Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of 
You've probably seen this Youtube video of Rep. Mike Castle, a Republican from Delaware, having a town hall meeting that was packed with wingnuts. One lady stands up and goes all birther on it, claiming that her birth certificate shows that she's a citizen of the United States; I think her performance shows that she's a citizen of the loonisphere.
"Congressman Castle, I want to know. I have a birth certificate here from the United States of America saying I'm an American citizen, with a seal on it. Signed by a doctor, with a hospital administrator's name, my parents, the date of birth, the time, the date. I want to go back to January 20th and I want to know why are you people ignoring his birth certificate? [Applause and cheers.] He is not an American citizen! He is a citizen of Kenya!"
But she wasn't the only nutcase roaming free that night. The meeting was packed with them and they asked some seriously crazy questions:
Audience member: "Do you have any idea what that cap and trade tax thing, bill that you passed is going to do to the Suffolk County poultry industry? That's how chicken houses are heated, with propane. It outputs CO2. I mean, I'm outputting CO2 right now as I speak. Trees need CO2 to make oxygen! You can't tax that!"
I'll see that ignoramus and raise you one fucking moron:
Audience member: "I'm actually hopeful that this vote that you made was a vote to put you out of office. [Raucous applause and cheers.] ... You know, on this energy thing, I showed you, I had in my email to you numerous times there are petitions signed by 31,000 scientists that that know and have facts that CO2 emissions have nothing to do and the greenhouse effect has nothing to do with global warming. It's all a hoax! [Applause.] First of all, I cannot for the life of me understand how you could have been one of the eight Republican traitors!" [Applause and whoops.]
I think you're bluffing. I'll raise you a raving lunatic:
Audience member: "It's still a theory, so is Darwin's theory of evolution! And yet we have the audacity to say global warming is accurate, it's more than a theory? How about how cold it's been this spring. Personal data, data shows that since 1998 average temperatures have been cooling!"
I'm all in:
Audience member: "The virus was built and created in Fort Dix, a small bioweapons plant outside of Fort Dix. This was engineered. This thing didn't just crop up in a cave or a swine farm. This thing was engineered, the virus. Pasteur International, one of the big vaccine companies in Chicago, has been caught sending AIDS-infected vaccines to Africa. Do you think I trust -- I don't trust you with anything. You think I'm going to trust you to put a needle full of dead baby juice and monkey kidneys? Cause that's what this stuff is grown on, dead babies!"
Holy shit. I fold. Here's a video of these questions:
Politics
Comments
This is undoubtedly good news for John McCain...
{/Atrios}
Posted by: NJ | July 23, 2009 10:41 AM
Wow. Just...wow.
Posted by: Will Cowan | July 23, 2009 10:51 AM
You have to wonder how they all had the brainpower to make it to the meeting place on the right day at the right time.
What a waste of oxygen.
Posted by: MikeMa | July 23, 2009 10:52 AM
One has to feel a little sympathy for Representative Castle who has no option but the stand there and take it from these whackjobs. Of course, the whackjob nuttery has been sown by the Karl Roves of the world who sold out the Rethuglican Party to them and now the good representative reaps the harvest.
Posted by: SLC | July 23, 2009 10:55 AM
They are like three-year-olds.
"And, and, and then, we saw the monkeys, monkeys, they swing and banana, they eat bananas and the bear, the monkeys eat bananas but the bear, and the zeebers and then I had juice and see my knee I got an owie and bananas. And, and, Kenya."
Posted by: xebecs | July 23, 2009 11:00 AM
Wow this is experimental validation of the theory of crank magnetism?
http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2007/06/crank_magnetism_1.php
(also, posting from preview is still screwed up :P)
Posted by: JohnV | July 23, 2009 11:13 AM
My philosophy is always to follow the money. Dollars to donuts, that last guy is shilling for the organic dead baby juice producers.
Posted by: carlsonjok | July 23, 2009 11:20 AM
No, Castle did not have to just stand there and take it. He could have at least made an honest attempt to tell these people they were idiots. He could have said something like "Look, folks, I've been following the issues for [X] years, and I can tell you, you've been conned and you're spouting nonsense. Y'all need to find better sources of information, and shut the hell up until you're better informed."
Posted by: Raging Bee | July 23, 2009 11:24 AM
"Congressman Castle, I want to know. I have a birth certificate here from the United States of America saying I'm an American citizen, with a seal on it..."
Wow, that lady is lucky to have a BC from the United States of America. Mine happens to be from the state of Pennsylvania. Mine also dosen't specifically say anything about citizenship on it, you have to refer back to the Constitution for that.
Posted by: Mr P | July 23, 2009 11:32 AM
It shows you what an idiot this lady is when she says, "I have a birth certificate here from the United States of America saying I'm an American citizen, with a seal on it." If she means that she has a birth certificate issued to her from the United States government then it is clearly a forgery owing to the fact that the U.S. government does not issue birth certificates to the U.S. born. In the United States only state and territorial governments issue birth certificates.
Posted by: JLA | July 23, 2009 11:34 AM
Actually, I don't think she even has that.
She has a COPY of a certificate of live birth. Local governments don't give out original birth certificates.
Posted by: gwangung | July 23, 2009 11:39 AM
I attended a Town Hall meeting with my U.S. Congressman Bart Stupak MI-D 1st. District that was on or around the day the Teabaggers were first out and about a couple of months back.
We had one class of citizens asking extremely tough questions on issues Rep. Stupak was directly dealing with, i.e., they were issues that directly effected our district or were national issues where Stupak was on the relevant House Committee. A good example was how stimulus money was being appropriated amongst Michigan's schools to protect jobs given that Michigan's poplulation losses are naturally causing schools to either downsize or consolidate.
On the other hand we had social conservatives asking similar questions to what Ed posts here. The loopiest was that we needed to get rid of all manufacturing and go back to being just farmers.
You couldn't ask for two more distinctly different groups when it came to their worldviews and understanding of reality.
Posted by: Michael Heath | July 23, 2009 11:46 AM
I do not think I want to watch the video. It might be too painful.
But I have a question for everyone. Hasn't it occurred to the birthers that if Obama was not a US citizen that the Republican Party would have found proof of that by now? Or do the birthers think that the GOP is in on the act as well?
Posted by: Blue Nine | July 23, 2009 11:52 AM
Apparently, in-breeding took a sharp spike upward in Delaware when none of us were looking.
Posted by: CHV | July 23, 2009 11:55 AM
Did anyone see the clip at this same event of the crazy lady with the birth certificate from the United States of America shrieking at the crowd (after yelling at Mike Castle) to recite the pledge of allegiance before the Town Hall could continue?
It worked.
This is what happens when jingoism is mistaken for patriotism. It's also what happens when one eats lead paint chips off the windowsill as a child.
Posted by: CHV | July 23, 2009 12:27 PM
I'm British so I don't know if this was a typical crowd for a New England Republican meeting. I also don't know if the sensible questions have been edited out of the clip, but what I saw scares me. We don't normally get that degree of bile and stupidity outside of our Neo-Nazi British National Party.
The impression I picked up was that this is, if not exactly mainstream, not uncommon. I think the scariest bit to me was the Pledge of Allegiance, it didn't feel that far from 'Seig Heil, Seig Heil'.
I hope I'm wrong.
Posted by: JohnM55 | July 23, 2009 12:33 PM
Blue Nine asked:
I'm not sure about the second part (it's possible as far as some circles are concerned) but the first part is simply not in the nature of a conspiracy believer. To them the proof has already been found but the evil is covering it all up. In their minds they are the only ones, the bright and shiny knights, that are fighting for the sheep that have not only been mislead, but are just too lazy/ stupid to know it or perhaps in on it as well. The best way to illustrate how a conspiracy believer views the world is to watch the "girl in the red dress" scene from the first Matrix movie.
Posted by: AL Jeremy | July 23, 2009 12:54 PM
Lookup "Bellamy Salute" on Wikipedia, JohnM55. One form of ultra-nationalism does start to look a lot like another. It seems like maybe 10% of our nation is infected with this shit. That would be bad enough, but the otherwise mainstream Republican party has built a coalition that needs that 10% to win victories, which leaves them dictating terms to another ~40%.
Posted by: Nentuaby | July 23, 2009 12:59 PM
It shows you what an idiot this lady is when she says, "I have a birth certificate here from the United States of America saying I'm an American citizen, with a seal on it."
Yes, but where's her high school diploma? We need the LONG FORM of that, nothing else will do.
Blue Nine: I ask that question every time a birfer shows up, and they NEVER answer it. They never even acknowledge it. I don't think I have to tell you why.
Posted by: Raging Bee | July 23, 2009 1:07 PM
I think Jon Stewart had the last word on the birthers in his brilliant skewing of the whole phony controversy. I especially liked his slamming of Lou Dobbs raising the issue only a few days after it was debunked on his own show.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-22-2009/the-born-identity
Also, does anyone know where the "31,000" scientist factoid comes from? Is it from this video or is that some meme propagating through the right-loonisphere? Stewart raised this as well in his interview with Steven Chu a couple nights ago.
Posted by: neokortex | July 23, 2009 1:19 PM
JohnM55 - For what little it's worth, Delaware is not a New England state (which are all in the upper northeast corner: Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut).
But you're spot on regarding the "Sieg Heil" parallelism. So far not one of the pro-war-on-Iraq advocates (who like to shout "Victory!" at us anti-war types) whom I've spoken with has known that "S.H." translates as "Hail Victory!"
Posted by: Pierce R. Butler | July 23, 2009 1:23 PM
For what little it's worth, Delaware is not a New England state (which are all in the upper northeast corner: Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut).
Sorry - and we brits have the nerve to complain about the average American's lack of geographical knowledge.
Posted by: JohnM55 | July 23, 2009 1:35 PM
Re Raging Bee @ #8
Does Mr. Bee think for one moment that Representative Castle make such a statement would have shut up the nutcases at his town meeting? I suspect that more likely they would have started a riot and forced him out of the building.
Posted by: SLC | July 23, 2009 1:35 PM
Sussex county, not Suffolk county
Posted by: Z man | July 23, 2009 1:45 PM
Am I stating the obvious here, or are most of the nutbags seen at this Town Hall (and others like it) retirees?
If so, it would explain their misplaced level of energy levied against a daily routine of waking up at 5AM, reading the newspaper cover to cover, eating a poached egg, drinking a pot of black coffee, listening to Beck, cleaning the cat box, listening to Limbaugh, getting the mail, reading whacko blogs, listening to Hannity, yelling at those damned kids to get the hell off their lawn before watching O'Reilly with a brandy-spiked Ensure, and patrolling their gardens in search of tomato lice before nodding off around 10PM.
Posted by: CHV | July 23, 2009 2:22 PM
Hey, I'm sure it's *all* New England, from a Brit's point of view.
Posted by: xebecs | July 23, 2009 2:28 PM
Kent and Sussex Counties represent what we call 'slower' Delaware. They are the 2 rural southern counties in a 3 county state. New Castle County is the mostly urban, northern county with the city of Wilmington and I95 - what most people think of when you say Delaware. New Castle has loons too but nowhere near as many as slower Delaware. Slower indeed.
Posted by: MikeMa | July 23, 2009 2:30 PM
I sure hope we don't a GOP president or congress for a long, long time, otherwise we're in deep trouble. They desperately need to find a way to rid the party of wingnuts, and bring their average IQ up to a safer level.
Posted by: dave | July 23, 2009 2:45 PM
Does Mr. Bee think for one moment that Representative Castle make such a statement would have shut up the nutcases at his town meeting? I suspect that more likely they would have started a riot and forced him out of the building.
I tend to agree with SLC that a riot would have been forthcoming. The best manuever would have been to slowly creep toward the door, giving slight head nods and walking backward / sideways until close enough to make a run for it.
Posted by: Odie | July 23, 2009 2:56 PM
Ryan Mackey's "Inflationary Model of Conspiracy Theories" should predict what will happen as birfer claims are increasingly refuted.
The Inflationary Limit is reached when a CT has expanded to the point of requiring that every sentient being in the Universe except for the CT promoter be part of the conspiracy. The birfers will inevitably reach and surpass this limit without even noticing it.
Posted by: Ktesibios | July 23, 2009 3:03 PM
The important point here is not that these statements are made. The important point is that there are communities where every one of those statements is considered to be an article of faith and above reproach. So much so that any questioning or contradiction of them is evidence of your being a NWO, useful idiot, a sympathizer, or an actual agent in the grand plot to bring down Christian America and thwart the will of God. In other words your evil.
Posted by: Art | July 23, 2009 3:41 PM
...like a scene out of 'Idiocracy'.
Posted by: Blondin | July 23, 2009 3:45 PM
CHV @ 25 - you missed what I believe is the biggest driver of propaganda by far - conservative viral emails. I've received hundreds over the past couple of years and have yet to see even one that's honest. And yes, it appears the looniest social conservatives are close to retirement age or retired and I highly doubt many of this demographic actually get any national or international news from newspapers, instead they appear to rely on Fox News or their AM talk radio hosts for news.
Posted by: Michael Heath | July 23, 2009 3:51 PM
SLC: Maybe so, but at least he would have left the building an honorable man who stood up to bigots, liars and haters. And efen if that group of loonies had rioted, the rest of the BM would have been publicly put on notice that one Congresscritter isn't taking their shit anymore.
And what about security? Don't these meetings have bouncers? Someone needs to set the proper example, by treating these loonies like loonies, not like respectable citizens.
Posted by: Raging Bee | July 23, 2009 3:58 PM
Bee, I agree it would have been the honest honorable thing to do but I suspect he'd have left the building a severely battered man. If he was lucky.
Remember these are also the folks who believe everyone should carry a gun & enforce Jebus's laws.
Either way he'd have been finished as an electable Republican, the whacko fringe is their heart & spine - all others must defer to it.
Posted by: Rob Jase | July 23, 2009 4:13 PM
I have no sympathy for the guy. If you are going to stand there and let a bunch of idiots spout this stuff and you take it because you want to remain in office then you deserve this crap. I would have told them they were the stupidest people in America and if they expect me to represent their idiotic beliefs then they better find a new representative.
Posted by: Tom | July 23, 2009 4:14 PM
Michael Heath @33 - A good central source for conspiracy BS is Alex Jones. If it's not on Alex Jones sites, Prison Planet et al, there is likely to be a link to it there.
The septic tank of stupid that is that site is wide, long and deep. With powerful, brain damaging, stupid.
Posted by: Art | July 23, 2009 4:23 PM
Mr. Heath @ 33: Exactly, which is why O'Reilly's nightly TV ratings tend to be strong. He's got a core audience of retired conservatives who are very loyal in where they get their "news."
Posted by: CHV | July 23, 2009 4:45 PM
I don't know if it's the same thing, but I've seen a list circulating on the internet of scientists (and I use that term loosely) who deny climate change. I actually looked up a lot of the names and maybe 5% of them (again, I'm being generous) actually have a degree or experience in a relevant field. There is a actually a young Earth creationist on this list, and a Libertarian who basically claims climate change is false simply because he wants it to be Other scientists on this list include physicists, computer scientists, economists, electrical engineers, and mechanical engineers. I don't know if it's the same list, but just being a scientist does not automatically make a person qualified to deny climate change. On this topic, the opinion of a scientist in an irrelevant field is no more important than the opinion of any non-scientist.
Posted by: catgirl | July 23, 2009 4:54 PM
Art - you make a good point. If I could edit my post @ 33 I would describe viral emails as the most effective method I'm aware of that distributes conservative propaganda. Some of those viral emails were created by scratch where some caught on and spread promiscously, while others link to websites who create or distribute propaganda like the sites you mention.
Yesterday I received two viral emails. One inferred that the Democrats just minted a coin without stamping "In God we Trust" on this coin and this is a sign that "it's already started!" (The no-God claim is not true by the way, the phrase is on the edge and was approved by a Republican majority Congress. The "it's already started" is the fear that the non-white/commie/fascist/atheist/Muslims have initiated the take-over).
The other viral email was linked to a video of a Christian Arab American dressed as a Crusader who was walking into Muslim booths at the Dearborn, MI festival; when the security guards (who were brown skinned) tried to restore order a little too zealously, the Crusader started screaming his rights to speak were being violated. I assumed he was part of the group who used the TMLC to sue the city of Dearborn regarding their request for expanded access to the festival beyond what other groups requested. This email's intent was to show how anti-American the Muslim Arab Americans are when confronted with free speech and that they're not properly assimiliating because they're Muslims with brown skin. Watching the video critically with an undeluded mind makes one wonder how in the hell they ever derived that opinion; but those were the comments in the email thread accompanying the video.
Posted by: Michael Heath | July 23, 2009 4:58 PM
Raging Bee said (#8): "No, Castle did not have to just stand there and take it. He could have at least made an honest attempt to tell these people they were idiots."
Castle did say that Obama is a U.S. citizen (and was roundly booed for his trouble). You have to give him a bit of credit for that.
Posted by: Alan | July 23, 2009 5:12 PM
Just saw an interview with Chris Mathews interviewing a very dazed Gordon Liddy on his suspicions that Obama was actually born in Kenya.
Liddy's only piece of so-called evidence was from an alleged by Obama's step-grandmother (a relation I've never heard of) that she witnessed his birth in Africa. He also claimed that there is a difference between a "Certificate of Live Birth" and an actual birth certificate - something that doesn't jive with me.
Other than that, Liddy just stammered and mumbled during the interview in a way that makes me suspect he recently suffered a stroke.
Posted by: CHV | July 23, 2009 6:05 PM
Sorry, should have said "alleged deposition by Obama's step-grandmother" above.
Posted by: CHV | July 23, 2009 6:25 PM
I lived in Delaware for many years and have met Mike Castle several times (in Delaware it is not unusual to run into your Congressmen). He is unfailingly polite to everyone no matter how abusive they may be. He attempted to correct the woman about Obama's citizenship but was then overrun by the lunatics.
What is most important about the video is that it illustrates the depth and breadth of ignorance in our country. Folks get so blinded by anger over Obama's success they grab onto every crackpot rumor that floats by.
I am especially sorry for the impression this video gives the world about Delaware.
Posted by: Brent | July 23, 2009 6:37 PM
Brent:
Every state has its resident nutjobs creeping about. I promise not to hold the actions of these particular ones against Delaware.
Pinky swear : )
As for Mike Castle, I think he handled a bizarre situation about as well as anyone could have. So kudos to him.
Posted by: CHV | July 23, 2009 7:21 PM
"Wow, that lady is lucky to have a BC from the United States of America. Mine happens to be from the state of Pennsylvania. Mine also dosen't specifically say anything about citizenship on it, you have to refer back to the Constitution for that."
Mine is from the Commonwealth of Virginia and it lacks a great deal of what that idiot lady wants. For the record, mine has the following:
State File Number:
Name of Registrant:
Date of Birth:
Sex:
Place of Birth: [Merely a city is listed]
Maiden name of mother:
Age of Mother:
Mother's place of birth: [The answer is merely "Canada"]
Name of Father:
Age of Father:
Father's Place of Birth: [A state is listed]
Date record filed: [14 days after my birth]
Below it certifies that it is true and correct reproduction or abstract of the official record with a Date issued [February 25, 2008 -- prior to the new security regimes I was allowed to use a plastic card as a "birth certificate" that was made four and a half years after I was born. Yes the United States government allowed my to fly to Canada and back with a plastic card for a birth certificate prior to 9/11.]
That is the entirely of what my birth certificate lists about myself or my registration. No hospital or doctor is mentioned. You would not even know from it that I was born on a military base.
Posted by: a lurker | July 23, 2009 7:21 PM
First it's Sussex County and not Suffolk. Suffolk is in NY. Get your facts straight, pantywaist. I can see by your picture your popular with the ladies and on Thanksgiving. Always a great day for Butterballs.
Posted by: Bill Colley | July 23, 2009 8:32 PM
neokortex:
The "31,000 global warming skeptics" list is the Oregon Petition; more here.
Posted by: PI | July 23, 2009 9:12 PM
Last month I attended a town hall meeting to see my congressman, a D. I didn't have anything I wanted to ask, but I wanted to be there just in case the RW crazies tried to swamp the place. And they did. Apparently they were called out by some email that many were carrying.
No birther blather. Mostly they were carrying on about the hoax that is global warming. One guy even brought along one of those "31,000" scientists and pointed to him while declaring, "You say you talk to scientists, but you haven't talked to him, have you?!?"
They were loud, belligerent and rude. They shouted out questions and tried to shout down other attendees who were trying to ask questions. No wonder my rep doesn't have very many of these event, although he did handle himself very well.
Posted by: Gerry L | July 23, 2009 11:20 PM
Last week many americans I know didn't know what a birfer was. Thanks to this, know they do and can now enjoy the laughs w/ the rest of us.
Posted by: tincture | July 24, 2009 12:11 AM
Well, the GOP played that "Obama isn't American" lie during the campaigns knowing full well it'll never get by anyone with two braincells to rub together. Now there are morons out there who won't stop squawking and parroting the lie. I guess Lincoln's party has decided that it's fine to fool just enough people most of the time and it was a bit of bad luck that they couldn't fool enough people at the last election.
Posted by: MadScientist | July 24, 2009 9:04 AM
The Inflationary Limit is reached when a CT has expanded to the point of requiring that every sentient being in the Universe except for the CT promoter be part of the conspiracy. The birfers will inevitably reach and surpass this limit without even noticing it.
Making a prediction after it's come true: BORING. I've already seen at least one birfer saying the Republican Party were part of the coverup. ((*I kid you not.*))
Posted by: Raging Bee | July 24, 2009 9:26 AM
Maybe we should just do our own version of "Project Steve". How many scientists named Dave believe in anthrogenic global warming?
Posted by: Gray Falcon | July 24, 2009 9:28 AM
Raging Bee stated:
Way more than one claimed this. In fact this birther thing started with conservatives going after McCain being born in Panama in hopes of nominating an authentic social conservative. They then began leveraging the efforts of Hillary Clinton's more radical followers who were going after Obama's birth location. This whole event can be better explained as a populist movement of social conservatives where the Republican party has been their home for the most part since the advent of Reagan Democrats.
The Republicans now have a tiger by the tail, how big or ferocious the tiger will get is unknown, but I think its old, crotchety, and harmless as a whole. But it only takes a handful of crazies to do something really radical, so we should be concerned not so much electorally or from a policy perspective, but instead regarding the safety of our president.
Posted by: Michael Heath | July 24, 2009 9:48 AM
"Personal data, data"- "It was cold yesterday. SQUARE THAT WITH GLOBAL WARMING!"
On an unrelated note, does anyone know where the hell the right wing canard that "Abortions contain dead babies" got started?
Posted by: Awesome McCool | July 24, 2009 11:58 AM
In my last post, I meant "vaccines" not "abortions." There! Now I don't sound quite as silly!
Posted by: Awesome McCool | July 24, 2009 12:01 PM
On July 24, 2009 11:58 AM, Awesome McCool posted:
On an unrelated note, does anyone know where the hell the right wing canard that "Vaccines contain dead babies" got started?
Can anyone explain ANY right wing canard?
Then again, at this point, "canard" is kind of redundant.
Posted by: Blue Nine | July 24, 2009 6:10 PM
I can help here. To quote a small part of a recent post by Orac at Respectful Insolence.
"The viral stocks used to make some vaccines are grown in human cells. These cells were derived from aborted fetuses back in the 1960s and 1970s and have been propagated in cell culture continuously ever since. It's a huge difference between the famous lie of the anti-vaccine movement, parroted by Jenny McCarthy, that there are "aborted fetal parts" in vaccines."
Posted by: Ciaphas | July 24, 2009 7:07 PM
#46 A Lurker
Before 9/11, my whole family moved to the US from Canada on mu husband's work visa.We didn't need passports to immigrate.
BUT... our state required one to get our driver's licenses. We had to go to the US Consulate to get an affidavit verifying our id, as Canada has very stringent passport requirements. Gaahhhhh !
Posted by: Hypatia's Daughter | July 25, 2009 9:00 PM
I don't think that the Repugs have a great deal of respect for the intelligence of their followers - in fact they count on their lack of intelligence.
The clever game has been to pick up a "rumor", say, that Hillary barbeques babies, from a RW fringe blog. Then repeatedly report it, with wide-eyed innocence, as a "rumor", then discuss it on RW talk shows, until the regular news outlets are forced to cover it as well.
They know that most of their listeners will pick it up as fact, no matter how much evidence arises to prove it wrong.
They are counting on the reality that once the info is in their listeners brains, NOTHING will ever dislodge or replace it.
Once upon a time, credible news outlets would check out a rumor and not report it if it was bunkum. Those days are long gone.
Posted by: Hypatia's Daughter | July 25, 2009 9:13 PM