Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
Wiley Drake, former vice president of the Southern Baptist convention, is back to his old ways of putting curses on people. He did it to Barry Lynn and now he's doing it for President Obama as well. During an appearance on the Alan Colmes radio show, he went off the deep end even for the lunatic that he's always been.
Wiley Drake, pastor of First Southern Baptist Church in Buena Park, Calif., and former running mate of American Independent Party presidential candidate Alan Keyes, said June 2 on Fox News Radio he didn't understand why people were upset with his comments quoted by Associated Baptist Press from a webcast of his daily radio talk show."Imprecatory prayer is agreeing with God, and if people don't like that, they need to talk to God," Drake told syndicated talk-show host Alan Colmes. "God said it, I didn't. I was just agreeing with God."
Asked if there are others for whom Drake is praying "imprecatory prayer," Drake hesitated before answering that there are several. "The usurper that is in the White House is one, B. Hussein Obama," he said.
Later in the interview, Colmes returned to Drake's answer to make sure he heard him right.
"Are you praying for his death?" Colmes asked.
"Yes," Drake replied.
"So you're praying for the death of the president of the United States?"
"Yes."
Colmes asked Drake if he was concerned that by saying that he might be placed on a Secret Service or FBI watch list, and if he believed it appropriate to talk or pray that way.
"I think it's appropriate to pray the Word of God," Drake said. "I'm not saying anything. What I am doing is repeating what God is saying, and if that puts me on somebody's list, then I'll just have to be on their list."
"You would like for the president of the United States to die?" Colmes asked once more.
"If he does not turn to God and does not turn his life around, I am asking God to enforce imprecatory prayers that are throughout the Scripture that would cause him death, that's correct."
Most of the half-hour interview on "The Alan Colmes Show" is premium programming available by paid subscription, but a five-minute clip appeared as a "top video" on the Fox News Radio website.
Drake said he didn't pray for Tiller to be murdered -- only that God would take his life by some method -- but that he "absolutely" believed that God wanted the doctor dead.
"I believe the whole Bible, Alan," he explained. "I don't just preach part of it. I don't just preach the soft, fuzzy, warm stuff where we're supposed to be nice to everybody. I preach the whole Bible."
Part of the Bible, Drake claimed, is imprecatory prayer -- words of judgment in the Psalms prayed back to God -- a practice he said the church has lost.
Drake fielded calls from a few listeners, including one identifying himself as a lifelong Southern Baptist who said he was saddened to hear a minister would pray for someone to die.
"This whole concept that we're always to pray little, nice, soft, fluffy, prayers -- that we're not to pray imprecatory prayer -- has been something that just, in all honesty, that Southern Baptists have lost, and we need to regain imprecatory prayer," Drake said. "It is in the Bible, and we are proud to say as Southern Baptists that we believe the Book. You've got to believe the whole Book, brother, or you don't believe any of it."
And he went even further into cloud cuckoo land, claiming that the guy who killed Tiller isn't really anti-abortion but was a plant by Obama. Seriously:
Drake said he did not believe Tiller's accused killer is a pro-life Christian."I'm of the opinion -- and now everybody's going to say 'There goes Wiley down the conspiracy-theory road,' I'm of the opinion that somebody in the Obama camp had this guy killed."
"Who benefits the most from this man killing a doctor?" Drake asked. "We certainly don't. Pro-life people certainly don't. It hurts us. It damages us, but Obama will indeed advance it. This will be one of those crises to take advantage of, and he's already done that."
It appears that Drake hit the bottom of the barrel and just kept on digging.
Politics
Comments
So I guess that means he's familiar with the Lex Talonis which makes it clear that abortion is not murder. Oh wait, I guess he skipped over those parts (or more likely just ignored them).
Posted by: catgirl | June 10, 2009 9:29 AM
I occasionally regret that we SBs have no mechanism akin to exommunication. Drake is a first-class loon, but since every church is independent, there is nothing the rest of us can do other than point out that he is insane.
Posted by: kehrsam | June 10, 2009 9:38 AM
Drake stated:
This sort of delusional logical fallacy infects many Christians, even liberal ones, not necessarily on this argument but in general, the most popular being a paraphrased version of this C.S. Lewis statement:
Drake provides additional illumination on how not being in possession of critical thinking skills provides benefit to those whose clients are the religious right.
Posted by: Michael Heath | June 10, 2009 9:54 AM
Kerhsam, I'll consider him excommunicated if you'd like. I think that really is useless (as I think the affiliation is useless to begin with). I've been a regular church-goer my whole life, but dropped the idea that membership of affiliation with a denomination means anything.
Posted by: Odie | June 10, 2009 9:56 AM
Catgirl, neither does he appear to be familiar with the more direct command of his god to slaughter fetuses: "Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31:17-18)
Posted by: chris | June 10, 2009 10:06 AM
His statements read like those of a child trying to deflect blame for something he did that he knows is wrong.
"Imprecatory prayer is agreeing with God, and if people don't like that, they need to talk to God"
I.e., "don't blame me, blame god".
Posted by: Taz | June 10, 2009 10:11 AM
Drake is not a servant of GOd. He is a servant of Satan. GOd does not need his help if (GOD) want to call someone home. If he have a congregation listen to his crept, they are a punch of racist and GOd is not in them. To pray for the death of someone is totally evil. GOd is a God of love, something he knows nothing about. I pray that GOD will touch his heart and fill it with love for his fellowman.If he hates President Obama that bad he can't love God.Jesus Christ(GOD) said, how can you say you love me and hate your fellowman. For your fellowman you have seen,I you have never seen.It's people like him is why this world is in the mess it is in due to evilness and hatred. GOd said, turn from your evil ways and I will heal your land. I hope he will find the true GOd and stop worshiping Satan.
Posted by: Frankco | June 10, 2009 10:15 AM
"Imprecatory prayer is agreeing with God, and if people don't like that, they need to talk to God"
Well, he actually has a point there. The Old Testament depiction of god is nothing if not murderous.
Posted by: schism | June 10, 2009 10:19 AM
"The usurper"? That's a term I've not heard applied to President Obama. Someone should ask the Right Reverend Drake to defend that viewpoint.
Posted by: Chris Winter | June 10, 2009 10:20 AM
catgirl, please educate me.
When you say "So I guess that means he's familiar with the Lex Talonis which makes it clear that abortion is not murder.", I looked in Wikipedia for this, and couldn't find that connection.
Posted by: RAM | June 10, 2009 10:37 AM
Why do we put people like this on radio shows? Why pay any attention to them? When I was an undergraduate at IU, there was a nutjob - likely a homeless person who was called Preacher Dan - who would stand outside Woodburn Hall with a Bible and scream at all the students passing him by, calling the women whores and the men fags - all of the students were damned to Hell. We laughed at him and mocked him, but mostly we felt sorry for him, and we definiately didn't take him seriously.
Why do we take Drake (not to mention all the other high profile professional media theocons) seriously?
Posted by: Chuck | June 10, 2009 10:43 AM
Chuck,
Doesn't Woodburn Hall have the Political Science, or maybe the Economics, Department? Sounds like Preacher Dan was in the right place to say those things!
Then again, I think any place on the IU campus is an appropriate place to hurl insults.
(Go Boilers!)
Posted by: James Hanley | June 10, 2009 10:58 AM
I'm not familiar with 'imprecatory prayers' but aren't they prayers that ask god to smite the "prayee's" enemies? How does one ask someone for something to happen AND agree with that person at the same time, unless god already thought the same thing? If god already agrees something needs to be done, why doesn't god just smite? Why is god dependant on humans to complain in agreement with him, before he can act? What kind of lame god is the christian god anyway?
Also if 'imprecatory prayers' are god's own thoughts, and that (contrary to him own, supposed, omnipotence) he can't act on them until one of his minions asks him, then god clearly thinks that the current President of the USA is an usurper (of who one wonders? Since he was clearly elected, he hardly illegally took power from another person), that surely must be in the certified rolled-gold copy god's words, the bible. So Drake, where, specifically? Or are you just projecting your own tiny anxieties on your imaginary friend, in order to soothe yourself.
Why not buy a pacifier? It hurts no one else, and it's cheap! - DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | June 10, 2009 11:00 AM
Frankco, don't tell us. You need to go to church, preferably a SB church, and tell them how wrong they are.
Make sure you videotape it.
Posted by: FastLane | June 10, 2009 11:03 AM
Exodus 21:22-25:
23And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
If a man hits a woman and she has a miscarriage, then the man must only pay a fine. But, if he kills the woman, he must pay with his life. If he hurts the woman in any other way, he must pay with an equivalent punishment. Clearly ending a pregnancy is not the same thing as murder.
Posted by: catgirl | June 10, 2009 11:07 AM
Catgirl, thank you!
Posted by: RAM | June 10, 2009 11:11 AM
RAM - I refer you to this article (http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/JHS/Articles/article_53.htm) for an explanation of how Exodus 21:22-25 applies "eye for an eye" (Lex Talionis) to the death of the mother, and not of the fetus, in the abortion context. Many anti-abortion people use this Biblical passage to say the Bible condemns abortion, but this article posits that the passage is referring to the death or injury of the mother when applying the Lex Talionis law. According to this article, the fetus was not treated as a life at the time of the writing of the Bible.
Posted by: Andy | June 10, 2009 11:14 AM
Is there a point where this sort of thing becomes prosecutable as incitement? (Yes, I realize we're into that grey area at the edge of free speech)
Posted by: Eamon Knight | June 10, 2009 11:16 AM
The Secret Service might be kinda stuck, there, Ed! Since prayer has been shown to be thoroughly ineffective, could Drake be considered as making a real threat when it's made in prayer?! I'd love to see this go to court. It would be a nightmare for believers.
Posted by: Ian | June 10, 2009 11:24 AM
"Imprecatory prayer is agreeing with God, and if people don't like that, they need to talk to God... God said it, I didn't. I was just agreeing with God."
Surely the only logical response to this line of argument is: "I just talked to God and he says he never heard of you."
Posted by: Robin | June 10, 2009 11:25 AM
This is one of the reasons religion is so incredibly stupid. "I'm not responsible for the bad things I've done, the Devil made me do it," or "Satan possessed me." On the other hand, "It isn't my fault I'm such a heartless arrogant prick, I'm just following God's word."
It's a bunch of BS, they simply find (or concoct) religious excuses to be as bigoted and cruel as they were going to be anyway.
------------------
Michael,
I remember that CS Lewis quote as an undergrad. I asked the professor about the fact that the Bible was written decades after the death of Christ and the impact that had on statements alleged to have been made by Christ. To say he didn't take it well is putting it very lightly. It is equally amazing that so many people blindly accept a book whose authorship and provenance are so completely shrouded in mystery as the "inerrant word of God" just boggles the mind.
Posted by: dogmeatIB | June 10, 2009 12:01 PM
Thank you also Andy!
Posted by: RAM | June 10, 2009 12:44 PM
I'm sure he thought he was outside the theater department.
Posted by: Scott Hanley | June 10, 2009 12:59 PM
Chris Winter: Many on the looney right, and even the mainstream right (see Townhall) think that Obama was not rightly elected, either because he isn't an American citizen (google "birth certificate" or check out Worldnetdaily), or because ACORN fabricated millions of votes in his favor, and the media refused to talk more about William Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezcko, etc. Of course the evidence they have for any of this is sparse at best, but that doesn't stop the echo chambers from echoing on, and on, and on.
What really chaps my ass about the sorts of statements Drake makes is the supreme arrogance of them, and how we are all supposed to ignore that because he says it's really Yahweh doing it all. In this way God becomes like an imaginery friend who gets the blame for all the child's sins.
As for accepting all of the Bible or not, does Drake therefore criticize the Council of Nicea and accept the apocrypha? And if we tack on some extra chapters to the Bible, would he accept those too?
Sometimes criticizing these guys is like trying to hit 5 softballs pitched simultaneously. Picking out a particular target is difficult.
Posted by: Science Avenger | June 10, 2009 1:03 PM
SHAME ON YOU DRAKE...
'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD. - Leviticus 19:18
Posted by: Kat | June 10, 2009 1:04 PM
I don't preach the soft, fuzzy, warm stuff where we're supposed to be nice to everybody.
So he preaches all of the Bible except for the parts that tell people to do good things. Frankly, that explains a lot.
Posted by: ESC | June 10, 2009 1:40 PM
Chuck:
Why do we put people like this on radio shows? Why pay any attention to them?
Because, to be blunt, shit floats to the top.
Nicer answer: although I think that wackjobs like Drake have every right to exercise their First Amendment rights, I in turn have every right to call him a blasphemous nutjob who would have the audacity to use his own God as a $50 hitman against someone he doesn't agree with.
And these people still wonder why they're looked at as clinically insane by other people like us?
Posted by: Chris Krolczyk | June 10, 2009 6:12 PM
Not only is this a gross example of what it truly means to take God's name in vain, it also seems to go against the episode in the book of Acts when Paul took away the slave girl's powers of divination.
Posted by: Jon Lester | June 10, 2009 7:58 PM
hehe I've often wondered about this scenario... I would like to see if the Feds would consider charging him with threatening the president. To do so would suggest that the prayer had some validity.. but if the president died then for him to be charged, they would have to accept that god did it on his recommendation...
what a ratsnest.
Posted by: jay | June 10, 2009 9:19 PM
@jay--Charging the guy with threatening the president wouldn't necessarily suggest that the prayer could have supernatural effect, rather simply that it's an incitement of the guy's (definitely non-supernatural) followers to commit crimes.
Posted by: david | June 10, 2009 9:42 PM
Robin (#20)
I like that way of thinking. Perhaps I'll try it on a phone-in program "God was telling me that he tries to talk to you but that you never listen. He says your mind is too full of angry thoughts."
Posted by: Richard Simons | June 10, 2009 10:19 PM
I have been to Wiley Drake's Church. As a member of Americans United for Separation of Church and State I was curious about this windbag praying for the death of Barry Lynn, our National Director, and wanted to assess how much of a threat he really was.
His church is rather pathetic and only one third full. Half of his congregation were homeless people that he first fed (a good thing) and then compelled to sit (or sleep in most cases) through his service.
But the other half of the congregation were more disturbing. They were what my parents would have called "white trailer trash," and they were insecure, mean, and angry. I don't know how many own guns, but I suspect most.
These people have the means and the motivation to carry out a deadly threat against the President. They hopefully lack the opportunity, but how can that be assured?
We have seen domestic terrorism week after week. Perhaps the desecrations of Temples and Mosques went unnoticed, but the killings by an anti-abortion fanatic and a white supremicist made front page news.
Hate is on the rise, and those who preach hate must be held accountable. We have to treat domestic terrorism as a more credible threat than even Al Qaeda. After all, they are already here.
Posted by: Rich | June 11, 2009 2:35 AM
Romans 12:14
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
I continue to find it terribly sad that people will fixate so much on the less savory parts of the Bible, particularly things that are found in the Old Testament (the entire covenant of which was replaced by Jesus, if you believe what he said). It seems like almost all of the really crazy stuff that some "Christians" believe (like "God is telling me to curse people") is based on some of the most potentially troublesome passages of the OT.
I also wonder, do people even READ the Bible anymore? I'm all for people forming their own opinions about some things--I know I do--but wow. I'm not certain how anyone who has actually read the book can seriously think and say and do some of the crazy stuff I see sometimes.
Posted by: Bridget McKinney | June 11, 2009 2:42 AM
Bridget, the sad fact of the matter is that too many people go along with whatever the preacher says and without reading the scriptures for themselves, and too many of those preachers would rather not encourage independent study. It's not exclusive to Christianity but, now that I think about it, perhaps it's to the credit of Muslims that they honor those who can recite the Qur'an, however skewered various interpretations may be. By contrast, many western Christians are content with selective readings and sermonizing in weekly services, despite the fact that someone studying at the pace of one verse a week would take 600 years to get through the whole Bible.
Posted by: Jon Lester | June 11, 2009 4:56 AM
This happens about once a month. Some retard expecting their diety to listen to their hate mongering.
It will continue until Obama gets a spot of flu, whereupon they will feel vindicated that God's terrible vengeance has been fulfilled.
Sad and embarassing and i actually feel sorry for most christians over this sort of thing.
Posted by: Richard Eis | June 11, 2009 5:47 AM
Re: Lex talonis. I was brought up in the Jewish tradition, and was told that (human) life begins at birth. If this is the tradition (and I'm not confused by all the years that have passed since I learned this) this would explain why, in the OT, killing a fetus is not considered murder.
Posted by: Imunologist | June 11, 2009 2:14 PM