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brayton_headshot_wre_1443.jpg Ed Brayton is a journalist, commentator and speaker. He is the co-founder and president of Michigan Citizens for Science and co-founder of The Panda's Thumb. He has written for such publications as The Bard, Skeptic and Reports of the National Center for Science Education, spoken in front of many organizations and conferences, and appeared on nationally syndicated radio shows and on C-SPAN. Ed is also a Fellow with the Center for Independent Media and the host of Declaring Independence, a one hour weekly political talk show on WPRR in Grand Rapids, Michigan.(static)

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« Epstein Reviews Bork | Main | Feinstein: Cheney Ordered CIA to Lie »

See, Gays Can Change!

Posted on: July 15, 2009 9:09 AM, by Ed Brayton

It's the same old story. Boy meets boy, boy falls in love. Girl comes along, tempting one of the boys with her wiles and proving that gays can change:

The San Francisco Zoo's popular same-sex penguin couple has broken up.

Male Magellan penguins Harry and Pepper have been together since 2003. The pair nested together and even incubated an egg laid by another penguin in 2008, but their relationship hit the rocks earlier this year when a female penguin, Linda, befriended Harry after her long-time companion died.

This did not go over well with Pepper, who became violent. The three penguins were separated for some time following the fight.

And that was the end of that:

"They have been doing okay since," said Zookeeper Jennifer Katz. "They have been getting along okay. But Pepper is by himself now, so we are keeping an eye on the three of them."

On Friday they appeared to be back on good terms, as they were re-introduced back into their enclosure.

Zookeepers say Harry and Linda are happy and were able to successfully nest this year.

There you have it. Proof that gays can change if they only get a good woman. No word on whether Harry underwent gay reversion therapy or went to an ex-gay bootcamp.

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Comments

1

all he needed was the Right Woman!

Posted by: llewelly | July 15, 2009 9:41 AM

2

They have ex-gay bootcamps? But isn't that how it all got started? What's next, ex-gay galley slave events and prison adventures?

Anyway, it's safe to assume Linda is a cute little bit of tail.

Posted by: kehrsam | July 15, 2009 9:42 AM

3

It's fairly common for sexuality to change in humans too. I'd be willing to bet that just about everyone here has personally experienced it, at the very least when one goes from an asexual child to a sexually aware adolescent. Ah, that magical time when many people go from boys/girls are icky to boys/girls are icky yet also strangely fascinating.

But even later in life shifts are not uncommon. Hetero, homo, bi, we can shift from one to another. But that's not at all the same as the idea that we can consciously influence it. In fact the preponderance of evidence indicates that it's harmful to try.

I liken it to hair color. When I was a child I was very blond. As I hit my teens it darkened to a mousy brown. Now gray is creeping in. It changes, but I cannot control it. The best I can do is cover it with dye. I can create the outward appearance of a color of my choosing. But the actual color doesn't change and I would damage my hair in the process.

Posted by: Abby Normal | July 15, 2009 9:55 AM

4

Pray for poor Pepper to find a hot chick next!

Posted by: Pierce R. Butler | July 15, 2009 9:58 AM

5

This is the soundtrack:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KAXvTvO0TI
Jet Boy, Jet Girl, Elton Motello.

Posted by: Guido | July 15, 2009 10:01 AM

6

I'm frankly surprised the RR hasn't jumped all over this case as "proof" of their arguments concerning sexuality. Or have I spoken too late?

Posted by: Sadie Morrison | July 15, 2009 10:19 AM

7

This doesn't mean that gays can change. It clearly means that Harry is bisexual.

Posted by: catgirl | July 15, 2009 10:23 AM

8

I agree with cat, bisexual Harry for sure. Now if we can just get a three way going the RR will have the place shut down!

Posted by: MikeMa | July 15, 2009 10:38 AM

9

Doesn't this just mean Harry is bi?

Posted by: chad the impaler | July 15, 2009 10:43 AM

10

-Pray for poor Pepper to find a hot chick next!-

IF thats what he wants.

Them forming a threesome would be pretty funny though. Either that or Will and Grace with Penguins.

Posted by: Richard Eis | July 15, 2009 11:00 AM

11

Catgirl beat me to it.

Thw whole "sexual transformation" thing Abby refers to is very distant for me. I don't recall ever having an "icky girls" phase. It was "How you doin'?" from day one of my memories.

My son appears to be the same way at 5. Heck, he even has a little geek chick girlfriend. Where were the nerdy girls when I was his age, huh?

Posted by: Ranson | July 15, 2009 11:04 AM

12

so it was all about "opportunity sex" and once Harry had a chance for some hot girl action, he dropped his buddy cold.

Pepper, OTOH, seemed more committed to a relationship. I guess Harry was the "guy" in this one and "strayed" as soon as he had the chance.

Seems common amoung vertebrates. Wonder if worms and squid do the same thing?

Posted by: Kevin (NYC) | July 15, 2009 11:19 AM

13

I'm frankly surprised the RR hasn't jumped all over this case as "proof" of their arguments concerning sexuality. Or have I spoken too late?

The RR would have to admit that homosexuality is natural and not a "choice" for them to admit that animals can be homosexual and then they could do this.

I think it would be the ideological equivalent of letting someone kick you in the groin twice so you can give them a "beep" on the nose in return.

Posted by: dogmeatIB | July 15, 2009 11:46 AM

14

Kevin (NYC) - Nematodes are hermaphrodites. For them 'go fuck yourself' isn't an insult, just a way of life. - DJ

Posted by: DingoJack | July 15, 2009 11:51 AM

15

If they had been a straight couple, the fundies would rant about how a happy home was broken up by a homewrecking tramp and wail about the effect on the children. Since it was a gay couple, everything is fine. If they had been human, Pepper would have taken Harry for everything he's got in court. As it is, all he can use is his beak.

Posted by: Romeo Vitelli | July 15, 2009 12:15 PM

16
Ah, that magical time when many people go from boys/girls are icky to boys/girls are icky yet also strangely fascinating.
Where does that "icky" reaction come from? As far as I know, you don't see it in other species. Is it completely due to our over-the-top prudishness?

Posted by: Taz | July 15, 2009 12:19 PM

17

Perhaps if we kept gay couples in small cages, under observation by crowds of tourists, and then introduced girls, we could change them. Unfortunately we don't know if this works in their natural habitat, either with guys or penquins.

Posted by: Ann Klein | July 15, 2009 12:32 PM

18
Where does that "icky" reaction come from? As far as I know, you don't see it in other species. Is it completely due to our over-the-top prudishness?

Well, obviously it comes from the fact that boys are icky, and Mother Nature would've quickly had an extinct species on her hands if not for installing a sex drive at puberty!

Posted by: Gretchen | July 15, 2009 12:45 PM

19

I don't want to get too hung up on that bit about the "ick" factor. It was just a throwaway line I'd hoped readers could connect with. The idea was to illustrate that most people go through a sexual awakening. Whether you personally thought of one group or the other as icky is probably irrelivent. (Note that even in the throwaway line the ick factor remained.) The important thing was that most people go through a change in sexuality, from asexual to sexual. Likewise, it's not uncommon for peoples sexual preferences to change over time later in life as well. But it's no more controllable than was your earlier transformation.

Posted by: Abby Normal | July 15, 2009 12:57 PM

20

I heard that Pepper has been drinking heavily since the break up. Such a shame.

Posted by: Dr X | July 15, 2009 1:00 PM

21

Maybe Pepper needs to go to college and get his Ph.D.

Posted by: Benjamin Geiger | July 15, 2009 1:05 PM

22

Richard Eis @ # 10: IF thats what he wants.

Since when has praying about somebody else's sexuality ever been concerned with what the object of the prayer wants?

Posted by: Pierce R. Butler | July 15, 2009 1:35 PM

23

I asked the question about the "ick" factor because it does exist, and I think it's interesting. I don't believe it's normal, so to speak. I think it's instilled in children by their parents. Left to their own devices, pre-pubescent kids wouldn't think much about gender differences, beyond some natural curiosity. I wonder how many problems that early gender antagonism causes?

Posted by: Taz | July 15, 2009 2:19 PM

24
Thw whole "sexual transformation" thing Abby refers to is very distant for me. I don't recall ever having an "icky girls" phase. It was "How you doin'?" from day one of my memories.

Same here, though I occasionally played along. I wonder how much of this is an artifical phenomenon created by social pressures...but then I wonder where those originated from.

Posted by: Azkyroth | July 15, 2009 3:12 PM

25
I wonder how much of this is an artifical phenomenon created by social pressures
I also don't remember feeling any actual antipathy related to the opposite sex - just a lot of "cootie" jokes.

Posted by: Taz | July 15, 2009 3:32 PM

26

I remember, as a kindergartner, I got into a big fight with my closest little boy friend over which gender was the more utterly revolting. It got so heated that I actually retched after contemptuously choking out the word "boys." That was largely the extent of my anti-male childhood prejudices, though.

Posted by: Sadie Morrison | July 15, 2009 3:36 PM

27

@Taz

I agree it is an interesting question on it's own. My personal opinion is that the stereotypical ick reaction is driven by a combination of biological and social factors. (Which I grant is a next to useless statement.) Some will see the differences between boys and girls and, as you say, become curious. Others my not care at all. While others may be confused, fearful, or angry.

Different people have different reactions. Your own preference may be toward curiosity. But I think it would be a mistake to label any of these other reactions as abnormal.

There's also a group dynamic aspect, which I think blurs the line between biological and social. We seem to have a biological drive to from groups. But the behavior of the group is by definition social. The back edge to otherwise useful categories I guess.

In many ways the division between boys and girls is like the other factors that divide people into groups. Athletic kids tend to hang out with other athletic kids. Brainy kids tend to gravitate toward other brainy kids. Nice kids usually have nice friends and bullies often roam in packs. Gender is something that naturally divides people into two approximately equal sized groups. In those situations competition, and the baggage that goes with it, is as natural as breathing.

Children can be open, curious, loving, and giving. But they can also be cruel, vindictive, petty, and selfish. What's more a child can move through all those qualities at a pace we adults, with our more settled personalities, can hardly seem to comprehend.

I think as adults we have a tendency to see kids as innocents and ascribe only the positive qualities to their nature, while the negative qualities are seen as resulting from something outside the child, a bad experience, mistreatment, or social pressure. I would disagree. I think that's wishful thinking, a way of reassuring ourselves that our true, unspoiled self is good. In reality I say we are equal parts light and darkness from the moment our brain gives us a concept of self.

What do you think? Does this resonate or am I way off base?

Posted by: Abby Normal | July 15, 2009 4:00 PM

28

I wonder how much of this is an artifical phenomenon created by social pressures...but then I wonder where those originated from.

Hard to say, all I know is that I lost a couple friends after that fateful sixth birthday party, when my male friends were dismayed to discover that one of my best friends was a girl. If any of my other male buddies were friendly with those sorts of people, they sure as heck kept it to themselves.

I suspect that my introverted little self was probably glad - I had too many friends at that point anyways. Too many playdates would interfere with the quality times where book met comfy branches in a good tree and made DuWayne very happy...

Posted by: DuWayne | July 15, 2009 4:10 PM

29
But I think it would be a mistake to label any of these other reactions as abnormal.
"Abnormal" was a poor choice of word. I was referring to a quirk of the entire species, rather than any individual.

Posted by: Taz | July 15, 2009 4:45 PM

30

Dogmeat : The RR wouldn't have to admit to anything! They moved those poor penguins to the San Francisco zoo, right? That's obviously what made them ho******ual!!!!!1!

Posted by: Coragyps | July 15, 2009 5:47 PM

31

"I'm frankly surprised the RR hasn't jumped all over this case as "proof" of their arguments concerning sexuality. Or have I spoken too late?"

Sorry, Sadie, you've spoken too late. Read, if you dare, this filth at Porno Pete's site: http://americansfortruth.com/news/gay-penguin-flies-straight.html

Posted by: Buffy | July 15, 2009 7:22 PM

32

Yes, and some heterosexuals can reform, too, and find true love with a same-sex partner.

Konrad Lorenz said that since geese were so similar, sometimes two males fell in love, but it appeared that each thought the other was a reluctant female. Something similar may have happened with the penguins.

Posted by: Monado | July 15, 2009 10:07 PM

33

DuWayne - Interesting. As adults, probably a similar result would have been achieved if you'd admitted to loving another man. Those not too friendly toward you would run a mile, those that were friendly enough to stay wouldn't advertise that one of the 'boys' was into boys. Perhaps the RR's 'ick factor' is the result of a childhood playground trauma. :)
Monado - See - this problem wouldn't have occurred in Eclectus Parrots (Eclectus roratus). It's all those damned tuxedos! Quick Jeeves, break out the rainbow spray-paints. :D -DJ

Posted by: DingoJack | July 16, 2009 1:41 AM

34
See, Gays Can Change!

I would hope so - those fabulous outfits need laundering occasionally, after all. :P

Posted by: Azkyroth | July 16, 2009 2:06 AM

35

Finally 100% scientific undeniable proof that being gay is a choice and icky gays only choose to be the way they are because they hate god!

Posted by: tincture | July 16, 2009 2:33 AM

36

Poor Pepper must be feeling betrayed to find out his buddy was one of 'them'. This is strangely reminiscent of guys having gender changes and leaving their wives and children for another guy.

Posted by: MadScientist | July 16, 2009 7:40 AM

37

Perhaps he is bi?

Anyway, whether or not it is a choice (it's not) doesn't matter. There's nothing wrong with it either way.

Posted by: Awesome | July 16, 2009 8:44 AM

38

Then it seems to me that the best way to combat evil gays is to clone Angelina Jolie so we can all have a copy. I'm not gay but I still need my personal Jolie just to be safe you understand.

Yeah. Gays are evil. Now give me my personal Jolie. God bless science.

Posted by: ppnl | July 16, 2009 9:47 AM

39

ppm - What a absolutely faabuuloous idea! OH NO!!
Nurse! Get me that fat-assed, collagen-lipped alleged 'actorine' clone, STAT! - :) DJ

Posted by: DingoJack | July 16, 2009 10:08 AM

40

Did it ever occur to anyone that animals can have a sexuality spectrum as well? Harry is an example of an animal with a flexible sexuality (evolutionarily beneficial; he had a partner within Pepper whom he could rely on until he moved on to someone who could pass on his genes). Harry? Totally "bisexual". Poor Pepper...

Posted by: asdews | July 18, 2009 6:31 PM

41

"Perhaps if we kept gay couples in small cages, under observation by crowds of tourists, and then introduced girls, we could change them. Unfortunately we don't know if this works in their natural habitat, either with guys or penquins."
Konrad Lorenz observed similar behavior in his geese, iirc, so it might be fairly widespread (at least in birds)...

Posted by: Tiktaalik | July 18, 2009 8:16 PM

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