making of it a minor work of art.
Posted by: Eamon Knight | April 2, 2009 3:02 PM
Ed, you're being disengenious when you say it has nothing to do with Southerners. It didn't why did you invoke Southern stereotypes? Any mention of gold capped teeth in discussing Obama or guilt-tripping mothers when discussing Madoff would be intolerable. I live in the south and am often embarrassed by its political office holders, but you could have made your point without the disparagement.
Posted by: Bill in NC | April 2, 2009 3:02 PM
I live in GA too (near the sometimes-lake known as Lanier), in a fairly affluent gated community (ducks!). I think the yellow-dogs have all died off, and been replaced by rabid red rethuglicans (at least here in the northern suburbs)
Most of my neighbors thought McCain was too damn soft, and are frothing at the mouth over the 'socialization' of 'our great nation'!
I don't see any major differences between their mindset, and these 25 special people.
[anecdote]
My wife & I participate in a 'dinner and conversation' thing every few weeks - but we're getting fed up being the euro-socialist punching bags for these asshole right-wing idiots. Every single one has a very senior job. Every one is expected to act responsibly, and to act based on the weight of evidence. Not one can think past their extreme right wing (christo-fascist) mindset.
Some quotes from this past weekend...
We'll never get MRIs if we have social medicine
Obama is going to raise taxes so much I might as well be on welfare [yeah - welfare is going to pay for a 10000 sq ft home with a 4 car garage and his & her porche cayennes]
Obama will force companies to outsource even more jobs , 'cos the unions will make American products too expensive
I don't believe in welfare. They should just get up and work
We're going to give less to charity, because we won't get a deduction
These are all people 'earning' well over $200k per year in salary. Sometimes I just want to poison the dip!
[/anecdote]
Posted by: TonyC | April 2, 2009 3:11 PM
Eamon Knight:
Ga Tech is a great school. And it is in the intellectual heartland of the state. Atlanta, while having a crusty redneck outer shell, actually has a creamy progressive center. :)
Just tell him to stay within driving distance of Atlanta, and not to wear any clothing indicating he is a GA Tech student off the campus. In the in-state rivalry UGA fans far outnumber Tech fans and football may actually be more important than jesus in Georgia.
Posted by: SouthernFriedSkeptic | April 2, 2009 3:15 PM
TonyC:
Yes, there are stark regional differences. I experienced culture shock just by going to college in the Atlanta area, having originated in the southern part of the state. These small rural towns are like going back in time. As a matter of fact, growing up, the predominantly African American parts of town were not called the 'hood', they were called the quarters. As in slave-quarter, then black-quarter during segregation. It was just a holdover used broadly regardless of race and it took college and experience before I could critically examine my own cultural origins and understand how little the region has progressed. Now I'm stuck in my hometown again and it's like being confined to darkness after seeing the sun.
Posted by: SouthernFriedSkeptic | April 2, 2009 3:21 PM
Eamon Knight:
Toronto is beautiful but damn cold. GA Tech should be reasonable and traveling outside the 'protected zone' should give him an appreciation and ample enthusiasm for finishing college.
Posted by: MikeMa | April 2, 2009 3:27 PM
Bill in NC wrote:
I didn't invoke Southern stereotypes, I invoked redneck stereotypes. And as I said, you can find more than enough people who fit that description in my hometown that is so far North it's almost Canadian. And of course you can find plenty of people from the South that aren't that way at all. Ignorant pseudo-patriot militia-type good ol' boys are all over this country, not just in the South.
Posted by: Ed Brayton | April 2, 2009 3:49 PM
Bill in NC: I live in the south and am often embarrassed by its political office holders, but you could have made your point without the disparagement.
It has been my experience that as a general rule (and there may be exceptions, perhaps you?) that Southerners who disagree with the insane rightwing politics are among the loudest in invoking the hillbilly stereotype in describing Southern culture.
The Southerners who tend to object the loudest to this stereotype are conservatives (or conservatives-who-try-to-pass-as-moderates) trying to make themselves seem respectable. Again, that is just a general observation that I've made -- there may be some exceptions to that.
Posted by: Chiroptera | April 2, 2009 3:51 PM
No, I'm saying that some Southerners are being unfairly stereotyped, and since I'm a decent person I'm not going to posit the personal character of millions of people I've never even met.
Do you know how the South's fraction of the GNS compares to other regions of the country? Obviously, since this is a fictional metric you invented, you do not know any of this. You're only saying, with far too many words, that you know people in the south are stupid because they are stupid.
So let's not presume to speak of the South collectively or make dumb jokes about Nascar fans. Instead, let's talk individuals. Let's talk about the distinct individuals who are agitating to topple our government through terrorist action. For instance we have the the lead organizer. From his profile we can quickly deduce that he isn't some dirt-poor country bumpkin, but is, as I suspected, a typical Republican fossil from an Atlanta suburb. Judging by his new truck, he's probably quite well to-do. He looks like a typical Republican you would find in Ohio, or California, or Maryland.
Posted by: Neal | April 2, 2009 3:53 PM
Mom, who was from South Texas, said she didn't really see that much difference between small town or rural Southern whites and Northern whites.
Posted by: rnb | April 2, 2009 3:56 PM
Well, I'm an idiot at any rate. How about you, SouthernFriedSkeptic? It comes from the head bouncing up and down watchin' them cars turn left.
Posted by: kehrsam | April 2, 2009 4:04 PM
Neal:
Look a political map of the U.S. and notice the red and blue division. It would be irrational denial to not recognize that some areas are dominated by particular ideological views. Other research can confirm that while the stereotypical "redneck" is not the totality, it is a significant portion of the population, especially relative to other places. I am not offended because I recognize the prevelance of ignorance around me. I want people to acknowledge it, because damn it, I want it to change. Or at least start some sort of underground railroad for liberal atheists in the bible belt.
But I think we all recognize it's not everyone in the south characterized as rednecks, nor are all rednecks in the south.
Like I said, hillbilly and redneck reflect a state of mind, not all the minds in the state.
Posted by: SouthernFriedSkeptic | April 2, 2009 4:11 PM
Regarding the people vs. citizen point, my understanding is that you can become a citizen (via those corrupted federal laws), you can never become "one of the people". You either are by birth, or you never will be.
Posted by: Mu | April 2, 2009 4:18 PM
kehrsam
The rise of Nascar was just one more artifact of southern culture that has inspired my current belief that I am part of some twisted experiment- bred in a lab and placed among those whose core principles are in opposition to the ones genetically engineered in me. Somewhere a scientist is laughing while another watches a timer waiting for me to snap.
Posted by: SouthernFriedSkeptic | April 2, 2009 4:21 PM
Ed,you're right about invoking various stereotypes as only stereotyping certain subgroups and not the whole group, but not everyone is aware of the distinction and often the reference is made without drawing the distinction. I hope we have clarified any misunderstandings.
Posted by: Bill in NC | April 2, 2009 4:35 PM
Chiroptera, what is your point other than defending the use of stereotypes and insinuate that I must be Southern conservative, in the negative sense of the term?
Posted by: Bill in NC | April 2, 2009 4:44 PM
So these days, in Georgia, the new term for "lynch mob" is "grand jury." Cute.
Posted by: Martin | April 2, 2009 4:54 PM
he got tired of the issues over Obama's eligibility, as well as his performance in office
As well as his performance in office? I didn't know being a shitty president was a prosecutable offence. With Obama at 60% approval and Bush below 30%, these wingnuts better be careful how they abuse the law.
Posted by: MZ | April 2, 2009 7:31 PM
Maybe next these rubes will form another patriot-packed, fact-finding commission dedicated to questioning the real outcome of the Civil War...because y'know, Lee's surrender at Appomattox is a well-known liberal myth.
Posted by: CHV | April 2, 2009 7:45 PM
Posted by: SouthernFriedSkeptic :
But only, of course, after being recognised by the chair, raising the appropriate motion, being supported by two other standing members of the committee, and after a majority vote. Right? ;) ;)
Posted by: Dr Horrible | April 2, 2009 8:10 PM
Hey, SouthernFried - I'm in Tifton, and just as surrounded as you by the Red Sea. Where are you? Drop me a line at gmail, using my nickname below. If nothing else, maybe we can get a Southern Georgia Skeptic Facebook group started, or something.
Posted by: BobApril | April 2, 2009 9:05 PM
Ed:
In all seriousness, I thought that Farah had jumped off this Obama-is-not-a-citizen crazy train because it was too desperate and lame even for him.
Did he change his mind?
Posted by: CHV | April 2, 2009 9:11 PM
I well remember the 1990 senate election when ole' Jesse Helms was running against a black man - Harvey Gantt, the mayor of Charlotte. My local newspaper interviewed a guy who said that despite misgivings, he was going to vote for Gantt because he was a democrat. How he put it was: "Sure I'll vote for him. He's a smart n*gger!"
I had only been in NC for a few years at that point and was still naive enough for that to make my jaw drop.
Posted by: Savagemutt | April 2, 2009 9:32 PM
I'm currently in Forsyth County, north metro Atlanta. This county is famous locally for the fact that until 1970 or so there were no African-American residents. Zero. The local community made sure that it stayed that way. Things have changed, but not too much. Today on my morning amble I walked past a house with seven flagpoles, five of which had variants of the Confederate flag. There was a business card on the mailbox for the resident. He runs the "Redneck Crackers of America Lawn Service."
For those who feel that redneck characterizations are unfair to the south, I grew up in the south and had five great-great-grandfathers on the losing side of the Recent Unpleasantness. People like the members of the 'grand jury' and the owner of the above business have devoted their lives building the redneck brand. The least we can do is recognize their efforts.
Posted by: Opus | April 2, 2009 9:41 PM
Neal, the only thing I want to pick out of the words exchanged here about stereotypes is "'Hee-Haw' crowd." "Hee-Haw" is high art compared to some of the stuff fed my neighbors these days, and I would venture to say that its cast of regulars were probably less socially conservative than their average viewer, or at least, in my mind, they seem a long way from, say, Trace Adkins. And Roy Clark is one of the greatest musicians of our time.
Posted by: Jon Lester | April 2, 2009 10:35 PM
Re GaTech: Thanks for the advice, and I *was* joking ;-). U of T was sort of the safety school; we're happy to see him off to GA (he did his undergrad at a little college in rural IL, so he's got a bit of the wunderlust there).
About Toronto: We grew up there, but now live in Ottawa, where our son was born and raised. Don't talk to me or him about COLD.
Posted by: Eamon Knight | April 2, 2009 10:42 PM
Well, if this ever goes any further than WND and those who are fond of making fun of stories that appear there, it looks like we have a pool of more than 25 GA residents who also happen to be readers of Ed's blog, who would be ready to form a "grand jury" to indict anyone who had anything to do with the previous administration. Though, if they are basing this on the magna carta, I probably would not qualify as part of the potential grand jury pool, being of the female persuasion and all. Drat.
FWIW, in my old neighborhood, in the extreme north of Fulton County, in the 2000 election, the Buchanan yard signs easily outnumbered the Gore signs by 3:1. When I worked in Forsyth County, I had black coworkers who refused to ever leave the building at lunch, for fear of being lynched, and this is less than 10 years ago. I'd be more comfortable leaving a mildly progressive bumper sticker on my car in freakin' Alabama, where I live part of the week, than in Georgia, and I live in Atlanta. I will never forget all the "Give Peace a Chance" yard signs that I saw burned, in one of the more progressive parts of town that a friend lived in, around the start of the Iraq war. I believe that was Cynthia McKinney's old district, now that I think about it.
Of course, it was the Atlanta suburbs that gave us Newt (my old rep!), and the middle of nowhere boonies that gave us Jimmy Carter. In other words, even our most famous living politicians demonstrate that there's right wing nutjobs in Atlanta, and the ultimate example of leftist "losers" from the sticks. I just wish that I didn't hear Jimmy's name most often in reference to traffic problems, locally.
So yes, Georgia is deeply conflicted, and the tolerance of the Atlanta area is highly overstated, but the downtown area is pretty safe. The richer, northern suburbs can be pretty frightening.
Posted by: Djinna | April 2, 2009 11:00 PM
Bill in NC: Chiroptera, what is your point other than defending the use of stereotypes and insinuate that I must be Southern conservative, in the negative sense of the term?
Huh. I thought my point was obvious, but I guess not.
There is a claim that the "Southern Hillbilly" stereotype is insulting and demeaning to the many Southerners who are intelligent and thoughtful. My point is that I haven't seen this to be the case most of the time. Most of the intelligent and thoughtful Southerners recognize that the stereotype isn't directed at them personally, and even make use of the stereotype themselves in their insults. Mainly, the people who object to the stereotype seem to be the very people who the stereotype is meant to insult -- the ignorant and stupid. I'm acknowledging that you may be one of the exceptions.
Posted by: Chiroptera | April 2, 2009 11:11 PM
Here in York County, Pennsylvania, I've seen several homes proudly flying the Confederate battle flag. Somehow, I doubt they're all civil war reenactors.
Rednecks are everywhere.
Posted by: Martian Buddy | April 2, 2009 11:29 PM
Neal (@3:53pm) - uh no. What I was saying was that "Southerners are stupid"* because the preponderance of the anecdotal evidence shows that this is so.
I once saw two elephants who could 'tango'. Does this mean all elephants everywhere 'tango' (except when those pesky conservationists are watching)?
You are speaking of the exceptions [outliers] (of which, as you can read here, there are plenty), I am speaking of the rule [mean].
Also, as noted above, if they revel in being 'rednecks' (and all that entails), can they be offended if they are called 'rednecks' by others? - curiously DJ
*Your words, not mine.
Posted by: DingoJack | April 3, 2009 12:50 AM
Two points:
First, what President Obama provided is a Certificate of Live Birth. This is the document that is required to get a driver's license or passport or to prove citizenship in (say) a court of law. It does not ordinarily contain "objective evidence that serves as testimony and witness to the people present, the time, the doctor, etc." as one comment demanded above. It is however the document that is usually meant by the phrase "birth certificate."
As several comments pointed out the document that does contain such information is kept on file by the state. It is usually possible to obtain a photocopy, but few people (except those who do family history) bother. Not being a lawyer, I don't know whether such a photocopy has any legal standing.
That thing with the footprints on it that they send home from the hospital is essentially a souvenir.
There is absolutely no reason why a certificate of live birth should look "to be about as old as the person it represents." My hospital certificate (with my baby footprints), my certificate of baptism, my original birth certificate, and my certificate of live birth all look fairly new. The first three are well over fifty years old; the last is (as it should be) "a freshly printed, computer generated document". Only the last one of the four was acceptable to the department of motor vehicles when I lost my ID five years or so ago.
What President Obama provided is precisely the same document that any American would be required to provide to prove citizenship or whatever. This whole pseudo-controversy is as bogus as they come.
My second point is that citizen juries have a long tradition in this country. On the west coast at least an angry mob, before lynching a horse thief or native American, would form itself into a citizen jury, solemnly weigh the evidence, reach some sort of ad-hoc legal decision, make a memorandum of their deliberations, and then go carry out the lynching. (Now I'm not saying that that's what they really did--but some records of such deliberations exist. My personal suspicion is that they made the records up afterward to provide some kind of legal cover for their acts, but I have no evidence for that opinion.) These deliberations sometimes lasted up to half an hour, so presumably they covered the matter fairly thoroughly.
Posted by: sbh | April 3, 2009 1:17 AM
My second point is that citizen juries have a long tradition in this country. On the west coast at least an angry mob, before lynching a horse thief or native American, would form itself into a citizen jury, solemnly weigh the evidence, reach some sort of ad-hoc legal decision, make a memorandum of their deliberations, and then go carry out the lynching.
It happened in "Pink Flamingos," too.
Posted by: FBI Regional Bureau Chief GORDON COLE!!! | April 3, 2009 9:17 AM
"Most of the intelligent and thoughtful Southerners recognize that the stereotype isn't directed at them personally,"
Real credit to their race, huh?
This reminds me way too much of the way whites talked about blacks and mexican americans in the 60s. I think there is also a real class factor involved here.
Posted by: rnb | April 3, 2009 9:20 AM
rnb:
Epic fail of logic, I think.
Racial and ethnic characteristics are genetic and inherited. While the stupid and "redneckism" may SEEM to be so, they're not. Most of the "rednecks" I've met over the years are proud of themselves FOR being ingnorant fuckheads.
Posted by: democommie | April 3, 2009 9:24 AM
This post has been up for over 24 hours now, and there's not been one comment restating the charges or "evidence" against "That One?" The birfers must really be running out of steam.
Posted by: Raging Bee | April 3, 2009 3:23 PM
Bee,
I don't think they'll ever run out of steam or hot air or theories for that matter. I also (hope) don't think there are as many as seem to post. One or two using various logins maybe.
Posted by: MikeMa | April 3, 2009 3:28 PM
A more likely explanation is that they're still trolling for blogs to respond on, but haven't yet used the right search-phrases to get here. That, and those who have already posted here have already learned they're out of their depth, and given up.
Posted by: Raging Bee | April 3, 2009 3:35 PM
Chiroptera, sometimes the stereotypes are used a crass generalizations. Yes, there are a number of middle class, educated Southerners who understand that Delieverance isn't about them just as there are Italian-Americans who understand that the Sopranos isn't about them. But you'd be naive to think that stereotypes aren't used for generalizations.
Posted by: Bill in NC | April 3, 2009 5:19 PM
Raging Bee: several of whom you speak are out in force here.
http://scienceblogs.com/authority/2009/04/obama_indicted_by_georgia_citi.php
There is one post (#21) that is truly a thing of wing-nuttery beauty (and I mean that in the most perverse sense of the word "beauty")
Posted by: dean | April 3, 2009 9:20 PM
There is one post (#21) that is truly a thing of wing-nuttery beauty…
A recent one (#53) is also quite good, 'cept the nutter (same one) has learned to use paragraphs.
Posted by: blf | April 4, 2009 6:18 AM
Regardless of the argument at hand - wouldn't it make sense to stop wasting time with this discussion and just both agree to find out (or verify) the truth. I mean really - think about it... The Obama fans can gloat if everything is A-OK, and the Birthers can "have their day in court" if things are found to be bad. Either way, continuing to argue is just a waste of time at this point. And if you think about it, why is there an issue with Americans wanting to independently verify the credentials of their elected officials? I don't understand what the issue is with wanting to find out (or verify the truth). You should both stop wasting your time and both seek to either uncover or to verify the truth.
J
Posted by: JS | April 22, 2009 12:25 AM
JS - Been & done.
If this were not so, President Obama could not have run, besides those doubters had two (or so) years before the election to dig up any dirt on the candidate, but they didn't find any. Not to mention all the Internet chatter from birfers (after 'they lost' the election) that added up to exactly zip. That's plenty of inquiry I'd say.
Solved, now move on. - DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | April 22, 2009 2:02 AM
In contrast= 2 Illinois grand Juries have done the same thing. One is in Chicago- where Obama was, so now what can you dream up to insult THEM with?
You are a fool, you know. And then there's this- he stalled so long, for what? We guessed. Now we KNOW:
{...from (a) DC source that an Administration team is working on perfecting a forgery of the long-form birth certificate. They plan on presenting it in a a month or so. The source is FBI agent who has drinking buddy from University of Illinois now in the Administration. Its second hand, but the source is supposed to be solid.
They have already prepared the forgery with special paper and ink. The document was printed on a fully functional 1960 Heidelberger printing press located at a print museum in Toronto. Access was arranged by a trustee of the museum who is connected to a large Canadian banking/investment firm with major US interests.”
The blanks in the forged form were filled in with an old Underwood Manual typewriter bought at an estate sale in Skokie, IL. The raised seal was the easiest piece to fake, since you can by a special order corporate seal from just about any online office supply store.
The only reason they haven't rolled out the foregery yet is that it is "seasoning" under mild UV light and a back and forth rotation between between a humidifier and a sauna. Get ready....one to two months tops.
I also said they'd have to get a 1960s Printing Press, and indeed, by this information, looks like they found one.
The banking connection is disturbing too, gives more credibility to this also. The details here are solid.
Obama visited Canada not that long ago, anyone know if he went to Toronto? )http://216.221.102.26/blogger/post/Is-the-Obama-administration-working-on-a-forged-long-form-Birth-Certificate-as-we-speak.aspx
Posted by: Gina R | May 3, 2009 8:28 PM
Posted by: Anna | May 3, 2009 9:35 PM
Gina R - see #118 above, replacing 'JS' with 'Gina R'. -DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | May 3, 2009 11:24 PM
Gina R. #119, I live in Toronto. I take a lively interest in my city and its history. I researched and wrote a booklet about Toronto and its attractions for a conference. There is no print museum in Toronto.
And no, President Obama did not come to Toronto; he was in the Niagara Peninsula / Hamilton area visiting in-laws.
Posted by: Monado | May 16, 2009 9:51 PM
All you guys are a bunch of Obama crack smoking, Kool Aid drinking morons. Get your facts straight. Read the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence and see that Obama has no right to hold the office of President, he is a total fascist and a liar. The juries are not just in Georgia they are all over the country. Obama and his whole cabinet and all his stupid Czars MUST fall. We are not Communist Russia. The Storm is Coming!
Posted by: Right Wing Extreminst | July 5, 2009 11:47 AM
Read the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence and see that Obama has no right to hold the office of President....
Is that because you think he's only 3/5 of a person?
Posted by: Chiroptera | July 5, 2009 12:13 PM
1) While the Declaration of Independence is an important historic document, it has no status of law in the United States (or anywhere else for that matter, as far as I'm aware).
2) Nothing in the Constitution would prohibit Barack Hussein Obama Jr., a 47 year-old born in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction, from serving as President of the United States.
You're getting your bogeymen all mixed up. Which one is it? Is he a fascist? A czarist? A communist? Do you understand the differences between them? Did you even know there was a difference?
So are the people who voted him into office. Guess which are more numerous.
Posted by: DaveL | July 5, 2009 12:32 PM
Posted by: Taz | July 5, 2009 1:28 PM
RWE posted: "Read the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence and see that Obama has no right to hold the office of President, he is a total fascist and a liar."
Which sections of these documents (remembering the comments of DaveL above), specifically, disqualify persons who are 'total fascists' and liars from holding the office of President? How is this to be determined, and by whom?
"all his stupid Czars MUST fall. We are not Communist Russia." Tell that to all those Czars appointed by that arch communist-fascist St. Ronnie of Alzheimer's, he pretty much invented their existence in American politics.
"The Storm is Coming!" Great I'll break out my best china for the storm to swirl around in, Which would you prefer RWE, English Breakfast, Earl Grey or Lapsang souchong? - DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | July 5, 2009 1:59 PM