Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
This column by Pat Boone ranks up there with the most hysterical (as in filled with hysteria, not as in funny) screeds you'll ever read. In Pat's fevered imagination, the country is on the verge of throwing Christians into the ovens in death camps. It really has to be read to be believed. After invoking the Christians being thrown to the lions in ancient Rome, he wanders off into cloudcuckoo land:
But now that time is seeming less distant! Our new president, his administration, a Congress and much of the judiciary ruled by ultra-liberal, "progressive" and humanistic men and women, egged on and abetted by the ACLU, are actively making plans and devising bills that will force Christians to either obey the new laws, or be fined, jailed - or who knows? Perhaps physically punished, imprisoned, or worse.You think I'm exaggerating? Think again.
No, I don't think you're exaggerating. I think you're out of your fucking mind. And abysmally ignorant or dishonest when you make claims like this:
We've already surrendered the freedom for our children to pray voluntarily at school.
Bullshit. Children pray every single day in school, separately and in groups, spontaneously and in organized events sponsored by Bible clubs and prayer groups. Their right to do so is legally protected. But praying voluntarily does not include the right to make other kids involuntarily take part or sit through your prayers. Rational people understand the difference, which is of course why Pat does not recognize it.
Teachers have been fired and students expelled for mentioning God in the classroom or praying before a game. Judges have been removed from the bench because they portrayed the Ten Commandments in the courtroom or in front of the courthouse.
Which has nothing to do with religious freedom. Teachers and judges are public employees and what they do when performing their official duties is not a matter of religious liberty, it is a matter of government expression. Again, rational people can understand that distinction.
The bottom line: Like it or not, believe it or not, the end times seem to be drawing near. And unless we Christians exercise our freedoms and our faith, collectively, unapologetically and openly, we will most certainly be facing different, though still savage and deadly, lions.
Utter stupidity.
Politics
Comments
"Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
Or something like that.
Posted by: kehrsam | June 17, 2009 9:26 AM
And unless we Christians exercise our freedoms and our faith, collectively, unapologetically and openly, we will most certainly be facing different, though still savage and deadly, lions
Sane people are the new "savage and deadly lions" it would appear. But more than that, he spent the rest of his rant declaring that WHEN Christians express their faith unapologetically and openly, they get punished. So he sees inciting punishiment as the only way to avoid it.
Posted by: Odie | June 17, 2009 9:27 AM
Ed, you didn't listen to Pat's warning:
In order to celebrate his continued descent into madness I was going to link to Pat Boone's swing-band cover of Ozzy Osbourne's "Crazy Train", but the song was taken off of youtube for some reason. :( I'd like to think that it was taken down not for copyright reasons, but instead for being freekin' terrible.
Posted by: Imrryr | June 17, 2009 9:44 AM
Now go be a good little rapture monkey and stock up on Nikes, jogging suits, and Kool-aid. Oh, and guns--lots and lots of guns.
Posted by: ennui | June 17, 2009 9:53 AM
From the standpoint of someone who recently ejected themselves from the religious right, I never in my 32 years of servitude to Christianity once witnessed anything even remotely resembling persecution - other than what the church dreamed up in it's fear mongering attempts to gain converts.
Boone's hysteria is little short of ridiculous nonsense and a detachment from reality that is driving folks away from the established churches by the tens of thousands. Keep it up Pat!
Posted by: Howard | June 17, 2009 9:54 AM
When Pat posted "...- or who knows? Perhaps physically punished..." -
no doubt he was trembling with excitement and salivating, imagining himself wearing nothing but an over-sized diaper, and cooing "I've been a weally, weally bad liddle boy. Spank me, mommy!"* :) - DJ
*Now that's an image that you'll be telling your therapist about for weeks and weeks I bet. Bwahahahahahaha.
Posted by: DingoJack | June 17, 2009 9:57 AM
Given how much the Christian Right lionizes (pun intended) the Christian martyrs persecuted by the Roman Empire, I'm suprised Pat's not looking forward to the chance to be "physically punished, imprisoned, or worse..."
And Christians have been predicting that the end times are drawing nigh ever since Paul (of Epistle fame). Still hasn't happened yet, guys!
Posted by: Adrienne | June 17, 2009 10:07 AM
Posted by: MarkW | June 17, 2009 10:09 AM
Thanks, DJ, thanks a lot! Now I'll have to spend the next few hours thinking about bleach and scouring pads to get rid of the image...
Posted by: Satcomguy | June 17, 2009 10:12 AM
Never mind. I'm guessing it's to do with this?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/biblestudy.asp
Posted by: MarkW | June 17, 2009 10:17 AM
Further to DJ's comment: I have also often thought recently that the Christian Right are wannabe subs in a SM relationship, but the party they want to be their dom doesn't actually swing that way, and isn't all that interested in them. This frustrates the hell out of them, so they have to make up ever more outrageous fantasies to feed their fetish.
Posted by: Eamon Knight | June 17, 2009 10:20 AM
@MarkW
It really happened, sort of. No one was arrested. They were told they needed a permit. The issue was with land use, traffic and parking issues the weekly meetings caused. The county eventually decided they don't need a permit after all.
Posted by: Abby Normal | June 17, 2009 10:22 AM
Sorry, screwed up the second link. Here's the correct one
Posted by: Abby Normal | June 17, 2009 10:25 AM
Thanks Eamon Knight, precisely and concisely the point I think was aiming for.
Can't type, like Satcomguy, bleaching brain. - DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | June 17, 2009 10:30 AM
@ MarkW There was a case in San Diego that really stirred the fundies. A couple was holding bible study in their home and they were told they needed a permit. The fuss is over.
Posted by: Anneliese | June 17, 2009 10:30 AM
Thanks Abby and Anneliese.
Posted by: MarkW | June 17, 2009 10:38 AM
You see this kind of thing from Christianists all the time. You see, because they want to imprison US for not believing what they believe, they project and assume WE want to imprison THEM. Ah, how I love the small minded...
Posted by: J | June 17, 2009 11:01 AM
Totally OT. I watched an episode of "Family Guy" in which Peter is injected with 'the Gay gene'. One piece of dialog seems appropriate here: (I paraphrase)
- :D DJPosted by: DingoJack | June 17, 2009 11:06 AM
Posted by: Taz | June 17, 2009 11:25 AM
He is worried about following the new laws when some of them don't follow the old ones yet.
@DJ #6 I didnt picture so much a diaper as a wet suit or two and, well, I think you all know the rest.
Posted by: mr p | June 17, 2009 11:41 AM
Damn this guy is a tool. Apparently the ACLU is "actively making plans and devising bills," but he can't be bothered to actually name a bill or even describe a 'plan.' What really bugs me though is less his complete failure to back up his argument with actual empirical evidence (Would the name of one of these supposed bills be too much to ask for Pat?) but his complete and utter failure to read the "evidence" (read bible verse) that he does provide.
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith...
– 1 Timothy 4:1,
But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God...
– 2 Timothy 3:1-5"
When *exactly* have those two things *not* been true, Pat Boone?
Posted by: GBM | June 17, 2009 11:50 AM
To all those biblical scholars out there - Didn't the early church fathers discourage martyrdom, because the church was starting to look like the US Religious Right's version of Christianity, a mere sado-masochistic death cult, bad PR for the brand!
GBM - Doesn't 2 Tim 3:1-5* sound a lot like the Pat's cohorts and colleagues? - DJ
_________________________
*
Posted by: DingoJack | June 17, 2009 12:12 PM
When *exactly* have those two things *not* been true, Pat Boone?
Pat lives in the fantasy land where the 1950s were a golden time of goodness and prosperity, where everyone was a good, white, Christian, all believed as he believed, and everyone was honest, loving, and obedient. Think Leave it to Beaver, the episode where Wally and Theodore go to Bible Camp for all eternity.
Posted by: dogmeatIB | June 17, 2009 12:25 PM
Wow, it would be a huge task to imprison all Christians, since they make up over 75% of our country. But at the rate we're imprisoning people, I bet we could manage it.
Posted by: catgirl | June 17, 2009 12:40 PM
Pat lives in the fantasy land... Does anyone have a screenshot of that film from the 1950s (or was it early 1960s?) where pat Boone, naked, is grabbing a sheep and pulling it to him, while a couple of nuns are standing nearby?
Posted by: mark | June 17, 2009 12:41 PM
I never knew Pat was a Kiwi! :D = DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | June 17, 2009 12:46 PM
@ 25
Journey to the Center of the Earth1959 with James Mason. Really cool movie if you're about 10 at the time.
Posted by: natural cynic | June 17, 2009 1:15 PM
Blessed are the Cheesemakers.
Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.
Posted by: bob crane | June 17, 2009 1:24 PM
Wait, did he just use the word "humanistic" as an insult? What the hell? How does that even work?
Posted by: Iason Ouabache | June 17, 2009 1:33 PM
Iason, did you miss 'Pat Boone, tightly clutching sheep to his naked body'?
Animalistic is all he knows! ;) - DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | June 17, 2009 1:43 PM
Once again the mean and nasty minority victimizes the helpless and powerless majority.
Somewhere in Boone's demented old brain there is probably a link between AGW reporting and fear mongering but nothing between his BS and fear mongering.
I guess the one backed by science has to be ignored while the one backed by a grip on his testicles and 'common sense' is really, really true.
Posted by: GaryB, FCD | June 17, 2009 1:48 PM
By 'the one' I meant idea, not link.
I do excel at stupid.
Posted by: GaryB, FCD | June 17, 2009 1:50 PM
"We've already surrendered the freedom for our children to pray voluntarily at school."
As long as there are tests given in schools, there will be plenty of children praying.
Posted by: Tom | June 17, 2009 1:51 PM
It was a lot more complex than that. In Pagans and Christians Robin Lane Fox gives a tremendous survey of Roman Empire religious practices, and one of his conclusions is that converts almost always cited the example of martyrs when explaining why they converted. Other reasons cited were how Christian groups provided for their own and how they were in possession of an apparently ancient text. In any case, true persecution has almost always resulted in a spreading of the faith.
Posted by: kehrsam | June 17, 2009 1:53 PM
"We've already surrendered the freedom for our children to pray voluntarily at school."
The students I have every you who break out the Bible following a test, during a free period/study time, etc... are all breaking the law? I'll beat some sense into them next year!!! [/end sarcasm]
Posted by: dogmeatIB | June 17, 2009 2:10 PM
Pat needs to tell us if he honestly thinks life and the American social order were better in his youth 50 years ago. Aside from the possible, occasional sharing of a TBN fundraising stage with TD Jakes, I'm not aware or convinced that Boone has embraced a person of color since he costarred with Erik Estrada in "The Cross and the Switchblade."
Posted by: Jon Lester | June 17, 2009 2:30 PM
Every day, I wish that I could be "persecuted" in the way that Christians are "persecuted" in this country. That would be SO awesome.
For instance, the IRS could "persecute" my tax returns by giving me tax exempt status for any money spent in the course of a sinful activity.
The White House could "persecute" my beliefs by proclaiming a National Day of Not Praying, and inviting a nontheist speaker to give a speech at the capitol.
Politicians could "persecute" me by pushing for a constitutional amendment to enforce my own personal preferences on other people. For instance, they could "persecute" me by making it a federal crime to play so-called "new country" on the radio. There is a slippery slope argument, after all... once you ruin country music, the next thing you will be ruining music for children (peodophonia), ruining music for dogs (bestiaudioality), ruining multiple genres of music at the same time (polycrappy)...
I could be "persecuted" by having my personal idiosyncratic opinions added to high school curricula. They could "teach the controversy" in history class by presenting both sides: the side where James Sweet is not king of the world, and the side where I am. After all, the kids can make up their own minds!
Yes, I can only dream to be "persecuted" like that. It must be so wonderful...
Posted by: James Sweet | June 17, 2009 2:33 PM
Imrryr, you don't spend a lot of time on YouTube, do you? ;-)
To expand on Howard's point at #5, I can think of some genuine religious persecution that has taken place in America - Puritans whipping and hanging Baptists and Quakers, for example, or the abuse of Mormons and the murder of Joseph Smith. It's always the more conservative Christians doing the persecuting, though.
Posted by: Scott Hanley | June 17, 2009 2:46 PM
On June 17, 2009 12:40 PM, posted:
Wow, it would be a huge task to imprison all Christians, since they make up over 75% of our country. But at the rate we're imprisoning people, I bet we could manage it.
One of the defining characteristics of these nutjobs is they think that THEY are "Real Christians"™, and most of the other people who call themselves Christians are just deceiving themselves.
Posted by: Blue Nine | June 17, 2009 2:51 PM
Except you still get to count them any time you want to enjoy the benefits of a Christian majority. Depending on the observation we're trying to make, the may or not qualify - sort of Schroedinger Christians.
Posted by: Scott Hanley | June 17, 2009 3:10 PM
I wish the rapture would happen already and get rid of all these annoying, ignorant xtians! :)
Posted by: Terri Mitchell | June 17, 2009 3:32 PM
When encountering someone who declares they are a "Christian," put one hand over your wallet and the other over your gonads.
Posted by: mediajackal | June 17, 2009 3:34 PM
no doubt he was trembling with excitement and salivating, imagining himself wearing nothing but an over-sized diaper, and cooing "I've been a weally, weally bad liddle boy. Spank me, mommy!"* :) - DJ
perhaps this
or this
Posted by: Uncle Glenny | June 17, 2009 3:41 PM
Rah, lions.
Posted by: speedwell | June 17, 2009 3:43 PM
Terri, the rapture is happening May 22, 2011.
I was driving back to the bay area from the valley yesterday evening, and I heard it* on a Christian radio station, so it must be true.
* I really did hear it - the radio preacher said God tells us in the Bible, too clearly to have any doubt or to be ignored, that May 22 2011 is the day. You just need to read the bible and get rid of your sinful doubt. For realsies.
Posted by: Lee | June 17, 2009 3:54 PM
@ Uncle Glenny:
Oh, I like the leather one. I think I saw him - or someone who looks just like him - in our local public dungeon the other night, suffering from an overbearing case of Top's Disease*.
*http://www.steel-door.com/tops_disease.htm
Posted by: Lee | June 17, 2009 3:59 PM
"...the country is on the verge of throwing Christians into the ovens in death camps."
Maybe we should indulge him. I've met him. He's a first rate asshole.
Posted by: TomTallis | June 17, 2009 4:14 PM
@ Lee:
I think there's one of him in a leatherman's harness, but I didn't bother to look further for it.
As for the rapture, I usually check in on rapture-ready to see the rapture index, but I don't think he's been very sensitive to current events for some time. I'm pretty sure he missed all the volcanic eruptions (since last fall, Russia, Japan, Alaska, and strange movement around the potential Yellowstone supervolcano, which I think was actually Dick Cheney remodelling), for one.
Posted by: Uncle Glenny | June 17, 2009 4:18 PM
Isn't there somewhere in the Bible that says anyone who predicts the Rapture is automatically wrong? I have such a terrible memory so I don't know which book/verse it is, but I know it's in there somewhere. As a teenager, I had this idea that we could hold of the Rapture indefinitely simply by continuously predicting that it will be tomorrow.
Posted by: catgirl | June 17, 2009 4:24 PM
The end times seem to be drawing near? So what is Pat’s problem with that? If they face the lions, they’ll just go to heaven—right? After all, it’s a sin to prevent Jesus from returning, for example by halting the settlements in Palestine and by working for a Palestinian state. Right?
Or maybe none of them really believes it after all? Today’s Christians pretty much act like they have to establish Jesus Land here on earth, because there’s none of it in the afterlife. So many Christians today act like there is no afterlife – which, of course, there isn’t.
Posted by: Kristine | June 17, 2009 4:49 PM
Well it looks like Pat Boone has joined the ranks along with Ben Stein, Ray Comfort, Kirk Cameron,Bill O'Reilly and other members of the religious right who are starting to feel frightened by the way things are going. They are spokesmen for the deluded. Think of the money that the churches will lose if non-belief becomes the norm. The churches will have to get some money from the Feds as a stimulus package for lost revenue :>{. And what will all those pastors, preachers, and other assorted holy men do when their flocks diminish?
Lets face it, religion is a huge business as long as the brainwashed are willing to devote huge sums of money for an
an imaginary salvation. Brainwashing of the religious type starts at home with deluded parents forcing fanciful beliefs on their children. Jesus Camp come to mind. We can only hope common sense will prevail.
Posted by: Aaspentroll | June 17, 2009 4:51 PM
Lee:
This would be Harold Camping of Family Radio.
I just hope he lives to see that he is wrong.
Harold would say that Pat Boone is not a Christian since all True Christians left the Church in 1988 since God is done using the Church.
Posted by: KeithB | June 17, 2009 5:36 PM
Actually, the rapture happened back in 2004, marked by a slight (0.15 million) uptick in the missing persons rate. All that's left is about six billion sinners (and possibly the 72 tzaddakim).
Posted by: abb3w | June 17, 2009 5:44 PM
Pat Boone has been spreading his brand of xianity for over forty years. He was raised in the ultra-conservative Church of Christ denomination. He lost a large part of his xian fans when he appeared at the Grammys dressed in a leather harness. His show on Trinity Broadcast System was cancelled. He was eventually forgiven and he still continues his right wing nuttery
Posted by: wrpd | June 17, 2009 7:40 PM
Pat Boone is right. I often wonder just what those FEMA camps are for. Will they put me in one for not obeying theier global warming precautions and dire rules for survival (taxation of the highest order). Will they put me in for exercising my second amendment constitutional rights? Will they put me in for obeying the Bible and preaching out against sin and wrong doing (gay mariage, abortion, porn, etc.)?
Only God know what those FEMA camps will hold in a few years. Pat Boone, you better start teaching wilderness survival classes so we can escape to the wilderness to survive the coming Obamanation.
I already bought plenty of ammo and supplies as well as wilderness/ Special forces survival techniques books. So have many others.
Posted by: Kuckoo | June 17, 2009 8:50 PM
Imrryr:
"In order to celebrate his continued descent into madness I was going to link to Pat Boone's swing-band cover of Ozzy Osbourne's "Crazy Train", but the song was taken off of youtube for some reason."
I was driving from Omaha to Oswego, NY (why, one might ask) and had XM's "RawDog" comedy channel on. The song played and I listened to about 1:30 of it before I realized that it wasn't a parody of Pat Boone, droning out those lyrics, but the genuine article. I've seen both him and Barry Manilow in that "biker" look--all I can think of is, "Village People".
Posted by: democommie | June 17, 2009 8:59 PM
I hope Kuckoo's comments were intended as parody, but these days, it's hard to be sure.
Posted by: daniel rotter | June 17, 2009 9:15 PM
@ Dingojack & Kehsram
AFAIK martyrdom for the earliest Christians was practically by choice. Standard operating procedure (at least near the time of Trajan) was not to look for Christians, nor to accept anonymous accusations. If one was brought before a magistrate, then they were told that the penalty for being a christian was death, and then they were given an opportunity to recant. Also they tended to focus on the clergy to the exclusion of the laity , mostly. There were periods where the persecution was a bit more serious, and it certainly was bad, most Christians of Boone's stripe seem to pretend that the Roman Empire was attempting it's own version of the final solution, and it was definitely nothing like that.
My own view is that persecution sorta kinda works for Christianity, it probably helped Christianity in the Roman Empire, but it didn't end up helping very much in Japan, or most of the Middle East.
Posted by: GBM | June 17, 2009 10:06 PM
Daniel Rotter stated:
Parody. They give themself away by using three paragraphs. An authentic wingnut is content with just one no matter how long the diatribe.
Posted by: Michael Heath | June 17, 2009 10:26 PM
Let's see (by their own assessments):
Catholics ~ 30% of the population - Not Christian
Atheists and Agnostics ~ 15% of the population - Not Christian
Jews ~ 5% of the population - Not Christian
Muslims ~ 5% of the population - Not Christian
Mormons ~ 3 % of the population - Not Christian
Other non-fundamental divisions ~ 30% of the population - Not Christian
Fundies (the only REAL Christians) ~ 12% hardly a majority
Posted by: Blaidd Drwg | June 17, 2009 11:46 PM
I think kehrsam has the relevant bible dealy behind all this persecution bullshit the religious right is constantly fucking on about.
They think their bible tells them they'll be persecuted for being xtians. The idea of xtians actually being persecuted in the US is so wrong it's laughable but if they're not being persecuted, they're not real xtians. So they invent a persecution where none exists. It lets them be martyrs w/o having to deal w/ the bothersome chore of actually being martyred. Add to that that nothing riles up the constantly fearful base more than the idea that at any moment now ACORN death squads will come to round them up and you've got a win-win meme.
You've got a minority of people who know better but push the idea anyway as a means to motivate their power base and the ignorant majority who are convinced that it's true. They're so terrified of it they should be wearing cross emblazoned diapers and are willing to go along w/ anything else as long as their elected father figures protect them from the persecution that's never coming.
That's my take on it anyway.
Posted by: tincture | June 18, 2009 12:06 AM
@61
Let's see if I remember my early Christian history right...
The thing about Christianity was that, originally, it was a religion for the oppressed (slaves, for example). The Christian philosophy was about giving hope and comfort to the powerless.
Then, Emperor Constantine came along and decided he wanted to get into the game. When the rich and powerful adopt a religion that was originally meant for the powerless, it's going to result in a lot of cognitive dissonance. One of these forms of dissonance is people like Pat Boone dreaming up oppressions where none exist.
Posted by: Finch | June 18, 2009 1:18 AM
-Parody. They give themself away by using three paragraphs. An authentic wingnut is content with just one no matter how long the diatribe.-
and correct use of grammar and capitalisation.
I thought Pat was looking forward to the end-times. It would give him something to gloat about while the world suffers...
Posted by: Richard Eis | June 18, 2009 4:18 AM
tincture:
Thank you for this:
"They're so terrified of it they should be wearing cross emblazoned diapers..."
prior to reading that I did not have visions of satanic, bf'ing vampires roaming around in my skull.
Posted by: democommie | June 18, 2009 6:29 AM
Waaahhh! The nasty ACLU won't let me impose my beliefs on everyone else. Waahhh! I'm a persecuted minority!!
Posted by: BaldApe | June 18, 2009 9:13 AM
Yes Pat, "they're coming to take you away. ha ha, they're coming to take [you] away. Ho, ho , hee hee. To the funny farm, where life is beautiful all the time..." - :) DJ
Posted by: DingoJack | June 18, 2009 10:55 AM
I don't want to mercilessly torture all Christians for my own amusement. Just Pat Boone.
Posted by: Hot Pork Injection | June 18, 2009 1:42 PM
this guy isn't a christian. christians aren't nutbag paranoids. this guy is mentally ill, and someone is paying him for it. amazing. wish i was sufficiently crazy that some organization would annoint(get it?) me as a spokesperson. what a jag.
Posted by: peter | June 18, 2009 11:54 PM
"this guy isn't a christian. christians aren't nutbag paranoids."
Like being a Christian and being a nutbag paranoid are automatically mutually exclusive. One can behave consistently with every word of the Bible and still be a nutbag paranoid.
Posted by: daniel rotter | June 19, 2009 1:08 AM
"actively making plans and devising bills that will force Christians to either obey the new laws, or be fined, jailed... "
HORROR!
Christians being expected to follow the law? What disgusting perversion is this of our Divinely Inspired Christian Constition? The Founding Fathers would be spinning in their graves to hear such harsh oppression forcing True Americans to abide by the law!
Posted by: Captain Obvious | June 19, 2009 6:51 AM
I did not think it was possible to have a bigger asshole than Michael Moore in Michigan, but it appears Ed has taken the crown.
Posted by: mike | June 19, 2009 8:46 AM
Mike:
I gather you don't live there.
Posted by: democommie | June 19, 2009 10:28 AM
"I did not think it was possible to have a bigger asshole than Michael Moore in Michigan, but it appears Ed has taken the crown."
I didn't know Pete Hoekstra's actual first name is "Ed."
Posted by: daniel rotter | June 19, 2009 9:57 PM
Christians in the west are really stupid. They dont know how good they have it here. In the rest of the world (Islamic country's, asia..) THEY (eastern christians) are persecuted!
Posted by: Infidel | June 23, 2009 10:23 AM
@74:
I have personal issues with the "Stop complaining, group X has it way worse in country Y!" argument. You may have a point regarding the treatment of Christians, but the same argument is used a lot against people who really DO have legitimate complaints about their treatment in the US (or other western countries). For example, men try to use "Women have it way worse in the Middle East! Be grateful nobody is stoning you!" to shut down feminist criticism all the time.
Posted by: Finch | June 23, 2009 10:29 AM
Finch:
The issue would be significantly different if American women were treating men the same way women are treated in the Middle East, and whining about how opressed they are because they aren't allowed to legally set any man they want on fire for the fun of it. Complaining about persecution WHEN YOU ARE THE PERSECUTOR is always a load of bullshit, especially when it trivializes the plight of people who are actually persecuted. The christians whining about how horribly oppressed they are because not every disagreement with their cult is treated as a capital crime are lying assholes, and they need to be publicly ridiculed as such.
Posted by: phantomreader42 | June 23, 2009 11:37 AM
wert
Posted by: Rob | June 25, 2009 5:27 PM
Wow I get the feeling alot of liberals are posting here (Im a christian and...) yea ok. Science is all about the facts so lets look at some. Obama gave a speech at a CATHOLIC university and had the name of Jesus covered up...hmm.Lets look at "hate speech legislation". Oppose gay marriage? You must be silenced!!! b.o. says "we are not a christian nation"...oh really,the founding fathers might have had something to say about that.All you anti-christian people just know one thing- WE WIN!!! read the book of revelation.
Posted by: Rob | June 25, 2009 5:39 PM
Rob,
What you didn't hear? The rapture already happened and you got left behind. Its because you're a sanctimonious asshole.
Posted by: Paul Snyder | June 25, 2009 5:45 PM
Ed your article is brilliant.I really loved "you're out of your f-ing mind" I hope your parents didnt spend too much for your education.
Posted by: Tony T. | June 25, 2009 5:49 PM
That was a fine post Paul. You've really opened my mind up.
Posted by: Rob | June 25, 2009 5:51 PM
Lol he must have went to school w/ ED
Posted by: Tony T. | June 25, 2009 5:53 PM
Yea...and Paul Catholics dont believe in the Rapture.Get your "hate speech" right. I'll pray for you Paul.God bless
Posted by: Rob | June 25, 2009 5:56 PM
Ha its an invasion of the Boonians! If I have no interest in opening up your mind, Rob. Apparently you have no use for it. Thump your chest a bit more and before you tell me that you'll pray for me.
Posted by: Paul Snyder | June 25, 2009 6:00 PM
Relax, were all Brothers in Jesus. And another thing, Mom said it's your turn to put the trash out!
Posted by: Rob | June 25, 2009 6:06 PM
"I'll pray for you Paul."
Just a reminder: in Christard lingo, "I'll pray for you" is what they consider an appropriate substitute for "fuck you."
Posted by: Tyler DiPietro | June 25, 2009 6:09 PM
Tyler, thats very interesting indeed.
Posted by: Rob | June 25, 2009 6:16 PM
I know, Rob. I know.
Posted by: Tyler DiPietro | June 25, 2009 6:20 PM
Rob wrote:
And therefore....what? Therefore Christians are about to be thrown to the lions?
What hate speech legislation? There is no such legislation that I'm aware. There is hate crimes legislation, but that is something entirely different and has nothing whatsoever to do with silencing those who oppose gay marriage. There are millions of people who oppose gay marriage and they are free to speak their minds. They do so every day and no one tries to stop them.
Some of them certainly would and the best among them would agree with Obama. Those men wrote a constitution that is devoid of all religious references and one that protects the rights of all people regardless of their religious views (an idea explicitly rejected in the Bible). There isn't a single idea in the constitution that can be traced to the Bible or to Christian theology. We are a nation whose population is mostly Christian; but our founding documents were based upon Enlightenment philosophy, not Christianity.
Posted by: Ed Brayton | June 25, 2009 6:41 PM
Im looking at a dollar bill- it doesnt say "in enlightenment we trust".
Posted by: Rob | June 25, 2009 6:52 PM
Im looking at a dollar bill- it doesnt say "in enlightenment we trust".
Posted by: Rob | June 25, 2009 6:54 PM
Read the declaration of independence
Posted by: Rob | June 25, 2009 6:56 PM
"In God we trust" on our currency didn't start until 1957, when all the founding fathers were too busy pushing up daisies to complain.
Posted by: Brandon | June 25, 2009 6:59 PM
Really smart people you should read- C.K. Chesterson,C.S Lewis, Albert Einstein....
Posted by: Rob | June 25, 2009 6:59 PM
Truly smart men who werent blinded by pride.
Posted by: Rob | June 25, 2009 7:02 PM
Read Chesterton's Orthodoxy. Itll blow your mind
Posted by: Rob | June 25, 2009 7:12 PM
Read Chesterton's Orthodoxy. Itll blow your mind
No thanks. For all things mind-blowing I rely on the early music of Pink Floyd and the Moody Blues.
Posted by: Sadie Morrison | June 25, 2009 7:16 PM
I love Pink Floyd. Which ones Pink?
Posted by: Rob | June 25, 2009 7:21 PM
"When a man stops believing in God, he doesnt believe in nothing, he believes in anything"- C.K. Chesterton
Posted by: Tom | June 25, 2009 7:38 PM
Now you've done it Tom, you've made people think!
Posted by: Rob | June 25, 2009 7:41 PM
90-92:
The enlighteners believed in God. Though it's not clear "Nature's God" is the God of the Bible. If He is, it's still using "reason" (not Bible or Church tradition) to understand Him. That's the way the enlighteners approached God.
Posted by: Jon Rowe | June 25, 2009 8:10 PM
Isn't it "G" "K" not "C" "K" Chresterton?
Posted by: Jon Rowe | June 25, 2009 8:15 PM
Chesterton that is.
Posted by: Jon Rowe | June 25, 2009 8:21 PM
His Mother called him Charlie
Posted by: Victoria S. | June 25, 2009 8:26 PM
If your name was Gilbert you'd ask to be called Charlie too! It says GK on my all his books.
Posted by: Timbo | June 25, 2009 8:36 PM
Faith and reason go hand in hand. Do you love your mother? Show me the science to prove it.
Posted by: Rob | June 25, 2009 8:42 PM
The riddles of God are more satisfying than the solutions of man- Chesterton
Posted by: Damon | June 25, 2009 8:59 PM
Love it! "If there were no God there would be no athiests"-GK Chesterton
Posted by: DJ Hicks | June 25, 2009 9:02 PM
Rob et al. -
"{A}... queasy undergraduate scratching his pimples"* - Dorothy Parker on Chesterton.
If you can show me some evidence supporting a persuasive argument that backs up your idiotic claims, then I'll be impressed. - DJ
__________
*unsourced quote-mining can be fun, but, in itself, it's meaningless!
Posted by: DingoJack | June 25, 2009 10:58 PM
"Blessed is the Nation whose God is the Lord"
Psalm 33:12.....
Posted by: ScottishGirl | September 8, 2009 12:59 PM